Exhibit 8 - Baum Hedlund Aristei & Goldman · 2020. 10. 15. · Pennsylvania corporation; MYLAN, ) INC., a Pennsylvania corporation; ) and H.D. SMITH WHOLESALE DRUG CO.,) a Delaware

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS

WENDY B. DOLIN, Individually and as Independent Executor of the ESTATE OF STEWART DOLIN, Deceased,

))))

Plaintiff, ))

v. ) Case No. 1:12-cv-06403 )

SMITHKLINEBEECHAM CORPORATION D/B/A GLAXOSMITHKLINE, a Pennsylvania Corporation

)))))

Defendant. )

Exhibit 8

Case: 1:12-cv-06403 Document #: 555-8 Filed: 04/14/17 Page 1 of 54 PageID #:40598

Terry J. Schwartz

Golkow Technologies, Inc. - 1.877.370.DEPS

Page 1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS

WENDY B. DOLIN, Individually and )as Executor of the Estate of )STEWART DOLIN, Deceased, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) vs. ) 1:12-cv-06403 )SMITHKLINE BEECHAM CORPORATION )D/B/A GLAXOSMITHKLINE, a )Pennsylvania corporation; MYLAN, )INC., a Pennsylvania corporation; )and H.D. SMITH WHOLESALE DRUG CO.,)a Delaware Corporation with its )principal place of business in )Illinois, ) ) Defendants. )

Videotaped Deposition ofTERRY J. SCHWARTZ, taken before JANYCE W. BOOTH,CSR, RMR, CRR, pursuant to the Federal Rules ofCivil Procedure for the United States DistrictCourts pertaining to the taking of depositions, at233 South Wacker Drive, 78th Floor, Chicago,Illinois, commencing at 4:07 p.m. on the 25th dayof June, A.D., 2014.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 4

1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now on the

2 record.

3 My name is Michael Newell. I'm a

4 videographer for Golkow Technologies.

5 Today's date is June 25, 2014, and the

6 time is 4:07.

7 This video deposition is being held in

8 Chicago, Illinois, In the Matter of Paxil,

9 Wendy B. Dolin v. SmithKline Beecham

10 Corporation, d/b/a GlaxoSmithKline, for

11 federal court. The deponent today is Terry

12 Schwartz.

13 Will counsel please introduce themselves.

14 MR. WISNER: Brent Wisner on behalf of

15 the Plaintiff Wendy Dolin.

16 MR. DAVIS: Todd Davis on behalf of

17 GlaxoSmithKline.

18 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter is

19 Janyce Booth and will now swear in the

20 witness.

21 (WHEREUPON, the witness was duly

22 sworn.)

23 MR. DAVIS: This will be the deposition

24 of Terry Schwartz that's taken in the matter

25 of Dolin versus GlaxoSmithKline that's pending

3 My name is Michael Newell. I'm a

4 videographer for Golkow Technologies.

5 Today's date is June 25, 2014, and the

6 time is 4:07.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 5

1 here in the Northern District of Illinois.

2 This deposition is being taken pursuant to the

3 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure. All

4 objections except as to the form of the

5 question or the responsiveness of the answer

6 are reserved until such further use of the

7 deposition or until time of trial.

8 TERRY J. SCHWARTZ

9 called as a witness herein, having been first duly

10 sworn, was examined upon oral interrogatories and

11 testified as follows:

12 EXAMINATION

13 BY MR. DAVIS:

14 Q Good afternoon.

15 A Good afternoon.

16 Q Will you please tell us your full name?

17 A My full name is Terry, middle name Joel,

18 J-O-E-L, last name, Schwartz, S-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z.

19 Q Mr. Schwartz, my name is Todd Davis. I

20 represent GlaxoSmithKline in a lawsuit that Wendy

21 Dolin has filed against my client concerning the

22 death of her husband, Stewart Dolin. I'm here

23 today to ask you some questions about some issues

24 and your observations of Mr. Dolin. And before I

25 start doing that, I wanted to first kind of set

16 Q Will you please tell us your full name?

17 A My full name is Terry, middle name Joel,

18 J-O-E-L, last name, Schwartz, S-C-H-W-A-R-T-Z.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 10

1 Q So --

2 A But no personal e-mails, no other

3 e-mails. Just those two businesses. The

4 predecessor, Reed Smith, and then the acquiring

5 firm -- I'm sorry, the predecessor, Sachnoff

6 Weaver. I think it's Sachnoff Weaver and maybe

7 Rubenstein or something, and then Reed Smith.

8 Q Now, are you on any type of medication

9 that would prevent you from testifying truthfully

10 and accurately today?

11 A No.

12 Q Do you have any medical condition that

13 would prevent you from testifying truthfully and

14 accurately today?

15 A No.

16 Q Just to get some background information

17 on you, Mr. Schwartz, where do you currently live?

18 A Buffalo Grove. That's two words.

19 Buffalo Grove, Illinois, which is a northwest

20 suburb in Illinois about 35 or so miles northwest

21 of Chicago.

22 Q What's the address that you live at?

23 A 2061 Wright, W-R-I-G-H-T, Boulevard, and

24 that's Buffalo Grove, Illinois 60089.

25 Q Where were you born and when?

8 Q Now, are you on any type of medication

9 that would prevent you from testifying truthfully

10 and accurately today?

11 A No.

12 Q Do you have any medical condition that

13 would prevent you from testifying truthfully and

14 accurately today?

15 A No.

16 Q Just to get some background information

17 on you, Mr. Schwartz, where do you currently live?

18 A Buffalo Grove. That's two words.

25 Q Where were you born and when?


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 11

1 A October -- Chicago, Illinois, October 26,

2 1957.

3 Q And I'm not going to go into too much

4 detail here, but just to get some background

5 information on you --

6 A Sure.

7 Q Are you married and do you have children?

8 A Yes and yes.

9 Q And what is your -- what's your business

10 address? Where do you work?

11 A One South Wacker Drive, Suite 800,

12 Chicago, Illinois 60606.

13 Q Who do you work with or for?

14 A McGladrey. It's -- I could give you a

15 business card if you'd like. But McGladrey, LLP.

16 It's -- we're the fifth largest accounting firm in

17 the United States.

18 Q What do you do for McGladrey?

19 A I'm a audit partner at the firm.

20 Q And concerning McGladrey's address, was

21 that also McGladrey's address in July of 2010?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Where did you go to college, and when did

24 you graduate?

25 A Northern Illinois University. December

1 A October -- Chicago, Illinois, October 26,

2 1957.

3 Q And I'm not going to go into too much

4 detail here, but just to get some background

5 information on you --

6 A Sure.

7 Q Are you married and do you have children?

8 A Yes and yes.

9 Q And what is your -- what's your business

10 address? Where do you work?

11 A One South Wacker Drive, Suite 800,

12 Chicago, Illinois 60606.

13 Q Who do you work with or for?

14 A McGladrey. It's -- I could give you a

15 business card if you'd like. But McGladrey, LLP.

16 It's -- we're the fifth largest accounting firm in

17 the United States.

18 Q What do you do for McGladrey?

19 A I'm a audit partner at the firm.

20 Q And concerning McGladrey's address, was

21 that also McGladrey's address in July of 2010?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Where did you go to college, and when did

24 you graduate?

25 A Northern Illinois University. December


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 12

1 1979.

2 Q Did you have any further schooling after

3 graduating from Northern Illinois University --

4 A No.

5 Q Okay.

6 A Well, may I retract?

7 Q Sure.

8 A Sorry. It's just a small point.

9 So -- so then from January of 1980

10 through May of 1980, I took the -- a CPA review

11 course, and then in May of 1980, I successfully

12 completed the CPA exam. So I guess that was -- it

13 wasn't an advanced degree, but it was further

14 schooling. And then -- then I just started

15 working.

16 Q How long have you been a partner at

17 McGladrey?

18 A Since October 1st, 2005. Prior to that

19 I was a partner at a different firm that got

20 acquired by McGladrey, an accounting firm called

21 Altschuler Melvoin & Glasser, which is where I

22 started working in June of 1980. And if you want

23 to know the history, I'm happy to share it.

24 In -- I became a partner at Altschuler

25 Melvoin & Glasser in 1997, and then in 1998, we

1 1979.

2 Q Did you have any further schooling after

3 graduating from Northern Illinois University --

4 A No.

5 Q Okay.

6 A Well, may I retract?

7 Q Sure.

8 A Sorry. It's just a small point.

9 So -- so then from January of 1980

10 through May of 1980, I took the -- a CPA review

11 course, and then in May of 1980, I successfully

12 completed the CPA exam. So I guess that was -- it

13 wasn't an advanced degree, but it was further

14 schooling. And then -- then I just started

15 working.

16 Q How long have you been a partner at

17 McGladrey?

18 A Since October 1st, 2005. Prior to that

19 I was a partner at a different firm that got

20 acquired by McGladrey, an accounting firm called

21 Altschuler Melvoin & Glasser, which is where I

22 started working in June of 1980. And if you want

23 to know the history, I'm happy to share it.

24 In -- I became a partner at Altschuler

25 Melvoin & Glasser in 1997, and then in 1998, we


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 13

1 sold our firm to a subsidiary of American Express

2 called American Express Tax and Business Services.

3 And then effective October 1st of 2005, American

4 Express Tax and Business Services sold us into

5 McGladrey.

6 Q Do you have any type of legal or medical

7 training?

8 A No. I mean, I work with attorneys when

9 I'm doing -- when I'm serving clients, but I don't

10 have any legal training other than business law

11 courses back in school.

12 Q For today's deposition, did you review

13 any documents?

14 A No. Although after you called, or one of

15 you -- I'm sorry I don't know which, which -- I

16 think you talked to me first, and then you

17 followed up maybe a week or so later.

18 I mean, I did go online and just -- just

19 read whatever was out in the public domain

20 regarding the case. I was just curious because I

21 didn't know what was going on.

22 Q Let me see if I can ask a better, more

23 narrow question.

24 Have you reviewed any documents

25 pertaining to Stewart Dolin other than doing --

1 sold our firm to a subsidiary of American Express

2 called American Express Tax and Business Services.

3 And then effective October 1st of 2005, American

4 Express Tax and Business Services sold us into

5 McGladrey.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 18

1 Q And she -- did she reach out to you --

2 A Yes.

3 Q -- by giving you a phone call?

4 A Yes. Or I think she -- I think she --

5 she may have e-mailed me first and said, "I'd like

6 to talk to you, you know. Are you open to talking

7 to me?"

8 And I responded "Sure." And so she

9 called me.

10 Q Okay. I'm going to -- I'll come back to

11 that in a second.

12 I take it you've never -- well, never

13 mind. Hold on a second.

14 You mentioned that you're an audit

15 partner at Gladrey -- McGladrey. Excuse me.

16 A Yeah.

17 Q Can you tell us what that involves?

18 A Yes, of course.

19 I'm -- I have several clients that --

20 about 25 to 30 or so clients, and I'm involved in

21 overseeing the process that a CPA firm goes

22 through to conduct audit reports, to conduct

23 certified audits for companies' financial

24 statements. And so we have teams of audit folks

25 that go out to clients and conduct audits because

14 You mentioned that you're an audit

15 partner at Gladrey -- McGladrey. Excuse me.

16 A Yeah.

17 Q Can you tell us what that involves?

18 A Yes, of course.

19 I'm -- I have several clients that --

20 about 25 to 30 or so clients, and I'm involved in

21 overseeing the process that a CPA firm goes

22 through to conduct audit reports, to conduct

23 certified audits for companies' financial

24 statements. And so we have teams of audit folks

25 that go out to clients and conduct audits because


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 19

1 companies -- many companies are required to have

2 audits by their lender or some other third party.

3 And that's what I do.

4 Q You mentioned earlier that you first met

5 Stewart Dolin when you were doing work for a

6 company called Admiral Tool of Michigan?

7 A No. I -- I'm sorry. Let me clarify.

8 When I first met Stewart Dolin, it was --

9 it was when we were doing work for a company

10 called Admiral Tool & Manufacturing Company, and

11 that company was based in Chicago. Since -- so

12 over a number of years or a number of years

13 subsequent to that, that company actually went out

14 of business, Admiral Tool & Manufacturing Company

15 went out of business. However, a subsidiary of

16 that company was Admiral Tool of Michigan, which

17 is a steering column assembly manufacturer in

18 Livonia, Michigan, and that company continued to

19 operate as a viable entity.

20 So when I spoke with Ernie Levine very

21 recently about this particular deposition or

22 about -- yeah, about this matter and about your

23 phone call, Ernie is currently involved with

24 Admiral Tool of Michigan. However, back then when

25 I first met Stewart, it was Admiral Tool &

1 companies -- many companies are required to have

2 audits by their lender or some other third party.

3 And that's what I do.

4 Q You mentioned earlier that you first met

5 Stewart Dolin when you were doing work for a

6 company called Admiral Tool of Michigan?

7 A No. I -- I'm sorry. Let me clarify.

8 When I first met Stewart Dolin, it was --

9 it was when we were doing work for a company

10 called Admiral Tool & Manufacturing Company, and

11 that company was based in Chicago. Since -- so

12 over a number of years or a number of years

13 subsequent to that, that company actually went out

14 of business, Admiral Tool & Manufacturing Company

15 went out of business. However, a subsidiary of

16 that company was Admiral Tool of Michigan, which

17 is a steering column assembly manufacturer in

18 Livonia, Michigan, and that company continued to

19 operate as a viable entity.

20 So when I spoke with Ernie Levine very

21 recently about this particular deposition or

22 about -- yeah, about this matter and about your

23 phone call, Ernie is currently involved with

24 Admiral Tool of Michigan. However, back then when

25 I first met Stewart, it was Admiral Tool &


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 20

1 Manufacturing Company. Different legal entity.

2 However, similar ownership.

3 Q Okay. So what year did you first meet

4 Stewart Dolin?

5 A My -- okay. Give me a second here.

6 I want to say it was 1989 or 1990 time

7 frame. Maybe it was 1991, but it was around that

8 time.

9 Q Was it in connection with work that you

10 were doing for Admiral Tool & Manufacturing of

11 Chicago?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And what was Stewart Dolin doing? What

14 was his involvement with that company that

15 resulted in you and he meeting?

16 A Okay. Well, Stewart at that time was

17 with -- was with Sachnoff and Weaver. I'm sure it

18 wasn't Reed Smith at that point in time. And he

19 was a trusted advisor to the company and to the

20 family, and he -- and he and his firm were -- were

21 conducting whatever legal work needed to be done.

22 So in connection with an audit, we

23 actually need to have some level of correspondence

24 and communication with the law firm that also

25 represents that client, you know, the corporate

1 Manufacturing Company. Different legal entity.

2 However, similar ownership.

3 Q Okay. So what year did you first meet

4 Stewart Dolin?

5 A My -- okay. Give me a second here.

6 I want to say it was 1989 or 1990 time

7 frame. Maybe it was 1991, but it was around that

8 time.

9 Q Was it in connection with work that you

10 were doing for Admiral Tool & Manufacturing of

11 Chicago?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And what was Stewart Dolin doing? What

14 was his involvement with that company that

15 resulted in you and he meeting?

16 A Okay. Well, Stewart at that time was

17 with -- was with Sachnoff and Weaver. I'm sure it

18 wasn't Reed Smith at that point in time. And he

19 was a trusted advisor to the company and to the

20 family, and he -- and he and his firm were -- were

21 conducting whatever legal work needed to be done.

22 So in connection with an audit, we

23 actually need to have some level of correspondence

24 and communication with the law firm that also

25 represents that client, you know, the corporate


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 21

1 law firm, such as getting what's -- requesting

2 what's called an attorney representation letter,

3 whereby if there's anything that -- that might

4 appear that we're looking for contingencies and

5 potential disclosure requirements that may need to

6 go into the financial statements -- this is

7 probably beyond what you want to know -- but we

8 would also reach out and ask for corporate

9 minutes. Because as the auditors, we need to get

10 the corporate minutes of the company, again, just

11 to know that we've accounted -- that we are aware

12 of and have accounted for all the transactions,

13 all the corporate transactions properly and that

14 the board authorizes a particular transaction or

15 series of transactions. The auditors need to know

16 that.

17 So I would -- we would talk about those

18 types of matters. And then -- and then as -- years

19 later when Admiral Tool & Manufacturing Company in

20 Chicago was going through financial difficulties,

21 we had other conversations around the liquidation

22 of that business, what the ownership of Admiral

23 Tool in Michigan was going to look like. I mean,

24 there were other matters involving tax planning

25 that needed to happen with the family and with the

1 law firm, such as getting what's -- requesting

2 what's called an attorney representation letter,

3 whereby if there's anything that -- that might

4 appear that we're looking for contingencies and

5 potential disclosure requirements that may need to

6 go into the financial statements -- this is

7 probably beyond what you want to know -- but we

8 would also reach out and ask for corporate

9 minutes. Because as the auditors, we need to get

10 the corporate minutes of the company, again, just

11 to know that we've accounted -- that we are aware

12 of and have accounted for all the transactions,

13 all the corporate transactions properly and that

14 the board authorizes a particular transaction or

15 series of transactions. The auditors need to know

16 that.

17 So I would -- we would talk about those

18 types of matters. And then -- and then as -- years

19 later when Admiral Tool & Manufacturing Company in

20 Chicago was going through financial difficulties,

21 we had other conversations around the liquidation

22 of that business, what the ownership of Admiral

23 Tool in Michigan was going to look like. I mean,

24 there were other matters involving tax planning

25 that needed to happen with the family and with the


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 22

1 companies that I would be peripherally involved in

2 because I'm not the tax guy. I'm the audit guy.

3 But I was also what we call the client service

4 coordinator, so I would really oversee all the

5 services our firm was providing to the company.

6 And in connection with that, we would -- we would

7 need to have some business meetings and

8 discussions with the company's attorneys.

9 Q What other clients did you work for that

10 Stewart Dolin also worked for?

11 A We were involved in representing a

12 company called La Francaise Bakery in the sale of

13 their business. And we were not the auditors and

14 recurring tax advisors for the company, but when

15 the company was in the process of selling their

16 business, we were -- we were called in to -- to

17 work with the company to do tax planning around

18 the sale of their business and reviewing the

19 documents. And Sachnoff and Weaver was also

20 involved in that deal, so we worked together on

21 that particular transaction on the sale of that

22 business.

23 Q What year was that?

24 A Oh, my gosh.

25 Q Roughly.

1 companies that I would be peripherally involved in

2 because I'm not the tax guy. I'm the audit guy.

3 But I was also what we call the client service

4 coordinator, so I would really oversee all the

5 services our firm was providing to the company.

6 And in connection with that, we would -- we would

7 need to have some business meetings and

8 discussions with the company's attorneys.

9 Q What other clients did you work for that

10 Stewart Dolin also worked for?

11 A We were involved in representing a

12 company called La Francaise Bakery in the sale of

13 their business. And we were not the auditors and

14 recurring tax advisors for the company, but when

15 the company was in the process of selling their

16 business, we were -- we were called in to -- to

17 work with the company to do tax planning around

18 the sale of their business and reviewing the

19 documents. And Sachnoff and Weaver was also

20 involved in that deal, so we worked together on

21 that particular transaction on the sale of that

22 business.

23 Q What year was that?

24 A Oh, my gosh.

25 Q Roughly.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 23

1 A Probably the mid-'90s. 1995, '96,

2 something like that.

3 Q Okay.

4 A More recently, I want to say four or so

5 years ago, Stewart referred me into a company

6 called Ed Miniat, M-I-N-I-A-T, located in a south

7 suburb of Chicago called South Holland, and he was

8 the trusted advisor and legal counsel to that

9 company and its shareholders. Privately owned

10 business. And we did some work, some consulting

11 work for that company. We did not have a

12 full-service relationship, but we did some

13 consulting work for that company regarding certain

14 tax matters.

15 Q Any other clients that Stewart Dolin

16 worked for that you also worked for?

17 A We did work on one other deal together.

18 It was a company called John Veleris,

19 V-E-L-E-R-I-S, and Associates. And I've worked

20 with John for many, many years, and he -- he's

21 a -- he's not a private equity guy. I would call

22 a high net worth family office, so to speak, that

23 acquires businesses from time to time. And they

24 were looking to acquire an RV company based in

25 Elkhart, Indiana, which is the RV capital of the

1 A Probably the mid-'90s. 1995, '96,

2 something like that.

3 Q Okay.

4 A More recently, I want to say four or so

5 years ago, Stewart referred me into a company

6 called Ed Miniat, M-I-N-I-A-T, located in a south

7 suburb of Chicago called South Holland, and he was

8 the trusted advisor and legal counsel to that

9 company and its shareholders. Privately owned

10 business. And we did some work, some consulting

11 work for that company. We did not have a

12 full-service relationship, but we did some

13 consulting work for that company regarding certain

14 tax matters.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 25

1 we're still doing some work. We're still doing

2 project work for Ed Miniat, and Reed Smith is

3 still representing the company.

4 Q Who did Stewart Dolin work with

5 out at Ed Miniat, Inc.?

6 A His primary relationship was with the CEO

7 of the company and one of the family

8 members/shareholders, and his named is David

9 Miniat, M-I-N-I-A-T.

10 Q Were there other family members of Ed

11 Miniat, Inc., that Stewart Dolin worked with?

12 A Not that I know of because the majority

13 of the family members were not active in the

14 business. Dave was running the company. And

15 there -- to be sure, there are other family

16 members that are -- that are owners in the

17 business, that have some percentage ownership of

18 the company, but there might be one other that

19 doesn't have an -- you know, an executive-level

20 position at the company that works at the company,

21 but the majority of shareholders of that company

22 aren't active in the business, which isn't

23 uncommon in a privately-owned business situation.

24 So I don't know. I don't know.

25 Q Can you -- can you tell us any of the

4 Q Who did Stewart Dolin work with

5 out at Ed Miniat, Inc.?

6 A His primary relationship was with the CEO

7 of the company and one of the family

8 members/shareholders, and his named is David

9 Miniat, M-I-N-I-A-T.

10 Q Were there other family members of Ed

11 Miniat, Inc., that Stewart Dolin worked with?

12 A Not that I know of because the majority

13 of the family members were not active in the

14 business. Dave was running the company. And

15 there -- to be sure, there are other family

16 members that are -- that are owners in the

17 business, that have some percentage ownership of

18 the company, but there might be one other that

19 doesn't have an -- you know, an executive-level

20 position at the company that works at the company,

21 but the majority of shareholders of that company

22 aren't active in the business, which isn't

23 uncommon in a privately-owned business situation.

24 So I don't know. I don't know.

25 Q Can you -- can you tell us any of the


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 26

1 names of the other family members that either were

2 not active in the business or this other

3 individual who you said may be active in some way?

4 A I don't know the names. I don't.

5 Q Does Ronald Miniat --

6 A Oh, Ron Miniat -- was that his brother or

7 father? Was he the older -- he might have been

8 the father. Was he?

9 Q I don't -- I don't remember.

10 A Oh, I remember -- I do remember the name

11 now that you say it. Please let the record show I

12 was not withholding any information. I honestly

13 didn't remember Ron Miniat. But I never met him.

14 I never met Ron Miniat. I don't know who he is.

15 Dave Miniat I talk to on occasion. And,

16 again, we -- we do work for the company based on,

17 you know, certain projects.

18 Q Have you and Dave Miniat ever spoken

19 about anything dealing with Stewart Dolin's death?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Thank you.

22 When did you speak with Dave

23 Miniat about that?

24 A I want to say it was shortly after his

25 death and not again. And it was really around the

1 names of the other family members that either were

2 not active in the business or this other

3 individual who you said may be active in some way?

4 A I don't know the names. I don't.

5 Q Does Ronald Miniat --

6 A Oh, Ron Miniat -- was that his brother or

7 father? Was he the older -- he might have been

8 the father. Was he?

9 Q I don't -- I don't remember.

10 A Oh, I remember -- I do remember the name

11 now that you say it. Please let the record show I

12 was not withholding any information. I honestly

13 didn't remember Ron Miniat. But I never met him.

14 I never met Ron Miniat. I don't know who he is.

15 Dave Miniat I talk to on occasion. And,

16 again, we -- we do work for the company based on,

17 you know, certain projects.

18 Q Have you and Dave Miniat ever spoken

19 about anything dealing with Stewart Dolin's death?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Thank you.

22 When did you speak with Dave

23 Miniat about that?

24 A I want to say it was shortly after his

25 death and not again. And it was really around the


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 27

1 context of, boy, what a tragedy.

2 Q Do you know of any meeting that was

3 scheduled at Ed Miniat, Inc. the day after Stewart

4 Dolin's death?

5 A No, I don't.

6 Q Did Ed Miniat -- excuse me.

7 Did Dave Miniat, when you talked to him

8 about Stewart Dolin's death, did he say that -- or

9 mention anything about any interactions that he

10 had had with Mr. Dolin prior to Mr. Dolin's death?

11 A No. Not that I can recall. No. No.

12 Q Was there anybody that comes to mind that

13 was somebody at Ed Miniat, Inc. that was

14 demanding or very challenging to work with?

15 A I mean, that's the life of working with

16 family businesses and privately-held companies.

17 There was a former controller by the name

18 of John Moulton who's since been retired. I mean,

19 he was a bit difficult to work with. He was

20 always very skeptical. He felt like he needed

21 to -- like he wasn't open in sharing information

22 that we frankly needed to get in order to do the

23 best job we could for them on the particular

24 project. I mean, we got there, but it was a bit

25 of a struggle.

1 context of, boy, what a tragedy.

2 Q Do you know of any meeting that was

3 scheduled at Ed Miniat, Inc. the day after Stewart

4 Dolin's death?

5 A No, I don't.

12 Q Was there anybody that comes to mind that

13 was somebody at Ed Miniat, Inc. that was

14 demanding or very challenging to work with?


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 45

1 Smith after the merger with the Sachnoff firm, was

2 there anybody to your knowledge that he was

3 particularly close with?

4 A No. I know that -- I mean, I went to his

5 funeral, and I know that there were people from

6 Reed Smith, and I know that the managing partner

7 of the firm spoke, LaVallo or Mike LaVallo or

8 something like that, right? But, you know, what

9 type of relationship they really had, I have no

10 idea.

11 Q Did Stewart Dolin ever share with you any

12 complaints he had about any of the clients that he

13 worked for, you know, in terms of individuals in

14 terms of -- difficulties interacting with anybody

15 at -- at a particular client?

16 A Other than what I mentioned maybe 20 or

17 so minutes ago regarding Tom Guido at John Veleris

18 & Associates, no.

19 Q When was the last time that you saw or

20 spoke with Stewart Dolin?

21 A It was -- it was in -- I don't remember

22 the date. It was in July of 2010. It was the day

23 that he took his life. Whenever -- I don't know.

24 15th, 14th. I don't know.

25 Q And what was it -- what was the occasion

19 Q When was the last time that you saw or

20 spoke with Stewart Dolin?

21 A It was -- it was in -- I don't remember

22 the date. It was in July of 2010. It was the day

23 that he took his life. Whenever -- I don't know.

24 15th, 14th. I don't know.

25 Q And what was it -- what was the occasion


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 46

1 by which you saw or spoke with Mr. Dolin?

2 A It was one of our touch points, last

3 periodic lunches that we had together that day.

4 Q Was that lunch a spur of the moment

5 lunch, or had it been planned before the day that

6 Stewart Dolin died?

7 A I'm sure -- I'm sure it had been

8 planned because -- only because, you know, you

9 need to schedule things in advance. So it would

10 have been -- I -- I don't recall just picking up

11 the phone and saying, hey, you know, can you step

12 out today.

13 Q I'll let -- I'll let you know that the

14 day that Stewart Dolin passed away was July 15,

15 2010. So I may reference it in some of my

16 questions --

17 A Okay. Sure.

18 Q -- so that's the date we're working with.

19 All right?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Where did the lunch take place on

22 July 15, 2010?

23 A Rivers Restaurant, which is in the same

24 building that the offices of Reed Smith are

25 located at 10 South Wacker Drive, Chicago. And

1 by which you saw or spoke with Mr. Dolin?

2 A It was one of our touch points, last

3 periodic lunches that we had together that day.

4 Q Was that lunch a spur of the moment

5 lunch, or had it been planned before the day that

6 Stewart Dolin died?

7 A I'm sure -- I'm sure it had been

8 planned because -- only because, you know, you

9 need to schedule things in advance. So it would

10 have been -- I -- I don't recall just picking up

11 the phone and saying, hey, you know, can you step

12 out today.

13 Q I'll let -- I'll let you know that the

14 day that Stewart Dolin passed away was July 15,

15 2010. So I may reference it in some of my

16 questions --

17 A Okay. Sure.

18 Q -- so that's the date we're working with.

19 All right?

20 A Yes.

21 Q Where did the lunch take place on

22 July 15, 2010?

23 A Rivers Restaurant, which is in the same

24 building that the offices of Reed Smith are

25 located at 10 South Wacker Drive, Chicago. And


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 47

1 our office is directly across the street from

2 there. So I mean it's just a very convenient

3 place.

4 Q Do you know the name of the building

5 where the lunch took place?

6 A Yes.

7 Q What's the name of it?

8 A It's the Chicago Mercantile Exchange

9 building. I believe that's what they call it.

10 CME, as it were.

11 Q Had you and Mr. Dolin met at the Rivers

12 Restaurant before for lunch?

13 A Yes. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't

14 remember everywhere we've gone, but I would say

15 that we've gone to Rivers before, only because

16 it's just so convenient, and it's right there,

17 and -- yeah.

18 Q Did anyone attend the lunch besides you

19 and Mr. Dolin?

20 A No.

21 Q And during the time that you interacted

22 with him from the moment you first saw him for the

23 lunch until he left, did either you or he see

24 anybody that you -- that you both knew?

25 A No. Not that I can remember.

1 our office is directly across the street from

2 there. So I mean it's just a very convenient

3 place.

4 Q Do you know the name of the building

5 where the lunch took place?

6 A Yes.

7 Q What's the name of it?

8 A It's the Chicago Mercantile Exchange

9 building. I believe that's what they call it.

10 CME, as it were.

11 Q Had you and Mr. Dolin met at the Rivers

12 Restaurant before for lunch?

13 A Yes. Yeah. I mean, I mean, I don't

14 remember everywhere we've gone, but I would say

15 that we've gone to Rivers before, only because

16 it's just so convenient, and it's right there,

17 and -- yeah.

18 Q Did anyone attend the lunch besides you

19 and Mr. Dolin?

20 A No.

21 Q And during the time that you interacted

22 with him from the moment you first saw him for the

23 lunch until he left, did either you or he see

24 anybody that you -- that you both knew?

25 A No. Not that I can remember.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 49

1 A I'm sorry. I don't.

2 Q Okay. Approximately what time did you

3 meet him there for lunch?

4 A 11:45. They take reservations on the 45.

5 So you either do an 11:45, or you do a 12:45.

6 And it was 11:45, and it's one of those

7 places where you need to have your party to be

8 seated. And so whoever arrived first -- it may

9 have been me. I don't remember. But whoever

10 arrived first would just stand and wait for the

11 other person, and then you go up to the -- to the

12 person up there, the hostess, and then they take

13 you to your seat.

14 Q And when Mr. Dolin walked up to you and

15 when you saw him for the first time for the lunch

16 meeting, did you notice anything abnormal or

17 unusual about how he walked?

18 A No.

19 Q And how did Mr. Dolin appear when you

20 first saw him? How did he look?

21 A He looked like I -- like he ordinarily

22 looks. I mean, I didn't notice -- it's a tough

23 question to answer. I mean, you know, what? He's

24 5'8, whatever he was.

25 I mean, he looked -- there was nothing at

2 Q Okay. Approximately what time did you

3 meet him there for lunch?

4 A 11:45. They take reservations on the 45.

5 So you either do an 11:45, or you do a 12:45.

6 And it was 11:45, and it's one of those

7 places where you need to have your party to be

8 seated. And so whoever arrived first -- it may

9 have been me. I don't remember. But whoever

10 arrived first would just stand and wait for the

11 other person, and then you go up to the -- to the

12 person up there, the hostess, and then they take

13 you to your seat.

14 Q And when Mr. Dolin walked up to you and

15 when you saw him for the first time for the lunch

16 meeting, did you notice anything abnormal or

17 unusual about how he walked?

18 A No.

19 Q And how did Mr. Dolin appear when you

20 first saw him? How did he look?

21 A He looked like I -- like he ordinarily

22 looks. I mean, I didn't notice -- it's a tough

23 question to answer. I mean, you know, what? He's

24 5'8, whatever he was.

25 I mean, he looked -- there was nothing at


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 50

1 all unusual other than, you know -- and I didn't

2 really think about it until we were sitting there

3 eating lunch, but he was wearing -- I think. I

4 hope I'm not wrong about this, but I'm reasonably

5 certain he was wearing a rather casual polo-styled

6 shirt, which I just remembered thinking, boy, that

7 was perhaps a bit uncharacteristic of him. Not --

8 not that, you know, the attorneys, particularly on

9 a really warm day in July, as the accountants, are

10 going to dress casual. I mean, we're not wearing

11 ties these days other than the bankers. But I

12 just thought it was perhaps a bit more casual than

13 I would think he would be dressed, notwithstanding

14 the heat of the summer.

15 Q Was -- to your knowledge was Reed Smith's

16 dress code at -- during the summer of 2010 allow

17 for people to wear casual clothes like Mr. Dolin

18 was wearing?

19 A I have no --

20 MR. WISNER: Objection. Misstates his

21 testimony.

22 THE WITNESS: Wait --

23 MR. DAVIS: Yeah. The lawyers may make

24 objections here and there, Mr. Schwartz, and

25 that's for the judge to rule on later.

1 all unusual other than, you know -- and I didn't

2 really think about it until we were sitting there

3 eating lunch, but he was wearing -- I think. I

4 hope I'm not wrong about this, but I'm reasonably

5 certain he was wearing a rather casual polo-styled

6 shirt, which I just remembered thinking, boy, that

7 was perhaps a bit uncharacteristic of him. Not --

8 not that, you know, the attorneys, particularly on

9 a really warm day in July, as the accountants, are

10 going to dress casual. I mean, we're not wearing

11 ties these days other than the bankers. But I

12 just thought it was perhaps a bit more casual than

13 I would think he would be dressed, notwithstanding

14 the heat of the summer.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 51

1 THE WITNESS: Okay.

2 BY MR. DAVIS

3 Q You can answer the question then.

4 A Sure. I have absolutely no knowledge of

5 Reed Smith's dress code --

6 Q So --

7 A -- for any time of the year.

8 Q So he -- your recollection is he was --

9 he may have been wearing a casual polo-style

10 shirt?

11 A Yes, that was striped. That had stripes.

12 And, you know, I don't know. Maybe it's

13 just me. But if it were a solid polo shirt, I

14 probably wouldn't have given it a second thought.

15 But it was just -- I don't know. It just struck

16 me as a bit more casual only because of the

17 stripes.

18 Q And was he wearing slacks?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And when you first saw him, did he appear

21 nervous or fidgety in any way?

22 A No.

23 Q And when you first saw him, was he pacing

24 back and forth?

25 A No.

8 Q So he -- your recollection is he was --

9 he may have been wearing a casual polo-style

10 shirt?

11 A Yes, that was striped. That had stripes.

12 And, you know, I don't know. Maybe it's

13 just me. But if it were a solid polo shirt, I

14 probably wouldn't have given it a second thought.

15 But it was just -- I don't know. It just struck

16 me as a bit more casual only because of the

17 stripes.

18 Q And was he wearing slacks?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And when you first saw him, did he appear

21 nervous or fidgety in any way?

22 A No.

23 Q And when you first saw him, was he pacing

24 back and forth?

25 A No.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 52

1 Q Did you and he shake hands when you saw

2 each other?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And was anything abnormal or unusual

5 about his handshake?

6 A No.

7 Q Did Stewart Dolin have any problems

8 controlling his hands when you and he shook hands?

9 A No.

10 Q And did Stewart Dolin and you exchange

11 greetings when you first saw each other? Hi, how

12 are you doing, good to see you, that sort of thing?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Anything unusual or abnormal about his

15 speech pattern?

16 A No.

17 Q And when you first saw him, is there

18 anything that you noticed where he had a problem

19 standing in one place?

20 A No. But I would preface that with

21 saying -- or qualify it, rather, with saying that

22 I don't know that we were standing in one place

23 for any length of time.

24 Q So both you and he were kind of moving

25 about?

1 Q Did you and he shake hands when you saw

2 each other?

3 A Yes.

4 Q And was anything abnormal or unusual

5 about his handshake?

6 A No.

7 Q Did Stewart Dolin have any problems

8 controlling his hands when you and he shook hands?

9 A No.

10 Q And did Stewart Dolin and you exchange

11 greetings when you first saw each other? Hi, how

12 are you doing, good to see you, that sort of thing?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Anything unusual or abnormal about his

15 speech pattern?

16 A No.

17 Q And when you first saw him, is there

18 anything that you noticed where he had a problem

19 standing in one place?

20 A No. But I would preface that with

21 saying -- or qualify it, rather, with saying that

22 I don't know that we were standing in one place

23 for any length of time.

24 Q So both you and he were kind of moving

25 about?


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 53

1 A Well, whoever got there first -- and,

2 again, I think it was me. Shook hands, good to

3 see you, what's going on. And then we just --

4 let's go. We walked to the hostess station and

5 then were seated.

6 Q And anything unusual that you observed

7 for Mr. Dolin -- strike that.

8 Anything unusual or out of the ordinary

9 that you noticed with Mr. Dolin as he walked to

10 the table to be seated?

11 A No.

12 Q Did he have any problems with his gait or

13 the manner in which he walked?

14 A No, not that I noticed.

15 Q Did you see any -- his hands fidgeting or

16 shaking or being jittery in any way when he

17 walked?

18 A No.

19 Q Any time that he walked to the table to

20 be seated, did he turn around and start pacing

21 from one point to another?

22 A No.

23 Q And were you and he talking as you walked

24 to the table together?

25 A I don't remember but my guess is

1 A Well, whoever got there first -- and,

2 again, I think it was me. Shook hands, good to

3 see you, what's going on. And then we just --

4 let's go. We walked to the hostess station and

5 then were seated.

6 Q And anything unusual that you observed

7 for Mr. Dolin -- strike that.

8 Anything unusual or out of the ordinary

9 that you noticed with Mr. Dolin as he walked to

10 the table to be seated?

11 A No.

12 Q Did he have any problems with his gait or

13 the manner in which he walked?

14 A No, not that I noticed.

15 Q Did you see any -- his hands fidgeting or

16 shaking or being jittery in any way when he

17 walked?

18 A No.

19 Q Any time that he walked to the table to

20 be seated, did he turn around and start pacing

21 from one point to another?

22 A No.

23 Q And were you and he talking as you walked

24 to the table together?

25 A I don't remember but my guess is


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 54

1 probably -- my educated guess is probably not,

2 because it's a noisy place, and the length of time

3 with which it takes to get seated or where you

4 have to walk, you know, depending on where your

5 table -- it doesn't -- it's -- you know, we're

6 talking about seconds.

7 Q And after you and he were seated, did you

8 and he order lunch?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And when -- I take it the waiter came up

11 and took an order?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And when the waiter was taking -- and I

14 take -- I take it the waiter took your order and

15 took Mr. Dolin's order?

16 A I don't have any recollections to who

17 went first.

18 Q Sure. But all my point is is that the

19 waiter came up and took you-all's order.

20 A Yes.

21 Q And you remember what he ordered?

22 A Yes.

23 Q What was it?

24 A He ordered a cashew chicken salad with an

25 iced tea.

1 probably -- my educated guess is probably not,

2 because it's a noisy place, and the length of time

3 with which it takes to get seated or where you

4 have to walk, you know, depending on where your

5 table -- it doesn't -- it's -- you know, we're

6 talking about seconds.

7 Q And after you and he were seated, did you

8 and he order lunch?

9 A Yes.

10 Q And when -- I take it the waiter came up

11 and took an order?

12 A Yes.

13 Q And when the waiter was taking -- and I

14 take -- I take it the waiter took your order and

15 took Mr. Dolin's order?

16 A I don't have any recollections to who

17 went first.

18 Q Sure. But all my point is is that the

19 waiter came up and took you-all's order.

20 A Yes.

21 Q And you remember what he ordered?

22 A Yes.

23 Q What was it?

24 A He ordered a cashew chicken salad with an

25 iced tea.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 55

1 Q And was there anything unusual or

2 abnormal about how he ordered lunch?

3 A Not that I noticed, no.

4 Q And did he have any speaking -- any

5 problems speaking with the waiter at any time

6 during the lunch, either while he was ordering or

7 some other time during the lunch?

8 A No.

9 Q And when he was making his order, did he

10 act abnormal or unusual in any way?

11 A No.

12 Q And when he ordered his lunch, did he

13 look nervous, fidgety, anxious, or jittery?

14 A No.

15 Q Did you notice anything unusual about his

16 hands or his legs during the time that you and he

17 were sitting down for lunch until the time that

18 you got up and left after the lunch?

19 A No.

20 Q Any other times while you and he were

21 sitting at lunch before you got up and -- both you

22 and he got up and left to leave that you noticed

23 where he appeared nervous, jittery, fidgety, or

24 anxious in any way?

25 A No, I didn't notice any of that.

1 Q And was there anything unusual or

2 abnormal about how he ordered lunch?

3 A Not that I noticed, no.

4 Q And did he have any speaking -- any

5 problems speaking with the waiter at any time

6 during the lunch, either while he was ordering or

7 some other time during the lunch?

8 A No.

9 Q And when he was making his order, did he

10 act abnormal or unusual in any way?

11 A No.

12 Q And when he ordered his lunch, did he

13 look nervous, fidgety, anxious, or jittery?

14 A No.


16 hands or his legs during the time that you and he

17 were sitting down for lunch until the time that

18 you got up and left after the lunch?

19 A No.

20 Q Any other times while you and he were

21 sitting at lunch before you got up and -- both you

22 and he got up and left to leave that you noticed

23 where he appeared nervous, jittery, fidgety, or

24 anxious in any way?

25 A No, I didn't notice any of that.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 56

1 Q Did he order any alcohol for lunch?

2 A No.

3 Q And after you and he sat down at the

4 table, did you and he have a -- have discussions

5 with each other?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Do you remember what you discussed?

8 A I remember some of what we discussed.

9 Q Sure.

10 Tell -- can you tell us what you remember

11 that you and he discussed at the lunch?

12 A Sure.

13 I know we talked about a particular

14 insurance professional at a firm called Gallagher

15 that I know, and I know that she's well connected

16 to the food industry. And I -- and I asked Stu if

17 he knew her and he didn't. And so I said that I

18 would be happy to make that introduction for him,

19 and I think that it would be someone that -- that

20 he ought to get to know because she could be a

21 good business contact for him, and I know that he

22 was appreciative of that.

23 We also talked about one of my clients

24 that didn't have an immediate need, but I thought

25 I could potentially facilitate an introduction,

1 Q Did he order any alcohol for lunch?

2 A No.

3 Q And after you and he sat down at the

4 table, did you and he have a -- have discussions

5 with each other?

6 A Yes.

7 Q Do you remember what you discussed?

8 A I remember some of what we discussed.

9 Q Sure.

10 Tell -- can you tell us what you remember

11 that you and he discussed at the lunch?

12 A Sure.

13 I know we talked about a particular

14 insurance professional at a firm called Gallagher

15 that I know, and I know that she's well connected

16 to the food industry. And I -- and I asked Stu if

17 he knew her and he didn't. And so I said that I

18 would be happy to make that introduction for him,

19 and I think that it would be someone that -- that

20 he ought to get to know because she could be a

21 good business contact for him, and I know that he

22 was appreciative of that.

23 We also talked about one of my clients

24 that didn't have an immediate need, but I thought

25 I could potentially facilitate an introduction,


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 57

1 whereby if something came up in the future from a

2 legal perspective, that he could -- he could get

3 to know these folks. And I was -- I said that I

4 would try and set that up, and he was -- he said

5 that would be great or something to that effect.

6 And that's frankly one of the things -- I

7 don't want to jump ahead or out of context here,

8 but that's one of the things that really, you

9 know -- I mean, a lot of things shocked me of

10 this. That was one of the things. Because, I

11 mean, I'm sitting there at this lunch, and you

12 know, we're talking about things potentially, you

13 know, in the future. Right? That there was going

14 to be some kind of follow-up on a go-forward

15 basis.

16 So it just caused me to think -- again, I

17 don't want to editorialize it. Just it caused me

18 to think, well, I mean, the guy can't be sitting

19 here thinking he's going to do this, you know, in

20 the next hour. I mean, first of all, he wouldn't

21 be sitting with me having a salad and iced tea.

22 And secondly, you know, we're talking about other

23 things on a go-forward basis, you know, regarding

24 that, that kind of stuff.

25 But anyway I'm sorry. I'll stick to your

1 whereby if something came up in the future from a

2 legal perspective, that he could -- he could get

3 to know these folks. And I was -- I said that I

4 would try and set that up, and he was -- he said

5 that would be great or something to that effect.

6 And that's frankly one of the things -- I

7 don't want to jump ahead or out of context here,

8 but that's one of the things that really, you

9 know -- I mean, a lot of things shocked me of

10 this. That was one of the things. Because, I

11 mean, I'm sitting there at this lunch, and you

12 know, we're talking about things potentially, you

13 know, in the future. Right? That there was going

14 to be some kind of follow-up on a go-forward

15 basis.

16 So it just caused me to think -- again, I

17 don't want to editorialize it. Just it caused me

18 to think, well, I mean, the guy can't be sitting

19 here thinking he's going to do this, you know, in

20 the next hour. I mean, first of all, he wouldn't

21 be sitting with me having a salad and iced tea.

22 And secondly, you know, we're talking about other

23 things on a go-forward basis, you know, regarding

24 that, that kind of stuff.

25 But anyway I'm sorry. I'll stick to your


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 58

1 question.

2 Q Yeah.

3 A I can't -- I can't think of much else

4 that was going -- that we really talked about.

5 Q Do you remember anything specifically

6 that he said during that -- during that lunch

7 conversation?

8 A I think he made mention of the fact that

9 business was picking up a bit at the firm; that

10 things were getting a bit better. Because he was

11 involved in deals, you know, mergers and

12 acquisitions. And, you know, in the -- in late

13 2008 into 2009 and spilling into '10 as well, I

14 mean, business was really tough, you know, for

15 that sector of the economy. I mean, people

16 weren't doing deals. And if you're a -- if you're

17 a deal attorney, you know, your business is going

18 to be down. I mean, it is.

19 But I think he was starting to see

20 some -- I think he said they're starting to see a

21 little bit of deal flow, and, you know, I vaguely

22 remember that. I mean, I don't know that we got

23 into it in a real deep way, but I vaguely remember

24 him saying something about that.

25 Q Did you get the sense from talking with

1 question.

2 Q Yeah.

3 A I can't -- I can't think of much else

4 that was going -- that we really talked about.

5 Q Do you remember anything specifically

6 that he said during that -- during that lunch

7 conversation?

8 A I think he made mention of the fact that

9 business was picking up a bit at the firm; that

10 things were getting a bit better. Because he was

11 involved in deals, you know, mergers and

12 acquisitions. And, you know, in the -- in late

13 2008 into 2009 and spilling into '10 as well, I

14 mean, business was really tough, you know, for

15 that sector of the economy. I mean, people

16 weren't doing deals. And if you're a -- if you're

17 a deal attorney, you know, your business is going

18 to be down. I mean, it is.

19 But I think he was starting to see

20 some -- I think he said they're starting to see a

21 little bit of deal flow, and, you know, I vaguely

22 remember that. I mean, I don't know that we got

23 into it in a real deep way, but I vaguely remember

24 him saying something about that.

25 Q Did you get the sense from talking with


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 59

1 him that it -- that his work had not been as busy

2 as it had been in the past?

3 A Well, if -- if when you say "the past,"

4 do you mean prior to, say, the fourth calendar

5 quarter of 2008? I would say sure, but he

6 wouldn't have to tell me that. That's just common

7 knowledge in the business community.

8 Q Did he make any mention of any transition

9 that he was -- was taking place with him at Reed

10 Smith where he would not be the chair of his

11 practice group but would be sharing that with

12 somebody else who would be a co-chair with him?

13 A No, he did not talk to me about that.

14 Q Did he have any discussions with you

15 about him thinking of no longer being at

16 Reed Smith or doing something differently at Reed

17 Smith than what he was currently doing?

18 A No.

19 Q During the time that you saw and

20 interacted with Stewart Dolin that day, did he

21 appear to be thinking clearly, to you?

22 MR. WISNER: Objection. Speculation.

23 THE WITNESS: He appeared to be thinking

24 clearly, yes.

25

1 him that it -- that his work had not been as busy

2 as it had been in the past?

3 A Well, if -- if when you say "the past,"

4 do you mean prior to, say, the fourth calendar

5 quarter of 2008? I would say sure, but he

6 wouldn't have to tell me that. That's just common

7 knowledge in the business community.

8 Q Did he make any mention of any transition

9 that he was -- was taking place with him at Reed

10 Smith where he would not be the chair of his

11 practice group but would be sharing that with

12 somebody else who would be a co-chair with him?

13 A No, he did not talk to me about that.

14 Q Did he have any discussions with you

15 about him thinking of no longer being at

16 Reed Smith or doing something differently at Reed

17 Smith than what he was currently doing?

18 A No.

19 Q During the time that you saw and

20 interacted with Stewart Dolin that day, did he

21 appear to be thinking clearly, to you?

23 THE WITNESS: He appeared to be thinking

24 clearly, yes.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 60

1 BY MR. DAVIS

2 Q Did he appear to you -- during the entire

3 time that you interacted and saw him that day, did

4 he say or do anything out of the ordinary?

5 A No.

6 Q During that entire time you saw him and

7 interacted with him, did he make any inappropriate

8 comments?

9 A No.

10 Q Did -- during the time that you saw and

11 interacted with him that day, did he appear to you

12 to be coherent and acting normally?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Was he able to carry on an intelligent

15 conversation with you?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Was he friendly with you as he had been

18 in the past?

19 A Yes.

20 Q During the entire time --

21 A Well -- I'm sorry.

22 Q Go ahead. You wanted to add something?

23 A I apologize. Thank you.

24 Friendly within the framework of the

25 business relationship that we had.

2 Q Did he appear to you -- during the entire

3 time that you interacted and saw him that day, did

4 he say or do anything out of the ordinary?

5 A No.

6 Q During that entire time you saw him and

7 interacted with him, did he make any inappropriate

8 comments?

9 A No.

10 Q Did -- during the time that you saw and

11 interacted with him that day, did he appear to you

12 to be coherent and acting normally?

13 A Yes.

14 Q Was he able to carry on an intelligent

15 conversation with you?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Was he friendly with you as he had been

18 in the past?

19 A Yes.

20 Q During the entire time --

21 A Well -- I'm sorry.

22 Q Go ahead. You wanted to add something?

23 A I apologize. Thank you.

24 Friendly within the framework of the

25 business relationship that we had.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 61

1 Q Sure.

2 And in the sense that -- did he act

3 toward you in any different way that he had not

4 acted toward you when you had prior lunches or had

5 prior dealings with him?

6 A No differently.

7 Q During the entire time that you-all were

8 sitting down for lunch, did you notice anything

9 unusual about his hands or his legs moving in

10 some agitated or uncontrolled way?

11 A No, I didn't notice.

12 Q During the entire time that you and he

13 were interacting with each other that day, did you

14 notice -- did you notice or observe any period of

15 time where he was fidgeting or nervous?

16 A No.

17 Q I take it that he -- you and he both ate

18 your lunch together.

19 A Yes.

20 Q And did he have any problems eating his

21 lunch in terms of handling the fork or picking up

22 the iced tea in any way?

23 A No, not that I observed. I mean, no.

24 Q And anytime that you were with him that

25 day, did he seem in a hurry?

1 Q Sure.

2 And in the sense that -- did he act

3 toward you in any different way that he had not

4 acted toward you when you had prior lunches or had

5 prior dealings with him?

6 A No differently.

7 Q During the entire time that you-all were

8 sitting down for lunch, did you notice anything

9 unusual about his hands or his legs moving in

10 some agitated or uncontrolled way?

11 A No, I didn't notice.

12 Q During the entire time that you and he

13 were interacting with each other that day, did you

14 notice -- did you notice or observe any period of

15 time where he was fidgeting or nervous?

16 A No.

17 Q I take it that he -- you and he both ate

18 your lunch together.

19 A Yes.

20 Q And did he have any problems eating his

21 lunch in terms of handling the fork or picking up

22 the iced tea in any way?

23 A No, not that I observed. I mean, no.

24 Q And anytime that you were with him that

25 day, did he seem in a hurry?


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 62

1 A No.

2 Q Did he seem excited in any way at any

3 time during the period you were with him?

4 A No.

5 Q Anytime after he sat down at the table,

6 did he get up and pace back and forth?

7 A No.

8 Q Did he make any comments that he was not

9 feeling well?

10 A No.

11 Q Did he say anything to say that he --

12 that he -- did he make any comments to suggest

13 that he -- let me strike that.

14 Anytime during the period that you saw

15 him that day, did he make any comment that he

16 wasn't feeling well?

17 A No.

18 Q Or that he wasn't feeling like himself?

19 A No.

20 Q During the interactions that you had with

21 him that day, did you observe anything out of the

22 ordinary or unusual where you thought he wasn't

23 acting like the Stewart Dolin that you had

24 interacted with previously?

25 A No.

1 A No.

2 Q Did he seem excited in any way at any

3 time during the period you were with him?

4 A No.

5 Q Anytime after he sat down at the table,

6 did he get up and pace back and forth?

7 A No.

8 Q Did he make any comments that he was not

9 feeling well?

10 A No.

11 Q Did he say anything to say that he --

12 that he -- did he make any comments to suggest

13 that he -- let me strike that.

14 Anytime during the period that you saw

15 him that day, did he make any comment that he

16 wasn't feeling well?

17 A No.

18 Q Or that he wasn't feeling like himself?

19 A No.

20 Q During the interactions that you had with

21 him that day, did you observe anything out of the

22 ordinary or unusual where you thought he wasn't

23 acting like the Stewart Dolin that you had

24 interacted with previously?

25 A No.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 63

1 Q Did you-all -- in terms of paying for

2 lunch, did you and he go Dutch, or did someone pay

3 for the other?

4 A I paid. We would generally take turns.

5 I don't know that we really necessarily kept

6 track, you know, of who paid last kind of thing.

7 We just didn't eat together that frequently. But

8 I paid.

9 Q And how long did the lunch last before

10 you and he parted company?

11 A Approximately one hour.

12 Q And when you and he left, I

13 assume that both you and he got up from the table?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And did you and he, before you parted

16 company, shake hands again?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And did you notice anything unusual about

19 his hands or -- when you shook hands with him?

20 A No.

21 Q Did you notice anything where he was

22 shaking his hands or his hands looked jittery or

23 nervous?

24 A No.

25 Q Did you notice, when you and he got up

1 Q Did you-all -- in terms of paying for

2 lunch, did you and he go Dutch, or did someone pay

3 for the other?

4 A I paid. We would generally take turns.

5 I don't know that we really necessarily kept

6 track, you know, of who paid last kind of thing.

7 We just didn't eat together that frequently. But

8 I paid.

9 Q And how long did the lunch last before

10 you and he parted company?

11 A Approximately one hour.

12 Q And when you and he left, I

13 assume that both you and he got up from the table?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And did you and he, before you parted

16 company, shake hands again?

17 A Yes.

18 Q And did you notice anything unusual about

19 his hands or -- when you shook hands with him?

20 A No.

21 Q Did you notice anything where he was

22 shaking his hands or his hands looked jittery or

23 nervous?

24 A No.

25 Q Did you notice, when you and he got up


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 64

1 from the table, did he have any problems getting

2 up from the table?

3 A No.

4 Q Did he have any problems with his leg

5 tapping up and down or looking jitter -- either of

6 his legs looking jittery or like he couldn't stand

7 in one place?

8 A No.

9 Q When you and he were saying your

10 good-byes to each other, did he look nervous,

11 anxious, fidgety, or jittery in any way?

12 A No.

13 Q Was there anything about -- strike that.

14 Was there anything abnormal or unusual

15 about Stewart Dolin's speech when you and he were

16 saying your good-byes to each other and parting

17 ways?

18 A No.

19 Q Was there anything abnormal or unusual

20 about how he acted after the lunch ended?

21 MR. WISNER: Objection. Asked and

22 answered.

23 BY MR. DAVIS

24 Q I'm sorry. You can go ahead.

25 A No. But we're talking about -- I mean,

1 from the table, did he have any problems getting

2 up from the table?

3 A No.

4 Q Did he have any problems with his leg

5 tapping up and down or looking jitter -- either of

6 his legs looking jittery or like he couldn't stand

7 in one place?

8 A No.

9 Q When you and he were saying your

10 good-byes to each other, did he look nervous,

11 anxious, fidgety, or jittery in any way?

12 A No.

13 Q Was there anything about -- strike that.

14 Was there anything abnormal or unusual

15 about Stewart Dolin's speech when you and he were

16 saying your good-byes to each other and parting

17 ways?

18 A No.

19 Q Was there anything abnormal or unusual

20 about how he acted after the lunch ended?

25 A No. But we're talking about -- I mean,


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 65

1 after the lunch ended -- you mean after we got up

2 and left the restaurant?

3 Q Yeah. You get up. You're leaving the

4 restaurant --

5 A Sure.

6 Q -- and you and he are getting ready to

7 part company and --

8 A Sure. No. Nothing unusual.

9 Q And when you and he were -- had ended the

10 lunch and were leaving, did he look like he was in

11 a hurry or excited in any way?

12 A No, no.

13 Q After you and he said good-bye to each

14 other, did you observe him as he walked away?

15 A Well, I think "observe" might be a bit --

16 a bit of a stretch, but I did see him walking to

17 the elevator bank where Reed Smith's offices are

18 located, and so I did see him walking toward that

19 elevator bank.

20 Q And did you see him actually get on the

21 elevator?

22 A No.

23 Q As he walked --

24 A There's a -- I'm sorry. No. I apologize.

25 You go ahead.

1 after the lunch ended -- you mean after we got up

2 and left the restaurant?

3 Q Yeah. You get up. You're leaving the

4 restaurant --

5 A Sure.

6 Q -- and you and he are getting ready to

7 part company and --

8 A Sure. No. Nothing unusual.

9 Q And when you and he were -- had ended the

10 lunch and were leaving, did he look like he was in

11 a hurry or excited in any way?

12 A No, no.

13 Q After you and he said good-bye to each

14 other, did you observe him as he walked away?

15 A Well, I think "observe" might be a bit --

16 a bit of a stretch, but I did see him walking to

17 the elevator bank where Reed Smith's offices are

18 located, and so I did see him walking toward that

19 elevator bank.

20 Q And did you see him actually get on the

21 elevator?

22 A No.

23 Q As he walked --

24 A There's a -- I'm sorry. No. I apologize.

25 You go ahead.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 66

1 Q No. Did you want to add something?

2 A I do.

3 Okay. So that building is such that you

4 can walk through the center of the building

5 without any kind of security requirements, you

6 know, key card or whatever it might be. But to

7 get into the elevator banks, you have to have a

8 key card. So he would have had to have had his

9 key card to be able to get into that elevator

10 bank, and then I wouldn't have been -- I

11 physically would not have been able to actually

12 see him getting onto the elevator only because

13 there's this wall, like, in the center of the

14 lobby area where --

15 Q I understand.

16 A -- the elevator bank is on the right of

17 it. And so I wouldn't have been able to see it.

18 Q As you saw him walking away, I guess

19 there's some point in time you see him walking

20 away. And does he turn the corner, and he's out

21 of sight after that?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And up until the point as you were

24 watching him up until he goes out of sight, was

25 he walking in any unusual or out of the ordinary

1 Q No. Did you want to add something?

2 A I do.

3 Okay. So that building is such that you

4 can walk through the center of the building

5 without any kind of security requirements, you

6 know, key card or whatever it might be. But to

7 get into the elevator banks, you have to have a

8 key card. So he would have had to have had his

9 key card to be able to get into that elevator

10 bank, and then I wouldn't have been -- I

11 physically would not have been able to actually

12 see him getting onto the elevator only because

13 there's this wall, like, in the center of the

14 lobby area where --

15 Q I understand.

16 A -- the elevator bank is on the right of

17 it. And so I wouldn't have been able to see it.

18 Q As you saw him walking away, I guess

19 there's some point in time you see him walking

20 away. And does he turn the corner, and he's out

21 of sight after that?

22 A Yes.

23 Q And up until the point as you were

24 watching him up until he goes out of sight, was

25 he walking in any unusual or out of the ordinary


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 67

1 way?

2 A No.

3 Q Was he -- did he look nervous

4 or fidgety as he walked away and until he got out

5 of sight?

6 A No, nothing.

7 Q And was he having any problems going in

8 the direction that he wanted to go as he walked

9 away and went out of sight?

10 A No.

11 Q And was he -- did he stop anywhere along

12 the way and pace back and forth before he went out

13 of sight?

14 A No.


16 hands or any of his body movements as he walked

17 away and before he went out of sight?

18 A No.

19 (WHEREUPON Exhibit 3 was marked for

20 identification.)

21 BY MR. DAVIS

22 Q Mr. Schwartz, I'm going to hand you

23 what's been marked as Exhibit 3 to your

24 deposition. Do you recognize this as an e-mail

25 that you sent to Wendy Dolin on September 15,

1 way?

2 A No.

3 Q Was he -- did he look nervous

4 or fidgety as he walked away and until he got out

5 of sight?

6 A No, nothing.

7 Q And was he having any problems going in

8 the direction that he wanted to go as he walked

9 away and went out of sight?

10 A No.

11 Q And was he -- did he stop anywhere along

12 the way and pace back and forth before he went out

13 of sight?

14 A No.


16 hands or any of his body movements as he walked

17 away and before he went out of sight?

18 A No.

19 (WHEREUPON Exhibit 3 was marked for

20 identification.)

21 BY MR. DAVIS

22 Q Mr. Schwartz, I'm going to hand you

23 what's been marked as Exhibit 3 to your

24 deposition. Do you recognize this as an e-mail

25 that you sent to Wendy Dolin on September 15,


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 68

1 2010?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And can you read for us what you wrote to

4 Wendy Dolin?

5 A Yes.

6 Oh, do you want for me to?

7 Q Yes. If you could read it out loud --

8 A Oh --

9 Q -- because I want to ask you --

10 A You just asked me if I could.

11 Q Good catch.

12 MR. WISNER: You could have been a

13 lawyer.

14 THE WITNESS: Well, I'm an auditor, you

15 know. I'm -- I'm just a dumb auditor.

16 Okay. So starting from "Wendy"?

17 BY MR. DAVIS

18 Q Yes.

19 A (Reading) "Wendy: First and foremost, I

20 am so sorry that this happened. Although I only

21 knew Stu professionally, we did know each other

22 for about ten years. I realize that I don't need

23 to tell you what a wonderful person and how

24 respected he was in the business community. The

25 first client that we shared was Ernie Levine

1 2010?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And can you read for us what you wrote to

4 Wendy Dolin?

5 A Yes.

19 A (Reading) "Wendy: First and foremost, I

20 am so sorry that this happened. Although I only

21 knew Stu professionally, we did know each other

22 for about ten years. I realize that I don't need

23 to tell you what a wonderful person and how

24 respected he was in the business community. The

25 first client that we shared was Ernie Levine


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 69

1 (Admiral Tool)."

2 Well, that's consistent; right?

3 "I have -- I have replayed the lunch in

4 my head numerous times, thinking about whether I

5 should have identified anything unusual about Stu.

6 "Unfortunately, I did not. It was a

7 perfectly normal lunch that we shared from time to

8 time. He ordered a cashew chicken salad and an

9 iced tea.

10 "And we spoke about a couple of follow-up

11 items that were to take place in the future,

12 (specifically him reaching out to an insurance

13 agent who could have been a referral source and

14 him calling a client of mine.) I absolutely do

15 not believe that he was contemplating the action

16 that he took while we were having lunch.

17 "We met that day at 11:45 and left the

18 restaurant (Rivers), shook hands and parted ways

19 at approximately 12:45 p.m."

20 Sorry I missed the a.m. on the 11:45.

21 "If you would like to speak with me,

22 please feel free to call. My office phone number

23 is 312.634.4421. My cell phone number is (blank)

24 and my home phone number is (blank). Sincerely,

25 Terry."

1 (Admiral Tool)."

2 Well, that's consistent; right?

3 "I have -- I have replayed the lunch in

4 my head numerous times, thinking about whether I

5 should have identified anything unusual about Stu.

6 "Unfortunately, I did not. It was a

7 perfectly normal lunch that we shared from time to

8 time. He ordered a cashew chicken salad and an

9 iced tea.

10 "And we spoke about a couple of follow-up

11 items that were to take place in the future,

12 (specifically him reaching out to an insurance

13 agent who could have been a referral source and

14 him calling a client of mine.) I absolutely do

15 not believe that he was contemplating the action

16 that he took while we were having lunch.

17 "We met that day at 11:45 and left the

18 restaurant (Rivers), shook hands and parted ways

19 at approximately 12:45 p.m."

20 Sorry I missed the a.m. on the 11:45.

21 "If you would like to speak with me,

22 please feel free to call. My office phone number

23 is 312.634.4421. My cell phone number is (blank)

24 and my home phone number is (blank). Sincerely,

25 Terry."


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 70

1 Q Okay. And do you stand by that

2 description of your observations and interactions

3 with Stewart Dolin on July 15, 2010?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Is this an e-mail that you sent to

6 Wendy --

7 A Oh, September. Okay. So I said a couple

8 of months. I mean, yeah.

9 Q Is this the e-mail -- can you describe

10 for me what were the circumstances why -- of how

11 you went and why you sent this e-mail to Wendy

12 Dolin?

13 A That's a really good question. I don't

14 remember.

15 Q You said earlier that she -- that Wendy

16 Dolin had reached out to you.

17 A I thought so, yeah.

18 Oh, she sent me an e-mail. She sent me

19 an e-mail wanting to talk. Oh, thank you. She

20 sent me an e-mail wanting to talk -- requesting to

21 talk to me, and this had to have been my response

22 to her. And then I gave her my numbers, you know.

23 However -- you know, whenever she wanted to call

24 me and discuss.

25 Q When you looked for the e-mails for

1 Q Okay. And do you stand by that

2 description of your observations and interactions

3 with Stewart Dolin on July 15, 2010?

4 A Yes.

5 Q Is this an e-mail that you sent to

6 Wendy --

7 A Oh, September. Okay. So I said a couple

8 of months. I mean, yeah.

9 Q Is this the e-mail -- can you describe

10 for me what were the circumstances why -- of how

11 you went and why you sent this e-mail to Wendy

12 Dolin?

13 A That's a really good question. I don't

14 remember.

15 Q You said earlier that she -- that Wendy

16 Dolin had reached out to you.

17 A I thought so, yeah.

18 Oh, she sent me an e-mail. She sent me

19 an e-mail wanting to talk. Oh, thank you. She

20 sent me an e-mail wanting to talk -- requesting to

21 talk to me, and this had to have been my response

22 to her. And then I gave her my numbers, you know.

23 However -- you know, whenever she wanted to call

24 me and discuss.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 72

1 this e-mail that's marked as Exhibit 3?

2 A I don't believe so.

3 Q Did you speak with her after you sent

4 this e-mail that's been marked as Exhibit 3?

5 A I'm almost certain we talked, yes. Yes,

6 we talked. I just don't remember that

7 conversation really well. I'm so sorry.

8 Q Do you remember anything that she asked

9 you about during that conversation?

10 A I know she -- well, we've had to have

11 talked. I just don't remember exactly when or if

12 she called me at work or at home or what. But I'm

13 almost sure we -- we talked. And she would

14 have -- she asked me about if I noticed anything

15 unusual about Stu that day, not in as granular

16 detail as you went through, but certainly the

17 spirit of her questions were very similar.

18 Q And did you tell her the same

19 thing that you had put in your e-mail that's been

20 marked as Exhibit 3?

21 A Yes.

22 Q And did you remember her telling

23 you that she had observed Mr. Dolin act unusual or

24 out of the ordinary in any way before his death?

25 A No.

22 Q And did you remember her telling

23 you that she had observed Mr. Dolin act unusual or

24 out of the ordinary in any way before his death?

25 A No.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 73

1 Q Did you ask her whether she had seen

2 Mr. Dolin act or behave unusual?

3 A No. I mean, I frankly wouldn't think it

4 was my place nor would it have been appropriate

5 for me to be asking her questions. I mean ...

6 Q I just wanted to know --

7 A Sure.

8 Q -- for some context.

9 Do you remember her making any reference

10 to any medication that Mr. Dolin had been on

11 before his death?

12 A No.

13 Q And at any time that you've spoken with

14 Wendy Dolin has she ever mentioned anything about

15 medication that Mr. Dolin was on at the

16 time of his death?

17 A No.

18 Q Did she make any mention to you whether

19 Stewart was seeing any doctor or therapist or

20 counselor of any kind?

21 A No.

22 Q Did she make any mention to you about

23 whether he was having anxiety or depression?

24 A No.

25 Q Did she make any mention to you that he

1 Q Did you ask her whether she had seen

2 Mr. Dolin act or behave unusual?

3 A No. I mean, I frankly wouldn't think it

4 was my place nor would it have been appropriate

5 for me to be asking her questions. I mean ...

6 Q I just wanted to know --

7 A Sure.

8 Q -- for some context.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 74

1 was not feeling well or -- before his death?

2 A No.

3 Q I think in your e-mail to her, you said

4 that you "have replayed the lunch in my head

5 numerous times, thinking about whether I should

6 have identified anything unusual about Stu.

7 Unfortunately I did not."

8 How many times do you think you've

9 probably replayed that lunch in your mind to see

10 if you could see -- if you could spot anything

11 unusual or out of the ordinary for Mr. Dolin?

12 A Several. After -- well, I learned about

13 what happened on -- it was a Thursday, I think,

14 and I learned about what happened on Friday, that

15 Friday morning. And, I mean, I don't know.

16 The -- few times the rest of that day and

17 over the weekend, I mean, I was thinking about it.

18 And I'm thinking, boy, should I have picked up on

19 something here, you know, where I could have, you

20 know, reached out and said are you okay. You

21 know, is there anything wrong? Where, you know,

22 maybe -- you know, maybe -- you know,

23 notwithstanding I really didn't have that type of

24 relationship with him. I mean, I had never met

25 Wendy. I knew he was married. I knew he lived

3 Q I think in your e-mail to her, you said

4 that you "have replayed the lunch in my head

5 numerous times, thinking about whether I should

6 have identified anything unusual about Stu.

7 Unfortunately I did not."

8 How many times do you think you've

9 probably replayed that lunch in your mind to see

10 if you could see -- if you could spot anything

11 unusual or out of the ordinary for Mr. Dolin?

12 A Several. After -- well, I learned about

13 what happened on -- it was a Thursday, I think,

14 and I learned about what happened on Friday, that

15 Friday morning. And, I mean, I don't know.

16 The -- few times the rest of that day and

17 over the weekend, I mean, I was thinking about it.

18 And I'm thinking, boy, should I have picked up on

19 something here, you know, where I could have, you

20 know, reached out and said are you okay. You

21 know, is there anything wrong? Where, you know,

22 maybe -- you know, maybe -- you know,

23 notwithstanding I really didn't have that type of

24 relationship with him. I mean, I had never met

25 Wendy. I knew he was married. I knew he lived


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 75

1 somewhere on the North Shore area of Chicagoland.

2 I didn't know how many kids he had. I didn't know

3 how old they were. I mean, I knew about how old

4 he is -- or was. You know, just ... But, um ...

5 Yeah. So ...

6 Q And in connection with today's

7 deposition, have you again kind of replayed in

8 your mind that lunch to see whether or not there's

9 anything you could have spotted or recognized from

10 Mr. Dolin that was out of the ordinary or unusual?

11 A I thought about it. I did think again

12 about that lunch. And, I mean, unfortunately,

13 maybe with the passage of time, I mean, there were

14 things I just -- I just couldn't remember. I

15 mean, I can't sit here now and remember, you know,

16 all the details of that. I just -- I'm sorry. I

17 just can't.

18 Q For today's deposition, have you given us

19 your best recollection of what you remember from

20 that lunch?

21 A Yes.

22 MR. WISNER: Todd, if you're coming to an

23 end or coming to a transition, I'd like to use

24 the restroom if we could.

25 MR. DAVIS: Yeah. Why don't we take a --

1 somewhere on the North Shore area of Chicagoland.

2 I didn't know how many kids he had. I didn't know

3 how old they were. I mean, I knew about how old

4 he is -- or was. You know, just ... But, um ...

5 Yeah. So ...

6 Q And in connection with today's

7 deposition, have you again kind of replayed in

8 your mind that lunch to see whether or not there's

9 anything you could have spotted or recognized from

10 Mr. Dolin that was out of the ordinary or unusual?

11 A I thought about it. I did think again

12 about that lunch. And, I mean, unfortunately,

13 maybe with the passage of time, I mean, there were

14 things I just -- I just couldn't remember. I

15 mean, I can't sit here now and remember, you know,

16 all the details of that. I just -- I'm sorry. I

17 just can't.

18 Q For today's deposition, have you given us

19 your best recollection of what you remember from

20 that lunch?

21 A Yes.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 79

1 how -- very specifically how he did it, I don't

2 believe she mentioned anything about that. I

3 don't know that she knew -- well, I don't know,

4 but she didn't mention it to me.

5 Q When you had the lunch with him, at any

6 time that you were speaking with him that day and

7 talking with him that day, did he mention anything

8 about a meeting that he had the following day?

9 A No.

10 Q Did he -- during the time that you saw

11 him on July 15, 2010, did he mention any issues or

12 problems that he was having with any individual or

13 any client?

14 A No.

15 Q When you met with him that day for lunch,

16 did you -- did he mention to you what he had --

17 what he had done before he had seen you or what he

18 planned to do after you and he had lunch?

19 A No.

20 Q Have you ever spoken with anyone at Ed

21 Miniat about Stewart Dolin's death?

22 A Yes.

23 Q Who have you spoken with?

24 A I spoke with Dave Miniat about it. I

25 think we covered this --

5 Q When you had the lunch with him, at any

6 time that you were speaking with him that day and

7 talking with him that day, did he mention anything

8 about a meeting that he had the following day?

9 A No.

10 Q Did he -- during the time that you saw

11 him on July 15, 2010, did he mention any issues or

12 problems that he was having with any individual or

13 any client?

14 A No.

15 Q When you met with him that day for lunch,

16 did you -- did he mention to you what he had --

17 what he had done before he had seen you or what he

18 planned to do after you and he had lunch?

19 A No.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 89

1 Q Fair enough.

2 How did he respond to the obstacles or

3 problems that would arise in your

4 working relationship?

5 A With a high degree of professionalism and

6 creativity. And I -- I, frankly, respected him.

7 I -- you know, we -- when -- particularly on --

8 not so much on the -- you know, the day-to-day

9 maintenance of the -- you know, the corporate

10 records and, you know, all of those kinds of things

11 regarding minutes and all the rest. I mean,

12 that's kind of the routine stuff. But when you're

13 working on deals and transactions and you're

14 looking at certain things that require a bit more

15 thought leadership and creativity and things like

16 that, I thought he really stepped up when I worked

17 with him.

18 Q And in your working relationship with

19 Mr. Dolin, did he generally -- was he generally

20 optimistic?

21 A Yes. However, I -- I mean -- if to

22 contrast that with him being pessimistic, I would

23 say that he was more on the optimistic side of

24 things; that, you know, as in, we'll work through

25 this, and it'll get done.

18 Q And in your working relationship with

19 Mr. Dolin, did he generally -- was he generally

20 optimistic?

21 A Yes. However, I -- I mean -- if to

22 contrast that with him being pessimistic, I would

23 say that he was more on the optimistic side of

24 things; that, you know, as in, we'll work through

25 this, and it'll get done.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 90

1 Q That's sort of exactly where I was

2 getting.

3 A Okay.

4 Q Did he focus in on the problems and

5 obstacles as though they were insurmountable, or

6 did he generally --

7 A No.

8 Q -- feel like he could succeed?

9 A I'm sorry. I should have waited for you

10 to answer. I apologize.

11 Q That's fine.

12 A You trained me well. I'll get that right

13 next time.

14 Yes. Like, we could -- we'd figure it

15 out.

16 Q Okay.

17 A You know, compromise through, you know,

18 whatever it is. You know, we'll get past this

19 issue.

20 Q You mentioned in your testimony that you

21 guys would have "touch points." I never heard

22 that phrase. What is it?

23 A That would be just a communication, be it

24 a phone call, or be it a lunch, or be it a phone

25 discussion.

4 Q Did he focus in on the problems and

5 obstacles as though they were insurmountable, or

6 did he generally --

7 A No.

20 Q You mentioned in your testimony that you

21 guys would have "touch points." I never heard

22 that phrase. What is it?

23 A That would be just a communication, be it

24 a phone call, or be it a lunch, or be it a phone

25 discussion.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 91

1 Q Is that similar to, like, the phrase

2 "touching base" or something like that?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Okay. You mentioned that you believed he

5 was wearing a polo-type shirt on the -- on

6 July 15, 2010?

7 A I believe so. I -- I hope I'm not wrong

8 about this, but I'm -- it just -- it resonates

9 with me. It just kind of did.

10 Q I want to make sure I understand what you

11 mean by that.

12 Does that mean it did not have buttons

13 that went all the way down?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay. So right now what you're wearing

16 is not a polo-type shirt?

17 A Correct.

18 Q Okay. And you mentioned that it was

19 striped. Do you remember what color?

20 A No. But I do remember it was on the

21 lighter side of the color scheme or whatever you

22 call that. I don't know.

23 Q Okay. If you were to learn that he was,

24 in fact, wearing a blue dress shirt that was

25 striped at the time of his death, would that

1 Q Is that similar to, like, the phrase

2 "touching base" or something like that?

3 A Yes.

4 Q Okay. You mentioned that you believed he

5 was wearing a polo-type shirt on the -- on

6 July 15, 2010?

7 A I believe so. I -- I hope I'm not wrong

8 about this, but I'm -- it just -- it resonates

9 with me. It just kind of did.

10 Q I want to make sure I understand what you

11 mean by that.

12 Does that mean it did not have buttons

13 that went all the way down?

14 A Yes.

15 Q Okay. So right now what you're wearing

16 is not a polo-type shirt?

17 A Correct.

18 Q Okay. And you mentioned that it was

19 striped. Do you remember what color?

20 A No. But I do remember it was on the

21 lighter side of the color scheme or whatever you

22 call that. I don't know.

23 Q Okay. If you were to learn that he was,

24 in fact, wearing a blue dress shirt that was

25 striped at the time of his death, would that


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 92

1 surprise you?

2 MR. DAVIS: Objection. Form.

3 THE WITNESS: It wouldn't surprise me.

4 BY MR. WISNER

5 Q Why wouldn't it --

6 A Dramatically. I just -- I mean, it might

7 have. I just remembered something about his

8 shirt that -- and I just -- it just -- I guess it

9 wouldn't surprise me because it was as many years

10 ago as it was, and I really hadn't focused on that

11 part of -- of our -- of our encounter that day

12 until one of you asked me a question, and I

13 thought, yeah, maybe that was a bit out of

14 character for him. Just like it was out of

15 character for him to -- to go to the elevated

16 track, you know, the L train. I mean, he would

17 never take the L, you know. I mean, the guy was a

18 high-powered lawyer. I mean, he just wouldn't

19 have done it.

20 Q Well, one of the questions -- actually I

21 want to get to that in one second --

22 A Oh, sure.

23 Q -- I just want to follow up with the polo

24 shirt.

25 Was the shirt that he was wearing, was it

1 surprise you?

3 THE WITNESS: It wouldn't surprise me.


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 93

1 tucked in?

2 A I believe so. I believe so.

3 Q Okay. And I don't mean to be coy here,

4 but would you consider yourself a very observant

5 person?

6 A Moderately.

7 Q Okay.

8 A My wife might have a different answer,

9 but ...

10 Q Fair enough.

11 A Like not at all, but ...

12 Q At the restaurant that you were at, I

13 believe you said it was Rivers, was it a busy

14 restaurant?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Lot of noise?

17 A Yes.

18 Q A lot of people walking around? I'm

19 sorry --

20 A No, no.

21 Q Let me rephrase that.

22 A lot of waiters walking around?

23 A Yes. I mean, people -- no, not patrons,

24 the waiters and wait staff, whatever, yes.

25 Q And during that lunch, were you paying

12 Q At the restaurant that you were at, I

13 believe you said it was Rivers, was it a busy

14 restaurant?

15 A Yes.

16 Q Lot of noise?

17 A Yes.

18 Q A lot of people walking around? I'm

19 sorry --

20 A No, no.

21 Q Let me rephrase that.

22 A lot of waiters walking around?

23 A Yes. I mean, people -- no, not patrons,

24 the waiters and wait staff, whatever, yes.

25 Q And during that lunch, were you paying


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 94

1 any close observation to the way that Mr. Dolin

2 looked?

3 MR. DAVIS: Object to form.

4 THE WITNESS: No, I won't say close

5 observation.

6 BY MR. WISNER

7 Q Is it possible, based on the way that you

8 were sitting at the table, that he could have been

9 tapping his leg under the table but you couldn't

10 have seen it?

11 MR. DAVIS: Object to form.

12 THE WITNESS: Yes.

13 BY MR. WISNER

14 Q When you're generally having lunch with a

15 business associate such as Mr. Dolin, do you

16 typically pay attention to their physical

17 mannerisms?

18 A No. I mean -- I'm sorry. Can I finish?

19 Q Please.

20 A Okay. No, but if -- I don't know that

21 I've encountered this frankly in my, you know,

22 working career. But, I mean, if someone does

23 something, you know, abundantly obvious that

24 just strikes me as really uncharacteristic of -- I

25 don't know -- rational behavior, I think I would

1 any close observation to the way that Mr. Dolin

2 looked?

4 THE WITNESS: No, I won't say close

5 observation.

7 Q Is it possible, based on the way that you

8 were sitting at the table, that he could have been

9 tapping his leg under the table but you couldn't

10 have seen it?

12 THE WITNESS: Yes.

14 Q When you're generally having lunch with a

15 business associate such as Mr. Dolin, do you

16 typically pay attention to their physical

17 mannerisms?

18 A No. I mean -- I'm sorry. Can I finish?

19 Q Please.

20 A Okay. No, but if -- I don't know that

21 I've encountered this frankly in my, you know,

22 working career. But, I mean, if someone does

23 something, you know, abundantly obvious that

24 just strikes me as really uncharacteristic of -- I

25 don't know -- rational behavior, I think I would


Terry J. Schwartz


Page 95

1 notice that.

2 Q And you didn't see anything that was

3 uncharacteristic or irrational at the time?

4 A No.

5 Q Okay. You said that you can't imagine

6 that Stewart would be riding the L train. Can you

7 please explain what you meant by that?

8 A Sure. He -- I believed him to be rather

9 successful in his -- in his career. And I think

10 he drove a lot. I think he primarily drove when

11 he would come downtown or go to clients or

12 whatever it is he did. And I just wouldn't --

13 wouldn't view him as an L guy.

14 Q Okay.

15 A Particularly -- particularly on -- well,

16 never, but particularly on a really hot day when,

17 you know, in Chicago those L trains -- I mean,

18 some of them are air conditioned and some aren't

19 and all that. I just -- I just couldn't imagine

20 that he would do that.

21 I mean, the only time anyone, you know,

22 who doesn't live in the city, who lives in the

23 suburbs -- well, this is generalizing. But I

24 guess in the professional business community, I

25 mean, people generally only take the Ls when

1 notice that.

2 Q And you didn't see anything that was

3 uncharacteristic or irrational at the time?

4 A No.


Documents

Exhibit 8 - Baum Hedlund Aristei & Goldman · 2020. 10. 15. · Pennsylvania corporation; MYLAN, ) INC., a Pennsylvania corporation; ) and H.D. SMITH WHOLESALE DRUG CO.,) a Delaware