Joe Morello - From Four Strings to a Four Piece[1]

8/13/2019 Joe Morello - From Four Strings to a Four Piece[1]

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photo by Jim Jacobus


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THE HISTORY ACCORDING TO JOE

I always liked percussion. So, it became

very easy. M y father wasnt too happy

when I told him I didnt want to play [vio-in] anymore.

Joe played vi olin in the Boston Symphony

when he was in hi s teens.

H e [Joes father] was paying for all

hose lessons for all those years. I just

started going for the drums. H e used to say

o me,Well, youll never make a nickel with

hose sticks. T he first tim e I played

Carnegie H all, he came down backstage

and there was a guard that came and said,

Theres a gentleman who says that hes

your father up here. I went out and said,

I ve never seen this man in my life. I was

just jok ing and said, Sure, I ll come out andget him.

M y first teacher was Joe Sefcik in

Springfield. H e played in the theater, in

Vaudeville. H e was very, very good. H e was

a good teacher and all-around percussion-

ist. I went with him for about three years.

H e really was great and became a very

close friend. Then I went to see [G eorge]

L arry Stone. I wanted to see Sanford

M oeller, [but] he didnt want to teach me.

H e said, I ts too far for you to come to N

York. So, I went to see Stone in Boston

was with him for two and a half to t

years. Then I ran into Billy G ladst

A gain, he didnt want to teach me. H e You dont need it. I said, Yeah I do, I w

to learn thattechnique. I took a few les

with him i n N ew York. When he wen

San Francisco he was playing M y

Lady at the opera house so, I was se

him every night during the month off th

had. H ed come to the apartment . . . an

was great, technically. H e put the w

thing together for me. I t was a very rel

way of playing. I was getting good re

with the teaching. Billy was the most s

The vision is always the same always the same.

I ve heard the story so many times the scene

comes to mind every time I think of Joe M orello.

t starts with this overall feeling that I get for the jazz

scene in N ew York in the 1950s. I think about all the

gigs that could be happening simultaneously on 52nd

Street: C ount Basie, Stan G etz, D izzy G illespie, Stan

K enton, D uke Ellington, Thelonius M onk, Bud Powell,

M ary Lou Williams, Charlie Parker, Terry G ibbs and so

on. A nd in the crowds watching could be any number

of stars: G ary C ooper, M arilyn M onroe, Frank Sinatra,

Joe Louis, M arlene D ietrich, A va G ardner, Sammy

D avis, Jr. or Sugar Ray Robinson. A nd in a smoky,

dimly-lit bar known as the H ickory H ouse the place

where in 1936 Buddy Rich really got his start playing

with Joe M arsala I see Joe M orello at a back table w

drumsticks in his hands. A circle of drummers s

rounds him; theyve come to see and hear one of

hottest new drumming talents, a man whose repu

tion is taking off. M orello is talking with the guys

showing some of his licks on a folded napkin on

table. Joe wows them as theyre getting a taste of w

they had hoped to see. A nd, in my mind, as I fade a

from this scene theres a glimmering, four piece, si

sparkle Ludwig kit on the stage waiting for Joe.

Joes reputation really took off during this period w

he was drumming for the M arian M cPartland Trio at

H ickory H ouse. A nd his talent brought D ave Brub

to the H ickory H ouse to see Joe. The rest is history.

by Stephen Gull ette

[email protected]

cover photo courtesy of Ludwi g Dr

From Four Stringsto a Four Piece


3/8- 10 -

spoken guy and k indest li ttle

man you ever wanted to

meet. H e was really a gentle-

man. You would never think

hat he could play like that,

but he could play. H e had

better chops than anybody on

a snare drum I m not talk-

ng about a jazz thing. I m

alk ing about a fast singlestroke roll. I t was just beauti-

ul the way he could do it. H e

was incredible. I t was just

effortless. H e kept saying,

You dont need it. A nd Id

say, Yes I do.

Joe spent many years practi c-

ng and honing his skills

playing with small groups

around New York. He remembers gett ing a call

when he was playing in guitar ist Johnny

Smiths group.

[Stan] K enton called me up. H e asked

me if I wanted to join the band for a month

o sub for Stan L evey. So I spoke to Johnny

Smith and said,G ee, I d like to do this. H e

said, Well you can come back when you

want to, he said, but get me a sub. So, I

did. I went out with Stan, [then] M arian

M cPartland called me at the time, she said,

Would you want to join the group? I said,

Possibly. We talked a li ttle bit and it just so

happened I got back I think it was twodays after the thing with K enton.A nd she

was going into the Blue N ote in Chicago, so

just got home and flew into Chicago and

worked with her for about three and half

years.

Others were after Joe, as well.

Benny G oodman wanted me to go with

him when Steve A llen was doing a movie

and they were going to open up at the

Starlight. I told Benny, I just dont sound

good with this band. Benny said, H ell theband cant keep time, we dont know what

were doing. I said N o, I just dont feel

comfortable with it. So, I stayed with

M arian for a while, then the Brubeck thing

came along, and a Tommy D orsey thing I

went and auditioned for Tommys band at

he Caf Rouge. Louie Bellson used to

come in and say, You got to do that [refer-

ring to playing with D orsey]. A nd Buddy

Rich said that; he said, You should audition

with that band. So I did. I auditioned. A nd

it was during the evening. The place was

crowded. I did a little drum thing, and did

about three or four tunes. A nd the manager

said, Tommy wants to take you out for

breakfast. I went out there and he said,

Youve got the job if you want it. But I

couldnt do it because the manager was

messing me up (which is a long story that I

wont go in to) . Tommy was really great.

I n that interim, I get a call from

Brubeck; he asked me if I d join his group.

H e said, C an you come over. We talked,

and he wanted me to sign a contract. I said,

N o, lets try it, because I m ight not likeyour group. Cause, in your group you got a

drummer back there that nobody can see.

A nd the bass player you cant see. A nd the

lighting is just on [you] and Paul. I said, I

dont want to play like that. You can get a

machine to do that. I want to grow and I

want to play have a chance to express

myself. So, I changed the whole routine of

the quartet. The reviews after that . . . it was

like a whole different group. H e [Brubeck]

said, Were doing a three month tour start-

ing in September. This was in July when we

negotiated, and he said, Send me atelegram and I ll send you back a confi rma-

tion. So it was all set. Then I get a call from

Tommy D orseys offi ce; the manager says,

Come on down to Brooks Brothers to get

your uniform. I said, I cant, I just signed

with Brubeck. H e said, You dont want to

play Birdland all your life. Look what we

did for Buddy Ri ch. I said, You didnt do

anything. Look what Buddy did for the

band. I would like to have played with the

band.

So thats what h

pened. Twelve and a

years later I was with

group [Brubeck] . I n

interim after that, I

doing a lot of work

The Ludwig D

Company. I did a lo

clinics. A s the gr

[Brubeck] got more polar and financially mor

you know . . . wed w

about three months

take a month off or e

two months and take

off. D uring those mo

off, Ludwig would sa

me Bill would say, W

you come to Europe

do 23 clini cs?So, I ve d

that two or three times, and my

accompanied me a couple times.

" Thats basically it."

THE HISTORY ACCORDIN G TO DA

BRUBECK

I was able to contact Dave Brubeck a

was traveling to an engagement. We were

able to speak briefly, but th is is what he ha

say about Joe.

Joe was playing at the H ickory H o

with M arian M cPartland. I was look inga drummer to replace Joe Dodge.

M orello was the first East Coast music

had in my band. Paul [D esmond] told

should hear this wonderful drumm

went to see Joe. H ere was this drum

who played with brushes all night.

played beautifully.

The first night I featured him was a

Blue Note in Chicago. Joe knocked ev

one out. H e got a standing ovation.

didn' t li ke it because Joe had played

sticks on a full drum k it. H e wanted Jodo more accompaniment stuff

brushes. Paul said, 'Joe goes or I do.' I

'Paul, he's not going.' So, the next nig

didn't know what was going to hap

Then they walk in the door together.

Fini shing our conversation, I asked Da

he could sum up his years wi th Joe. He sa

I consider him one of my best frie

H e always wi ll be.

photocourtesyof

Drum

Wor

kshop


4/8- 11 -

EARLY TENSION IN THE BRUBECK

CAMP

Joe remembers having to iron out a few

things with Brubeck when the group first

star ted playi ng.

O ther drummers that they [Brubeck]

had, they would just keep them i n the

shadows and [the drummers] would keepime and just . . . not do anything. A

drummer never took a four bar break. A nd

he bass player never took a bass solo. So,

when I went with the group, N orman Bates

was the bass player; he started tak ing cho-

ruses and that was unheard of. O f course

Paul didnt like that, he thought he was a

big star. The group used to be billed as The

Brubeck Q uartet featuring Paul D esmond,

so I just said, H ey, lets have some recogni-

ion here recognize everybody on the

marquee. Thats the way it should be. Paul

had a little ego problem, but he got over it.

H e didnt talk to me for about two months,

but he came around.

ON BRUBECK ENDI NG

Paul was sick. H e didnt last long: he

had cancer. D ave called me up about two or

hree months after and said, D o you want

o go to M exico? I said, N o. I got so sick

when I went there once. So, he would use

other drummers every once and a while. I

didnt want to travel much anymore. A nd I

started doing these clinics. The clinics were

very good. In the States, I would do maybe

hree clinics and then have two days off. A llhe plane fares were taken care of. M y wife

would travel with me if she wanted to. The

company paid for i t. A nd they also paid for

somebody to take care of the drums. I t was

a joy. I t was different, and I was on my own.

Financially, it was very rewarding. A nd the

quartet after a while . . . everyone got tired

of it after twelve and a half years, three

and four months at a time of one-

nighters.

M ARIAN M CPARTLAN D

Marian was more than happy to talk to me

about Joe. She has fond memori es of their years

playi ng, as well as the years of their fr iendship.

The first time he sat in with me . . . he

didnt look lik e a drummer. H e looked like

a chemist or something with the crew cut,

the glasses and the coat. O f course, when

he played I was flabbergasted. I couldnt

wait to hire him. I already had a good

drummer, but he had already left to go play

with Sauter-Finnegan. This means I was

free to hire Joe. A nd then . . . I ve never let

Brubeck forget i t . . . that he hired Joe away

from me [laughs]. I still k id him about that.

H e and Paul D esmond used to come intothe club. I used to say to Joe, Isnt i t nice

that they come in to hear the trio? A ll the

time, he was planning to steal my drummer

[ laughs] . But Joe, he had to go because he

was getting countrywide, worldwide atten-

tion. I mean, he really was very loyal, but he

just had to go somewhere. We were getting

awards for small group of the year. A nd he

was getting ads [endorsements] . H e won

the D own Beat new star award while he

was with me. Benny G oodman wanted him

to go with his group. Bu

didnt want to do that.

Brubeck wanted him. A

think D ave was able to d

those time signature th

because of Joe. Joe was

to play in 5/4, 7/5, 6/19

number you want. H e

played all kinds. H e c

play any time signaturewanted. I dont think

[Brubeck] could have c

out with some of th

thi ngs if Joe hadnt b

there. I dont know ano

drummer who could h

played all those time sig

tures so precisely and

accurately with so m

depth of feeling.

Paul was very jealous of him. T

wound up being friendly after a while

it took a whi le because Paul was use

being the big star in the group. When

came along, he really did become the

in the group. H e really did. A nd Paul

didnt have to take a back seat or

thing but I guess he had to share s

time. Eventually they became friends

just had to come around because there

no stopping Joe at that point. H e was r

raring to go. H e became the number

drummer, and he got raves everywhere

Vintage Drummer: D o you remember

specific instance where Joe did somet

on the drums that just amazed y

A nything particular stand out in y

mind?

Every night. To me, he always pl

great. H e had a great standard of playin

was very inspiring to always be aro

somebody like that.

I remember once I was driving to

H ickory H ouse in my car. Suddenly, awent by at a furious rate. Joe was in

practicing like mad on a practice pad in

cab. I broke up. I t just looked so funny.

Joe would sometimes be late for g

A nd he would always have these ter

excuses. I remember this one time

showed up late and said, The train b

up.The humor was the excuse.A nytime

was late after that, we would always

The train must have blown up.

I dont know another drummer who could

have played all those time signatures so

precisely and so accuratelywith so

much depth of feeling

photocourtesyofL

udwig

Drum

Co.


5/8- 12 -

There was this one show that Joe was

playing with D ave. Paul and Joe got into

some type of argument before the show,

and Paul had been really nasty and said

something lik e, Youre the worst drummer

ve ever heard or some other horrible

nsult [ remember, Pauls the one that got

Brubeck to come see Joe at the H ickory

H ouse] . A nd Joe got mad and wouldnt

play the gig. They were going to play the

gig wi thout him. Joe was up in the dressing

room sulking, and he wouldnt come down

o play. So, he opened up a cupboard, and

I guess they were playing in a church) he

ound all these priestly robes in the cup-

board. A nd he got dressed up with robe

and hat and came down and walkedonstage saying, Bless you, my children. O f

course, D ave had to laugh, and the whole

place broke up.

Vintage Drummer: What drummers do

you remember Joe admiring?

Well, he liked Shelley M ann a lot. A nd,

of course, Buddy. A nd I m sure, Roy

H aynes. Sid C atlett. Jo Jones.

Vintage Drummer: A ny last words on Joe?

I really love Joe. A fter being friends all

hese years, I love him as a friend and as a

person.

A fter speaking with M arian about the

priestly robe incident, I had to get Joes

ake on what happened. Joe remembers

comi ng onstage saying, Praise the Lord,

Praise the Lord, and waving to the crowd.

Brubeck almost shit, he said. I t was all a

oke. Steve Foster, who was my set up man

at the time, he was with me. We were in

Chapel H ill or somewhere. We were in back

and . . . hey, look at these robes. A nd I say,

H ey, lets do that. The k ids [some group]

were playing, and after them we were

introduced. D ave went out, then G ene

went out, and then I went out, Bless you

all. I t was just a funny thing. D ave didnt

think it was too funny, but thats o.k .

BILL CROW

Bil l Crow played bass in t he M ari an

M cPart land Trio. Here are a few things he had

to say when I spoke to him about Joe.

I used to play around with drumming,

and when Joe wasnt using his sticks I

would practice with them. I practiced his

finger technique with the left hand until I

got pretty good at doing it. A nytime people

were talking about Joes finger technique

hed say, A h, anybody can do that, its easy.

H ed hand me the sticks and say, Even my

bass player can do that. A nd I d play that

roll with my left hand.

When people started using double bass

drums in their setups, like Louie Bellson

and some of those other guys, I remember

the N Y rep for G retsch would come around

and try to get Joe to switch over and startusing G retsch drums. They would try to

entice him by offering him all kinds of

drums, saying things like, We can set you

up with a big double bass drum ki t. I

remember Joe saying he hadnt heard any-

body doing anything special with two bass

drums that he couldnt do wi th one so

what would he need two bass drums for.

H ed turn them down, and theyd keep

comi ng back trying to get him to use

G retsch.

O nce Joe got me to go to the Zild

factory to help him handpick some c

bals. H e asked me to bring a bass; he

after hitting cymbals for a while they

start to sound the same unless you h

something to play them off of. So we w

set up and play a little for him to try

cymbals. A fter that we went over to G e

Stones house to visit, and I could tell

M r. Stone was really happy and excitesee Joe him being a star pupil and al

one point M r. Stone tried to get Joe to

some with him, but Joe wouldnt do

could tell Stone really wanted to pl

asked Joe when we were leaving why

wouldnt play. H e said he didnt wan

embarrass him self. H e had that m

respect for Stones playing and for Ston

SOM E QUESTIONS FOR JOE

Vintage Drummer: The first drum

that you recorded was Sounds of

Loop?

Joe Morell o: Thats right.

Vintage Drummer: The title referrin

the Loop i n Chicago? That was on

album Jazz Impressions of the USA ?

Joe Morell o: Thats right.

Vintage Drummer: D id you go to I

with Brubeck?

Joe Morell o:Yeah, it was a M iddle Eas

tour. What happened was we starte

London. A fter London we went

Scotland, then back to London, the

Paris, then to I taly, then to G ermany, o

Poland through the Brandenburg G

They had us on a midnight train. I t

controlled by Communism, so we were

photo

byClay

Greene

h b C l

G

photocourtesyofL

udwigDrum

Co.


6/8- 13 -

of the first groups to play behind the I ron

Curtain. We were in Poland for around ten

days . . . from there we went to India.

Vintage Drummer: D id any of the

polyrhythmic ideas the quartet used come

rom any musical ideas originating in

ndia?

Joe Morello: That [doi ng polyrhythms]

was very easy for me. Thats why Brubeckik ed it. Theres nothing you could throw

out that I couldnt handle. N ot that I was

anything special. I ts just that I used to do

hat when I was in my hometown. I used to

ove to do polyrythms. I could do maybe

three or four [ rhythms at once]. Whatever I

felt like doing. So, he loved that part of it.

H e couldnt do it with other drummers.

Vintage Drummer: Where did you start

developing your finger technique?

Joe Morello: Billy G ladstone was instru-

mental in that. Louie Bellson used to use it

a lot, but just a little differently than I did.We became good friends. When he would

come to Springfield with Ellington, hed

come over to the house. Louie was a sweet

guy. Buddy was very influential. I was very

fortunate to work out with him a few times.

I ts so strange because I never asked

how do you do anything. Some of t

people have horror stories about Bu

but I tell ya, the guy was always a ge

man with me. H e always started tal

drums. H ed say, What do you think of

guy, or What do you think of that g

A nd hed say, H e cant do the stuff we

do.

I cant play lik e you, I said.

You can do all the shit that I can do

said.

continued on pa

photocourtesyof

Ludw

igDrum

Co


7/8- 22 -

N o, I cant, I said.

D ont give me that humble stuff,

Buddy said, you know when you play

good.

Well, I cant play lik e you.

Why do you say that? Buddy asked.

Well, youre too short, I said.

Wed go back to his room and start talk -

ng, and before you know i t hed come out

and say, " Look at these sticks that theyre

making for me. Check em out." Before you

know it were banging on a practice pad.

H e had a couple of practice pads there. H e

said he never did [practice], but of course

he did. H e was a very fine technician a

great drummer no question.

Buddy used to say to me, there were a

couple of drummers that just tried to copy

him to a tee. H ed say, I d love to hear so-

and-so play like so-and-so. H ed do

damage to people that tried to play like

him. Cause you couldnt do what he was

doing. That was his thing the way his

mind worked.You could imi tate the thing, if

you wanted, but I think one of the reasons

we got along is that I didnt try to ape him.

just did my own stuff. I just played the

way I always played. I think thats probably

why we got along very well. You know wecan all play single strok e rolls and get the

bass drum going, but is doesnt mean

youre going to play like him. There are a lot

of roads out there and you just play the way

you feel. H e was a great inspiration. A nd

G ene [K rupa] was also when I was a young

kid. People lik e Jo Jones, Philly Joe and

Blakey we all played together some-

where. I ts like a brotherhood of drummers.

N ow you got k ids out there like Dave

Weckl, Vi nnie C olaiuta hes a great

drummer, a marvelous drummer. A nd I

remember people that go way back, likeD on Lamond. H e contributed so much to

drumming. H e changed the whole style of

playing with a big band a great, great

drummer. I ll call him up and see how hes

doing. H e was one of the few people that

was really nice to me when I went to N ew

York. When I first went down to N ew York

some of the guys were lik e, You play pretty

good, but then they didnt want you to

ake any work from them. I t was kind of

strange. A nd I can understand that. I ve

never really felt that way. But D on was

really nice. H e really helped me a lot. H e

gave me some nice advice. A nd hes a won-

derful guy.

Vintage Drummer: What kinds of projects

do you have going right now?

Joe Morello: Well, I m playing with my

group. I have a quartet that I ve recordedwith. Were going to do some more record-

ing. Well probably play a few clubs around

here in N ew York, probably Birdland. I dont

really like the traveling thing much any-

more.

I m work ing on a second M aster Studies

book. A nd I want to put out my Rudimental

Jazz book again . . . and then theres the

N ew D irections in Rhythm book. I m want-

ing to put that out again.

Rick Mattingly worked wi th Joe on the fi rst

M aster Studies book. I bumped into Rick at a

recent PAS event. Rick sums up the experience

by saying:

Rick M attingly: I was fortunate enough to

spend a lot of time with Joe M orello in the

early '80s when I served as editor for hi s

book M aster Studies. I felt as though I had

tapped into one of the main arteries of per-

cussion history as Joe talk ed about his

experiences wi th such legendary players

and teachers as Billy G ladstone and G eorgeLawrence Stone. I was also impressed by

how much Joe was respected by classical

percussionists, many of whom had little

respect for the average drumset player. But

there is certainly nothing average about

Joe M orello. H e is one of the great musi-

cians of all time, and as we went through

the various technical exercises that made

up the book, he always stressed that tech-

nique means nothing unless it is used to

produce a musical result.

If you talk to many people that know Joe,these types of recollections about Joe as a per-

son and a musician are not uncommon.

Vintage Drummer: Whos someone that

you didnt get the chance to play with that

you would have loved to have played with?

Joe Morello: In a small group, probably

D izzy G illespie. D izzy lik ed my playing a

lot and we got to jam a couple times. H e

was a great player. Wi th the big bands, I

Joe M orello continued ...


8/8

hink probably The Woody H erman Band

boy those days are gone. I would have lik ed

o have done some of that. But everything

worked out good. I have no regrets.

Vintage Drummer: H ow do you feel

about the music scene these days?

Joe Morello: I think jazz music has always

been meant for fringe audiences, notmeant for the popular audiences.You could

put the Philharmonic, the Boston

Symphony, put Brubeck and M iles D avis ( if

he was still around) in Shea Stadium or

G iants Stadium and youd probably get

8,000; but if you put Bon Jovi in there, in

wo hours youve sold out with 80,000 peo-

ple. So, you can figure that out. Thats the

way it goes. Youre mainly dealing wi th a

bunch of kids, you know.

Vintage Drummer: What happened with

you and Ludwig?

Joe Morell o: The company was being sold.

D ifferent companies were after me to go,

ike Yamaha and all these different compa-

nies. When Bill sold the company, he said,

I ts not mine anymore. H ed still appear at

he N A M M show and stand in front of the

ympani and talk, but it still wasnt his

company. So, I said things are getting tight,

business wasnt good. A nd the Japanese

businesses were swamping everybody out.

So, D W came along and they made me an

offer. A nd I decided to give them a shot to

see what would happen. I t was about seven

or eight years ago. N ow D W seems to be

riding the wave. Everyone has their turn.

Years ago it was Slingerland, Ludwig and

G retsch. Those were the only three compa-

nies. But today, there are 50 drum

companies, you know.

Vintage Drummer: Whats been one of

the ni cest k its you ever played?

Joe Morello: The Ludwig sets were real

beautiful. I always liked sparkle silver

because everyone was using marine pearl.

I t was so funny. The first night I played with

M arian in C hicago, Bill L udwig came down

with a bunch of people. I ts a long story, but

its in the Ludwig book i f you ever want to

read it. H e came down with a bunch of

people. A nd my drums were kind of old.

They were marine pearl, but they had

turned yellow from playing down by the

seashore a li ttle rusty on the lugs and

everything. So, what happens is . . . when I

went with the company, Bill says, Why

dont we take these old drums back and

give you a new set? A nd I said, Wow

was amazed. A nd he says, So what c

do you want? I said, Sparkle silver.

said, We use that for parade drums. A

said, Thats o.k., I want it. Well, two y

later that drumset was the second big

selling: the sparkle silver. A nd that

amazing. Bill said, D amnit, you were r

I guess.

Vintage Dr ummer: A ny parting word

Joe Morell o: Well, for different drumm

out there, I hope their careers will b

healthy as mi ne has been. The profes

has been very good for me, and I ve trie

be very good to it. A ny kind of advice

young drummers would be to keep pra

ing, stay with i t and dont be discourag

Vintage Drummer:You feel pretty fulf

having picked up the sticks after the vio

Joe Morell o: I think that was the best t

I ever did.

I think jazz music has always been meant

for fringe audiences,not meant for thepopular audiences

- 23 -

Ludwig Vistalite pattern C

Jazzette k it wi th 18 bass drum,

rack tom, 14 floor tom, 3 x 13 sn

and matching canister throne.

O wned by Frankie V.

Ludwig catalog photos suppli ed by Clay Gre

Documents

Joe Morello - From Four Strings to a Four Piece[1]