Mandi Rivieccio: Hello, everybody. Welcome to our September members-only PlatformUniversity live Q&A. My name is Mandi Rivieccio. I am the senior content creator withMichael Hyatt & Company, and I will be your moderator today. And, of course, we haveMichael Hyatt here on the line with us. Welcome, Michael.

Michael Hyatt: Hey, Mandi. Good to see you.

Mandi: It’s good to see you too. How are you?

Michael: I’m doing great. I’m just enjoying this Nashville weather.

Mandi: Yes, it has been gorgeous lately. Well, Michael, we’re so glad to have you here. Iwas wondering if you could introduce everyone to our special guest for today.

Michael: Yeah, I’d be thrilled to do that. I’m excited to have here with me one of myreally good friends and a fellow Nashvillian, Rory Vaden. Rory, as you know, did ourMaster Class this month and did an unbelievable job on the topic of procrastination anda few other things related to productivity.

In case you don’t know him, he’s an action catalyst (I love that phrase) and the author ofthe New York Times best-seller Take the Stairs. His insights on increased productivity havemade him a highly sought-after speaker and consultant. Rory, we’re thrilled that you’rehere. Thanks for joining us.

Rory Vaden: Thanks, Michael. It’s my pleasure.

Mandi: Welcome to both of you. We cannot wait to dig in and hear from you guys.We’re so excited to have you here. As Michael mentioned, there has been so muchexcitement and enthusiasm around this Master Class you did with us, Rory, so I knowour members have tons of questions. I can’t wait to hear more from you on this subject.So welcome, guys.

Michael: Thanks.

Mandi: Of course I’d like to welcome all of you guys, our incredible members who arelistening in to this call. You have submitted some truly fantastic questions and we

cannot wait to dig in and answer those. Whether you guys are joining us live on the lineor you’re listening to the recording of this Q&A at a later time, we just want to thankyou for spending some time with us.

Now following up on that incredible Master Class we did with Rory, today’s Q&A isgoing to be all about practical strategies to avoid unhealthy procrastination. That’s aweird distinction for some of us, because, for a lot of us, procrastination is somethingthat always has a negative connotation, but you’ll find out today that that doesn’tnecessarily have to be the case.

In fact, there are some types of procrastination that are not only healthy; they aredownright helpful. So today, Rory and Michael are going to help you guys differentiatebetween the two, and they’re also going to lay out some simple tactics you can use tokick unproductive procrastination to the curb. We cannot wait to start answering thosequestions.

Before we do, just a few important details to cover. For those of you who are joining uslive, there are two ways you can submit a question during this session. First off, here inGoToWebinar you can simply type your question in the chat box shown to submit it.Our amazing team is helping us behind the scenes, and we’re going to be scanning forquestions. So go ahead and start sending those questions in now, and we will get to asmany as we possibly can.

You guys can also submit a question on Twitter. Just tweet your question out with#platformu. Again, our team will be looking for those, and we will answer a bunch fromTwitter as well. By the way, that doesn’t just apply to questions. If you hear anyinteresting quotes or ideas during this session that you want to share, please feel free.We would absolutely love that. Just include #platformu so we can find all of yourcomments and engage with you there.

If you’d like to refer to Michael, his Twitter username is @MichaelHyatt, Rory is@rory_vaden, and I’m @mandi_riv. You can also find us at @platformU if you’d like tostay connected with Platform University. Again, we’re going to answer as manyquestions as we possibly can during this live Q&A, so start submitting them as youthink of them. All right, guys. I think that’s all of the prep work. Are you guys ready todive in?

Michael: Yes.

Rory: Let’s do it.

Mandi: Fantastic. Here we go with a question from Rick in Virginia. Rick asked, “Whatis the difference between healthy and unhealthy procrastination?” Michael, do you wantto lead us off on this one?

Michael: Sure. I think Rory and I agree on this. I think actually procrastination can be avery helpful tool. Rory has written an entire book on this. From my perspective, if it’sintentional and designed to get things out of your field of view so you can focus onwhat’s really important now, it can be very helpful.

You may have a lot of important things to do, but you probably don’t have a lot ofimportant things that have to be done now. Unfortunately, if you put those on a listthat’s right in front of your face, it’s easy to get overwhelmed. So I like to get those out ofmy view so I can focus on what’s important now.

Mandi: Fantastic. Rory, anything to add there?

Rory: I think Michael hit on the distinction between positive and negativeprocrastination. There’s a big difference in waiting to do something we know we shouldbe doing that we don’t feel like doing versus waiting because we’re deciding that now isnot the right time.

I think what Michael just described is waiting to do something because we’re decidingintentionally that now is not the right time, and I think that is purposefulprocrastination. That’s procrastinating on purpose, or what we would call POP for short.It’s intentionally saying, “I don’t need to answer my email right now,” and that’s whatcreates the margin to focus on the things that are significant, the things that multiplytime.

That’s very different from inaction that results from indulgence, which might be morelike, “I know I should work out, but I don’t feel like it, so I’m not going to do it.” That isnegative procrastination. “I know I should start on my taxes, but I don’t want to,” or “I

know I need to make that sales call,” or “I know I need to have that difficultconversation, but I don’t feel like it, so I’m putting that off.”

That is the kind of procrastination that is the foundation of a mediocre life. That is classicprocrastination: consciously delaying something we know we really should be doing.That’s not what we want at all. Actually, positive procrastination… I would arguethere’s a synonym for that word.

It’s not really procrastination; it’s really patience. If you think about what’s the differencebetween waiting intentionally and just waiting… When you’re being strategic aboutsomething, you’re giving yourself permission that it doesn’t have to be done right thissecond. So I think an element of that is patience.

Michael: That’s good.

Mandi: That’s such great insight. A follow-up question here. I’m sure that neither one ofyou has ever done that second kind of procrastination, right? This is completely foreign.You never drag your feet. You never unintentionally procrastinate. I mean, we have alldone this, right?

Michael: Right.

Mandi: I think all of us have struggled with that. When you have that feeling and youknow, “Man, I’m getting behind on this project; I’m delaying,” are there any questionsyou ask yourself to really evaluate your motives and determine whether procrastinatingis the right move in that situation and, if it’s not, what is holding you back? Are thereany questions you ask yourself to help get clarity around that? Michael, how about you?

Michael: I just ask myself the question, “Would it be wise to start now?” Am I reallydelaying this because I don’t want to do it and it’s just difficult to tackle, or am I justprocrastinating for some other reason? What’s the wise thing? Would it be smart to domy taxes now rather than wait until the last minute? Probably. I will say this. We talk alot in our company about the Kolbe test, about how people initiate work. Rory, are youfamiliar with that?

Rory: I’ve heard of it, but I’m not very familiar.

Michael: We use it a lot in hiring, and it’s how people initiate work. I’m a Quick Start,which means I don’t like to plan before acting and I don’t like to do a lot of researchbefore acting. I just like to get in the game, sort of ready, aim, fire. So for me sometimesit does help if I wait until I’m up against a deadline. My Quick Start kicks in, and I domy best work up against a deadline.

I think that comes after decades of figuring out my work style and gaining confidence ofwhere I deliver the best value. So I think you have to know a little bit about yourself. I’mnot giving you permission to procrastinate in a negative way, but I’m just saying I thinkyou have to know how you function best and where you deliver your best work.

Mandi: That’s great insight. Rory, anything to add there?

Rory: The question I’m always trying to ask, which is one of the questions it seems likeis the overriding question that multipliers are asking always… It’s a perpetual questionthat we’re asking, which is, “Is what I am doing right now the best way to multiply mytime? Is what I am doing right now the next most significant activity?” In the bookProcrastinate on Purpose, we actually talk about the way you multiply time is by givingyourself permission to spend time on things today that give you more time tomorrow.

That’s a perpetual question that is going in my mind. “Is what I am doing right nowmultiplying my time?” The take action versus waiting is really an interesting discussion,because it’s like patience is a virtue, but action cures fear, and how do you reconcile thedichotomy of these two ideas?

One of the things to realize is that doing something early is not the same thing ascreating more time. Doing something early, even paying taxes, can be just takingsomething from tomorrow, bringing it into today, and then adding the risk of what wecall unexpected change cost.

Taxes are a really interesting example. I grew up in a lower middle-class family, and itwas always like, “Pay your taxes early, pay your taxes early.” Then over time I’ve beenaround wealthier and wealthier people, and wealthy people wait to the last possibleminute to pay their taxes, because they know they can use that money and invest itsomewhere else.

So sometimes doing things early can be an under-utilization of our greatest asset, whichis time. In the case of money, like with taxes, I could be using that money somewhereelse to grow interest and then pay my taxes at the last minute so I have maximized theasset of time.

It’s not always black and white. It’s this yin and yang, this back and forth. I thinkMichael hit the other side of it spot on, which is you have to really be honest withyourself and say, “Am I waiting because I’m being strategic or am I waiting because I’mtrying to avoid something that really needs to be done?”

Mandi: That’s a really great distinction, you guys. I know we’ve all been there. Weactually have so many great questions pouring in as we speak. I think this is really anarea where a lot of us struggle. First of all, for those of you who are joining us on the linetoday who maybe have really struggled with procrastination and it has held you upfrom doing some important things, I just want you to know you are not alone. There arehundreds of your fellow members who are also tuned in who are sharing the samestruggles with you. So we are excited to serve you guys today.

Rory: The people I love, Mandi, are the 41 or so people who joined 12 minutes after westarted. They were procrastinating on purpose on their arrival to the webinar onprocrastination. So, yes, we all struggle with it. I myself was a few minutes late to whenI was supposed to be here.

Mandi: Hey, life is busy, you guys. It’s a struggle for us all, but we have some tips foryou today, so no fear. I love this question that came in from Anne Denny, who’s live onthe line with us. Anne asked, “What tool do you recommend to selectively turn offnotifications? I don’t want to get distracted, but I do need to stay in tune selectively.” Doyou guys have any favorite tools for that? Michael, how about you? I see app whirringaround in your mind there.

Michael: Well, there are a couple of things. I consider this to be sort of training wheelsfor distractions. If you find yourself compulsively checking social media when youknow you shouldn’t be… Instead of doing that deep focused work, you jump out of thatmode of thinking to go check social media, because maybe it’s getting tough. One of thebest apps for that is one called Freedom. It’s available on every platform, includingAndroid, PC, Mac, iOS, everything.

Here’s the cool thing: you tell it what parts of the Internet you want to shut off. Forexample, as a writer, I need access to the Internet for research, but I don’t need to bedoing Twitter or Facebook, probably not YouTube. I don’t need email. I don’t needSlack. I can tell it to turn it off for a designated period of time, and it shuts it off on allmy devices, because I would be just clever enough to outsmart it. Like I’d turn it off onmy PC but I’ll just check Facebook on my phone. No, it turns it off everywhere.

The cool thing about it is the only way to defeat it is to completely reboot, and who hastime for that? It’s just enough to curb that compulsion to go check something youshouldn’t, and it’s a great way… Again, like I say, training wheels to curb that. Again,that’s called Freedom. I can’t remember the URL. Maybe somebody on my team can postthat inside the chat.

Mandi: I think it’s freedom.to, but I will let the team post an official link there in thechat. Rory, how about you? I know you have kind of a different stance when it comes toapps. What are your thoughts here?

Rory: I think Michael will go new school and I’ll go old school on everybody. I don’t likeapps pretty much at all. My favorite app is your brain. The value for some people isthere, and the one Michael described sounds great. My take on it would be you don’twant to rely on any app or piece of technology to control your focus. What you reallywant to develop is the sense of discipline to be in charge of your own life.

I am about personal discipline, and that is what I really want to challenge people. Eventhough we’re talking about the healthy procrastination and we’re talking about inactionthat results from indulgence is procrastination, but inaction that results from intention ispatience, that maybe there is some healthy procrastination, I don’t want to misrepresentmy message, because what I want you to do is err on the side of discipline for a while.Err on the side of action for a while.

Always live on the side of taking charge of your life and worry about healthyprocrastination later. Like what is that? Who cares about that? That’s like saying you’renot getting enough sugar in your diet. Well, yeah, I guess it’s possible that you could notbe getting enough sugar in your diet, but let’s not worry about that part. I’m probablygetting my carbs and sugar.

I’m just a big fan of the brain. It’s also probably an excuse. I’m just not that tech savvy,so I don’t take a lot of time to learn about apps. I think, ultimately, at the end of the day,do whatever works for you. If you have to hire somebody to come stand next to you andslap you in the face every time you’re checking email when you should be working on aproject, do that. Do whatever you have to do to create the margin to focus in your life.

One way or another, it’s your issue. Nothing externally is going to solve your problem.You have to solve your problem. You are in charge. That might mean you have to gofind an app and you have to use it, but you still have to have the discipline to use it.Don’t look externally for the solution; look internally for the solution, whether it’s anapp or getting someone to slap you in the face. That one is an interesting one. Maybe Ishould try that.

Mandi: That is an interesting one. You could market that. It could be a package. It couldbe like a consulting position, the face slapper, when you need it.

Rory: Just a little product. Yeah, I need a little product.

Mandi: That’s amazing.

Michael: That would be awesome.

Mandi: Along this line of tools for avoiding procrastination, one that I found reallyhelpful… I actually picked this tip up I think from Crystal Paine when she did a MasterClass with us. She said that when she really needs to focus on something, she sets atimer on her cell phone or sets up a timer on her desk and says, “Okay, I’m givingmyself 20 minutes to make as much headway as I can, and I’m not checking anythingelse, because I’m racing the clock for 20 minutes.”

That has been a really helpful thing for me, especially when I’m tackling a big dauntingproject, to just break it up into bite-size chunks and say, “Okay, maybe I can’t focus onthe entire project and get the whole thing complete in one sitting, but I’m going to sithere and focus for 30 minutes,” or whatever the case may be. So, Anne, I hope thosetools were helpful for you.

Guys, we’ve had a lot of questions coming in. Rory, you mentioned on lookinginternally for solutions, and we’ve had a lot of questions coming in about the internalcauses of procrastination, kind of where it stems from. We’re having a lot of people tellus that a lot of fear goes into procrastination, that they tend to drag their feet whenthey’re afraid of not knowing enough about the project. They’re afraid they’re not goingto succeed. They’re afraid of what the outcomes might be.

We had a great question from Elizabeth Ridgway who said, “Is there help throughPlatform U to set up a website? I have a blog rented in space but not being used. I’vebeen procrastinating getting my website started because of fear of the unknown. I don’tknow what it’s going to take. I’m a little bit nervous, so I’m dragging my feet.” So notjust in the specificity of a website that’s relevant to Elizabeth, but in general, when youfind yourself fearful of starting a project because you don’t know what it’s going toentail, what do you guys do to overcome that? Rory, how about you?

Rory: It’s actually pretty insightful to realize that the habit of procrastination isconnected to an internal issue. Psychologists say the number-one cause of allprocrastination is self-criticism, is thinking, “I won’t be good enough” or “It won’t workout.” That is where, again, a natural bias toward action really makes a difference. Actioncures fear, and I think the more we can boil things down to small steps…

If you’re afraid of something, it’s because it’s still too big, so one practical strategy…This is something Michael does really well in Platform U. It’s so spelled out for you. Itreally helps with that. I’ll let him talk about what you can do, but I know he has such astructured system for doing this. If you’re scared of it, then you’re thinking about it toobig still. You need to break it down to a smaller step and a smaller step and a smallerstep.

You keep breaking it down until the smallest step could just be to stand up out of mychair and go walk over to something, like, the smallest possible step to where it’s nolonger scary. I think that will really help in terms of a practical sense. The heart issue is alot of this is connected to our fear of what other people think about us. The moment youlet go of seeking your approval from other people is the moment that procrastinationstarts to lose grip on your life.

I think it’s a spiritual thing. I think the moment you find your true self-worth in God andthe fact that God created you and you’re his son or daughter… It’s funny, because evensuch a task thing, such a pragmatic thing like procrastination, it comes down to thisspiritual issue. Otherwise, you never feel like you’re good enough or you’re scared. Thata lot of times is rooted, I think, in where your self-worth comes from. Michael, what doyou think?

Michael: That’s great. Yeah, I would say that one of the most essential business skillsyou can develop is the ability to manage and overcome fear. The people who are moresuccessful than you are, who you perceive as more successful than you, they’re notsmarter than you. I guarantee you. They oftentimes don’t have more experience. They’renot younger than you or older than you. They basically just are willing to confront theirfear and to embrace it.

This is one of the things I teach in 5 Days to Your Best Year Ever. When you begin to moveout of your comfort zone… The reason you call it your comfort zone is because there’s nofear there. There’s no uncertainty. There’s no doubt. You get it. You’ve been there beforeand you’re comfortable in it. The moment you step into the discomfort zone is themoment you begin to feel fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Most people habitually shrink back and pull themselves back into the comfort zonewhen they feel those three emotions, but what I’ve found helpful is to completelyreframe that and tell myself a different story. When I feel those three emotions, I musthave just passed out of the comfort zone into the discomfort zone, and this is where allthe really important stuff is going to happen.

So that’s, for me, number one: to recognize that fear always comes with somethingyou’re about to do that’s really important, and that’s a good sign. Rather than shrinkingback from it, you want to lean into it, because most of the fear truly is inside our headand it dissipates once we begin to take action. I totally agree with what Rory said aboutbreaking it down to a manageable chunk.

We may want to talk about this later, Mandi, but one of the things I really disagree withis this idea of “do the most difficult thing first.” I know the intention of that is to stoppeople from procrastinating, but that would be like me walking into the gym this

morning (which I did), walking over to the bench press, and trying to lift 150 poundswithout warming up. It’s stupid. I think you have to get warmed up.

For example, I’ve written now eight books. If I used the “start with the most difficultthing” strategy, I would take the biggest, ugliest, hairiest chapter, the one I’m the leastconfident of writing, and I would try to do that first so I could get it behind me, and thenI would experience real momentum. The problem is… That’s why most people don’tfinish the books they start. They get stuck right there.

I ask, “What’s the easiest thing, the smallest bite I can take, so I can begin to buildconfidence and momentum?” For example, my last book, Living Forward, I did the entirefirst draft myself. Day one I set up the file system on my computer. You know, this iswhere the files are going to be stored. Then I set up a file for each one. Then the next dayI did the front matter, because that was super easy.

Then I did, “Okay, out of these 10 chapters I’m going to write, what’s the easiestchapter? Actually, chapter 3.” You can’t do this in fiction, but with nonfiction it doesn’thave to be written sequentially, usually. So I wrote that chapter, and then I wrote thenext easiest chapter, and I started to build up a head of steam. I saved the most difficultlast chapter for last. Then I said to myself, “The only thing standing between me andfinishing is this last chapter.” I literally saved it for the last two days of my sabbatical.

I also put myself a reward in there. I said, “I’m going to go fishing once I finish thischapter.” So I rolled up my sleeves and I said, “As soon as I get this done, I’ve finishedthe entire project.” And I did it. That’s how I’ve approached every book writingassignment and how I coach writers to do it. Get some momentum going. Break it down,like Rory was saying, to a small bite-size piece, knock it out, and start getting somemomentum, and you see this thing crumble and become more manageable.

Mandi: That’s so great, Michael. My gosh, you guys. There was so much insight packedinto that little segment of conversation I just want to tease out some of these takeaways,because they were truly incredible. Rory talked about the importance of finding yourself-worth within yourself and within who you are and not looking to the approval ofother people, and that that is a great source of fear for so many of us.

Michael talked about breaking projects down into bite-size pieces. In fact, both of yousaid that. You have to break it up into small manageable chunks, something you canstart with today. We also heard from Michael about starting with something easy to pickup some momentum. For those of you who are listening, there are some really practicalthings you can start doing today.

Guys, I have a question here from Jerry Jenkins in Colorado. I find this really interesting,because we serve so many creatives here at Platform University. Jerry said, “I have cometo see a certain amount of procrastination as helpful to the creative process, and Iactually find my subconscious working on my book projects during that time while I’mdelaying. Have you ever found this or any evidence to verify it? Because, for me, I findthat it cuts down that fretting over a delay factor.”

What do you guys think about that? Is there, when you’re working on somethingcreative, a certain extent to which delaying a little bit and letting those ideas simmer ishelpful? Michael, what do you think?

Michael: Totally. I need to point out that this is Jerry Jenkins who wrote the Left Behindseries. He’s a member of Platform University. He has actually written more books thananybody I know, well over 100 books. I don’t even know people who have read 100books. So he has written more than 100 books. He has no problem with procrastination.He has written the biggest selling series in the history of the world. So let’s start withthat. I pay very close attention to his methodology.

I totally agree with him. I call it “crockpotting” an idea. Like, I’m going to write a blogpost today, so I stuffed my brain full of the facts last night before I went to bed, because Iknew if I slept on that it would kind of begin to get warm and the juices would start…So today I’m ready to write. So, yes, I think it can be very helpful.

Mandi: That’s awesome. Rory, how about you? What do you think?

Rory: I agree with this, and in practice I do this a lot. For me, the way it happens a lot oftimes is a creative threshold. Like, I’m probably working on 12 books right now, andwhat happens is every time I have a thought related to one… Each book starts as just aWord document, and each is basically a parking lot for ideas for that book.

As I have a thought, I’m like, “Oh, that’s going to be great in my leadership book.” Imight not write that leadership book for 15 years, but I’m going to put that in theparking lot for the leadership book. I do the same thing with blog posts. I always writebased on things that are happening to me. I try to write to specific people in my life. Idon’t write at the world. I write to one person, as if I were talking to that one person.That was a turning point in my writing career.

So I let these ideas bake, and I kind of compile them. I have a list of blog ideas, and thenonce I have that idea two or three times, then it’s like, “Okay, now I’m going to writethat blog.” So I do do that. At the same time, there is an element of writing that I think isa discipline. Books are interesting, because there’s not necessarily a deadline. Once youget into working with publishing companies sometimes there is, but Jay Baer… Michael,you know Jay Baer, don’t you?

Michael: I do. Yep.

Rory: Jay is one of my buddies. I remember Jay said something to me… Until Jay saidthis I never actually became a blogger. He said, “Media companies don’t run oninspiration; they run on perspiration. They don’t run the evening news every time agood news story comes up. They run the evening news every night at 5:00, becausethat’s when the evening news is.”

Again, coming back to this dichotomy of action and patience, of creativity anddiscipline. I saw an interview… I’m pretty sure it was James Patterson one time talkingabout every day he gets up and he writes whether or not he feels like it. I think there’s alot of value creatively to letting ideas incubate and to not forcing them. A good exampleis people ask me, “When are you going to write your next book?” When it comes tobooks, I’ve always said, “I will write my next book when I have something worthwhileto say.”

I’ve had mentors say, “You need to write every three years or every two years. You needto be publishing. You have to stay out there.” My philosophy is going to just be onewhere it’s like, “I’ll write when I have something useful to say.” But when it comes tothe blogging side of my business, that has to be a routine and a schedule that we hit andwe just find a way. I struggle with the dichotomy, but for the most part I agree withJerry and Michael here.

Mandi: Fantastic stuff, guys. I love it. I love, Rory, that you mentioned that there’s a realdichotomy between patience and action going on. I think for the creative process that’sespecially true. In terms of bringing this down to a really practical level, would you guyssuggest scheduling two different sessions when you’re trying to be creative?

One where you initially sketch out some ideas, then walk away for a little while, let itmarinate for a couple of days, then come back and do the actual writing? Because atsome point you actually have to show up at the screen and do the writing. So is that theprocess you guys generally follow?

Michael: I don’t actually have a formalized process for the first part of that. My bestideas come to me when I’m the most relaxed. Like this morning, I was doing cardio atthe gym and I had a gazillion ideas, because I was running and I was listening to apodcast and at the same time I was having all these ideas.

I tend to either when I’m driving or when I’m in the shower or when I’m at the gym I’mdoing the first part of that, which is framing it up in my mind, but then when I sit downto write, which is usually daily, that’s when I’m going to actually exercise the disciplinepart of that and I’m going to take something I’ve been thinking about and reduce it towriting.

A lot of the crystallization of those ideas come to me as I’m writing. You’ve probablyexperienced this too, Rory. Sometimes when you’re speaking and you just go, “Whoa!Where did that come from?” I’d been sort of thinking about that, but I never had said itlike that before. It doesn’t happen that often, but it’s one of those moments where yousay, “I need to take notes on what I just said, because it came out of me for the firsttime.”

Mandi: Yes, definitely. Rory, how about you? What does your process look like there?

Rory: I’m the same thing. I don’t really have a way to sort of stimulate creativity. I thinkit comes, and I think the discipline of creativity is capturing it when it comes. It’s afunny thing about writing, because the way I write blogs… I publish three times a week.Monday and Friday are my blogs, and then every Wednesday the podcast comes out.

We have about 134 people on staff right now at Southwestern Consulting, and I’m alsodoing still about 65 keynotes every year, so I’m traveling a lot. Where I write almost allof my blog posts nowadays is during takeoff and landing on airplanes, because it’s themaximum use of that time when I’m not allowed to have my laptop open and I don’thave Internet access.

One of the things I’m always filtering against is, “What is the best use of the resourcesthat are available to me at any given moment?” It’s like I only listen to podcasts whenI’m walking through the airport, because it’s the best utilization of time that I couldn’tbe doing something else.

So I think creativity for me is capturing the idea as it happens, and then I come back to itlater at the most opportune time that has the least amount of opportunity cost that Icould be doing something else. I don’t know if that helps at all, but that’s kind of thecrazy process in my mind. But I’m like Michael. I just try to capture it as it comes. I don’tsit and like, “Okay, let’s put some Zenya on and some candles and let the creativityflow.” It doesn’t work for me like that.

Mandi: I love that. Man, great insight here, you guys. Even if you don’t have astructured process, the big idea here that you can apply to your individual situation is tojust create a way of harvesting and collecting ideas as they come to you, and then giveyourself a little time for those ideas to simmer, and you’ll be able to expound upon themso much easier when you actually sit down to write.

Rory: And I want to know what Jerry Jenkins does. How do we get Jerry Jenkins’process? I want his answer.

Mandi: You know what’s fascinating, Rory, is that Jerry is actually on the line with us,so, Jerry, thank you for sharing a little bit of what you do in your creative process andfor the great question. Jerry actually said earlier when we were talking about tools tocontrol distractions… He says, “It sounds like Rory just invented the ‘slap’ app.”

Rory: Call it Slap.

Michael: Slap.com.

Mandi: Perfect. Jerry, thank you so much. It has been such a helpful question. Now,Michael, we’re actually getting some follow-up questions…

Rory: I’m capturing the slap app as a moment of creativity to write a potential blog postlater on. From Jerry Jenkins, slap app.

Mandi: That is the process in action. It’s happening right now. You’re seeing it real time.That’s fantastic. Well, Michael, we’re actually getting some follow-up questions aboutwhat you said about goal setting and this idea of moving from the comfort zone into thediscomfort zone. You mentioned three negative emotions that tend to pop up, and wehave a few folks who missed that and are asking what those three negative emotionswere. Would you mind recapping that for us?

Michael: Yeah. Fear, uncertainty, and doubt: FUD. I didn’t invent that. Somebody elsecame up with it, but it’s a great way to remember it. Fear is that anxiety we have aboutthe future, a future state, a future consequence. Uncertainty is when we don’t really seethe path. This happens to me all the time. You know a goal is outside your comfort zonewhen you don’t know how to accomplish it.

If I’m going to do something I’ve never done before… Like, one of the things we want todo is take our products into corporate America in 2017. I have no idea how to do that.I’m uncertain about the path. Doubt is really more self-directed, in my experience. It’smore like, “I really wonder if I have what it takes. Maybe I’m not that good of a writer,”or “I’m not that good of a salesperson.” “I’m not that good on video.” There are a 1,001things that happen.

Again, I think those are markers that you’re in the right zone. If you’re there, you’re inthe discomfort zone. It doesn’t mean you should do it, but it’s an indication that at leastyou’re out of your comfort zone. Again, we all want to stay in the comfort zone becauseit’s comfortable, but if you really want to live a life of significance and a life that hasimpact and meaning, that’s going to all happen in the discomfort zone.

Mandi: Thank you for the recap, Michael. Guys, we’ve talked a lot about the sense offear, a lack of confidence that can cause procrastination, especially at the beginning of aproject, but something else we heard from our members is that they tend toprocrastinate when they have a lack of clarity. Kevin from Colorado said, “How do you

move forward when you’re unsure about which path to take? Can a lack of clarity causeprocrastination?” Rory, what do you think?

Rory: Can a lack of clarity cause procrastination? Sure. Although I think a lack of clarityis more… We talk about it in Take the Stairs, the three different types of procrastination.There’s classic procrastination, and then there’s creative avoidance, and then prioritydilution. I think a lack of clarity is more a form of creative avoidance, because if you’reunclear, then get clear. Spend the time to figure it out. Ask somebody. What’s this nextstep?

I one time heard Daymond John from Shark Tank speak. I remember he was telling hisstory about how they built FUBU and all this stuff. He shared a phrase that has alwaysstuck with me. He said, “Just take the next affordable step.” What is the next affordablestep? What is the next thing you could do?

I posted on Instagram about this this morning. Impossible becomes possible as youcreate a plan and move down the path. It starts as impossible. The first time I said, “I’mgoing to become a New York Times best-selling author,” it was so impossible. It was sofar beyond the universe, the galaxy, of what was comfortable or felt realistic, but itbecame possible as we started to create a plan and go, “Okay, what does that mean?”

Somebody told me, “Well, it means you have to sell something like 15,000 units over aweek and then have a couple weeks back-to-back of thousands of units.” I said, “Okay,well, it still seems pretty impossible, but now it’s a little bit more possible.” Then youdeconstruct that. “Okay, how would you sell 15,000 units in a week? What would thatlook like?” You start to answer that question.

The impossible becomes possible as you create a plan and start moving down the path.So if you don’t have clarity, then get clear. Either get clear on your goals, which Michaelhas one of the best systems in the world for that, or ask somebody else or just figure outwhat’s the next affordable step. Don’t be torn between these two paths. Just take a stepand then figure out. Don’t evaluate it. Just take a step and then see how it feels. That’sthe best way to learn: to take the stairs, move down the path.

Mandi: So great, Rory. I love it. Michael, anything to add there?

Michael: First of all, I agree with everything Rory said. I think sometimes people thinkclarity is the first and most important step. In my experience, it’s usually the third step.What you have to do is make a commitment to an outcome first. Forget about clarity.Forget about asking the question how you’re going to do it. The most importantquestion to ask is what you want to do. So that’s number one: get the commitment.

Secondly comes the courage. Now you have to act on that commitment. The best way toget clear is start moving toward the object you’re trying to see. If I can’t see that signthat’s down the street two blocks… If I just move toward it, it’s going to get clear.Sometimes you have to get in motion, as Rory was saying, and start moving toward theobject so you can get clear.

Then the third thing you get as a result of that is you do get the clarity, but usually itdoesn’t come before the commitment or the courage. You have to get yourself in motion,and that just takes the courage. I learned this from Dan Sullivan, who’s a mentor ofmine. Courage and confidence look exactly the same on the outside. You think, “Well,Rory is just so confident.”

It may be that he’s just acting with courage, which means it feels very different on theinside, like you’re scared to death, but he’s putting his body and himself through themotions of taking action. Confidence actually occurs as you do the commitment andthen you do the courage and then you do the clarity and then you get a new capabilityand then, ultimately, you’ll start to feel confident, so the next time you try that it doescome from confidence because you’ve done it before.

Mandi: That is so great. We got an interesting follow-up question from Julie in Utah.Julie pointed out that research is genuinely an important part of the process for a lot ofprojects you would undertake, but she kind of asked, “How do you avoid researchbecoming a fancy way to procrastinate?”

You get into that analysis paralysis place, where you’re constantly taking more andmore in and you’re justifying it as you’re acquiring the information you need to succeed.So are there any practical parameters you guys follow that help you to shift out ofresearch mode and shift into action mode? Michael, what do you usually do in that case?

Michael: I want to just quickly and briefly go back to the Kolbe test. I said I’m a QuickStart, but my second highest is Fact Finder, so I do like doing the research. This is why ateam is important. If you’re high on the Fact Finder scale, you like to do research. Mywife is the best researcher I know, but she could also get stuck there.

Where I tend to be a Quick Start and can be impulsive and she slows me down to makebetter decisions, I can keep her from procrastinating, because she would just keepresearching forever and be happy with it. So I think knowing that about yourself andintelligently bringing people onto your team who are different than you…

I think the entrepreneur’s first impulse is to try to hire people who are like them, andthat’s a recipe for disaster. One of the reasons we’ve been able to scale up as fast as wehave and grow the team to the size we have is because we’ve been very intentionalabout hiring people who are different and who will complement us so that we can all beoperating in our unique ability.

Mandi: Fantastic, Michael. I love that. Rory, how about you? Do you have anything toadd in terms of practical parameters to get yourself to stop researching and start doing?

Rory: I have an example of a mistake I made and a lesson I’ve learned. When I startedspeaking… I’m more of a writer and an entrepreneur now, but my initial dream was Iwanted to be a speaker. I did this Toastmasters World Championship of Public Speakingand all of these things. When I first became a speaker, I would speak on anything.People were like, “Hey, can you talk on this? Can you talk on that?” and I was like, “Yes.Yes. Yes. I’ll do some research and pull it together.”

When it came to marketing myself as a speaker, that portion of our business, there was alot of confusion in terms of, “What do I really do?” One of my mentors told me, “Rory,your problem is that you don’t know what the problem is.” I said, “Uh, I don’tunderstand.” He said, “You don’t have clarity about what problem you’re trying tosolve, so you’re just this random smattering of a bunch of ideas in no specific direction.”

He told me, “You’re just like a fortune cookie, leaving a bunch of random traces all overmy Facebook page.” He said, “You have to get clear on the problem you’re solving, andas you get clear on the problem you’re trying to solve, that will focus everything foryou.”

For me, Take the Stairs… That was a big moment, and that hook has really seemed… I’vegotten a lot of mileage out of that. It’s very memorable, but what came before Take theStairs was procrastination. The real turning point for our brand and our idea and ourexpertise was once we said, “Okay, procrastination is the problem we’re trying tosolve,” that focused everything.

Coming back to this research thing, before you do research it might help you to getreally clear on what question you are trying to answer or what problem you are trying tosolve, because then your research is focused in a specific direction. Sometimes it opensup other questions, but then you need to step back and say, “Okay, now I’m not trying toanswer this question; I’m trying to answer this one.” Figure out what problem to solve.That’ll help you be a great writer and a great speaker and a better researcher, I think.

Mandi: Man, fantastic insight, guys. Julie, I really hope that is helpful to you.

Rory: Michael, I bet at Thomas Nelson, as an editor… Because there’s no such thing asgood writers; there are only good editors. I bet you saw tons of book proposals that werejust clichés and platitudes and they probably were not focused because they didn’t haveclarity about what problem they would solve.

Michael: Yeah, totally. The more narrow people go and the more specific of a problemthey’re trying to solve, the easier it is to find an audience for it. I think the broader youare, the easier it is for people to blow you off, because there’s nothing that’s appropriateor helpful to their specific situation.

Mandi: Fantastic. Guys, I absolutely love that insight. There’s a very specific problemhere that I would love us to try to help solve. This one came from Rhea in London. Rheais speaking on behalf of all of us who have a little bit of a rebellious streak, just a littlebit. Rhea said, “Sometimes when I fight my procrastination it gets even stronger. I seemto be feeding my own rebellion here. What am I doing wrong?”

Have you guys ever had that experience, where you try to impose some discipline andthere’s just that little internal rebellious part of you that bucks against your efforts atimposing discipline? How do you handle that? Michael, what would you say there?

Michael: I’m trying to think when that really happens. Usually it happens for me whenI’m tired and I get unfocused. It’s like my body is saying, “Slow down here, buddy. Youneed some rest.” I talk a lot about this in my productivity course, as you know, Mandi,because you worked on it. We talk about that a lot in Lesson 3. It may be, in fact,something you need to pay attention to and just get some rest and get your focus back.

I would say second to that is that happens when I’m not really clear on my why. I’mfeeling like I ought to do it or it’s being externally imposed upon me, but if it’ssomething I really want to do… I love Andy Andrews’ definition of discipline. Rory,you’ve probably heard this before.

He says, “Can you make yourself do something you don’t want to do in order to get aresult you really want to get?” That’s kind of discipline to me. If I’m clear on the why,because I really want that result, then I can usually find the discipline to get into thegame and make major progress toward it. If I’m not clear on the why, I’ll rebel against it.I’ll sabotage myself.

Mandi: That’s great insight. Rory, what would you add there?

Rory: In my own life I’ve learned sometimes we let procrastination be more powerfulthan it deserves. In other words, I think we allow procrastination to become anemotional conversation. We allow ourselves to go, “Oh, do I feel like doing that? Am Inot going to feel like doing that?” We’re expending all this energy deciding whether ornot to do it instead of just doing it.

I think what you see in ultra-performers is that it’s not an emotional conversation; it’s amatter-of-fact conversation. People who exercise… I’ve had different seasons of my lifewith exercise, but right now I’m very much in maintenance mode. I work out everysingle day for about 15 minutes, but I never miss a day. It’s only 15 minutes, but I’m nottraining for a marathon. I’m not trying to lose weight. Just 15 minutes a day.

It’s just very matter-of-fact. It could be 11:30 at night and we’ll get home and I’m like,“Oh, I haven’t done my sit-ups yet,” so I’ll just knock them out. We give it too muchpower. We give procrastination too much credit. We allow it to be more than it really is.The Navy SEALs and people like that… When you get into their mentality it’s like, “No,no, it’s just part of the routine.”

There’s not a discussion point to have here. There is no conversation about whether ornot I’m going to work out today, because it’s Wednesday and I always work out onWednesday, or I haven’t worked out yet today, so that just is what’s going to happen.It’s not, “Do I feel like having dessert or not?” It’s, “Well, no, I’m not eating dessert rightnow.” It’s a simple matter-of-fact conversation. I think that helps people get to thatplace.

Mandi: Great insight, guys. I can’t believe it, but our time is almost gone. These callsalways go so fast, and there are always a million more things we want to discuss thanwe have time to get to. I want to ask a really important question that came in from Davein Ohio. We’ve all experienced the fallout that happens after we procrastinate. We’vetalked a lot about how to resist it, how to avoid it, how to overcome it, but once it hashappened there can be some consequences to it.

Dave said, “How do you move past the paralyzed [audio cuts off] you feel due toprocrastination?” So when you know you’ve been dragging your feet and that it hascaused a delay and that it has put off something important and you feel that sense ofguilt, how do you move past that and get back on the horse? Michael, do you have anyinsight to offer us there?

Michael: That’s an interesting question. I would think, first, own that you’veprocrastinated. Maybe you’ve missed a deadline. Just own it. Then for the sake of yourown reputation and for the sake of your own personal integrity… To me, that’s how it ison meeting deadlines or getting myself to do things I have committed to. It comes downto a matter of integrity, because I want my actions to line up with my word. That’s whatintegrity is all about.

I think you can ask forgiveness once, if it’s an important deadline, even if it’s just withyourself, but then you have to ask yourself the question, “Am I a professional? Am I aserious player here, or is this just a hobby?” If you’re serious about it, then I think youfigure out… By the way, even if it means getting counseling and getting to the root ofwhy you’re self-sabotaging or why you’re procrastinating at a pathological level. I reallybelieve in bringing in outside resources.

One of the things I was struggling with for a few years… I’ve been a runner for 11 years,but I sucked at strength training. I know that as you get older you need to do strength

training, and I wanted to do strength training, but every year I’d have it on my goalsand every year would come and go and I didn’t do any strength training. I kept running,but no strength training.

I was actually talking to Henry Cloud, who’s the author of the book Boundaries, who’s abrilliant psychologist and psychotherapist and all that. He said, “Look. This is reallysimple. Whenever you get stuck, bring in an outside resource.” I said, “Like what?” Hesaid, “Why don’t you hire a trainer?” I was like, “Duh.” Facepalm. “Yeah, why don’t Ihire a trainer?”

I do that to this day. I meet with Andrew on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, and he’smy strength coach. Just the fact that he’s going to be there… I’ve built in some moreleverage with myself, so I didn’t have another year that came and went where I didn’tdo strength training. So bring in an outside resource. That would be my counsel.

Mandi: Fantastic. Rory, what would you suggest in addition to that?

Rory: This one gets me a little fired up, because guilt is a tool of the Devil. I really thinkit is. Sort of the catchphrase from Take the Stairs I’m saying all the time is, “Success isnever owned; success is only rented, and the rent is due every day.” When we say that…We talk about it in terms of if you’re successful. There’s no reason to be complacent. Butit also works on the other side.

Who you were yesterday has nothing to do with who you have to be today.Procrastination is not an addiction. It’s not something that is a part of you. It exists inyour mind. It’s only even there, you only even know it because you allow it to exist inyour mind. You can just let it die. Whatever you did yesterday does not have to be whoyou are today. So don’t even bother carrying that from yesterday.

With guilt, just connecting at the spiritual level, there’s nothing to feel guilty for. Wemake sins. Those sins have been covered. They have been erased. It is gone. To feelguilty is to not accept the gift that is freely given to us. That’s what’s so amazing aboutJesus. I think even in your professional level, regardless of what your spiritual beliefsare, you can let go of that stuff from yesterday. It’s not connected.

Just because I drank alcohol yesterday doesn’t mean I have to drink it today. Justbecause I ate cookies yesterday doesn’t mean I have to eat cookies today. Just because Iyelled at my wife yesterday doesn’t mean I have to yell at her today. Just because Idelayed on pursuing some of my goals yesterday does not mean I have to be that persontoday. It has nothing to do with it.

My choices of today are completely independent and irrespective of who I wasyesterday. I don’t even need to think about that. All I have to focus on is what I can doright now. That person is gone. That person is dead. That person is in the past. In orderfor you to really move forward, I think if you can just accept that whatever you didn’tlike about yourself yesterday is dead and gone… Today is a new day, and you can startover.

Michael: Preach.

Mandi: Awesome stuff there. I love that, guys. This has been truly fantastic. I feel likeyou guys have served up so much practical wisdom that is so helpful. I thinkprocrastination is a huge struggle for so many of us, and it has been really interesting inthis call today to really get into the roots of where that comes from and those negativeemotions that tend to cause us to procrastinate and how we can get past those.

I want to thank you both for your insight. Rory, I want to thank you especially. I knowour members have absolutely loved hearing from you, and I know they would love tocontinue to stay connected with you from here, so what’s the best way for them to dothat?

Rory: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you, Mandi, and, Michael, thank you so much. On thatlast little note I said, just by virtue of you being a part of Platform University means youhave what you need to succeed. You’ve already taken action. You’re already in the rightplace. You’re already doing the right things. If you want to stay connected with me, Iwould love to.

I write three times a week at roryvadenblog.com. That is the place I would encourageyou to go. I do short articles Monday and Friday, and I do a free podcast everyWednesday. The way I think about it is just think of me as like your morning coffee. It’s

just for your procrastination. It’s the thing that gets you to take action every single day. Ithink accountability and reinforcement helps.

Of course it’s free to subscribe at roryvadenblog.com. I’d love to be incorporated as afew minutes of your morning routine every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday andhopefully help keep you on the path you want to be on. I just appreciate and am sohonored to be here, so thank you for having me.

Mandi: Fantastic, Rory. We could all use that jolt and that energy you offer, so that’sfantastic. If you guys want to stay connected with Rory, I just want to encourage you tohead on over to roryvadenblog.com. Our team is going to post that link in the chatwindow so you guys can grab it there.

Now before we wrap up (and we have just a moment or two left here), I do want tomake time for one of our members’ favorite segments on these calls, where Michael andRory will share a favorite book and/or app with us. Michael, what book and app havereally captured your attention this month?

Michael: The book I’m reading right now and I’m loving is a book called Meetings Suckby Cameron Herold. It’s a little bit of a head fake, because Cameron doesn’t believe thatmeetings have to suck. It’s just that how most of them experience them, they usually dosuck. He talks about how to make meetings not suck and why the right meetings canreally be terrific in your organization. So that’s good.

The app is really not an app but a hardware device that I got about a month ago andhave been using like crazy. It’s called the Mevo live event camera. It’s a great littlecamera we use with Facebook Live. Basically it’s a wide-angle thing. I could be sittinghere with my daughter behind me and we could be in two different chairs, and you canset up as many shots so it looks like a multi-camera shoot with one camera. It’s $400.That may be a lot for some people, but for what it does and if you’re serious aboutFacebook Live, it’s a fantastic tool.

Mandi: I love that, Michael. Rory, how about you? Do you have a favorite book to sharewith us this month?

Rory: I read a ton. A book that really impacted me, a very unexpected book in anunexpected way, is called The Phoenix Project. It’s like a story. It’s all about projectmanagement and moving projects through the queue and applying manufacturing toproductivity at the corporate level. It was a book that was different than I mightnormally read, and it was great. I really, really loved it, and we’re incorporating a lot ofthose things.

In terms of the app, you know, slap app. I’m not a huge app fan. If you haven’t donethis, though, one little thing you could do is take your email and your text messages, theicons on your home screen of your phone, and slide them over to one side. So even ifyou turn off your alerts, what I find is every time I turn my phone on I see the countergoes up. Move them over to one of the side windows so that when you check email ortext messages you’re deliberately going there to do that. You don’t get sucked into it.That would be the low-tech version, old-school, you know, slap app.

Mandi: Fantastic.

Michael: That’s great advice.

Mandi: We all need that slap app sometimes. It’s important. Well, guys, as we bring thiscall to a close, I just want you both to know how incredibly helpful it has been. We got agreat comment from a lady who’s on the line with us. She said, “Thank you so much. Ifeel pumped up, and I recognize that I was putting off writing a post for anotherorganization out of fear of how I will be received, so I’m going to shut this off and writeit now. Thanks for the inspiration.” It has really been a great call today, guys. Michael, aswe bring it to a close, do you have any final thoughts to share with us?

Michael: I think that procrastination is one of those things that is really important,because if you’re going to make headway personally or professionally and have a deepand meaningful life, it has to be something you have to engage with and learn toovercome. I would really encourage people to get Rory’s book about procrastination,because he has some great strategies and will help you understand it at a level that youprobably don’t understand it and realize that there are ways of effectively dealing withit and overcoming it.

Mandi: Awesome. Rory, what would you add?

Rory: I appreciate it so much. Michael, you know how much I respect you and yourwhole team. You guys do such wonderful work, and I’m so honored to be here. Kudosto all of you who are part of this. I would just say you multiply time by spending timeon things today that give you more time tomorrow.

So make sure you’re always running that litmus test of “Is what I’m doing really themost significant use of my time? Am I spending time on things today that give me moretime tomorrow?” No matter how successful you were yesterday or how much of afailure you might have been yesterday, it doesn’t matter, because today is a new day.Success is never owned; success is only rented, and the rent is due every day.

Mandi: Fantastic stuff. Thanks again to both of you. We have positive commentsliterally flooding in from our members who are on the line with us here about howhelpful your insight has been today. Michael and Rory, thank you both for spendingtime with us today. We really appreciate it.

Michael: Thank you, Mandi. Awesome job.

Rory: Thanks, Mandi.

Mandi: And, of course, I want to thank all of you guys, our amazing members, fortaking the time to join us here today. We know you guys are incredibly busy. We knowyour time is valuable, and we’re so grateful that you spent time with us today. We hopeit was helpful to you.

As we close, I hope you guys are leaving feeling a sense of clarity about what kinds ofprocrastination are helpful and what kinds are not, and I hope you’re leavingempowered with some practical strategies you can use to get those unhelpful kinds ofprocrastination out of the way and focus on what matters most.

The closing thought we really want to leave you guys with is that your dreams matter.Your projects, your priorities, these things you want to accomplish, your goals, matter.The world needs them. Your family needs them. The people you love need them. It is soworthwhile to put all of those negative emotions on the back burner, to power throughthat procrastination, and finally dig into those things you know will move the needleand make a difference in people’s lives.

It’s so worth it, and your whole Platform University family is here cheering you on. So Iwant to encourage all of you guys as we leave today to head on over tororyvadenblog.com to continue to stay connected with Rory. If you have any questionswe didn’t get to here on this call, I want to encourage you to take those over to thePlatform University forums.

There are literally thousands of other creatives and writers and platform builders whoare experiencing the exact same things you are, who are there to walk with you throughthese struggles, and help you win together. We look forward to continuing theconversation with each and every one of you there. Thank you, guys, so much.

Michael: Thanks, guys.