1The Bob and Rob Show Study GuideLesson 53date: Sept. 29, 2006file name: bobrob09-29-06file length: 20:31

Show notesAutumn, haiku poetry, and the phrasal verb rake up

Haiku"Along this road goes no one; This autumn evening."Basho

"In the cicadas cry, No sigh can foretell, How soon it must die."Basho

No one travels, Along this way but I, This autumn evening.Basho

First autumn morning: the mirror I stare into, shows my fathers face.Murakami Kijo

PoetryNatures first green is gold, Her hardest hue to hold. Her early leafs a flower; But only soan hour. Then leaf subsides to lraf. So Eden sank to grief, So dawn goes down to day.Nothing gold can stay.Robert Frost

Note: A great site devoted to Robert Frost (1874-1963) can be seen at http://www.ketzle.com/frost/He was an extremely influential poet and thinker of the last century.

Listener email1) very much and very well: when you check a these entries in a decent dictionary, youwill find about 18 different meanings and usages for each. Just try to distinguish them withset phrases such as thank you very much and Im doing well, thanks.

2) this is the treasure of Japan versus this is the treasure in Japan. In and of can betricky. The treasure of the former sentence may not be in Japan, but the latters treasure isdefinitely located in Japan. Another difference is one of artistic license as pointed out byBob. Again, if you check any good dictionary, you will find numerous entries with goodexamples for these two confusing but often interchangeable prepositions.

Both Sides of the Pond(US) panty-hose (UK) tights(US) run (UK) ladder (in tights)(US) fall (UK) autumn(US) sedan (UK) saloon (car)

2SongAutumn Girl ,by Snowball Johnnyhttp://www.podshow.com

Show transcriptOtherR & B music.

BobHi, it's the Bob and Rob Show. This is Bob.

RobAnd this is Rob.

BobAh, make sure everything is working here. It's recording.

RobOh, we're recording. Hey.

BobHey.

RobBob.

BobRob. We should say the date. Today is September....

RobThe 25th.

BobThe 25th, so, we're back at work now.

RobThat's right.

BobBack at work.

RobAfter a nice summer break.

BobHow was your break?

RobGood thank you. Very nice.

Bob

3You went back to the U.K.

RobJust for a few weeks, about three weeks, or so.

BobI had a really nice time is the U.S.

RobGood.

BobIt's fall now - a new season.

RobRight. Autumn is lovely.

BobDo you say, "autumn," or "fall"?

RobWe say, "autumn."

BobWe say both in North America.

RobOh really?

BobIn the U.S. we say, "autumn," or "fall." But anyway, this is the season where the daysrapidly get shorter, and cooler, and the nights get longer. And of course, as everyoneknows, it's traditionally - at least in the Northern climates - when most crops are harvested,and deciduous trees lose their leaves. Are you into Japanese Haiku1 Rob?

RobNot really. I like it, but I can't say that I am a big fan.

BobWould you be willing to read a few Haiku poems to the listeners of the Bob and Rob Show?

RobSure why not.

BobIt's autumn now, "fall" as we would say in America. Well Haiku's very nice because it talksabout the seasons often. In Haiku youre supposed to use a seasonal word - a way to letthe reader know what season it is. So, I thought it would be good, since it's autumn, that wecould read some Haiku.

RobYea, good idea.

4BobAs Basho the great Haiku poet said, "Along this road goes no one; This autumn evening."Can you think of a good Haiku poem for the season? As you know...

Rob(Coughing)

BobYou have a frog in your throat?

RobSorry. Ive got a sore throat.

BobAs you know, in a Haiku poem it's important to let the audience know what season it is.They often use seasonal words. Do you have a nice Haiku poem?

RobSure. I've got one here. It's "In the cicada's cry, No sign can foretell how soon it must die."

BobOh...deep. How do you pronounce...

Rob"Cicada," how do you pronounce it?

Bob We pronounce it "cicada."

RobAll right, yea, probably.

BobThat's the little bug that is very noisy in the summer here.

RobAnd it usually dies in the end of August, September, or mid September.

BobOh, so how soon it must die. Profound. Here is another one by Basho2, "No one travels.Along this way but I, this autumn evening."

RobVery nice.

BobKind of a bit of sadness, or loneliness in that.

RobRight. I've got another one Bob. This one's by Kiru Morikami3. And it goes like this, "Firstautumn morning; The mirror I stare into, shows my father's face." That's nice.

Bob

5That is nice. And you look old for your age, so that makes sense.

RobThat could be interpreted on different levels. They're very short poems, these JapaneseHaiku poems, but they're interesting.

BobTo me, it seems like what he's saying is, autumn is later in the year, and so it's later in yourlife. So the season here, autumn, is symbolizing his age and how he's getting older, like hisfather.

RobSo when he's looking in the mirror, he thinks he's seeing the same image of his father. He'sgrowing into his father?

BobOr, he's just getting old. So, since we're talking about poetry - one of my favorite poets - avery famous poet from the U.S., from New England. He wrote a lot about autumn; theleaves changing colors. I don't know if you know, but in New England it's very famous forthe foliage ...

RobYes, I am aware of that - very beautiful.

BobA lot of Robert Frost's poems were about the foliage. Here is one of his, "Nature's firstgreen is gold, Her hardest hue to hold. Her early leaf's a flower; But only so and hour. Thenleaf subsides to leaf. So Eden sank to grief, So dawn goes down today. Nothing gold canstay." - Robert Frost

RobWow.

BobGood luck listeners.

RobThat's quite difficult. Literature can be very difficult, I think, for any advanced learner ofEnglish.

BobSome important announcements. Since we've been away, we have a membership featureon our sight now.

RobYes, thank you for setting that up Bob.

BobYes. The first thing we should say is; the Podcast is still available and anyone can listen toit. But, we've had some interest in making transcripts available. We've basically set up thismembership, so that if your interested in receiving our transcripts, and more detailed studynotes ...

6RobYes, it's not just transcripts, there are a lot more detailed notes accompanying thetranscripts.

BobThen for three dollars a month you can become a member and you can sign up on oursight. Now, the reason we're charging three bucks a month; it takes along time to do thetranscripts, it's a lot of work, so, we just don't have time to do everything.

RobIt takes time.

BobBut, the Podcast itself is still free. If youre interested in the transcripts and study guide,then that's three dollars a month. A number of people have signed up, so pretty happyabout that. So Rob, if you were a non-native English speaker, would you become a Boband Rob Show member?

RobOh definitely.

BobYou would? You'd pay the three dollars a month; do you think that's too expensive?

RobFor three dollars a month, I would be getting four show notes a month.

BobNot show notes, study guides.

RobSorry. Study guides - very extensive - yes, call them extensive study guides with transcriptof what we're talking about, and saying on the show. Plus all the extra material that wasthere - I would think for three bucks, it's a bargain.

BobIt's a bargain4.

RobYea, it would make sense.

BobI hope everyone else feels that way. Some people might be a little mad that we're notposting show notes anymore.

RobWell, I think that they would have to take into consideration that the typing - the timeinvolved in typing up the show notes, and getting all the extra information that we get...

BobIt takes a lot, especially the transcriptions. And, having to listen to your voice over and overRob, it just drives me crazy.

7RobLikewise, Bob. We have a little glossary at the end as well - of the transcripts.

BobThe glossary's nice and just some extra notes about what we talk about.

RobI think it's quite a comprehensive little package, and well worth it for just three bucks amonth.

BobWe are. We're worth it. So Rob, it's been about eight weeks since we've done a show andwe've got quite a back log of listener email. I don't think we're going to be able to get to allof it today, but we'll try to get to as much of it as we can. So anyway, one email we havehere, and unfortunately I don't have his name, or, her name. They have questions aboutcountable and uncountable nouns and intransitive verbs. And, is there anyway to tell thedifference between the two, aside from memorizing lists? That's a good question. I can'tspend too much time on it on the show. But generally, looking at countable anduncountable nouns - as you know in English, uncountable nouns are for things that we can'treally count. For example, water or rice. Or, a lot of times it is used for abstract ideas, suchas; information, beauty, love. These are things that generally - it's not something that youcan count. The best way to learn these is actually to memorize the most frequently usedones. Other ones that you come across, you just have to look them up in a dictionary.

RobI think that's true. Exposure to the language is very important as well.

BobThere are some little things you can learn. For example; generally a and an, the indefinitearticles are usually not used with uncountable nouns. So you wouldn't say "a information."Here's a list of some common, easy to confuse, countable nouns: advice, equipment,garbage, information, luggage, progress, research, travel. And, with transitive5 andintransitive6 verbs - in English the way to tell, is by looking at the sentence. And, if it takesan object then it's transitive. And if it doesn't it's intransitive. So, if there's an object involved- a direct object - then it's transitive. And, unfortunately in English you can't tell from theverb form. In other languages - Japanese being one, you have different verbs. Forexample: to open would be Oku and Okuru - the transitive, intransitive you can tell by theform, but, you can't do that in English. You have to tell by the way it's used in a sentence.

RobIt's a bit more complicated in English.

BobYea, you have to look at the sentence. I hope that helps you a little bit, it's a big topic. Whatother emails do we have Rob?

RobWe had one from Nao, a couple from Nao, actually. One of the one's she asked about; shesometimes confuses "very much" and "very well."

BobI like it very much. I like it very well.

8RobYea, we wouldn't say the later. "I like something very much." You could use "well," with forexample; abilities. "She plays very well." You can also say "she plays very much." Thatmeans she plays the sport a lot. She plays it often. But "she plays it well" means, she'sgood at it. General rules in not being able to confuse them - it's quite difficult really.

BobYea, good luck Nao. She actually sent another email too. She said "I pronounce BBC with aJapanese accent." Did I do that, did I say BBshe?

RobMaybe you did.

BobSay BBC.

RobBBC.

BobMaybe, I said BBshe?

RobMaybe you've had a beer too many.

BobI don't know, maybe I've lived in Japan too long.

RobMaybe we should say "BBBBB"?

BobAnyway, Nao said, I used BBC with a Japanese accent. That's interesting, thanks fornoticing that, now I'll watch myself. What else do we have here?

RobWe have another pronunciation question from David. He asked about the differencebetween "schedule" and "schedule."

BobHow do you say it?

RobIn Britain it is actually "schedule."

BobOh, we say "schedule." In Canada they say "schedule" too.

RobOkay, so they use the British pronunciation. But of course, some British people do also say"schedule."

Bob

9Do they?

RobYes, but technically and officially the British pronunciation is "schedule."

BobI only hear that from Canadians.

RobRight. I think that's the same in Australia too.

BobSo do you say "order schedule," what is that?

RobAn order schedule; I'm really not sure what this refers to. If David said "it's in some kind ofnegotiation with a British lawyer." He heard the expression "order schedule," so, I'mwondering whether or not it might be some legal term...

BobI've never heard it before.

RobNeither have I, it might be some legal terminology.

BobLet's ignore it then. Sorry, David.

Rob"Order schedule," I'm not sure.

BobDelia Baker, Ms Baker wrote that on a prior show we talked about jumpsuit. And she said,"a jumpsuit is a one piece pant outfit that either zips up, or buttons down the front." Anexample would be a ski suit and a ladies business outfit. Just a little clarification on that.Thank you very much. Also, she said "rubbers refers to galoshes." We talked about"rubbers" can mean "condoms" - a slang term for condoms. But she said it can also refer togaloshes. That is true, Delia, but I haven't really heard the word in a long time. It's notrubbers as in galoshes - they're not that popular anymore. I don't see them very often, doyou? People wearing galoshes; the rubber shells over their shoes.

RobNo really, no.

BobI'm sure they're still around, but they're just not that popular.

RobThey're different to Wellington boots? Are they?

BobThey actually fit over your shoes.

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RobI see, so they are separate.

BobGaloshes fit over the shoe.

RobOkay, interesting. We also got something from Le Grand - I think that's correct. He wasasking how to avoid mixing up the use of, "of" and "in." Two prepositions of and in. Verytricky question.

BobThat's a month worth of shows.

RobBefore the show, Bob and I asked a few of our colleagues...colleagues with PhD's inlinguistics and applied linguistics, and they too came up with some good ideas.

BobWhat were the examples he used?

RobHe said "the heat of summer" or "the heat in summer" is one of them. Or, this is thetreasure of Japan; this is the treasure in Japan. Which one is correct? Well to be honest Ithink, as you mentioned Bob, that the use of, "of" - for example "the treasure of Japan,"might refer to a Japanese treasure which is not necessarily geographically situated inJapan.

BobThat's true.

RobIt could be anywhere in the world, for example; the treasures of Egypt, quite often in theBritish museum were plummeted7 a long time ago.

BobWhere the treasures in Japan are showing more - are specifying8 location.

RobI think so.

BobThat makes sense to me.

RobAnd perhaps another difference is one of literary style, or literary license9. For example,"the people of Japan"..... "the people in Japan."

BobOr even "the heat of summer." Hemingway's10 novel, The Snows Of Kilimanjaro. It justsounds more as something you'd use as a literary....

Rob

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For stylistic purposes "the heat in the summer months." It's much more colloquial to use"the heat in the summer." And of course, the "of" can also be substituted with thepossessive. For example, "the boots of Ann," can be changed into "Ann's boots." But, wecan't do that with in, that's another significant difference. We can't use possessive with asubstitute in preposition. But, difficult question and...

BobOur job is to confuse you further. I hope we've done our job11.

OtherLaughs

RobI'm sure we've succeeded.

BobBefore we wrap things up, there is one more email I wanted to read. This is from Alan. Alansaid, "great show, but, a minor suggestion. Please, please, please Bob; could you pleasenot cut Rob off12 so often?"

RobHey great comment. Thank you very much.

BobDo you think I cut you off a lot?

RobConstantly, Bob, but I don't mind. Youre the witty one and...

BobWell, I don't know if I'm witty. I think I'm just talkative. Anyway Rob, I want to apologizepublicly.

RobThank you very much Bob, but it's okay.

BobSo, Both Sides Of The Pond - I think we've already talked about that. Autumn and fall.

RobYes, there's autumn and fall.

BobWhat else do we have for today?

RobJust a few others, which I'm afraid aren't really related to fall. Ladies often wear - when itgets a bit cooler in autumn, ladies often start wearing tights.

BobPantyhose?

Rob

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Right, yea. In autumn the temperature goes down a bit, so they start wearing tights. InAmerica...

BobWe say tights too, but tights are generally something for; exercising, or sports, or dance.Where pantyhose would be something you wear under a dress.

RobIn Britain tights are just for under a dress.

BobWe say "pantyhose."

RobIf you get a ladder in your tights, that's not good news.

BobExcuse me.

RobIf you get a ladder in your tights.

BobOh, a run; like a tear. We say, "a run." Do you often get ladders in your tights?

RobEvery week, Bob. Another one about cars; we haven't dealt with cars for a long time. Asaloon...

BobThat's a place where you drink - in a cowboy movie.

RobIn the old west, yea. The Wild West13

BobIn the old west.

RobThe Wild West.

BobWe'd say, "sedan."

RobOkay, sedan. Right.

BobS-E-D-A-N You say, "saloon"?

RobWe say, "saloon." We don't say, "sedan."

13

BobThat's funny.

RobIt's British/English.

BobWell thanks for getting those Rob.

RobNo problems Bob.

BobWe should also thank people for the donations.

RobOf course.

BobWe've received some really nice donations, and we really appreciate it.

RobYes, very kind of you.

BobThank you very much. And also remember, another way you can contribute, is if yourinterested in getting the transcripts and the detailed study guide, please sign up. If you don'tfeel comfortable using PayPal, the online payment service, then email us and we can figureout a another way to do it. So, our song for today is called Autumn Girl by Snowball Johnny.We got the song from podshow.com, so go there if you want to learn more about the song.Johnny sings: It's the time of year again, when the leaves are falling down / And in theevening, the moon shows it golden crown.

RobWow.

BobThere's some nice fiddle14 in this song.

RobThere's no dangerous content that our listeners should be aware of.

BobThere isn't; the last song had a bit of an edge15.

RobIndeed.

BobIt's good to be back Rob.

RobIt is.

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BobThis one was a bit rough. I feel a bit rusty16.

RobYou feel a bit rusty. Well, I think we're both still a bit tired. I'm still suffering from jet lag17.It's a twelve-hour flight from the U.K. Last night I slept just two hours.

BobReally. Ah man, that's too bad. All right everyone we'll talk with you again next week. Bye.

RobBye, bye.

OtherSong: This is the time of year again, the leaves are falling down / And in the evening themoon shows it's golden crown / She walks with me, the girl with henna18 in her hair / Watchthe world unfold / She's with me, the girl with henna in her hair / Watch them great cloudsswirl / She's with me, she's my autumn girl / With inspiration nature gives your body soul /And when the dark comes down, the musky smell of dewy grass / She walk's with me, thegirl with henna in her hair / We watch the world unfold / She's with me, the girl with henna inher hair / Watch them great clouds swirl / When she's with me, my autumn girl / Autumngirl / It's the time of year again, when the leaves are falling down / And in the evening, themoon wears a golden crown / She walk's with me, a girl with henna in her hair / Watch themgreat clouds swirl / She's with me, a girl with henna in her hair / Watch the world unfold / Aslong as she's with me, my autumn girl / My autumn girl / Autumn girl.

Transcript glossary

Haiku 1 = traditional Japanese poetryBasho 2 = Basho Matsuo is known as the first great poet in the history of haikai (and haiku).He too, wrote poems using jokes and plays upon words in his early stages, as they were infashion, but began to attach importance to the role of thought in haikai (especially in hokku)from around 1680. See more at http://www.big.or.jp/~loupe/links/ehisto/ebasho.shtml.Kiru Morikami 3 = Learn more about Haiku if youre interested at the following sitehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haikubargain 4 = another way to say bargain is , reasonable, or its a good deal.transitive 5 = verbs that need a direct object, so : Bob broke the microphone is a sentencewith a transitive verb (broke).intransitive 6 = verbs that have no direct object, so : the bus arrived is a sentence with anintransitive verb (arrived). We can have nouns after these verbs, but they are not directobjects. Therefore, the bus arrived early, or the bus arrived at 9 oclock.plummeted 7 = Sorry but I (Rob) made a big mistake here, may be it had something to dowith my lack of sleep! To plummet means to fall down steeply at great speed. What Imeant to say was plunder which means to take something by force and illegally. Thisword is usually used with pillage which has a similar meaning to plunder.specifying 8 = to specify something is to mention it exactly eg be sure to specify everyimportant point.literary license 9 = writers are allowed to use words in certain ways that are not traditionallyused in other non-artistic contexts.

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Hemingway 10 = Ernest Miller Hemingway was born on July 21, 1899, in Oak Park, Illinois.His literary work one of the most influential in the 20th century. He shot and killed himselfthe morning of July 2, 1961.I hope we've done our job 11 - an example of the cruel sense of English humor known assarcasm.Cut off 12 = a phrasal verb meaning to interrupt someone.The Wild West 13 = refers to most of Americas early history but in particularly the period oflawlessness in the US after the end of the American Civil War.fiddle 14 = this is a slang and colloquial way to say violin.a bit of an edge 15 = if a blade has a bit of an edge it is sharper. Another way to use theterm is as a metaphor. Here Bob meant that the last song was of a rather adult nature,which had strong content that may offend some people.rusty 16 = out of shape, not used to something.jet lag 17 = when our bodies suffer from traveling through different time zones. Find out howto get over it if you are traveling long distances at http://www.nojetlag.com/jetlag3.htmlhenna18= a reddish-brown dye obtained from leaves of the henna plant and usedespecially on hair

Extension and Review Study*note: we encourage you to respond to the questions and readings by posting on the new discussion board(Login using your Bob and Rob Show membership username and password)http://englishcaster.com/discussionboard/

1/ Bob and Rob talked about autumn. What is fall like in your country? Do you like thisseason? Why or why not? What is your favourite season? (note the GB spelling here?)

2/ Haiku is a form of Japanese poetry. What are some famous poems from your country?Are they easy to translate into English? Who is your favourite poet and why?

Basho Matsuo (1644 ~ 1694)

3/ Have you ever written any literature? What theme would you like to write about? Do youfeel that you would be able to write creatively in English?