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Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
1
Summary Notes from Consultation Feedback
Ladysmith Zone
Held at Ladysmith Secondary School
Monday, June 17, 2013, 6 pm
Enrichment Programs: Group Discussion Notes - Page 1
Junior/Senior Learning Alternatives: Group Discussion Notes - Page 2
Davis Road Elementary Group 1: Group Discussion Notes - Page 3
Davis Road Elementary Group 2: Group Discussion Notes - Page 6
Ladysmith Intermediate: Group Discussion Notes - Page 8
Ladysmith Primary: Group Discussion Notes - Page 10
Ladysmith Secondary: Group Discussion Notes - Page 16
North Oyster Elementary: Group Discussion Notes - Page 19
Proposed 10-Year Plan: Group Discussion Notes - Page 23
Enrichment Programs / Skills Training Notes
Clarity needed around balanced school year / calendar
Must come from Ministry down – all of BC schools at same time
Summertime is a time for intensive sport training
BC system wide change for a balanced calendar
Which model?
Rec Centres often use university students
Communication with communities – Parks & Rec, Special Needs
Enrichment Program – ran through Dufferin – why is it not continuing? Creative problem solving.
Specialized enrichment program for all SD68 students.
Enrichment program in Ladysmith to draw students/families to area
Ladysmith students – challenge Grade 8 math (grade 7 going to high school) – Equity – all grade 7 students to be able to challenge math 8
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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International Baccalaureate (IB) and Advanced Placement (AP) – Cost is 3 years of external evaluators at expense of SD - $18,900 / elementary school / per year, $14,300 / high schools / per year – adjust curriculum and textbooks yearly – not BC curriculum – who is paying for these costs? If one school gets IB others should get the same funding.
IB class size limit of 25 so if at one school, all schools should have same class size – EQUITY
AP - $176 / exam / student – teachers need extra Pro-D to be allowed to teach AP – AP is American – If SD68 paying for AP Pro-D then same money for others – No benefit to AP – more exposure to VIU enrichment programs – maybe alternative is to taking VIU courses ahead of graduation – gr.12 for free – what is the cost benefit to AP?
Looking for funding to support Construction courses and community projects – requires flexibility in class time to build – community would benefit.
Too many students taking Learn@Home courses – students at LSS not able to take electives of their choice.
School size - Learn @ Home – clarify what it is and how it is allocated – 30% completion rate for L@H – cost for L@H? teaching time
Grade 8 Life Skills & Fine Arts Rotations – What electives are offered? Favouring girls – Where is metal/wood/auto mechanics? NDSS still has wood, metal and auto mechanics. Chemainus High (population 300) offers a huge number of electives.
Arts Program at elementary similar to secondary life skills. What will the Arts program at Cedar look like? Need clarity. Will there be an allocation for a specialist teacher? How will it be funded? Clarity and cost implications are necessary. Should be implemented in all schools.
Poll students to determine what electives they want and build timetables around their preferences.
More work experience opportunities.
Trades classes keep kids (particularly boys) engaged in school. Need electives that inspire passion.
Support Community projects.
Grade 8 parent night at LSS – fathers disappointed due to lack of electives (shops & trades).
Need pre-apprenticeship programs in all high schools.
Proposed Arts Program at North Oyster (see pamphlet).
How much would families pay for the IB program?
Would there be enough students to take AP to make it worthwhile ($$)?
Enrichment Programs (IB or IP or other) at LSS.
Expansion of French Immersion to Grade 12 at LSS for dual dogwood.
Learning Alternatives Notes Jla - junior learning alternatives Sla - senior learning alternatives
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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L@H K-7 Departure Bay 2018 Relocated to NDSS/Cilaire Transportation is available Upgrade to facilities
Are the same supports going to be available for our JLA/SLA when they transition into their own high school?
Adult L@H students be given the opportunity to register online to at other schools.
o due to transportation o NDSS difficult to get to o better signage for access o course content improving over time
Online-learning training for teachers – how to use technology; will enable teachers to be better
teachers of L@H courses as opposed to them being solely text based.
Will students at LSS be moved into Alt programs at a younger age?
Davis Road Elementary #1: Notes Concerns/Questions from participants to be addressed by senior staff:
1. High School to Elementary School– Why not change Ladysmith Secondary in to a K-7 school in
Ladysmith Secondary? Ladysmith HS students could go to Chemainus and Nanaimo.
2. What guarantees do we have that the great plan will actually happen? What happens if the
trustees change after the next election?
3. What will happen with the French immersion students in grade 6-7 if the plan for a K-5 school
goes ahead?
4. Why not take money from the district and then go to the Ministry of Education to support a new
French immersion school at Davis Road?
5. What are we going to do with the students in K-7 who are currently in Davis Road; putting them
in a condemned building? Where is the data for the facilities conditions coming from?
a. Staff can state that Ladysmith Intermediate is NOT condemned; it is safe for students
6. What are we doing to address the concerns about a condemned building (Ladysmith
Intermediate)?
7. Why are we considering putting grade 6 and 7 students in a high school?
8. Why are we considering putting children in Ladysmith Intermediate when the safety of this
building is lower than that of Ecole Davis Road?
9. Why are we putting our vulnerable kids in grade 6-7 into a high school? Look at the research.
10. Are we really in a consultation here? (Suspicion as to whether the voices of the Ladysmith
population will be heard?)
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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11. Will the students from Cedar projected to go to Barsby actually go there or will many be coming
to Ladysmith?
12. Are there hazmat suits in LIS earthquake kiosk and are teachers prepared to go back into the
building if there is an earthquake? Staff is not aware of any teacher unwilling to go back into the
building because of earthquake concerns and is not aware of any hazmat suits in the building.
13. Is LIS a higher earthquake risk than Davis Road? Pete Sabo explained that Ministry downgraded
LIS from high risk to moderate risk.
14. How can anyone, in the face of the middle school research, make the decision to go ahead with
the proposal to move grade 6 and 7 students into the high school?
15. If you put a vulnerable 11 year old into a high school with a vulnerable 17 year old, what does
that do to the at-risk 11 year old?
16. If the funding discussion for new schools is not already underway, how will those funds be
obtained?
17. Why is Ecole Davis Road 100 students over capacity in a terrible facility when other students in
Ladysmith have empty classrooms? It is the highest performing school in the district.
18. Has the facilities plan taken into consideration the community development plans (If the Holland
Creek and Seascape developments go ahead, by 2017 the Ladysmith schools will be over
capacity).
19. On Vancouver Island, all communities of this size have at least two elementary schools. Why not
Ladysmith?
20. Are we looking at lost funding and student numbers when unhappy parents from EDR take their
students to Chemainus or to private schools?
21. How can the district support a K-5 and 6-12 model when their own consultant condemned it for
the Qualicum district?
22. Will you survey the families to find out what they will do if EDR closes? What will families do if
they don’t have choice in schools?
23. Can you not build a new school at Davis Road now, move the Ladysmith students to North
Oyster and then if there is a need, build a new school at Ladysmith Intermediate? (see
submitted plan).
24. How do we support socially vulnerable students if they are going into the high school 2 years
earlier? Will we as parents be forced to look somewhere else if we do not want our children in
three different schools?
25. Where do the statistics come from for our school projections (Baragar)? Was the Ladysmith
Community Plan consulted (projections look for growth between 20% and 80% in the next 10
years)?
26. Who are we paying all this money to so we can shuffle kids from EDS to LIS and then from LIS to
LSS?
27. Are we respecting the fact that parents from Ladysmith downtown are taking their kids to EDR
despite the poorer facilities?
28. Why aren’t we looking at North Oyster as a place for Ladysmith kids?
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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29. Are we exploring community usage of our buildings (Vancouver Island University agriculture
program in LSS? First Nations programs?)
30. The grade 6-7 French immersion students, if put into LSS, what supports will they have?
31. EDR parents, where do you see your students going during the rebuild if there is a decision to
rebuild your school?
32. Is the acreage at LPS enough for a bigger elementary school?
33. How can we put 10-11 year-olds with 16-18 year olds? If you want to keep the funding here, you
may find you are pushing us into another school district. Is this what you want?
34. How many people are going to choose NOT to move to Ladysmith because of this decision?
35. Has there been an audit of SD68 to determine how well they are spending their funds?
36. What are the numbers of students who were turned away from EDR because they are full? Have
these statistics been considered in the plan? There is no way the statistics and projections for
zero growth can be valid with the development plans.
37. Why are we closing schools if there is not a plan and funding in place for rebuilding or a plan to
house them properly?
38. How many parents will take their kids out early to other districts because they are unhappy with
this plan? One family with 3 kids over 12 years could mean a great reduction in funds to the
district.
39. Has the lottery system for French Immersion affected the wait list at Davis Road? (Staff
confirmed there were 9-10 students waitlisted in K-1 because of the lottery system.
40. Pete Sabo responded to the school statistics questions – the Baragar data follow the population
trends of the actual buildings in place not the projected buildings.
41. In the decisions we make for our school district, are we making the community less attractive to
further development?
42. What is the predicted enrolment for K-7 in English at EDR? Doug English: 98 at present
43. Are all areas of the school district being asked to make cuts and big decisions about the district
or is it just in the south? Staff spoke to schools being closed previously in Nanaimo (Mount
Benson, Harewood)
44. Can you tell us about the enrichment opportunities in the plan? Where are they?
45. What do you suggest for the families of EDR? An audience member’s suggestion: Put the
French immersion students into North Oyster – a school of choice.
46. If Davis Road were not dual track, it would not be over capacity. Why close a school that is
working?
47. What is the assessed value or appraisal of the land at Davis Road? Doug Player described the
value of the extra property in his plan.
48. Is the Davis Road site not large enough to accommodate construction and also allow students to
remain on the site?
49. What happens if the trustees decide not to accept this plan? Is there enough time to come up
with an alternative or are we just going through the motions? Is there a plan B?
50. What is the purpose of this meeting if there are no options? Staff explained that the trustees
can adopt the plan, can accept it with modifications or can reject it.
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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51. Are the closures in the plan needed to balance this year’s budget? Staff: If the plan is rejected
by the trustees, this year’s budget is already in place and is not impacted by the plan – however
it would impact 2014-15.
52. Could some students remain an extra year in elementary school if they were not ready for high
school?
53. What is the safety net for our most vulnerable students? 4-5 moves is not educationally sound?
54. Is this enhanced facilities plan going to impact the growth in the south end of Ladysmith?
55. What are we going to do if students from the Aboriginal school want to come back to
Ladysmith? Will there be room for them?
56. How can we bring students back to our high school? We need to offer the academics – calculus,
enrichment. We have to offer solutions that bring students in.
57. Is there any way we can have a task force of Ladysmith community to bring together and review
the points raised here?
58. Are we checking the studies? Are they accurate?
59. How many trustees live in Ladysmith?
60. Can we study what EDR is doing right? FSA stats are showing steady growth.
61. Is there enough room to keep EDR open and build on the site?
62. What plan is in place to incorporate a middle school model within LSS? Has LSS organized the
middle school plan?
63. What plan is in place at LSS to begin the new school? Has LSS organized the plan?
Davis Road Elementary Group 2: Notes
Moving back to BC – moved back due to recommendation of EDR
Concerned about # of moves before school
Out-of-catchment area – can no longer walk
LI – concrete pad for playground
Ladysmith is a town with lots of schools, make LSS k-7 (sell EDR) and high school students could go to new Chemainus school – they are short by 350 students
Worried about a school being built when will that happen? What guarantee if trustees are voted out?
$$ to Cedar changes & LSS is the SD to put up a portion of the money, then go to the Ministry for further funding for a new EDR
Do not want to take the high school out of the community
Question about the assessment of the school being condemned (LIS)
Should we close LIS if the school is condemned? (Staff stated that it requires further maintenance)
Why move EDR if the assessment states that it is in better condition?
Look at the research concerned middle schools & learning success
Here to fight for the validity of the school, size, learning success (EDR)
Not in favour of K-5
Don’t want kids to be bussed; affects after-school activities
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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Kids are being turned away from EDR; it could be bigger
Frustrated with consultation process
Worried Ladysmith parents do not have a voice in Nanaimo (what size it is)
Research shows that we should not go ahead with this proposal
Middle school concept is continually failing
The more students move the more issues kids have
Find it curious that LIS now has a moderate rating, there are Hazmat suits in the emergency kiosks because of asbestos, teachers are not willing to go back in the building in the event of an earthquake
Concerned about LIS not being earthquake upgraded
EDR is a safer school – LIS is a 2-storey bldg. which is greater risk
Gr. 6 & 7’s can be leaders of the school. We are robbing them of this opportunity when they go to high school too early
Concerned about older students, comments to younger students
Middle school in a high school – have we looked at the impact of at risk students?
Kids are socially vulnerable, younger students are at risk for drugs, other social issues
Concerned that no plans, discussions underway for new school facility
Economic development in the community will grow in the next couple of years because people want to come to the area & for the schools
EDR is the highest performing rate
In 2017, the new school would be overcapacity due to the planned development in the area. portables would be needed.
Take away choice – families will not want to live here
Parents of EDR will take their kids to Chemainus, resulting in a loss of dollars to the district
Will protect children at all costs
Cowichan is staying K-7 & 8-12 after listening to the parents through consultation process
Consultant condemned K-5 model, why are we considering it?
EDR is highest in demand & performance. Close LI instead
Gr 6-12 will not be successful, parents want options & will go elsewhere
Want community schools, SD should be modeling EDR school
North Oyster wonders why it is closing when it is 8 minutes away
Build a new school in Ladysmith in the future (see plan)
Mentoring of EDR will be lost
Have siblings at the same school is huge, kids help, teachers help
Parent chooses EDR rather than Chemainus
EDR is a family – EDR defeats bullying
Students going earlier will be really affected
School district is taking away the choice of a K-7 school
Don’t want 3 kids in 3 different schools
Reasons for closure in proposal & where the statistics come from, doesn’t match the OCP growth plan
EDR students have to walk down the ‘dogwood dip’, that has to be considered
If looking to move kids why not move them to North Oyster?
What has been done to quantify the space loss? Partner with VIU, first nations programs, cultural programs
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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Need dialogue with community/university programs
First generation of French immersion students (Gr. 6 &7) lose their support by entering a middle school within a high school
EDR should be rebuilt
Would like to see middle school outside of the high school by itself so older students mentor younger students
Moved here for K-7 French Immersion school which are very rare. Why lose it?
Families were turned away from EDR due to overcapacity
Have a plan in place before making any moves, no plan right now
Do a survey to see how many families will pull their kids from Ladysmith if this plan goes forward
French Immersion waitlist has grown since the lottery process. More accessibility so it will probably continue to grow
By eliminating choice of smaller schools will affect attractability for new families with children
20% of EDR students are 2nd generation
Area of EDR is large so students can remain there if new building takes place
This plan does not have a safety net for the most vulnerable kids or a back-up plan – needs to be modified
Look at solution #14 on Success for all. Close LIS and South Wellington to North Oyster, make LPS a K-7 school. Need to bring academics back to LSS 8-12 so kids come back from the private schools
Offer calculus (academics) no matter what the numbers are
The community willing to help with the money, parents at EDR are willing to stay in portables – will rally to help the board
Send someone in to study the success of EDR
Look at demographics of North Nanaimo and what is happening there
Ladysmith Intermediate Notes
Small school was a choice for parent.
Concern re: Grade 6 students with Grade 12 influence on younger students
Worried about how vulnerable younger students will respond to the transition with older students and bigger school.
First-hand experience with K to 12 detrimental for younger students to around grade 8+.
Moved to Ladysmith to be a part of current system.
Worried about younger students being the victim of peer pressure.
Will the facility be appropriate for 10 year olds? Grades 6-8/Grades 9-12 not just 1 large school.
Parents with excited 10 year old re: enhanced opportunities for students
School within a School - to make sure this does occur.
Is the funding for the Ladysmith “Super” school guaranteed?
Older students being a negative influence
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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Young students wanting to emulate older students (negative)
The plan seems to go against optimal school size
Goes against philosophy of SD 68 K-7/8-12 configuration.
Written submission made re: research on negative impact on students
Decision seems to be driven by budget rather than increasing student success
K-7 provides leadership opportunities for students
Proposed configuration does not provide appropriate leadership
Budget driven decision is ok
No promises of new facility
This plan would lead to a drop in enrolment (students leaving district/private school)
Will plan go through before budget approval from Ministry?
See value in Middle School – excited to see plan come to fruition as long as students are separated appropriately = 6-8/9-12
Will this plan go ahead without Ministry dollars?
Ladysmith residents ‘look after their own’ – important to be positive about the plan. Small community. More resources/opportunities for students in a larger school.
Movement of French Immersion to Ladysmith Intermediate is great.
Lot size doesn’t look big enough for the proposed population for elementary (consider a different location)
Excited about plan. Ladysmith Primary school already integrates with LSS – positive experience - more resources available to students.
Students are transitioning with their peers regardless of buildings.
Kids will find trouble if they want to find it. It is about the support of parents/teachers/EAs to bring Ladysmith together as a whole.
K-3 already exists right beside Grades 8-12; it is a great reciprocal relationship
If schools are closed and Ministry doesn’t provide the money – will schools reopen or keep the properties?
Will there be a playground for younger students at the high school and space for that?
One K-12 would unite the community in one area. Many benefits.
There would be more support for a K-7 and anything else would drive people from the community.
Grade 6 and Grade 12 are not on same emotional level. How is “segregation” going to take place?
No secured funding – long timeline to secure dollars. How long will we be in limbo? What is the timeline for funding?
Believe there is a tremendous amount of misinformation being circulated.
Extend consultation period to rectify misinformation
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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Thinks a middle school will draw students to Ladysmith.
More pooled resources rather than more buildings
We do need to use our resources more efficiently
Details on curricular resources as part of Middle School Model – particularly library. Communication is needed with parents.
Request for parent/student participation in visioning of middle school consultation
Number of elementary students in Ladysmith could support two K–7 schools so why change the model?
Focus on peoples’ needs when considering portions of the plan and focus on individual groups
Does the savings realized by this Ladysmith plan stay in Ladysmith?
If you have to “segregate” students (school within a school). Why are you doing it?
Please provide details on what programs and enhancements would result that are directed to Grades 6/7 students?
Where would student leadership opportunities come from within the M.S.M (middle school model)? (Grades 6-8)
Will the increase in dollars to the school benefit the senior grade levels (academic program) as well as Grades 6 – 8? ie Enrichment
In move from EDR to LIS, does it increase resources to LIS students (misconception around the NET benefit)?
Suggestion – lengthier consultation with Q and A sessions before public consult.
The way the plan was presented led to negative reactions to what could be a positive opportunity
ThoughtStream was appreciated
Q & A opportunity prior to report being created/released
Fear that move from EDR-LIS will become indefinite?
If the LIS is so dangerous why are they putting several hundred more students in the building?
What would ADMN look like in a School within a School?
Ladysmith Primary Group Notes Concerns:
6/7 at secondary is a concern
Disruption of student learning
Larger class sizes
K-5 configuration
Cost of new building
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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Question: Plan does have funding from the Ministry - not accurate. Is the funding in place for sure? From Thought stream
6/7
Peer Pressure
Uncertainty of funding guarantee
Managing negative attitude to change
Lack of enrichment opportunities General Checklist: Here are the benefits.
Closing Primary and Intermediate and building a new school Assumption: If you do close schools, there will more students in classes and less teachers. Appendix F: To go over what has been submitted. A timeline which shows you what the plan is in order of years. Your Kindergarten child will be in Grade Ten.
What is missing?
Grade Six in secondary. Class sizes are larger. Grade Six students with 14/15 year olds. Peer
pressure too early.
Concerned that the Board is putting 10 year olds with 18 year olds. Reality of our community is
that 10 year olds may be placed in this setting without skills to manage these pressures.
Different schedules won’t address the issues. Build a super school, K-7, make it dual track, but
protect the 10 year olds.
I am okay with that. I am confident that my son can handle that. I am excited about the things
he will be able to do. The resources offered; lots of opportunities in the proposed configuration.
Question: future growth of Ladysmith. Has the plan brought in consideration for growth? What
happens if we do exceed capacity? Discussion regarding projections to 2030.
o based on Baragar o Coffee table numbers are different than what has been proposed
Frame that has been delivered except for Cedar and Ladysmith. After three years of analysis,
the best programming model for our students. Fifty years at Davis Road had K-7. Our primary
children will have to change schools three times-K-3, 4-5 LI, 6-7 high school. Many changes.
Worst EDI results in the district. 30% vulnerability, higher than 2002-2003. All three schools will
be at capacity. One elementary of 500 on a 4 acre site. Provincial guidelines require 7 acres.
Track will disappear and the community depends on this. How much of the community plan
was studied? Will be at 550 on that site.
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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600 community members took part in the community plan in 2008. We want walkable
communities. This brings all of our students to a single road. Here we have the police station
and fire truck and 1500 students on the same street.
Suggesting to K-7 Schools in Ladysmith. One for continuity, health and safety, and reflection of
the community plan. These haven’t been considered in this proposal.
K-7 would make way more sense than sending my children to the secondary in grade 6. I do NOT
want my two kids to go to this school. A lot of parents want this. The kids are my future.
Question: The plan to move the 6/7 to the secondary… is that the plan for the whole district?
Question: It isn’t education wise?
Trustee: Issue that we are facing is that the secondary school does not have enough students. If
numbers are not increased, we are going to lose programs that we now have. IE Red Seal Chef;
trades. Part of this plan is to get more kids into the high school. Part of the 6/7 shift, and the
Cedar shift would funnel students to Ladysmith. May not be educationally sound if students are
not added to the population.
Cedar High School - increasing enrolment. Sacrificing Cedar students to improve the population
here. Start the programs here, make the Red Seal Program and Trades an Academy instead of
bringing younger students here.
High School can have experiences if they come in earlier. I don’t think we are ready to make a
decision. There needs to be more consultation. Huge majority are against this plan. We need
another year of consultation. There are many suggestions out there. Focus in on things that will
make this great. Not just budget, there is a greater community here. School district announced
the changes in the last six months… it is too fast. Time needed. Consultation process over a
year, one that has everybody’s input. Have we looked at this as much as we should have?
90% of the people of Ladysmith are against this.
My child’s education is all that concerns me. I look at her potential. The children who just
graduated had to do correspondence; some had to go to private school to get the courses
needed. I want the experience of a vibrant school. If they are already pulling programs, am I
taking my daughter to Nanaimo for enrichment? As soon as possible, get the educational
opportunities up. Other scenarios are needed. Where will the education level be in five years,
not in ten years. Decreasing enrolments - will my children have less opportunities?
We need to make the secondary school a more attractive option. We are losing students to
private schools. If this becomes a 6/7 school, I will be pulling my children. There are two
educations you get at school.
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
13
It is causing our students to grow up too quickly. DARE materials will be presented in Grade 5
and the students would have to deal with issues these issues the next year.
A K-7 School is a good system. You learn a lot of things in Grade 8. Why would you want to have
them learn these things in grade 6. I would pull my kids from this district! We still want a small
town.
If the Board thinks the numbers will go up with 6/7 transfer, people will move out and the
numbers won’t be going up.
Once LS was thriving. This school has no athletic program any more. That push has gone. The
kids are leaving this area because there isn’t guidance for these activities. They are going to
academies in Nanaimo because they are not being offered here.
Opportunities offered 5-7 years ago are gone.
Other ideas and options (Ladysmith Primary):
How is it possible to build while children are on site?
Trustee: Parents will have input into the plans, consultation period. It takes time to build. Once
the funding arrives, it can take 3-5 years.
Facilities
How does construction look? If the plan is approved on June 26, the district would ask for
expansion of Ladysmith Primary. Experts will help to determine how to accomplish that. Add
on or replace. Impact on the school is part of the process. For example, Wellington
construction will build the new block first and then demolish the old block. We want to
minimize the disruption. 35 renovations have been done in our district. The process must be
done first.
Question: If Davis Road closes, will they be bused. Four and five year olds will be asked to walk?
Is there discussion around this?
Policy states that K 1 have to walk within 4 kilometres. Davis Road is about 3.6 k from Ladysmith
Primary. Within the walk distance. Sometimes there is courtesy spaces on buses. There have
been times that the Board has provisioned for buses for a period of time.
The dip is a difficult walk. Not everyone can afford a car.
Questions: Renovations to the school for 6/7. Twelve classrooms surplus in the school. 6/7 will
fill five or six rooms. We came up with a couple of ideas. Segregation planning has not been
done. An Architect, a school based planning committee, and the district would work together to
design the 6.7 concept in the school.
Summary of Consultation Feedback from the Ladysmith Zone: June 17, 2013
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Bring in Academies and post-secondary offers. Connect with VIU to see if there are credits. Get kids coming back here because it is special. We need something that shows that we are different from other schools.
Biological station, sciences
Soccer academy as we have an all-weather field
Horticulture
Streams, environmental program
First Nations as part of our identity. Visual Art, Environment, Carving totems, canoes
We have a strong ART environment in this community.
General enrichment to draw the students back into the community. Not streaming in younger students.
Time is needed to connect to existing Academies and VIU
Trustee : Remember you can send your ideas in.
Fostering leaders for sports programs at the secondary school. We remembered all of the
programs, basketball, rugby and soccer- people wanted to come to Ladysmith. Many coaches
have retired.
General Comments:
Question: Are there adult programs at this school? Used to be Adult Ed.
No information provided.
Congestion on this street. One street is not enough for everyone to converge here. As a first responder, one big building is a target. Entire community in one place at one time. Logistical nightmare.
If there is an emergency, you will have 1400 parents trying to get to the building. ie: Earthquake. Now they are spread out.
Winter driving conditions because of the hill.
Ladysmith Primary Group’s discussion re Proposed 10-Year Plan
As a plan, it looks like it comes down to dollars and sense. It is what is best for the budget with the recommendations that have come forward. I know changes need to be made. Some of the ideas that have been put forward, like Grade 6/7’s is not best for kids.
I know our schools are old and need upgrade. I am okay with 2 K-7 schools. They just want to get the numbers up. Is it what is best for those Grade 6 and 7 students? Or is it for the budget?
The only areas of the district being hit are Ladysmith and Cedar. Why is just our side of the district that is hit? How does that make sense? Why are you punishing the Cedar community? Maybe it’s just about boundaries. Cedar is growing. Has the Board looked at the plans for Cedar?
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Concern about the students who will be caught in the transitional years- impact on their grades. How to create a positive environment for them? All of these kids will be impacted- construction, portables etc, when others will benefit later.
Doug Player, most of the growth in this area is of retirement age.
North Oyster building offered to Davis Road? Yes, it was proposed five years ago. Davis Road families did not accept this proposal. The parents may have a different perspective now. North Oyster wants to have a building that is full.
This would have to be part of a new process. This would be a suggestion.
North Oyster- Forest Kindergarten, Arts Program. I would enroll there. Davis Road has a version of Outdoor Kindergarten already.
Question: What is going to happen to the Primary School if funding for the Super School doesn’t get approved?
No money attached to this plan. The Board must seek and obtain funding.
Davis Road is over capacity. Usually schools are closed if under capacity.
Superschool: 560 students is over the recommendations for the optimum school size- 2-400 for elementary schools. Why would we put our children there and have no room for expansion? Where would we put this super school?
Met with Ladysmith Town Council. Map shows two places that could accommodate this larger building. Work with the city to acquire the site.
I am NOT in favour of this large school.
Question: Proposals have been submitted. On June 26, the Board will say yes to all or part of the plan. Will there be another consultation?
If we say yes to some things, they will go forward.
If we say no, we may need to seek information. If this results in school closures, we would have to go through this again.
June 26, close the chapter on Enhanced Facilities for Learning. In the fall, we will have to meet with parents and talk about options.
We have to listen to everybody.
Further consultation will start in the fall.
Question: 60 day consultation is required. Which schools are actually on closure timelines?
North Oyster and South Wellington and Ecole Davis Road
Two Ladysmith Schools would be a couple of years off
Question: If you were to close Davis Road, you would knock Davis Road off the reconstruction list. If we were to keep, Davis Road, move into LIS for a while, and rebuild it, then move LIS students into Davis Road and rebuild the other. I am okay with 6/7’s coming to the high school, so the end result for the next generation is good.
Summarize:
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Guaranteed funding
More students less teachers
Negative peer pressure
Different schedules at the school won’t work
Figures in data vs community numbers
Moves of students
Room for growth in Ladysmith
Safety and health concerns on the roads
K-7 schools better
6/7 in high school not appropriate
Add programs
Not ready to make a decision
More consultation needed
Town plan needs to be incorporated
Pride and great programming is not here any more. School was at the centre.
Make the high school more attractive
Concerns about the proposed plan/ would leave
Kids going elsewhere for their programming
Construction and schools
Busing for Davis Road students, particularly k/1
Health and Safety
Dollars and cents, not what is good for students. Maximizing capacity
6/7 with Grade 12 not appropriate
During construction, the impact on student learning
Innovative Ideas o VIU connection o Soccer o Marine Biology o Environment o Horticulture Programming
Ladysmith Secondary Notes
Overview of the rules for the evening
Overview of the handout, and how it affects Ladysmith Secondary School –
Read out top 5 concerns to group in attendance
How does one get a mark on the “list” of handout - how many people = one mark?
Key benefits – number of people who have indicated key benefit on thoughtstream
Add gr 6 and 7 – how will that help the senior grades .. Will funding be increased and how will
that be dispersed between grades … will classes be grades 6-12?
Inconsistent format of thoughtstream and information for “challenges”
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Grave concerns about Gr. 6 and 7 coming to high school. This is a critical turning point/age – it is
a testing period – in gr. 6/7 learning stage among peers – trying growing up. Most difficult age is
Gr. 7
Anxiety – interferes with learning
What resources are here to deal with vulnerability issues that arise.
What school psychologist resources are allocated to the high school? And how much
time/week?
What counselling resources and additional resources in the first year of transition?
Echoing concerns of 6’s and 7’s going into high school setting –
What research is going into moving 6’s and 7’s into high School
Optimal school size? What is it?
Funding for new school
No support for 6’s and 7’s
Looking at not agreeing with 6/7. What happens if you cannot afford private school? What
options do you have?
Concerned about availability of upper level courses … how does 6/7’s solve this problem.
How seriously did the decision makers consider sending Cedar Sec. students to LSS?
Echoing psychological impact of both young and older students
Where is the school board’s accountability for our children for academic achievement and
psychological issues?
Border community … living in Saltaire you can choose your school district. Families have choice,
given that school district is keeping K-7 / 8-12 configuration, and ‘incentivizing’ the high school
SD 68 considering ‘incentivizing’ the schools here?
Misinformation and a lack of information during consultation process … how is this going to
work .. logistics as to how it will work are lacking ..
How is the population going to be integrated at secondary?
The very fact that you have to put up walls to separate kids speaks to the difficulty of the
logistics of bringing students up to LSS …how is this going to work?
Concern about physically separated children
Past experience of attending a school that was too large and complex for younger students
Moving gr. 6/7s equates to isolation without one teacher trying to reach everything … no
French immersion support
Isolation refers to the 30 students
How would segregating a small group within a big school work? The behaviours are present in
the school.
The identity of the young children is critical at grade 6/7 .. developmentally inappropriate
identity to be a high school student when you are 10.
Concerned about transition of emotional students –10 yr old ..
What training is in place for the teachers dealing with the 6/7s … for the first time?
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If nothing happens … anxiety around if this high school fails ... what happens if children have to
be transferred to Nanaimo if LSS closes if nothing is done.
Inaction could lead to closure of LSS.
No specific plan has been articulated on how the gr. 6/7s are being integrated into LSS … no
vision of what the transition will look like
We don’t have enough specific info to be able to make an informed decision
Will LSS close if gr. 6/7 don’t come? There is a rumour being spread. This is swaying public
opinion. Who is spreading this rumour?
North Oyster not going to be part of the Ladysmith feeder schools anymore 20 K to Barsby –
only 10 k to LSS
Why not put a swim academy at LSS? If you have a good program people will come. Not just
from the south end, but from other areas around the district.
Concerned that the process is purely political. How do we know that the information is being
heard?
Will we be losing the Red Seal Chef because of lack of funding?
What is the long-term effect of declining enrolment on LSS?
Trustee discussed some concerns around funding and population
Adding 6/7s doesn’t solve the problems of how to offer senior academic programs ... How can
we boost the high school population - # of children in Ladysmith is not increasing.
Love the community and don’t want to have to go to another community.
Ladysmith is a fantastic community ... we don’t feel like we are part of the Nanaimo-Ladysmith
school district. What can be done to preserve our schools and our community? Maybe
combine Ladysmith with Cowichan district and leave Nanaimo to fend for themselves. What can
be done to preserve our schools and our community?
A parent who just moved is concerned about 6/7s having to move to highschool believes she will
have to move
Young families may not want to come to Ladysmith based schools ...
What will happen when high school is full?
The current model in Ladysmith isn’t working. Intermediate kids not currently building
empathy. The possibility of going to the high school is exciting in that students would have the
opportunity to build empathy skills. Good prep for transition necessary ...
May be tough for some kids but there are character building opportunities ...
Need to put something that makes sense at the LIS site
Isolation at Gr 4-7 not a good thing.
Some parts of the plan are a good thing … more resources, expanding programs, positive role
modeling, mentorship,
Chose to return to Ladysmith because of the school system
Moving 64 students from elem to sec school doesn’t add up to numbers posted – does not
create a longevity plan
Does not see the District is looking out for the needs of their child (concerned parent)
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Need for girls in gr 6/7 to be in a positive environment
High school students don’t need to be mentors – need opportunity to experiment, swear,
smoke, etc. be teenagers … They shouldn’t be ad hoc babysitters of gr 6/7s. They need to go
through their own journey.
Why are North Oyster and Cedar students being transferred to Nanaimo schools instead of
Ladysmith?
Frustrating because there are NO ANSWERS! Tough as a parent to support with no certainties.
Would like specific information to help parents make informed choices
Children growing up too fast because they’re influenced by older students
Nanaimo/Chemainus should come to Ladysmith – why can’t this happen?
Projected enrolments should determine #’s of schools. How many schools can our population
support?
How is education funded? How is funding translated into the resources we have? Concerned
about the courses offered at LSS?
What alternate solutions are there to this plan and our declining #s?
Projections are best guesses…
Polarization is happening in Ladysmith ... having French Immersion in the community is
polarizing the community further …
We need a plan for all the people who are afraid to speak up ... need to consider the greater
good of the community not just the loudest voice.
Lack of understanding why a separate Aboriginal school – increases the segregation …
Can we make LSS a destination school?
How can we get more kids in gr. 8-12 that would keep the school alive and address everyone’s
needs. Make LSS a target school!
LSS could become a destination for fine arts – eg drama / dance)
Tremendous shop program / here is strong … this could be a great attraction … why don’t we
build on this? Increase the trades programs.
LSS as a destination school needs to start at the “K” level.
Likes the middle school system – and could adapt the model here…
The school can do things for the community .. community based projects.. Schools need to look
at what the community needs and learn enroute during the projects. … Community Gardens,
skateboard park, etc.
North Oyster Elementary Notes Concerns:
Closing a functioning building
Too much too quickly
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Part of a larger Ladysmith Community
Disruption of student learning Have a functional building – main point – should not be closing
N.O. Primary evacuation for the airport, secondary evacuation point for Cowichan Valley Regional District
Majority of building from 1991
$213,000 to run, by closing we’d lose a $150 000 grant and – could cost more money to keep it empty, don’t know that there is a lot of money to be saved by closing the building
What would the arts program look like at Cedar – N.O. school has everything that would be needed at Cedar for the Art Program without being renovated: pond, aquarium, hatching chicks and duck equipment, kiln, pottery wheel, equipped with band room and instruments etc.. (see submitted brochure)
- Would like to propose that the Art program planned for Cedar be implemented and piloted at N.O. as they have all the equipment – and then expand to other local schools
- N. O. has 12 classrooms available, leaving one classroom for band/programs - enrichment ideas – nature kindergarten or agricultural programs in the school - school has capacity of 294 but only has 85 - N.O. is the only other gov’t building outside of the fire hall in N.O. - - Designated disaster centre - E.Q kiosk - not many alternative to meet – it is the centre of our community for meeting/gathering - 8 minutes from the South end of Ladysmith, proposed 2500 (proposed city lots) housing
development near N.O. - present fields and playground are the only public fields in the community
doesn’t make sense that N.O. students to Nanaimo when Ladysmith Sec. has space
N.O. has always fed into Ladysmith – want to remain a Ladysmith feeder school - Barsby is 20 km. away – this is ridiculous, extra-curricular activities would be lost with N.O.
students bussing to Barsby - timeline is too short – no time for us to prepare our students and teachers for closure –
teachers won’t have a chance to say good bye - Board meeting is on the last day of school – it is disrespectful to close in this manner- that
other schools who have in the past have had the time. - not a consultation with each individual school proposed to close– are there going to be
individual school consultations - making decision based on Thoughtstream and point form has no emotion - the timeframe 60 day consultation was changed – June 26 is after – thought it would be
June 23 - schools that are closing are not given individual consultations - children at N.O. in K-2 will have 4 different schools to attend
(4 schools in 4 years, 5 schools … ) - students will move into a worse facility
10 yr. plan relies on closing renovating and opening schools without assurance of Gov’t that money will be available
- N.O. school is old (100 yrs) and is worth preserving – the building is not that old, but the history is worth preserving
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Demographic (85 students) – short sighted, new housing, developments underway - super school plan – not liked – likes diversity – epidemics – all kids in one high school not
good - travel costs increasing - not a funding issue lack of optimal size - will future school closures get individual consultations? - the plan should be introduced and then individual school consultations, not the entire
district - 60-day process – too quick - funding – no Ministry funding in place for the foreseeable future – direct information from
the ministry - The district needs to go back and make a 10 yr. plan based on there being no funding
available from the Ministry – make a plan that requires no extra funding - N.O. is seismically sound
optimal size not as important as staff and programs that are in place - community is so important to N.O. Generations want to give back to the school - K-7 model – lots of pluses on this model: a lot of flexibility in the model for special needs
children to get opportunities to be leaders and get extra attention and be with students that are more are appropriate to them. Also flexibility for students of younger grades to be challenged with higher learning levels within the school. Parents feel there is less bullying and there is more opportunity for mentorship, more opportunities for siblings to attend the same school.
- daughter has been in a split grade every year – split grades are not a negative – it has not been a bad thing
- Gr. 7’s role model for younger students – Gr. 7’s very caring about K students, stewardship and leadership opportunities - buddy systems developed are great, family groupings within the school, teaches respect and guidance
- special needs students have a better chance in a smaller school - limited choice in the proposed model – must go to a school of 500 - 500 students in an elementary school may not be optimal – want to see evidence, criteria
used for optimal sized school? – where is the evidence - no room for growth in the proposed model – portables may be needed - students come to N.O. from out of catchment - they are attracted to the N.O. nurturing
environment - financial constraints acknowledged, but the school is a meaningful part of the community - South Wellington – lots of industry it is the one thing that is not industry - Possibility of a French Immersion school at N.O. – in addition to Davis Rd. - What is a draw to my community without a school? – consider the impact on all of us (now
draw, property values will drop, still pay school taxes (with no school in our community). - Waterloo already closed – smaller community schools getting closed - Kindergarten students don’t know where they will be attending in September (1 of 3) - taking away community schools – takes away opportunities for people to interact and social
skills
technology in schools – a big influence and now no community school – lack of interaction in their own community
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- This window is too small to effectively reflect on and assimilate this information. All the information being collected cannot be assimilated in such a short time – 60 days too short
- People are angry about it - district changed the consultant’s timeline – thought it would be 2 yrs. - People/community feeling disrespected and not acknowledged - PAC paid for naturalist to come in – pond design used for science/reading
originally – goodwill of the community to start the school – water supply to school crosses private land and relies on community goodwill offering – “turn off the water” - amenities and right of way need to be investigated
- N.O. is seismically sound - bring South Wellington students to N.O. – instead of paying for seismic upgrade there - SW – has funding for seismic upgrading
- cost of transportation has not been specified - cost savings need to itemized - Will a larger school mean better resources/access to resources/opportunities for students?
- ratio - larger schools will have more potential for problems - too big a group to have young children with older teens - not just total number but age group mixes need to be considered/analyzed - portables – students will be moved to larger/over-capacity schools that will require
portables - 73/300 students in catchment attend N.O. – 141 don’t attend public schools – (private,
home or First Nations school) -
Summary/Main Points: North Oyster Group 1. A fully-functional building: (ideas to increase the capacity)
has all the equipment and amenities in place for enrichment programs (arts, nature), without any renovations needing to happen
because this school has these resources – suggested that N.O. pilot the arts program before implementing at other schools
has many rooms and has space
possibility to have French immersion
PAC has brought in programs in the past that could still continue (ie. Naturalist) 2. The building is the only community focal point:
for emergencies, for meeting place, for public resources (playground, fields)
potential to fill the school with proposed housing
what is N.O. without a school? 3. Financial considerations:
small community grant would be lost – would not save much by closing school 4. N.O. feeder school to Barsby
too far – 20 km away - travel and bussing – extra-curricular opportunities?
desire to continue to feed into LSS
too many transitions – these are detrimental to children’s educational progress 5. Better learning environment:
smaller school more opportunities for mentorship K-7 school
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- K-7 model – better model – lots of flexibility, split grades can be a positive, leadership opportunities for students, buddy system, special needs students – better in smaller school
- people did not more there intending for students to move to so many different schools - like diversity - super school plan – not liked – optimal school size not as important as staff and
programs that are in place - would like information that supports that larger schools are better educationally - don’t like the 500 students in an elementary school - define optimal size? Who defined optimal size? Where did this come from? - total numbers and mixes of students need to be analyzed
6. Consultation Process
- timeline too short: - can’t prepare students – no opportunity for closure - Ks don’t know where going - consultation process rushed - feel this is disrespectful - individual school consultations – would like this - process of the plan seems to be changing - many community members not aware of the process (inc. Thoughtstream) - all the information being collected cannot be assimilated in such a short time - children will have 4 different schools in4 years, 5 schools in 7 years
7. Concerns about legal ramifications if the school is to close – ie. Water and other goodwill.
Proposed 10-Year Enhanced Facilities Learning Plan Notes
-nowhere in the plan are there any references made to research.
-most of the rational is missing research to back it up.
-would like to have some research on 6-12
-would like to hear the pros and cons and hear how it's worked in the past at other schools.
-it would have been beneficial in terms of the pedagogical reasons
-what is the larger vision?
-what are some options? The process is backwards. The town should have been able to get together
in the beginning before the plan was developed.
-was there a process with other options developed? No, admin were involved
-why were teachers not involved in the process? NDTA executive were involved
-at what point was the municipality consulted? Town was only contacted about population
-is there a plan what happens to the building and property? Details?
-has there been any consultation with the First Nations? Invited but did not respond
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-no other Sec. schools have 6-12. Is Ladysmith the model? Considerations are different because of
the population. Principal indicated broad community support for the plan.
-is the Board aware of the work that Dr. Player did for Qualicum? He recommended against moving
6-7 into the high school. He referenced research saying it was a bad idea.
-giving one option and then asking if they are for or against is splitting the community. The biggest
pro is that they are getting a new school. It's not guaranteed so it doesn't feel on the level.
-Ministry has indicated that their only funding is for seismic upgrading not new schools.
-there are enrolment issues at LSS but there are other things they can do to boost the enrolment
instead of adding 6-7
-suggestion-swimming academy, French immersion - lure students back from private schools - ask
"why did they go to private school?"
-most private schools are K-12 so it's not the configuration that's luring them.
-some people are not opposed to 6-7 at LSS.
-changes need to be made-difficult emotionally.
-important to see beyond the buildings to what happens in the buildings.
-what will we do after the changes happen as a community? how do we move forward?
-concerned with the quality of teachers-comments from teachers are at elementary level, students
not taught critical thinking - a 6-12 configuration will make it worse.
-how is this considered their consultations? We keep asking questions but no answers are given.
-with two weeks to go they don't know how the board will be able to go through all the questions.
Doesn't seem like it’s an open consultation; should have preceded the plan.
-parents don't have all the information to make suggestions - don't know what will work.
-are these consultations only good up to 2015? The schools that are set for closure are being
overwhelmed by the other schools that are not affected now and there is no chance to focus on the
schools that are set for immediate closure.
-Cowichan had 10 months of consultation and we're having it rushed in 60 days.
-it's difficult to accept a 10-year plan when what happens immediately will affect have an affect on
the future and the outcome will be based on what happens now - per-determined.
-long-term plan provides an outline.
-facilities/education plan this has been going on for 10 years already. If we don't have a plan we
won't get funded.
-at least 5 plans in the last 12 years and none of them have been followed through.
-between 2008-2010 there was a committee to talk about the facilities in Ladysmith. Was that plan
looked at? Dr. Player was given all this information for consideration.
-optimal school size - Dr. Player suggests a super school of 500+ students - for a population of this
size? Looking a the contradiction within the districts own documentation.
-researcher in Ontario using BC FSA Gr 4&7 information - Dr. Dhuey - talks about Gr. 6-7 in high
schools - K-8 learning is favoured
-wants to hear pros of the 6-12 model - why would it be beneficial?
-some students are excited. They will know the older students. Some of the teachers will be the
same. The will be consulting on how the transition the kids.
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-more people should be supportive? Lets see how good we can make it.
-does the board/staff know how the parents and students feel? Thoughtstream
- believes the senior staff should lead in selling them
-what kind of surveys have been done on how everyone will react to the changes. Would like more
info on the positives.
-positives - mentoring, extra-curricular, music, science labs - great opportunities
-transitions (multiple) - negative impact with each transition - too many
-school within a school model - closed doors -removed from rest of school - feeling of isolation for
students and staff
-SW and NO will close during summer holidays - some schools will go to 3 schools in 3 years - those
schools are in consultation now - fast tracked
-shouldn't be school against school
-parents should give their kids more credit - they might rise to the occasion - be positive about the
plan
-NO children want to remain Ladysmith - too many transitions - have a good facility - but have to go
to Barsby
-trustees might change
-everyone has valid concerns
-gov't will not give $ unless we reduce capacity - formula developed in 2002
-not possible to accommodate all the good ideas that have come out
-if we put a plan together we will get top consideration. We must act now!
-what happens after next week’s vote? If things change? Will we have the opportunity to have
input in what happens afterwards?
-plans rarely get past the first year
-valuable in the district - community, family,
-report doesn't have much detail - 60-day timeline is stressful and not productive.
-rushed nature gets parents reacting emotionally
-should have ongoing consultations and revisions and updated yearly - "living plan"
-review the plan of the plan thus far and that would influence what we do next - be open about it
-hasn't seen anyone talk about recovery/retaining enrolment - why are they leaving the district?
-what if the district hired a growth engineer? Could be significant value in bringing students into the
district.
-investing in different uses of technology in the classroom.
-EDR should be a case study - what makes people so happy to be at that school?
-what is the fairness? We get 60 days and NO and SW had a year
-the north end has two years to prepare for their consultations.
-plan doesn't talk about the students educational outcome - only about facilities
- foolish to consult on an "in principle" plan - difficult to buy into something that is not concrete
-feels like an empty plan motivated by the deficit
-community happens where people congregate.
- when change happens people react positively
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-staffing-classes capped at 30 - how will staffing be affected?
-lots of research on how to improve middle schools
-no research showing that middle school is better than elementary school