Hill AUS DoD Rship w Indonesia 2002

8/8/2019 Hill AUS DoD Rship w Indonesia 2002

1/7

TRANSCRIPT

Press Conference

Shangri-La Hotel, Jakarta

10:15am, 7 March 2002

RE: Defence relationship with Indonesia,Terrorism...e&oe

Senator Robert Hill:

Thanks for coming along. I spoke to a number of groups of journalistsyesterday who happened upon some of my meetings, but others who didn'tget the opportunity we said we would extend the opportunity if there was

anyone who wanted to ask me questions, particularly from the Indonesianmedia. So I will just say a few introductory words and then give you thatchance.

I am here as the Australian Minister for Defence. I have only been in thatoffice a short period of time and this is my first visit to Jakarta as DefenceMinister. The purpose of the visit has been to meet with my variouscounterparts in Jakarta in order that we can open a level of personalcommunication to ensure that we properly understand each other'sperspective on a range of defence issues that affect our two countries.

Its an opportunity for me to emphasis to Indonesian ministers my desire that

at the defence level that we work constructively and positively together. Thatwe ensure that each of our defence forces has open appropriate levels ofcommunication. That they understand the mission of each other and that theyare best able therefore to avoid any misunderstandings. It is also anopportunity to say, from time to time, there may be a need for our defenceforces to work together in relation to some third party issue, whether that be aterrorist type issue or otherwise. Towards that end to say that I think it isdesirable that we take steps to rebuild the defence relationship which hassuffered a bit in recent years.

Although, nevertheless, more has perhaps continued behind the scenes than

might have been apparent to all. We have continued to have DefenceAttaches in each other's countries. We have continued to provide courses atour military institutions. Weve continued to maintain communication betweenour military forces in various ways. But we haven't had the sort of exercisesthat we have had in the past. And that, in an ordered way, the rebuilding ofthat relationship I think is in the interests of both our two countries, and Iwanted to communicate that to my counterparts.

And thats basically what I have been doing. I have met with the DefenceMinister, with the Coordinating Minister, with the Foreign Minister, with theHeads of the Defence Department, with the Chief of the Defence Forces in

Indonesia and some other interlocutors.Any questions?


2/7

Journalist:

Senator, you talked about the step-by-step progression of relations. Where doyou see the relationship ending up and will that relationship be at the samelevel as it has been in the past - before East Timor?

Senator Hill:We haven't defined an end product because the challenges change as timegoes by. I'll mention a couple of areas. We want to ensure that we have aneffective communication to avoid misunderstandings. We want to have arelationship that would enable us to deal together if there was some thirdparty issue if it was appropriate. There is a whole range of future possibilitieswhere a good defence relationship, where there is no misunderstandings,where we appreciate each other's culture, is important and I want to rebuildthe relationship in that direction.

You would be aware, I think, that we have had two meetings at senior official's

level to try and put that program back in place. Both sides, I think, believe thatit was important that it not be simply rhetorical, that it was useful to talk aboutthe substance, and to get a better understanding of the aspirations of eachcountry and so forth. So that it becomes perhaps a more substantialrelationship than what it might have been in the past.

Journalist:

Would you see joint exercises as happened in the past, the pursuing ofinformation (inaudible)....

Senator Hill:

We have taken advantage of the memorandum of Understanding that wasagreed between our two countries recently on the issue of terrorism to look atsome practical implementation of the sort of spirit that I have just been talkingabout. In the area of intelligence we have already commenced a dialoguesince that memorandum because, on the issue of terrorism, obviously therewill be instances where we can share information to our mutual advantage. Soagencies have started to explore how this might work in practice. In relation toexercises, weve had some preliminary discussions as to whether we mightlook to some maritime surveillance-type exercises as a start. They haveworked quite successfully in the past, and again it would be possible then totranslate the exercises into some practical work that our two navies might be

able to do together to mutual advantage some time in the future.

Weve talked a bit about our counter-terrorism capability in Australia andwhether theres lessons that Indonesia might like to learn from our experiencein that regard, particularly in such areas as command and control, how webring together the various agencies, police and defence and so forth. Tohopefully deliver the most effective response if a counter-terrorism capabilitywas ever required. We have talked a bit about training and we are in factoffering the Indonesian armed forces some further places for their cadets inour military institutions. We think that thats a good investment for Australia interms of future defence leaders in this country understanding our society, and

we would like to think that that is a good investment for Indonesia as well. Thepreliminary response to that has been very positive.


3/7

Journalist:

[Inaudible - concerning space port at Christmas Island.]

Senator Hill:

Space port? No we didn't discuss the space port in Christmas Island, although

I did read in the press that there was some speculation about what would bethe purpose of that space port. Its a private sector investment in Australia, inChristmas Island, to deliver satellites for communication purposes. It will be acompletely transparent and open process, there is no military involvement in itat all. There is no other untoward objective at all.

Journalist:

[Inaudible]

Senator Hill:

I am sure if there was ever any concern by the Indonesian authorities they

would be perfectly welcome to visit Christmas Island and see what thiscompany is seeking to do.

Journalist:

[Inaudible - about Indonesian Parliament's concerns.]

Senator Hill:

Well as I said, there is no military aspect to this whatsoever. And its acompletely open book. As I said any Indonesian authority that wants to look atwhat we are doing, well that is fine.

Australian Ambassador Ric Smith:I would add that have had two delegations here in Jakarta in the last month togo over all of these issues with the Indonesian authorities.

Senator Hill:

It is purely Australia trying to do business. At the moment we have to pay forthose satellites to be launched elsewhere in the world and we would like to bein the business of satellite launching if that can help create wealth. There isabsolutely no military aspect at all. And, as I said, it is an open book, anddespite the visits that have been made the Indonesian authorities arewelcome at any time.

Journalist:

Has Australia set any goal posts on your resumption of full militaryrelationships with Indonesia? [Inaudible] ... with the US where it wanted to seetrials put in place for people who committed atrocities in East Timor. Are thereno similar goal posts for Australia?

Senator Hill:

There seems to be a presumption in the question that we don't have militaryrelations, which is not the case. We do have military relations. What we aretalking about is how we might further develop them in the future.


4/7

We haven't set strict prerequisites of the type that you are talking about. TheUS is a bit different where you have a congressional role in terms of itlegislation. This is purely government to government in our instance. TheIndonesian authorities are well aware of our values and where we come fromin terms of our military culture. But we do think that between our two

neighbouring countries there is value for both of us if we build upon theexisting defence relationship in some practical and sensible ways and that iswhat were looking to do.

Journalist:

Can I rephrase. Is there anything Indonesia could do that would speed upthese closer military ties with Australia?

Senator Hill:

There is nothing that Indonesia is not doing. I think both sides have said let'sprogress this on a step-by-step basis and let's make sure we both understand

what we are seeking from that defence relationship. I think that is a sensibleway to go forward. I think perhaps in the past all too often we have set out onpaper what the relationship is without perhaps there being developed withinthat a more substantial understanding of each other's aspirations andcapabilities. Now we are starting really at the other end and trying to build therelationship step-by-step. The Memorandum of Understanding on Terrorismgives us a good practical opportunity to do that in a way that can benefit bothcountries.

Journalist:

Would any progress on human rights issues have any bearing on the speed

with which Australia reviews its defence relationship with Indonesia?

Senator Hill:

Well, as I said, neither side is rushing to rebuild the defence relationship forthe sake of rebuilding the defence relationship. We are seeking to build therelationship to our mutual advantage, where we see benefit in it for us, andwhere Indonesia sees benefit in it for them. On the issue of human rights, ourposition is well known, on the basis of our culture and our political philosophyand Indonesia is well aware of our views on that subject.

Journalist:

So there is no linkage between Indonesia's performance on human rights?

Senator Hill:

We haven't established a set of tests as such. We are pleased that theadministration and the leadership within this country would seem to be puttinga greater emphasis on the importance of human rights. We say that not justas Australians but as part of a broader international community that claims,under international conventions and so on, that claims that there are universalhuman rights that we should all seek to respect.

Journalist:

There hasn't been an incident on the West Timor border for some time. Lastweek in Bali officials from Indonesia and East Timor discussed greater


5/7

access, greater free flow across the border of trade and people. How long toyou envisage Australian troops being stationed along that border with WestTimor?

Senator Hill:

That is something we would obviously have to work on in conjunction with theUnited Nations and what will be the new independent state of East Timor. Ithink the UN, though it had a shorter mandate, its next phase overall, subjectto the views of the independent countries, is talking of a two year period. Thatmight turn out in practice to be a reasonable period of time for such apresence. What we are doing is we are reducing our military presence as thesize of the total UN force reduces. So we have about 1500 defence forcepeople at the moment and by the end of June the intention is to reduce that toabout 1250 which will be when the total UN force is reduced down to 5000. Sowe will continue to provide about a quarter. We would expect that gradualreduction to continue, subject to the views, as I said, of the UN and East

Timor. I'd actual like to see some further reduction by the end of this calendaryear.

I should just take the opportunity to say I visited East Timor just beforeChristmas and the Australia forces expressed to me the fact that they werevery pleased with the working relationship that theyve established with theIndonesian forces. They were having regular dialogues at a range of differentlevels and they thought that was proving to be constructive and helpful in thesort of trans-border issues that youre talking about. I passed that message onto my counterparts here because it is I think a good sign in terms of thebroader defence relationship, the fact that the forces in practice do seem to be

able to communicate effectively together, and work in what could be a trickysituation from time to time effectively.

Journalist:

What is your view on how Indonesia is dealing with the alleged terrorists inIndonesia?

Senator Hill:

We are obviously very committed to the war against terrorism. We believe thatone of the lessons of the 11th of September is the need to confront theseissues head on and to ensure that we are all operating on the best intelligence

and that, where we see a potential problem for the future, we confront it.Therefore it is important that we all play our role in that regard because wenow know that these terrorist networks are international and if there is a weaklink then that can potentially become a threat to all of us. And we know frommore recent experience in South East Asia that our region is not excludedfrom this international/national picture. So weve got to play our part, and weaccept that, and Indonesia has got to play its part. What senior ministers havesaid to me during this visit is that that is accepted and they are willing to doso, both in terms of Indonesia's welfare but also in the terms of the wholeregion. And as you are probably aware theres been several meetings withinASEAN and ASEAN states to look at improving the intelligence dialogue. In

relation to the networks in this part of the world and under the Memorandumof Understanding that we have entered into with Indonesia, we are starting to


6/7

develop a similar sort of response. So, I interpret that as a positive messagefrom my interlocutors, the Ministers I have been meeting with, that the issue istaken seriously and that Indonesia accepts that its got to play its part toensure that we collectively combat what might one day be a threat to any oneof us. And I have been quite pleased with the response that I have received in

that regard.

Journalist:

So you don't see Indonesia as the weak link as some commentators havesuggested?

Senator Hill:

I do see the difficulty for authorities in this country with such a huge populationspread over an enormous geography, and also evolving political systems andadministration and the like. But whats been put to me, which I accept, is whatI have just said to you; that Indonesia accepts its responsibility and is going to

play its part and Im already seeing that starting to work in practice in therelations with our country. We want to be supportive of Indonesia in thatregard. So we realize that the only effective way to tackle what couldpotentially become a problem within this country, is through the Indonesianauthorities and we have offered whatever support we can to assist them inthat regard.

Journalist:

What do you think so far of the investigations [inaudible - about terrorists].

Senator Hill:

It has been pointed out to me that if you aspire to be a democracy you havegot to act in democratic ways. As an Australian I understand that. Having saidthat, perhaps we as a democracy haven't always had the most effective toolsto tackle this particular problem because we now see it as we haven't seen itin the past. We are moving to reform the Australian domestic laws in thatregard. Were introducing legislation, I expect, next week in that regard. AndIndonesia is looking to legislative change itself to assist it in meeting its shareof the responsibility. But whats been put to me, which I accept, is that in eachcase where evidence has been put to authorities here about the involvementof any individual, that the Government is seeking to investigate thoseallegations in a thorough way and has a commitment to ensure that within the

capabilities of Indonesian law that there is a full and appropriate response. Itis true that there are certain powers in some other neighboring states thatIndonesia does not have, and it is up to Indonesia to determine whether itwishes to extend its powers. But what I am told is that they are looking atsome legislative reform in this area.

Journalist:

Implicit in what you are saying Senator Hill is that more remains to be done inIndonesia?

Senator Hill:

Well I'd say that more remains to be done in Australia. We are all on alearning curve in this experience. We now know more than we knew six


7/7

months ago about these networks, not so much in terms of action they maybe taking now, but action that they may be take at some time in the future.And I think that Indonesia and we therefore share the understanding that weneed to respond effectively and that is going to require, over time, for us all todo more. Thats why we are both talking about the need for legislative change.

Journalist:

[Inaudible - on particulars of terrorism cooperation.]

Senator Hill:

I mentioned that we are looking to share intelligence where it can be useful toeach other and I think that is the most important building block of all. We areprepared to talk to Indonesia about the capabilities that we have built upwithin Australia to address a terrorist act if it was to occur. We have reallyquite sophisticated response mechanisms now. There is a whole range ofdifferent practical steps that we can take. Legislative reform is one that I have

already mentioned that both of us are looking to take. We are prepared toprovide legal advice, and a lot of this depends on the international legalnetwork that exists, and there is help that we can give in that regard. Thisseries of meetings that I have been having is just the first in what I hope willbe a series over the next few years and part of that will be to ensure that weare both as able as possible to meet this threat if it was to eventuate.

Journalist:

[Inaudible]

Senator Hill:

I suppose the only other thing I would say in concluding is how pleased I havebeen with the very warm and positive response I have received from all theministers. I have said that, from an Australian perspective, we want a goodpositive relationship with Indonesia. Its important to us. I am very pleased tohave noted that all ministers have said to me that it is important to Indonesiaas well. Thanks.

ENDS

Documents

Hill AUS DoD Rship w Indonesia 2002