j

THE CROWN CALLS:

PROF. DR. ANDREW HQWSON MURRAY: s,s,

XD. BY THE P.P.:

Dr. Murray, what qualifications do you hold..

I hold the Chair of Philosophy, University of

Cape Town, I do chiefly politics, theory in my work at the University.

What qualifications do you hold.. I have a

Doctor's degree and D. Litt. degree of the University

of Oxford, M.A. from the University of Stellenbosch,

And the doctor's degree. University of Oxford.

What subject.. Political Philosophy,

Now, where are you stationed at the moment..

University of Cape Town,

Are you the Professor in Political Philosophy.. Yes. For how long have you held that position, I have

been there since 1937.

i n \

- 4524 -

About twenty years? Just under twenty years. Prior to your being stationed at Cape Town University,

where w^rc you? I was at the University of the Witwatersrand a lecturer in The Department of Philosophy.

Now, what subjects do you lecture in? Chiefly Political Philosophy and Political Theory.

Now, in the course of your duties, is it necessary for you to study the doctrines of Communism? I have to lecture on Communism. I have done so since about 1932 when I started this work and I have been working on it since that time.

During all that period, have you done research work in the subject of Communism? Fairly consistently all the time.

Now what ar^ the main authorities normally used to describe Communism? Karl Marx, Frederich Engels, Lenin -Vladimir Lenin - Stalin and today Mao-tse-Tung, I would say.

Mao-ts^-Tung, is he a Chinese Philosopher? And leader of the Communist action in China.

Now, will you describe to the Court what Communism is? Communism is a doctrine and a policy - it is a doctrine which criticises the Western Social system, called the capitalist system, it criticises it crom the economic point of view chiefly, and it bases its criticism on the philosophy of dialectic materialism.

m ^ i "*

Did you say dialectical materialism? Yes. What is meant by dialectical materialism? Dialectic

materialism is a philosophy which believes that the law which governs the universe is a so-called dialectic law, that is a law of opposites, that everything that happens happens through

- its opposite, and then a synthesis takes place. It believes that the basis of things is matter - matter in motion and that this matter in motion which moves everything is worked I through its opposites. There are three laws of opposition and ; that is then applied, more particularly by Marx, to the present historical .../...

A

- 4525 -

historical situation in the West particularly, capitalist countries. If I raay give an example of the dialectic, as Marx explained it, he suggests that we have at the present moment a capitalist or "bourgeois society which must produce its opposite, the proletariat or non-"possessing classes, and these two will clash. The proletariat must destroy the capitalist class and in doing so destroy itself and in that v/ay produce the classless society at which the Communist ultimately aims, I could say more about that, of course.

Are these three rules, or whatever you call them, are they known as the thesis, the antithesis and the synthesis? Th. t is the process of the dialectic law.

Y7hat are the criticisms levelled by Communists against the socialist economic system- by Communists against the capitalist economic system? The Communist argues that in the capitalist economic system property is owned privately and the worker no longer has control of the commodity which he produces. The worker is paid for his labour energy, for the energy he spends on work and that is all, because the capitalist owners control the commodity which is produced and therefore controls the marketing of the commodity. The outcome of that is that the capitalist owner is able to make the surplus profit, that is a profit which goes beyond his legitimate expenses of production, wear and tear, replacement, wages and what is necessary for his own cost of living. The result of that is he has a surplus profit which he can re-invest and the result of that is that there is an accumulation of profit - of capital rather, in the hands of the capitalist class. Neces-sarily that class becomes richer and richer and the rich ones push out the poor ones so the capitalist class becomes smaller and xhe working class ever larger. The result of that is that the people who own the instruments of production, who have the capital, have all the social power in their hands so that the socialistic power of the country, according to Marx

- 4526 -

gets into the hands of an ever smaller group and an increasing number of the population is left as workers without any politi-cal pow«=r or social power. The criticism is that private property means political power.

Now, does this involve an antagonism between the worker and the person who owns the means of x.roduction? Marx's argument is - the Communist argument is that inevitably, there-fore, there must develop a class struggle between the worker who has no say in political power and the owner who has - the small group of owners who have the power and this struggle is called the class struggle.

•.That is the effect on the internal state? Internally the class struggle means that the owning group dig themselves into the institutions of the state, they entrench themselves in Parliament, the army, the police, the education, the church, etc. and thcr~pPo1etrariat h..ve ~co fi^ht to get their own power, so that internally there is a class struggle and the develop-ment of a police state and a state of fascism'.

And externally, outside the borders of the country, what is the effect of capitalism there? Externally the capitalism has developed at the present moment into a stage of imperialism, that is where a country invests money in foreign parts and controls the foreign parts, so that as a result of that,

national boundaries are not really important an more. They have really ceased te exist and you get the fact that the whole world is divided int.,' two camps according to Communism, namely the war-mongering imperialist camp and the other camp, the peace-loving Socialist Communist camp.

Now, you mentioned surplus profits when you dealt with the criticism of capitalism. Now, what is meant by surplus profit on Marx's theory? Marx analysed the capitalist system and the use of capital according to his own philosophical background, and he argued that the means of production had been

4527-taken from the control of the people who produce, namely the workers, and were placed in the hands of the owning class, the capitalist class - that is the modern development. In the olden days the man who produced a thing could also sell this thing, he controlled the full commodity. At the present stage of development of the industrial system, the owner of the factory controls the commodity which was produced. He pays the wage earner merely a living wage, the rest of his income - the profit he makes from selling commodities, he can keep for himself and in that way he is able to accumulate what Marx calls "surplus profit" which he is able to re-invest so as to accumu-late more surplus profit.

Now, you also mentioned the class struggle, amongst what classes is this struggle supposed to be? — There are three classes really, the capitalist owning class, the small capitalist and the working class and as the capitalists make more money and get smaller in number according to Marx, the small capitalist is pushed out into the ranks of the working class and so ultimately the struggle in the state must come or does come between the so-called proletariat class, the working class, and the capi-talist class. Ultimately there is a struggle between two parties in the State.

Now, you also said that according to Marx's theory, the ens

capitalist state becomes a police of a fascist state, what is meant by fascism and a police state? — By fascism is meant that stage in this account of the developments in the Western States, in which the owning classes who owns the instruments of , ^ production and the money, get control of the institutions of the af

r L

State, like Parliament, the Police, the Army, the Church, Edu-cation and use that power to entrench themselves to keep the working classes out of control of the State, out of any say in the running of the State.

Now, what do they mean when they say - what do the Com-munists mean when they say "The State has become Fascist" or

is/

f u ^ J %

- 4528 -is a "police State"? It means that a small group in the State controls the whole State to the exclusion of large sections of the population.

And how do they say can this state of things be continued, that capitalist keeps control of the property and keeps control of the Government as against the working class? Their argu-ment is that the capitalist will be forced into a stronger entrenchment in the State, till untimately the proletariat is so strong that it will walk over the capitalists, the capitalists will try to defend themselves and then the proletariat revolu-tion must come.

Yes, but before the proletariat revolution comes, how do they look upon the organs of the State in a Capitalist State? - - • What are the purpose of the organs of the State as regards the worker? As regards the worker, according to Marx, at that stage the organs of a capitalist State are there to oppress the

worker and to promote the interests of the class which controls the organs of the State.

And how do the capitalist government want to retain the loosition, and how do the workers want to change the position? The capitalist government digs itself into the institutions of the State, armed and otherwise, and the workers, according to Marx, feel that the only thing they can do is to create a violent revolution, to create conditions for a violent revolution, so that ultimately the powers will be taken out of the hands of the capitalists and the workers will take control.

You mentioned imperialism, that is when you dealt with the external position of capitalism, you said that that was imperialism. TThat is meant by imperialism, what is the Marxist meaning attached to the word "imperialism"? The theory is that capitalism has now reached its highest stage of develop-ment when property chiefly becomes money or finance holdings and imperialism has developed because investments are made fom the home country into other territories which are conquered by the home country and which then are exploited in the same way

4529 as the capitalist exploits the worker in the home-country. Imperialism really means the exploitation of colonial countries1

in favour of the capitalist who controls the state machinery at home.

You mentioned the conquering of colonies, what does Marxist theory mean "by the word "colonialism"? — Hy Colonialism Marx refers to the policy which develops in the course of capitalist development "by which one country owns and controls territory away from its own territory, dominates that terri-tory and exploits the people of that territory in favour of its own development - exploits and oppresses the people of that territory.

And you say the Marxist theory says that the people of the colonies are oppressed, are exploited rather? — That is right.

Now, what is meant hy colonial oppression and colonial exploitation? What is Marx's theory on that point? -•- The Marxist theory there is that the capital which is invested in the colony is controlled hy the capitalist of the home-country, he exploits the people because the people of the colony work on a wage-level, he would say on an existence level of pay - they do not control the commodities which they produce and the profits of the invest-ment goes to the capitalist in tho homo-country,,

Now, what is the iffeet of capitalism on the interna-tional sphere according to C omiirvinist tneory? — Well, capita-lism has reached that stage where it has gone "beyond the nation-al boundaries, capital is invested in all countries all over the world and that means the capitalis~ power is no longer merely national but international. Capitalism has destroyed national boundaries and, indeed, nationality.

And the result of colonialism as between nations? — The result of colonialism as between rations is + iat - I don't quite understand that question. I would say the result of colonialism

between/.„,...

- 4530 -between nations is that the world is divided into two spheres, the capitalist exploiting groupd and the group of colnnial oppressed people, which are fighting for their liberation and so forth.

What is the policy of Marxism towards imperialism? Marx, or rather Lenin, taught that imperialism has to disappear. It is the last culminating point of capitalism and it will disappear in the revolution as the colonial countries, the semi-dependent countries, fight for their liberation to destroy the capitalist exploitation and oppression.

How must that be accomplished? That can be accomplished by a revolution which is international. The working people of the world are united, thex'e are no national boundaries and countries in which socialism has been established will help the colonies and semi-dependent countries in which the prole-tariat is still fighting for their liberties.

What according to the Communist theory, would be the future of capitalism in the State itself? Capitalism will disappear, the worker will take over, he will get hold of the institutions of the State, but it is not enough to merely get hold of the institutions of t h e S t a t e , they must b e destroyed. The worker must control the instruments of production and

then gradually after that period of dictatorship, the St§te will wither away.

What will happen to the capitalist society? The capital-ist society will be destroyed and it is suggested that the capitalist will have no vote in the new diecatorship. I think the phrase is 'the oppressor will be oppressed1.

What do Communists mean by the word 'State'? The Communist argument is that originally there wasn't a State -very early - but when Certain conditions developed, and classes developed, the State was developed to keep order -to keep discipline and order and peace within the territory and that gradually the one section got hold of the machinery of the State in order to exploit and oppress the other section.

- 4531 -but the; state is to the Communist an instrument of oppression.

Now, how do Communists want to change this system in capitalist states? The Communists believe that the system will be changed only by revolution, that the possessing classes won't surrender their property holdings and power peacefully -Marx had one or two pet exceptions to that theory - but we needn't worry about that, and that there will be a revolution in which th- worker will win and will have to create an inter-mediate stage called the dictatorship of the proletariat. The worker must not only seize the institutions of the State, but he must reform the institutions of the State and he must take eontrcl of all instruments of production and the running of the State.

Can a revolution be avoided, according to Communism? Marx, writing before the development of imperialism - my date is the seventies of the last century - said that it may be that in England and America the change-over might come without a revolution. Lenin interpreted Marx as saying quite clearly that the revolution must be a violent revolution. Stalin took up t that position and maintained it till his death and that is the 1 position maintained in stanuard Marxist-Leninist doctrine. I

Now, what would be the position between capitalist States and Communists States? International?

International? The modern Marxist analysis of the j

international position is that the world is divided into two classes, the capitalists, the war-mongering group or camp and the socialist, communist - the peace-loving camp which consists of the IT7 S. S. R. and the Peoples' Democracies, China and so forth, and that these two are opposed eamps.

And would you tell the Courx what those two camps consist s

of, what countries? More or less the war-mongering camps -according to this theory, consist of America - the United States of America, etc* with the countries in which economics are still free and there is no centralized centrol by the

- 4532 -

Government, such as the countries of T'estern Europe, including ffn

Spain, I presume, England, Great Britain, India and so forth. The other countries belonging to the peace-loving group are the Soviet Union, the six States Czecho-Slovakia, Bulgaria, Hungary, Poland, Albania and China.

Now, the chief State in the capitalist camp is the United States you say? They direct most of their Communism against

'the United States. And the chief state in the Communist world is the Soviet

Union? That is right. And what is the role the Societ Union is to play in this «

controversy between the two sections in the world? All along it has been taught that Russia is the home-land of the revolu-tion and that she must support the revolution wherever possible She must guarantee success where it has had a success and she .must help the countries in which there is still an oppressed proletariat fighting for their own liberty against the bourgeois class. She remains the home-land of the revolution and supports the tendency to liberation in other countries.

Is that view still held today? That view was expressed by Stalin just before his death, it was expressed by Mao-tse-Tung at Stalin's funeral, it was expressed by the Cominform while it existed - if I had notes, there are several other modern statesmen expressing that as the policy.

Now, did Stalin describe the objective of Communist policy as regards the up-surge of Communism in other countries?

Stalin described the objective of the Communist Party in 1927, I think, and it was reprinted and agreed to in 1947 > when he said the objective of the Communist Party was to assist the growth of Communism in countries, especially semi-dependent and colonial countries - not only that, other countries - where capitalism still held sway and where the people were not free.

Does the Comonform mention anything about it? The

- 4533 -

Cominform made an explicit statement along the same lines, j And Mao-tse—Tung? Mao-tse-Tung at the time of Stalin's

funeral expressed the view that the Peoples' Chin, would co-operate with Russia., Russia would be the head of the co-opera-tion and w -uld promote - would hei r people in countries which

\ " -

had h i n lihtarpt ri. You said earlier on in your evidence that the change-over

must be by revolution. Now, what does the Communist revolution envisage about private property? It wants to abolish private ownership of instruments of production.

And what is the substitution? It proposes to put the control of productive property into the hands of the workers, so that the commodities can go to the workers. It wants a worker's control of propertyo

And what do they preach in connection with the present position of land in capitalist countries? They regard land as a monopoly held by, again smaller groups - a small group -and used for the exploitation and the oppression of the working classes.

In what respect do they want to change this system? The ownership of land? They want to have communal holdings for land and want to put the administration of landed property under the workers,

And what would be the position then with the landed property held by others? That would be expropriated, the workers would control all land and there would be communal holdings.

Now, what do they teach in regard to the present position of industrial production in capitalist countries? Industrial production, according to the Communists, is again in the h .nds of the owning class, it is a monopoly, it gives the owner., social and political power and is used by him for his own purposes, for his own profits, to oppress and exploit the working class.

- 4534 -

Has private control of property any political significance according to Communism? Private control of property has this significance that it means a pr.perty holding becomes power, it gives the holder of the property social and politi-cal power. That means one class in the State has xjower and the other class has not and that means class-struggle, and that means exploitation of the worker and it is that which the Communists want to upset.

And what is the effect of private control of property as between private individuals, what is it called? What is

/

that question again? The effect of private control of property as between the

private owners? The effect of that is that property is con-centrated, increasingly concentrated into the hands of a few smaller groups while the small property owner is pushed out, disowned and he has to join the proletariat class, that is the theory of the concentration of capital.

How does private ownership of means of production Effect wages according to the Communist theory? Private ownership means that wages are paid out, not on amount of commodity pro-duced, but the wage earner is paid on the basis of subsistance leve. He gets enough to live, to replenish his energies for the next day's work, but he does not share in the real value of the commodity which he produces, that real value is control-led by the owner of the factory.

Now, what changes are envisaged by Communists in this respect? The Communist proposes to destroy the private holding of a property, to put property under the control of the workers and thereby to create a classless society, thereby to remove oppression and exploitation.

And what would happen to the present owners of the means of production, rather as regards their ownership to the means of production? They would be expropriated; they would not have any properties; they would join the classless

- 4535 -

society. Sometimes it is saicl they would not have a vote in the new society.

Now, what do Communists teach about banks and financial institutions? The Coinmunist theory is that the financial institutions like banks and trust and finance companies are monopolies nowadays which again give power into the hands of the holders of the finance and prevent the people from having the power.

Would that include political power? That involves economic power and economic power for the Communist is politi-cal power.

And how do they intend to change the present system of banks and financial institutions? They suggest - they pro-pose to put banks - that is in the intermediate stage, to have a central National Bank, working under the control of the workers for the workers and they want to abolish rent as being unearned increment so that everybody has to work for his living. The banks will be nationalised, they will be a single State Bank, under the control of the workers.

And you used the word 'Nationalised' has that any signifi-cance as between socialise - is there any distinction between nationalism and socialism in that respect - nationalisation and socialisation? I think the Communist idea of nationali-sing the bank into a single institution is an intermediate

proposal during the dictatorship of the proletariat, before the money system has disappeared. I think the difference be-tween nationalisation and socialisation in the Communist sence, is this that in nationalisation the State remains and takes control of certain functions and rather creates a State monopoly which is that the Communist ultimately wants to avoid.

Now, what do the Communists teach in regard tj the

commercial system in capitalist countries? The Communist

- 4536 -

teaching is that the commercial system is based on free trade, of course, but has developed into monopolies, cartels, trusts, and holding bodies which has really destroyed the freedom of xhe free trade and has put economic control and so political control again into the hands of the people who hold the finance.

Now, are there any political implications regarding the commercial system in capitalist countries, externally and internally? Internally, th~ argument is that the commercial system, as I said, has become a series of monopolies, it has destroyed free trade, it has put the power into the hands of a small group, so that internally commerce also tends to develop a fascist element in the State - to make the State into a Police State - to the oppression of the worker. Externa^ , the commercial system has developed into imperialism and that has developed into large international finance holding groups, dominating groups, so that internationally the world is divided into that one camp, namely the capitalistic camp, consisting of large finance bodied and on the other hand the peace-loving Communist camp.

Now, do they advocate any changes with regard to the capitalist economic system? They propose abolishing the capitalist economic system by expropriating the property, by putting instruments of production under the control of the worker and in that way destroying the class struggle and having a classless society. They want to destroy the institutions of the State, which are associated with the commercial system, in order to create a classless society.

Do they teach anything about the private control of the means of transport? They want to socialise means of transport because also transport is a social service and they feel they ought to - it ought not to be used as a monopoly as it is now, so they propose expropriating means of transport and putting it under workers' control.

What is the attitude in regard to the administration of law?

-4537- "

They regard the Law and the Polic^ as instruments of the capitalist section in the State, and they want to institute Peoples' Courts and I think they call the Peoples' Militia and the appointments - the officers should be appointed and elected by the people.

."/hat is the attitude towards the police and the army? The Police and the Army must also become a Peoples' Police and a Peoples' Army, not to be controlled by a section which controls the State, but must belong to the people.

How should public authorities he appointed in the Communist State according to their theory? By election and appointment by the people.

Now, do Communists criticise the Parliamentary system of today - in vogue in capitalist countries? Very much so.

How do they do that? They argue that the Parliamentary system has failed into the hands of the ruling capitalist clique; that the cabinet is a committee of the capitalist class; that the Parliament uses its power to entrench the interests of the owning classes - of the property owing classes; that the workers are not represented in Parliament or have no say in the decisions of Parliament and th;.t Parliament is an instru-ment in a State becoming fascist and the present position of Parliament make of the State a Police State, j Now, how do they want to counteract the Parliamentary system in countries where that is in sway? They propose agitation and propaganda, strikes, boycott, intra-parliamentary action as well as extr .-parliamentary action and to establish \ what they call a dual-authority in the State besides that of Parliament.

What is meant by dual-authority, or what is usually under-stood by dual-authority? By dual-authority they understand the growth or creation in the State of a body which will have power and influence besides that of Parliament and the people will then take instructions from this body and act aecording

- 4538 -

to its will besides that of Parliamentary authority. I Now, what according to Communist theory is the status of

the workers in capitalist countries? The Communists argue that the worker is not treated as an end in itself in capitalist countries, he is used merely as an energy nr.chine; he merely sell his labour energy; that he is in fact a slave; he belongs to the proletariat class, which is the non-owing class, and he is simply used for his labour energy which he can sell to the capitalist.

Has this any international significance - the status of the worker in capitalist countries? Internationally the argument is that the capitalist development has broken down national boundaries, that the worker is - that the interests of the worker are the same over the whole world and that this particular development of capitalism has meant th .t th^ world is divided into two groups. It means that the worker should organise internationally in order to ^chieve wnat he wants.

You say 'achieve what he wants', does that mean that he » wants a change? For the Communist he wants a revolution and the intermediate stage of a dictatorship of the proletariat.

Nov/, how must they prepare for this change? T h e y must prepare for this change by organising themselves into units, nat inal and international - it must be a right organisation -the word militant is used - and the countries in which Communism has been successful must help the workers' organisations in the country in which the workers' organisations have not yet been successful in seizing power.

Howjs the wage system to be changed in the Communist country as against the capitalist country? At the present moment in a capitalist country wages are calculated er paid, if you like, on the selling of labour energy and not in relation to the value of the commodity produced. For the Com-munist, the worker will control the instruments of production and the wages will be calculated on the basis of - from each

- 4539 -

according to his ability to each according to his needs. Do they at any stage want to retain the present position,

the Communists? Do they want to retain the present position in capitalist countries? Sometimes they preach the doctrine of peaceful co-existence - occasionally - but it does not fit in with their basix doctrine, basic teaching.

We are coming to peaceful co-existe-nce. Is peaceful co-existence a word used as between persons in a State? No, it is used by them as a relationship between States.

Now, you have mentioned this change, what will be the ultimate result of this change that they envisage? The result will be that there will be a revolutionary period and then a period of dictatorship of the proletariat during which private pr-perty will be exproriated and then gradually, as a result of that, the State will wither away and the workers will control property and production in the State.

This term that you used 'dictatorship of the proletariat' in the intervening stage, what do you mean by that? Marx

taught,^as^did many of the others, that it was not enough for the working class to seize h.ld of the institutions of the capi-talist state as it exists today and to use them. Marx argued, / and so did Lenin, against the reform but said that there would have to be a revolution; the institutions of the State would have to be destroyed and the workers would have for an inter-mediate period, have to institute a sheer dictatorship in which they would make the changes they had to make to destroy the old capitalist state.

No-..-, what methods do Communists prescribe in attempting to obtain this change? •• This change .from a capitalist to a communist society? They propose a method which creates social unrest and unsettlement in the1 countries concerned. They propose intra-parliamentary and actions through parliament and actions outside of parliament; they propose co-operation

- 4540 -

with Trade Unions, public bodies like women's societies and so forth; they propose co-operation with the liberation movement tj

in the various semi-dependent and dependent colonial countries; they propose taking the Chinese Peoples' Republic, the U. S. S. E and peoples' democracies as their model to held up to the people in the countries where the agitation goes on; they propose co-operating with Trade Unions; they propose getting help as far as possible from outside countries tohelp them in their agitation. That is the t/pe of suggestion that has been prescribed.

You said previously that the changeoever must be by revolution, now what do they teach in regard to this revolution, how is it to come about? They regard the revolution as inevitable. It is in the nature of things, it is imminent, because capitalism has now reached the stage of its dissolution - imperialism - and because it is desirable. They argue that the revolution must be a violent revolution and after the revolution there will Dc tne intervening stage of thelictator-ship of the proletariat. ~~

Do they use certain slogans at certain times, the Communists? The Communist policy there is to adapt their slogans to

the situation in the country in which they are working. What do you actually mean by that? They study the needs

of a country and then they develp their slogans to agitate against the present situation and they use a method called 1

, 'aesopism', in order to get their ideas across in a way which is ermissible in that particular country, in words that are I permissible in that particular country. \

What is meant by 'aesopism' ? When Lenin was in exile, he continued agitation in Germany I think it was, and he had to write what he had to say in a roundabout style, which is called aesopism, and which has to be interpreted according to the original meaning of the writer. It is a roundabout and illusory style in order to get ideas in which would not be

- 4541 -

permissible in the country if expressed in straightforward language.

You mentioned certain slogans should suit the conditions of the country at the time - now are these slogans be in-, changed when the conditions change? All the time.

Can you give an illustration? Yes. BY THE COURT :

Have you in mindconditions prevailing in this country -in any country? I could give half a dozen if I had my notes with me. BY THE P.P. ;

T7e will return to that point later on. You mentioned peaceful co-existence just now, what do they mean by peaceful co-existence? The phrase peaceful co-existence means -raises the question whether the States organised on a communist basis can co-exist in the world together with States on a capitalist basis. The Communist position there is that it may be possible for such co-existence to exist temporarily, but r Lenin and Stalin both said that co-existence - that the Commu-nist State could not co-exist for any long period with | capitalist states.

Do modern Communist leaders preach co-existence? They preach it on occasion.

Did Lenin say anything about it? Lenin quite frankly said that co-existence was not possible, that ultimately the one would have t. triumph and the party that would triumph would be the Communist Party.

And Stalin, did he say anything about peaceful co-existence? Stalin made the same position. On one occasion Stalin

said to some journalist that there could be peaceful co-existence but he was presumably speaking for the Government and n^t for the Party. He repeatedly said from 1922 on that peaceful_co-existence - there could not be peaceful co-existence and thfvT^uTtimately the Communist system would hr.ve to win and

- 4542 -

prevail and he went further and said that Russia would support the Communist agitation right along against capitalist regime.

Now, how must one interpret the peaceful co-existence preached by Communists? I think oat must interpret it as a matter of tactics. Under 'certain conditions it is suitable to preach peaceful co-existence but there is no place for the

theory of peaceful co-existence in Communist philosophy - the dialectic - and leaders of Communism have right from the beginning up to today denied or said that peaceful co-existence is not feasible.

Now, talking about slogans again, the term non-violence, has that any significance in Communist phraseology? That is a slogan I could hav- mentioned a bit earlier. At tim^s, under certain conditions, Communists have preached non-violence, but the Communist doctrine in the master works is that violence is

justified provided it pi-omotes the success of the revolution. '.That was the Comintern? The Comintern is a short name

for the third Communist International which was established by Lenin in 1919 after the second International had failed. He drew up a programme of action for the Communist Parties overthe world.

Is that an abbreviation - Comintern? Third Co.u unist International.

Do Communists make use of any international organisations for the propagation of Communism? Yes, all along the line.

Can you mention any? They use the r. P. T. U. - World Federation of Trade Unions; they use the W. P. C. - World Peace Congress; they use the International Federation of Democratic Women and they use the^International YotTfln Federa-tion. There are others. BY THE COURT s

For what purpose did you say? For propagandising Communist doctrine.

f]

- 4543 -

BY THE P.P. :

You have mentioned the World Peace Congress and others, now what is the World Peace Congress? The W.P.C. is an international movement working over the world promoting, accor-ding to its profession, the idea of world peace. It was estab-lished in about 1952 or 1953 but it came under Communist control from the beginning and it has supported Communist policy.

Is there anything mentioned about it in the Cominform? It supported the Communist attitude to the Korean war. It has criticised N.A.T.O. It spreads the anti-germ war agita-tion against America accusing America of germ warfare. There are several other examples in the resolutions before the Court which show that it supported Societ policy.

You have seen some of the papers which form exhibits in this case? Yes.

Now, what is the Cominform? The cominform was a body established by the Communist Party of nine countries in 1947 for the purpose of exchanging experience and information in the interests of Communism. That is what they said their purpos was.

Did they issue a declaration after the meeting? They

issued a declaration after they had been formed, the countries which formed the Cominform were the Communist Parties in Prance, Italy, Albania, Hungary, Rumania, Bulgaria, Poland, Szecho-Slovakia and Russia. They issued a statement on their purpose and the statement was violently anti-war mongering imperialism and anti- United States.

Is the word Cominform also an abbreviation? Yes, for Communist Informati n Bureau, I believe.

Now, did they also issue a communique at a later meeting? Yes, they issued directives, some of which were adopted by

— — • 1 1 •—— ~

the W.P.C. and a communique and also a journal. What is the name of this journal? "For the Peoples'

Democracy for a Lasting Peace".

- 4544 -

BY THE COURT : What is the title that journal issued by the Cominform? The title is "The Peoples' Freedom for a Lasting Peace'.

I said 'Democracy', I am sorry. BY THE P.P. :

Now, did the W.P.C. work in with the Cominform? Continually.

Now, what is the real policy of the Cominform? The policy they adopted was to promote the ideas of world peace according to Soviet interpretation all over the world.

How did the W.P.C. grow? The Cominform was started in 1947, in 1948 a Congress of Intellectuals was held in Poland and that Congress organised two peace conferences in 1949? one in Paris and one in Prague. The Paris Peace Conference appointed a bureau and that bureau became the World Peace Congress.

Is tlie W.P.C. active in outside countries, countries other than those mentioned by the Cominform? The W.P.C. operates in the United States, in Southern America, in Asia, in Australia, I believe, in Africa and in the whole of Western Europe.

Now, what was the purpose of the W.P.C. so far, what

has it been doing? The W.P.C. so far has almost consistently made propaganda for world peace along Soviet lines and has, as I said before, reported Soviet Policy in international J

affairs. Now, can you mention any instances? -•• I think you said

something about the United States' actions in Korea? Yes, the W.P.C. criticised the United Nations actions in Korea, they objected to re-armament in Western Germany, re-armament in Japan, they raised the movement criticising America on the

ground that America was executing a germ war; they opposed the production and the transport of armaments in Y/estern Europe.

You mentioned the organisation of N.A.T.O., there is

- 4545 -

another one, South-East Asia Treaty Organisation, did they say anything about that? They opposed S.E.A.T.O. policy.

Did they say anything about the admission of China to U.N.O.? They strongly supported the admission of China into j U.N.O.

Was anything said about Formosa? — They opposed any foreign interference into any Asiatic affairs, especially Formosa and Korea.

How does the W.P.C. work? Does it work in co-operation with other bodies? The W.P.C. has worked in with the Cominform, it receiver! instructions from the Cominform, and it has received directives straight from the Kremlin. The W.P.C. has floated campaigns supporting the Communist policy inter-nationally and the W.P.C. has interpreted peace always in terms of the Soviet interpretation of Peace.

Has the W.P.C. launched any campaign? They have launched various campaigns, I have mentioned certain resolutions they have taken which went over into campaigns, the campaign against the American use of germ-warfare is one for example. BY THE COURT s

So, according to you, the policy of the W.P.C. is the promotion of Communism? A great deal of it is, yes. A very great deal of it is. BY THE P.P. : You mentioned the Stockholm Peace Appeal? I didn't mention it, but I can mention it now. The Stockholm Peace Appeal organised by the W.P.C.

Did it launch any campaign in China for instance? It launched a campaign in China to collect money to buy ships for the Communist cause in China against the other side and it collected a vast sum to buy several aeroplanes to support the Communist armies against the other armies in China. COURT ADJOURNS. COURT RESUMES.

- 4546 -

APPEARANCES AS BEFORE. BY MR. COAKER :

Before we resume. Sir, may I say it has been indicated to me that a number of the Accused at the back have been unable to hear cither my le a rned friend or the Witness. I would ask Your Worship to appeal to both my learned friend and the Witness, if possible, to raise their voices a little bit. THE P.P. CONTINUES s

Now, the next o rganisa tion we are going to deal with . . is the World Federation of Trade Unions. What is the World 1

Federation of Trade Unions? The World Federation of Trade Unions is an international body to which a certain number of Trade Unions belong. It started as a body to which most Trade Unions of the world belonged, but it came under Communist control at a certain time and some trade unions left the body. At the present moment chiefly trade unions supporting the Soviet policy belong to the W.F.T.U.

And what has been its policy up to now? Its policy up to now has been fairly consistently to support Soviet policy internationally.

Did the World Federation of Trade Unions co-operate with the World Peace Council? There was a good deal of co-operation between the W.P.C. and the W.F.T.U.

Did the W.F.T.U. issue any instructions as far as you know? The World Federation of Trade Unions several times issued instructions and the W.P.C. identified itself with those instructions and carried them out. J

Do you know any of those instructions? I should like to refer to notes there. I could reply at a later stage. The information is there, but I should like to m „ke sure.

We will give you an opportunity during the adjournment to look at your notes. Now, what is understood by the term "National^Liberc^^oriJ^o^^h^t"? In the Colonies and dependent countries movements have arisen to liberate the

- 4547 -

colony or the country from the other group, the imperialist power, and this movement has been used by Communist organisations and generally the term "Liberatory Movement" refers to that element in the liberatory movement of the colonies and semi-dependent countries.

Does it f .rm part of Communist doctrine, or-Communist tac-tics? K,.rl Marx already pointed out that for a Communist revolution, it was necessary that the revolution should also be supported in colonies and semi-dependent countries. Lenin, when he worked out the tacties in fuller detail, uses the term Libera-tory Movement and says that Communist parties must support liberatory movements to help break down imperialism and capital-istic power. That has been the policy consistently. The use of the Communist agitation in connection with liberatory move-ments in Asia has been call-d "Attacking capitalism in the rear" and right up to the end Stalin h..s said that liberatory movements over the world must be supported.

Supported by whom? 3y Russia and by all Communist countries - countries where Communism h'.s been victorious.

Wh .t is the position about liberatory movements in other countries, by liberatory movement in one country? Wherever the liberatory movement has not yet achieved its purpose of liberation, the instruction is that other countries must support each other in order to overthrow the capitalist control 1 of that country.

What has been the position since Stalin's death? Or shall I put it to you this way, did Stalin mention anything about it?

Stalin supported that motion right to the end. And since Stalin's death? The policy has been suppor-

ted by Boria, by Mao-tse-Tung, who s^id it was part of the * policy to support liberatory movements in other countries. \

Now, do you know of any liberatory movements in Communist \ countries? No.

And in capitalist countries? In the colonies and semi- j

- 4548 -

dependent colonies, yes, semi-dependent countries. Now, does the Cominform mention anything about the libera-

tion movement in colonics and semi-depenaent countries? The Cominform to^k up as its policy that it would support liberatory movements in all countries where people were still oppreSH^d

v - _ _ —

and exploited. ~ _ How do Communists regard South Africa? They regard

South Africa as a semi-colonial country in this way that the working classes, especially the non-European, is in a position of colonial population exploited by the capitalist section.

Now, did you have a look at certain documents handed to you by the Crown? Yes.

And were you asked to give an opinion on these documents? Yes. New, in giving an opinion of a document, what method of

analysis did you a dopt? Te find out whether a document is Communist, one applies four tests. The first is, you see if a document teaches direct Communism by quotations from the masters Stalin, Lenin and so forth, Marx. The second is one tries to see whether the document paraphrases the Communist statements. The third is, one sees whether the policy supported by the document is what is called non-deviation. That is whether it supports Soviet policy internationally and then, finally, there is always a test of aesopism. One h. s to read the words careiully to See whether they have a superficial meaning, the facial meaning or whether they are intended to convey something more; those are the four tests which guide the reading of documents.

The first document I am going to give you is an extra copy of Exhibit C. 292, it is a document dated the 15th of June, 1953 issued by the Springbok Legion and apparently signed by one Jack Hodgson, National Secretary. The heading is "Urgent and important"? I have read this document.

- 4549 -

What is your opinion of that document? There is no direct Communism in it, but it has a Communist background, it contains Communist propaganda and I think its reference to the South African Government is facistic and in its reference to the ideals of democracy which is purely what I would c^ll Communist jargon. The general outlook of the document is Communist and if it is associated with known Communist organi-sations, if it could be associated with known Communist Orga-nisations, I would regard it as Communist but on the face of it there is nothing directly Communistic. BY MR. ROSENBERG s

Your Worship, the Witness has given evidence on a document and your Worship will remember he stated four tests and my learned friend has put the document to him and the Witness has answered in general terms, would the Witness indicate what part of the document is ... (Inaudible. Mr. Rosenberg not speaking directly into the microphone)... BY THE P.P. :

Would you do that please? In the first place, I would point out that the second paragraph reads "The process of fascism has reached a stage in our unhappy country where it is becoming increasingly difficulty for an organisation.... etc." ...."Of the limited character of the Legion, an Ex-Service Organisation to make any effective impact on the situation". One knows that the accusation of fascism is often used, generally used by Communistsagainst capitalist | countries. The second statement is this, the second paragraph. "The aims and objects of the Legion are aspirations for ex-soldiers, economial, political and social are now inexplicably tied up with a state of democracy in South Africa, increasingly over the last few years the emphasis of our efforts have had to be directed towards the struggle for democracy." Democracy

X.

in Western countries means one thing. In Communist language

- 4550 -

it cieans another thing and if this document can be shown to be associated with Communist organisations, in any other way which I don't know, that sentence could be regarded as meaning democracy in the sense of a Peoples' Democracy in the satellite states. I may say that I can produce a statement by the well-known ex-secretary of the Cominterm which has said that the Governments of the Peoples' Democracy are the same as that of the Soviet Union. The next sentence falls into line. "It is necessary now for us to recognise and accept the fact that the issue before our country and ourselves is that of total democracy or total fascism and to consider how to make the maximum contribution possible to a victory for total democracy". The next sentence is the same as what one reads in a great deal of Communist literature. "The strategic need in the struggle against Fascism is to mobilise the people in active opposition to the fascists and their programme and to prepare the people for decisive action to defeat uhe fascists". I'll read the

next sentence too. It contains a vocabulary of the same sort. "In the situation which obtains in South Africa, where the non-White peoples are being effectively mobilised by the African National Congress and the South African Indian Congress, the need is for a national organisation among Whites capable of mobili-sing all who are prepared to wage a militant extra-parliamentary struggle for democracy in South Africa and who will accept the non-White organisations and people as allies". Two paragraphs lower, the s> ntenco is also - at least, agrees with Communist tactics, expressed Communist tactics. "To meet this need at the moment there are the Springbok Legion, the Congress of Democrats and the Democratic League. None of these for various reasons is national in the sense that Branches are established throughout the country. All of them are acting independently. There is a duplication of effort. All of them are relatively weak. It is obvious that it is in the interest of all that we should come together in one organisation," Militant centra-

- 4551 -

lisation is a very important part in Communist tactics. I think that is all, your Worship. BY MR. ROSENBERG :

Coulcl you do that with the other documents coming to you, just the salient points, please. BY THE P.P. :

The next document is C. 294, headed "Springbok Legion, National Conference 1953, Resolution". Could you please express an opinion on this document? Again there is no direct quotation from Marx or any Communist master in this document, the document is full of words used in Communist documents

• ~~

generally and have a Communistic meaning given to them. The impression one gets is that the underlying outlook is Communist I would refer to the following, in line 3, the word "Oppression" occurs. The Sentence reads : "The Annual Conference of the Springbok Legion reiterates xorofound opposition to the Nationalist Government to it practices of race discrimination and oppression and to the anti-democratic paths which it is pursuing towards a fully fledged Nationalist dictatorship". The term "oppression" there deserves attention. "Fully fledged dictatorship" deserves attention. In line 5 the word "fascism" again occurs and in line 6 the term "uncompromising democratic olicy". This is a slogan now used by Communists in satellite countries and by Mao-tse-Tung. The sentence reads: "It records its conviction that through the co-operation of the ii.N.C., the S.A.I.C. and the South African Congress of Democrats all based on programmes of full and unrestricted democracies, the present trend can be revers-d and victory for the democratic cause be secured". In line 7, the phrase occurs, "Opponents of reaction". That

"> - •

phrase is a straight Communist phrase. The sentence reads, "It proclaims its belief that the present trend to fascism can only be reversed by an uncompromisingly democratic policy ' advocated and worked for by all opponents of reaction united

- 4552 -

without regard to race or colour". The phrase "opponents of reaction", of course, is an integral part of Communist doctrine and tactics. Line 10 to 11, you again get the emphasis on "democratic" and the point is to see in what way the term must be applied. That is the position. BY THS COURT :

What are the .reactionary forces referred to by writers of Communism? Writers on Communism have argued that the tendency to socialism and the Communistic revolution is inevi-table but thct the people now in power - that is generally the capitalists or the property classes - resist the tendency to chance and revolution and it refers to them as the reactionary element. I may say Marx oriticised the Trade Unions on that point, he said Trade Unions could go so far and no further, they would not become revoluti nary but they would be reactionary and set the wheels of history back or something to that extent. By reactionary, the Marxists mean people who oppose the tendency to revolution. BY THE P.?. :

•fhat do they mean by the word "opponents"? The oppo-nents of reaction are the Communist people who promote the revolution against the reactionaries.

The next is a copy of Exhibit C. 284, "Congress of \ Democrats, Johannesburg, August, 1953? Notes for Speakers"?

This whole document seems to form part of Communist propa-ganda. The basis of the argument is that the present Government is moving towards full blooded fascism which is part of the Communist agitation against capitalist states and the sentence ... I'll read the sentence in a minute. The document uses the argument that this particular group], that is the Congress of Democrats, is a real democratic group and that what it stands for is the true democracy which falls in line with Communist tactics and there are tendencies in the document to encourage extra-parliamentary action. P ge 4, at tae bottom, "European

- 4553 -

political forces in South Africa are inclined to fix their eyes on Parliament as a place where changes will be planned if they are to come at all, but political change can only be brought about where the country and the Government and Parlia-ment respond to popular organised pressure in the country as a whole. This pressure must come not only from the recognised European opposition loarties but from even more important and powerful forces of organised non-Europeans". On age 6, "The Liberal Party advocates campaigning only by parliamentary constitutional moans.." - it has got 'unconstitutional' here -".. The Nats are steadily whittling away Parliament's powers and the constitutional rights of the individuals. This attitude rules out possibility of Liberals fully supporting the struggle of the vast bulk of people who have no parliamentary powers and can't campaign by constitutional means." I think that is the position. I have here a statement from the text, a statement made by Stalin about destroying parliamentarism and the bourgeois democracy. I do not know if that is relevant. It is merely to carry out the first point of criticism.

Read it please? The document presents the Government as moving increasingly to full-blooded fascism and that is a Communist position. Stalin wrote "This, as a matter of fact, explains the fact that the ruling classes in the capitalist countries are zealously destroying or nullifying the last VeS-

^ • *

tiges of parliamentarism and bourgeois democracy, which might be used by the working classes in its struggle against the oppressors. In fact, they are driving the Communists under-ground and resorting to open terrorist methods, in order to maintain their dictatorship". The quotation is from the ' Stalin's report at the C.P.F.U., 1934, page 920. /

The next is C. 52, "The Road to Liberty", by L. Bernstein. This document falls in line with the Communist interpreta-

tion of the situation in this country. The basic argument is that the forces of reaction must be fought and the document

- 4554 -

is aimed at the fascism in South Africa. BY MR. BERRANGE :

I don't know whether the Witness is giving evidence from notes, raading his notes, or whether he is giving evidence in the ordinary way. BY THE COURT :

Yes, I think it is apparent that the witness is now giving evidence ex tempore and not reading from the documents? Based on the documents and from the notes which I have made. I couldn't see the documents originally in Court, but I was presented with documents by the Crown and I h..d to make notes on them. BY THE COURT :

Have you got notes on the documents? There ar~ notes on these documents, but they refer to pages and lines. I could point out these. MR. BERRANGE :

I understand it to be a typed note made probably by the witness attached to the document he has in his hand. So far as I can see the witness is reading that note? I am not reading the whole note, I have read from the notes.

He might be reading portion of the notes. I am not interested. Yes, I have read portion of the notes. BY THE COURT :

Are you registering an objection to the procedure, Mr. Berrange? MR. BERRaNGE :

I would like to know what the procedure is. I would like to know whether the witness is, in fact, reading from his notes, that's all. BY THE COURT s

You are referring to your notes. Is that to refresh your memory? Yes. Notes that I made when I read the documents.

By yourself? By myself.

- 4555-

When you read the documents? When I read the documents MR. BERRaNGE S

I have no objection to that at all, Sir, as long as the notes go in. May I put it this way, as long as the Defence first have the opportunity of seeing the notes from which the Witness is refreshing his memory and then enabling us to decide whether we'll ask for the notes to go in. BY THE COURT s

You h .Ve no objection to that, Mr. Prosecutor? BY IHE P.P. :

I have no objection to that. BY THE COURT :

Will you continue? The document falls in line with the Communist interpretation of the South African situation. The basic argument is that the forces of reaction must be fought, which is Communist argument over the world, and there is a reference to "fascism in South Africa". Thei-e are references to ''reactionary forces". There is a continual reference to democracy and progress used in the same way as it is used in Communist literature and it seemed to me that this document .lid not mean by "democracy" what w^ understand by it, namely the parliamentary form of government and freedom. It refers to new forms of democracy and seems to imply that the Peoples' Democracies are the satellite states. One statement occurs in this document which seems to me quite Communist and that is on page 4, "For no group in this country will allow nor bitter government persecution than ours, which challenges the whole basis and source of fascism so directly. Already we have been the victims of oppression of the anti-Communism Act".

BY MR. BERRANGE : I would like to know through you, Sir, whether the

witness has read the whole of the note which is attached to this Exhibit, or whether he has only read a portion of that

- 4556 -

note. If he has only read a portion of that note, I would be glad, the Defence would be glad if he would mark that portion which he has read. BY THE WITNESS :

May I finish the last note? BY THE COURT :

Yes? If we take this last paragraph which was read in conjunction with the opening paragraph, we s^e that the change of system of Government which is there referred to, is revolutionary. I reads, s "We will work for a change whereby the power of Government will be entrusted to all the people of South Africa". BY MR. BSRRANGE :

We request* Sir, that the witness in future at all times marks that portion of the note which he is reading. BY THE P.P. :

The next is A.M.K. 4-1, "Draft of the Immediate Programme of Action, by J. Hodgson"? This document seems to me full of Communist activities adapted to the conditions of a colonial country. It involves the basix assumptions of Communism, in its implications, which are not always stated, and in its purpose. As regards the basic assumptions, behind the proposed new movement is the assumption that the political and economic situation in South Africa is that of fascism and a war-mongering capitalist state as against the new Peoples' Democracies. We read on page 1 : "The movement as a whole is the peoples' / answer to fascism and a drive to War". Also : "The oppressed / non-White majorities". Also : "Relief from intolerable conditions". Also : "The social, economic and political struc-ture of South Africa has imposed on us this sectional form of ,• organisation". Also % "We are presented with the need to / withstand and defeat fascism". This is a non-deviation argument which interprets the South African situation according to the Communist interpretation. The implication is further that we

- 4557 -

have no democracy in South Africa and that a new Peoples' Democracy must be established. Page 2 : "Fascism can be defeated only in some decisive action which assets the will of the people for democracy". And also: "A Peoples" Democratic Government". I pointed out before that that phrase and attitude is Communist. Communist terminology used implies the

Communist inter rotation of the situation and tactics. Such phraseology is militant democrats, asserting militantly and actively the legality of democratic concepts and aspirations; the alternative is a democratic peoples' government and the use of the word "reactionary". On page 4 there is a reference to the South African situate as "A national liberatory movement of resistance to fascism and war". Now, that is the Communist interpretation of colonial policy over the world! TKe~~Trerir phrase which is significant is this : "The people are ill-prepared, ideologically and educationally to meet the onslaught of fascism, they are fumbling for a strategy and have not yet evolved effective tactics". Every Communist statement which usually refers to the importance of tactics and ideological training. The following phrases occur : "Militant democracy", "Democratic Peoples' Government", "Resistance to fascism and war", "Campaigns for peace". Those are phrases which constantly recur in Communist statements. In the concluding paragraph the purpose of the new movement is described : "Prepa ration of people for the defeat of fascism". This is a ' ~ •; v relatively long-term objective which requires the education of the people my means of experience and tactical activity and by appropriate propaganda material, it prepares them for appropriate action and for the acceptance of other allies in what is a common struggle. That is also consonant with

V

tactical and methodological descriptions from the Communist Party.

The next is C. 297, "Report of the South African Congress

- 4558 -

of Democrats, Trades Hall, Kerk Street, Johannesburg, 10th and 11th Octooer, 1953"? The document seems to have Communist tendencies and a CommunTsTtr- w po e although there is no directly Communist statement by way of a quotation from one of the masters. In paragraph 2, line 9, the racial conflict and oppression which is supposed to occur in South Africa is linked up with the international class struggle and a capitalist threat of war. The Communist tactic is to link up any local struggle of this sort with the Communist interpre-tation of international affairs. In the same paragraph, line 13, "Chey appeal to world peace, ending of national oppression and they appeal to world liberty in line with current Communist slogans and Communist tactics. Under the aims andobjects in this document, the aims and objects be the emphasis on the equality and independence of all nations, is in line with statements made by Stalin and later by Malenkov and others who profess they stand for the sovereignty of all nations. Under paragraph 7(b) the emphasis on the importance of Trade Unions and on the working class is in line with Communist tactics and th- words "National Liberation" are in line with Communist words involving a Communist interpretation of the political situation. Equally, Communist tactics is suggested in the

phrase "We must make a serious effort to disseminate S.A.C.D. .propaganda among working class and Trade Union movements and at all times try to win support of workers and the Trade Unions". The Communists make a special point of getting into the Trade Unions. Under 7(c) the argument that the S.A.C.D. condemns

the action of the British Government in deposing by armed forces the elected government of British Guana, is in line with Communist international policy. "This action taken solely on the grounds of the political view of the Guana Government, are unacceptable to Whitehall is a flagrant violation of democratic^ principles", is flagrantly Communistic in direct line with

the Russian Communist attitude to the situation. We have

- 4559 -

here an example of non-deviation. J The next is a document, Exhibit No. C. 344, a letter

from the South African Congress of Democrats dated the 19th January, 1954, Dear Friend, re : National Council Meeting, and attached thereto is the National Council Meeting, S.A.C.O.D. held on the 13th February, 1954 in Johannesburg.

The document seems clearly Communist in intention on the following points. In Paragraph 7, there is the objection to South African troops being sent to Kenya which is a clear example of non-deviation. "Council demands that the proposal to use South African troops against the people of Kenya be firmly rejected. Council also takes the opportunity of callin upon the people of Britain to unite in protest against the brutal method of oppression, of victimisation, or murder and torture at present being practised in Kenya". In paragraph 11, there is the support of the Peace Movement which has recognised Communist affiliations. There is through the document the emphasis on democracy in a somewhat new conno-tation and there is again the emphasis on the necessity to maintain (?) with the Trade Unions - several times -which is in line with Communist tactics.

The next is C. 350, a document entitled "The South | African Congress of Democrats. Notes on the Political Situation by the National Executive Committee for Discussion at Conference". It is undated. I'll leave this document over. I see the document I have here is not the complete document. I will refer to this later again. The next is C. 160 - that is a "Counter Attack". No. 1, November, 1953, Bulletin of the South African Congress of Democrats, P.O. Box 4088, Johannesburg. The document contains words and expressions which are not directly Communist, but it contains! words and expressions commonly used in Communist documents and expresses clearly a'non-deviation policy, that is 1 supporting Soviet international policy and it emphasises the

- 4560 -

importance of a militant unity among the working people. It refers to democratic rights, it objects to the British policy in British Guana and it protests against Communist banning in this country.

The next is A. 15, the "Constitution of the African , National Congress". Attached hereto is a preamble to Declaration on Basix Policy and Programme on the Ecnomic Policy and Programme? The document shows Communist tendencies - page 1 ... ~ BY THE COURT.

Which document are you referring to? A document marked A. 15.

Yes, but there are two documents marked A. 15. The Constitution of the A.N.C. and then the Preamble to Declaration.

They are marked the same and the paging runs through, so I will try to indicate as I go along. I am first referring to the Constitution of the A.N.C. Page 3, demands the equitable

— —

re-division of land, page 2 the democratisation of industry to enable the workers to reap and enjoy the benefits of indus-trial development in the general expansion. Page 5, the present system of South Africa is rejected and the creation of doundations of a new standard of civilisation and of new values of culture for South Africa are indicated. Page 6, the creation of new social institutions to give concrete expression to the aspirations of the people along the lines of this new system of organised human relations, is advocated. Also page 6, the establishment and promotion throughout Africa of one common African language and as an auxiliary to the mother tongue as a vehicle of national culture, tlso page 6, the establishment of the right of each national group or sub-group to use on a regional basis their mother tongue in all spheres of public life. This is in accordance with Stalin's policy of self determination in colonial and national questions.' My copy if page 817, 863 and 868. Page 6, "The African people

- 4561 -

are opposed to all foreigners or foreign powers that have designs on Africa and are totally opposed to colonialism and imperialism. And page 6,"the^frican people supports the legitimate struggle of all people for democracy, self deter-mination and peace".

What do you say about that? I believe that that shows a Communist tendency reunning right through the whole document.

The next is A. 40. It is a Presidential address of the African National Congress, Tr.nsvaal, submitted to the 42nd Annual Provincial Conference in the Communal Hall, Western Native Township, Johannesburg, 9th to 11th October, 1954. This document follows the Communist pattern of argu-ment. The speech adopts the current Communist interpretation of the world situation!!! which—uhe imperialist powers are seen as raaoti nnarTes~'inrt h aving th.; intent_ ot' p nT gjjTg hh orld into a biooa oatn. Tne speaker speaks of the indebted-ness of^n slaved people to the U. S. S. R. , to China and the new democracies. The quotation is : "Were it not for their existence together with the peace and freedom loving peoples in the world, slavery would have been the order of th„ day in

every colonial and dependent country". The document speaks of fascist conditions in South Africa and links the struggle of the non-Europeans with that of the liberatory movements over the world. The document says that the Government is forcing South African into a Police State. The document follows the Communit pattern of argument adopted in all ^

countries. A. 101. Message by W. M. Sisulu, Secretary General of

the African National Congress. There is no date on this document. I would say this document is indirectly associa-

—

ted with left-wing tendencies. It refers to the police state in the usual terminology and the fascism of the Government and it associates itself with the liberatory movement.

- 4561 ?

BY THE COURT : You might just explain what is meant by left-wing tenden-

cies? In political talk we distinguish between right-wring tendencies which embody the series of capitalist forms of government, - commonly called free forms of government - and left-wing tendencies which refer to more or less extreme socialist and communist forms of government. / BY THE P.P. : I

The next is^A. __203. "African Lodestar", issued by the African National Congress Youth League, Transvaal, November, 1953, Some of the articles in this journal argue on a Communist basis for liberatory action. On page 4, it is argued that Trade Unions should not limit themselves to economi issues but should join the liberatory movement, and on page 5 there are references to working class organisations in connec-tion with freedom and democracy.

Has that "freedom and democracy" a special meaning in communist phraseology? In Communist phraseology democracy means a form of government based on the Soviet form of government." D£mitroy, the previous Prime Minister of Bulgaria said that the new democracy is based on Soviet example and Mao-tse-Tung said the same. BY MR. SLOVO :

Who was the first person mentioned by the witness? Dimitrov, Georgi Dimitrov, Prime Minister Bulgaria and some-time Secretary to the Comintern. THE COURT ADJOURNS. ON RESUMING; May it please your Worship, I am again instruc-ted, sir, that great difficult, is being experienced amongst the Accused in hearing both my learned friend and and the Witness. May I again ask your Worship to direct an appeal, especially to theWitness, to speak slowly and distinctly. (Loudspeaker tested)

Collection: 1956 Treason Trial Collection number: AD1812

PUBLISHER: Publisher:- Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand Location:- Johannesburg ©2011

LEGAL NOTICES:

Copyright Notice: All materials on the Historical Papers website are protected by South African copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, or otherwise published in any format, without the prior written permission of the copyright owner.

Disclaimer and Terms of Use: Provided that you maintain all copyright and other notices contained therein, you may download material (one machine readable copy and one print copy per page) for your personal and/or educational non-commercial use only.

People using these records relating to the archives of Historical Papers, The Library, University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg, are reminded that such records sometimes contain material which is uncorroborated, inaccurate, distorted or untrue. While these digital records are true facsimiles of paper documents and the information contained herein is obtained from sources believed to be accurate and reliable, Historical Papers, University of the Witwatersrand has not independently verified their content. Consequently, the University is not responsible for any errors or omissions and excludes any and all liability for any errors in or omissions from the information on the website or any related information on third party websites accessible from this website.