Episode 269: Kombucha Questions Answered: Alcohol, …fermented. She's also a popular speaker about kombucha, fermentation and bacteriosapiens. And through Kombucha Kamp's videos,

Copyright © 2019 Wellness Mama · All Rights Reserved

1

Episode269:KombuchaQuestionsAnswered:Alcohol,Candida,Pregnancy,andMoreWith

KombuchaKamp


2

Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyAlituraNaturalsskincare.Youguyslovedthefounder,Andy,whenhecameonthispodcasttotalkabouthisownskinhealingjourneyafteratragicaccidentthatcausedmassivescarringonhisface.Fromthisexperiencehedevelopedsomeofthemostpotentandeffectivenaturalskincareoptionsfromserumstomasksandtheresultsarevisibleinhisperfectlyclearskinthatisfreeofscars!Ilovethemaskanduseitacoupletimesaweek,andoftenusethegoldserumatnighttonourishmyskinwhileIsleep.Alloftheirproductshavesupercleaningredientsandtheyreallywork!Andyisabsolutelydedicatedtocreatingthehighestqualityproductspossibleanditshows.Checkthemoutatalituranaturals.com/wellnessmamaandusetheDiscountcode"wellness"toget20%off.

ThispodcastissponsoredbyThriveMarket,acompanyI’veknownandlovedsincetheverybeginning.Theirgoalistomakerealfoodaffordabletoeveryoneandtheynowhelptheirhalfamillionmembers,includingme,gettheorganicfoodswelovedeliveredtoourdoorforless!ThinkofanonlinecombinationofCostcoandwholefoodswithtonsoforganic,allergyfriendly,paleo,vegan,Ketoandotheroptions.Theannualmembershipearnsyoufreegiftsandguaranteedsavings,andsponsorsafreemembershipforalow-incomefamily.You’llget25-50%offtopbrandsandIalsoalwaysorderthenewThriveMarketbrandproductsthatprovideanevenbiggerdiscountontheir500+highqualityproducts.Checkitoutandsave25%onyourfirstorderbygoingtothrivemarket.com/wm

Katie:HelloandwelcometotheWellnessMamaPodcast.I'mKatiefromwellnessmama.comandI'mheretodaywithafriendofminewhohasbeenherebeforeandIknowyou'regoingtolovetohearfromheragain.HannahCrum,AKATheKombuchaMamma,pioneeredKombuchaKamp,whichisaneducationworkshop.Itstartedin2004outofherLosAngeleskitchen.Now,withherhusbandAlex,they'vecreatedkombuchakamp.com,spelledwithaK,thetopeducationalsitewithamissiontochangetheworldonegutatatimebyprovidingqualityinformation,qualitycultures,andqualitycustomersupportaroundallthingsfermented.She'salsoapopularspeakeraboutkombucha,fermentationandbacteriosapiens.AndthroughKombuchaKamp'svideos,blogposts,andonlinesupportcommunitiesandtheiraward-winningAmazonbestsellerTheBigBookofKombucha,theyserveasmentorsandleadingexpertsintheworldofkombuchatomillionsallovertheworld.

So,Hannah,welcomeandthanksforbeinghere.

Hannah:Thanksforhavingme,Katie,greattobeback.

Katie:Oh,it'salwaysgreattochat.AndItodaywanttogokindofdeeponseveraldifferenttopicsandtacklethemostcommonquestionsIget.BecauseIhaveabigblogpostaboutkombucha,Ihavemadeitmyselfforyears,IgotmykombuchaSCOBYsfromyouguys,andIgetseveralquestionsoverandoverandIfiguredthere'snoone,literallynoone,intheworldmorequalifiedtoanswerthesequestionsthanyou.


3

Sotostartoffwithacontroversialone,walkusthroughwhat'sthedealwithkombuchaandalcohol.BecauseIknowtherewasthedramawithLindsayLohan,there'sthe,"CanyoubuytheminthestorewithanIDorwithout?,"andtheactualrealissueofhowmuchalcoholisinkombucha.Sotakeusthroughthewholestory.

Hannah:Absolutely.Sokombuchaisafermentedfood.Thereareotherfermentedfoodswethinkof,likesauerkraut,andbeetkvass,andyogurt,andwedon'tnecessarilyassociatethosefermentedfoodswithalcoholcontent.Andthen,ofcourse,wethinkofbeerandwineandallthoseotherfun,recreational,higheralcoholcontentbeverages.Well,allfermentedfoodscreatetraceamountsofalcoholasapreservative.

Sooneofyeast'suniquecharacteristicsandcompetitivestrategiesistocreatealcohol,whichisnaturallyantimicrobial.Right?Thinkaboutwhenyougetawoundandyoumightgrabtherubbingalcoholandrubthatonyourwound,itstingsalittlebit.Butthatalcoholiskillingpotentialpathogenicorganisms,andthat'showwe,youknow,sortofcleanawoundifwe'reusingrubbingalcohol.Soalcoholhasthisnaturallyantimicrobialaspecttoit.

Sowhatthismeansisthatallfermentedfoodscreatetraceamountsofalcoholasameansofpreventingmoldsandotherpathogensfromcolonizingtheirdelicioussubstrate.Sosubstrateinthecaseofsauerkrautwouldbecabbage,ormilkinthecaseofyogurt.Inkombuchaoursubstrateissweettea.Sowe'retakingteaandsugar,we'readdingourSCOBY,that'sourbacterialcellulosepatty,alsocalledamotherorababy,andthatstandsfor"symbioticcultureofbacteriaandyeast."Andsotheyeastandbacteriaareworkingtogethertocreatethisdeliciousbeverage,andthealcoholisakeycomponenttothatbecauseit'sadefensemechanismandit'sastrategyforpreventingmoldfromgrowing.

Nowwhydoesn'tkombuchaenduplikebeerorwinewithamuchhigheralcoholcontent?Youknow,typicallywe'reseeing4%andhigherinbeer,typically4%to8%ifyou'regoingforcraftbeer.Inwineweseeupwardsofover10%alcoholbyvolume.Andthat'sbecausekombuchaisanaceticacidferment,likevinegar.Soyoumayhavenoticedsometimeswhenyoudrinkkombucha,there'salittlebitofthattangyflavortoit.What'shappeningistheethanolcreatedbythefermentationprocessisthenconvertedintothosehealthyorganicacids.Andthoseacidshelpwithdigestion,theyhelpwithmetabolism,theyhelpwithsupportingahealthyliver.

AndsoasmuchasLindsayLohan,andtherewasalsoafootballplayeracoupleyearsago,wanttoblametheirkombuchaconsumptionfortriggeringtheiralcoholbracelets,therealityisthatwhenpeopledrinkkombuchaandtheytakebreathalyzerteststhereisnoalcoholremainingintheirsystembecauseit'smetabolizedquicklybytheBvitaminsandacidspresentinthebrew.

Katie:Thatmakessense.AndIlovethatyoumentionedtheBvitaminsandtheacidsthatarepresentinkombuchaandinfermentedproductsingeneral.I'dloveitifwecouldtalkalittlebitmoreaboutthose.BecauseIknow,like,aswefindoutmoreaboutthegutandweunderstandjusthowmany...Like,there'sthishugevarietyofgutbacteriaandweobviouslyneedallthesedifferentkinds.Andmostpeopleunderstandthatprettywell,butalotofpeoplethinkofjustfermentedfoodsequalprobiotics,butthere'salotmoregoingon


4

there.Socanyouwalkusthroughwhataresomeoftheotheramazingthingshappeninginfermentedfoodslikekombuchaoranyfermentedfoods?

Hannah:Yeah,absolutely.So,youknow,toyourpoint,probiotics,whenwethinkoftheword"pro,""for,""bio,""life,"that'sexactlywhatprobioticsaredoing,theyaresupportinglife.Theyareelementsornutrientsororganismsthathelpthebodythrive.Nowwedon'thaveastandardizeddefinitionof"probiotic"intheUnitedStates,butthere'sanoldlistfromawhileagooforganismsthatareonthisshortlistofwhat'sconsideredprobiotic.

Nowtheproblemwiththatis,asyoumention,oftentimesthereareorganismsthatwefindinfermentedfoodswhichhavetraditionallybeenwhathumanbeingshaveconsumedasprobioticsbeforeanyoneknewyoucouldtrytostuffthemintoapilloranythinglikethatsincethedawnoftime.Andbyconsumingtheseorganismsinalivingform,thesenutrientsinalivingform,hey,guesswhat,humanbeingsare.We'reinalivingform.Andsowhenweconsumethosethingsthatalsomatch,arebioidenticaltowhatourhumanbodyneeds,thereisanuptakesystemthatallowsustointakethosenutrientsfarquicklyandfarmoreefficientlythanifwe'reconsumingtheminasyntheticform.

Andtoyourpointaboutthehumanmicrobiomeandalloftheresearchthat's,youknow,goneoninthelast,almost,adecade,it'ssurprisingtomethatwehaven'ttakentheopportunitytoupdatethatlist.BecauseIthinkthekeyfactorthatwe'relearningoutofallofthisresearchis,firstofall,wedon'tknowthehalfofwhatwe'relookingat.Youknow,it'sthemoreyouknow,thelessyouknow.Andtheotherthingthatwe'rereallyseeingisthatthekeycomponentisdiversity.Andwhatthisspeakstoisthefactthataslongaswe've,youknow,formanyyears,sincethe1800s,youknow,sincegermtheorybecameacommontheory,we'vebeenwaginggermwarfare.Andonacertainlevelthatwasduetoalackofunderstandingoftheroleofbacteriainthehumanbody.

Andsowhatweunderstoodwas,"Oh,well,here'sagerm,itcausesadiseaseoranillnessoranailment,let'skillgermsandthereforeeliminatethisdiseaseorailment."Unfortunatelywhatwe'veseenistheriseofsuperbugsasaresultoftryingtokillthemoff.Andthisisbecausebacteriaareincrediblyresponsive.Andwearebacteriosapiens,right?Sonotonlydotheyliveinsideofourbodyinourmicrobiome,theyliveonthesurfaceofourbody,theyliveonthesurfaceofeverything.Like,literally,I'msosorry,germaphobes,butthereisbacteriaeverywhere.Andourhumanbodywouldnotbeabletofunctionifwedidn'thavethoseorganismshelpingustouptakenutrition.

Interestinglyenough,thisisverysimilartohowtherootsofplantswork.Youknow,they'reinthegroundandit'sthebacteriainthesoilthatallowsthenutrientstobeabsorbedbytheplants.Andsoourgutisessentiallyoursoil,andweneedtobeputtingreallyhealthynutrientsintothatsoilsothatourplantcanflourish.Anddiversityiskey.

AndthereasonIbringthisupisbecausepeoplewilltalkaboutcandidaandcandidaovergrowth,right?Soit'snotthatourbodydoesn'tcontaincandida,infactitdoesnaturally.It'swhenthatcandidaisallowedtoover-proliferateintoanout-of-balancesituationthatwehaveaproblem.


5

AndsothereasonIbringthisupistoremindpeoplethatsometimeswemayhaveorwemightfindindifferentpopulationsthingsthatwewouldnormallyconsiderpathogens.However,they'representinaquantityinabalancedenvironmentsuchthatthey'reactuallyproducingapositivenetresultforthehost,versusifthatorganismwereoutofbalanceandthereforecreatinganegativeeffect.

Allofthisistosaythatweneedtobeeatingfermentedfoodsonaregularbasis.Andthegreatnewsisthattheycomeinsomanydifferentvarietiesandflavorsthatyoudon'thavetofeellike,"Oh,well,kombuchaistoosour,Idon'tlikethat.Oh,sauerkrautsmellslikestinkysocks."Wehaveyogurt,wehavewaterkefir,wehavecoconutwaterkefir.Youknow,there'sallthese.Miso,tempeh,there'sallthesedifferenttypesoffermentedfoodsthathavethispositiveeffectonourbodyandgettingawidevarietyofthemiswhat'sgoingtosupportourorganismbest,becausehonestlywedon'tknowexactlywhatitisweneedtoputinoursystem.

Katie:Yeah,exactly.AndIthinkyoubroughtupsuchanimportantpoint,likeyousaid,thatcrossesacrosstheboardinourlife,whichisthataspectofdiversity.AndIthinkthat'soneofthedownsidesof...Imeantherearemany,butoneofthedownsidesofthe"standardAmericandiet"isthatit'snotvaried,it'snotdiverse.It'sthesamefoodsoverandover,withoutexposuretootherfoods,otherbacteria.

Andthat'ssomethingthat'sshiftedformeeveninthelastcoupleofyears,isrealizingjusthowmuchourbodiesneeddiversityinmovement,diversityinfood,diversityineverythingsowedon'tadapttosomething.SoIactuallynowtrynottodoanythingeverysingleday,notanymovementeverysingleday,notanysupplementeverysingleday,andtoreallyfocusoneatingavarieddietandthrowinginasmany,youknow,differentherbsandplantspeciesanddifferentthingsthatwecantoserveourgutbacteriaandalsoourmicronutrientlevelsandallthat.AndIthinkanotherwonderfulwaytodothat,andIbetyouwouldagree,is,youknow,togarden,toexposeyourselftobacteriainthesoil,tohavepetsthatbringinbacteria.But,likeyousaid,nottobeafraidofthosegerms.

AndIlovethatyoubroughtupcandidabecausethisisanotherquestionIgetquiteabitontheblogonthatpostabouthowtomakekombucha.AndIthinkthere'salotofconfusion,likeyoutouchedon,whenitcomestokombuchaandpeoplewhohavecandida,especiallycandidaovergrowth,andiftheyshouldorshouldnotdrinkkombucha.Sofromyourresearch,what'syourtakeonkombuchaandfermentedproductsandcandida?

Hannah:Absolutely.AndIthinktheconfusioncomesfrom,again,peopleheartheword"yeast"andtheydon'tunderstand.Or,youknow,wejusthaven'tworkedwithyeastonaregularbasistounderstandthatthereisdifferenttypesofyeastandhowtheyreproducearedifferentandtheirfunctionsaredifferent.Andsojustlike,youknow,germwarfarewherewethink,"Oh,allbacteriaarebad,"peoplewillthink,"Oh,allyeastarebad,especiallycandidaandcandidaovergrowth.Andsoifyouconsumeanythingwithyeast,that'sgoingtobeaproblem."

Therealityisinthenaturalworldlikecontrolslike.Sowhatthatmeansisgoodbacteriaholdbadbacteriaincheckandgoodyeastholdbadyeastincheck.Andthethingaboutkombuchaandcandida,there'sacoupleoffactorsgoingon.Firstofall,ifyou'rebuyingitfromthestore,commercialproducersobviouslyunderstand


6

thattheAmericanpalateisonthesweeterside.AndsoratherthanjusthitthemarketwithabunchofSourPower,whichIreallylove,peoplehavechosentohavelighterprofilesforkombucha,sweeterprofilesforkombucha.Andsometimesifyou'redrinkingacommercialkombucha,itcouldbethatitdoeshavemoresugarthanifyouweremakingahomebrewathome,andthereforeitcouldpotentiallybeactivatingthecandida.

Sothefirstthingistoconsiderwhatkombuchaareyouconsuming.Ifyou'remakingahomebrewandyou'reacandidasufferer,thenicethingisyouhavetheopportunitytoallowthatfermenttogoalittlebitlonger,moreofthesugarsareconvertedintothehealthyacids,anditmighthaveatangierflavoronyourtongue.Well,whenyougotoconsumethattypeofkombucha,itstartstoclearoutthebadguys.Andsosometimesitgetsworsebeforeitgetsbetter.And,youknow,ahealingcrisisissomethingthatonlyanindividualcanascertainfromthemselfifthat'swhat'shappeningintheirbody.Imeanthinkaboutit,nobodyelselivesinyourbody.Andyoucandescribesymptomsuntilyou'reblueinthefaceandyou'llstillhaveadoctorsay,"Okay,it'sallinyourhead,"orsomethinglikethat.Unfortunatelywe'veseenthatfartoooften.

Andsoreallyyouneedtobethestewardofyourowntemple,youneedtobepayingattentiontoyourownbody.Andourmotto"trustyourgut"isallaboutteachingyouhowtoclosethosefeedbackloopsbypayingattentiontowhatyou'reconsumingandhowitmakesyoufeel.

Socandidaisagreatexampleofthis,right?Theorganismsinyourbodycravesugarandtheydemandyouconsumesugar.Andyouthink,"Oh,Iwantsugar,"soyouhavesomesugar.Andinthemomentmaybeitfeelsgood,ittastesgood,whatever.Butsoonthereafteryouhavearash,youhaveaninfection,you'reitchy,youhavealltheseawfulsymptoms,youfeelbloated,youfeelgassy.Okay,that'syourbodycommunicatingtoyousaying,"Hey,Iknowthoseorganismsdemandedsugar,butyouknowwhat?It'snothavingapositiveeffect."

Andsoclosingthatfeedbackloopisstartingtopayattentionnotjusttohowthingsareonyourtastebuds,buthowtheyactuallymanifestinyourphysicalbody,andthenconnectingthosetwo.And,youknow,wehavethisamazingDNAwisdomandthisamazingabilitytoknowwhatnutrientsourbodiesneedinstinctually.Theproblemis,asI'msureyouknowandasyoualreadybroughtup,"standardAmericandiet,"we'reexposedtosomuchadvertising,somuch...Youknow,theysubsidizecorn,wheat,andsoy,andthisiswhyweendupwitheveryvariationofcorn,wheat,andsoyunderthesun.Andunfortunatelywe'reseeing,youknow,evenfolkswhoarechoosingmorevegetables,ormoreofavegetarianorvegantypeoflifestyle,unfortunatelythoseprocessedfoodsendupbeingfarworseforyouthenifyouweretojusteatawell-roundeddietof,youknow,morediverseinputs.

Andsoit'sreallyfascinatingtoseehowallofthisimpactsourbody,butbacktoourpointaboutcandida.Makingyourownkombuchaathome,youmightgothroughadie-offperiod,typicallyit'sabout10daystotwoweeks.But,again,onlyyouknowifit'sadie-offversus,"ThisiscreatinganissueandIneedtonotconsumekombuchainthismoment,switchtoamilkkefir,switchtoacoconutwaterkefirinstead,andthenreintroducekombuchawhenyourbiomeismorebalanced.

Katie:Gotit,yeah,thatmakesperfectsense.AndIthink,likeyousaid,anything,it'sabouttheamount,it'saboutunderstandingyourbody,there'salotoffactorsthatgoin.Andonthatnote,anotherareathatcomes


7

upalotinthequestions,andIthinkitalsohasanaspectof,like,knowingyourbodyandinthiscase,Iwouldsayalso,like,talkingtoapractitioner,butistheissueofcanwomenconsumekombuchawhilepregnantornursing.AndIknowpartofthatisacomplicatedanswerbecausealcoholistypicallyconsideredtaboowhenpregnant,andwe'vealreadymentionedtherearetraceamountsofalcohol,butIalsoknowthattherearewaysthatitcanverymuchbefine.Socanyouspeaktothekombuchawhilepregnantandnursingquestion?

Hannah:Again,itgoesbacktotrustyourgut.Right?I'vehadfriendswholovedkombucha,gotpregnant,couldn'tstandthesmellofit.That'syourbodysaying,"Notformerightnow."I'vehadotherfriendswhosaidtheycraveditallthroughtheirpregnancy,ithelpswithmorningsicknessbecauseofthetraceamountsofBvitamins,ithelpedwiththeconstipationbecauseitaidsindigestion,alleviatingstress,thingslikethat.Sothere'salotoffolkswhoexperiencepositiveoutcomesasaresultofconsumingkombuchawhilepregnant.

Andthetraceamountsofalcohol,justtobeclear,arenotintoxicating.Youknow,we'retalkingaboutanywherefrom,youknow,.2%upto2%ABV.WhentheyendedProhibitionbackinthe1930s,theysaidthat4%alcoholbyvolumewasconsiderednon-intoxicatingforanadult.Andsowe'retalkingaboutlevelsthatarehalfthatorlessthanhalfthat,oftencomparabletoapieceoffruit.

AndthereasonIbringthisupisbecauseagain,wehearawordandwefreakout,"Ah,yeast!Ah,bacteria!Ah,alcohol!"Whentherealityisthathumanshaveconsumedalcoholmedicinally,again,sincethedawnoftimebecauseitwasoneofthefewthingsthathadthepowertoextractnutrientsasasolventandpassthoseontotheconsumer.And,infact,inothercountrieswe'llhearabout,youknow,thewomangivesbirthandtheyhandheraglassofbeersothatshecanstartreleasinghermilkmoreeasily.AndsoIthinkthere'salsoaculturalconstructaroundalcoholthat,again,wetaketothatsortofblackandwhitetypeofthoughtprocessthatisn'tentirelyaccurate.

Andsosamething,awomanwho'snursingcanenjoykombucha,andchildrenlovekombucha,babiescandrinkkombucha.It'srememberingthatthisisn'tamagicpotion,it'safood.It'safoodwithnutrientsinlivingform.And,youknow,therearefoodsthataren'tappropriateforbabiestoconsumeatcertainages,but,forexample,kombuchahasbeenusedtohelpbabieswithcolic.ThereareseveraldifferentpapersandstudiesandanecdotalinformationtalkingaboutinRussiacolickybabiesweregivenkombuchaandithelpedsettletheirstomach,somethingthatweoftendon'tevenunderstandwhattherootcauseis.However,whenwegotohelpaidtheirdigestionwithalittlebitofkombucha,probablydilutedwithwater,wefindthatitcanhaveapositiveoutcome.

Andso,again,"trustyourgut"isabouttrustingyougut,butit'salsoobservingthebehaviorofyourchildrenwhenyougivethemkombuchaandseeinghowaretheyrespondingtothisbrew.Aretheyhavinganegativereactionoraretheyhaveapositivereaction?Andnowobservethemwhenyougivethemsodaorjuiceandseewhattypesofreactionsyou'regettingthere,aswell.

Katie:Ithinkthat'sgreatadvice,again,acrosstheboard,oflearningtolistentoyourownbody.Becausethat'ssotrueanditcanapplytoanything,notjustkombucha.Likeourkidsorwecanhaveareactiontoanyfoodor


8

anythingintheenvironment.SoIthinkthat'soneofthoseskillsthatallofuswouldbewellservedtocontinuecultivatingbecause,likeIsaid,itappliesineveryaspectoflife,aswell.

Totalkaboutthesugaraspectalittlebitmore,I'dlovetohearfromyouiftherearewaystomakeitverylowsugarortofullyremovethesugar.Iknowthatthesugarislargelyfermentedoutduringtheprocessofbrewingkombucha,butIalsoknowthere'salotofmovementsrightnow,likeketoorlowcarb,wherepeopleareconsciouslytryingtoavoidsugar.Soisthatpossibletodo,isitpossibletomakealowsugarkombucha?

Hannah:Absolutely,itispossible.Nowtheflavorisn'tasrich,andthat'sbecausethesugarisnotforyou,thesugarisnutrientsfortheorganismsthatarefermentingtheteaandsugarandturningitintothosehealthyacids.Nowhere'stheotherthingtoconsider.Whenwe...Again,wesay"sugar"andwethinktablesugar,whichissucrose.Andsucroseisadisaccharide,thatmeansithasbothfructoseandglucosebounduptogetherinthatmolecule.Inthefermentationprocessforkombuchathoseorganisms,theyeastiscreatinganenzymethatsplitsthatmoleculeintwo.Andsowhatyouendupwithinkombuchaisfructose,glucose,andalittlebitofsucroseremains,aswell.However,thosesugarshavealowerglycemicimpactthanifyouwereconsumingtablesugar.

AnddefinitelyIunderstandthepushtoreducesugarcontent,butIalsosay,"Well,inwhatsource?Whatisthesourceofyoursugar?"Areyougettingsugarinyourdietthroughhigh-fructosecornsyrup?Areyougettingitinyourdietthroughachemicalmadeinalab,likeaspartame?Orareyougettingitfromagrassthat'sbeengrownfor5,000years?And,yes,thereisaprocessingsteptosugar,butit'salsowhatformarewereceivingitinourbodies.It'salsothatfermentedform.

Andthenlastly,Iwouldrecommendifyou'remakingkombuchaathome,nolessthanthree-quartersofacupsugarpergallon.Lessthanthatandyoutendtohaveaflatflavor,thefermentationdoesn'treallyhappenasitshould,yougetpoorSCOBYgrowth,andyoualsomissoutonyourfizz.

Katie:Gotit,okay.That'ssuchagreatexplanation.Andonthatnote,let'stalkhomebrewsafetyandthebestwaytomakekombucha.BecauseIknowtherehavealsobeenconcernsaboutifit'sdoneincorrectlytherecanbecontaminationorbacteriathat'snotsupposedtobethere.Soyouhaveextensiveexperiencewiththis,walkusthroughwhatpeopleneedtoknowiftheyaretryingtomaketheirown,andespeciallytofitalowersugarprofileorsomeveryspecificthingthey'retryingtoaccomplish.

Hannah:Imeanlikeanyfoodthatyou'remakingathome,cleanliness,youjustwanttohaveanice,sanitaryenvironment.Andthinkaboutthis,right?Kombuchaandsauerkraut,allofthesefoods,havebeenwithhumanbeingsforthousandsofyearsandwelivedinconditionsthatverymuchdonotresemblethewayinwhichwelivetoday.Theywere,youknow,whatwewouldconsiderdirtierormessier,welivedclosertotheearth.And,youknow,somemightsaywehadastrongerbacterialforcefieldatthatpointintimeandnowwehaveaweakeronebecausewe'renotincontactwiththoseorganismsasfrequently.


9

Sothemostimportantthingisgoingtobesanitationinyourkitchen.Andit'snormalsanitation,we'renottalkingaboutwearingaHAZMATsuitor,youknow,gettingoutthebleachoranythinglikethat.Thisisthereallyawesomethingaboutallfermentedfoods,andthatistheycreateacidsthatpreventmicrobesandpathogensfromgrowing.Nowthey'realsoafood,justlikeanyother.Andsohowdoesfoodtellyouit'snotsafetoconsume?Moreoftenthannotitgrowsmold.

So,again,whenyou'reworkingwithkombucha,rememberit'safood.Andsoifyouseemold,that'sanindicatorthatyoushouldnotbeconsumingthatproductorthere'ssomethingwrongintheenvironment,youdon'thavethetemperaturedialedinoryourinputsaren'tappropriate.Youknow,forexample,peoplewilltrytofermentwithstevia,whichisnotafermentablesugar,andthatcanleadtomoldrightoffthebat.Youmighttrytobrewinanenvironmentthat'stoocold.Kombuchalikesatemperaturerangeof75to85,with80beingthesweetspot.Andifwearetoocold,sometimesitcanstillwork,butwe'llgetnotasgoodofaflavor.Butoftentimesitwillgotomold,especiallyifit'stoocoldearlyonintheprocess.

Andsojustkeepinginmindthatwhatwe'reconsumingisfoodanditcommunicateswithusthesamewayotherfoodsdo,itisagreatreminder.And,infact,theacidprofileinkombucha,notonlythelowpHbutthespecificorganicacids,killpathogensoncontact.Sobrewingkombuchaathomeisactuallysaferthanpreparingsomeothertypesoffoodthatcouldbemoresusceptibletobacteria.Forexample,youknow,rawchickenorrawmilkorthingslikethat,whichcansometimeshaveorganismsthatarenotdesirableandthatyoucan'tsee.SpinachsometimeshasE.coli,youdon'tevenknowitdoes.I'mnottryingtomakepeopleafraidoftheirfoodbyanystretchoftheimagination,butmayberinseitinsomekombuchabeforeyouuseitandthatwillbebetter.

But,longstoryshort,makingkombuchaathomeisincrediblysafe,it'sbeendoneforthousandsofyears,anditalreadyhasthosedefensemechanismsbuiltin.Ofcourse,ifyouseemold,tosseverythingandstartover.

Katie:AndyoutouchedonanothergoodpointthatIwanttojustmakesureweexplicitlyanswer,whichisthatquestionof,youknow,"Doyouactuallyneedsugartobrewkombucha?"Andtheneveryfollow-upquestion,whichis,"Whataboutstevia,ormaplesyrup,orhoney,orcoconutsugar,etc.,etc.?"Sowhatcanbeusedtobrewkombuchaandwhatdoweneedtosticktotomakesureitissafe?

Hannah:Youknow,thisisthegreatthingaboutthekombuchaSCOBY,it'sflexibletechnology.Sooriginallyitwasthoughtitwasonlyblackteaandsugar,andwehavecometodiscoverthereareavarietyofteasandherbs,youcanevenmakecaffeine-freekombuchausingthingslikerooibosorherbsandflowersandthings,hibiscus,ginger,thingslikethat,andprimaryfermentation,insteadoftea.Providedtheherbortheplantyou'reusinghasenoughnutrientsfortheculture,you'llendupwithitreproducingovertime.

Intermsofsugarsources,theyhavetobefermentable.So,like,yourstevia,yourmonkfruit,thosearenon-fermentablesugars.Andsothey'renotgoingtobe...they'renotgoingtosustaintheorganismsbecausetheydon'thavethenutrientstheyneed.Canyouusemaplesugar,coconutpalmsugar?Absolutely.Justkeepinmindthatwhenyoursugarhasahighermineralcontent,thatthatcanactuallyoverstimulatetheyeastandcauseittosourmorequickly.Soifyouareexperimentingwiththesedifferentsugartypes,you'lljustwantto


10

tastemorefrequentlysoyou'reharvestingitatapointwhenithasaflavorthat'sstillappealingtoyoubeforeitgetstooacid-heavy.AndI'veexperimentedwithawidevarietyofsugars.

Nowifyouwanttouserawhoneyspecifically,thereisacultureuniquetorawhoneythat'sarelativeofkombuchaandit'scalled/jən/,or/jo͞on/,J-U-N.Wesayjunrhymeswithfun,butyoucancallit/jo͞on/.It's/pəˈtādō/,/pəˈtädō/,really.Andthatcultureisuniquelyevolvedtoharmonizewiththeorganismsintherawhoney.

So,forexample,whenwegivesugartoourjunandrawhoneytoourkombucha,theybothgotomoldrightawaybecausethey'renotadaptedtoworkwiththosedifferentorganisms.So...Butpeoplewholoverawhoneywhoareturningtothatinsteadofsugar,definitelygrabajunculture,asthat'sareallyfunwaytofermentyourhoney.Andithasalovely,like,floralflavor,itgetsalittlebubblier,youcandoitataslightlycoolertemperaturebecausetheglucoseandfructosearealreadyfree-flowinginthehoney,versusinthesugarwherethey'reallboundupinthesucrose.Andsoit'sagreatalternativetokombuchaifyou'relookingtotrysomethingelse.

Katie:Yeah,therearesomanyoptionswhenitcomestofermentingthings.Andremembering,likeyousaid,thesearefoods,notcrazysupplements.Andtheyarethingsthatpeoplehavemakingforyearsandyearsandyearsandyears.Andso,andIknowyouguyshaveresources,likebotheducationalandthesuppliesneededtomakeallofthesedifferenttypesofferments,andofcoursetherewillbelinkstothoseintheshownotes.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyAlituraNaturalsskincare.Youguyslovedthefounder,Andy,whenhecameonthispodcasttotalkabouthisownskinhealingjourneyafteratragicaccidentthatcausedmassivescarringonhisface.Fromthisexperiencehedevelopedsomeofthemostpotentandeffectivenaturalskincareoptionsfromserumstomasksandtheresultsarevisibleinhisperfectlyclearskinthatisfreeofscars!Ilovethemaskanduseitacoupletimesaweek,andoftenusethegoldserumatnighttonourishmyskinwhileIsleep.Alloftheirproductshavesupercleaningredientsandtheyreallywork!Andyisabsolutelydedicatedtocreatingthehighestqualityproductspossibleanditshows.Checkthemoutatalituranaturals.com/wellnessmamaandusetheDiscountcode"wellness"toget20%off.

ThispodcastissponsoredbyThriveMarket,acompanyI’veknownandlovedsincetheverybeginning.Theirgoalistomakerealfoodaffordabletoeveryoneandtheynowhelptheirhalfamillionmembers,includingme,gettheorganicfoodswelovedeliveredtoourdoorforless!ThinkofanonlinecombinationofCostcoandwholefoodswithtonsoforganic,allergyfriendly,paleo,vegan,Ketoandotheroptions.Theannualmembershipearnsyoufreegiftsandguaranteedsavings,andsponsorsafreemembershipforalow-incomefamily.You’llget25-50%offtopbrandsandIalsoalwaysorderthenewThriveMarketbrandproductsthatprovideanevenbiggerdiscountontheir500+highqualityproducts.Checkitoutandsave25%onyourfirstorderbygoingtothrivemarket.com/wm

Katie:Iwanttoswitchgearsalittlebit,too,thoughbecauseImentionedthatyoualsohavethismissionwhenitcomestokombuchaandtheeducationside.SoIwanttotalkaboutafewaspectsofthat.Firstofall,whatistheKBI?Explainwhatthatisandallthestuffyoudowithintheindustrytoadvancethekombuchaindustry.


11

Hannah:Absolutely.Soourmissionischangingtheworldonegutatatime.AndeventhoughIspeakMandarinChineseandSpanish,thoseweremymajorsincollege,I'mnotgoingtobeabletocommunicatewithall1-point-however-manybillionpeoplethereareonthisplanet.Sowe'vealwaysunderstoodthatifwecreategreateducationalresourceswhilealsopartneringwiththeindustry,thatishowourmissionisgoingtobeexecutedintheworld,throughsymbiosis,throughcollaboration,that'swhatourcultureisallabout.

AndsowhenIfirststartedmyblogin'07,Ireallyreachedouttothecommercialproducerswhowerenearme,GT'sandHouseKombuchaupinNorthernCalifornia,andIreallywantedtohighlightthesebrands.Iwassoexcitedaboutkombucha,Ijustwantedeverybodytoknowwheretheycouldgetalocalbrand.AndthatloveoftheindustryandthecultureandthefermentitselfhasreallygrownintoKombuchaBrewersInternational.

Soin2010,justtogivealittlehistorylessonhere,WholeFoodsremovedallofthekombuchafromshelvesduetothetraceamountsofalcoholpotentiallypresent.Andthat,ofcourse,createdahugeholeintheindustry.AndwhatAlexandIrecognizedwasthattherewasn'tacentralplacethatcouldhelpeducatepeopleaboutwhatkombuchais,therewasn'tacentralplaceforkombuchaproducerstocometogetherandtackleissuestogether,andthat'swheretheseedforKombuchaBrewersInternationalwasplanted.

Andin2014westartedwithKombuchaKon,it'sourannualconference.We'venowhadsixconferencestodate,everyyearthey'rebiggerandbigger.Thisyearwehadover400attendeesrepresenting17countriesaroundtheworldandover100kombuchabrands.And,youknow,Ithinkit'satestament.Ican'ttakecreditforallofit,but,youknow,Ithinkalotofpeoplestartedhomebrewingwithoursupplies,ourbookTheBigBookofKombuchahashelpedthemreallyfine-tunetheirprocess.Thetradeassociationgivesthemresourcestheyneedinordertohaveanopportunitytonutrifytheircommunitiestoworkinsomethingthat,I'mnotgoingtolie,it'salaboroflove,emphasisonthelabor.Butifyou'resomeonewhoreallywantstogivebacktoyourcommunity...

Andthat'sthereallyneatthingaboutourindustry,isalmosteveryproducerissomeonewhohadahealthchallenge,kombuchahelpedtheminsomeway,andthatiswhathasinspiredthemtowanttobringthisproducttotheircommunity.And,ofcourses,somebrandsgrowlarger,we'veseentheHealth-Ades,theHumms,theBrewDr.'s,alongwithGT's,becomenationalbrands.Butthenwhat'sreallyuniqueaboutourindustryareallthesmallregionalproducers,whichyoureallydon'tseeinfoodasmuch.Likeyoudon'treallyseeregionalstart-upsasmuch,exceptinthefermentedfoodspace.

Andsowe'rereallyexcitedtohelpstabilizetheindustrythroughourlobbyingefforts.WehavetheKombuchaAct,whichisinCongressandtheSenaterightnow.It'sdesignedtoeliminatetaxesonkombuchaifitgoesupto1.25%alcoholbyvolume.AndasImentionedearlier,thesetraceamountsofalcoholarenotintoxicating.However,duetothewaythelawsarewritteninourcountry,ifitevergoesabove.5%,whichitcansometimesdoifit'snotkeptinacoldsupplychainbecauseit'salivingfood,right?Ifyouweretotestabanana,itsnutrientprofilewouldbeXononedayandYonanotherday.Andsojustlikeapieceoffruit,becauseit'salivingfood,itcannaturallychange.Andsothislawisdesignedtoeliminateanysortoftaxliabilitythatmightberequiredasaresultoftheslightshiftingsofthetraceamountsofalcohol.


12

Andwe'realsoworkingonstandardofidentity,whichistodefinekombuchaandwhatitis.Notjustasanendproduct,butalsoasaprocess.And,youknow,partofthepagewe'retakingislookingat,say,orangejuice.Right?Itusedtobeorangejuice,inourminds,youtookanorangeandyousqueezedit,there'sthejuice,that'sorangejuice.Ofcourseovertimewhatwesawistherewerejuicesfromconcentrate,therewasorangedrink.Andittooklawsuitsinordertoforcetheorangejuiceindustrytosay,"Hey,thisproductisfromconcentrate,versusthisisafreshsqueezed."AndasyouandIknow,whenyou'reinthegrocerystorechoosingbetweenavarietyofoptions,you'regoingtopayadifferentpriceforsomethingthatyoubelieveisfreshsqueezedversussomethingthat'sfromconcentrate.

Andsowereallywanttogettransparentwithconsumerssotheyunderstandwhyisthiskombucha$2.50andthisoneis$5,sotheycanmakethatinformeddecision,"DoIwanttogowithaproductthatmaybeisaddedprobioticswithaflavorandaconcentrateordoIwanttogowithaproductthat'sbeenthroughatraditionalfermentationprocessthathasthesenutrientsinlivingform?"

Andsothat'sjustsomeofthebigpiecesofworkthatwe'redoingrightnowwithKombuchaBrewersInternational.I'mthePresidentthere,AlexisChairmanoftheBoard,andIspendprobablyaboutathirdofmytimehelmingthetradeassociationandgrowing,we'vejustbeengrowinglikecrazy.

Soit'sexcitingtoseekombuchatakingthestage.Wereallythinkofitasasimilartrajectorythatyogurtfollowed,whereourgenerationgrewupbuyingyogurtatthegrocerystoreandhavingitasaregularbasis,itwasinourgrocerycarts,andnowit'samultibillion-dollarindustry.Whileourparents'generation,theyhadtomaketheirownyogurtontheircounter,right?Allthesecrazyhippiesandtheircounterculturesthatthenendupmainstream.Well,that'swhat'shappeningwithkombucha.Traditionallyit'sbeenthose,youknow,crazyhippiesorwhomever,thosepeopleseekingnaturalhealthalternatives,andnowwe'restartingtoseekombuchareallypickingupinthemainstream.And,infact,it'sthefastestgrowingfunctionalbeveragesegmentforthelastseveralyearsrunning,withvelocitiesof30%to50%growthyearafteryear,dependingonthechannel.

Sothatwasalotofnerdyspeak,sotospeak,aboutthekombuchaindustry,butwereallyarepassionateaboutthatmission.And,ofcourse,havinglocaloptionsisakeywaytointroducingpeopletokombucha,becausenoteverybodyisgoingtostartmakingitrightoffthebat.

Katie:Yeah,anditsoundslikeyou'redoingthisworkonalargescale,helpingeducateaboutwhatthosedifferenttermsmean.Forpeoplewhoarelisteningandarejust,atthispoint,consumersandgoingtothegrocerystore,forinstance,howcantheyknowifthey'regettingagoodkombuchaornot?

Hannah:Absolutely.Sowordsyouwanttolookforare"raw,""unpasteurized."Youknow,asmuchaswe'reusedtohavingclearbeverages,floatythingsinyourkombuchaisactuallyagoodthingbecausethatindicatesthosestrandsofculturemeansit'salive.You'relookingforkombuchasthataren'tshelf-stable.Ifthey'renotintherefrigeratedsection,it'sprobablybecausethey'repasteurized.Althoughwedoknowsomepasteurizedkombuchasliveintherefrigeratedsectionbecausetheywanttobeperceivedliketheirrawcounterparts.


13

Andsoreally,doingyourdiligence,readingthelabels.Somebrandsdoaddprobiotics,andthosearelistedonthelabelwheneverthat'sadded.Thatdoesn'tnecessarilymeanit'sbetterorworse,itjustmeansthere'sadditionalprobioticsinthebeverage.Andpartofthatisbecause,althoughweknowkombuchaisprobiotic,thoseorganismshaven'tbeenputonanofficiallist.Andsotopreventlawsuits,thiscountryverymuchenjoyslawsuits,peoplewilladdprobioticstotheirkombucha,aswell.

Butfarmers'market,youknow,goingtoyourfarmers'market,findingyourlocalproducer,gettingafreshglassontap,thosearereallygreatwaystofindthosetypesofkombuchas.Ifit'salittletangy,that'sgreat,itmeansithasthatSourPowerpresent.Andyou'llknowit'srealkombuchabythewayitmakesyourbodyfeel.ItrulybelievetheonlyreasonthatGTwasabletocreateanindustrysingle-handedly,youknow,Ipersonallythinkkombuchatastesamazing,butnoteverybodydoesonfirstsip.However,yourbodycan'thelpbuthaveaphysiologicalreactiontothosehealthyacids.AndwhenyoulookatthestandardAmericandietandhowdepleteditisofnutrientsinlivingform,itmakessensethatwhenyouconsumesomething...AndjustthisyearatKombuchaKonwehadaresearch,averysmallpilotstudydoneonhumansshowingthatwithinacouplehoursitreallydoeschangethoseinflammationmarkers,reducinginflammation,helpingwithdigestion.

Sowhenyou'vebeentakingabunchofpillsornotfeelingthatgreatandallofasuddenyoucangrabaproductofftheshelfandithasthatimmediatereaction,thisiswhykombuchahasstayingpower,thisiswhykombuchaisn'tafad,it'sareallynutritiousfoodbecausepeoplefeelthewayitworksintheirbody.

Katie:AndanotherthingthatIknowisintheworkswithyou,orthatyouhavebeeninvolvedin,whatistheKombuchaAct?Explainwhatyouguysaredoingwiththat.

Hannah:Yeah,exactly.SotheKombuchaActisthatpieceoflegislationImentioned,it'sintheHouseandtheSenate.Andthatbillisgoingtoraisethe...Soitgoesintotheinternalrevenuecode.Nowitdoesn'tchangethedefinitionofalcoholicbeverage,butitstatesthatforkombuchaalonetaxationwouldnotstartuntilthebeverageisata1.25%ABVorhigher.

Andletmejustbreakdownthekombuchaindustryalittlebit.Sowehaveourunder21kombuchas,theseareourhalf-a-percentandlowerkombuchas.Wehaveourtraditionalkombuchas,sothatwillbelikeaGT'sClassicoraWildKombuchaoutofIowaCity.Youknow,thesearebrandsthatarefermentingatraditionalkombucha,butit'sprobablytoppingoutataround2%ABV.So,again,notintoxicating,butabovethathalf-a-percentdefinedlimitforanon-alcoholicbeverage.Andthenwehavehardkombuchas,sothesehavereallypickedupinpopularityinrecentyears,thingslikeBoochcraft,UnityVibration,KYLA.Thesearekombuchastowhichadditionalyeast,higheralcohol-lovingyeast,havebeenaddedinordertocreateahighalcoholbeverage.

Andsosomepeoplemightsay,"Well,won'titbeconfusingtotheconsumer?"Andtheshortansweris"no."Becausethosewhoaremakinghardkombuchasaredoingsodeliberatelywiththepurposetointoxicate,andthosebeveragesareallsubjecttotheexcisetaxes.Youknow,peoplewhoaremakingthelow-alcohol,non-intoxicatingkombuchas,thisjustgivesthesmallbufferzonesothat,likeIsaid,ifthesenaturalchangesoccur


14

duetotransportationorsupplychainissues,ourproducerswon'tbepenalizedbecausetheproducthasshiftedslightly.

Soitjustsortofgivesthatrelieftofolks,givesthempeaceofmind.Becauserightnowwhatpeoplehavehadtodoisreallyshifttheirprocessinordertotrytocreatethisunder-half-a-percenttypeofproduct.Andthereasonforthatisbecausethelawsofnatureandthelawsofmanoftendon'tharmonize.Andthat'sjustwherewe'reatrightnow,we'realittleoutofharmonywitheachother.Butthesetraceamounts,again,they'renotintoxicatingandtheyhavethispositiveneteffectonthebody,andsowe'reconfident.Andeveryonewe'vetalkedtohassaid,"Oh,thisisreallycommonsense,thisisjustremovingredtape."

Sowereallyaregettingpositivebipartisansupportonthematterwhenwe'reabletogointhroughourhillclimbsandmeetingsinpersonandbyphonewithallthedifferentstakeholdersintheprocess.Andsorightnowit'sfindingtherightpieceoflegislationforittobeassociatedwith,ofcourseithastobetax-relatedsinceit'sataxissue.And,asyouknow,thingsinWashingtonarealittleupintheair,sotospeak,andsothatmakesbusinessasusualalittletoughertoexecute.

Sowe'vebeenengagingthisprocessforacoupleyears,buteverytime,youknow,itjustdeepensourconnectionstogovernment,whichissovitalforanindustry.Ithinkit's...asconsumerswesometimesforgethowimportantitistohavealliesingovernmentbecausetheycanhelpusthroughtheredtape.

Katie:Yeah,andIcanonlyimaginethescaleof,youknow,workingthroughthatinWashington.IwasinvolvedinaneffortwhereIusedtolivejusttolicensemidwivesbecausehomebirthwastechnicallyillegal.Andthatwasamulti-multi-yearprocesswithatonofgrass-rootsefforts.Andfinallywewereabletopassthat,butjustIunderstandevenonastatelevelhowmuchcangointothat.AndsoI'msureonanationallevelit'sevenmoretocoordinate,butIlovethatyouaredoingthatandonthefrontlinesworkingthroughthat.Likeyousaid,Ithinkitdoesmakealotofsenseandithelpsconsumerstohavetrustandtohaveoptions.AndsoI'mgladthatyouguysaredoingthat,I'llhavetostayintouchwiththeprogressonthat.

Ialsoknow,andpeoplenowknowfromthisinterview,justhowbusyyouareandhowmanyplatesyouhaveintheair,soIreallyappreciateyoutakingthetimetobeheretodayandtoeducate.Andofcourse,likeImentioned,allofyourresourcesandalsoallofthesuppliesfortheseproductsareonyourwebsiteandtherewillbelinkstoallofthosespecificsintheshownotessopeoplecanfindthemandkeeplearning.But,Hannah,thankyousomuchforbeinghere,thisisalwayssomuchfun.

Hannah:Oh,mypleasure,itwasreallygreattobeheretodaywithyouandtosharemoreaboutkombuchaandhowfarit'scome.And,yeah,trustyourgut,it'sreallyallaboutlisteningtoyourbodyandthatbiofeedback.Andlikeyousaidbefore,alsogettinginformationfrompractitioners.Andit'snotjustGoogleUniversity,it'slisteningtoyourbody,it'sgettingtherightinformationintoyourmindsothatyoucanharmonizethosetwoandjustfeelgoodagain.


15

Katie:Absolutely.Andthankstoallofyouforlisteningandsharingyourtimewithustoday,we'resogratefulthatyoudid.AndIhopethatyouwilljoinmeagainonthenextepisodeoftheWellnessMamaPodcast.

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

Documents

Episode 269: Kombucha Questions Answered: Alcohol, …fermented. She's also a popular speaker about kombucha, fermentation and bacteriosapiens. And through Kombucha Kamp's videos,