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May-June 2019 – Volume 10, Number 2

Cover Photo and photo at right of Ralph Peterson

By Ken Weiss

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CONTENTSCONTENTS

CLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTSCLUBS, CONCERTS, EVENTS 13 Calendar of Events 18 Clubs & Venue Listings

20 Ralph Peterson by Ken Weiss

INTERVIEWSINTERVIEWS 4 Ingrid Jensen

11 Nicole Henry 30 Ernie Watts

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JI: When I’m writing I’m tweaking this idea and

tweaking that one, and agonizing over one chord or

note. Then I think, “gee I should be practicing for a

couple of hours. I just wasted two hours. Was it all

for that one note? Was it really a waste though?

IJ: Absolutely, it’s a real challenge to find a bal-

ance. That’s what I would say about writing and

playing together. On top of that I’m constantly

doing different gigs with different people. I’m

learning their music or I’m working on other peo-

ple’s music for upcoming projects. Or trying to

learn my own music that I just wrote so… It’s a

very thick adventure. Thick and complex.

JI: And you get excited about music. You don’t

want to stop. It’s like, “well gee I’m not playing ...

I have a day or two off ... I want to practice. I want

to do this, I want to do that.” Then you realize you

burnt yourself out.

IJ: Yeah, there’s a lot of pacing involved with all

of it. One of the things that I love, that I haven’t

been doing recently enough because I got too busy

recently is—way more important than practicing—

sitting at home doing long tones. Or, writing a tune

because it gets you out of that space. Then I come

back and I feel much more in flow with the music

and with my creativity. I feel that it is really im-

portant to get the fundamental of sound together.

That’s what practicing basics to me is—long tones,

and getting inside of a rhythm while practicing

those long tones. Also, using the imagination to

almost feel like you are playing on a tune without

playing big fancy solos. It is more about hearing all

the integral parts of the

chord. So my basic prac-

ticing consists of long

notes, then simple exer-

cises through all keys ...

some kind of idea ...

some kind of technical

idea—just so I have the

fluency and the fluency

in my sound and on my

horn. That’s basically

my practicing while I’m

working on other peo-

ple’s music.

JI: What kinds of chal-

lenges do you experi-

ence playing with a big band as opposed to a small

group?

IJ: The challenges and limitations for me usually

have to do with my ego wanting to play more solos

because most of the time I’m playing fourth trum-

pet parts—which I love to play—with Maria’s

[Schnieder’s] band and playing with other big

bands. I just love to be under the lead, but just dou-

bling it. Sometimes I’m in a real intense crunch in

the voicing. It’s kind of energizing for the chops to

be in that situation. I just feel like I had this great

work out at the end of a big band gig. When I hear

all these great soloists and great players, and I’m

playing in such an inspired situation, I want to be

more involved as a soloist. That’s the lesson that I

learn on pretty much every gig. You get one shot in

the set and that in itself is a total gift.

JI: Can you cite several of the big bands that you

worked with and compare the leadership styles and

the direction of each?

IJ: Sure, actually the big band setting is a really

important part of my roots. Where I come from, we

had this big band. Dianna Krall played in it. My

sister played in it. All the up and coming talents in

the town played in that band. It will always be sort

of the role model for me as far as a healthy big

band feeling goes. It was an integrated band, of old

cats mentoring the young cats. This was on Van-

couver Island. We played swing dances. We used

the money we made from the swing dances to buy

all the hip charts: Brookmeyer, Thad Jones, Toshi-

ko Akiyoshi. We would rehearse every Wednes-

day. There was no money to be made whatsoever.

So that idea of fun and the spirit of fun in that big

band has always been in the back of my mind when

I play with a large ensemble. Since those days, I’ve

played with a number of big bands at Berklee in

Boston. In Denmark, I played a little bit with Ernie

Wilkins’ band. It was a little big band. Then, when

I moved to new York I was working with Diva—an

all woman band—for a while. I also got to do some

gigs with the Mingus band. Darcy James Argue

just started up a band which is called Secret Socie-

ty. He’s a fantastic composer. It’s really about indi-

viduality and writing for the moment, and writing

from a place that is truly your own original, and

inspired.

JI: What kinds of things did you pick up when you

were working with Ernie Wilkins?

IJ: It was such a long time ago. It was right after I

finished Berklee. I only really sat in with the band.

I finished my degree at Berklee in Boston and then

I moved directly to Copenhagen, just to practice.

My Aunt let me stay at her house. I had all these

cassettes that I was transcribing. I met Ernie just

hanging out. I got more from him just hanging out

listening and talking about the Basie days. I wasn’t

thinking about writing or composing back then. I

wish I had because I would have picked his brain

“[Mary Lou Williams’] music has influenced so many of the people that I knew about before I

knew about her ... Monk … Bird asked her to be in his band … There are all these incredible stories

of how much of an effect she had on people. Dizzy came over and she showed him some stuff on that piano and helped him figure out his concept. This is the one concept for me that makes sense—you

pay homage to a figure that deserves it.”

Ingrid Jensen

“I can’t wait to see where it’s going to go next”

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW


more. I just learned more about this camaraderie,

this family feeling. It came from all the bands that

he was involved with.

JI: Did you have an opportunity to solo a lot when

you were playing with the Mingus Band?

IJ: They gave a lot of space to blow. The Mingus

band as you know is sometimes just stand-up-and-

fight-for-your-space. The first set I did with the

band, I didn’t realize that that’s how it worked. If

you didn’t jump up and start blowing you were

going to get “blowed” over. I think, Earl Gardner

was there and he said, “just get up.” He almost

pushed me up. I started playing and it was always

fun. They let me blow on a couple of tunes on eve-

ry set.

JI: I sometimes wonder if all-women bands are

somehow self-marginalizing themselves.

IJ: Absolutely. That’s a valid observation about the

state of women in jazz. I am not knocking the band,

or the women in the band. There are some fantastic

players in the band. They’re playing incredible

challenging music. It’s very exciting. Women are

getting a lot of experience from all women pro-

jects. It gives them an opportunity. The opportunity

thing is a little misleading as far as what you need

in music as people. I think that the “ghettoization”

takes place when you have these concepts as all

women, or all black, or all white, or all anything.

It’s the concept that breaks down the integrity of

the music. It’s kind of an insult to each individu-

al—as far as where they come from musically.

That’s because they are no longer there for a true

purpose of being passionate about something.

They’re there because they were made a certain

way. They were born a certain color, or born a

certain sex, and they can play their instrument. It’s

a very marginalized market that takes place when

that happens. It kind of puts things out of perspec-

tive for me. If it is about the music, it is about the

music period. The one all-women’s festival that I

really respect is the Mary Lou Williams Festival. I

have a soft spot for it because of Dr. Billy Taylor.

He [didn’t] really see the festival as a bunch of

women. He [saw] it as a celebration of his friend

Mary Lou Williams. He [gave] her this kind of nod

that she deserves. Every year he [brought] people

to her music. Her music has influenced so many of

the people that I knew about before I knew about

her. That excites me too. Monk hung out with her.

Bird asked her to be in his band and she turned him

down. There are all these incredible stories of how

much of an effect she had on people. Dizzy came

over and she showed him some stuff on that piano

and helped him figure out his concept. This is the

one concept for me that makes sense—you pay

homage to a figure that deserves it. There’s so

much to still learn about them. I recently turned

down an offer to play in an all-women’s festival.

I’m pretty well done doing these all-women festi-

vals because I don’t feel that at this point in my

career I need to do that. I also feel that it’s an un-

fair marketing ploy. It’s creating this ghetto that’s

not really going to help. Why not just have a festi-

val of music ... or a tribute to an artist that I relate

to. But to complete my thought on this… The

whole idea of just working with a group of people,

just because they are from a certain place, or a

certain sex, limits that opportunity to go into those

few spaces that I like to go into.

JI: I think that if we want to include people and

expand the music, then segregating and excluding

people has the potential to interrupt or disconnect

us from Source or creative source energy.

IJ: You’re interrupting that source energy, I think,

if you’re forcing something into a certain kind of

environment that it doesn’t need to be in. As a

woman, I know I have a certain energy to bring to

music. The guys I play with are sensitive to that,

and appreciate that. I recently did a tour with three

women and two men and I didn’t even think about

it. People came up to us and said, “Oh wow it was

really nice to see all those women up there.” I did-

n’t even realize it. Oh yeah, there are three of us

and two of them. Geez, whatever! We’re just play-

ing. I can guarantee that not even one person on

that stage even thought about that. I hope that an-

swers the question eloquently. I don’t want in any-

way to sound like I’m putting down my experience

with Diva. It was positive. I learned how to play

the trumpet better by playing beside the lead play-

er, Liesl Whitaker. She is one of the greatest lead

players in the world.

JI: Trumpet is often an instrument where there can

be a lot of pyrotechnics involved. Many trumpet

players are overwhelmed by Maynard Ferguson

and his technique. Can you talk about the tempta-

tion to be drawn to technique over the music itself

that artists experience, and how that has affected

you?

IJ: Well, the trumpet for me was very challenging

at the very beginning. The most challenging part

for me was that I couldn’t stand the sound that was

coming out of my bell when I would blow air

through it. That sounds like a trumpet. It sounds

brittle and kind of narrow and it doesn’t sound

anything like a voice. Having grown up listening to

Louis Armstrong, and knowing how warm a sound

can translate through the trumpet, I was extremely

freaked out. I would never get a chance to get that

together. I immediately started doing little exercis-

es, somebody must have said something to me. I

remember sitting in the band room during lunch

hours playing one note and then singing that note,

and then playing it again, trying to get the same

sound of my voice to come out of the trumpet. That

obsession early on helped me to stay away from

being a trumpeter. I didn’t want to play the trum-

pet. I wanted to play the trombone. Just knowing

that sound, and knowing the vocal sound, was my

goal. It kept me from ever wanting to play scream-

ing high notes. Although, I realized later on in my

playing career that I needed to have those high

notes. I heard Booker Little playing all those crazy

intervals and I went wait a minute I got to get this

together. That was when, all of a sudden, I realized

that I realized I was stressing out my chops and

getting tired of not having any kind of endurance. I

was trying so hard to get up the register. So yes, in

answer to your question, yes I did want to be a

trumpet player at some point and play the trumpet

in that way. When I got all my chops together, I

studied with Laurie Frink here in New York. She

taught me the Caruso thing. She’s such a great

teacher. At that time, I was actually working at the

Waldorf Astoria at a day gig. All I had time to do

was play technical stuff on the trumpet—The Car-

mine Caruso technique. I did it every day religious-

ly. Her teaching was so thorough and so great that

it helped me put together my chops that had never

been before. All of a sudden I had some screaming

double G’s and lots of heavily articulated notes.

(Continued from page 4)

(Continued on page 6)

“Her teaching was so thorough and so great that it helped me put together my chops that had never been before. All of a sudden I had

some screaming double G’s and lots of heavily articulated notes. Things got a little out of control and I just wanted to play high all the time. Eventually I brought the two together—the idea of music and

chops. I went to being a musician first and a trumpet player second.”

— Anton Chekhov

“Encroachment of freedom will not come

about through one violent action or movement but will come about

through a series of actions that appear to be unrelated and coincidental, but

that were all along systematically planned for dictatorship.”

— John Adams, 2nd President

Ingrid Jensen


Things got a little out of control and I just wanted

to play high all the time. Eventually I brought the

two together—the idea of music and chops. I went

to being a musician first and a trumpet player sec-

ond. This allowed me to combine those two con-

cepts and play the way I play.

JI: I always learned a lot from teaching. It rein-

forced the kinds of things I wanted to play. Maybe

you could talk a little bit about the kinds of teach-

ing that you do, and how that experience as a clini-

cian and educator has helped you as an artist or

enhanced your creativity.

IJ: I come from a whole family of teachers. My

mother was a grade school teacher. Then she went

back to school. My stepfather is a principal of an

elementary school. The teaching mentality is just

one that came naturally. I saw my mom preparing

her lessons. I would go to her class and watch her

teach. I realized that being able to translate this gift

of music into words, and to inspire other people to

play and want to go practice and want to go play,

was definitely something I couldn’t avoid. I wanted

to just be a player, an artist and a writer and never

teach. But every time I get around a group of stu-

dents who are interested and who are excited about

music, it charges me up with a certain energy that I

can’t explain. It’s like the playing energy I get

when I play with great musicians. It’s a whole oth-

er vibe. It’s like a drug you get injected with—with

all these different personalities and you see these

sparks going off. You see them wanting to go for it

and express themselves. So that is what teaching is

to me. It’s a real thrill and it helps me to formulate

my ideas more clearly, and to learn how to explain

them. It forces me into a position where I have to

be able to do what I’m teaching. If I’m going to tell

a kid to do something, then I better be able to do it

too. I just love it because when I’m teaching trum-

pet students, it gives me a chance to sit at the pi-

ano, and play some chords ... and listen to them,

and maybe interact a little with them. If it’s their

first time improvising, they get a feeling of what

it’s like to not play with a play-along record, but to

play with a live person—and to just start that flow

of creativity going. Those play-along records aren’t

going to interact with you. I encourage kids a lot. If

you only have a bass player in your band that can

play, and you’re playing saxophone, just play as a

duo with them. That’s going to get the creative

juices flowing a lot better then just playing with

something electronic, or playing along with the

recordings. Learn the tunes the way they were

played. Don’t go to the books. The books have a lot

of mistakes in them. They’re just one version.

There are so many versions. That’s another level of

the interactivity in this music. It evolves because

tunes evolve from recording to recording.

JI: Louis Armstrong said that when he would trav-

el, he would sometimes have to endure playing

with players that were not very good

IJ: He said he turned down the band on stage and

turned up the one in his head. That is killer, man,

and Louis was the king of imagination. From what

I understand, Louis loved everybody and he didn’t

have any kind of prejudice about anything. He just

loved life. That’s again what I got from music at a

young age was that spirit of life and fun and joy

and being silly and just going for it.

JI: I agree. His lack of prejudice and fairness are

behaviors we can all learn to model after. We all

experience criticism.

IJ: Young upcoming musicians have a lot of issues

to deal with. When I was playing in my early teens

and early twenties, I was so insecure and so freaked

out about what I was doing. First of all, it’s not

exactly a normal career for a young girl from Cana-

da or anywhere in the world to take off and play

jazz trumpet. That’s a little odd. Because I was one

of the first female jazz trumpet players that I saw

working, kind of made me nervous. It gave me an

insecurity and fear that would manifest itself.

When I would think other people were saying

something … or maybe they did say something …

or maybe they did let me play, or they didn’t let me

play. But all those things ... when I look back on

them now... That was my problem. That was my

way of either dealing or not dealing with the situa-

tion. Now I’m just so glad to be free of those times

in my life, and have the artistic control, and person-

al power to actually create an environment that is

stimulating and supportive. I don’t have to prove

myself. That’s in line with the whole women thing.

That’s one of the problems when a band is all

women. There’s a feeling that they are suppose to

be proving themselves—that they can play as good

as men. Again, that really doesn’t have a lot to do

with music.

JI: The whole aspect about proving oneself is det-

rimental to the creative process. When we are con-

cerned with what the people that are observing us

are thinking, then it removes us from devoting our

full capital of conscious energy to actually creating.

IJ: Absolutely. There are two things that people

say that I know that they believe are compliments

when they are saying them. But, these two state-

ments are my pet peeves. One is “I heard another

girl trumpet player. You sound better then her.”

Well, that’s not really a compliment. Another is

“You women play as good as the guys.” Again,

those aren’t compliments. Unfortunately, those

come from ignorance, and from people not being

exposed to the kind of culture that Europeans are

exposed to. I don’t hear those comments in Eu-

rope—not the way I hear them in the states.

JI: I like getting compliments but I realize that

compliments, and criticism, like perfume need to

be inhaled not swallowed.

IJ: That’s a good one. Did you put that in the

book? You got to put that in there. That’s awe-

some!

JI: But when you think about it, when somebody

comes up to you and says you sound great, and you

might not have thought this that was a great perfor-

mance, you might think, well it’s nice of them to

say that. Then somebody else might say you sound-

ed terrible. Either of those extremes can be detri-

mental—one giving us a big head, and the other

providing a sign suggesting you to quickly enroll in

therapy for six months.

IJ: Well, I think we’re in a new age. There’s a new

flow of healthy attitude going on among musicians

these days. I see a lot of musicians who are reading

similar books, who are digging deeper into spiritu-

ality. Because of that, it is helping us be set free

from the competition that is naturally inherent in

the business. For example, when the internet came

along, everyone freaked out about it in the begin-

ning. People would say “this is going to kill jazz.

No one going to get any gigs anymore. It’s all go-

ing to be free and no one’s going to make any mon-

ey.” The internet is giving me the freedom now to

have even more contact with my fans—people that

really are my fans. These are not people who to

whom I have to prove myself or sell myself. It’s

the opposite. These are people that are really look-

ing for me and are really interested in the projects

I’m doing—and I’m interested in sharing it with

them. So I’m busier then ever as a result of my web

site: IngridJensen.com. People who might ask

“where can I find her?” Click! “There she is. Wow.

There’s her phone number. Let’s hire her. Let’s e-

mail her about something.” The new website with

ArtistShare is even more exciting to me. It’s giving

me the freedom to have all this information just

streaming on different levels of participation. There

are all these live gigs I’ve done—where we’re al-

ways recording on live gigs. There are tons of boot-

legs on there. There are pictures from the road.

There are stories. There is this great window of

information that’s going to let me be more in touch



Ingrid Jensen

“what you put out is what you are going to get back. If you’re putting out beautiful

honest thoughts into the universe you may not get ... a million dollar recording contract. But you will have music with integrity, that will last. That process will keep you in an

evolving state as an artist …”


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with people, and let them know me even more. It’s

exciting. It’s really exciting. Not to take away from

the magazine format, I think it even helps to sepa-

rate the men from the boys as far as press goes.

There’s just so much control within the press be-

cause of the labels. It gives more independent art-

ists, like myself, more freedom—to just be who

they are, without having to be beefed up by some

other producer.

JI: In jazz there doesn’t seem to be proper atten-

tion provided in the mainstream media. What are

your views?

IJ: I don’t really think about the idea of having to

save the music. I think jazz doesn’t need to be

saved, or advertised. It would be like advertising a

tree that was going to change it’s colors. It’s like

this tree will always look this way. Oh, wait. Fall

came. Shoot. It’s not the same tree. It’s more like

the audience has to come to the music with an un-

derstanding that it’s about adventure. In many ways

people “dis” Diana Krall because she sings jazz,

and gets such exposure from it. People put down

that idea of what she is doing. If you look at the

grand spectrum of advertising the music and adver-

tising jazz … It is such an empowering thing to the

music to have something swinging, melodic and

beautiful being played—rather than Kenny G, and

rather than the schmaltzy, poppy, crappy stuff.

And, that’s the kind of music that goes on in all

these high exposure environments—like in air-

planes, malls, whatever. I just think it’s a very

broad spectrum as far as advertising in music goes.

I’ve never thought of myself as having to sell it, or

advertise it. I’m so caught up in playing, writing

and listening—playing off of what’s going on

around me. On the other hand, I think the internet

is going to allow other people who are not in such

locations to get the exposure to the music. I think it

is going to allow an insight into the music and into

the musicians lives. It’s going to help increase the

audience. Again, the internet is a very exciting

adventure. If I were a major record label trying to

promote a jazz artist right now, I’d be concerned

about that. In my eyes, that market that musicians

were vying to get into, for so long, is kind of crum-

bling, in a way. It’s not longer about taking care of

the musicians, like it used to be. There’s a select

handful of select jazz artists that seem to get the

right treatment. But now, it seems that we can take

that treatment into our own hands, and have a very

high quality of life. We can feel good about our-

selves, and reap the actual benefits of contact with

our audience—through photos, letters, e-mails,

journals and honest and open personal insights, into

the music and ourselves and our personal lives.

JI: I interviewed Rob Levitt, a guitar player who

used to live in New York City. He is based around

the Baltimore-Washington area now. He said that

he used to play for tips in small clubs. He said that

he regrets that—and you don’t have to give it

away. He advised people not to do it and regretted

having done it because it lowered the value of his

music. He astutely pointed out that the value you

place on your art, on your music, and on yourself is

what other people are going to perceive, the value

they will ascribe to it.

IJ: Some people have better business skills than

others. Some people really want more out of their

career than others, and they will work for that.

Certain friends of mine get right into the industry.

I’m not so concerned about that high level of suc-

cess, or that level of schmoozing, and what comes

with that. For me, it is a bit of a sacrifice of my

own personal space, my own musical space and

social space.

JI: If you’re committed to the music, that would

naturally come first—rather than forfeiting that to

compromise what you believe and what you are

really about.

IJ: I live with the theory that what you put out is

what you are going to get back. If you’re putting

out beautiful honest thoughts into the universe you

may not get a $25,000 recording contract, or a

million dollar recording contract. But you will have

music with integrity, that will last. That process

will keep you in an evolving state as an artist, ra-

ther than a packaging state. It’s easy to package

things. There have been many times that I’ve had

people say “hey, why don’t we do this with you?”

When I played in the Diva Big Band, I remember

being told that I should play like Clark Terry or

Sweets Edison on a piece. That kind of pissed me

off. I said, “No. I’ll play like Ingrid.” I know Clark,

and I know Sweets. They like it when I play like

me. Those are my idols. Those are the guys I look

to as sources of integrity. They never sat down and

thought about what they were going to play like.

They were just living and being who they were. As

a result, out of their trumpets, and out of their voic-

es, out of their mouths, came them.

JI: Kenny Werner told me that he went to this

session and they said, “Can you play like Herbie

Hancock on this?” He said, “Why don’t you just

get Herbie?”

IJ: Right, exactly! Why don’t you get Clark Terry?

JI: Before you were mentioning some nights you

might have a good night or have a bad night but

when you think about it that’s all part of your

sound and who you are—your fingerprint. All of

our heroes were human. They made mistakes. But

we simply wanted to hear them play—to experi-

ence their unique sound—mistakes or not. Their

persona, their fingerprint is still there. That’s who

we each are.

IJ: Absolutely, that’s what drew me to music in the

first place and will keep me playing it until the end.

I’m not going to quit. I’m not going to stop playing

for any reason aside from death or loss of limbs.

It’s the joy I get from the experience of evolving

with the process of playing, improvising and writ-

ing. When I work on a tune and I get on the gig, it

gives me the freedom to play more freely through

something. Or, I’ve been listening to a certain rec-

ord and I’ve been obsessing over somebody’s play-

ing — how that sneaks into my playing, rather than

it becomes the direct result of a thought. It’s just

the stewing pot of ideas that are constantly fer-

menting and creating other aromas and other

scents.

JI: I think the music is about experiencing and

enjoying the moment. If we are preoccupied with

becoming experts, we face the pitfall of stopping or

impeding our growth and artistic possibility.

IJ: I don’t know what an expert is. I don’t think I’ll

ever understand that feeling myself. The music is

so humbling. Everyday, the instrument I’ve chosen

to play feels different on my face. So, I don’t know

if I’ll ever feel like an expert, or be playing from

that place. A friend of mine was able to get her

chops together on trombone instantly. She started

playing and in two years. She had the most incredi-

ble technique. She could play anything, and she

excelled through every level of improvising from

the time she was in high school. She said, “Well

that’s it. I think I’ve got it together and I don’t see

any reason to go on.” Wow! That’s the opposite of

how I feel. I feel like I’m just beginning every time

I pick up the horn. At the end of every gig I feel

like I’ve come to a new place, and I can’t wait to

see where it’s going to go next.

JI: I agree.

IJ: There is no knowing it all in jazz.

JI: It seems like the more I learn, the bigger the

Universe looks, and the further away I get from

wherever we’re going on this path, and from any

possible assimilation or mastery of the hypothetical

whole, or thorough knowledge, or completion. The

more I get into exploring some song—the keys, the

tempos, the grooves, the dynamics—the more I see

there is to explore and create.

IJ: Sure. Then you play that same tune with a

whole other group of musicians, and you realize

“oh my god you can go here too.” Exploring in

different meters, in different styles of music…

Again, composing and arranging is a very exciting

arena—because now I can create different moods

and different modes and different feelings over

which to play, that constantly challenge me. A lot

of the music that I’m playing in different bands is

not in four. It’s in thirteen, and nine-eight …. and

crazy stuff. It makes a lot of sense musically, but

takes a constantly evolving approach to get through

it.

JI: One of the things that I observed in Thad Jones’

music was that his playing was a direct correlation,

or reflection of his arranging. His improvised or

written lines had the same kind of energy about

them. Could you talk about the correlation between

your playing and your writing?

IJ: It’s a growing process for me—the correlation

between the two. I think I have more technique on

the trumpet than I have technique with which to

compose. I spent time transcribing trumpet solos,

sax solos, piano solos. That information is assimi-

lated into my playing now in a very free flowing

way. With writing, I want to get inside the scores

of all these great composers and arrangers—and

analyze things more. I want to get that connection

with the harmonies as much as I feel I have with

the melodies. As I said earlier, I won’t write a line

that doesn’t lay on the trumpet properly. I’m not

going to just write something on the computer and

then see if it works. I’ll sit and play it through. I


Ingrid Jensen


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want to make sure that it lays right on the instru-

ment and hopefully sounds like music.

JI: One of the ways I worked to develop technical-

ly was to transcribe solos that weren’t played on

my instrument. The idea was to provide myself

with a challenge. They might lay right on trumpet,

but they might not lay right on vibes.

IJ: Sure. I learned a lot of Coltrane solos. I had to

translate to another octave. I was still playing saxo-

phone solos on trumpet. It really kicked my butt

getting all that technique together.

JI: Could you discuss some of the artists who have

made a significant impact on you?

IJ: There is such a stream of trumpet players and

non-trumpet players that have influenced me

throughout my development. I grew up listening to

Dizzy, Clark, Sweets and the early swingers. Then

I went through the whole Miles phase. People that I

know and people that I’ve met that have had a big

impact on me. Laurie Frank taught me the Caruso

method, which was really a big transition in my

life. Playing with Liesl in the Diva Big Band was a

very important part of my learning. I learned how

to really blow through the trumpet and get my

sound, and not question that so much. Those expe-

riences of working and playing with both of them,

combined with all the sounds in my head—Chet

Baker, Thad, Woody Shaw, Lee Morgan … It has

helped me to have their sounds in my head, to be

able to put my sound in perspective. Being an in-

spired improviser is what I respect among these

players—especially Clark Terry. It is the joy that I

heard in his playing in the very beginning—when I

heard him live and when I heard the first record-

ings of him. I’ll tell you a story. There was a time

when it didn’t seem like anybody had any problem

with me sitting in on their gigs—like Clark, Al

Grey. I was living in Austria. I had already met

Clark here in New York. Whenever he was in Eu-

rope, I would call him up and he’d say “Come on

over. You’re going to sit in on the gig.” He had me

sitting in on all these gigs. One time I took a train

from Vienna to Munich to go hang out with him.

He had me sit in on this concert that was televised

live. It was Lionel Hampton and the Golden Men

of Jazz. It was broadcast around the world. I’ve had

people ask “was that you on that show...it didn’t

say who it was. But we saw you on TV with Lionel

Hampton and Clark Terry.” At first they had to

twist Gates’ (Lionel Hampton’s) arm. He said, “I

don’t know. Can she play? Who is she? I don’t

know.” Al Gray, Clark, and Sweets said “it’s In-

grid, just let her play.” Lionel gave in and let me sit

in on the end of the gigs. A tour manager that

worked with those guys really fell for my playing.

He took a live tape of me and sent it out to ten

record companies. One of them responded—Enja.

That was the one I wanted to work with. As a result

of that whole supportive relationship, and no ques-

tioning of anything, I ended up making those three

records. That gave me the opportunity to move

back to New York, and to be able to afford to live

in New York. As they say the rest is history.

JI: What did you learn about the music business as

a result of your record deal?

IJ: As I said, it was the one label I wanted to be on.

The reason I wanted to be on it was because of

their catalog. There were so many people in my

own circle that respected that label as much as I

respected it. It was a smaller label as well. Once I

met Mathias, there was no question he wasn’t go-

ing to pressure me into putting on a fancy dress,

and having my face airbrushed on a CD cover. He

wanted all these pictures of me playing. He loved

the way I played. He encouraged me to hire differ-

ent musicians so I would kind of get kicked in the

butt while playing with them. I hired three different

bands for the three records. I learned more from

those three recording experiences than I could have

learned if I had been at Berklee for twenty years.

Each experience in the studio was really an hon-

or—as far as hiring a band, writing music, playing

other peoples music. The label was very support-

ive. They continued to support me through all three

of those records. It was a very positive experience.

I can’t say anything negative about it. The reason I

am where I am now, without a label, is by choice.

It really is because I just feel like we’re in this time

now where we need to take care of our art like a

baby. I want to own my tunes. I want to pay for the

record and I want to see the benefits.

JI: I know that there are a couple labels from over-

seas that come here and record ten albums in a

week, twice a year. The musicians get paid $300

and $500 apiece. They don’t own the tunes and

don’t own the recordings.

IJ: That’s what the guitar player from Baltimore

was talking about. Don’t do it, don’t sell out. $300

or $600 or even $1,200 is nothing. You’re never

going to see anything else besides that.

JI: Could you talk about happiness and success?

IJ: Your mind is your only limitation. The confi-

dence with which you approach this is going to

effect everything. I think back to the times when I

struggled when I first came to New York. I did

subway gigs. I did street gigs. Those were the best

times of my life when I look back on it now. It

gives me such a great healthy perspective on what

success is. I’m nowhere near being loaded with

money. But I now understand the difference be-

tween saying you have to sacrifice everything just

to play, to the point where you can actually find

peace in your life. You can have a healthy life, and

go on a vacation once in a while, and read a book.

You can do things that play a really healthy and

important part in contributing to the creative pro-

cess in being a great musician, and being a person

who has something positive to offer back to the

universe.

JI: What pitfalls must we be vigilant about encoun-

tering in our lives as we pursue this path of creativ-

ity?

IJ: One thing that can get in the way among

younger people, as they’re developing their craft, is

the idea of success. This bloated, out of proportion

kind of image that you can mistakenly get from the

media—of how people are stars, and other people

aren’t stars. In jazz I don’t think there is a real star

thing. There are just a bunch of really great person-

alities floating around doing different things with

different people. There is also the danger of believ-

ing what people say too much. Think of everything

with respect to what is going on in your life. Is it as

important as you’re making it out to be. There were

times when I was too hard on myself. I was too self

critical. Those were pitfalls that got in the way of

my having the experience of joy while playing. But

then again, I had to go through that in order to see

the struggling side versus the living side. Living in

the moment without so much pressure.

JI: Society serves up a prodigious conspiracy

against mastery. We’re bombarded with promises

of fast temporary relief, immediate gratification

and instant success all of which lead in exactly the

wrong direction for what we’re pursuing as artists.

Do you want to comment?

IJ: Absolutely. This makes me think of one of my

favorite Freddie Hubbard stories. I’d like to men-

tion that Freddie was so cool to me when I met him

the first time. We spent an entire day together. I

was seventeen or eighteen years old. He said “you

want to play the trumpet, let me hear you play.” I

played for him and he came down on me as he

would on anyone else about playing properly. He

just gave me a bunch of exercises to go practice.

But he was so respectful and supportive of the fact

that I wanted to play at such a young age. I’m en-

amored by his playing. His early records are in-

credible—and his spirit in the music, and some of

the live stuff out there is just freaky. At the Jazz

Educator’s Convention in California, he was doing

one of those live blindfold tests. It was incredible.

He played some Booker Little. He almost had all of

us crying. He told some stories about Booker Little,

and spoke of the respect he had for him. It was so

beautiful. The guys interviewing Freddie put on

some kind of hip-hop version of a Monk tune.

Freddie got so angry. He stood up and grabbed the

microphone. He said “turn it off, turn it off...turn

that crap off.” His point was that you don’t need a

funk group to make a Monk tune sound cool, when

it already sounds cool. Monk doesn’t need any

help. He’ll be all right. But the most important

point for me was when he said, “This music takes a

long time to learn. You don’t just learn it. It just

doesn’t just happen.” I breathed a sigh of relief

when I heard him say that. I’m in my late 30’s. I

think I’m just now figuring out how to be me

through the trumpet, in relation to this music, and

music and life in general. Just to live a healthy

existence is something important to do. Whether or

not I’m going to make it to the Starbucks Top Five

CD list doesn’t really matter.

JI: It doesn’t matter. You’re inspiring people you

don’t even know.

IJ: Exactly. Hopefully I’m inspiring myself and

everyone around me, on a daily basis—so that we

are constantly growing together and sharing new

things. Like the community I’m in—we’re laugh-

ing we’re crying we’re talking we’re digging we’re

reading we’re sharing we’re doing things…To me,

that kind of emulates a healthy society. It’s very

exciting.


Ingrid Jensen


Hear Nicole Henry at Dizzy’s Club, May 29-30

Interview by Gary Heimbauer

JI: Can you talk about some of the things that

are currently happening in your career that

you are excited about?

NH: Thankfully, everything is very exciting

right now. Firstly, having my last CD “The

Very Thought of You” go to #7 on the Bill-

board Jazz Chart was awesome. That success

opened more eyes and ears to my music and

career, as well as opened doors of opportuni-

ties. Secondly, I am producing my first ever

inspirational and gospel concert. I’ve been

singing at church since I was in middle school

and will use songs from my past, as well as

contemporary inspirational and secular songs.

Singing in churches over the last eight years

has enabled me to keep spirituality in my life,

when I so often don’t make the time to do so

otherwise. Planning and practicing for the

concert has been inspirational, and that was

my personal intention, aside from being able

to welcome others to do it with me. Thirdly,

I’ve been traveling more internationally. I just

recently returned from my first tour in Russia

and had a great time there. I had no particular

expectations, but the warm welcome I re-

ceived makes me even more enthusiastic for

my return in early April and beyond. And

finally, and I mean finally—I’ve been able to

find satisfaction in the achievements of my

career. I always felt like I was catching up and

not in the places that I wanted to be, etc. etc.

But lately I’ve been able to stop beating my-

self up so badly. When a consultant of mine

brought to my attention that now I have three

international Top 10 CDs in the last five

years, it made me put my career into perspec-

tive. So I value each event and each moment

much more. Of course, now, I have to work

harder so that the next five years top the last

five!

JI: In addition to your involvement in music,

what other activities help provide balance and

fulfillment in your life?

NH: Jogging helps me straighten out my

thoughts. And I managed to watch about six

movies last year, which is a record high since

2000. Otherwise, giving time to work with

youth makes me very happy and fulfilled. It’s

hard to really grasp how less fortunate some

children are in regards to being exposed to

opportunities and being inspired. Childhood

should be the time when you freely dream the

most, but many children can’t come close to

doing that. So I’ve been fortunate to work


Nicole Henry

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

“finally—I’ve been able to find satisfaction in the achievements of my career. I always felt like

I was catching up and not in the places that I wanted to be, etc. etc. But lately I’ve been able

to stop beating myself up so badly.”


with these young spirits in Miami. I also raise

money and awareness for Arts Education in

our public school systems, reminding people

the importance of an arts education to teach

young people about ‘feeling’ and ‘expression’

through the arts. But, I also find performing

therapeutic – I don’t think about emails, or

projects, or anything - just singing. It’s the

stress and work that’s behind getting on stage

that’s throws me out of balance.

JI: Self consciousness can be the enemy of

creativity, and it takes the most strength for a

singer to diffuse it. If you’ve experienced that

kind of performance anxiety or nervousness in

your career, what helped you and how did/do

you overcome it?

NH: I’ve never really been self-conscious

about performing. Maybe writing … When I

used to get nervous or anxious when just

about to go on stage, I’d tell myself I needed

to sing for me or someone out there listening.

That way it became more about a “service”

then about “Nicole.” I’d just focus on the lyr-

ics, and close my eyes if I needed. Another

tried and true trick is to hold my breath for as

long as I can, and then, breathe deeply

through my nose and stretch my body. Then,

sip a martini!

JI: What were some of your early influences

and turning points that solidified your desire

to follow this life path as an artist?

NH: Actually, I thought I would go into act-

ing… but singing opportunities kept popping

up. I always sang in school and in church be-

cause I could, but I never considered a career

in music. I wasn’t aware of my purpose in

singing then. But in 1997, after college, I

started singing with a dance music DJ and

touring the U.S. at raves and night clubs. This

was the first time I realized that singing was

the way that I could make a difference in the

world by emotionally moving people. And

while I knew I didn’t want to only sing house

music, I knew I wanted to sing forever.

That’s when the journey and passion to move

people through music started.

JI: Could you talk about your musical back-

ground? What steps did you take to get where

you are now? What were your studies like?

How did you develop your skills?

NH: My background is I played cello, sung in

choirs and was often a soloist. I started sing-

ing professionally in my mid-twenties, per-

haps later than most, so I jumped in and tried

to make up for lost time. I just kept singing

and listening and singing and singing. On the

job training as they say. Along the way I took

some vocal courses, two piano classes, I

learned to play and write to guitar, but I never

really studied music theory. And at first, I felt

a tiny bit self-conscious about not having

done so, but I would remind myself that so

many of the jazz greats didn’t study either. I

recently heard Patti Austin say, “You mari-

nate in jazz.” I respectfully fell in love with

jazz seven years ago and wouldn’t let anyone

keep me away from singing it – especially in

today’s world where the jazz critics seem to

want you to have your music school degree in

your front pocket. As far as developing my

skills, I continue to watch and listen and learn.

Then I learn the most from recording myself

in rehearsals and live. Admittedly, my practic-

ing and rehearsing goes in phases, but I try to

challenge myself by creating shows and add-

ing new songs to the repertoire.

JI: What advice do you have for young sing-

ers who are looking to develop their own

voice and the ability to do this professionally?

NH: Be patient, it takes years. Learn how to

breathe correctly. Find some great warm up

exercises. Take some acting classes. And

when singing—the minute you hear yourself

sounding like someone else, find your own

speaking voice inside your head, and become

you again. And I can’t say enough about audio

and video recording yourself. One day you’ll

listen back you won’t wince… well, not as

often!

JI: What is it about jazz that draws you to it?

There are so many styles of singing—why

jazz?

NH: I love the lyrics, the melodies, the classic

-ness of the music and the freedom of the

form. There’s a wealth of music to be sung in

the genre. The challenge, of course, is making

a distinct statement, worthy to be heard again.

Mostly, I love re-presenting the lyrics. I con-

tinue to have other styles of music in my rep-

ertoire, including inspirational and adult con-

temporary, but jazz is also a sacred element to

it.

JI: What is the most rewarding facet of your

life as an artist?

NH: That I can make people feel emotion and

relate to their emotions.

JI: What is the greatest compliment that a

listener can give you?

NH: I’m touched when someone shares with

me a specific memory from one of my record-

ings, or one of my shows. That’s special when

a performance stays with someone and they

can recall it over time.


Nicole Henry

“Ultimate success is not directly related to early success,

if you consider that many successful people did not give clear evidence

of such promise in youth.”

- Robert Fritz, The Path Of Least Resistance

“...giving time to work with youth makes me very happy and fulfilled. It’s hard to really grasp how less

fortunate some children are in regards to being exposed to opportunities and being inspired. Childhood should be the time when you freely dream the

most, but many children can’t come close to doing that.”

13 To Advertise CALL: 215-887-8880 May-June 2019 Jazz Inside Magazine www.JazzInsideMagazine.com

Wednesday, May 1 Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick

Rosato, bass; Obed Calvaire, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Willerm Delisfort; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Fleurine & Boys from Brazil New Album Celebration: Brazilian Dream With Special Guest Brad Mehldau; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Karriem Riggins Live; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, May 2

Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Mark Turner, tenor sax; Rick Rosato, bass; Obed Calvaire, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Bruce Forman Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Chris Potter Circuits Trio featuring James Francies and Eric Harland; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Emmet Cohen Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Bill Frisell Trio ft Tony Scherr & Kenny Wollesen; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 3


Houston Person Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen-ter, 60th & Bdwy




Saturday, May 4





Sunday, May 5


Akiko/Hamilton/Dechter; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Cen-ter, 60th & Bdwy


Simas & Amorim Duo CD release concert; Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, May 6

Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Mingus Orchestra: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Milos; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, May 7

Antonio Sanchez with Chris Potter, saxophone; Donny McCaslin, saxophone; Scott Colley, bass; Antonio Sanchez, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Sax & Taps With Dewitt Fleming, Jr. & Erica Von Kleist; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Duchess; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

David Murray with Saul Williams; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Maceo Parker; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 8


Essentially Ellington Alumni Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Duchess; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Thursday, May 9


Juilliard Jazz Orchestra: Music Of Duke Ellington; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Jeremy Pelt: Jeremy Pelt; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Friday, May 10


Jeremy Pelt: Jeremy Pelt; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Saturday, May 11


Jeremy Pelt: Jeremy Pelt; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St. (Continued on page 14)

CALENDAR OF EVENTSCALENDAR OF EVENTS

How to Get Your Gigs and Events Listed in Jazz Inside Magazine Submit your listings via e-mail to [email protected]. Include date, times, location, phone,

tickets/reservations. Deadline: 15th of the month preceding publication (February 15 for March) (We cannot guarantee the publication of all calendar submissions.)

ADVERTISING: Reserve your ads to promote your events and get the marketing advantage of con-trolling your own message — size, content, image, identity, photos and more. Contact the advertising department:

215-887-8880 | [email protected]

http://www.jazz.org




Sunday, May 12


Jazz For Kids; Jeremy Pelt: Jeremy Pelt; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Ken Peplowski Quartet: Featuring Special Guest Vocalist Nicole Zuraitis; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, May 13 Vanguard Jazz Orchestra; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Monday Nights With WBGO: Terraza Big Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Amanda Brecker; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Tuesday, May 14

Seasons Band - Ben Wendel, saxophone; Gilad Hekselman, guitar; Aaron Parks, piano; Matthew Brewer, bass; Eric Har-land, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Bill Charlap Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy

Michael Leonhart Orchestra with Special Guest Nels Cline; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Curtis Stigers with The Birdland Big Band Directed by David Dejesus; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Dizzy Gillespie Afro Cuban All-Stars; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 15


Smithsonian Jazz Masterworks Orchestra with Special Guest Kurt Elling; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.



Thursday, May 16


Gil Evans Project directed by Ryan Truesdell; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Eric Krasno & Friends w/ special guest Lisa Fischer; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 17





Saturday, May 18





Sunday, May 19


Jazz For Kids; Gil Evans Project directed by Ryan Truesdell; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Pete McGuinness Jazz Orchestra "Along For The Ride" CD Release; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, May 20


Berklee Masters On The Road With Special Guest Melissa Aldana; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Mingus Big Band: Celebrating 10 Years at Jazz Standard; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


http://www.jazz.org/dizzys

Hello, my name is David Haney. I am a pianist and composer. In 2012 I took over as publisher and editor of Cadence Magazine. We have the same mandate to present independent free press. We are dedicated to the promotion of creative music. I encourage you to give us a try. You will love the new Cadence.

http://www.cadencejazzmagazine.com


Andy Farber; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Marcus Machado & Friends; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, May 21

Trio Tapestry - Joe Lovano, saxophone; Marilyn Crispell, piano; Carmen Castaldi, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Gil Gutiérrez; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Dr. Lonnie Smith with The Jazz Orchestra of the Concertge-bouw; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Brandee Younger & Friends with Special Guests TBA; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 22


Gil Gutiérrez; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Brandee Younger & Friends with Special Guests TBA; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, May 23


Melissa Aldana Quartet; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Chris Dave & The Drumhedz with Special Guest; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 24





Saturday, May 25





Sunday, May 26



Greg Ruvolo Big Band Collective; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Monday, May 27


Arianna Neikrug; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Tuesday, May 28

Mark Giuliana Quartet - Jason Rigby, saxophone; Shai Maes-tro, piano; Chris Morrissey, bass; Mark Guiliana, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Kenny Barron; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Alan Broadbent; Jazz Masters Play Ornette Coleman with Tom Harrell, Donny McCaslin, Ben Allison, Steve Smith; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Roberta Gambarini Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, May 29


Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Julian Lage; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Roberta Gambarini Quartet; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Thursday, May 30


Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Kurt Elling; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.


Kenny Garrett; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, May 31


Fred Hersch Duo Invitation Series with Drew Gress & Billy Hart; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Alan Broadbent; Jazz Masters Play Ornette Coleman with Tom Harrell, Donny McCaslin, Ben Allison, Steve Smith; Birdland, 315 W. 44th

Kenny Garrett; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Saturday, June 1 Danny Barker; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th &

Bdwy

Sunday, June 2

Georgia Horns; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Monday, June 3

JALC Youth Orchestra with Ingrid Jensen; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Tuesday, June 4

Kenny Werner Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

James Francies Flight With Special Guests Bilal(4/4) & Kate K-S (4/5); Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Wednesday, June 5

Kenny Werner Trio; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

James Francies Flight With Special Guests Bilal(4/4) & Kate K-S (4/5); Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.


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Thursday, June 6 Hillary Gardner, Ehud Asherie; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Center, 60th & Bdwy

Joey Alexander Trio Featuring Larry Grenadier & Kendrick Scott; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, June 7

Dion Parson & 21st Century Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Saturday, June 8



Sunday, June 9



Monday, June 10

The VI Jazz Collective; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Roy Haynes; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, June 11

Christian McBride Big Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Wednesday, June 12



Thursday, June 13


Martin Family: Terrace Martin & Curly Martin With Larry Goldings; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, June 14



Saturday, June 15 Christian McBride Big Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Center, 60th & Bdwy


Sunday, June 16 Christian McBride Big Band; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln

Center, 60th & Bdwy


Monday, June 17

Chico Pinheiro Quartet; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Tuesday, June 18

Scottish National Jazz Orchestra; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Wednesday, June 19

Scottish National Jazz Orchestra; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Thursday, June 20

Christian McBride's Tip City; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Lisa Fischer & Grand Baton; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, June 21



Saturday, June 22



Sunday, June 23



Monday, June 24

Randy Napoleon's Midwest Guitar Legacy: Grant Green, Wes Montgomery, Kenny Burrell; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Savion Glover; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Tuesday, June 25

Jonathan Michel; Empirical; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy

Bad Plus; Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St.

Spike Wilner Trio; Josh Evans Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Peter Lin TNT Quartet CD Release; Django Reinhardt Festi-val: Samson Schmitt, Pierre Blanchard and more!; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Wednesday, June 26

François Bourassa Quartet; Empirical; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Myron Walden Quintet; Miles Tucker Quartet; Mimi Jones and The Lab Session; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

David Ostwald's Louis Armstrong Eternity Band; Charnett Moffett's Bright New Day: CD Release; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Thursday, June 27

Sean Jones, Dizzy Spellz; Dizzy’s Club, Jazz At Lincoln Center, 60th & Bdwy


Myron Walden Quintet; Simona Premazzi Quintet; Malick Koly "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Pete Malinverni Trio; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.

Kenny G; Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd St.

Friday, June 28



Ethan Iverson Quartet - Tom Harrell, trumpet; Ethan Iverson, piano; Ben Street, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Mike Boone Quartet; Victor Gould Sextet; JD Allen "After-hours"; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Birdland Big Band; Paul McCandless with Charged Particles; Django Reinhardt Festival: Samson Schmitt, Pierre Blanchard and more!; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Saturday, June 29



Ethan Iverson Quartet - Tom Harrell, trumpet; Ethan Iverson, piano; Ben Street, bass; Eric McPherson, drums; Village Vanguard 178 7th Ave S.

Mike Boone Quartet; Victor Gould Sextet; Philip Harper Quintet; Small's, 183 W. 10th St.

Paul McCandless with Charged Particles; Django Reinhardt Festival: Samson Schmitt, Pierre Blanchard and more!; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


Sunday, June 30



Jennifer Wharton's BONEGASM; Afro Latin Jazz Orchestra; Birdland, 315 W. 44th St.


“...among human beings jealousy ranks distinctly as a

weakness; a trademark of small minds; a property of all small minds, yet a property

which even the smallest is ashamed of; and when accused of its possession will

lyingly deny it and resent the accusation as an insult.”

-Mark Twain

“Some people’s idea of free speech is that they are free

to say what they like, but if anyone says anything back that

is an outrage.”

- Winston Churchill


5 C Cultural Center, 68 Avenue C. 212-477-5993. www.5ccc.com

55 Bar, 55 Christopher St. 212-929-9883, 55bar.com

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128,

212.415.5500, 92ndsty.org

Aaron Davis Hall, City College of NY, Convent Ave., 212-650-

6900, aarondavishall.org

Alice Tully Hall, Lincoln Center, Broadway & 65th St., 212-875-

5050, lincolncenter.org/default.asp

Allen Room, Lincoln Center, Time Warner Center, Broadway and

60th, 5th floor, 212-258-9800, lincolncenter.org

American Museum of Natural History, 81st St. & Central Park

W., 212-769-5100, amnh.org

Antibes Bistro, 112 Suffolk Street. 212-533-6088.

www.antibesbistro.com

Arthur’s Tavern, 57 Grove St., 212-675-6879 or 917-301-8759,

arthurstavernnyc.com

Arts Maplewood, P.O. Box 383, Maplewood, NJ 07040; 973-378-

2133, artsmaplewood.org

Avery Fischer Hall, Lincoln Center, Columbus Ave. & 65th St.,

212-875-5030, lincolncenter.org

BAM Café, 30 Lafayette Av, Brooklyn, 718-636-4100, bam.org

Bar Chord, 1008 Cortelyou Rd., Brooklyn, barchordnyc.com

Bar Lunatico, 486 Halsey St., Brooklyn. 718-513-0339.

222.barlunatico.com

Barbes, 376 9th St. (corner of 6th Ave.), Park Slope, Brooklyn,

718-965-9177, barbesbrooklyn.com

Barge Music, Fulton Ferry Landing, Brooklyn, 718-624-2083,

bargemusic.org

B.B. King’s Blues Bar, 237 W. 42nd St., 212-997-4144,

bbkingblues.com

Beacon Theatre, 74th St. & Broadway, 212-496-7070

Beco Bar, 45 Richardson, Brooklyn. 718-599-1645.

www.becobar.com

Bickford Theatre, on Columbia Turnpike @ Normandy Heights

Road, east of downtown Morristown. 973-744-2600

Birdland, 315 W. 44th, 212-581-3080

Blue Note, 131 W. 3rd, 212-475-8592, bluenotejazz.com

Bourbon St Bar and Grille, 346 W. 46th St, NY, 10036,

212-245-2030, [email protected]

Bowery Poetry Club, 308 Bowery (at Bleecker), 212-614-0505,

bowerypoetry.com

BRIC House, 647 Fulton St. Brooklyn, NY 11217, 718-683-5600,

http://bricartsmedia.org

Brooklyn Public Library, Grand Army Plaza, 2nd Fl, Brooklyn,

NY, 718-230-2100, brooklynpubliclibrary.org

Café Carlyle, 35 E. 76th St., 212-570-7189, thecarlyle.com

Café Loup, 105 W. 13th St. (West Village) , between Sixth and

Seventh Aves., 212-255-4746

Café St. Bart’s, 109 E. 50th St, 212-888-2664, cafestbarts.com

Cafe Noctambulo, 178 2nd Ave. 212-995-0900. cafenoctam-

bulo.com

Caffe Vivaldi, 32 Jones St, NYC; caffevivaldi.com

Candlelight Lounge, 24 Passaic St, Trenton. 609-695-9612.

Carnegie Hall, 7th Av & 57th, 212-247-7800, carnegiehall.org

Cassandra’s Jazz, 2256 7th Avenue. 917-435-2250. cassan-

drasjazz.com

Chico’s House Of Jazz, In Shoppes at the Arcade, 631 Lake Ave.,

Asbury Park, 732-774-5299

City Winery, 155 Varick St. Bet. Vandam & Spring St., 212-608-

0555. citywinery.com

Cleopatra’s Needle, 2485 Broadway (betw 92nd & 93rd), 212-769-

6969, cleopatrasneedleny.com

Club Bonafide, 212 W. 52nd, 646-918-6189. clubbonafide.com

C’mon Everybody, 325 Franklin Avenue, Brooklyn.

www.cmoneverybody.com

Copeland’s, 547 W. 145th St. (at Bdwy), 212-234-2356

Cornelia St Café, 29 Cornelia, 212-989-9319

Count Basie Theatre, 99 Monmouth St., Red Bank, New Jersey

07701, 732-842-9000, countbasietheatre.org

Crossroads at Garwood, 78 North Ave., Garwood, NJ 07027,

908-232-5666

Cutting Room, 19 W. 24th St, 212-691-1900

Dizzy’s Club, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor, 212-258-9595,

jalc.com

DROM, 85 Avenue A, New York, 212-777-1157, dromnyc.com

The Ear Inn, 326 Spring St., NY, 212-226-9060, earinn.com

East Village Social, 126 St. Marks Place. 646-755-8662.

www.evsnyc.com

Edward Hopper House, 82 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 854-358-

0774.

El Museo Del Barrio, 1230 Fifth Ave (at 104th St.), Tel: 212-831-

7272, Fax: 212-831-7927, elmuseo.org

Esperanto, 145 Avenue C. 212-505-6559. www.esperantony.com

The Falcon, 1348 Rt. 9W, Marlboro, NY., 845) 236-7970,

Fat Cat, 75 Christopher St., 212-675-7369, fatcatjazz.com

Fine and Rare, 9 East 37th Street. www.fineandrare.nyc

Five Spot, 459 Myrtle Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 718-852-0202, fivespot-

soulfood.com

Flushing Town Hall, 137-35 Northern Blvd., Flushing, NY, 718-

463-7700 x222, flushingtownhall.org

For My Sweet, 1103 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY 718-857-1427

Galapagos, 70 N. 6th St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-782-5188, galapago-

sartspace.com

Garage Restaurant and Café, 99 Seventh Ave. (betw 4th and

Bleecker), 212-645-0600, garagerest.com

Garden Café, 4961 Broadway, by 207th St., New York, 10034,

212-544-9480

Gin Fizz, 308 Lenox Ave, 2nd floor. (212) 289-2220.

www.ginfizzharlem.com

Ginny’s Supper Club, 310 Malcolm X Boulevard Manhattan, NY

10027, 212-792-9001, http://redroosterharlem.com/ginnys/

Glen Rock Inn, 222 Rock Road, Glen Rock, NJ, (201) 445-2362,

glenrockinn.com

GoodRoom, 98 Meserole, Bklyn, 718-349-2373, goodroombk.com.

Green Growler, 368 S, Riverside Ave., Croton-on-Hudson NY.

914-862-0961. www.thegreengrowler.com

Greenwich Village Bistro, 13 Carmine St., 212-206-9777, green-

wichvillagebistro.com

Harlem on 5th, 2150 5th Avenue. 212-234-5600.

www.harlemonfifth.com

Harlem Tea Room, 1793A Madison Ave., 212-348-3471, har-

lemtearoom.com

Hat City Kitchen, 459 Valley St, Orange. 862-252-9147.

hatcitykitchen.com

Havana Central West End, 2911 Broadway/114th St), NYC,

212-662-8830, havanacentral.com

Highline Ballroom, 431 West 16th St (between 9th & 10th Ave.

highlineballroom.com, 212-414-4314.

Hopewell Valley Bistro, 15 East Broad St, Hopewell, NJ 08525,

609-466-9889, hopewellvalleybistro.com

Hudson Room, 27 S. Division St., Peekskill NY. 914-788-FOOD.

hudsonroom.com

Hyatt New Brunswick, 2 Albany St., New Brunswick, NJ

IBeam Music Studio, 168 7th St., Brooklyn, ibeambrooklyn.com

INC American Bar & Kitchen, 302 George St., New Brunswick

NJ. (732) 640-0553. www.increstaurant.com

Iridium, 1650 Broadway, 212-582-2121, iridiumjazzclub.com

Jazz 966, 966 Fulton St., Brooklyn, NY, 718-638-6910

Jazz at Lincoln Center, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Frederick P. Rose Hall, Broadway at 60th St., 5th Floor

Dizzy’s Club Coca-Cola, Reservations: 212-258-9595

Rose Theater, Tickets: 212-721-6500, The Allen Room, Tickets:

212-721-6500

Jazz Gallery, 1160 Bdwy, (212) 242-1063, jazzgallery.org

The Jazz Spot, 375 Kosciuszko St. (enter at 179 Marcus Garvey

Blvd.), Brooklyn, NY, 718-453-7825, thejazz.8m.com

Jazz Standard, 116 E. 27th St., 212-576-2232, jazzstandard.net

Joe’s Pub at the Public Theater, 425 Lafayette St & Astor Pl.,

212-539-8778, joespub.com

John Birks Gillespie Auditorium (see Baha’i Center)

Jules Bistro, 65 St. Marks Pl, 212-477-5560, julesbistro.com

Kasser Theater, 1 Normal Av, Montclair State College, Montclair,

973-655-4000, montclair.edu

Key Club, 58 Park Pl, Newark, NJ, 973-799-0306, keyclubnj.com

Kitano Hotel, 66 Park Ave., 212-885-7119. kitano.com

Knickerbocker Bar & Grill, 33 University Pl., 212-228-8490,

knickerbockerbarandgrill.com

Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St, 212-219-3132, knittingfacto-

ry.com

Langham Place — Measure, Fifth Avenue, 400 Fifth Avenue

New York, NY 10018, 212-613-8738, langhamplacehotels.com

La Lanterna (Bar Next Door at La Lanterna), 129 MacDougal St,

New York, 212-529-5945, lalanternarcaffe.com

Le Cirque Cafe, 151 E. 58th St., lecirque.com

Le Fanfare, 1103 Manhattan Ave., Brooklyn. 347-987-4244.

www.lefanfare.com

Le Madeleine, 403 W. 43rd St. (betw 9th & 10th Ave.), New York,

New York, 212-246-2993, lemadeleine.com

Les Gallery Clemente Soto Velez, 107 Suffolk St, 212-260-4080

Lexington Hotel, 511 Lexington Ave. (212) 755-4400.

www.lexinghotelnyc.com

Live @ The Falcon, 1348 Route 9W, Marlboro, NY 12542,

Living Room, 154 Ludlow St. 212-533-7235, livingroomny.com

The Local 269, 269 E. Houston St. (corner of Suffolk St.), NYC

Makor, 35 W. 67th St., 212-601-1000, makor.org

Lounge Zen, 254 DeGraw Ave, Teaneck, NJ, (201) 692-8585,

lounge-zen.com

Maureen’s Jazz Cellar, 2 N. Broadway, Nyack NY. 845-535-

3143. maureensjazzcellar.com

Maxwell’s, 1039 Washington St, Hoboken, NJ, 201-653-1703

McCarter Theater, 91 University Pl., Princeton, 609-258-2787,

mccarter.org

Merkin Concert Hall, Kaufman Center, 129 W. 67th St., 212-501

-3330, ekcc.org/merkin.htm

Metropolitan Room, 34 West 22nd St NY, NY 10012, 212-206-

0440

Mezzrow, 163 West 10th Street, Basement, New York, NY

10014. 646-476-4346. www.mezzrow.com

Minton’s, 206 W 118th St., 212-243-2222, mintonsharlem.com

Mirelle’s, 170 Post Ave., Westbury, NY, 516-338-4933

MIST Harlem, 46 W. 116th St., myimagestudios.com

Mixed Notes Café, 333 Elmont Rd., Elmont, NY (Queens area),

516-328-2233, mixednotescafe.com

Montauk Club, 25 8th Ave., Brooklyn, 718-638-0800,

montaukclub.com

Moscow 57, 168½ Delancey. 212-260-5775. moscow57.com

Muchmore’s, 2 Havemeyer St., Brooklyn. 718-576-3222.

www.muchmoresnyc.com

Mundo, 37-06 36th St., Queens. mundony.com

Museum of the City of New York, 1220 Fifth Ave. (between

103rd & 104th St.), 212-534-1672, mcny.org

Musicians’ Local 802, 332 W. 48th, 718-468-7376

National Sawdust, 80 N. 6th St., Brooklyn. 646-779-8455.

www.nationalsawdust.org

Newark Museum, 49 Washington St, Newark, New Jersey 07102-

3176, 973-596-6550, newarkmuseum.org

New Jersey Performing Arts Center, 1 Center St., Newark, NJ,

07102, 973-642-8989, njpac.org

New Leaf Restaurant, 1 Margaret Corbin Dr., Ft. Tryon Park. 212-

568-5323. newleafrestaurant.com

New School Performance Space, 55 W. 13th St., 5th Floor (betw

5th & 6th Ave.), 212-229-5896, newschool.edu.

New School University-Tishman Auditorium, 66 W. 12th St., 1st

Floor, Room 106, 212-229-5488, newschool.edu

New York City Baha’i Center, 53 E. 11th St. (betw Broadway &

University), 212-222-5159, bahainyc.org

North Square Lounge, 103 Waverly Pl. (at MacDougal St.),

212-254-1200, northsquarejazz.com

Oak Room at The Algonquin Hotel, 59 W. 44th St. (betw 5th and

6th Ave.), 212-840-6800, thealgonquin.net

Oceana Restaurant, 120 West 49th St, New York, NY 10020

212-759-5941, oceanarestaurant.com

Orchid, 765 Sixth Ave. (betw 25th & 26th St.), 212-206-9928

The Owl, 497 Rogers Ave, Bklyn. 718-774-0042. www.theowl.nyc

Palazzo Restaurant, 11 South Fullerton Avenue, Montclair. 973-

746-6778. palazzonj.com

Priory Jazz Club: 223 W Market, Newark, 07103, 973-639-7885

Proper Café, 217-01 Linden Blvd., Queens, 718-341-2233

Clubs, Venues & Jazz ResourcesClubs, Venues & Jazz Resources

— Anton Chekhov

“A system of morality

which is based on relative

emotional values is a mere

illusion, a thoroughly vulgar

conception which has nothing

sound in it and nothing true.”

— Socrates


Prospect Park Bandshell, 9th St. & Prospect Park W., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-768-0855

Prospect Wine Bar & Bistro, 16 Prospect St. Westfield, NJ,

908-232-7320, 16prospect.com, cjayrecords.com

Red Eye Grill, 890 7th Av (56th), 212-541-9000, redeyegrill.com

Ridgefield Playhouse, 80 East Ridge, parallel to Main St.,

Ridgefield, CT; ridgefieldplayhouse.org, 203-438-5795

Rockwood Music Hall, 196 Allen St, 212-477-4155

Rose Center (American Museum of Natural History), 81st St.

(Central Park W. & Columbus), 212-769-5100, amnh.org/rose

Rose Hall, 33 W. 60th St., 212-258-9800, jalc.org

Rosendale Café, 434 Main St., PO Box 436, Rosendale, NY 12472,

845-658-9048, rosendalecafe.com

Rubin Museum of Art - “Harlem in the Himalayas”, 150 W. 17th

St. 212-620-5000. rmanyc.org

Rustik, 471 DeKalb Ave, Brooklyn, NY, 347-406-9700,

rustikrestaurant.com

St. Mark’s Church, 131 10th St. (at 2nd Ave.), 212-674-6377

St. Nick’s Pub, 773 St. Nicholas Av (at 149th), 212-283-9728

St. Peter’s Church, 619 Lexington (at 54th), 212-935-2200,

saintpeters.org

Sasa’s Lounge, 924 Columbus Ave, Between 105th & 106th St.

NY, NY 10025, 212-865-5159, sasasloungenyc.yolasite.com

Savoy Grill, 60 Park Place, Newark, NJ 07102, 973-286-1700

Schomburg Center, 515 Malcolm X Blvd., 212-491-2200,

nypl.org/research/sc/sc.html

Shanghai Jazz, 24 Main St., Madison, NJ, 973-822-2899, shang-

haijazz.com

ShapeShifter Lab, 18 Whitwell Pl, Brooklyn, NY 11215

shapeshifterlab.com

Showman’s, 375 W. 125th St., 212-864-8941

Sidewalk Café, 94 Ave. A, 212-473-7373

Sista’s Place, 456 Nostrand, Bklyn, 718-398-1766, sistasplace.org

Skippers Plane St Pub, 304 University Ave. Newark NJ, 973-733-

9300, skippersplaneStpub.com

Smalls Jazz Club, 183 W. 10th St. (at 7th Ave.), 212-929-7565,

SmallsJazzClub.com

Smith’s Bar, 701 8th Ave, New York, 212-246-3268

Sofia’s Restaurant - Club Cache’ [downstairs], Edison Hotel,

221 W. 46th St. (between Broadway & 8th Ave), 212-719-5799

South Gate Restaurant & Bar, 154 Central Park South, 212-484-

5120, 154southgate.com

South Orange Performing Arts Center, One SOPAC

Way, South Orange, NJ 07079, sopacnow.org, 973-313-2787

Spectrum, 2nd floor, 121 Ludlow St.

Spoken Words Café, 266 4th Av, Brooklyn, 718-596-3923

Stanley H. Kaplan Penthouse, 165 W. 65th St., 10th Floor,

212-721-6500, lincolncenter.org

The Stone, Ave. C & 2nd St., thestonenyc.com

Strand Bistro, 33 W. 37th St. 212-584-4000

SubCulture, 45 Bleecker St., subculturenewyork.com

Sugar Bar, 254 W. 72nd St, 212-579-0222, sugarbarnyc.com

Swing 46, 349 W. 46th St.(betw 8th & 9th Ave.),

212-262-9554, swing46.com

Symphony Space, 2537 Broadway, Tel: 212-864-1414, Fax: 212-

932-3228, symphonyspace.org

Tea Lounge, 837 Union St. (betw 6th & 7th Ave), Park Slope,

Broooklyn, 718-789-2762, tealoungeNY.com

Terra Blues, 149 Bleecker St. (betw Thompson & LaGuardia),

212-777-7776, terrablues.com

Threes Brewing, 333 Douglass St., Brooklyn. 718-522-2110.

www.threesbrewing.com

Tito Puente’s Restaurant and Cabaret, 64 City Island Avenue,

City Island, Bronx, 718-885-3200, titopuentesrestaurant.com

Tomi Jazz, 239 E. 53rd St., 646-497-1254, tomijazz.com

Tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (betw Delancey & Rivington), Tel: 212-358-

7501, Fax: 212-358-1237, tonicnyc.com

Town Hall, 123 W. 43rd St., 212-997-1003

Triad Theater, 158 W. 72nd St. (betw Broadway & Columbus

Ave.), 212-362-2590, triadnyc.com

Tribeca Performing Arts Center, 199 Chambers St, 10007,

[email protected], tribecapac.org

Trumpets, 6 Depot Square, Montclair, NJ, 973-744-2600,

trumpetsjazz.com

Turning Point Cafe, 468 Piermont Ave. Piermont, N.Y. 10968

(845) 359-1089, http://turningpointcafe.com

Urbo, 11 Times Square. 212-542-8950. urbonyc.com

Village Vanguard, 178 7th Ave S., 212-255-4037

Vision Festival, 212-696-6681, [email protected],

Watchung Arts Center, 18 Stirling Rd, Watchung, NJ 07069,

908-753-0190, watchungarts.org

Watercolor Café, 2094 Boston Post Road, Larchmont, NY 10538,

914-834-2213, watercolorcafe.net

Weill Recital Hall, Carnegie Hall, 57th & 7th Ave, 212-247-7800

Williamsburg Music Center, 367 Bedford Avenue, Brooklyn, NY

11211, (718) 384-1654 wmcjazz.org

Zankel Hall, 881 7th Ave, New York, 212-247-7800

Zinc Bar, 82 West 3rd St.

RECORD STORES

Academy Records, 12 W. 18th St., New York, NY 10011, 212-242

-3000, http://academy-records.com

Downtown Music Gallery, 13 Monroe St, New York, NY 10002,

(212) 473-0043, downtownmusicgallery.com

Jazz Record Center, 236 W. 26th St., Room 804,

212-675-4480, jazzrecordcenter.com

MUSIC STORES

Roberto’s Woodwind & Brass, 149 West 46th St. NY, NY 10036,

646-366-0240, robertoswoodwind.com

Sam Ash, 333 W 34th St, New York, NY 10001

Phone: (212) 719-2299 samash.com

Sadowsky Guitars Ltd, 2107 41st Avenue 4th Floor, Long Island

City, NY 11101, 718-433-1990. sadowsky.com

Steve Maxwell Vintage Drums, 723 7th Ave, 3rd Floor, New

York, NY 10019, 212-730-8138, maxwelldrums.com

SCHOOLS, COLLEGES, CONSERVATORIES

92nd St Y, 1395 Lexington Ave, New York, NY 10128

212.415.5500; 92ndsty.org

Brooklyn-Queens Conservatory of Music, 42-76 Main St.,

Flushing, NY, Tel: 718-461-8910, Fax: 718-886-2450

Brooklyn Conservatory of Music, 58 Seventh Ave., Brooklyn,

NY, 718-622-3300, brooklynconservatory.com

City College of NY-Jazz Program, 212-650-5411,

Drummers Collective, 541 6th Ave, New York, NY 10011,

212-741-0091, thecoll.com

Five Towns College, 305 N. Service, 516-424-7000, x Hills, NY

Greenwich House Music School, 46 Barrow St., Tel: 212-242-

4770, Fax: 212-366-9621, greenwichhouse.org

Juilliard School of Music, 60 Lincoln Ctr, 212-799-5000

LaGuardia Community College/CUNI, 31-10 Thomson Ave.,

Long Island City, 718-482-5151

Lincoln Center — Jazz At Lincoln Center, 140 W. 65th St.,

10023, 212-258-9816, 212-258-9900

Long Island University — Brooklyn Campus, Dept. of Music,

University Plaza, Brooklyn, 718-488-1051, 718-488-1372

Manhattan School of Music, 120 Claremont Ave., 10027,

212-749-2805, 2802, 212-749-3025

NJ City Univ, 2039 Kennedy Blvd., Jersey City, 888-441-6528

New School, 55 W. 13th St., 212-229-5896, 212-229-8936

NY University, 35 West 4th St. Rm #777, 212-998-5446

NY Jazz Academy, 718-426-0633 NYJazzAcademy.com

Princeton University-Dept. of Music, Woolworth Center Musical

Studies, Princeton, NJ, 609-258-4241, 609-258-6793

Queens College — Copland School of Music, City University of

NY, Flushing, 718-997-3800

Rutgers Univ. at New Brunswick, Jazz Studies, Douglass Cam-

pus, PO Box 270, New Brunswick, NJ, 908-932-9302

Rutgers University Institute of Jazz Studies, 185 University

Avenue, Newark NJ 07102, 973-353-5595

newarkrutgers.edu/IJS/index1.html

SUNY Purchase, 735 Anderson Hill, Purchase, 914-251-6300

Swing University (see Jazz At Lincoln Center, under Venues)

William Paterson University Jazz Studies Program, 300 Pompton

Rd, Wayne, NJ, 973-720-2320

RADIO

WBGO 88.3 FM, 54 Park Pl, Newark, NJ 07102, Tel: 973-624-

8880, Fax: 973-824-8888, wbgo.org

WCWP, LIU/C.W. Post Campus

WFDU, http://alpha.fdu.edu/wfdu/wfdufm/index2.html

WKCR 89.9, Columbia University, 2920 Broadway

Mailcode 2612, NY 10027, 212-854-9920, columbia.edu/cu/wkcr

ADDITIONAL JAZZ RESOURCES

Big Apple Jazz, bigapplejazz.com, 718-606-8442, gor-

[email protected]

Louis Armstrong House, 34-56 107th St, Corona, NY 11368,

718-997-3670, satchmo.net

Institute of Jazz Studies, John Cotton Dana Library, Rutgers-

Univ, 185 University Av, Newark, NJ, 07102, 973-353-5595

Jazzmobile, Inc., jazzmobile.org

Jazz Museum in Harlem, 104 E. 126th St., 212-348-8300,

jazzmuseuminharlem.org

Jazz Foundation of America, 322 W. 48th St. 10036,

212-245-3999, jazzfoundation.org

New Jersey Jazz Society, 1-800-303-NJJS, njjs.org

New York Blues & Jazz Society, NYBluesandJazz.org

Rubin Museum, 150 W. 17th St, New York, NY,

212-620-5000 ex 344, rmanyc.org.

“It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world

and moral courage so rare.”

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Interview & Photo by Ken Weiss

Ralph Peterson [b. May 20, 1962, Pleasantville,

NJ] has solidified his status as a superb drummer,

bandleader, composer and educator. He proudly

stands on the shoulders of the jazz royalty who

preceded him and feels an earnest responsibility to

spread their message to listeners and students.

Peterson openly talks about his struggles with

drugs, his health battles with cancer, as well as his

time with mentors Michael Carvin, Walter Davis

Jr., Art Blakey, Betty Carter and others. Peterson’s

boisterous personality at times matches his pas-

sionate and explosive drumming but in this phone

interview, taken March 8, 2019, his humble appre-

ciation for all those who have played a supportive

role in his life comes through, along with highly

insightful commentary.

Jazz Inside Magazine: You’re touring this year

with the Ralph Peterson and the Messenger Legacy

band in commemoration of Art Blakey’s 100th

birthday. What’s been your experience playing

with that group of Jazz Messenger alumni and re-

visiting the music from your past?

Ralph Peterson: I started the group in 2014 and

this latest version was put together in preparation to

celebrate Art Blakey’s centennial. The original

Messenger Legacy was Donald Brown, Reggie

Workman, Donald Harrison and Bill Pierce.

There’s been renditions of the band with Craig

Handy, Robin Eubanks, and now with Geoff

Keezer and Essiett Essiett joining Bobby [Watson],

Brian [Lynch] and Bill [Pierce]. Every time we get

together it has a homecoming feel, it’s like a frater-

nal reunion because we are a finite number of indi-

viduals. There were only so many Jazz Messengers

chosen by Art Blakey before he left the planet. We

get together and

laugh and joke and

tell the old stories

and deal with this

music. One of the

interesting observa-

tions that Geoff

Keezer made on a

recent gig was rec-

ognizing that we’re

playing this music

now as fully ma-

tured musicians, 30-years after. We’re playing in

our fifties as opposed to playing in our twenties, so

we get to bring our collective experience of each of

our 30 years, as well as our experiences with Art,

together, and address them. We’re not playing

some sort of repertory tribute, we’re declaring the

sound of Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers is a

living, growing, evolving thing. It’s been a real

blast. It’s a labor of love and responsibility for me.

We’ve got gigs almost every month booked out

until 2020. You know, there’s 2, if not 3, genera-

tions of musicians who never sat in the room and

felt Art move the air the way that only he could do

with the drum set, because it wasn’t just about

hearing it, it was about feeling it.

JI: How did you formulate the Messenger Legacy

band?

RP: I wanted a band that represented as many

different generations of the band as possible. My

first call was to Reggie [Workman] to see if he

would be willing to do it. Interestingly, Reggie

joined Art Blakey the year I was born. As time

went by, with Reggie’s commitment to teaching at

The New School and everything, it became neces-

sary to call another bass player and I called Essiett

Essiett, who I had put on the bandstand with Art

Blakey in 1988 after he did my Triangular record-

ing. I told Art, ‘You gotta hear this cat. You gotta

let him play.’ So Essiett came into the band on my

recommendation, and Bobby’s as well. Bill was a

no-brainer because he was there at Berklee with me

and I’ve been in wonder of him for his consistent

high level of playing and his personal integrity and

wisdom since 1981. Brian, I couldn’t even get the

proposal all the way out before he said, “I’m in!

Where we gonna hit?” [Laughs] It’s been great

having Geoffrey Keezer. Geoffrey, Essiett and

Brian were in the band together, and Bill and Bob-

by were in together, so we have multiple genera-

tions of the Messengers represented. I started play-

ing with the Jazz Messenger Big Band in March of

1983, until Bu’s passing. I’ve been planning and

organizing for 5 years so that when Art’s centenni-

al year hit, that I would be in position with what I

felt was one of the definitive bands to represent and

celebrate his legacy. Yeah, that’s how it happened.

JI: You released two recordings in 2018 on your

own Onyx Productions label and plan two more

releases in 2019. Is that a pace you plan to maintain

moving forward?

RP: I don’t know if I’ll be doing two albums eve-

ry year but when the opportunities present them-

selves, given my recent experiences and challenges

in life, I am more prone to act than to wait, and

having my own record label means having the free-

dom and autonomy to put two records out in the

calendar year. To make a statement that I’m not a

one trick pony, that I can focus on more than one

musical approach at a time. The 2018 releases –

Ralph Peterson’s Gennext Big Band I Remember

Bu record and the quintet Aggregate Prime’s In-

ward Venture recording are very, very different

musical directions. This year the release of the

Messenger Legacy band’s CD will be called Ralph

Peterson and the Messenger Legacy: Legacy Alive

Vol. 6 at the Side Door is set to be released on my

57th birthday – May 20. Later in the year, the big

band will release its second record. The work is

done, it’s a matter of getting organized and getting

the music out. As long as I got the strength to have

the ideas and pull it off, yeah, why not!

JI: You’re known to be a serious student of jazz’s

past masters. Have you formally studied African

percussion?

RP: Not formally, but what I have done is recon-

nected with my roots through my family culture.

My mother’s side of the family comes from the

Caribbean. My grandmother was born in Trinidad

and raised in Barbados, so she’s what you call a

Trini/Badian. What I learned in studying that was

the Caribbean, as a gateway to America from South

America in the sea routing of the slave trade, creat-

ed a couple of very unique cultural and national-

istic hubs, one of which is Brazil. I learned there

are more Africans in Brazil than there is any other

place on earth, except Africa. And Trinidad and

Barbados are very close to South America. I’m

studying various musics and learning things about

how to play them and getting feedback from elder

musicians like Ellis Marsalis. I was on the road

with Delfeayo [Marsalis’] band with Ellis and we

would do our little second line stuff, of course, as is

required in Delfeayo’s band, and me being from

South Jersey, both Delfeayo and Ellis were appre-

ciative of the way I tried to be true to the second

line feeling as taught to me by Alvin Batiste back

when I was recording Discernment [1986] with

Terence Blanchard and Donald Harrison. As I stud-

ied, I realized that, and I don’t want to get into too

technical a breakdown about it, I think one day it

could end up being a master thesis if I ever went

back to school, but rhythmic resolution and the

downbeat of four is a common phenomenon in the


Ralph Peterson Not Afraid To Live

INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

“Swing is one of those words, like the name of God. It reveals itself to different

cultures in different ways at different times … The notion that the irrepressible, irresistible, invisible force in music that

compels you to move, has been in music since the beginning of music …”



music of West Africa, South America, the Caribbe-

an, including Cuba, and up into New Orleans.

We’d be on the road, telling jokes, I’d be dropping

one-liners from my beloved grandmother, who

could set you straight and make you laugh all at the

same time, and all of a sudden, Ellis asked me,

“Man, where do your people come from?” I told

him my grandmother’s heritage and he said, “Oh,

that explains why you play second line the way you

do.” I asked him what he meant and if I was doing

something wrong, and Ellis said, “ No, no, no, for

me it wasn’t until I went to carnival and calypso in

the Caribbean that I really understood what second

line was about.” What’s important about that, in

my experience, is that as a student of both history

and the music, your knowledgebase broadens when

you come to the realization that something always

comes from somewhere, and when you make that

connection of where it comes from, [Laughs] —

that’s a title of a tune by Michele Rosewoman on

one of my recordings—it changes you, it alters you

in a way that can’t be undone. I’m grateful for that

process.

JI: Have you performed in Africa?

RP: I have yet to set foot on the motherland. It is a

goal of mine. I made some contacts this year at the

Winter Jazz Fest and I’m hoping to get an invite,

but not yet. At some point, if I don’t get invited,

I’m just gonna buy a ticket and go. I’ll be going to

China and Australia for the first time later this year,

all touring with the Messenger Legacy. I’ve been to

pretty much every place else except Alaska and I

can barely get through the winters in Massachu-

setts. [Laughs]

JI: Would you talk about your take on swing and

its importance to your music?

RP: Swing is one of those words, like the name of

God. It reveals itself to different cultures in differ-

ent ways at different times. In the Afro-Cuban

tradition, there’s swing. In the African tradition of

Bembe Abakua, there’s swing. The notion that the

irrepressible, irresistible, invisible force in music

that compels you to move, has been in music since

the beginning of music, and it wasn’t until the

American experience, which in part included the

African American experience, that the terminology

swing was used to identify this phenomenon. I

have maybe a broader window of acceptance for

what swingin’ is. I mean I know what it is specifi-

cally but when you say stuff is funky, you’re talk-

ing about it’s swingin’, it’s just swinging in a dif-

ferent way. The other part of my answer is I think

swing, as we know it in the so-called jazz music,

African American classical music, is not a lost art

but it’s an art that is being mistakenly viewed as

arcane and/or taken for granted. But ignorance and

awareness run in cycles within the culture, so it

doesn’t surprise me. There is no one approach to

swing. The way Art Blakey played swing and the

way Max Roach, Elvin Jones, and Roy Haynes

played swing is simultaneously different and the

same. That’s what I mean about the feeling of the

Messenger Legacy not being a repertoire group.

How do I conjure the feeling and spirit in tribute to

Art Blakey without sounding like I’m playing dead

people music all the time? How do I play the music

in a way that is going to excite and interest and

inspire young people to be drawn towards it?

That’s the challenge in this project. Art was always

looking to slip in a little funk beat into the music.

He was always open, he loved music.

JI: What’s been the hardest thing for you to mas-

ter during your career?

RP: That’s patience, across the board – musically,

in business, in life, in relationships, in dealing with

people, and for my own growth spiritually. I’ve

been through some things recently and I’m stand-

ing in some woods now that have changed my

perspective about what’s important. I’m not out of

the woods yet but dam it, I’m holding an ax. You

know, there’s a certain kind of freedom that comes,

and I’m not saying this as breaking news, this is

just the existential realization that life is finite. But

when you have some experiences that really bring

you to a point of acceptance with that, not that

anything is imminent, I don’t want to suggest that

in this interview, because we’re fighting the good

fight, and just for today, we’re winning the battle.

I’ve had 4 cancer surgeries in the last 3 years, and

I’ve got a permanent ostomy site. My CEA [cancer

marker] was up to 25 again last year, and I’ve been

on chemo every 2 weeks over the past 7 months,

and my CEA is down to 5. So, like I said, I’m not

out of the woods but I’m fighting this with an ax

and I’m looking for a chainsaw. [Laughs] But it

simplifies things in terms of what’s important –

playing this music, guarding this music, which is

another name for teaching, and just being the best

person that I can be.

JI: Is there repertoire that you play today that you

didn’t feel comfortable performing early in your

career?

RP: No, I was always up for the challenge and the

more you play challenging music, the more you

learn about how to play music. I never shied away

or felt intimidated by any piece of music. It’s al-

ways been a vehicle for me to become a better

musician, which is what I want to do.

JI: You’ve wanted to play drums professionally

since seeing Sonny Payne performing with the

Count Basie Orchestra when you were 12. What

did you see in Payne’s drumming that captivated

you?

RP: Oh my God, there was a combination of in-

credible execution and incredible showmanship,

and showmanship to the point of leadership, even.

It was amazing the relationship that Sonny Payne

had in Count Basie’s orchestra. Count Basie was

clearly the chief, that was never questioned because

he was the kind of leader that let everybody shine

and knew that the strength of the Count Basie

brand rested on the power of the people in the or-

chestra. He would cut Sonny loose and just watch

it, like the rest of us, in awe of him. He was the

most entertaining, great drummer I’ve ever seen.

Not all musicians are entertainers, or try to be.

Some come out to perform and some come out to

entertain you without passing a certain virtuosity

level, but Sonny Payne had that ability to demon-

strate virtuosity and the highest levels of showman-

ship at the same time. My father played drums, but

I had never seen drums played like that.

JI: It was almost inevitable that you would play

drums. You come from a family of percussionists

including 4 uncles and your grandfather, yet you

didn’t know the basic drum rudiments, and failed

your college drum audition at Rutgers. Why, with

all the drummers around you, did you not have the

drum basics down?

RP: Because we learned drums in the African

tradition – the oral tradition. In Africa, a drum

lesson is taught with the master drummer on one

side and the student drummer on the other side of

an animal skin, and the lesson is played by the

master. The student’s job is to recreate the sound of

the lesson and until the proper technique is execut-

ed, the proper sound will not emerge. The master

will continue to play the lesson over and over and

over, and once the student gets close enough to the

lesson, then the master will alter the lesson to the

next evolution. So that’s the tradition from which I

learned music and I’m grateful for that because it

gave me big ears. It’s also the reason that I’ve

learned how to play trumpet because I learned


Ralph Peterson

“I was always up for the challenge and the more you play challenging music, the more you learn about how to play music. I never shied away or felt intimidated by any piece of music. It’s always been a

vehicle for me to become a better musician, which is what I want to do.”


trumpet to learn how to read rhythms. When I was

in marching band, I was playing trumpet, I wasn’t

playing drums, and marching band would have

been the natural place for me to have been exposed

to and learn my rudiments. I only played drums in

high school in the jazz ensemble. It’s not a com-

mon routing but it’s how I got where I’m at. Being

compelled to learn my rudiments by Michael Carv-

in was the best thing that ever happened to me

because that was the first time musically that I was

ever told “no.” It’s funny because I see the same

confounded look on students that I teach now who

are talented but haven’t done the requisite legwork

to bring their skill levels up to their talent. Talent is

like hope, and hope is like temp tags on an automo-

bile – after 30-days it runs out. [Laughs] Skilled

people aren’t born with their skills, they have to

develop them. That’s the work.

JI: How did you finally convince Professor Mi-

chael Carvin that you were a legitimate drum stu-

dent and qualified to be taken into the Rutgers’

drum program?

RP: I came back the next semester knowing my

rudiments. He told me, “There’s 26 rudiments,

there’s 26 letters in the alphabet, go learn the al-

phabet of the language of drumming and then you

can study with me.” When people deal with you

with that level of frankness, it’s actually easy.

[Laughs] The world would be a better place if eve-

rybody did more of that. The person that needed

convincing was Paul Jeffries because he was the

director of the big band and he took my trumpet

audition. He knew me as a trumpet player, so we

literally had to trick him by organizing a switching

out of the drummers during a casual campus con-

cert. When his back was turned, I switched out

with the drummer that was playing, and when Jef-

fries turned around to call the next section, he real-

ized he didn’t know how long I had been playing,

and that was how I convinced him. You know,

after meeting Terence [Blanchard], [Laughs] I

realized that there are people who play trumpet and

then there are trumpet players. Like there are peo-

ple who drink beer and there’s beer drinkers. Peo-

ple who drink beer shouldn’t try to drink with beer

drinkers. They will get hurt! [Laughs] I realized I

like the trumpet but I’m a drummer that plays the

trumpet. I’m still very much into it, and I’m play-

ing a lot of cornet these days because the stoma

changed some of my wind pressure realities. The

conical bore of the cornet makes it a little bit less

strenuous in my lower abdomen. I’m starting to

rebuild my ability to play sustain on horn, which

took its toll through the operations and the chemo

because the chemo effected my dental work. It

started to eat the bone, teeth became loose, and I

couldn’t play it for a minute. I needed to have an

incredible amount of dental work done over 4

months and now I‘ve got 5 or 6 teeth in my head

that I haven’t had in 20 years, [Laughs] and it’s

changing the way I talk and play the horn. I’m

dealing and growing from that.

JI: Your college training began on trumpet since

you were more advanced on that instrument. Why

not stay on the trumpet track at that point? Addi-

tionally, your charismatic personality seems better

suited to the front of the stage, rather than the rear

where the drums reside.

RP: I don’t accept the premise of that assertion

because if you asked Miles Davis who’s the most

important person in his band, he’d always answer

that the drum was most important. I’ve never heard

a great band with a sad drummer, and I’ve heard ok

bands that were kept afloat by good and great

drummers. It could be argued that the drums are

actually the front line. Art Blakey’s approach to

drumming is something that is unique and not

talked about or understood enough. He came from

the big band tradition of Fletcher Henderson. Bill

Pierce ingeniously summed up Art Blakey’s ap-

proach to drumming perfectly to me when he said,

“Art Blakey is a master of big band drumming in a

small group setting,” and the longer you think

about that, the more sense it makes, if you think

about the way Jazz Messenger music sounds.

That’s why we’re celebrating Art Blakey now. It’s

not just because of all the guys that came through

his band, but for how he changed the trajectory of

music, and why.

JI: During your college years, Paul Jeffries brought

in numerous established visiting artists. Philly Joe

Jones was one who was especially helpful to you.

RP: It was through Philly that I learned what Mi-

chael Carvin was trying to teach me by learning the

rudiments. Most drummers play rudiments, wheth-

er they know they’re playing rudiments or not.

Meeting Philly Joe, who is to me, the highest, ele-

gant expression of rudimental drumming in the

history of music. Yeah, I’ll go out there and say it.

In the standard 26, yeah, it’s Philly Joe. When you

get out into the Swiss and the basic 40, then you

gotta start talking about Tony [Williams] and Jack

[DeJohnette] and Carvin and Eric Gravatt. When

Philly came to the school, to show respect for him,

I tried to write out and learn his famous drum break

from the tune “Ah-Leu-Cha,” from Round About

Midnight. So, I wrote it up on manuscript, as neatly

as I could, ran up to him, like an idiot, and said,

‘Ah, Mr. Jones, look at this.’ And he looked at it,

and I’m sure he had experienced this before be-

cause of the way he handled it, and he said, “Oh,

what’s this?” I said, ‘It’s your drum break from

“Ah-Leu-Cha,”’ and he said, “Well, how do you

know? Where’s the sticking?” And then I had that

deer in the headlights puzzled look that students

have when they don’t have an answer. [Laughs] I

said, ‘I’m only 18-years-old, I wasn’t around to be

able to see you play this,’ and he said, “If you

knew your rudiments, you’d have an idea.” He

made it clear to me that he had already peeped my

hold card as a musician, [Laughs] and I hadn’t even

held a pair of sticks in my hand yet. He knew right

away not only did I not understand what rudiments

were, but that I hardly, if ever, had touched a pair

of brushes. Philly Joe also gave me my first pair of

brushes. He said, “You can’t come to the gig un-

prepared. If you’re a plumber, you can’t come to

the job with no wrenches… You’ve got to have the

proper tools to do the job.” The third thing I got

from that experience with Philly Joe is that Walter

Davis Jr. came with Philly Joe to the gig, and it

was through Walter that I kind of got on the path-

way to meeting Art, because Walter gave me my

first gig in New York at Barry Harris’ Jazz Show-

case. Yeah, that was a very important time in my

life and that’s why I take my teaching so seriously

because my college days were very important to

me in terms of keeping me in the music. I think it’s

harder now because there’s less clubs and less op-

portunities for band leaders my age. See, when

there’s more opportunities for band leaders my age,

there’s more opportunities for young players to

grow. It’s getting done in the larger cities, but it

certainly is a heavier lift than it used to be. The

industry is so geared towards youth, American

culture in general is so geared towards youth and

sees experience as something to push back against.

JI: Woody Shaw was another visiting musician

who came to your school and obviously inspired

you. You recorded four of his compositions on

your 2010 Outer Reaches album.

RP: Outer Reaches was the debut of my label,

Onyx Music, and it was not only a tribute to

Woody, but to all jazz New Jersey. I came up out

of the organ tradition in New Jersey, which is seri-

ous and deep there. New Jersey had the organ clubs

and great players, including Larry Young. Woody’s

playing, I mean I understand it from a numeric,

technical thing. I understand what he’s doing, but I

don’t know how he did it. It just freaks me out, the


“Talent is like hope, and hope is like temp tags on an automobile – after 30-days it runs out. [Laughs]

Skilled people aren’t born with their skills, they have to develop them.

That’s the work.”

Ralph Peterson


stuff he played on that horn. He just defied the

physics of the horn. If you learn to play the wider

intervals that he was linking together, you start to

come into that phrase feeling that he generated. A

lot of trumpet players nowadays understand that

and certainly use it. I was a Maynard Ferguson

freak until I heard Dizzy Gillespie, and after Dizzy

I heard Clifford [Brown], and then I heard Freddie

[Hubbard], so there’s a very lyrical base there, but

that shit Woody was doing? I can only associate it

with Coltrane, at that point. And there was a lot of

it that I didn’t listen to because it was over my

head. A lot of Woody Shaw and Joe Henderson

was lost on me until my ear gained a level of so-

phistication and maturity in order to appreciate it.

I’m still fascinated by Woody. I’m also really

grateful to have been able to work with another

trumpet player who is pushing on that vocabulary

in his own way. I’m talking about my former stu-

dent, Sean Jones, who I taught at Rutgers when he

was in grad school. Sean not only understands the

Woody thing but has combined it with the Bill

Fielder thing and his own thing to really open up

the sound and vocabulary. When he goes there,

there’s nobody that can deal with him. Josh Evans

also has a very wonderful voice of his own that is

reminiscent of Woody, yet very much his own.

Yeah, I just sit back and admire those guys, and if

they let me come on the bandstand to play my little

two choruses, then I can do that, take my bow, and

get the hell off the stage.

JI: During the midpoint of your college days, you

played in Walter Davis Jr.’s trio. He’s overlooked

today. Would you talk about him and give a

memory?

RP: That was around 1982. Walter taught me the

Bud Powell and Thelonious Monk repertoire, as

well as all of his incredible body of work as a com-

poser, which, when the Messenger Legacy goes

into the studio, will be addressed in no small way.

That’s a peek at 2020, hopefully before it’s all

done. Right now, we’re not playing any of Walter’s

music in the book, but I imagine we’ll get there.

Walter would teach me. He would do things like

call me at 7:30 in the morning and ask me, “What’s

the first chord in the bridge of “Stablemates?” At

7:30 in the morning! [Laughs] He would also sit

down and play songs like “Un Poco Loco,” and

“Glass Enclosure,” or Thelonious Monk’s

“Humph.” The really obscure stuff, and he would-

n’t call them, he’d just sit down and start playing

them. You’d have to get in where you fit in, hang

in, and then your job was to come back the next

time and not be fooled. I remember him wanting

me to learn a tune and I was just being lazy about

learning it, so he would just call somebody else

down to the club who knew the tune and have them

sit in and play. Let me tell you, when you feel the

threat of unemployment, you get your shit together,

[Laughs] and he don’t even have to tell you that

you need to get your shit together. No, it’s implied

in the experience. It was always done with love,

but it was also always done with the music being

the most important thing, not my feelings. Some-

times, these days, in these institutional efforts to

protect this music, we let the inmates run the ward

and the tail wags the dog because we want every-

body to be our friends. Friendship can be an out-

growth of the experience, but if you’re my friend,

and you’re not dealing with the music, I’d rather

you hate my guts and be playing your ass off to

spite me, because it’s the music I care about, the

music you make as a student.

JI: So why did Walter Davis Jr. call you so early

in the morning?

RP: Walter was more than a musician. He was a

parent, he was a style coach, he was a tailor. He

used to make a lot of his own clothes, he would do

that in the morning. What it did was make me

question why I had only been asleep for only 3 or 4

hours. He wouldn’t question me like that, he’d say,

“Oh, you’re still sleeping.” He wouldn’t ride me

about it, but he’d still keep calling again. It wasn’t

an everyday thing, it wasn’t like he was a drill

sergeant. He was more like Yoda.

JI: Your most significant early break came in

1983. While still in college, Art Blakey asked you

to become the second drummer in his band, which

you did until his death in 1990. Was he having

health issues at the point he hired you?

RP: Blakey wasn’t having health issues when he

hired me, he was as strong as a bull in ’83. He did-

n’t start showing signs of wear until late ’89. His

decline was fairly rapid and merciful in that way.

He was able to go out pretty much playing until the

end. I met Art Blakey at the Jazz Forum, I sat in at

Mikell's, and at Mikell's he said, “I’ve been waiting

for you. We gonna put the big band together.”

Now, he would say that occasionally to people, but

this time he did it, and it was like winning the lot-

tery and a graduate research fellowship all at he

same time. And I’m not talking about the money

that was paid, I’m talking about the value of the

knowledge that I learned. Yes, I did it until he was

no longer with us, and then went back one more

year to Mt. Fuji and I did it with Lewis Nash, the

year after he passed.

JI: How intimidating was it to take the stage with

Art Blakey that first night?

RP: You gotta remember to breathe. I was ok on

the shuffles, but I wasn’t clear on how much he

wanted me to play. I would just watch him and try

to mimic him, stay under him soundwise. But then

it became clear to me that he wanted the feeling of

two drummers playing at the same time. He trusted

the work that I had done to learn about him and

how he played. He trusted it more than I did, so his

encouragement was to go ahead and play because

he knew I wouldn’t stray far from him. He knew I

wouldn’t bust into any Tony Williams-isms or Max

Roach-isms. He knew that my reverence and defer-

ence at that point was completely there.

JI: What was Art Blakey most critical about re-

garding your playing?

RP: About being myself. Even when I was trying

to play his stuff, sometimes I would try to physical-

ly execute it the way I would see him execute it,

and I couldn’t pull it off. But when I closed my

eyes and focused on the sound, I would get closer,

even though mechanically I was pulling the sound

out with a different technical approach. We were

built very physically different so we’re not gonna

create the same sound on the drums the same way.

Physics doesn’t allow that, and of course, the mus-

cle and the sound that was embedded in his hands,

I hadn’t even begun to develop a sound yet. He

would be critical through encouragement with me.

He never really dogged me. You know what he

dogged me on? He dogged me on stuff off the

bandstand, on not letting women get inside of my

head and pull me away from the music, or get in-

between me and any musician. He was adamant

about me being the best parent I could be. You

know, his son Takashi lived with my mother and

father for a summer or two in New Jersey long

before I even played with the band, so we were

connected like family. He had a home in North-

field, and I grew up in Pleasantville. At that point,

my father was deputy chief sheriff in Rutherford.

JI: It’s a classic story that at your first rehearsal

with the Jazz Messengers, Blakey told you to arrive

at a certain time, and then he showed up five hours

late, and the first thing he asked was if you had

showed up on time. As far as a learning experience,

what did you take from that early incident?


“I remember [Walter Davis Jr.] wanting me to learn a tune and I was just being lazy about

learning it, so he would just call somebody else down to the club who knew the tune and have them sit in and play. Let me tell you, when you feel the threat of unemployment, you get your shit together, [Laughs] and he don’t even have

to tell you that you need to …”

Ralph Peterson


RP: To be on time is the most important thing

about playing time. We weren’t just sitting around,

waiting for him to show up. We rehearsed and ate,

and I learned the music. If he had walked in, God

forbid, and found out that, “Oh, you didn’t come so

we just left,” he’d have fired everybody! [Laughs]

Many of the drummers who you will see paying

tribute to Art Blakey, in addition to me, like Carl

Allen, Cindy Blackman, Terri [Lyne Carrington],

they used to all fall by the rehearsals and play,

because very often, when a new piece of music was

brought, Art would learn it just listening first. And

if he could listen to somebody else play it, then he

could figure out what he wanted to do with it

quicker. There are other drummers who were cer-

tainly mentored by Bu in that process, and they

were all in New York when I got there, but for

some reason there was something about me that

made him relaunch the big band. And that meant a

lot to me and still means a lot to me. That’s why I

don’t take this Messenger Legacy project lightly at

all.

JI: Who was the first drummer to join him in the

band?

RP: His son, Art Jr.

JI: Would you share a memory of Art Blakey?

RP: There are Art Blakey stories for public con-

sumption and there are Art Blakey stories that re-

main closed-holed. One that I tell my students all

the time is we were at Mt. Fuji, rehearsing the big

band and the phrasing in the trumpet and trombone

sections was not happening. Art was not at the

beginning of the rehearsal. I was playing and the

cats in the band, all the Jazz Messengers at that

point, were trying to tell me how to play like Art

Blakey. You dig? None of them being drummers,

by the way. So, it’s getting a little testy, and Art

comes in and listens and observes for a minute and

stops the band and goes on a 30-minute diatribe

because none of the horn players are tapping their

feet. He’s saying, “What the hell are you looking at

Ralph for if none of y’all keeping your own time?

Each tub stands on its own legs.” So, it was a nice

moment of advocacy for me. It taught me some-

thing important of ensemble playing in that every-

body is responsible for their own time, and when

everybody’s responsible for their own time, the

drummer is then set free to become creative. If I’m

not carrying your water, I can drink my own.

JI: You also got to play for Elvin Jones towards

the end of his life.

RP: That came in 2000 at the 19th anniversary of

the New York Blue Note jazz club. It was also the

year that Elvin Jones had surgery on his femoral

arteries in his legs. He was performing that week at

the club and wasn’t sure of his physical ability and

wanted someone on hand every night in case he

needed to pass the baton. So, not only am I the last

drummer that Art Blakey called, but I’m actually

the last drummer that Elvin Jones called to sub for

him. He hired me to be at the Blue Note every

night and I think I played drums three times out of

the six-night engagement. After I played, the next

two nights, I never heard him play so strong in all

the times I heard him play. He let me play trumpet

on a couple of tunes with the band after he found

out that I could play the horn. So, I had musical

usefulness, as well as a practical usefulness. That

was an amazing week because it was like a post-

graduate, high-intensity, up-close and personal

daily master class. It was the kind of thing that

changes your life forever. I was four-years clean at

that time and Michael Carvin told me that before

they called me, they called him and asked, “Is your

boy cool? Is your boy ready?” [Laughs] Because

my youthful indiscretions had become the stuff of

legend and folklore, and I had become my own

worst enemy. Thank God, next month I’ll be 23-

years drink and drug free. It’s well in my rearview

mirror now, but we go through what we go

through.

JI: Blue Note Records formed Out of the Blue

(OTB), a young lions all-star ensemble in 1984.

There was some negative buzz related to your time

with that band.

RP: I’m not sure about the negative buzz at that

time, the youthful indiscretions hadn’t even taken

off yet. I still had milk on my breath, I was drink-

ing chocolate milk at the gigs [Laughs] at that

point. I wasn’t the first choice for that band. I be-

lieve Lewis Nash was the original drummer of

choice. I don’t spend a lot of time worrying about

anybody that has a problem with me, especially if

they’re too much of a coward to bring it to me like

a grownup. What you might be referring to was my

exit from the band. We were all enlisted in this

band on the promise that it was a cooperative group

and that we would have equal say in what went on

with the band, musically and businesswise, and

publicity would be shared. Particularly after the

Inside Track record [1986], when Kenny Garrett

went to Art Blakey, and Bob Hurst went to Wynton

Marsalis, and Harry Pickens moved out to Arizona

to support his ill wife, and Renee [Rosnes], Kenny

Davis and Steve Wilson came in the band, there

was a shift. A lot of the focus on the marketing of

the band seemed to hover around Ralph Bowen and

Mike Mossman, which was not what I was told

coming in. Also, I was hearing – “You guys should

just be grateful for the opportunity.” Well, opportu-

nities are great, but you can’t pay no bills with

them. I was starting to stand on principle on some

business issues, and when you stand for something,

you sometimes expose yourself to the slings and

arrows. So, when it was time for me to move on, I

did so seamlessly because at that point, I was work-

ing with Stanley Turrentine, David Murray, Henry

Threadgill and Jon Faddis, all at the same time. So,

I had a broad spectrum of musical outlets, and

within six months of leaving the band, I was ap-

proached by Toshiba EMI and given the opportuni-

ty to be the first release in the early ‘80s saving of

Blue Note Records by Toshiba EMI. That bailout,

which was a distribution deal between Toshiba

EMI, Somethin’ Else Records and Blue Note, is

how my first six records became released on the

Blue Note label, and so, to me, the universe had

balanced itself because at that point I had autono-

my. I could stand for what I believed in as a leader.

I can remember traveling issues, being told that I

could travel a certain class, but the band would

have to fly another class, and I declined, saying

either we all fly the same class or no class. That

kind of integrity is something I learned from the

people who taught me music. I never wanted the

music to be disrespected just because the people

who happened to be playing it were young.

JI: Your career had almost a magical beginning.

You played with Art Blakey and had the backing of

the historic Blue Note label. You bypassed the

typical years of struggling to earn a reputation that

other musicians had to endure. Would you talk

about your early days on the New York scene?

RP: No, it wasn’t easy because I was young and

stupid. I was clearly a part of the early ‘80s jazz

renaissance. I was set up to be the Blue Note’s

answer to what Wynton and Branford were doing

at CBS, without a doubt. That’s what OTB was

about. That’s what my records were about, but it

didn’t necessarily make working in New York that

much easier as a leader because New York had

more clubs then, and guys who are my age now

were still leading bands. And you could hear the

difference between older guys leading bands and

bands led by younger guys, and the audience still

had a great level of sophistication and appreciation

for music created by guys who are my age now.

One of the things I think is important in the resusci-


“Many of the drummers who you will see paying tribute to Art Blakey ... like Carl Allen, Cindy

Blackman, Terri, they used to all fall by the re-hearsals and play, because very often, when a

new piece of music was brought, Art would learn it just listening first. And if he could listen to somebody else play it, then he could figure

out what he wanted to do with it quicker.”

Ralph Peterson


tation of this music is to go back and grab young

people and show them how hip the people they

think are outdated really are because the music that

people are playing now, the groove constructs that

a lot of creative musicians are playing on, are the R

& B and funk roots that guys my age grew out of,

and they think it’s new! It’s fucking hilarious.

[Laughs] They think they discovered it.

JI: David Murray hired you in the mid-late ‘80s for

his octet which featured avant-garde players such

as Baikida Carroll, Craig Harris and Wilbur Mor-

ris. How was it playing in that setting?

RP: It helped me to not get completely swept up in

the cliched language of my generation. My contem-

poraries – Wynton, Branford, Terence, Marlon

Jordan, Mulgrew, we were all influenced by a par-

ticular kind of language, and what was great about

David, and playing with David, was he knew I

possessed that, but he would challenge me not to

play it. He would really get in my face not to play

certain things that I played in other bands. He said,

“I didn’t bring you in here to change my music into

how you want it to sound.” So that’s how you learn

to be a sideman, which really teaches you to be a

leader. That’s the process that’s getting circum-

vented now, which is why, I believe, the music and

the careers and the longevity of some of these mu-

sicians just don’t have the staying power, because

the music doesn’t have the depth. You know, a

house that’s built on top of the ground is different

from a house that has a ten-foot foundation dug all

the way around. And when life happens to those

two houses, depending on what it is, one could end

up floating down the damn street because it ain’t

anchored to nothing.

JI: Michael Brecker hired you in 1998 and you

developed a closeness with him. You’ve said he

taught you balance between performing and living.

Would you expound on that?

RP: Michael and I shared some things in life that

were spiritual in nature, not religious, and that spir-

itual growth led us to conversations about the dif-

ference between who I am, what I am, and what I

do. Because I used to walk around with my chest

out, saying, ‘Yeah, playing music is not what I do,

it’s what I am.’ What I learned from Michael is that

I’m a father, I’m a son, I’m a brother, I’m an uncle,

I’m a teacher, a mentor. I’m all those things, pri-

marily through music, but also through martial arts

and fellowships and fraternal organizations that I

belong to which enable me to have impact on the

solutions in my community, and therefore in the

world. That’s what’s important about being, not

where my record charts on jazz radio.

JI: Is it true that when you played trumpet in

Brecker’s band, he would play the drums?

RP: Michael Brecker was one of the most com-

plete musicians I’ve ever played with. We would

often, during the encore bass solo, when James

Genus would play, we would both walk off stage

and I would grab the horn and Michael would sit

down at the drums, and I would play a solo after

the bass solo. We used to have a lot of fun with

that. I miss Mike a lot, he used to call me, like

Elvin, always checking in with how I was living, in

terms of keeping my life clean. He would remem-

ber to call me on my “clean date.” You don’t al-

ways experience that level of caring from human

beings that you play music with.

JI: You also spent time with Betty Carter. She was

famous for developing young artists. What was

your experience with her and how did she chal-

lenge you?

RP: I wasn’t a young artist when I got to Betty

Carter, that was the most challenging thing about it.

That was the biggest head job. When I joined Bet-

ty’s band, I was 34, going on 35, and most people

were leaving that band by the time they got in their

‘30s, if they lasted that long. I subbed for a gig at

Yoshi’s with Craig Handy, Curtis Lundy, Jacky

Terrasson, and maybe Mark Shim. I ended up stay-

ing with the band for about 10 months after that. It

was an incredible experience to play with Betty. I

did so much training on tempo and dynamic transi-

tion with playing with her records, so the oppor-

tunity to be able to play that stuff with Betty, while

she was still here, was a dream come true because I

thought I was too old for that opportunity. Here’s

an interesting thing – I call Betty Carter the nicest

firing I’ve ever had. When Betty let me go, she told

me, “You need to go on and develop your own

band. I ain’t got nothing else I really need to teach

you.” And she said, “Plus, there’s a few more y’all

I want to get to before I get out of here.” And I

didn’t know what it meant then, but she knew that

she was sick. I was like,’ Oh, Betty, you gonna live

forever. Thanks for the opportunity, call me if you

need me,’ and then a year-and-a-half later, she was

gone. I’m grateful for all of those playing experi-

ences that I’ve had because they fashioned me into

whatever weapon it is that I am now.

JI: V [1989, Blue Note] was your first recording as

a leader. It’s significant that five of the six tunes

are your own originals. In the liner notes you add-

ed, “My hope is to further the cause of drummers

as leaders, not by leading with drums, but by lead-

ing with a high level of musicality.” It’s 30 years

later, how would you judge today’s level of drum-

mer musicality?

RP: I believe that it is really great, as exemplified

by Antonio Sanchez, Dafnis Prieto, Quincy Phil-

lips, and Eric Harland, and all of these cats that can

play way more piano than I can play trumpet. They

are incredible musicians. All of the drummers who

write and arrange and do more than just keep time.

I’ve had a really successful run as a teacher myself,

and I’m really proud of the guys I’ve had the op-

portunity and blessing to work with because as I

help them grow, they help me grow. Antonio

Sanchez and all the way up to Justin Faulkner,

Mark Whitfield Jr., Jonathan Pinson, Johnathan

Blake, E.J. Strickland, Ari Hoenig, and so many

more. I’m really grateful to have the opportunity to

pass on whatever it is that I have and make sure

that it lives. That what guys like Art and Elvin, and

lesser known people like George (Red) Walcott

and Eddie Gladden passed on to me, that I can pass

on to them, and they can pass on to their students.

In a way, that’s kind of the path to immortality.

JI: Beginning with your first leader recording,

you’ve shown interest in working with unusual

time signatures and structures. What attracts you to

that?

RP: I’m not sure what attracts me to that. The chal-

lenge of finding the groove and asymmetry. Swing

exists in 17 too, it’s just not as obvious. The central

focus of [my band] the Fo’Tet deals in asymmet-

rical swing concepts, whether it’s Afro Cuban or

whether it’s what I like to call “Swunk,” which is

like part swing, part funk, swing with a backbeat.

I’m not sure why I’m attracted to that, it’s a prod-

uct of who I am and what I came through musically

and how I try to bridge all the disparate influences

that have impacted on how I hear music.

JI: [Pianist] Geri Allen played on your earliest

recordings. Would you share a memory of her?

RP: We were doing a promotional follow-up to the

Triangular record and Mild Seven cigarettes from

Japan, came in, put us in the studio, put us in all

these designer clothes, and shot a video. The studio

was hot, they had to turn the air off during taping

because of the noise that it made. And we were

doing “Just One of Those Things” at warp seven

tempo. We got finished with the first and the sec-

ond takes and I was done, but Geri wanted one

more shot at it. Now you could have taken my shirt

and jacket off and rung it out, but Geri was like,

“Let’s do one more.” I said, ‘Geri, what do you

want from me?’ And Geri hollered back, “My dig-

nity!” [Laughs] She had felt that she hadn’t played

well but that’s just the humble place that she came

from. I never heard Geri not play well, each solo

was a masterpiece. She was one of the most in-the-

moment musicians I ever had the privilege of play-

ing with. Nobody gets out of this life alive. We

need to cherish and bring our champions their roses

while they’re here and honor them.

JI: Ornettology [1991, Blue Note] includes your

first recorded horn solo. [It was on cornet]. Why

did you wait nine years to release your next horn

solo [Back to Stay, 2000, Sirocco Jazz]?

RP: I don’t know why it took nine years but some

of that had to do with when it was recorded and

released, and my trials and tribulations in learning

how to live and stay clean, which led to the title of

Back to Stay, because that’s what I was coming

back from – a relapse.

JI: In interviews over the years, you’ve often men-

tioned a desire to release a recording featuring

yourself on trumpet. Why the delay and when will

that happen?

RP: Because playing the trumpet is a full-time gig.

I’m planning on going on sabbatical at Berklee

soon. I’ve never taken one, and once I go on sab-

batical, I’m going deep, deep into the shed on horn

because I’ll have that block of time to dedicate to

it, and then I’ll record. There’s also been all the

other issues I’ve dealt with. Life happens, with or

without your permission.


Ralph Peterson


JI: You’ve also become proficient on bass and

piano. Have you given thought to a one-man-band,

solo project with overlapping tracks of piano, trum-

pet, bass and drums?

RP: No, I don’t play enough bass and piano for

that. I have thought about doing the trumpet re-

cording in a particular way where nobody on the

record is playing on their primary instrument.

JI: What would be the benefit of that situation?

RP: I think each person would be able to express

themselves from their alter ego.

JI: Your final Blue Note recording Art [1994] was

a tribute to the then recently passed Art Blakey. In

the album’s liner notes, you point out that shortly

before Blakey died, he told you that the best way to

pay tribute to him was to be yourself. How did that

conversation come about?

RP: After my daughter was born, he was at my

apartment in New York, with my daughter sitting

on his lap, eating curried chicken that I had cooked,

telling me, “You don’t have to chase me musically

anymore. You don’t have to try to play like me

because you couldn’t deny me musically if some-

body held a gun to your head.” And he was gone

within a year-and-a-half of that. So, he not only

gave me permission but insisted that I at least start

to reach for my own stuff. And what I find in play-

ing this Messenger Legacy project, I am challenged

to do both – honor him but be myself. And when I

lose sight of being myself, I very often musically

find myself frustrated. There were two times during

this first West Coast tour where I literally heard his

voice in my spirit say to me on a particular song,

“Well, what the fuck do you have to say about

this?” [Laughs] A kind of, that’s enough about me,

what about you? It’s a delicate balance because if

my point of departure is something other than Art

Blakey, then it becomes a thing that anybody else

can do, and the Messenger Legacy is the closet

you’re gonna get to that feeling. Some generations

have never heard it or felt it, and while I’m here, I

can’t let that happen.

JI: Blue Note Records purged part of their back

catalog at one point, including your early record-

ings. What was your reaction upon hearing that?

RP: I wanted a leasing deal, I still want a leasing

deal. Every time an artist releases a record, it seems

to me that every label that has ever recorded that

artist has an opportunity to sell units of the record

that they recorded with that artist, especially in the

digital age where space and storage is not an issue.

It seems the most ass-backwards thing is to put a

record out of print or purge a catalog. That’s bean

counter language. Some part of a record label has

to have at its core the preservation of the culture. I

would love to come to an agreement with Toshiba

EMI and rerelease my early recordings, but I can’t

seem to get a conversation started with them.

That’s good music. We were young and full of piss

and vinegar.

JI: You started your own record label, Onyx Mu-

sic, as a means to control your music.

RP: I never understood why a record had to be

released at a certain time of year or why did it only

stay available before it went out of print for a lesser

and lesser amount of time. I was in Malta, and

Gary Bartz was also there at the festival. We were

hanging out at the pool and me and Orrin [Evans]

and a couple other people were complaining about

the recording industry, and Gary Bartz shut us all

down by saying, “Y’all need to shut up because

y’all ain’t in the recording industry. Y’all not in the

record making business.” ‘What do you mean? I

got recordings,’ I said. “No, no,” he said, “You

employees of people in the record making business.

You don’t own nothing.” And we all got quiet.

[Laughs] And I’m telling you, that thing stuck with

me like a splinter in my mind. The more that tech-

nology evolved, which brought down the cost of

making a record, I began to see my opportunity.

When I signed my first serious cymbal endorse-

ment deal, I took the royalties and bankrolled my

record label, and I’ve been doing it like that ever

since. I’ve been at Berklee for almost 17 years, so

I’m at a kind of professional freedom because I’m

not playing my gigs to pay my bills. That gives me

artistic and professional freedom. I don’t live

grand, but I’m comfortable.

JI: It’s no secret that you battled substance abuse

earlier in your career. Even while under contract

with Blue Note, you were essentially a homeless

crack addict. Thankfully, you’ve been clean since

1996. Would you talk about that part of your histo-

ry and how bad it got?

RP: It got so bad that I spent the summer of my

last year using, sleeping in someone’s Lazy Boy

recliner in their living room. It got so bad that I was

158 pounds in the frame that I am now. It got so

bad that there was a time where my mother would

stand outside of the bathroom when I was in her

home, just to make sure I wasn’t doing anything in

there. And most of all, it got so bad that I couldn’t

stop and stay stopped, well after I knew I needed

to. And that’s when things began to feel hopeless.

I’m really grateful to my dear friends who circled

the wagons and offered me a life preserver back

then, and most of them are still my friends now.

My life today represents a win against addiction

and stands up as a beacon for those who might be

in the pit, trying to claw they’re way out. I try to

support those people find a path to recovery. That

may be one of the most important things I do with

my life, beyond playing music.

JI: Art Blakey was known to also use drugs. Re-

spectfully asking, with the understanding that he

was so close to you, was that part of the problem?

RP: Art Blakey’s drug use had nothing to do with

mine. Yeah, we’d knock back a few drinks and

pass around a few joints, but that was all I ever got

into with Art Blakey. That’s not all I’ve ever seen,

but that’s all I’m gonna talk about. I’m not blaming

it on anybody else. I like getting high because I like

getting high, but I had to recognize that getting

high didn’t like me. Look, I’m living in a medical

marijuana state. I’ve got a plate and 8 screws in my

right ankle, spinal fusion at L5-S1, a replaced right

hip, and I’m fighting cancer. Do you know how

much medical marijuana I’m entitled to? But I dare

not lift the lid because I have recognized and ac-

cepted the fact that my cutoff switch is broken.

That’s what makes me an addict. My success, a day

at a time, comes through the consistent application

of spiritual principles that I learned. I’m a hope-to-

die dope fiend but I didn’t know how sick I was

until I put the dope down and had to deal with the

fiend. A lot of getting better is about putting inside

the box that you’ve been stuffing drugs into,

you’ve got to find something else to go inside that

box, and the answer is spiritual in nature. Again,

not necessarily religious, but spiritual in nature.

That’s what’s been working for me come April 24,

for 23 years. I keep a running calendar, so I know

how many days, because I never want it to be too

far away from me, how long I’ve been clean.

JI: Unfortunately, you’ve also dealt with numerous

significant health issues during the latter part of

your career. You’ve mentioned the four surgeries,

you also coded during the second surgery, you’re

undergoing chemotherapy for recurring colon can-

cer, battled Bell’s palsy, and substantial orthopedic

surgeries, including spinal fusion. Would you talk

about dealing with this multitude of problems and

getting on with your life?

RP: These challenges are my life, they are part of


“I was hearing – ‘You guys should just be grateful for

the opportunity.’ Well, opportunities are great, but you can’t pay no bills with them. I was starting to stand on principle on some business issues, and

when you stand for something, you sometimes ex-pose yourself to the slings and arrows. So, when it was time for me to move on, I did so seamlessly be-cause at that point, I was working with Stanley Tur-

rentine, David Murray, Henry Threadgill …”

Ralph Peterson


my life. They’re not problems, unless I don’t deal

with them, or unless I allow them to define my life

itself. That’s why I’m putting out two records a

year and still training martial arts, working towards

my fifth-degree black belt. I get up at 4:35 in the

morning, three days a week, go to the Y. I just had

chemo two days ago and swam a mile at the gym

before chemo. I can swim a mile in 45 minutes. I

focus on staying healthy and being positive. In

addition, my mother passed in October and I went

through a divorce in August, but none of these

things define who I am. I simply don’t allow it.

Those are circumstances, the next dragon to slay in

life, and you keep having these challenges until

your life is over. What matters is not that you had

challenges, but how you met them. My practice of

Buddhism keeps me centered. My life is better than

its ever been, not in spite of what I’ve gone

through, maybe even because of what I’ve gone

through, because each thing has caused me to be a

better person in order to keep living.

JI: Sean Jones, your former student, helped build

your trumpet embouchure back up after the Bell’s

palsy. Of course, you learn from your students, but

how was it to become the student of your former

student?

RP: I got over that a long time ago. If I named all

of the drummers that I’ve learned from… There is

a custom in martial arts where eventually the stu-

dent is expected to eclipse the teacher in certain

things because the student’s body is younger. It

wasn’t just Sean, I gotta give credit and love to my

“shero,” Ingrid Jensen, and Brian Lynch. A lot of

people were very encouraging. I’m still battling

back from the Bell’s and the dental issues.

JI: You’ve taught many of the finest drummers on

today’s jazz scene, but you realized early on when

you got to Berklee that even the best drummers

didn’t know tunes, so you created a jazz repertoire

development class that taught 50 songs in 15

weeks. Would you talk about that unique course

and how you determined the 50 tunes?

RP: The creation of the course grew out of my

experience at Rutgers, studying with Ted Dunbar

and his jazz improv class, which had a 38-tune

requirement. However, with all due respect, Ted

didn’t agree that drummers could play the melo-

dies. He believed that drummers had to play the

melodies on piano, and then he found out that I

play trumpet. So, now I’m trying to learn “Donna

Lee,” “Quicksilver,” and “Little Willie Leaps,” all

these hard-ass bebop tunes on the trumpet, and I

knew I could execute these melodies, with phras-

ing, on the drum set, and because I can, I’m a little

different from all of the drummers who don’t play

trumpet. That experience carried me to Berklee and

meeting a group of talented young drummers who

didn’t know “Stablemates,” or “Cheesecake.” They

didn’t know basic construct melodies. If you learn

these tunes, and the music on the record that these

tunes come from, you will get an education in the

vocabulary of the language of jazz and how to use

it. There was no class like that at Berklee and now I

teach two sections of it. The principle of why up

the tune count from 35 to 50? Because in 15 weeks,

it gives you the ability to learn music, which is a

useful skillset when somebody calls you for a rec-

ord date and sends you a Dropbox file with 9 tunes

in it, which you gotta play for a gig in two weeks

and you’re not gonna have any rehearsal for them

except for the rehearsal check. Your ability to do

that can’t be based on talent. You gotta bring some

skills for a circumstance like that, and it ain’t just

reading because the chart ain’t gonna tell you how

to make it feel.

JI: Do you recall the best question a student has

ever asked you?

RP: No, but I can tell you the best answer a stu-

dent’s ever given me. You ready – “I don’t know.”

That’s the best answer a student can give you be-

cause then they’re teachable. Part of the problem

with students is that they walk around trying to act

like they know what they don’t know, and the reali-

ty is they don’t even know what they don’t know.

So, when they admit it to you, you have a real op-

portunity to put something meaningful in the glass

because it’s hard to fill a glass that’s already full.

The problem is that the students of today are more

collectors of jazz than they are students of jazz.

They carry all the tunes around in their cell phones,

and so much music passes their ears, but they don’t

know the music on an intimate level. You can col-

lect great Picasso paintings, but that doesn’t mean

you know shit about painting. That makes you a

collector of paintings. In order to be a student of

music, you gotta go inside and understand the pro-

cess, and that involves becoming uncomfortable

and facing what you don’t do well.

JI: Who have you played with that we would be

most surprised to hear about?

RP: Regina Belle, the R&B and gospel vocalist,

who went to college with me and Terence at Rut-

gers. Another vocalist, who you may not think of

as a vocalist, Phylicia Rashad. Yeah, I did some

gigs in New York with Clair Huxtable. I also did a

track with The Roots back in the mid-‘90s with

Jamaaladeen Tacuma before The Roots had really

taken off. I’m hoping that that experience will get

me on the Jimmy Fallon show. Jimmy came down

to the gig in New York last summer and heard

Aggregate Prime.

JI: What inspired you to study Buddhism?

RP: The end of my first marriage. [Laughs] Being

on the road with Buster Williams and being at a

transition point in my life where I had to deal with

some decisions and stand up and deal. Buster intro-

duced me to Nam Myoho Renge Kyo in Zürich,

Switzerland and I’ve been chanting ever since.

JI: Would you talk about your involvement in

taekwondo, and the relationship between martial

arts and your music?

RP: As I became a black-belt, the thing that

dawned on me is that martial art is itself, an art.

Which means there’s subjectivity to the way it’s

practiced. Just like you have Chinese style, Japa-

nese style, Korean style, Brazilian style martial

arts, you have New Orleans, Chicago, Philadelphia,

New Jersey approaches to jazz. All of them swing

and move differently, and like each to the other, it

depends on the practitioner. There’s issues of bal-

ance, patience and pace, and there are spiritual

principles in play with the development of your

body as a martial artist that are very much in line

with the same principles that help you become a

great musician. At the core of each is the necessity

to show up and put in the work. At the same time,

it’s a complete and total distraction from music that

helps me cleanse my brain. It also keeps me in

shape. Playing drums is a physical thing, and the

way I’ve made my reputation playing drums, I

can’t just all of a sudden bust into tiki-boom, tiki-

boom style. They’d be like – “He’s done. That ain’t

Ralph Peterson no more!” I’ve made my own bed

so I’ve got to stay in shape so I can sleep in it.

[Laughs]

JI: Were you an athlete in school?

RP: Yeah, I ran track, intermediate hurdles, and

played basketball. I was a good athlete.

JI: The word on the street is that you’re also a

great salsa dancer.

RP: [Laughs] Oh, my God! You must have been

talking to the Curtis brothers or something. Wher-

e’d you get that one? I know I like to try. Dancing

is like golf, it’s one of the things you can have a lot

of fun doing, whether you do it well or not. I think

that dancing is an integral part of playing this mu-

sic. During listening session with students, I will

often compel the students to get up and start danc-

ing to something, usually starting with James

Brown, and then seeing if they can convert that

same movement to dancing with Count Basie. If

you can’t respond to music physically, inside your

body and move to it, how the hell you gonna play

it?

JI: What are your other interests outside of music

including guilty pleasures?

RP: I’d like to play more golf. When I look at my

life, there ain’t a lot of space for any more work or

pleasure. I feel that I’ve got a balance of stuff that

is a comfortably full plate, and I dig that. I don’t

feel any gaps. I’m connected spiritually, I’m con-

nected to my recovery. I have a sponsor and I spon-

sor men in recovery. I practice my Buddhism in a

way that works for me, and I share all of these

aspects with my students who are extensions of me

being a parent. My fraternity, Phi Beta Sigma, is

also important to me.

JI: The final questions have been given to me by

other musicians to ask you:

Antonio Sanchez (drums) asked: “I’d like to know

what drives you? I’m always interested to hear

what drives people. Is it the music or something

more personal? Now that you’ve been having these

health battles, that’s not something everyone expe-

riences. How have you been able to beat the odds,

because I think of myself, if I was in a situation

like that, how would I react? I have no idea. It

seems super scary to deal with reality like that, and


Ralph Peterson


it’s inspiring to see people dealing with what they

have to do.”

RP: The simple answer is I don’t have a choice.

Well, I do have some choices - I could either fold,

and let the cancer cells in my body define the rest

of my life, or I can live as much of my life that I’m

physically capable of at the highest level of intensi-

ty that I can live it at, for as long as I can. And I’m

choosing the latter. Having lost both parents, and

having an experience on the operating table that

people call “coding,” I don’t have the same fear

that I used to have. Everybody wants to go to heav-

en, but nobody wants to die. I’m not afraid of dying

anymore, and when you’re not afraid to die, you’re

also not afraid to live. By the way, Antonio was the

second drummer I ever taught at Berklee. That was

in 1993 and I was still living in Philly and I would

come up to Berklee because Ron Savage, the now

dean of the Professional Performance Division,

was then the acting chair of the Percussion Depart-

ment and he asked me up.

Terri Lyne Carrington (drums) asked: “How do

you view your growth over the last fifteen years as

a player and as a human being, and how do they

intertwine?”

RP: The last seventeen years at Berklee have given

me the opportunity to get to a place professionally

where I have artistic freedom based on professional

stability. Berklee helped save my life. I would not

be alive were it not for the college’s support and

my health care. Terri Lynne came to the school

shortly after I got there, and we’ve worked together

and supported each other’s projects. She’s been a

shining example of excellence and I’ve tried to do

the same as an educator from the standpoint of

teaching this music. For me, it’s a centurion’s post

– I’m guarding the gates of what I love. As an art-

ist, these last fifteen years have been this emer-

gence into a fully-realized, empowered artist. I

really feel a sense of freedom. I don’t have to wor-

ry about saying shit that’s gonna piss the record

label off, that they might drop me from the label. If

I want to take a stance politically, like I have been

on certain records, I can do so as an artist and stand

up, ready to accept whatever consequence there

might be, because there always is.

Warren Smith (drums) said: “I remember you as a

very talented young student when I first met you.

What has inspired you to write music? I know in

my case, it was frustration with the way most com-

posers were composing, if at all, for drums and

percussion.”

RP: I don’t write, not that I can’t, but I haven’t

written any percussion pieces yet. But I compose

because I hear and feel melody in my spirit. It’s

sound that’s in me that takes form and shape, that I

must address. I have to get it out of me and turn it

into a tune because otherwise it’ll drive me nuts.

[Laughs] I won’t be able to stop hearing it. Warren

comes from such a rich tradition of the Max Roach

line of drummers and composers, and the M’Boom

thing. He’s also a mallet-instrument player, which I

am not. I write music because I hear music. Other

people’s music inspires me. I’ve learned that good

writers borrow, and great writers steal, and genius

writers steal and hide it right in front of you. So,

you can steal somebody’s stuff, write a new tune,

play it back for them, and they don’t even know

that you stole it from them. You know what’s real-

ly funny? When Sean [Jones] was working on his

masters, composition was one of the things we

focused on, and we would have this kind of conver-

sation all the time, and now he does the shit to me.

I can hear it in his music, him and Orrin Evans.

JI: They’re taking your stuff?

RP: Taking the stuff that I use. I don’t know if it’s

mine, but I used it before them. I’m not claiming

any originality. I learned from Bill Fielder there’s

nothing new under the sun until you discover it,

and then it’s new.

Johnathan Blake (drums) asked: “What did you

do to work on your sight-reading?”

RP: The only thing that helps reading, is reading.

If you’re working on your reading, it doesn’t mat-

ter the accuracy. In The Real Books or Snare Drum

Book by [Anthony] Cirone, just turn the page, you

read until you make a mistake. You turn the page.

You read, read, read and as soon as you make a

mistake, turn the page, so that you don’t memorize

the page, and then you come back to it, slow it

down, and try to read it. I’m a musician who’s been

blessed with the ability to hear, and the ability to

hear works against the skill set of reading because

if you let me hear some shit twice, I ain’t got to

read it. I had to learn that about my gift so that I

could develop my skill set, and a lot of musicians

who are naturally talented, struggle with that.

Orrin Evans (piano) asked: “I’d like to hear about

your time living in Philadelphia and leading your

pocket trumpet band.”

RP: Hah! Well, Orrin was in it. I was living in

Philly from ’91 – ’94 because my dear friend, who

threw me the life preserver and pulled me up, lived

there. He gave me the opportunity to recalibrate,

start to get my life back on track. He put me up in

an apartment across the hall from him and got me

to start training Taekwondo. I had done martial arts

also in high school. My mind cleared and musical

ideas came. I was playing pocket trumpet then but

it’s a little too small for me now when I pick it up.

Maybe I’m too fat to play it? [Laughs] I developed

a book during that time which I am still developing

and playing. After relapsing in Philly, I moved to

D.C. for two years.

Ari Hoenig (drums) asked: “Your playing and

thinking seems to be so rooted in tradition, yet so

progressive, original, and creative at the same time.

Is this a conscious choice you made for your mu-

sic? Also, what inspired the progressive side of

things?”

RP: I believe in the principle of you can only go as

far forward as you’ve been backwards because you

don’t know if you’re playing something new if you

haven’t checked out what’s old. A lot of the young

cats out now who are devoid of swing think they’re

playing something new, but what they’re playing is

the old shit that we grew up on before we discov-

ered swing. [Laughs] The other piece of it, and Ari

has it in his playing, I’m really proud of my rela-

tionship with him and Orrin, and all of these guys,

but there’s a degree of courage required in recog-

nizing what your guns are and sticking to them.

You have to find out what you are connected to,

trust it, develop it, and then after you do that, are

you going to have enough courage to stick with it

in the face of people doing something different and

being more popular. That’s the question. If your

life as a musician is not solely balanced on low

paying gigs, where you are at the mercy of the

demands of living, you’re not free to make a lot of

artistic decisions based on your convictions as an

artist. But as you grow and broaden your base,

maybe with some private students, that will free

you to play the music you want. Today, I feel I

must honor the particular thing I was given the gift

to do. If I’m just doing anything with the instru-

ment to make money, I feel like I’m “ho-

ing.” [Laughs] I feel like a “ho.” I definitely want

to get paid, but I want to get paid for doing what I

do well, and it’s built on the shoulders of these

giants, like Art Blakey.


“you can only go as far forward as you’ve been backwards because you don’t know

if you’re playing something new if you haven’t checked out what’s old. A lot of the

young cats ... who are devoid of swing think they’re playing something new, but

what they’re playing is the old shit that we grew up on before we discovered swing.”

Ralph Peterson


“”The greatest discovery of any generation is that human beings

can alter their lives by altering the attitudes of their minds.”

- Albert Schweitzer

Steve Wilson (alto sax) said: “You often talk about

the whole history of the music and the drummers,

particularly. We used to sit down and talk about

Baby Dodds, and you could play something verba-

tim from Philly Joe or Cozy Cole, or whoever.

You’ve got something from everybody’s language

– everyone from Baby Dodds up to Milford

Graves, and beyond. You’ve got the whole history

in your playing. I know you like to talk about your

mentors -what did you get from Michael Carvin?”

RP: Wow! Steve’s observation is actually the an-

swer to Ari’s question. Man, what didn’t I get from

Carvin? Like I said before, the first thing I got from

Carvin, that I needed the most, was to be told no. I

had to learn that I couldn’t get everything that I

wanted just because my parents were paying tuition

to Rutgers. The tail can’t wag the dog. If students

knew what they needed, they wouldn’t come to

college, they’d just go get it. I have a limited toler-

ance for students telling me what they need, and

Michael Carvin helped me with that. He helped me

to commit myself to understanding Max Roach,

Elvin Jones, Art Blakey, and all the way back to

Baby Dodds. Baby Dodds and Zutty Singleton are

two names that Michael Carvin taught me, and he

taught me that every time he said the name of a

drummer that I didn’t know, my responsibility was

to go learn something about them, so the next time

their name came up in conversation, I could partici-

pate instead of looking stupid. Sometimes today,

students don’t want to be challenged to that level

because they shudder at the feeling of being ex-

posed, but the exposure is when you know how

much space you’ve got to grow. I got a lot from

Carvin. He’s a martial artist, and his great relation-

ship with his daughter continues to inspire me in

my relationship with my amazing daughter Sonora,

who’s the principle flutist in the Milwaukee Sym-

phony Orchestra. Michael Carvin taught me that

you can’t be afraid in this music to be who you see

yourself as, and to be able to alter course when you

see what you’re doing isn’t working. We still have

long conversations.

JI: What is your connection to someone like Mil-

ford Graves?

RP: David Murray, it was through David Murray,

Craig Harris and Henry Threadgill that I took an

earnest study in the music that’s called avant-garde

and began to understand it for the kind of sound

theater that it is. I owe a lot to those guys. Back to

Ari’s question, the fact that my stuff is rooted in

tradition but has this kind of open-ended, progres-

sive slant on it comes from the period I spent when

I was working with Stanley Turrentine and David

Murray at the same time. That’s about as far across

the expanse of the language of tenor saxophone as

one could conceive.

JI: You’ve made it a point to study all the master

drummers that have come before you. That’s a lot

of different styles and concepts. If you can play

like all of them, how do you take all that infor-

mation and make Ralph Peterson? What is your

statement on the instrument?

RP: The one thing I learned about taking on the

task of emulating Art Blakey is that it’s like walk-

ing towards a mirage. No matter how close you

think you are, you’re never gonna get there, but

that doesn’t mean you don’t move forwards to-

wards it. The point is the movement, the journey,

you’ve got to keep moving because it’s the move-

ment that’s gonna make you grow. It’s not about

ever getting there, and that’s another thing I

learned from Carvin. No matter how close I get,

I’m still gonna be in it. Some people may hear me

and hear Elvin or Art or catch me on a good night

and hear Philly, or if I’m playing with the right

band, they’ll hear Baby Dodds and Papa Jo. I just

did a gig in Qatar, a Frank Sinatra review, I had so

much fun playing in my Sonny Payne hat musical-

ly. It was a gas, but I was still me at the same time.

They’re all a part of me because I put in the work,

but they’re filtered through the who that I am and

that makes it different from the next drummer over

to me. If you look at all the drummers who have

studied with me and they don’t sound alike or like

me – Ari Hoenig, Justin Faulkner, E.J. Strickland,

Johnathan Blake, Dana Hall, Joe Dyson, Rodney

Green, Tyshawn Sorey, Vince Ector, Antonio

Sanchez, Mark Whitfield Jr, Obed Calvaire, Chris

Beck, Jonathan Barber, etc. These cats don’t play

the same way and that bodes well for what I was

trying to get them to do, which is put in the work

but always know where they came from and look at

where they’ve all gone.

Artists ‘memories of Ralph Peterson: Antonio Sanchez recalls his first meeting with

Peterson: “My interaction with Ralph was fairly

short. I first met him through a friend around ‘93

while I was at Berklee. I was fresh from Mexico

and I was really trying to get into jazz. I played a

little bit of jazz in Mexico but not really straight-

ahead. I wasn’t aware of the vocabulary that you

need to command in order to sound authentic. My

friend asked me if I would be into taking a lesson

with Ralph because Ralph was going to be in town

and my friend was organizing a full afternoon of

lessons for Ralph. I had seen Ralph play with Mi-

chael Brecker, so I said sure. At the lesson there

was a drum set and he had a trumpet with him, and

I didn’t know he played trumpet. He had me sit at

the drums and said, “Let’s just play it loose,” and I

started playing, and he started blowing on the trum-

pet like he was a professional trumpet player. It

was incredible to me. He would play a phrase and I

was a little in awe of being there with Ralph, and in

being a little uninformed of how jazz worked. I

remember he played a phrase and I just looked at

him while playing, but I wasn’t really answering

anything that he was playing, and he immediately

stopped me and lectured me about how it’s all in-

teractive, how it’s supposed to be a conversation

and counterpoint. It was really cool to hear that

from a drummer while he played another instru-

ment really well. That made a big impression on

me.”

Steve Wilson shares a memory about Peterson:

“Ralph was one of the reasons I moved to New

York. He was in the group Out of the Blue, along

with Kenny Garrett, and when Kenny left the band

to join Miles, Kenny called me to fill in for him for

some of the Out of the Blue dates. So, I made some

dates with the band, and Ralph really dug my play-

ing, and said, “We’d love to have you in the band.”

I moved to New York in ’87 as a result and worked

with the band and also with Ralph’s first quintet.

From the first time that I played with Ralph, it was

really a revelation because Ralph was the first

drummer I played with that could hear all of the

music, all of the time. I had played with some great

drummers before that, but Ralph could hear every-

thing. As a matter of fact, he heard my phrasing

and he knew what I was going to play before I

played it! I was like, ‘What the hell is that?’ It was

amazing, and then I discovered what a great musi-

cian he is as a pianist, trumpeter, bassist, and com-

poser. I remember we were hanging out at his crib

one time, listening to the record The Real McCoy,

and he knew that record like a score. He knew

everything that Joe Henderson played, everything

that McCoy played, every bassline that Ron played.

He knew solos and everything. I said, ‘Now I get it,

now I understand.’ Being around him really taught

me how to hear, because at that time, I was still just

trying to develop as a soloist, trying to figure out

harmony, but in terms of playing music and hear-

ing it, then I understood how he played because

this determined how he could orchestrate. I think

still a lot of people don’t understand about the bril-

liance of Ralph. He hears everything, all of the

time, so everything he plays has context. So, when

he plays something that seems out of time and free,

there’s always a pulse in time and form of what

he’s doing. When I started playing his composi-

tions in his band, where he would have these odd

phrases, it made me really think about the music

differently and it opened up some new doors. That

first band with Geri Allen, Phil Bower and Terence

[Blanchard], that was a dynamite band, it was kill-

in’. [Laughs] Playing with Ralph’s band was a

major step for me growth wise, as musician playing

with Ralph, and being around him. He’s one of the

smartest people I’ve ever known. He’s a few years

younger than me but even then, at 25-years-old,

he’s had wisdom beyond his years. He’s a heavy

cat and I always talk to my students about him

because of what I got from him, and what I contin-

ue to get from him. He continues to influence a lot

of what I do musically.


Ralph Peterson


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Interview & Photos by Eric Nemeyer

(Continued from the previous

issue of Jazz Inside)

JI: Could you talk about your association with

Charlie Haden, who is himself a sensitive and soft-

spoken individual? How did his music gel with

what you do?

EW: Well, I think it goes back to the melody

again. He’s very in tune to a melodic concept and I

think he draw other people who have the same

values. I met Charlie in Los Angeles. I was playing

an orchestral piece, a great French composer,

Michel Colombier, who wrote a piece for saxo-

phone and orchestra. He wrote it for me; he’s a

very good friend. This piece was called “Night

Bird.” We were performing it at the Chanel Mobile

Art Pavilion in Los Angeles and Charlie was back-

stage. When I came off the stage, he came up to me

and introduced himself. Of course I knew who he

was. He said, “Maybe we should get together and

play some music,” and I said, “Great. Let’s do it.”

That’s how it started. Then he put together a couple

of editions of the Liberation Orchestra, and I

played with those out in California. Then we did

two or three tours with Pat Metheny, though I don’t

think that any of those were recorded. After that we

started doing our Quartet West, playing in different

contexts together. It’s like family. You know how

you meet somebody sometimes and you feel like

you’ve always known them. Well, it was like that

with Charlie.

JI: How did the group begin evolving?

EW: Well, we never had a rehearsal. We’d bring in

tunes, Charlie would bring in tunes, we would try

it, and if it works and the energy’s coming across

we’d keep it. It’s very organic.

JI: Pat Metheny

has a different con-

cept than Quartet

West, his own style

and approach.

When you were

touring with him,

what kind of adjust-

ments did you

make in your per-

spective with a

group like his?

EW: Pat, Charlie, and I, the other people that we

surround ourselves with all have the same values.

We listen to the same kind of things, we have the

same world view, and we have the same feeling

about music. When we play all, of that comes out

and it works because we have all of these things in

common before we even go in. That’s the thing –

when you enjoy other people’s company. Off the

bandstand you have great conversations and you

have some hilarious dinners, you have good times,

you’re living on the road and all those crazy things

that happen on the road. There’s always a bit of

humor that comes through that. If somebody’s

freaking out, somebody’s saying, “Hey, you might

be taking this thing a little too seriously.” And then

everybody helps everybody get back on the track.

By the time you get to the bandstand, you bring all

of those experiences with you. You bring all of

those experiences to the music because that’s what

the music is. The music is a compilation of your

experiences, of your life. It’s your life in sound. So

it was always very, very easy, because Pat is an

incredibly melodic player.

JI: In the breadth and scope of your experiences –

in the studio, and as you mentioned, you really got

to learn the music business by observing what was

going on – can you talk about your understanding

of human nature that you’ve developed through

some of those different experiences?

EW: I believe that the essence of the artist is to

realize and never forget that there’s no music busi-

ness without the music. It’s music business. If

there’s no music, there’s no business. Because of

that, because we are the creators, the artists, we

have the ability to structure the business. Because

we are artists and because some of us don’t believe

the power that we have, a lot of us have given that

power away. That is why we have what we have

now. That’s called the music business. But, the

essence is still: there’s no music business without

the music. Everything comes from the energy of

the music. The people who recognize that have

control of their lives. The artists that recognize that

have control of their lives. The artists that don’t

recognize that are on the merry-go-round. They’re

doing what the guys that don’t do music tell them

what they should do. It has outlived its usefulness

and that is why the music business is falling apart.

The music business has allowed the values to fall

apart, so the business is falling apart. It has no sub-

stance, so it can’t stand, so it’s not. All you have to

do is look around. And the people that are creative

and believe in what they’re doing, they start their

own record companies and they do their music.

They sell their music on the web sites and on the

gigs, and you don’t need them. I don’t need some-

body telling me that I can only play a tune for three

-and-a-half minutes and I’ve got to use a drum

machine, and a whole bunch of other stuff that I

don’t intend to use. Or, “Hey, you played with

Marvin Gaye. Let’s do a tribute to Marvin Gaye!”

Or, “Hey, you played with the Temptations. Let’s

do a tribute to the Temptations!” Why? The thing

is, if you don’t do it, they’ll find a 19 year old kid

that wants to be in the music business more than

anything else and they’ll get them to do it. And

that’s what you’ve got – you’ve got smooth jazz.

That’s why you’ve got smooth jazz, because

there’s a whole bunch of young kids who’ll do

anything to be in the music business and hear their

record on the radio. So that’s what they do – they

do anything. And that’s what’s on the radio – any-

thing. And that’s fine, because the taxi drivers like

it, and the secretaries like it, and the people that are

having dinner like it, so it has a purpose. That’s

fine too. You know, I’ve got no problem with any

of it. The only thing is, it’s not my personal choice

to do these things. And then if it’s posed to me that

I have to do these things in order to survive or

whatever, that’s just not true. The difference be-

tween me and a whole lot of other people is I know

it’s not true, and I can say to them, “No, that’s not

true.” It’s about what we feel. It’s about how we

think. We are the creators of our lives. If there’s

something going on that you don’t agree with, then

you don’t have to do it.

JI: There is a quote by Bertrand Russell, “The

trouble with this world is that the foolish are cock-

sure and the intelligent are all full of doubt.”

EW: There’s also a saying that, “Ignorance of the

law, is the law.” We’re all a part of this source

energy. Whether you recognize it or not, you’re

still a part of the source energy. When you realize

that you’re a part of the source energy and you

make that recognition and you submit yourself to

that, then you realize that you’re not a victim of the

universe; that you have choices; that everything

you do is a choice and your life is a compilation of

your choices over the years. If there’s stuff going

on in your life that you don’t like, then you have to

make difference choices, and then you’ll change.

We are tools of the energy. It comes through us.

Therefore our only responsibility is to be the sharp-

est tool that we can be we can have a minimum of

resistance for the energy to come through. That’s

why as musicians, we practice. When you’re free

and you’re fluid on your instrument and you get up

on the stage, you’re an open channel for the energy


INTERVIEWINTERVIEW

Ernie Watts Always on the journey (Part 3 of 3)

“If somebody’s freaking out, somebody’s say-ing, ‘Hey, you might be taking this thing a lit-tle too seriously.’ And then everybody helps everybody get back on the track ... You bring all of those experiences to the music because that’s what the music is. The music is a com-pilation of your experiences, of you’re life.”



to flow through you with the least amount of re-

sistance. But the music belongs to everyone. No-

body owns the music. The music comes from the

spirit, through us, and out. Music is God singing

through us. That’s what we do – we allow God to

play this incredible beauty to the Earth through us.

And when you choose to do that, you also recog-

nize a whole bunch of stuff. You recognize that

music is God singing through us. You recognize

that you have chosen to be a channel for this. You

recognize that it’s going through you because you

sure feel it. When I play, it’s like listening to some-

body play. You also realize that to make this recog-

nition is to create an environment where these

things can come clean. You also recognize that

you’ll always be taken care, because God is not

going to give you a gift and God is not going to

flow through you and then run you into a wall …

or make you poor, or sad, or mentally ill. If you

make the recognition to the Holy Spirit, everything

is added onto you. You just have to stay on the

track. All you have to do is stay on the track and

you’ll survive. You know? We’re always making

choices and we’re always getting information. The

choices that we’re making all the time is to either

go with the information or say, “Well, you know,

I’ve got a better idea.” That’s your first mistake

[laughs].

JI: When things aren’t working out – you’re not

being creative or unable to have good relationships

– it’s a function of the connection that you have to

the spirits, or energy, or God, being corroded. You

need to get yourself back on track, whatever that is

for different people.

EW: From all of the studies that everybody’s made

on being in touch with the Holy Spirit, it all seems

to kind of boil down to this: at some point during

the day, you have to have a quiet time. That’s when

you get your information. Some people have it in

the morning. Some people have it in the middle of

the afternoon. Some people meditate maybe two or

three times a day. Regardless, it’s very important to

have a quiet time to focus so that energy comes

through, so that you get yourself back in line.

That’s very important.

JI: There are a lot of temptations that occur when

you begin getting involved in music and creative

endeavors. All of us, there are people tempting you

with various and sundry experiences, substances,

and all sorts of other things. It can be very difficult

for people who are starting out to not think that

that’s cool. If you’re in jazz, certainly you’ve read

about people like Charlie Parker and other people

succumbed to those temptations. Of course in

Charlie Parker’s case, he was able to create incredi-

ble music despite his specific challenges that would

have doomed other people. How do you suggest or

encourage people to maintain their vigilance in the

face of those kinds of temptations, in order to stay

on the path of mastery?

EW: Kenny Werner wrote a very good book for

that called Effortless Mastery – a wonderful little

book. It’s a very interesting question. When you’re

a kid learning how to play, you’re coming out of a

competitive background. Even if in the back of

your mind you know that music is more than that,

you still want to be the best; you still want to be the

first seed in All-State. All of that stuff. That’s the

way our system is set up. We always want to be the

best—that’s why we practice. After we practice for

a while, then we look around and think about what

we’re doing. You realize that it’s impossible to be

the best at anything because how can you be the

best when everybody’s different? There are no

criteria. The only best that you can be is to be the

best you that you can be. When you make that

recognition, then that begins to put you on the

track. Until you get on the track, you do have a lot

of experiences. It’s a very tricky thing. Our life is

our experiences. If you’re going to have a full life,

you have to have a lot of experiences. Some of the

experiences are positive. Some of the experiences

are negative. Some of the experiences are positive

in the beginning and then they turn negative. I

think while you’re having experiences, you get

information and you know when one experience is

done and it’s time to turn the page. If you turn the

page, you go on. If you don’t turn the page, you get

stuck. It manifests with musicians in a lot of differ-

ent ways. Sometimes, if you’re a musician and

you’re doing a particular thing or a particular job

and it’s great for a while but then ends up wearing

out and you know it’s time to turn the page but you

don’t, it creates an emotional problem. Or it creates

an alcohol problem, or a drug problem, or whatev-

er, because you’re unhappy. These things – these

diversions – come because of some unhappiness or

something that’s out of balance in your heart. You

don’t know how to deal with it so you have a drink,

or you smoke a joint or something like that. But the

thing is, even if you get diverted in that way, you

also come to a point with that stuff when you know

it’s time to turn the page. You wake up in a hospi-

tal or you wake up in a gutter somewhere. Then

you say, “Uh, you know, I don’t think I should do

this anymore.” [laughs] So there are all of these

things. But you had the experience. You come out

of it. You get your life together. In your music is

reflected a part of that experience. Some of that

depth that’s in your music may come from prob-

lems that you had dealing with stuff. It’s very diffi-

cult to go through this life and not have had some

travails. I don’t think they’re bad. I think they’re a

part of our growth cycle. As long as you grow from

them and as long as you go on, you get stronger. So

it’s hard to tell a kid that’s learning how to play

music what he should do, what he shouldn’t do,

where he should go, what he should eat or not eat –

don’t eat French Fries because it’s all cholesterol

and all that kind of stuff – when he’s seventeen or

eighteen years old. The thing that you have to tell

people is that whatever you’re doing, when it stops

feeling right, immediately turn the page. If it’s not

working for you, turn the page – go on. That’s the

hardest thing to do sometimes because we are crea-

tures of habit. You’ve seen people in situations all

the time and you get that thing of like, some people

believe that a bad deal is better than no deal at all.

But they don’t know that there’s a better deal wait-

ing if they would just change the page. A lot of fear

– I dealt with a lot of fear when I stopped doing

studio work. I was making a whole bunch of mon-

ey doing studio work but I wasn’t happy. I wanted

to play jazz. There’s all of the history, the mytholo-

gy, and all of the horrible information about what

happens to jazz players. Have you ever seen a posi-

tive jazz movie? Have you ever seen a jazz movie

where, at the end of the movie, the guy is doing

great and everything is cool and people love him

and he’s got a house and a family, and he’s just

fine and he does a concert tour and he goes home?

No! It’s always some guy dead in the gutter. Right?

And that’s dramatic – that’s a good story. Ever

seen a jazz story about somebody that came out on

top? [laughs] But you know what? Somebody’s

mother is watching those movies. And her kid is

seven or eight years old and when he gets to be

fourteen years old, he wants to play jazz. His moth-

er remembers these movies, and she says, “No.

You’ll kill yourself. You’ll die out there. You’re

my kid. I love you. I can’t send you out there to do

that! Look what happened to Dexter Gordon. Look

at what happened in that Round Midnight movie.

Look at what happened in any of those movies.”

You challenge fate. So, I went through all my fear

stuff when I stopped doing studio work in order to

really focus on my jazz playing. But I believe two

things. I’m very stubborn and I got to the point

where I really had to play. I felt like I would be

better if I was broke playing than had a whole

bunch of money and was unhappy. The other thing

that I really believe more than anything is that uni-

versal energy is directing you.


Ernie Watts

“When you realize that you’re a part of the source energy and you make that

recognition and you submit yourself to that, then you realize that you’re not a victim of the universe; that you have choices; that everything you do is a

choice and your life is a compilation of your choices over the years.”


Alan Broadbent & Ernie Watts


Lee Konitz & Ernie Watts

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