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Diy cyclonic dirt seperator from pvc bits and a bucketby neorazz on October 11, 2009
Table of Contents
Diy cyclonic dirt seperator from pvc bits and a bucket . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Intro: Diy cyclonic dirt seperator from pvc bits and a bucket . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Step 1: Parts acquirement . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Step 2: Prep . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Step 3: Assembly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4
Step 4: Test /results . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Step 5: BONUS.. videos... Web rebuttals.... improvment ideas . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10
Related Instructables . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
Comments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Intro: Diy cyclonic dirt seperator from pvc bits and a bucketheres how i build my unit for my micro to keep my shop clean and never have to change my filter or lose vacuum pressure from loose fittings this design allows you tomaintain your shop vac in stock conditionill try to describe the parts as best as possible most should be available at your local orange box (or blue if your like that... :) the theroy goes like this (as seen on dyson vacs) get the dirt spinning really fast like a tornadothe heavier particles of dirt cant get to the top of the canister to the exhaust port and fall thru the small opening into the waste container (i.f. 5 gallon bucket)
addition:the distance between the intake and the outflow is key... too close and the dirt jumps the gap the 2" outflow pvc is pushed down into the main chamber a couple ofinches creating a secondary air current up the wall across the lid and back down into the chamber pushing the dirt away from the from the exit and back into the mainwall cyclone ) if i can find a camera small enough ill video the interior ...the irony is if i put something in there to film it its going to change the air flow"no fair you'll change the outcome by measuring it " ...hubert farnsworth
Image Notes1. plastic snow !!!2. this piece can be inserted into the main chamber at diffrent depths to adjustwhere the dirt escapes3. dirt in here4. dirty air in here5. clean air here
Image Notes1. dirt goes up but cant go out and falls before getting to the exhaust
Step 1: Parts acquirement5 gallon bucket with air tight lidthese were about $4 make sure it has the rubber seal ringapiece of ply is good for supporting the lid for longevity4" pvc had laying around2"pvc dittothere was a cart of short pre cut pieces at my store so you didnt have to buy 10' sections1 toilet floor mount adapter4" 3" flat adapter2" to 4" cone adapter4" to link with 2" t 45 not 904" coupler4" to 2" flat adapter2x 2" couplersa tube of rtv red gasket makeri had this from a auto store you can get this for chimneys stove to so it may be at a hardware store
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. making sure of fit here is the most important part2. for cutting hole in plastic lid later3. 2" to 4" cone adapter4. are these photos in order ?
Step 2: Prepto start we need to cut the lid we need a hole very close to the size of the toilet flange also at this point make shue your cut out fits into your bucket and tight to thebottom of the lid without binding on the sides so you can close your bucket to get a good airtight seal
Image Notes1. test fit2. theres a hole in this bucket !3. saw for cutting woods...slowly4. test samples donated by saw
Image Notes1. making sure of fit here is the most important part2. for cutting hole in plastic lid later3. 2" to 4" cone adapter4. are these photos in order ?
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. test fit your cutout before final lid cut make sure its sung but not enough that youhave to force it together2. 4" to 3 " adapter wedged into toilet flange with 2" pvc cutoff all pieces rtv gasketsealed together
Step 3: Assemblyassemble as shown in pictures the pvc lenghts probably matter but i just cut without measuringtrial and error would create the best possible vortex
Image Notes1. coated bottom of toilet flange and around base with rtv
Image Notes1. get a good bead here2. here too3. the other side of the 4" to 3" reducer
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. seal under here before pushing toghter2. when assembling this piece let dry before assembling upright portion
Image Notes1. smear rtv around to get all the cracks
Image Notes1. flip over install your plywood cutout i used way to long drywall screws to holdthis all togehter2. if youve used enough rtv it will seal the screw holes for you
Image Notes1. put another bead around here2. and here3. and here4. and here5. and here6. and here7. and here8. and here9. and here10. see the rubber seal
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. small piece of 2"2. 2" to 4" cone reducer
Image Notes1. 6" ish piece of 4" pvc
Image Notes1. 4" 2" t
Image Notes1. another 6" ish 4" cutoff
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. 4" coupler
Image Notes1. 4" to 2" flat reducer
Image Notes1. clearly this is 2" pvc
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. 2" pvc
Image Notes1. 2" coupler my vac hoses plugged right into this size without modification i tookthem with me to the store to find a good fit
Image Notes1. like so2. that is also what we do up here
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Step 4: Test /resultsi would guess about 95% of the stuff i vaced ended up in the bucket not bad for 30 minutes
Image Notes1. plastic snow !!!2. this piece can be inserted into the main chamber at diffrent depths to adjustwhere the dirt escapes3. dirt in here4. dirty air in here5. clean air here
Image Notes1. wood dust2. pvc plastis snow3. screws4. unmentinable5. bit of the lid
Image Notes1. this gunk was here someone used in there wet basment without empyting thedirt out2. heres the very small amout of pvc that made it to the vac
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Step 5: BONUS.. videos... Web rebuttals.... improvment ideas
OK first off all i built this knowing of a couple of products already on the marketlike this and that was stolen from here i hadn't seen this design but seems to be more of a general separator from what I've readi didn't have $50-$1200 to spend on something that's easy enough to build from leftovers
the camera has trouble focusing on the small particles flying by so fast but you can clearly see a downward counterclockwise then i tried some toner it adheres to theplex blocking the camera view
in this video you see the cyclonic action is good at the bottom of the chamber and more chaotic at the top the ability of this design and the size wight of the stuff yourtrying to separate is key to success it works great up to a point heavy objects just drop heavy aerodynamic objects spin around and drop lighter particulates have a50/50 chance of going out or down (this is where improvement is needed... if you need hepa3 grade separation)
at the beginning of this video we see a chunk of something stuck in the vortex my guess is the cyclone vortex is started by the constant air exchange from the highervolume lower container to the lower volume upper chamber this would also explain the chaotic flow at the top as the effect dissapates up the chamber ..why betterdesigns have a v shaped chamber to pull the effect closer to the intake (how do you do this with pvc ? progressive reducers?) then various toner tests trying to catch thevortex without dirting up the plex
results the smaller the particles (toner is as small as.03 micron) don't collect as well
possible improvements : spiral intake after a cubed chamber ...multiple vorticity chambers more of a total startover if i wanted to goto a much higher separation but ill see what i can do with what i have available without scrapping what i have
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
Image Notes1. my micro cnc did this
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Comments
22 comments Add Comment
Entropy512 says: Oct 14, 2009. 8:07 AM REPLYWouldn't cyclonic separation require the intake to be offset from thevertical axis instead of pointing straight at it?
It looks like just separation from gravity settling here, no cycloniceffects. Very efficient for larger stuff like sand and PVCsawdust, but not as effective for stufflike dust.
In this configuration it isn't really any different than the design ofthe shopvac driving it.
Significantly greater separation (and probably reduced parts count)would probably be achieved by having the intake go into the edge of thebucket lid,pointing along (not at) the bucket wall, with the outletstill in the center of the bucket.
bongodrummer says: Oct 15, 2009. 5:54 AM REPLYNice job for 30 mins! Like Entropy though I don't reallyunderstand how this creates a cyclone (more explanation?). I havefound a very useful resource onthis topic to be <ahref="http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking/cyclone/BuildCyclone.cfm">http://www.billpentz.com/Woodworking/cyclone/BuildCyclone.cfm</a><br /><br/>I would like to improve mine system so that I hardly ever need to changefilters, and make it more elegant... Thanks for the thought provoking'able. <br/><br /><br />
neorazz says: Oct 20, 2009. 4:52 PM REPLYif i make another one ill follow this design
bongodrummer says: Oct 21, 2009. 1:35 AM REPLYHay neorazz, thanks for the link - that is cool, I might have a go at something similar myself.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
vectorges says: Oct 12, 2009. 4:38 AM REPLYYou have some impressive results, but I am not sure why. The idea for a cyclone is to move the "dust and debris" in a spiral pattern around the outside of thecontainer. If your intake was roughly horizontal at the outside edge of the bucket it should work better. But you can't argue with results. Good job.
neorazz says: Oct 20, 2009. 4:51 PM REPLYit is see the video
PKM says: Oct 12, 2009. 5:12 AM REPLYI suspect that a vortex may spontaneously start in the cylinder, as it's a more "stable" arrangement than turbulent flow, but that's just a stab in the dark. Even without a vortex, it's entirely possible that the momentum of dust particles carry them downwards into the bucket while the air turns upwards- in thiscase the cyclone would probably just improve the filtering of smaller dust particles.
kikiclint says: Oct 16, 2009. 9:20 AM REPLYlooking at the setup, it would seem that the air is really fast in the hose, but when it gets to the tube, it can slow down, like a stream suddenly gettingwider, letting the particles just fall down. That would explain the efficiency.
BigRedRocket says: Oct 16, 2009. 4:01 PM REPLYIt is entirely possible that a vortex is generated along the axis of the cylinder. I have seen another DIY dust collector that had a tangential inletwhich attempted to spin the flow counter clockwise, yet it actually spun clockwise.
The asymmetry of the setup, the variable inlet conditions, etc. all play into the vortex generation.
Taping some small strings to the inside of the tube would allow you to visualize the flow. Also, adding a clear flat plate on the top, instead of thePVC, would allow you to see the strings and their movement.
Hey, but it works.
P.S. the uncertainty principle applies to quantum mechanics. Fluid mechanics can be chaotic, and this flow probably is unstable, but viewing theflow isn't going to change the flow. Drilling a small hole in the top or side, adding a light, and sticking a camera in there most likely would workgreat to see what is going on.
nocode54 says: Oct 18, 2009. 9:17 AM REPLYI am a mechanical novice and a wood carver (strictly hand tools). I love this concept but can't see how a vortex is created. Can the origingator or someoneelse comment? Thanks to the poster regarding static buildup (a real concern with highly flammable, fine sawdust). Can anyone tell me how to ground PVC?
neorazz says: Oct 20, 2009. 4:49 PM REPLYcheck the videos for grounding run a piece of copper wire unshielded to a ground point and attach to pvc via a self tap screw haven't tried it yet but theprinciple seems sound
trf says: Oct 18, 2009. 3:01 PM REPLYI had an improvment idea. I dont know if it will work but ill throw it out there. What if you put a semi fine mesh screen to where your vaccum hose attaches toyour bucket. That way, if anything does make it past the vortex, it wil hit the screen and when the vaccum is turned off this debri will fall into the bucket due togravity?
neorazz says: Oct 20, 2009. 4:46 PM REPLYin a good system you shouldn't need any filter at all im not quite there yet
JCambpell007 says: Oct 15, 2009. 11:13 AM REPLY Great idea!Just a word to the wise: pvc will cause a lot of static build-up andwill need to be grounded otherwise it can spark and ignite the microfine particles. Hate tosee a good idea go up in flames, so to speak.
neorazz says: Oct 20, 2009. 4:44 PM REPLYyeah i made a spark 2 inches long vacuuming up iron filings as for flame it takes quite a bit of heat to melt this pvc (flamethrower/ potato cannon staytuned) and i wonder if the fuel to air ratio in a partial vacuum would even support a sustained fire now if there were a leak in your collection container youcould cause a backdraft that would be cool
boffincentral says: Oct 18, 2009. 8:44 PM REPLYYou will get a static charge. However, to get enough charge to ignite will be hard. A lot of amateur woodworkers build dust collection systems using PVCpipe that have far greater CFM volumes (upwards of 1200) than a shopvac can create. I've run my (ungrounded) dust collection for hours with littleeffect, even in times of low humidity.
There was also an interesting episode of Mythbusters that covered static electricity and ignition as well.
I'm not saying it's impossible but that it is highly improbable.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Diy-cyclonic-dirt-seperator-from-pvc-bits-and-a-bu/
joebar32 says: Oct 20, 2009. 10:25 AM REPLYAs someone who designs systems like this for moving material at up to 100tph I can tell you that this is not a true cyclone but works just fine despite it. Whatyou are getting here is simply the velocity drop due to the change in cross-sectional area. Make the big pipe bigger and you'll improve efficiency. If theupward rising velocity of a given particle is above the velocity in that cross-section, it will drop out. If you put the inlet on a tangent to the pipe, you'll get abetter cyclone. It's efficiency will be more due to loss of momentum as the particles impact and slide along the ID of the pipe, slowing down and falling to thebottom. Pipe ID has less effect on efficiency than in the first style. A tall thin rectangular inlet on the tangent would improve efficiency as well. Beware, acyclone will have significantly more wear on the pipe wall and static generated due to the amount of particle contact it creates.
neorazz says: Oct 20, 2009. 4:40 PM REPLY100 tons per hour? for aggregates? most of what your saying make sense check the videos
srilyk says: Oct 15, 2009. 6:44 AM REPLY If you cut a hole in the side of the PVC and replaced it withplexiglass (and took some care to get it pretty smooth) it should have aminimal effect on theairflow design and allow folks to see inside :D
Also, this is awesome
neorazz says: Oct 12, 2009. 10:55 AM (removed by author or community request)
lemonie says: Oct 12, 2009. 2:16 PM REPLYInteresting - add your text (above) to the Instructable (Edit button)
L
CaseyCase says: Oct 12, 2009. 3:54 AM REPLYClever idea. I use a Thein Separator myself. http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm
