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"God isn't dead - Intelligence is"

Paris, June 12, 1974

listen

Bhagavan: ...the original beauty.

Prabhupada: Original beauty, just like animals. They remain naked. So the, theoriginal beauty is animal. Because the animals, they do not dress. In thehuman society, they cover. Animals do not cover. Therefore original beauty isanimal.

Satsvarupa: They say that this is, the body is made by God. Why cover it up?

Nakedness is the work of God.

Prabhupada: No. God said that you should cover. (Some French boys inbackground are making mocking sounds, yelling, etc.) And they are becomingnaked now. (yelling increases) What is that? They are laughing.

Satsvarupa: Crazy.

Bhagavan: Do we go left, Harinama?

Harinama: To the right. (more yelling, Prabhupada chuckles)

Bhagavan: When there is big kirtana party, then they stop laughing veryquickly.

Prabhupada: What are these buildings?

Bhagavan: This is a big museum.

Prabhupada: Museum?

Bhagavan: Yes. [break]

Paramahamsa: Everything man creates...

Prabhupada: And why does he die?

Paramahamsa: We have got knowledge.

http://prabhupadavani.org/Morning_Walks/m3u/MW059.m3uhttp://prabhupadavani.org/Morning_Walks/m3u/MW059.m3u

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Prabhupada: Who has created death? Eh? Who has created death? Mancreates everything, but who has created your death, Mr. Man? What is theanswer?

Pusta-krsna: He has not created anything then.

Prabhupada: No no, no. I accept that man has created anything, everything.But who has created your death?

Pusta-krsna: God.

Prabhupada: Huh? Is there any answer?

Paramahamsa: Well, man has not created death.

Prabhupada: That means somebody has created. So how you can say thatman has created everything? The fallacy, just see. How rascal they are. That Iwanted to say.

Paramahamsa: You have quoted a great English poet who said...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Paramahamsa: You have quoted a great English Poet who says that "Man hascreated the city..."

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Paramahamsa: "...and God has created the country."

Prabhupada: This is the statement of Mr. Cowper. Man has created nothing.Suppose this building, man has created. But wherefrom the ingredient comes.Has man created? This stone, man has created? Eh? What do you think? Isthis stone, creation of man?

Paramahamsa: No.

Prabhupada: Then what... You have done the work of a laborer. That's all. Youhave taken ingredients from God and worked hard and transformed into astep. That's all. Your creation means just like carpenter creates a furniture.That's all. That is his creation. Then that is... The economic law says that mancannot create anything. He can simply transform. These trees, has mancreated these trees? Why do they claim man has created everything?

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Pusta-krsna: But they will say that they made the garden.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pusta-krsna: They will say that they made a very nice garden.

Prabhupada: That's all. That is the business of gardener, servant, not creator.That is the business of the servant. Just like I keep a gardener servant, and"Do like this. Do like that." That is not he is creator. It is my money which hascreated. Therefore it is Krsna's, everything. That is Krsna consciousness, thatyou have not created anything. You are servant. You are working, and Krsnais giving you your subsistence. That's all. So why don't you accept that you areservant of God instead of claiming that you have created. What you havecreated? This is our challenge. Am I right or wrong?

Paramahamsa: Right.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Paramahamsa: Right.

Prabhupada: Yes. What you have created?

Paramahamsa: Life becomes so artificial. In the big city, people don't see thatthey depend on God.

Prabhupada: No, no. City or country, that I don't say that Mr. Cowper is perfectin his statement. City is also created by God. City is also created by God. Godhas given you the ingredients, He has given you the intelligence, and youcreate. Eh? Wherefrom you get the intelligence? Eh? Who will answer this?Wherefrom the man gets his intelligence?

Pusta-krsna: From Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. What is the verse?

Pusta-krsna: Mattah smrtir jnanam...

Prabhupada: Ah. Mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. Sarvasyacaham hrdi sannivistah. So He is sitting in everyone's heart, and He's givingintelligence. And because the intelligence comes from God, therefore one ismore intelligent, one is less intelligent. Because intelligence is not his. It is bythe mercy of God one gets more intelligence, one gets less intelligence. So

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intelligence is supplied by God.

Yogesvara: Yet... But they claim to have found a way of making peoplebiologically more intelligent now.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Yogesvara: The scientists claim that they have found a way of making babiesmore intelligent.

Prabhupada: That, they are dipping in so many things. Therefore we kick ontheir face, that say, promise, so many things, but cannot do anything. That isthe defect of the so-called scientists. They are promising, "By scientificmethod, we shall make man deathless." Do they not say?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupada: But have they made him deathless? Simply a dream. That's all.Utopian dream.

Bhagavan: Even if they succeed in one area of doing something theypromise...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Bhagavan: ...they create something that they didn't want to. They create someother problem that they didn't expect.

Prabhupada: What they have created? They are creating... But still dependent.Suppose they have created this horseless carriage. Now they are crying,"Where is the petrol? Where is the petrol?" So if God does not supply petrol,then all these horseless carriage will be pieces of tin. That's all.

Pusta-krsna: Maya-sukhaya.

Prabhupada: Can you create petrol?

Bhagavan: No.

Prabhupada: Then what is the value of your, this horseless carriage? You aredependent on God. What you have created? And what you can do? You cancreate war only to fight, man to man, and when you are in danger, then you goto church; "God save us. God save us." That you can create. And as far aspeacefully living, accepting God as the Supreme, you can create war. That's

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all. That means... Like dogs, they create war. So this is a nice park. Why doyou go so far? It is nice park. Now you create something to enjoy. Just likewho created this building? Napoleon?

French Devotee (1): No.

Prabhupada: Then?

French Devotee (1): It's not by Napoleon. It's just...

Paramahamsa: What is it from?

French Devotee (2): It's a new building.

French Devotee (1): It's new. It's not hundred years old. It's called MarineMuseum, Museum of the Marines.

Paramahamsa: It's a museum for exhibitions.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna Hare Krsna. The man who created, he's kicked out."Get out!" What did he do? "I have created this thing. I must enjoy." Why he'skicked out? Why?

Pusta-krsna: Because it is actually not his property.

Prabhupada: What is the answer? Why you are kicked out? Answer somebody.

Pusta-krsna: It's just like this body.

Bhagavan: He's not the real proprietor.

Prabhupada: Therefore... Yes. And not only kicked out. Who knows that hehas been given a different body, maybe cats and dogs? So what is the valueof this creation? Suppose I create this building, and on account of mentality,nature gives me next body a dog, and... Then what is my profit?

Yogesvara: Yeah, there was that man who came to see you a couple of daysago. His argument was that we can't really say for sure because it's notperceivable that we will take a dog's body. But at least this is something wecan understand. Here's something, a nice accomplishment.

Prabhupada: But you understand, but you can understand also that you'll be

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kicked out. Don't you understand this?

Bhagavan: He doesn't know it.

Prabhupada: Eh? Therefore, he's a fool.

Bhagavan: There's a statement that says that...

Prabhupada: Just like suppose if I do something here in Paris, and if you say,"Sir, as soon as your visa is finished, you'll be kicked out," shall I be interestedto create anything? That is intelligence, that "I will be kicked out after twomonths. Why shall I construct such a big scheme?" That is intelligence. Sothese rascals know that he'll be kicked out. Still, he works day and night for collecting bricks and stones and he becomes a big man. Mean a foolish rascal,he is considered a big man. Therefore sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutahpurusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19].

Paramahamsa: People argue that "God has given us our intelligence and our senses, and therefore we must enjoy."

Prabhupada: Yes. You enjoy. The dog is also enjoying. What you are enjoyingmore than the dog? Dog also eat. You also eat. Dog also sleep. You alsosleep. Dogs also enjoy sex life. You also enjoy sex life. Dog is also afraid of his enemy. You are also afraid of your enemy. So what is the differencebetween you and dog? Why you claim that you have become very great?

What is the difference between the dog's mentality and your mentality? Godhas given you intelligence to understand that you are nothing, God iseverything. Just realize it. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. When youunderstand that "God is great. I am His servant," that is real reali... That is hisintelligence. Otherwise, he's exactly like the dog. What is his intelligence?

Paramahamsa: But people today have reasoned God is dead with their intelligence.

Prabhupada: God is not dead. Your intelligence is dead. You have got a deadbody, and you are proud of it. Eh? Decoration of the dead body. And you are

decorating the dead body. The body's dead. That's a fact. Because as soon asyou, soul, get out, it is dead body. But the body's already there. That means Iam occupying a dead body. So long I am there, it is working only. But thebody's dead. And you are decorating the dead body. You are so intelligent.You are interested with a dead body. And you have no intelligence to see thatactually it is dead body. Because as soon as I will go away, it is dead body.The body is dead, but... Just like motor car. It is dead. If there is no petrol, it isdead. Similarly, your body is dead. Now try to understand. And if somebody

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decorates a dead body, is he very intelligent?

Bhagavan: No.

Prabhupada: Then? Your all acquisition is decoration of the dead body. That isa verse, apranasya hi dehasya mandanam loka-ranjanam. Loka-ranjanam.You can get some rascal and fool, some applause, "Oh, you are so nice. Youare decorating dead body." But intelligent man will say "What a fool he is thathe's decorating a dead body. That's all."

Yogesvara: It's like the story of the emperor's new clothes.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Yogesvara: There's a story about an emperor who commissioned a tailor tomake some clothes for him. So the commissioner, the tailor, outsmarted himand told the king, "I have made you invisible clothes."

Prabhupada: Oh. (laughs)

Yogesvara: So the king said, "Oh, how wonderful. I'm the only person withsuch clothes." So he wore the invisible clothes and went out in public. Andbecause he was the king, everyone was saying, "Oh, just see how beautifulclothes he has." But then one simple person said: "Why is the king walkingnaked?"

Prabhupada: So a simple person is more intelligent than the so-calledsophisticated citizens. Decorating the dead body. I think in my Back toGodhead I wrote this article.

Bhagavan: One old Back to Godhead.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Bhagavan: One old Back to Godhead.

Prabhupada: Yes. "Decoration of the dead body."

Satsvarupa: They might ask why we decorate the Deity if we say that.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Satsvarupa: Why do we decorate the, a stone Deity?

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Prabhupada: Because it is not dead; it is living. They can put forward thisargument. But that you do not know, that we are not decorating... We are, weare decorating the real body. Now what will be your question next?

Satsvarupa: You say it's a real body, but it appears to be stone.

Prabhupada: Why stone? Stone is also God's body. You don't know that? Doyou know it or not?

Satsvarupa: Yes, in the Universal Form.

Prabhupada: No. Universal Form... Krsna says, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh [Bg.7.4]. Bhumi means the earth. "That is My body."

Yogesvara: But there are no... They would say that there are no symptoms of life in the Deity.

Prabhupada: No, there is life, but you have no eyes to see. There is life. He'sthe supreme life. Only premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena [Bs. 5.38], onewho is devotee, he can see. Otherwise, are we fools, rascals, that we areworshiping a dead body? Do you mean to say after reading so many books,we are worshiping stone? You have no eyes. You have to create that eyes tosee that "Here is personally Krsna present, arcavatara."

Bhagavan: They can't even see that in an animal other than human there'ssoul. So how can they understand the Deity?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Bhagavan: They can't...

Prabhupada: so therefore they have to become our student and become our disciple to understand this science. Otherwise, why there is propaganda if weremain the same fool and rascal? That, that is Krsna consciousness, that thestone is also, that is virad-rupa. That is also Krsna.

Satsvarupa: But by that argument, then, this body is also Krsna, made of earthand water.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is Krsna's. But you are thinking you are. That is Krsna's.Therefore this body should be engaged for Krsna's service. That is Krsnaconsciousness. You, as soon as you accept this body is Krsna's, then youcannot employ it for other purposes. But that realization you have no. Why doyou say it is Krsna's? You are thinking your body. Or you are body. Where is

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that consciousness?

Paramahamsa: The impersonalists argue when they read the verse, ahamsarvasya bhutesu...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Paramahamsa: They argue that Krsna's in the heart of every living entity.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: Therefore, every living entity is Krsna.

Prabhupada: Why? If I am in the room, I am room? Is that very goodargument? Because I am in this room, I have become room? Is that argumentvery sound? Krsna is within this body. I am also within this body. But does itmean I am body, or Krsna is this body?

Devotees: No.

Prabhupada: Krsna is everything; again Krsna is... That is... What is the verse?maya tatam idam sarvam jagad avyakta-murtina: "I am spread all over theuniverse in My impersonal feature." Jagad avyakta-murti..., mat-sthani sarva-bhutani [Bg. 9.4]. "Everything is in Me." Naham te..., "But I am not there." Thisis called simultaneously one and different. Acintya-bheda, that one has tounderstand. Where there is no Krsna consciousness, that is different fromKrsna. Otherwise, everything is Krsna.

Bhagavan: The other religions do not give any...

Prabhupada: We are not talking of religions. We are talking of science.

Bhagavan: Yeah.

Prabhupada: So don't bring in any religion. A type of religion is made, "Believesomething blindly." So that is not our concern. We are talking of the science. If

I say that stone is also Krsna, is not that the science?

Bhagavan: It's the science of how God's energies are working.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just like if I say heat is also fire. Is there any wrong?

Bhagavan: No.

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Prabhupada: Is there any wrong?

Devotees: No.

Prabhupada: Heat is also fire. But at the same time, heat is not fire. What isthe difficulty to understand? If I say heat is also fire, but it is not fire, where isthe wrong?

Devotee: Heat comes from the fire.

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore the fire quality is there. Heat is the quality of thefire. Just like I taste sugar. The sweetness is also sugar. And the form is alsosugar.

Yogesvara: Well, they would say, "If stone is also Krsna, then why aren't weworshiping all stone?"

Prabhupada: Eh?

Yogesvara: Then why don't we worship all... Here is also some stone. Whydon't we worship this?

Prabhupada: You worship. Because you are rascal, you worship.

Yogesvara: No, they...

Prabhupada: We, we worship Krsna in His form, but you are formless. Youworship that stone. When we make the form of Krsna in stone, then weworship, not that any stone. Because Krsna is everything, that does not mean Ihave to worship the dog. That you worship. Because you are impersonalist,you worship dog. And you are doing that. In the morning, you take a dog andworship it. That is your business. Our business is to worship the form of Krsna.That is the, required. (pause)

Bhagavan: Could we say that anyone who is engaged in glorifying the body isactually engaged in idol worship?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Bhagavan: Anyone who's engaged in...

Prabhupada: That is already answered. Krsna says, "The body is Myself, butstill, I am not there." So you cannot say by worshiping your body, you're

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worshiping Krsna. At that time, he's not there, although the body's also Krsna.

Paramahamsa: Sometimes, they argue, "How do you know this Deity is Krsna,and this one isn't? Because each Deity looks a little different to the material

eyes."

Prabhupada: So we have to pluck out the material eyes. Then you'll see that itis all right. First of all, let me pluck out your material eyes. Then you'll see.Therefore it is said, premanjana-cchurita: "Eyes with love of Godhead." Justlike Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He saw Jagannatha Deity, Jagannatha Deity's notvery beautiful. But immediately He saw Krsna and fainted. You have to makethat eyes, then you'll see. So your present eye have to be plucked out. Thenyou'll see. Hare Krsna. Who is that statue? You are...?

Paramahamsa: It's a decoration.

Bhagavan: Where do we go?

Paramahamsa: There's a promenade around the fountain.

Prabhupada: So they have made this art. Suppose a real man and womanstands here. Will it be considered as art or criminal?

Paramahamsa: It would be considered criminal to them.

Prabhupada: Then? Their art is criminal.

Paramahamsa: But their argument is that when you glorify the body of manwith...

Prabhupada: We don't glorify the body of... Who glorifies the body of man? Wesay it is dead body. Dead body means that does not need glorification. It iscondemned. We say dead body, decoration of the dead body. We don't sayart.

Paramahamsa: Catholic Renaissance Art, they glorified the dead body.

Leonardo da Vinci, they glorified the body of man.

Prabhupada: That is called bhutejya. That is described in the Bhagavad-gitaas worshiping the material elements. That's all. Here in western countries, thatis the prominent thing, bhutejya. (pause) What is the other side? Lion? (pause,break) They cover with some cloth, some loose cloth. Is it not?

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Bhagavan: Yes.

Prabhupada: This is French art, to make naked?

Devotee: Yes.

Bhagavan: Little more advanced.

Prabhupada: (laughs) Yes. Therefore nowadays students are walking naked in America. Advanced, more advanced.

Bhagavan: There was one picture in the paper of one student running toreceive his diploma without any clothes on. (laughter)

Prabhupada: Just see how much rascal they are becoming. (to devotee:) Takecare of your son. It is... Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna...

Paramahamsa: If the material creation is created by Krsna, then man cannotdestroy it although they are thinking that if they have a nuclear war, then theywill destroy the earth.

Prabhupada: What they will destroy?

Paramahamsa: They're thinking the earth will just blow up with all the atomicbombs.

Prabhupada: That means this earth will be finished?

Paramahamsa: Yes.

Prabhupada: They're expecting that?

Paramahamsa: Yes.

Prabhupada: The earth will be finished?

Bhagavan: They think it's within their power.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Bhagavan: It's within their power.

Prabhupada: Within their power, so many things they're imagining. That is notpossible. He can make a big hole only. That's all. Then where he'll stand?

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Suppose he finishes the earth. Then he is also finished. Then what is thecredit? If you suicide, if you cut your own throat, is that very good credit? Thenwhat is the credit? Suppose he has manufactured something that the earth willbe finished. Then he'll be also finished. So what is God's loss? There are

millions of earth-like planets floating in the sky. So one is lost. What is God'sloss? It is your loss, that you are finished. Is that very good invention, to finishyourself? You are being finished. And now you have invented instrument to befinished. So you'll be finished. Wait for that. Why you are anxious to inventsomething to finish yourself? Is that very good intelligence? You'll be finished.That's a fact. So why you have invented machine to finish yourself quickly andyou want to take credit? That means he proves he's a nonsense. He's anonsense.

Paramahamsa: If God is all-good, why does He permit so many wars to goon?

Prabhupada: Because you want to be finished. You create war to be finished.God does not create. Just like you have created this weapon. In the name of finishing your enemy, you'll be finished, also. Is that very good credit? AndGod has created like that? You have created. Why don't you understand this?

Yogesvara: Well, why has God permitted me to do such a horrible thing?

Prabhupada: Yes, that is your little independence. God does not want to touchany... By your independence, go to hell or go to heaven. That's your choice.

God says that "Don't use your independence by malpractice." Sarva-dharmanparityajya mam... [Bg. 18.66]. God, that is God's statement. "You surrender toMe. I'll guide you." But if you misuse your independence, that's your business.You go to hell or heaven. That's your business. (pause)

Bhagavan: Where do we go now?

Paramahamsa: The car will be waiting for us down there.

Bhagavan: You're going to get it right now?

Paramahamsa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. They're all demigods, these pictures?

Pusta-krsna: Demi-animals.

Prabhupada: This is, I think, Adam and Eve, in the midst, middle? There must

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be some sense in the picture.

Pusta-krsna: Yes, there is.

Paramahamsa: People are believing that at the end of life, there's just death.So why worry about anything else? Therefore we should just enjoy right now.

Prabhupada: That is the difference between you and animal. The animal is inthe slaughterhouse. He's not worried. But why you are worried. Suppose if youare brought in the slaughterhouse, and if you know that you'll be slaughtered,are you not worried? An animal is not worried. He's eating grass. That's all. Sothat is the difference between animal and man. If you are not worried, then youare animal. That's all.

Bhagavan: You once said that human life is pessimistic.

Prabhupada: Yes. Dissatisfaction. If you are not worried, that means you areanimal. You are not human being.

Pusta-krsna: Is that like Prahlada Maharaja's prayer when he saw LordNrsimhadeva and he said, "I am not afraid of Your ferocious form, but I amafraid of this material world of samsara."

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. He has given nice reference. A devotee, although seesGod in His lion feature, and very ferocious, he knows He is God. "He's myLord." But this so-called advancement of material civilization is the greatestenemy. That is not... Material civilization is very, very backward position.Maya-mohita. He'll be captivated by the so-called stones and bricks, and he'llforget God. That is the disease of the western world. They are very much fondof these stones and bricks, and therefore they have no knowledge about God.This electricity, the electrons, the radio, this, everything machine and stones.They have got, forgotten God. Jada-vidya jato mayara vaibhava. The moreyou materially advance, you forget God. So human life is meant for revivingour relationship with God, but if you forget God, then what kind of civilization itis? You are forgetting your real business.

Pusta-krsna: Some people use the argument, Srila Prabhupada, that by thisadvancement of technology, it will free us to think of philosophical.

Prabhupada: They will free us. They will free us. Oh, that will never come. Thatwill never come. Therefore they are called bahir-artha-maninah. They arecaptivated by the external feature, and one who is leading them, he's alsoblind, and one who is following, he's also blind. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [SB 7.5.31]. They do not

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know that material laws are so strong that they are not free to do anything.

Pusta-krsna: They are thinking that the technology will free them.

Prabhupada: Eh? No. No.

Pusta-krsna: The technology cannot...?

Prabhupada: It will bind them.

Bhagavan: It simply creates newer problems.

Prabhupada: That's all.

Paramahamsa: Some people glorify suffering in the material world becausethey say this increases their sense of appreciating the momentary happinessthey have.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is good. (laughter) That is good, yes. "Blessings of adversity." That is blessing.

Yogesvara: Blessings of...?

Prabhupada: Adversity. Yes. Therefore, according to Vedic system, big, bigking, they give up their kingdom and becomes a sannyasi, mendicant,voluntary acceptance of adversity. This is good. To live very comfortably andforget God is not good business.

Devotee: How can a devotee be free from being attracted to this worldliness?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee: How can a devotee be free...?

Prabhupada: When he's attracted by Krsna, he'll forget. Just like we are moreor less not attracted by these material features because we have little

attraction for Krsna. That's all. So increase your attraction for Krsna; you'llforget all nonsense. Bhaktih paresanubhavo viraktir anyatra syat [SB 11.2.42].The bhakti means more realization of God and forgetting this, all thisnonsense. That is bhakti. That is the test of bhakti: how much you havebecome disinterested with this material advancement. That is bhakti,advancement of bhakti. And the... Caitanya Mahaprabhu therefore says,niskincanasya. At last, when you'll feel that "Now I am dispossessed of all thismaterial nonsense," then you make progress. And so long you'll feel "I have

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got this, I have got that, I am in possession of this, I...," that means your material disease is continuing. When you'll feel that "I do not have anythingmaterial," that is the beginning of Bhagavata-dharma.

Devotee: Prabhupada, what is the devotee's greatest enemy? A devotee'sgreatest enemy?

Prabhupada: He, he himself. Because he's a rascal, he's his greatest enemy.So just get out of this rascaldom, and you become your friend. Nobody isenemy. You are yourself your enemy. Nobody is enemy. (pause) Which one?

Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada. (end)

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris

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