MAKUENI COUNTY ASSEMBLY...Hon. Janet Kitung’a: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this opportunity. I beg to move the following Motion. Aware THAT Chapter 4 of the Constitution of Kenya,

1. MAKUENI COUNTY ASSEMBLY DEBATES Wednesday, 18th

March, 2015

Disclaimer; The electronic version of the Makueni County Assembly Report is for information purposes only. A

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REPUBLIC OF KENYA

MAKUENI COUNTY ASSEMBLY

OFFICIAL REPORT

First County Assembly – Third Session

Wednesday 18th March, 2015

(The House met at 2.30 p.m)

[Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu) in the Chair]

PRAYERS

STATEMENTS

STATEMENT REQUEST ON – UNPAID WAGES TO CASUAL LABOURERS

CONTRACTED BY THE MAKUENI COUNTY GOVERNMENT

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Hon. Member for Wote Ward.

Hon. Member for Wote Ward (Sammy Maseka): Thank you Mr. Speaker for

this opportunity. I have stood on a request on Statement. Pursuant to the provisions

of Standing Order 41(2) (c), I rise to request for a Statement from the Leader of the

Majority Party concerning unpaid wages to casual laborers.

Mr. Speaker sir, Article 41 (1) of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 gives every person

the right to fair labour practices and Article 41 (2) (a) states that every worker has the

right to fair remuneration. Further, Section 17 (1) of the Employment Act, Cap. 226 of

2007 stipulates that an employer shall pay the entire amount of the wages earned by


March, 2015



or payable to an employee in respect of work done by the employee in pursuance of a

contract of service directly, in the currency of Kenya.

Mr. Speaker sir, The County Government of Makueni, through the Departments of

Lands & Urban Planning, Water, Irrigation Services & Environment and Health

Services, contracted laborers between December 2013 and April 2014 to clean

various markets in Wote town, Kilala, Nziu, Mumbuni and Kikumini trading centres.

The laborers worked but have not been paid their wages, accruing to Kshs.133, 465

and their supervisor has on many occasions forwarded their claims to the relevant

departments, but all in vain.

The following is a list of the laborers against their Identification Card numbers and

the amounts owed. I will just go through the names and amount per employee but I

will not mention the ID Cards because they are there and also again they have

appended their signatures.

Name Amount owed (Ksh.)

Peter Mwanthi 10,335

Stella Mutua 9,540

Mary Joel 9,540

Alphonce Kimilu 9,805

Dominic Kasimba 9,540

Patricia Munywoki 1,590

Daniel Munyao 9,540

Alex Mulwa 1,590

Jacob Wambua 9,805

Justus Mutisya 9,975

Kioko Mulinge 9,010

Regina Kimanthi 13,250

Martin Komu 11,660

Angeline Ngumbau 6,625


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Elizabeth Wambua 1,325

Kinyanzwii Mwinzi 1,325

Mr. Speaker sir, in the Statement, the Leader of the Majority Party should clarify on

the following:

1. Whether the office is aware that laborers were contracted to clean markets

in the mentioned town and trading centres and have not been paid their

dues up to date;

2. The reasons as to why the laborers have not been paid their dues up to date

despite the numerous claims forwarded to the relevant department by their

supervisor; and

3. The plans the County Government has put in place to ensure these laborers

are paid their dues.

Mr. Speaker that is the Statement.

To add on to that, when you go to Article 41 (2) (b), because those other parts have

been quoted when I was reading the Statement, it says to reasonable working

conditions. There are so many things the laborers are lacking. The laborers had

been contracted to clean up the Towns where you normally get contaminated

garbage and stagnant water that can actually cause diseases. It is the responsibility

of the employer to supply the laborers with apparatus to work with like gloves, gum

boots, masks and even milk for those cleaners who are cleaning the toilet that

usually use chemicals, which can actually cause disease to them. The milk is one way

to neutralize what could affect them when they are doing the work. Not to pay

them-which is their right-is an offence; for the Government to deny them what they

have been working for for quite a long time because when you look at it from

December 2013 up to date it is a long period without getting their salary even

though they left their jobs because they were stopped by the County Government

even without paying them. Once they started claiming, they were chased but they

could have chased them and paid them their dues; not to chase them and remain

with their dues. There are parents who have to pay school fees for their children and

other things. Others have rented houses in the towns and landlords are chasing

them away as we are speaking because they have no money to pay and they have

worked for their money. It is actually perturbing us as Members of the Assembly.

We all know what happened here. There is a lot of impunity in this County

Government without criticizing anybody because things have been sent to where

they are supposed to be and measures will be taken.


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Even though the Majority Leader will respond it is my humble request to say

anybody who is working in the County Government must be paid their dues so that

they may actually do what they are supposed to do with their money because it is

their money that they have worked for. To finalize, I do not know what these people

sweep because you normally see dust rising to the skies. It would have been better

for the County Government to tarmac some areas in most of the towns and

especially the big towns including this town where I am actually elected as their a

leader, Emali being another, not forgetting the small towns because people are

paying their taxes. Even small towns which are in bushes they must be considered as

far as projects are concerned because you cannot tell people to sweep dust every

other day. When the rains come what do they normally sweep yet there is a lot of

mud? Let the Government put its House in order and do what is supposed to be

done. Thank you.

Hon. Member for Mavindini Ward (Martin Mutuku): Information Mr.

Speaker.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Yes.

Hon. Member for Mavindini Ward (Martin Mutuku): Mr. Speaker I wish to

inform this House in regard to that Statement. The Assembly of Makueni is

different from the Assembly of the Senate and also the National Assembly because

the Majority Leader of this Assembly does not represent the Governor who comes

from the minority party. I want some clarification on whether the Statement can be

referred to the Majority Leader of this Assembly or the Minority Leader of this

Assembly because the leader of the governing party is the Minority Leader. Is it in

order for the Statement to be channeled to the Majority Leader or the Minority

Leader? Thank you, I stand to be corrected.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you. The Statement does not matter

in terms of where the Majority Leader comes from. Even if he comes from the

Government; the one you are referring to as a Government or not, that is the

responsibility of the Majority Leader to seek such Statements from the County

Secretary. It is his responsibility and it is even better if he is not coming from what

you are referring as the Governors side because that is more oversight. He will be

stronger but all in all it does not matter where he comes from. That is his duty as the

Leader of the majority party. If he was not able to do that now it goes to the

Minority in that order. The Majority Leader? Is he not there? I think the

Communication will be made. The Deputy Majority Leader.


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Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Benard Kiswii): Thank you Mr. Speaker sir.

The Majority Leader is not there but I will communicate with him so that he can

make a follow up and we have two weeks’ time for the response.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Okay thank you. Next is the Hon. Kitung’a.

MOTION

MOTION ON – ESTABLISHMENT OF A GENDER BASED VIOLENCE

RECOVERY CENTRE AT MAKUENI LEVEL 5 HOSPITAL

Hon. Janet Kitung’a: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this opportunity. I beg to move

the following Motion. Aware THAT Chapter 4 of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010

contains the Bill of Rights; aware that every person shall enjoy the rights and

fundamental freedoms in the Bill of Rights to the greatest extent consistent with

the nature of the right or fundamental freedom; further aware that gender based

violence is persistent and on the increase as attested to by occasional media reports;

noting that most gender based violence cases go unreported; concerned that this

violence causes great physical and psychosocial harm which requires urgent

intervention, this County Assembly urges the County Government of Makueni to

establish a Gender Based Violence Recovery Centre at Makueni Level 5 hospital that

will provide:

i. Management of injuries to survivors of gender-based violence in the County

as well as comprehensive medical services such as Post Exposure Prophylaxis

(PEP) to prevent HIV transmission, Emergency Contraceptive Pills (ECP),

forensic collection of physical evidence and samples, filling in of Post Rape

Care (PRC) and P3 forms;

ii. Psycho-social care such as trauma counseling to survivors and their families;

iii. Legal counseling and support such as referral to police and court

preparation;

iv. Referral for specialized services where necessary; and

v. Create awareness on the physical, social, and legal implications of gender-

based violence at the County level.

My understanding of Gender Based Violence (GBV) is any harmful act, whether it is

sexual, physical or psychosocial that is perpetrated against a person and is simply

based on differences between males and females. Gender based violence is a

violation of human rights. Article 28 of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 stipulates

that every person has inherent dignity and the right to have that dignity respected.


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Article 29 (c) stipulates that every person has the right to freedom and security of

the person, which includes the right not to be (c) subjected to any form of violence

from either public or private sources. Sexual violence is one of the most serious and

life threatening forms of gender based violence. From the information I have

accessed from Beijing Declaration and Platform of Action paragraph 112 it states

that; “Around the world, as many as one in every three women has been beaten,

coerced into sex or abused in some other way most often by someone she knows,

including her husband or another male family member. One woman in four has been

abused during pregnancy.”

In most situations, sexual violence will go unreported due to fear, shame and

powerlessness, lack of support or unreliability of public services. Forms of sexual

gender based violence include sexual, physical and emotional violence, as well as

harmful traditional practices such as early forced marriage and female genital

mutilation. Women‘s forced subordinate status which are both economic and social

makes them more vulnerable to violence and contributes to an environment that

wrongly accepts, excuses, and even expects violence against women.

Children also experience sexual violence, which is usually perpetrated by persons

well known to the victims. For example a twelve years old girl was violated by her

father early in February this year from Kasikeu Ward and the case is still in court.

According to other information I have accessed from The Kenya Demographic and

Health Survey which was prepared between 2008-09, indicated that about 45% of

women aged 15-49years have experienced either physical or sexual violence.

Specifically, the report reveals that 25% of women have experienced physical

violence, 7% have experienced sexual violence, and 14% have experienced both

physical and sexual violence. The Kenya Demographic Report (2008-09) also

indicated that 3% women had perpetrated physical violence against their husbands

or partners. The Police Annual Crime Report (2010) showed an increase of 8% in

rape cases, 19% in defilement cases and 22% in cases of incest. Sexual gender based

violence has a greater impact on women and girls, as they suffer greater physical

harm than men when victimized. This form of violence during or around the time of

pregnancy can lead to unique consequences on maternal and child health.

Psychological impact of Gender Based Violence (GBV) can have devastating results

on the well-being of the mother not only in the period surrounding pregnancy but

even years later. In a meeting I shared with Medical experts at Nairobi Women’s

Hospital, they stated that, physical abuse may lead to pregnancy complications like


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miscarriage, placental abruption, premature delivery, low birth weight and fetal or

infant death. When a woman is not able to seek proper health care in the period

surrounding pregnancy or after physical abuse, the consequences can be fatal. The

legal procedures available for victims of gender based violence are intimidating,

especially for rural women and girls who may be illiterate or poorly educated and

who, because of gender roles and norms may not be accustomed to speaking for

themselves (or speaking publicly). The option of hiring a lawyer can be expensive

where legal aid is not easily accessible.

The legal procedures and lack of privacy at the reporting desks may prevent

survivors from seeking formal legal redress due to lack of privacy. I have a case of a

woman which I am stating as an example to this House; a female survivor of

domestic violence who dropped her case at Makindu Law Courts for she could not

afford to raise money for transport for duration of 3 years. She did not have any

income and the perpetrator who was her husband had taken, owned and controlled

all the matrimonial properties. At the end of the day we lost the case. At the

community level, there is lack of awareness that Sexual Gender Based Violence

(SGBV) is unlawful and should not be settled out of court. Communities are also

unaware that survivors of sexual violence should seek health interventions

immediately, and not later than 72 hours. During a time I was working for a human

rights organization we lost most of the Gender Based Violence (GBV) cases due to

lack of evidence. Arriving at hospital immediately allows for collection of forensic

evidence which helps survivors to access justice by ensuring availability of credible

evidence in cases of sexual violence.

Most health facilities in the County lack adequate resources, knowledge and skills

on collection and lab processing of forensic evidence. They also lack adequate

personnel at health Facilities to carry out comprehensive handling of survivors. I

have been referring survivors of Gender Based Violence (GBV) to Nairobi Women’s

Hospital and Liverpool at Kenyatta National Hospital which do offer medical,

psychosocial and legal assistance to survivors of Gender Based Violence (GBV). Lack

of co-ordination among the various stakeholders involved in the management of

Sexual Gender Based Violence (SGBV) namely the police, judiciary and health

workers is another challenge. In conclusion Sexual Gender Based Violence (SGBV) is

widespread and a severe human rights violation that should be given the attention it

deserves both at the grassroots level and by policy makers. If the Gender Based

Violence Centre is established at Makueni Level 5 Hospital, it will address all the


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gaps and challenges which are faced by Gender Based Violence (GBV) survivors. I

call upon Hon. Andrew Nzioki to second me.

Hon. Andrew Nzioki seconded.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you. The Hon. Member moving the

Motion seems to have researched a lot. It is coming to my attention that if this

centre is established you may opt either to continue to be an Hon. Member here you

give service of directorship in that trauma centre because you seem to be having a

lot of knowledge about it.

(Question proposed)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): The Hon. Member for Kitundu.

Hon. Member for Kithungo/Kitundu Ward (Christant Keli): Mr. Speaker I

raise to support the Motion in that it will assist the communities to access this

facility which will found near them. Although I will like to make my own observation

that Gender Based Violence has the Mover has empathized it is as though it affects

females only but in our communities there are those of the male Gender who are

actually suffered in the hands of their female gender especially where the issues of

alcoholism have been prevalent and with introduction of some funny drinks that are

actually are making most young men drink to a stupor. Most of the time when they

arrive home they are denied food, sometimes they are battered by their wives and

they have nowhere to report because sometimes these facilities are not readily

available. I would also like to also say that the economic status of most of the

communities make them not access justice or they are discriminated in such a

manner that the criminal justice system does not actually assist. If we have a such a

centre it will mean that such cases will be addressed immediately and there will be

no loss of evidence. If for example you subjected a sexually abuse person to Nairobi

most of the evidence will actually be destroyed by the time it reaches Nairobi. The

Government Chemist is actually found in Nairobi and this is where most of these

cases are referred to. If we have a centre in Makueni Level 5 Hospital it means

therefore, these cases which are found within this area will be addressed

immediately and there will be no loss or distortion of evidence.

We would also create awareness as such a centre will have outreach programmes

which will reach all the communities around. Most hospitals, dispensaries and

health centres will have an outreach centre in such a manner that most victims will

be aware that there is such a facility. What has been quoted by the Mover as one of

the authorities; Nairobi Women’s Hospital which deals with gender based violence is

far removed from this area. It would be better if we have a chapter in this area. I

think communities are advancing and if communities are advancing it is important


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that we bring services closer to the people so that they become aware because we

are also aware that most of the people are aware that their rights have been abused

but because the services are far removed from them they opt not to pursue the legal

justice system as it is. With those few remarks I beg t0 support.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you. I call upon Hon. Member for

Thange.

Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Masila Undwake): Thank you Mr.

Speaker for the opportunity. I rise to oppose this Motion based on the following

although I actually sympathize with our women. There is paradox that crusaders of

gender based violence are women and in most cases we have seen they are not

married and it is like there is a problem in understanding of how families should be

run. I am also against the setting up of this gender based violence recovery centre at

Makueni. Firstly, injuries are injuries whether they are brought about by wild

animals, by man or pieces of wood or even thieves. Our health care system is

actually dealing with these issues day in day out. Our doctors are advanced and can

handle anything and they are doing it now so I would not see any urge to set up

another centre that will divert the little money that we have to such a centre.

Comprehensive medical services are available in Makindu and even here in the level

5 hospital. This post exposure prophylaxis is actually being done. This ECP-our

women have been educated and even school girls are getting them from

pharmacies—the P2. The word gender sometimes is skewed because gender means

man or woman, so most of the cases we are getting are actually gender and that is

being dealt with in our hospitals.

Hon. Janet Kitunga: On a Point of Information Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): What is the Information?

Hon. Janet Kitunga: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this opportunity. I would

say that gender does not mean a woman or man. Gender is different roles carried

out by men and women and they vary from one community to another. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you.

Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Masila Undwake): Thank you Mr.

Speaker. The setting up of that centre will lead to duplication of services. Forensic

collection of physical evidence and samples, filing of post rape cases, P3 forms as we

talk is being handled well and we have no intention to turn our hospitals into police

stations. We have psychologists, we have counselors everywhere and they are doing


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their job. What we need is the religious sector; the churches and it is unfortunate

80% of the populace are Christians yet we are seeing a lot of this violence. Women

and men need to be trained on how families should be run. We have several NGOs

dealing with this awareness and they are being funded like FIDA. This aspect of

gender based violence is being turned into a cash cow. NGOs are coming up and

they are very many but the impact is not being seen. We should maybe turn to God

so that we can see what to do. With the little money we have- because the

Department of Health is gobbling about 2 million- if we are to put up that centre in

Wote we might as well stop the construction of that maternity wing and we might

see more harm than good being done. With that much I do not support this Motion

and I would wish our people are trained on family issues. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): I call upon the Hon. Member for Kee.

Hon. Member for Kee Ward (Jonathan Mutua): Mr. Speaker I will not

oppose it; I will support this Motion. Firstly, the presenter has really demonstrated

that she knows what she has brought to this House and I want to congratulate her

for her presentation. It was excellent and she has done real collections on her

research. Maybe in future after 2017 she might be the Deputy Governor when I am

the Governor here.

(Laughter)

Hon. Member for Kee Ward (Jonathan Mutua): Mr. Speaker when we talk of

gender we mean male and female and she has even added that it depends on the

nature of work that they do. It touches me when I know that we Kambas are still

practicing the old methods whereby it was as if it was the right of a man or males to

misuse females. I think those ages have been overtaken by events and I am saying

this because it is something I have witnessed in my Ward whereby a man of 40 years

old and more had canal knowledge of an 11 year old who was in standard four. This

man was arrested by my area chief, locked up in the local administration cells

pending the following day. The following day before 11 o’clock he was released and

what I found was an agreement between the relatives of the girl and the man who

ruined her that after two to three weeks he would pay 20,000 shillings to the family

and a goat to wazee to slaughter and have some beer and cleanse that. I am

supporting the Motion because it pains me and although it is the wrong time and I

cannot make an amendment; it pained me and I had to take action and told them if

they were the girl let them take the 20,000 shillings because stigma is with the

school girl not the mother or father or the relatives. Fortunately in the morning she

had been checked by the local dispensary nurse and I took those records and


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reported the case to the police and believe me the man is now serving 10 years in jail

after more than eight months of the case. I am first dwelling with the gender based

violence before establishing the centres here because I feel they should be increased

but I do not want to make the amendment.

Recently a maid was jailed for defiling a young boy and we saw in the newspapers.

She was the maid and since her employer did not know that there was a danger of

having same bedroom with the maid they would allow the son and the maid to

spend in one room. This maid used to provoke that young boy and satisfy her

devilish desires. I call it devilish because that is also abuse of the youth. I also saw

on the internet where a young boy of about 4 or 5 years being abused by another

maid. I do not how true that was or whether it was an imitation but it clicked my

mind that we should also advise parents to be careful when dealing with maids. To

establish this recovery centre in Makueni is a noble idea but I feel a lot of mess is

being done at the rural areas and I am concerned on how we spend thirty million on

civic education just to tell the people that Members of County Assembly are not

project implementers, telling them who are project implementers and yet they do

not dig deep to a lesson like this one which causes a lot of stigma in our community.

This is where the money for civic education should go. Even ourselves; men here, we

are also abused at home. I think many have faced their wives in real --- (Laughter). I

think there sometimes when you are faced by your wife when she is furious and you

cannot imagine if that is your wife looking at you like that. Some of us are even

abused; I do not want to pinpoint. We are men when we are in these suits and

talking like this but at home we become different. I had my friend who was fighting

with his wife and I asked him what happened to him. It is only two days ago- after

the wife delivered more and they separated-when I was informed that he was knifed

by his wife. So, there is also violence that I want to tell Dr. Masila about that even

men face and they need to be safeguarded from by this Motion Hon. Kitunga has

brought in this House. Nowadays we have a group dealing with male based violence

in Nairobi because it is becoming too much. So, I beg to support fully this motion. I

support wholly and even wish it can be extended to more sectors within our Wards.

I ask the mover of this Motion whom I know is a very good activist to talk because

when we were refusing to award some money to Civic Education and I know her

stand, this time she should say we need Civic Education money to be put in such

things whereby it has to be taught in Education Institutions, in churches, in schools

and in Barazas. Some people hide once abused because even boys are being

abused. Recently you saw the Catholic priest in the newspapers who has abused


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more than 70 boys here in rural Kenya. This is something we cannot hide from.

There are those abusing boys, there are those abusing girls, and the parents hide

because they live in the old days. These kids are infected with diseases that kill

them. So, we have to teach them and educate them and tell them when you see

something like this happening do not to hide, report it because we want them to

lead a decent life. So as we establish this centre in Wote, I support it, I say I will

bring an amendment later to increase the centres so that if my wife abuses me in

Kee I will rush to the Ward office there and report the issue there then I am safe.

Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you Hon. Member. Just a guide on

what the Hon. Member eluded that he cannot move an amendment because of time

but I want just want to guide the House, that you can amend Motions with the leave

of the Speaker or Chair. It is well provided in Standing Order no. 51, subsection (1)

and (2) and 52 subsection (2); at any time you can move an amendment even

leaving the 2 hours’ Notice. So, I am guiding Members so that you can know you can

amend Motions. Otherwise thank you. Hon. Member Chairman of Health

Committee.

Hon. Member for Masongaleni Ward (John Kilonzo): Thank you Mr.

Speaker. I rise to oppose this Motion. It is a very good Motion but according to the

research we listened to-which is very good- something was quoted by the Mover

from The Beijing Declaration, the other one was about when she discussed issues to

do with gender violence with Nairobi Doctors. We are talking about Makueni Level 5

Hospital where if this Motion had come in form of Statement, we would be

comfortable if we were dealing with a report that is actually based on what is

happening in Makueni Level 5 Hospital. Unless we have data showing exactly the

reason why we should have such a centre, we will be misplaced because we do not

know how many cases we are dealing with and I do not think this is a priority Mr.

Speaker. Also when you look at the issues which are given here, most of them do

not need a centre because they happen like post exposure prophylaxis to prevent

HIV. That is automatic; it is even now happening in every hospital in Makueni

because we cannot leave gender based violence cases to go without being checked

for HIV. So, this is a matter that does not need something specialized.

Also, we do not need a specialized hospital to create awareness for the physical,

social and legal obligations. Rather what we need in our society is that we have a lot

of poverty and we should ask ourselves why violence is happening. That is my

situation of concern. Why is it happening, because of immoral behavior in our


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society? I also suggest that that’s where we should be directing our energy to make

sure that our society is sober. Women and their husbands who are fighting

carelessly much of it is coming from fighting for resources because of the meager

resources. We have moral decay and we have churches. We can use them. So, I feel

we have other things to do. We do not need to have a specialized centre. That is a

way of encouraging things that are not actually to be allowed to be in our midst;

that is social violence or gender violence. So, I am opposing this Motion with a lot of

gusto. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): The Hon. Member for Kalanzoni.

Hon. Member for Kalanzoni Ward (Caroline Musee): Thank you Mr.

Speaker. I support this Motion of establishing a gender based recovery centre at

Makueni Level 5. I think most of us are debating and I would like to say that gender

is the state of being male or female. Gender is culturally and socially constructed

difference between men and women. According to Wikipedia, gender is a range of

characteristics pertaining differentiating between masculinity and femininity.

Gender based violence is violence that is directed against a person; that is a man or

a woman. The Constitution of Kenya, 2010 under Article 26, states that every person

has a right to life. Further Article 27 provides that the state shall take legislative and

other measures to give fully effect to the realization of the rights that are deemed.

Every person has the inherent dignity and the right to have that dignity respected or

protected. Having said that, Article 29 says it all; every person has a right to

freedom and security of persons which includes the rights not to be subjected to any

form of violence from either public 0r private sources, subjected to torture in any

manner whether physical or psychological.

Mr. Speaker we have witnessed that this is happening and we have no centres to run

to. At the community level as the Mover has said, for sure these people hide when

these things happen, they do not have anywhere to run to run to, they only tell their

immediate persons and at times they shy off. When left with such a thing you may

be tortured and you just die because of depression. Women are vulnerable and I

believe this centre will assist many victims including men. As the Hon. Member for

Kee who is my neighbor here has said violence cannot only be fighting. You can be

tortured through insults and for sure these men can witness. It is only that they

cannot open up and say that they have been abused literally when they go home

without money --- (Laughter) or if they are unable to cater for their families they get

it rough. Some of them I know when we have this Centre we will be assisting most

of them. At night they will visit the centre and they will be counseled. We need to


March, 2015



enlighten our people. I totally support this Motion because I believe it is a good

Motion.

What is this we call violence? I wish the Mover of the Motion had touched men

literally because there must be a reason why men are torturing women and what is

that drives someone to rape a small child. It is torture and we need a Centre. The

day before yesterday when the vetting was going on I saw a senior police officer

who was being vetted cry on camera. I wished for this guy; if there was a Centre I

know he would run to that Centre because he was unable to say where he got his

money. Let us open up and let us assist our County. One of our mandates is to

legislate. It will cost us nothing if we set up that Centre. Makueni County has no

centre and the number of cases that I hear of are many. Looking at the number of

suicides that are done most of them are from men who are against this Motion. The

other day I heard someone from Kaiti committed suicide. What leads you to commit

suicide? Ask yourself and answer yourself. That is why we need the Centre. I totally

support this Motion and I am happy my sister Hon. Janet Kitung’a -who has that

background- is the right person who has moved that Motion and I am asking Hon.

Members to not water down what we have. It is the only Motion that at least is

touching on gender issues. You want to tell me when I came with a cancer issue here

you will not support me? Support me because I know men also men also get

prostate cancer. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you, the Hon. Member for Ivingoni.

Hon. Member for Ivingoni Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): Thank you Mr. Speaker.

One of the issues that we have witnessed in the recent past is increased child abuse,

increased beating of both men and women and personally I have come from a

background where I have been dealing with gender based violence. I do run a rescue

Centre for girls and boys who have been abused. I have dealt with several- not less

than eight-cases of sodomy in the last 24 months. I still have girls who have been

abused by their parents and I want to give this one very good example which I

witnessed with one of the members of staff in this County Assembly. Three years

ago we were called arising from an emergency because we have a response team

that actually attends to these cases to a school called Mang’elete and when we

rushed what we found there was screamingly terrible. We found a child of about

seven years who had been raped for two days and the blood was flowing from the

class to the outside. We took the child to the nearest hospital in Mtito Andei and

they said they could do nothing about it and they advised we should not waste time

going to Voi or Makindu but rush to Nairobi Women’s hospital. We travelled to


March, 2015



Nairobi overnight and I this remember I stood for a record none hours waiting for

the theatre people to finish the operation they did on the child.

That injury is not actually the matter as the mover of this Motion has said. What

happens after the treatment is why the centres are required. When you go to

Nairobi Women’s Hospital which is a gender based violence Centre the victims are

also counseled; both men and women and they are somehow given their life back.

One of the things that come with gender based violence is stigma. You cannot treat

stigma at Makindu as it is today or at Mtito Andei or even Level 5 or even Kenyatta

National Hospital as it is today. You cannot treat self-denial in our hospitals as they

are today. We have girls who opt to move out of school completely. We had a case

of a girl who had been raped by some men from the Maasai region and when the

case came to us we found the Chief and the then area Counselor sitting down to

settle the matter, without the child having been taken to hospital. We intervened

and took the child to hospital but the mental torture, the stigma, the self-denial and

the feeling that she is not needed anymore could not be treated although she had

been treated at Mtito Andei and Makindu. She could not live out of the feeling that

she was tortured. The Centre does not require ---

Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Masila Undwake): Point of Order.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Which point of Order?

Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Masila Undwake): 87.


Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Masila Undwake): Mr. Speaker it

says 87 (1) A Member shall be responsible for the accuracy of any facts which the

Member alleges to be true and may be required to substantiate any such facts

instantly. Is it in Order for the Hon. Member to say stigma cannot be treated in our

hospitals? We have Psychiatrists, we have Doctors and they are dealing with all

those issues when we are here that is their job and we are doing it. Mr. Speaker

(???) to a hospital in Nairobi which is known to be a woman’s hospital you will never

find any man admitted there so is it right for Hon. Members to mislead this Hon.

House. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you, Hon. Nzilili.

Hon. Member for Ivingoni Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): Mr. Speaker we need to

appreciate the composition of this House. This House has brought in Members of


March, 2015



public but they are now Hon. Members with diversity of experience, diversity of

backgrounds and we are not talking from the blues.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Yes, but the Hon. Member is a Doctor. He

has---

Hon. Member for Ivingoni Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): The last time the Hon.

Member went to treat in a hospital might not be something we have on record here.

He has been running a pharmacy and a business. I am the person who has been

going to those hospitals and I have never found a psychiatrist who could treat the

children I took there. We do not need to substantiate the obvious. We have no

psychiatrist at Makindu, at Mtito Andei and what the Hon. Mover has said here- and

God bless you- is that, we need specialization and we need to put one thing through.

When we are talking of creating a centre we are not talking of constructing a

building; the current infrastructure at Level Five can only set aside a room. It is not a

matter of coming up with a construction and when the Hon. Member for Kee talked

and left he said that we can have this even in the other hospitals. We do not need

construction; we just need human resource sent to those centres. People who can

feel the pain of that other person even before the pain is inflicted in them, that is

what Hon. Member Kitunga has said.

When I said we have diversity of backgrounds as we listened to Hon. Kitunga, she

even gave data. When we have data for Kenya Makueni is not outside Kenya. We

are talking of 83% gender based violence. Only 83% are reported other cases are

not reported and one of the things I have experienced in my work in child rescue is

the issue of P3. To get a P3 even when a child has been raped and the child comes

from a very poor background is a nightmare and so we are talking of a centre that

can actually make it possible for these children to be given P3’s free of charge and so

it trickles down to all other health centres so that the centre can actually be the

mother of all the other centres that happen. It is true-and I agree with Hon. Kilonzo

and Hon. Undwake, and I understand now its official Undwake is his name that---

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Hon. Member how is it official.

Hon. Member for Ivingoni/Nzambani Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): We have

received the Gazette Notice.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): It has not come to the notice of the

Assembly that, that is his official name.

Hon. Member for Ivingoni/Nzambani Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): I withdraw.


March, 2015




Hon. Member for Ivingoni/Nzambani Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): Mr. Speaker---

Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Undwake): On a Point of

Information.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Yes information.

Hon. Member for Thange Ward (Martin Undwake): Mr. Speaker, my name

has been Gazzetted; it is actually official. I have actually applied for an ID in that

name and I have forwarded a copy of that Gazette Notice to the Clerk for the

changeover. I even a have the copy for your perusal.

(Laughter)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Okay, when we get it, then we will

communicate to the House.

Hon. Member for Ivingoni/ Nzambani (Cosmas Nzilili): So, Mr. Speaker as I

support this Motion, I wanted us to know that it is not going to ask for extra money.

The Government has human resource in other Departments even if it is in Nairobi

and when we urge them to come up with this centre they will only bring human

resource to Makueni and Makueni Level 5 Administration will set aside a room

where after somebody has been treated physically, the mental and other faculties of

that person will be treated there by people who know how to deal with people who

have been abused. We cannot say that we are away from this. Mr. Speaker you

have seen even in today’s paper an MCA from Kiambu; the Juja Ward who had run

away and has come back. This could have been gender based violence. So, let us

not assume as Hon. Members we cannot be victims and especially when we are in

the County where our salaries can be withheld and you go home without money.

Anything can happen so we need the centre. Thank you, I support.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you Hon. Member --- (Laughs). The

Hon. Member Kavita.

Hon. Member for Kikumini Ward (Josiah Kavita): Thank you Mr. Speaker. It

is very peculiar that although we promote democracy I suppose this is something we

should not loose. This is one kind of project or establishment that we have actually

been missing in the County. The legal aspect; the introduction of legal

representation is one of the things that this Motion has looked into and it is actually

what we have been missing. What Hon. Nzilili is saying, that we do not need a big


March, 2015



centre a multibillion or a very huge project; we need a room where these services

can be administrated from. You remember the National Government established

some gender based violence customer care desks in our police station but it does

not work even today. I want personally when I had some issues from my Ward and I

could not even locate the desk. Despite the fact that I am a Member of County

Assembly, we could not establish who sits at the desk. I was amazed.

Mr. Speaker I am trying to imagine a time or one day when I leave the County

Assembly headed to my home and I am told my maid was having sex with my

standard 2 child. How embarrassing can that be and how do you handle such a

situation faced by us not establishing this centre. Although democracy is allowed I

suppose in this world when we want to win in something we have to specialized in

something. We are not saying we do not have psychiatrists or other doctors in some

other hospitals or that those this services cannot be obtained in somewhere but we

are only saying let us specialize, let us have a centre where we know when you have

such a little problem or a big problem this is where you can take the problem. We

need counseling for some of our people; some of the victims. Taking for example

what Hon. Member for Kee is saying; an 11 year old who does not even know what

that object is; even by name and then she is penetrated how else can you explain to

that woman or lady or child? We need this counseling and this is only place or

centre that can offer such counseling.

Although we have relaxed our muscles on our culture there are some areas and I

want to mean some areas because I worked there, areas like Kikumbulyu there

some people if we do not have things like these ones they will never even know the

light of the tomorrow. It is only the other day I was burying a cousin from that area

and he was affected by depression because of the same; Gender Based Violence.

His wife was stronger than him --- (Laughs) and he could be bettered throughout the

night. What would you expect Mr. Speaker? It does even call for one to be educated

so that you can visit this facility. It is only today I have read from the Star about a

very educated lady with a PHD saying she could not imagine whether she could be

battered by her husband. What was she lacking? education? No. Money? No.

Information? No. We are not saying that this is only limited to the very poor part of

our community or persons we are only saying we want a centre where we can get

instant services for what we require. This is the only way and if this proposal is

subjected to a budget I would be the first person to support the establishment. Like

Mheshimiwa Nzilili is saying we need the services; the human resource-people just

to give the services. Even if it is on a desk but what we require is the services. I

support.


March, 2015



Hon. Member for Nguu/Masumba Ward (Timothy Maneno): On a Point of

Information.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): You want to give Information to the

Members? Maybe there is something they are leaving out.

Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Timothy Maneno): I want to give Information

to the Members. As much as the Members want to demonstrate their positive

gesture towards the Motion I would request that they try to observe the Archimedes

Principle where they do not demonstrate beyond a degree where it might be

frightening or making us shrink.

(Laughter)

Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Timothy Maneno): Let them not go---

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): What are you telling them not to say?

Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Timothy Maneno): Let us also observe that

when you are supporting this you just need to do so on the surface and not too

deep.

(Laughter)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Do you fear that you may be quoted by the

Members?

(Laughter)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): I think they have to give the details and

show how intensive or strong the issue is.

Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Timothy Maneno): Mr. Speaker I thought---

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): How can you limit Members on what to say?

Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Timothy Maneno): When I try to quote the

Archimedes Principle it is where you can explain or demonstrate a matter but you

do not go to the extreme. I think we understand and we come from this area.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Hon. Member I think you are just fearing

perception or a fear of unknown—that is what we call psychosis disorder where you

fear what is not there. I think Members are trying to show it is a sensitive issue and


March, 2015



they have to give some case studies so that the Members can know the sensitivity of

it. Just cool down; do not fear, they are not going to your side.

Hon. Deputy Minority Leader (Timothy Maneno): Mr. Speaker I thought my

argument would be seeking asylum from your desk but now I am scared when you…

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): You know I cannot allow you to limit

Members. You cannot put a gauge on Members and what they are supposed to say

or if you fear you can excuse yourself from the chamber so that they can now be

free; if that is the issue.

(Hon. Maneno rises to leave the Chamber)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): I think that is okay—we can excuse you.

(Laughter)

(Applause)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): I call upon the Hon. Minority Leader.

Hon. Minority Leader (John Mwenze): Thank you Mr. Speaker sir. In the

absence of Deputy Leader Minority I take the pleasure to give that role to the Mover

of the Motion to hold brief until our Deputy Leader Minority comes back. I am also

in support of the Motion. This is not a superficial matter that can be looked at at

face value but it runs deep to the blood stream of our communities. If you look at

our community recently it has a lot of what we call moral decay. In the issue of

mankind there are some cases that are increasing to an extent that we hope by the

turn of this century even some institutions might not be there. We all have heard

about a lot of suicide, homicide and even incest whereby relatives are taking

advantage and trying to have canal knowledge of their relatives and other people

while even the Bible and moral structures say that you should not even marry a

relative of your own. When you look at the way we are reporting what we shall call

conditions—as Members of the Assembly and other Hon. Members elsewhere have

been subjected to a condition we call high blood pressure. There are others who

have been subjected to stress.

At least one day in time we thought of constructing a Trauma centre at Makindu not

necessarily for the victims of accidents but anyone who has suffered such trauma.

We have to have a shift from what we have been doing before but still do what

pertains to us. When you look at the protection that is given to a rapist against the

care that is given to that person who has been raped or defiled it is wanting. In some


March, 2015



communities people do not like report such cases because they have been done by

elderly people or people of respect. They do not want to report the rapist but they

are not taking care of the one who has been raped because he or she needs to have

their rights. Once we protect the wrong doer then the Law we are calling upon to

follow up is not there. What is necessarily known as post violence care is not

necessarily limited to the extent that a man has been beaten by a woman or a

woman has been beaten by a man. I have witnessed stripping of women and

stripping of women is mainly done by men and this causes psychological effect to

the one who has been stripped but people enjoy and even clap when they see men

stripping other men in pretense that this person is a tout, he is very dirty and he has

to be washed in public. You have also heard people or men circumcising other men

in public and this is also violence from the people of the same gender. This one the

community is condemning and sometimes it is also accepting. That is why I am

saying the moral decay is causing a lot of psychological torture to most of the

people not only Makueni but the communities at large.

A friend of mine tried to say that stigma is there or stigma is not there. Stigma is an

expression and the victim can also be stigmatized but the people who bring the

major problem are the other people; the community itself. The stigma from the

community is the worst because for example, when HIV/AIDS was first discovered in

this world the victims of HIV/AIDS were victimized through that stigma from the

community. Whoever has raped may not suffer a lot of stigma than the one who has

been raped or the one who has been defiled. Stigma as a situation is there but the

best way to control needs us to change our morals. Sometimes we trivialize issues

that are not to be watered down and anything can happen to anybody. One day

when I am given security and protection I will also reveal things that happen to

people including myself but for the moment let us not assume when an MCA of

Nairobi was gunned down or went to his own rescue. It is not a laughing matter it

may happen to me or another member. This is perpetrating that stigma because

when one tries to trivialize such a serious matter it seems like we are supporting

whoever was doing it but whoever it has been done to is not given enough care and

it is not seen as if it was done to a fellow human being who needs to be protected to

the best extent.

In support of the Motion, we know these cases are happening it is only that we are

proposing to have a centre centralized in one place but if these things are happening

to the poor and those who do not have the resources then even travelling from

Mtito Andei to Makueni for such services may not be achievable. These things are

happening at various levels of our hospitals including dispensaries and health


March, 2015



centres-it is only that we do not have the psychiatrists and that is why we have

Mathare Hospital. Mr. Speaker if you look at it well you will see that most of these

people who suffer from depression and what we call madness majority of them are

men. It is because most men do not have the capacity of coping with these stresses.

When you go to secondary schools hysteria is there with young girls and other

people. Why? This is because the mechanism to cope with the same is not well

established and that is why we have to have a centre that will be giving counseling

and also doing the lessons for our people. All in all the community perception of the

same has to change. We have to shift from what is current because it may be

perpetrating what we are trying to reduce or control. I support the Motion.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): I call upon the Hon. Member for Mtito

Andei.

Hon. Member Mtito Andei Ward (Shadrack Mwau): Thank you Mr. Speaker

for the chance. I rise to support the Motion and before forgetting I would like to

congratulate Hon. Nzilili for what he has done in bringing up a rescue centre in his

Ward. I want to congratulate the Hon. Member for moving this Motion because this

is happening in the community. We do not say it is only the female. It is both female

and male; these are our sisters and brothers, our mothers, fathers and also our

children. Whatever is happening in the community is affecting us in one way or the

other. I want to give this House an example which I saw of one child who was abused

and who comes from a Ward known as Nzambani/Ivingoni. He was found in the park

burning charcoal and the officer took the child and threw that child in the fire and

that was the end of the story. I met the child with his mother and I asked the child

what had happened. It was a very sad story because the condition of that kid was

very pathetic. After one or two weeks I tried to follow up the case or what happened

after that. What I know up till now -may be the Hon. Member from that Ward has

different information- is that no action was taken against that officer. So, it means

that if we had a centre like this may be the kid could have been taken to that centre

and the necessary measures could have been taken against that officer. I think our

people are being molested and are being abused and nothing is being done to those

culprits.

I would also support this Motion because being a member of the society and also

because we are in a devolved system of governance, when we say a centre should be

established in this Hospital which we have in Wote, I understand that things goes

down to Ward level dispensaries so whatever case will happening in the Ward, I

think the Doctors or the Nurses or the Clinical Officers who are in that centre will be


March, 2015



referring the matter to the centre. Our Government has done quite a bit-the

Minister who was in that department-we have ambulances and I think now

transferring these patients to the centre may not cost us a lot. I also witnessed a

case where one girl aged 8 years was raped in my Ward and the case was taken to

Mtito Andei Police Station. I do not know what happened because when I went to

see the OCS, he told me the parents of that kid came there and agreed that the case

should not be taken to Makindu. When I followed up I found out that the parents

had nothing to do rather than agree with what they were told by the OCS. If we

agree and establish a centre like this, I think we will be assisting a lot. Mr. Speaker I

rise to support the Motion and I would also say men or boys are also being

sodomized. It is not just the case the Hon. Member for Muvau has put it. Men are

also affected-although as I understand that organ when you do not have feeling it

cannot penetrate-there are cases of that sought Mr. Speaker. So, I rise to support

the Motion and say the Department should move with speed to establish this

centre. Thank you Mr. Speaker.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you.

Hon. Member for Ivingoni /Nzambani Ward (Cosmas Nzilili): An order has

been violated by virtue of the Deputy Minority Leader leaving this place and I want

to go to order no. 231. I think the Member is lacking somewhere to sit. Order no.

231 says, (1) There shall be reserved seats in the Chamber of the County Assembly for

the exclusive use of each of the following-

(a) The Chairperson of Committees

(b) The Leader of the Majority party

(c) The Leader of Minority

(d) Members with Disabilities

(2) All other seats in the Assembly should be available for the use of any Member.

Order no. 231 sub order no. 3 Subject to this Standing Order and any other Order of

the County Assembly, any question relating to the occupation of seats in the Chamber

shall be determined by the Speaker. We have noted with keen interest and also with a

lot of pain that as we much we want the Hon. Maneno to continue sitting here, I

think the seats are limited in size. I request the Hon. Chair; Speaker of this County

Assembly to determine using that Standing Order where Hon. Maneno shall be

sitting so that next time his seat is reserved earlier. This seat is only for Committees

not for a whole plenary. Thank you Mr. Speaker.


March, 2015



Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you. That is good Hon. Member. You

know it is known that the Speaker has eyes but the eyes do not see in the Assembly

while on the Chair. It is good the Hon. Member is now seeing for the Speaker that a

certain Member is sitting in the wrong place. So, the Speaker cannot say the Hon.

Member is sitting in the wrong place. He is just seeing a member seated. That is why

I am saying the Speakers have eyes but they do not see. But as for the Hon. Member

I think the Sergeant at arms should organize so that the Member is not seated

where he has been seated. It is actually not in order. There are so many seats, if his

seat has a problem it can either be repaired or you can take another seat elsewhere.

The size of the seats is okay, it is only the strength of the seat so Sergeant at Arms

the seat can be strengthened so that we do not have a situation where Members are

just seated anyhow; the House will look funny. I think that one will be taken care of

so that the Member sits appropriately where he is supposed to sit but not to sit as a

Sergeant at Arms. You know he was posing a security threat there because you do

not know whether he is timing to go with mace and you know his size--- (Laughter)

but the Speaker could not see. Now because the Member has seen for me that is

why I am giving that direction now so that the Member can be seated at the right

place in the next meeting. Let the seat be strengthened in whichever way.

Otherwise thank you. There was a Member on the floor, Hon. Mwalali.

Hon. Member for Kalanzoni Ward (Caroline Munanie): Point of

Information.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Yes Point of Information.

Hon Member for Kalanzoni Ward (Caroline Munanie): Mr. Speaker looking

at the size of chairs within the Assembly I think they are more less the same. I have

noticed that Hon. Maneno is thrice my size and I am unable to sit in this one; at

least I try to squeeze myself so that I can fit and his body mass weighs around

200kgs so I suggest we get him a special seat. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you but you know we have to follow

the Standing Orders. The Standing Order does not provide for the size of the

Members. May be you can change the Standing Orders; you amend them, so that

you include size and say those with this size will sit in such a place. Now that the size

is not there and I am happy because the ceilings have come I think the major

problem because there was no ceiling. But now that the ceiling is there it is also

ceiling Members so the Member will reduce with time; do not mind. I do not see

much of a problem. If that .seat is strengthened, then the Member will be

comfortable and I think that is okay Hon. Member but in future you can also change


March, 2015



the Standing Orders to give room for size of Members although that one may be

discriminative in a way. In an Assembly discussing size of Members is discriminative

and somebody can go to court and say that you are violating their rights. Anyway, I

think we will take care of that, and the Sergeant at Arms will know what to do. Even

if it means fitting the Member; getting a carpenter to fit the Members and then the

chair is made to fit him then that is okay. That one they will do it. Can we continue,

the Hon. Member for Mavindini?

Hon. Member for Kitise/Kithuki Ward (Julius Mwalali): Point of correction

Mr. Speaker, I am from Kitise/Kithuki.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Sorry, Kitise. I think I am not doing like the

Speaker of the National Assembly who calls Members, ‘You in blue’. I think I am

trying.

Hon. Member for Kitise/Kithuki Ward (Julius Mwalali): Thank you Mr.

Speaker.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Okay thank you.

Hon. Member for Kitise/Kithuki Ward (Julius Mwalali): I have stood to

support establishment of this centre. I want to thank the Member who has brought

this Motion to the House and I do believe that she had good intention having looked

around at the cases of violence which have been happening in our County. We have

been hearing through media day in day out and more so in our local media cases of

violence reported and I would say that this Motion has come at the right time of

devolution. We all know that we have been competing for few facilities in the entire

country where by these services can be got. I would say that coming up with this

kind of centre in our County will be of very great importance to our people. Cases

have been explained by Members of this Hon. House, whereby casualties have been

referred to Nairobi and getting attention has been taking long. I am of the thinking

that once we establish this kind of centre in our County such kind of delays to our

casualties will be no more. Therefore I would urge dear Hon. Members to fully

support this Motion considering the cases we have been having in our entire County

of gender violence and bearing in mind that a case has been raised by Hon. Member

for Kee which requires some amendment -even though you had advised there

before- that it is not only for the central hospital which is at Makueni. If any can be

done, these facilities should be devolved to our local dispensaries. Therefore I do

support that we establish this centre and as time goes by and if resources are


March, 2015



available we further establish such centres in all the 30 Wards. Thank you and I do

support.

Hon. Member for Masongaleni Ward (John Kilonzo): On a Point of

Information.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Yes Information.

Hon. Member for Masongaleni Ward (John Kilonzo): Mr. Speaker with due

respect I think it is important for Members to note that what is happening is not

something that we are creating; something new in our medical setup. In every

health facility there is supposed to be health education by people- not psychiatrists-

but people who are trained to do health education. It is also good that Members are

ventilating but it is important to note that we are not creating something new that

has not been happening in our hospitals. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you, the Hon. Member Kasikeu.

Hon. Member for Kasikeu Ward (Paul Malinda): Thank you Mr. Speaker, I

rise to support the Motion and before I start my contribution I would like to correct

the Hon. Member who insinuated that Nairobi Women’s Hospital attends only to

women. I want to assure him that men are also attended to there. I have cases which

I have referred there so the Hon. Member should not be worried over that. I want

first to congratulate the mover of the Motion who happens to be my voter, for

bringing this Motion which I believe has come at the right time. Gender violence has

been on the rise of late. The stigma which comes as a result of gender violence is

very high especially to men. This is because men do not open up when such cases

happen to us. Gender based violence does not amount only to rape and may be

being beaten but as other Members said it also includes mental torture and other

forms of violence. It is a noble idea to have these centres in the County and as other

Members have put it, we devolve them towards sub-County hospitals so that these

services can be available near our people and as one Members has put it, it can be

operated even at night as the VCT clinics do so that those people who do not have

the courage to go there in the day time avoiding the issue of stigma can visit the

clinics and be advised or counseled. I hope this Motion will be implemented by the

Executive as it has been brought by the Member and it will not be put in store to

gather dust like other Motions which have been passed by this House. Thank you, I

support.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you, the Hon. Raymond.


March, 2015



Hon. Scholastica Raymond: Mr. Speaker sir, I stand to support this Motion.

As we can see, the world climate is changing. Also the behavior of our men and

women is also changing. Long ago men were giving young children or girls respect

but nowadays they do not. If we have this centre men and women will be going for

counseling and we will not be seeing these evil things. The desire of men and the

need for this sexual act have changed. Most of them wait for the young girls as they

go to the rivers. You can see men following those young ladies. I also heard that a

group of men raped an old woman in Kithungo/ Kitundu Ward and the woman died

in Kenyatta National Hospital and the men were not arrested. Another man

changed his mind and instead of asking the ladies and the women he turned to

sheep and goats so there is need for these centres for men to be counseled. I don’t

know where we are headed. We are moving to hell and it is my request to ask men

to pray to God so that desire his limited---

(Laughter)

Hon. Scholastica Raymond: It is bad for a man to make a sheep his wife---

(Laughter)

Hon. Scholastica Raymond: I even think they are going to use hens and

cows. I think it is time we change our behaviors and leave the drugs which our

young men take. Mr. Speaker it is bad. It hurts us as women when we see a young

lady walking lamely because of a man; a big man---

(Laughter)

Hon. Scholastica Raymond: With a small lady. It is bad. I think this devil

should be chased away from our County. I support the Motion.

(Applause)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you Hon. Member. I think what is

important is not the size, it is the age---

(Laughter)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): I think the Hon. Raymond was referring to

an old man and a young girl. I think it is not the size because you cannot say the

size is molesting, no. I think it is the age; that is what matters. But this one who

goes with the sheep I do not know how counseling will help. That is what was

available for the man. The Hon. Member for Mukaa.


March, 2015



Hon. Member for Mukaa Ward (Jonathan Ndungi): Thank Mheshimiwa

Speaker for the opportunity. Sex is supposed to be a divine as a thing and therefore

it should be what is available because --- (Laughs)

Hon. Member for Kikumbulyu North Ward (Bensley Mathuku): On a Point

of Information

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Information to whom?

Hon. Member for Kikumbulyu North Ward (Bensley Mathuku): I want to

inform you that --- (Technical hitch)

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Maybe the sheep died later. --- (Loud

consultation) the sheep may not have died because of the harassment. I think---

(Laughs). The Hon. Member for Mukaa.

Hon. Member for Mukaa Ward (Jonathan Ndungi): Okay, thank you very

much Mr. Speaker for the opportunity to contribute to this Motion and thank you

also for advising men that they should not interfere with what is available but with

the right thing. I would like to begin by really congratulating Mheshimiwa Kitunga

for bringing forth this Motion because it is really a unique Motion and as you said it

was well researched and it is giving us guidance. I want begin by saying that when

we talk of human rights and we also talk of fundamental freedoms and rights of

people in gender issues we should realize that these are also the things that are

talked about globally or internationally. It is important for us also to understand

that Kenya does not live in an islands but Kenya is also a signatory to the

international conventions that have been passed and other agreements and I tend

to believe they cover some of these issues concerning gender and all this and

therefore, we should be able to support this Motion.

Again, I want to say that in any organization like where we are because this is an

organization although is an institution of a sort, the structures have to be put in

place and they should move from a general way of organization to specific or to a

specialized way. Like when we came to this Assembly in the beginning we were

seated in forms and I want to say that was a general way of a sitting but we moved

also from those; you moved the Assembly from that way of structure to a

specialized way of sitting and now we look better, we are comfortable, we look nice

and that is also what we would like to see our health institutions look like. For the

last three months almost on the daily basis I have been visiting our hospital- which is

our referral hospital- because I have a patient there and I have been very

embarrassed by the way things are done there because things are not done in a


March, 2015



specialized manner. If you want a doctor you spend a whole day looking for the

doctor. I have a patient there who is waiting to be operated on and I have waited

for three weeks and the way the arrangements are they are not specific. Therefore,

I want to say that all what Mheshimiwa Kitunga is proposing is that we should move

from a general way of doing something in our County to a specialized way of doing

something.

Yesterday as I left the Assembly and I was going home at around 7:00p.m. I met a

girl who was insane and had been beating by the certain man lying on the road and a

mob was there and the girl was lying there helpless. I had to take her to hospital, I

paid the bill, took her to the police station and also took her home to the parents

and when I went to the hospital she was just treated like any other patient and that

was all. If we had the centre like this in this place we could have taken the girl to

such a specialized place and her case could have been handled well because apart

from the physical harm that she got I tend to believe because she is sort of insane

that case would also have been handled in a specialized manner. Makueni is

categorized in Kenya as an ASAL area whereby, ASAL means arid and semi-arid

land and therefore as such, poverty levels are high. There is also misuse of alcoholic

drinks and there is also some retrogressive cultural practices like forced marriages,

early marriages and of course female genital mutilation is also practiced in some

areas and also ignorance and illiteracy is also rampant in our County and therefore

you expect all these injustices to be there.

Mr. Speaker it is also my recommendation and suggestion that we should have such

a centre. It will also beat logic that every other time you are taking us to benchmark

and also to study in these developed countries. I would say that in every developed

country where we have had the opportunity to go they do things in specialized ways

and I do not see why we should continue doing things in general ways while we are

spending a lot of money to go and benchmark in other countries where they do

things in specific and specialized ways. I therefore I really support the passage of

this Motion. Again, this Motion has been brought by a lady Hon. Member in this

House—it is also a way of empowering our women because this Motion was well

researched and the owner knows where she is taking us to. Thank you.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): That is all Members. I call upon the Mover to

reply.

Hon. Janet Kitunga: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this opportunity. I really

appreciate the Members who have stood to support this Motion. I am so

overwhelmed and I really feel significant in this House. Thank so much Hon.


March, 2015



Members. I am appreciating Hon. Keli for his observation when he said gender

based violence does not target women only but men are also at risk. We have had

cases of young boys who have been sodomized. We have had men who have been

beaten by their wives however they do not talk about it. It is high time we

encourage our people at the Ward level to come up and speak out to the problems

that are facing them. I really thank Hon. Mutua who has also gone to an extent of

mentioning the dominant cultures which are exercised to arbitrate and cleanse

survivors of gender based violence. He has also given us examples of the same and

he also mentioned that men are violated and mentioned an organization which is

addressing gender based violence which is subjected to men. It is called Men

fighting gender inequality (MEGEN). I thank Hon. Caroline Munanie who has

articulated Article 26, 27 and 29 of the Constitution of Kenya, 2010 which do respect

the human rights. She also recognized the stigma which surrounds gender based

violence.

Special thanks to Hon. Nzilili who has given us many examples and he has also

shared with us the experiences which he has gone through. He also confirmed there

is need for a gender based violence recovery centre following the cases of gender

based violence which he has assisted. I thank Hon. Mwau who has also shared

examples from his area of work and he has also reminded me of the availability of

ambulances which are in the county and they can be used for rescue if need be. He

also said that boys and men are sexually abused and I agree with him because I have

assisted survivors of the same. I thank Hon. Mwalali who also confirmed that cases

of gender based violence are rampant. Some are reported and others are not; he

also said the media does report most of the cases and he insisted that we lack

services to address the same in our health institutions. Thank you very much

Mheshimiwa Malinda who emphasized on the stigma. He said that gender based

violence affects men and women differently and indeed men do not talk about their

problems. They keep it to themselves and at the end of the day they become more

affected by depression than women. He also reminded me that Nairobi Women’s

Hospital does addresses gender based violence for both men and women. He also

told us same services should devolve to the Counties and should be 24 hour services.

I thank Hon. Raymond who has really made me amused-she has raised the issue of

bestiality and it is real. Honestly it is not only in Kithungo/Kitundu-the cases are all

over. We are hearing them through the local radios so they are there. She has also

shared an example of incest; a woman who is being sexually violated by her sons.

That is to confirm that gender based violence is real. I thank Hon. Ndungi who has

reminded us of the conventions which address or give awareness to human rights


March, 2015



and I have SEDO in mind. SEDO has done a lot of work on that. You have also said

that the gender based violence recovery centre will have a specialized way of

addressing gender based violence and that was my intention. He has also

mentioned the retrogressive cultural practices—he said and this is a challenge to all

of us that when this Honourable House facilitates financially for us to go for

benchmarking we should go to borrow the best practices so that we can come to

this County and do things differently. Thank you so much Hon. Ndungi.

Hon. Members I thank Hon. Mwenze who emphasized on the need for gender based

violence centre. He talked about trauma and about anti-trauma counselors because

counseling varies. There are trauma counselors in these centres and he also talked

about abuse of human rights of stripping people naked; either men or women. He

also said for the victims or survivors of gender based violence it is not their fault. He

emphasized that the cases are rampant and the men are really depressed because

they do not let out what is in their minds. Hon. Members I really thank you for

supporting this Motion and I am grateful. I thank the Speaker because you have

assisted us all through the session. As I stand here what you have talked about the

centre and your well wishes let us say let it be. I would say to the Chairman

Committee on Implementation that you to follow up this Motion to ensure that it is

implemented. Thank you very much Hon. Members.

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Thank you the Hon. Mover of the Mover of

the Motion although you have forgotten to thank those who had opposed you---

(Laughter) You are supposed to also recognize their sentiments—it is also necessary

and that is how you can be balanced but that notwithstanding I want to put the

question.

(Question put and agreed to)

ADJOURNMENT

Hon. Speaker (Stephen Ngelu): Hon. Members there being no other

business to be transacted the House stands adjourned until tomorrow Thursday 19th

March, 2015 at 2.30p.m.

(The House rose at 4.02 p.m)

Documents

MAKUENI COUNTY ASSEMBLY...Hon. Janet Kitung’a: Thank you Mr. Speaker for this opportunity. I beg to move the following Motion. Aware THAT Chapter 4 of the Constitution of Kenya,