Embed Size (px)
Citation preview
Grace Tinucci - GT Ayesha Shariff - AS
Interview of Grace Tinucci
Interviewed on June 19, 2002
Interviewed by Ayesha Shariff of the Minnesota Historical Society
for the Open House Project
AS: Will you say your name, please?
GT: Grace Tinucci.
AS: Today is June 19,2002. I just want to ask you some questions about what you remember about your husband and what you remember about the house that he lived in on Hopkins Street.
GT: Like I say, I knew him when he lived there just, maybe, about a year. Then, when I met his folks, then, in 1933, we got married.
AS: You met in what year?
GT: We used to go dancing a lot. There used to be a dance hall up on Wabasha, way up by the Capitol there. We used to go every Saturday night and that's where I met him. He was a wonderful dancer. That was in 1930. Then, we went together and, then, in 1933, we got married.
AS: Our records show that he was living in the house on Hopkins Street. ..
GT: At that time.
AS: ... at that time. Do you remember ever visiting him in the house on Hopkins Street?
GT: I think a couple times. But, I just met his mother and, then, one time, I was there for a dinner.
1
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
AS: Can you tell me-I know it's a long time ago--do you remember what it looked like when you walked in the door?
GT: Well, I went in the back door and there was a kitchen. She was a wonderful cook, you know. She used to cook for weddings and stuff. She was a wonderful cook. I walked in the kitchen ... very clean, oh, neat people. It was just an ordinary kitchen but very nice. You know, it wasn't raggedy or anything. It was very nice in there. Then, they had a dining room and, then, they had a living room. The bedrooms were upstairs.
AS: Do you remember what the walls looked like or what the cabinetry looked like?
GT: Oh, god! I didn't pay no attention to that. Regular, you know. She had a lot of old stuff from the old country, you know, but I didn't pay much attention to them. I was only about eighteen, nineteen. I was nineteen when I got married. No, I wasn't too .. .in the house at all.
AS: Do you remember what she served you for dinner that night?
GT: Oh, yes, I can remember. [laughter] She had Italian food, regular Italian food and everything. She set the table very fancy and everything. She always did it that way, even when she didn't have company. Then, after the meal, she'd serve the salad last. She said, "That's when you're supposed to eat your salad." I used to laugh then. After we cleaned the table off and everything, she'd serve little demitasse cups with coffee, with a little what-you-call-it in there. She was a very fancy lady. She was a very good cook. Yes, I learned a lot from her. Yes.
The father, he worked in terrazzo, like I told you. Then, the Depression and they had to go on relief. All their money went and everything, you know. Then, they got on their feet. Then, she died and, then, he died. Isalena went to California to live.
AS: Isabel?
GT: Isalena.
AS: Who is Isalena?
GT: She's the oldest one.
AS: Okay.
GT: She got married and went to California and lived. I didn't know too much about their family. You know what I mean? It wasn't just. ..
When I met my husband, he said, "That's the girl I'm going to marry." I didn't know him too well. I thought, oh, god! On Payne Avenue, they used to have a bunch of guys that had all kinds
2
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
of nicknames and stuff. So, they were like little gang kids, but they weren't mean or anything, but they liked good times, you know.
I'm trying to think of all the memories. I've had so much in my life now. All my family is gone and I had to take of my brother and my sisters and all that. Now, I've got another one in a nursing home and, then, another one that's not too well. But, we're the only three left from nine children. And father and mother, they're all gone. Everybody is gone. So ...
AS: You were saying that you remembered that they had to go on relief at some point?
GT: Yes.
AS: That was during the Depression. Was that during the time that they lived in the house?
GT: Yes. Terrazzo wasn't...they didn't have no jobs and stuff. Yes, it was bad-but they got on their feet.
AS: Was it hard on them to do that?
GT: Yes, well, see... There was one store on the comer. It was called Frisco ... Dora Frisco. She used to have a grocery store in that and she trusted my mother-in-law and she used to charge. Then, when my mother-in-law died-geez, I don't remember the year either-we paid up all the bills. We gave her all the money.
AS: Which comer was that?
GT: That was on... You know as you come on Payne Avenue, it was on the left hand side. It was right on the comer.
AS: Of Hopkins and Payne?
GT: Hopkins and Payne. Morellis lived across the street and, then, there was another Italian family that lived kitty-comer and, then, the rest of it, I don't know. There was all different kinds of people that lived there, but there was mostly Italians on that Hopkins Street, I think. What was the name of that. .. ? Lena Y arusso and let's see, who was the other ones?
AS: Did you ever meet the family that lived in the house at the same time, the Cucchiarellas?
GT: Cucchiarella?
AS: When your husband's family lived in the house on Hopkins Street, on the other side of the house ...
GT: Oh, you mean Michelina?
3
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
AS: Michelina and her family moved there later. I think she moved there in 1931, so, yes. Did you know her family?
GT: Yes, I knew her and I knew her husband. Her mother and her father, I never did meet her mother and father. I just heard about them, you know. My mother-in-law used to talk with them. In fact, my sister-in-law, Isabel, she was married to Frank Marone and he used to board in Michelina's house.
AS: Before he was married?
GT: Yes. He boarded there and that's where she met him and they got married. Yes.
AS: Do you know anything about how the Tinuccis came to the United States, how your husband's parents came to the United States or when?
GT: Gosh, I don't know. They came over on the boat, I guess, like my mother did. My mother did that, too.
AS: Was he born in the United States, you husband?
GT: Oh, yes, oh, yes. Isalena, I think was born in Italy. I'm pretty sure. She was the oldest. Yes, I think she was born in Italy.
AS: Do you know where they lived when they first came to St. Paul?
GT: I can remember. .. now, I was thinking it over. You know, in downtown st. Paul...you probably don't know. There was where Schaak's used to be and there was all kinds of stores there, years ago, and there was St. Mary's Church downtown. Down in there, there was a row of they called it the Flats. They were housing and I can remember it was all wood and they had wooden steps to go up and I think that's where they landed, where they moved the first time. I can't remember any place else that they lived, you know.
AS: Then, they moved to Hopkins Street. Do you remember where they moved after they left Hopkins Street?
GT: Let's see where did they move from Hopkins? They lived on Payne Avenue, but I don't think it was ... Then, we lived on Edgerton [Street]. I was married to Al in 1933 when they lived on Edgerton and Payne Avenue. Payne Avenue is the house where we got married, because the mother made the dinner and everything. Then, we moved to Edgerton. That was the last. Then, we moved in our own little apartment, not apartment but upstairs on Minnehaha [Avenue]. We moved up there; Al and I did. Then, in 1941, we had our little boy. That's the only boy we had. It took me ten years to get him. [laughter] Oh, yes.
4
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
They were nice families. All the people were nice around there. They were all nice families. We used to go to Christ Child [Society-Merrick Community Center] and play volleyball. They had everything down there.
AS: Is that while you were dating?
GT: No, that was after I was married. Oh, yes, we used to go down there once a week. They had sewing and cooking and volleyball and they had different things, you know. Then, one summer, when my boy was born, then, he wanted to go to camp. He went with them down there, but he said, "Mother, don't ever send me again. I don't want to go." Because he was fussy. He wouldn't go in a bathroom to nobody's house or anything like that. He said, "No, I don't want to go no more." He's real fussy about that.
AS: I think lots of kids are.
GT: Yes, he didn't want to go in anybody's bathroom or anything like that. So, I had to take him home all the time.
AS: Do you remember why your husband's family moved out of the house at 470 Hopkins Street?
GT: I don't know why they moved out. Isabel was living with them at the time. She didn't get married till me moved on Payne Avenue. I don't know why they moved from there. I don't remember. Maybe she couldn't make the steps anymore, 'cause, you know, she was older.
AS: His mother [unclear]?
GT: Mother-in-law, yes. I really don't know.
AS: There were steps going into the house or ... ?
GT: Yes, into the house and, then, there were steps to go upstairs to the bedrooms, you know, too. But, of course, there were steps on Payne Avenue. There were still steps there. They had to go upstairs there. I can't remember all that. I'm losing my memory.
AS: That's a long time ago. You're doing great. You're doing fabulous.
GT: Oh, I don't know.
AS: Did Isabel have children?
GT: Yes, she had two.
AS: Are her children still in the area?
5
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
GT: Yes. They're married ... Phyllis and Carol. But, the only time I seen them is when their mother died. They don't contact me. I've called them and everything; they don't call me at all.
AS: Is their name still Marone or do they have different names now?
GT: Well, they're married. Yes, they're married. Let's see... I can't remember what their names are. Phyllis, she's divorced. She's married another time; I know that. Carol's still married. They've got children. I don't know how many they got. I never met their children. They were funny; they never called me or anything. Pauline, she died in a nursing home. She was in a nursing home. She was in almost her nineties when she... She never was married.
AS: Did she and Isalena live in the house on Hopkins Street? Did all four of them live in the house on Hopkins Street?
GT: Yes, I think they did. I think, years ago, they did, yes. Then, Isalena got married. I think she met the guy, you know. I don't know too much about... They never talked about it, so I don't know. I can't remember all that. It's too far gone. I've got to remember from day to day. [chuckles]
AS: Can you tell me a little bit about what your husband's job was?
GT: At first, he was always in the pop business. He worked at Squirt on Payne Avenue and there's a little building by Harnrn's [Brewing], in the front of Harnrn's there. He worked there for years and years and years. Then, the company sold, I don't know how many times, but he was always working. They closed up and, then, he went to 7-Up on Payne Avenue. They was on Payne A venue when he went there. Then, they moved to Minneapolis and that's when he retired, from Minneapolis.
AS: Did you always, after you were married, live on the East Side then on Minnehaha?
GT: Yes. Yes, we always lived on the East Side.
AS: Is that where you lived before you got married?
GT: No. Before I got married, I lived on Arch Street. That was over by the Capitol. I lived on Arch Street. When I was little, I used to live down on Thirteenth Street. But, then, my dad and my mother, they moved up on Arch. That's where we all were, six girls and three boys in a fiveroom house. Can you imagine? One bathroom. But we made it. Didn't have much, but we were happy. I can remember my mother sitting around and she was very religious and she'd say the Rosary and stuff. I don't know if you're a Catholic or not. Then, she'd sit and tell us stories about the old country.
AS: What was your ethnicity? What was the old country?
6
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
GT: Italy.
AS: Okay, so you're also Italian?
GT: Yes, we're all Italians. Yes, from Italy. She'd tell us stories. When she was a young girl about sixteen years old, her mother died and left two kids, one little girl, I think it was, and a boy and she had to be the mother. My father was married and had a boy ten years old and his wife died, so then they got married and she took my brother in, John, and she raised him as her own. She was very good to him. I can remember she was real good to him. Oh, then there was Joe and Sammy and, then, there's my sisters, Dena, Sarah, and Sam, Caroline, Rosie, and Elizabeth. Elizabeth was the baby and, then, me.
AS: So where were you in the birth order?
GT: Oh, let's see. My brother John was the one that my mother took when she got married. Then, there was Joe. Then, there was Sara. Then, Dena. Let's see, Sammy and, then, me. Well, there was a little boy in between us, but he died when he was born, you know. Then, Rosie. Then, Caroline and Elizabeth.
AS: So you were kind of in the middle then?
GT: Yes, in between the boys and the two older girls, somewhere in there.
AS: Can you tell me anything more about your husband Alfred's parents, what you remember about them, what they were like, what they used to like to do?
GT: Oh, my father-in-law, he liked to go pick mushrooms and he'd be out in the woods all the time. My husband was like that. He loved to fish and hunt and he used to go hunting with his father a lot. They used to go hunting.
AS: Where would they go?
GT: I don't know. They found places. I can't remember where they went. What else now? She would cook. She would do a lot of cooking and that and she did cleaning. Then, she used to cook for a restaurant, too, up on Payne Avenue, Gino's. Remember Gino's? She used to cook there.
AS: Was she paid for that?
GT: She got paid for that, yes.
AS: Do you know-if she was doing that before you got married?
7
Grace T inucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
GT: No, that was after. Yes, that was after.
AS: Do you know where they came from in Italy? I know a lot of people that lived in that area came from the same ... ?
GT: Yes, up in the northern part, Tuscanys. They were Tuscanys.
AS: Was that different from your family then?
GT: Yes. My mother and father came from Palermo down in the boot. [chuckles] Sicily. Sicilia [sounds like On-zay], they used to call it. Yes. I can't remember too much about it. There's just been so much going on all through the years. They were hardworking people though; I know that.
AS: You were telling me on the telephone that Torello Tinucci worked in terrazzo and that he laid tile. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
GT: He used to work for ... what's that...in Minneapolis. I think they're still going. I don't know. Not Grazzini but. .. The Arrigonis used to be in that, too. Like I told you, they laid tile down in the courthouse there. Every time I go there and I walk over the tile, I think of my fatherin-law. [laughter] He was a good man. He was good at that. Yes. But, then, everything went cap/uey when the Depression ...
AS: How did he feel about losing work during the Depression?
GT: They had to go on relief then, what I told you. Yes, but then they got out of it. Then, she used to buy her regular stuff at Carbone's. Carbone's used to be down on Seventh Street. They used to go there and get their Italian stuff, what she needed. Then, she used to take care of a Carbone woman, too. She was a hardworking lady, very hardworking lady.
AS: Do you remember her ever baking bread in ovens?
GT: Oh, yes, in their stoves, regular stoves they had. They didn't have no ... There used to be a woman up on Fred Street, they called it, that used to make bread in the outside oven. They had a brick ... and, oh, everybody used to come there, even the politicians used to go there and get the bread. But, then, they closed her up because it was ... I don't know what rules they had. She was very clean. It was good bread, very good bread. We missed that when she had to close up. [chuckles] I don't know if that house is still there. I know there used to be Lincoln School, but they tore that down. That's where my husband went to school and the kids went to school. They tore that down and they built some apartments there and, then, there was a street they called Fred Street. It was like an alley, but it was a street. She used to live on that one side. I don't know if that house is still there. I'll have to go see sometime. I like to go around where we used to live up on Arch Street by the Capitol there and see it. They tore the houses down when my mother and father were living there all the time. That was the first house they bought when they moved
8
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
from Thirteenth Street, you know. My father used to have a nice garden kept up and all the peonies he used to put in and all that stuff. But, they tore it down because it was old. The state took it, I think, or the city, whatever. You know how they used to do. So, my sister took my mother and I took my father because they couldn't go out and buy another house or rent another house and stufflike that. They were too old. Then, my mother, she lost her memory, but she was still going, you know. I had my father. I was working at the time and I quit my job to take care of my father and I lost all my rights and everything there then. But, I didn't care about that 'cause I took care of my dad. I had him about a year and he died. He was lonesome. He used to call my mother on the phone, you know. She'd say, "Where are you?" We could hear her, you know. [laughter] Then, we'd take him up there to visit and stuff. Yes.
Do you remember Damiani's Store on the corner? Well, I used to stop there to get the bus to go up to see my mother and dad when they lived up on Arch, after I was married. I used to buy all their Italian stuff there and bring it up to there. '
AS: Is that the store that you were saying where the Tinuccis got credit?
GT: No, no, that's Carbone's and Dora Frisco. That was on the corner of Hopkins and Payne.
AS: Dora Frisco?
GT: Yes. She was a little short lady. She reminded me of some lady that was on TV years ago. She was short and gray-haired.
AS: Do you remember whether Mrs. Tinucci had a garden in the back of the house?
GT: Yes, they did. I think they did. Like I say, I don't remember. They didn't have much space. There wasn't too much space back there, I don't think. They must have something because I know they always planted something, their tomatoes and stuff, 'cause she used to do a lot of canning.
AS: I know it's a long time ago, but do you remember how you felt when you walked into his house for the first time, what you were thinking, or what you were feeling?
GT: Well, when I first walked in there, he told his mother, "That's the girl I'm going to marry." I didn't say anything because I didn't know how she'd respond, you know. I didn't say nothing. I just went along. You know how ... I didn't want to be too outspoken or anything, because you never know what they would say or anything, you know. But, his mother told me, "The Tinucci family when they love somebody, they really love them. You got to make sure that you love him, too." That's true. He was the most lovable man. He was so good. He would never go to bed without kissing me and saying, "Goodnight." Never. Always. Then, in the morning, he'd get up and... Well, I'd always get up, 'cause I worked, too, you know. We worked together. But, that's the way it goes. He had Alzheimer's. He was in a nursing home for a year arid six months and I went every day from nine to three to see that he ate and everything. See, when you get old
9
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
what you go through? It's hard. Then, when they pass away, you sometimes say, "Well, I was relieved," but, I miss him. He had a good life. We worked together. He didn't know me at all. I used to go there everyday and he didn't know me at all. He would never say anything. He never talked. He'd just look, you know. I'd bring him all his fishing books ... when we used to go fishing and let him look at the pictures and see if he would say, "Who's this? Who's that?" He'd just look. He wouldn't say nothing. He was at Ramsey [ ] up on White Bear Avenue there, the county, and they were just wonderful to him. He had good care there. I could see it, 'cause every day, I was there. Clean. They'd wash him up. Every morning, they'd wash him up. Then, he'd get a bath once a week. Clean clothes. It was nice clean clothes. It was really nice. Then, they had a place where he used to go upstairs and they'd paint or plant. He used to do that. He'd do with his hands and, then, that was it. But, he wouldn't talk. He wouldn't say nothing. Even when he died, he just looked at me. He died peacefully though. I was glad of that. Yes.
But, it was so sudden. Even when we found out he had Alzheimer's... He always had a beautiful garden and lawn. He took care of his house so nice outside. After he would be all done with his work, he'd sit in the yard and just sit there and read and read and read. He loved to read. Then, all of a sudden one day, he got up and he used to take a walk every day till about three o'clock and, then, he'd come back. He'd go see some guys in a place over on Earl Street and he'd sit there and have a cup of coffee with them and he'd talk to them, 'cause he knew the people that owned it, you know, and, then, he'd come home. But, this one day, he went and it was wintertime and the snow and ice was ... and it was after four and he didn't come home and he didn't come home. I thought, my, god! where did he go? I had supper ready for him. So, I had to close the door and shut everything off and go look for him. Here he was walking down. He didn't know which way he was going and the snow and the ice... I said, "AI, how come you stayed so late?" He didn't say a word. He just walked home with me. And that was it, all of a sudden. My boy said, "Ma, it was so sudden for Dad. I don't know what happened." He just snapped, I suppose.
Then, I had him home for three months. I took care of him. I didn't sleep at all, 'cause he wouldn't sleep in his bed. He'd make his bed, unmake his bed, make his bed, unmake his bed. He wouldn't sleep. He wouldn't get into bed. He wouldn't sleep, just walk back and forth. That's all. I couldn't sleep because I didn't know what he was going to do, you know. For three months ... but, then, I got him downstairs one day and I made him sit on the steps and come down on his butt little by little. I put him in his recliner that he always sat in but, then, he wanted to get up and he fell. Then, two or three times, he fell. So, I had to call the paramedics all the time. He almost hit his head on the thing; I got scared. So the paramedic said, "We've got to take him to the hospital." So, we took him to the hospital. They were real nice, 'cause I used to get the same guys all the time. [laughter] He said, "Grace, you better put him in the hospital," so I did. Then, from then on, that was it. He had to go in a nursing home. It broke my heart, but I just thought, well, it was for the... My boy said, "Ma, you can't do that. It's too hard. It's too hard to take care of people like that. You've got to lift him. You've got to feed him. You've got to dress him. Y{)u've got to wash him." It was hard, but ldid it. So ... then, he was there for a year- and six months.
10
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
It broke us, but that was all right. A lot of money. Terrible. Now, I'm just living on my Social Security and the little bit of money I got for my house. That's all. The other money that we all had, had to go to the nursing home. So, that's what you got to think of when you... What you should do is ... Like a lot of people say, "Why didn't you give your money away?" I say, "What for?" We had to live, you know, and he liked to fish and hunt and went on trips and stuff. We had a car. I drove; he didn't. He wouldn't drive.
AS: How did he get to and from work? Did he walk?
GT: I took him. Then, when they moved to Minneapolis, he had to work nights then and I had to go pick him up about three o'clock in the morning. I used to drive all the way to Minneapolis and back. I took him all over. Yes.
[telephone rings - break in the interview]
AS: [unclear]
GT: When I met my husband? Well, like I said, it was at a dance hall is when I met him. That was in 1930. We used to go dancing all over; you know what I mean. He'd come up every night. My mother said, "Why don't he stay home?" [laughter] Then, after we were married, there was four couples, we used to go dancing every week. They're all dead now. Armeda is dead. She used to live in that house on Hopkins, you know the one in the next block. On that one comer where my husband lived on Hopkins, I think it's Brunson ...
AS: The Brunson House.
GT: Yes. There used to be a little shack there called Fatty Joe. He used to sell ice, bring ice all over. Do you... Yes? I remember that. He used to have a garden, too. Then, there was D' Aloias that lived on the comer. I remember that. I think he still lives there, the kid, the boy, the son. He's the only one left, I guess. Then, next to it was the Gagliardis-no, that was an old house from... Who lived in there before? Somebody well known lived in that house. But, then, the Gagliardis bought it and fixed it all up. The father and mother of Armeda and Tony, they lived across the street next to Lena Yarusso. Then, Tony Gagliardi's sister. .. what was her name now? Savina. She lived on the comer, across the street from there.
AS: Can you tell me a little bit more about Fatty Joe?
GT: Fatty Joe? Oh, he used to go around with a big wooden cart with wheels and pull it, like years ago, you know how the horses pulled those carts. He'd go from house to house and bring the ice. That's all I know of him. He was a nice man. [laughter] They used to call him Fatty Joe, I remember that.
11
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
Then, there was the D' Aloias. There was another family lived on the comer across the street, kitty-comer from the D' Aloias. What in the heck was their name now? One girl was Lucille. I can't think of their name. Then, there was Lillian Yekaldo. She lived across the street. They were related. I know her, 'cause I see her once in a while now. She lives way out on White Bear [ Avenue] behind the Rainbow [Foods] there.
AS: The D'Aloia family that lived on the comer was the [unclear] D' Aloia family?
GT: That D' Aloia family lived on the comer.
AS: That was a different family than Michelina's family?
GT: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, yes. Then, across from my husband's house where he was, they had a skating rink and they used to play ball there and stuff. Then, across the street from there, I can remember those houses along in there, there was the Costellos and, then, there was the ... oh, what was that other ... ? They were a Frascone, too, but I think they weren't related to Michelina. I don't know who lived on the other side of that house. It was some other people that lived there. Then, there's Vanderbee's Ice Cream down behind that. I worked there for about a couple years.
AS: At Vanderbee's?
GT: Yes, ice cream.
AS: What did you do there?
GT: That was when I was living on Payne Avenue with my husband. See, we lived with my mother-in-law and father-in-law for five years because they were on relief and we'd try to ... There was one house that Tony Gagliardi's mother and father lived ... across the street from there, Hopkins. Then, there was that one family that was ... Cucchiarella used to live across the street. I think her husband just died.
AS: This is a different Cucchiarella family than the family that lived next door or in the same house as your husband?
GT: Was their name Cucchiarella?
AS: Yes. There was a Rose and Filimino Cucchiarella who lived on the other side of the duplex.
GT: Oh, yes.
AS: Do you remember them?
GT: That's Michelina's mother and father, you mean?
12
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
AS: No. Her parents were D' Aloias. Her mother and father were Dominic and Filimena D'Aloia. Her parents moved into the apartment that your husband's family lived in. After they left, that family moved in. But, she lived, when she first came from Italy, for a short time with the Cucchiarellas on the other side of the house, in that same house as a duplex. In the other apartment is where Filimino and Rose Cucchiarella lived. You don't remember meeting them?
GT: I don't remember that, no. I know there was a Cucchiarella that lived up on Payne and ... oh, god, what's that? When we lived on Payne Avenue, there was that one street.. .not Desoto. There was Desoto Street and what was that other street there? I don't remember. I know there was a Cucchiarella that lived there. Her name was [sounds like Mud-ee-yet]. But, she died now, I think. I don't know if she's living or if she died. Oh, there were so many of them. I can't remember them all. [chuckles]
AS: When you went to dinner that night, the first time you had dinner at your husband's family's house, was that the first time you'd been to that house?
GT: Yes. Yes.
AS: Did you spend any time there?
GT: Yes, we sat around and had a glass of wine. They always made their ... had wine on the table. Italians always do at dinner. When I was courting my husband ... {laughter] We walked all the time, walked from my place to his place or my place. Wherever we went, we had to walk. We used to go down to Harriet Island and dance on Sunday afternoon. They used to have a pavilion down there and they had music. We all used to go down there and, oh, we used to have a lot of fun. That's all we thought of was dancing. Nowadays, the other kids don't do that. Kids don't do that now. They don't dance like we did. We did a lot of foxtrot and waltzes and stuff like that. Kids, nowadays, they gotta shake their butt. What's her name? Brittany? [gasp] She looked terrible last night on the TV. She was half naked.
AS: I didn't see her.
GT: Oh, I can't stand her. I turned it off. I didn't want to watch it.
Oh, there was the Policanos that lived on Hopkins. Yes. Did Michelina say anything about Policanos?
AS: I don't remember that.
GT: Yes, there was a family that lived in there: Tom and John and Carmel and, let's see, who was the other one? There was another one. She died, too, now. Her name was ... oh, I can't think ofher hame. I think I'm getting Alzheimer's. rm forgetting everything.
13
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
AS: You're doing great. You remember so much.
GT: I'm forgetting.
AS: Do you remember meeting Michelina when she was a young girl?
GT: No. I never met her. No. I never met her. Maybe I've seen her when she'd come out of the house or something, but I never met her to talk to. I met her after I got married. Yes. She's a wonderful person. She used to dance Italian dances for the Festival of Nations and stuff. I think she still belongs to that. Yes, she still belongs to that, I think. She was always involved in everything at the Christ Child. Even now, I think, down on Burr Street-no, Minnehaha, I think it is and not Burr but the next one over. We used to go to Korman's. When I moved on Minnehaha, we always went to Korman's Store when the father had it. Then, he died and, then, the son took over but, now, they sold ...
[End of Tape 1, Side 1]
[Tape 1, Side 2]
GT: That's where my boy was baptized ... Father Pioletti, Monsignor Pioletti, but he's dead now. They used to have a church, Holy Redeemer, way over on College [Avenue]. I can remember my mother walking every morning going over there, way from Arch Street way over to College, past Wabasha. She'd walk every morning.
Then, they used to have the market downtown and we used to meet and see all the people down there. They used to go to the market every Saturday morning, you know. It was a lot of fun years ago but, now, it's no fun. I don't know.
AS: Do you remember the railroads in the area?
GT: Oh, yes. There was railroads all around there. My mother-in-law used to live in one of those houses where the railroad was behind her and you used to go under the bridge, from the Lafayette Bridge underneath there, all the way around there. Then, there was the ... what do they call that place down at the creek now? Dave Moore always had some kind of show about that. On Channel 2, they come up once in a while.
AS: Do you mean Swede Hollow?
GT: Yes, Swede Hollow, yes. There were a lot of them that lived down there. It was kind of a cute little creek going down there and the people were living down there. It was kind of cute. We used to go down there and look around. Everything has changed so now. It's not the same as it was. Years ago, we used to have a lot of fun. People were good to each other. You know what I mean. They used to have a lot of fun, have -parties and stuff-but not no more. It's different now. I think people are afraid now. They don't like to, you know, get acquainted too
14
Grace Tinucci Interview
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
•
quick with people. It's the same here. It's the same thing. You just mind your own business and that's it. You don't want to get too friendly with everybody, especially if you're alone, you know. The men do. They talk to each other. Well, there's some women who do. There's one woman across the hall here, she goes with me at the Little Sisters [of the Poor]. It's different. Everything is different.
AS: Thank you. Thank you so much. This is very helpful.
GT: I don't know if! told you much. It's just reminiscing like; that's what it is.
[End of Tape 1, Side 2]
[End of the Interview]
Transcribed by: Beverly A. Hermes
Hermes Transcribing and Research Service 12617 FairgreenAvenue, St. Paul, MN 55124-8213 (952) 953-0730 [email protected]
Grace Tinucci Interview
15
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y Ope
n Hou
se E
xhibi
t
Oral H
istory
Proj
ect
Minnes
ota H
istori
cal S
ociet
y
