Despute of Gospel of John the Elder

8/6/2019 Despute of Gospel of John the Elder

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TheSwod o I ntelecB ook - 2

D esputeo G ospe o John

By: Mohammed Fareeduddin Siddique

Book Number: 2

Document number: 2.08

Dated Updated: 19th March 2004.
mailto:[email protected]:[email protected]


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OF JOHNJohn the elder or John the son of Zebedee?

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Page 4 of 8___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________DISCLAIMER: This document in not intended to hurt any sects religious, emotional feelings. Any thing that is written by a human being is susceptible to errors (like the presentday Bible). If there is any truth in this paper, then it is from Allh s.w.t, the typo errors (if any) are from myself, Allh s.w.t forgive me for my human / typo errors. I can becontacted at mailto:[email protected]. I will be happy to clarify any doubts from my Christian friends in particular and all others in general.

to a noble family that he has expressed in his gospel. Many Christians generally acceptthis conclusion today. That has resulted in rejecting John son of Zebedee, the disciple asthe author of fourth gospel.

The above conclusion is without foundation. Apart from protecting the originality of thegospel of John, one cannot see any other reason for it. The question yet to be answeredthat if John the Elder, beside the twelve disciples was another student of Jesus. Why hashe not mentioned by Mark, Luke, and Matthew in their gospels? The fourth gospelindicates that its author was in very close contact with Jesus; also he was loved deeplyby Jesus as well. The author of fourth gospel has used the expression in many places"the disciple whom Jesus loved." At the end, the author says that the meaning of thatexpression is the author of the fourth gospel himself.

[See e.g. " One of his disciple, whom Jesus loved was lying close to the breast of Jesus13:23]. And "So lying thus, close to the breast of Jesus, he said to him, Lord, who is it?"13:25]

We don't see this closeness by and for twelve disciples, but this disciple was so lovedthat he was allowed to be that close and eat. So, if Jesus was so close to him [author],then the author was not included as thirteenth disciple? How is it rationally acceptablethat Judas Iscariot who was regarded as thief (John 12:6) and who betrayed Jesus andcaused his master [Jesus] to be arrested [Luke 22:3], be included among the twelvedisciples, and not the student of Jesus [the author of fourth gospel], who ate close to

[laying] the breast of Jesus?

Which none other disciple did, and who was most concerned at Jesus ascension toheaven by reason of separation from him is / was not included among disciples of Jesus?

Further, why Mark, Luke, and Matthew in their gospels, which according to Christianscontains a complete description and details of Jesus' life, even mentioning ordinarypersons who were connected with Jesus like Mary Magdalene, Martha in reference ofJesus's donkey, completely fail to make any reference to this alleged student of Jesus?

IF there was a disciple named John the Elder, beside from John son of Zebedee, thedisciple, then why the authors of all four gospels failed to explain the distinction betweentwo Johns to avoid confusion? Among the twelve disciples we know that there were TWO[James] (1) James son of Zebedee (2) James son of Alphaeus. Similarly, there wereTWO persons with the name of Judas (1) Judas son of James (2) Judas Iscariot. Theauthors of four gospels have distinguished between them by mentioning them separatelyin order to avoid confusion. [See e.g. Matthew 10:6, Luke 6:14, Acts 1:13] So, if therewere two persons among the disciples of Jesus by the name of John, then why theauthors of gospels did not dispel the confusion as the authors of four gospels did in thecases of James and Judas?

Further, if there was a disciple of Jesus by the name of John the Elder, then where did hego after the ascension of Jesus? The efforts and activities of disciples of Jesus after his


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departure are described in detail in the book of Acts. But there is no mention of any Johnthe Elder. It cannot be assumed or said that he [John the Elder] died immediately afterthe ascension of Jesus. Because the gospel of John was written very much after Jesus.

It is stated therein that " and this is famous amongst the disciples-author of fourth gospelwill live till the day of judgment (21:23). Therefore, all Christian theologians, who regardJohn the Elder as separate from the John the son of Zebedee, the disciple are of theview that John the Elder remained alive for a considerable period after Jesus to theextent that Polycrap became his student. The evidence is indisputable that John theElder was not a disciple of Jesus. The verse at the end of gospel of John states that:

" This is the disciple who is bearing witness to these things, and who has written thesethings, and we know that this testimony is true (21:24)."The self witness, John the Elder

bearing witness for self...! and self [John the elders] testimony on behalf of rest of thehumanity...! Bear in mind the his lie in the first verse John 1:1 and this last verse, a selftestimony on behalf of the rest. Also see my paper Lie of the word.

Let us keep this fact in mind that the majority of Christian scholars believes that aboveverse is a later insertion and is not by the author of gospel of John. The well knowncommentator of the Bible Westcott, who is very cautious and careful to criticize the Bible,says in this regards [quoted by Streeter, p 430]:

" The two verses appear to be separate notes attached to the gospel before its

publication. The form of verse 24 contrasted with that of XIX 35 shows conclusively that itis not the witness of the evangelist. The words were probably added by Epaesian Elders,to whom the preceding narrative had been given both orally and in writing."

This view is supported by the well-known writer of modern times Bishop Gore, and this isthe reason why these two verses are not found in the codex sineticus. Therefore, onecannot say that the author of these verses was a disciple of Jesus.

It establishes beyond any doubt that the author of the fourth gospel is neither John son ofZebedee, the disciple nor John the Elder or any other disciple of Jesus. In view of the

above facts the author of fourth gospel was a person who lived very much later than thedisciples of Jesus and who acquired his knowledge under Paul and his students.

According to "Westcott", in order to ascribe gospel of John, son of Zebedee, the disciple,certain sentences were added which includes the personal experience of the writer, witha view to refuting the arguments of some Gnostic sects of that times who rejected the so-called divinity of Jesus. It is undisputed in the academic world that alterations in Biblewere common and continue in order to fight opposing sects of the time. ProfessorStreeter, the well-known Christian scholar of modern time writes in his book [The FourGospels p 4] in the clearest terms possible and I quote:

" Then, in the fourth gospel we find an addition to the text, admittedly nor by the originalauthor which makes a definite statement as to authorship, is it not more probable that it


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was made at some later date perhaps also in some other locality, and was intended toassert a view as to the authorship of the book from which certain person at that time orplace dissented? And that such dissent did exist in the second century we shall see

shortly. That being so, the addition of the words "this is the disciple which.wrote thesethings" is to be interpreted as an attempt to settle a debated question, and is, therefore,additional evidence of the existence of doubts in regard to the authorship of the Gospel."

Hence, it is not without wonder, that under such circumstances the fourth gospel and theletters of John were written by a student of Paul, and people later made certainalterations to establish that the author of fourth gospel has met personally with Jesus andhas been in his company, which by the way is not true.

Keeping the general approach on these times in mind, this conclusion appears to be

correct. In Christian view the fourth gospel may have been written by John the Elder, buthe was not a disciple of Jesus. By adopting the views of professor Streeter, the author offourth gospel was John the Elder, but that: [Streeter "The Four Gospels p 443]

"John the Elder is described by Papias as disciple of the Lord "by Polycrap as one" whohas seen the Lord. "We need not suppose that he had done much more when 'see' Him,brought perhaps as a boy of twelve years old to Jerusalem by his father on pilgrimage tothe Passover. And he may have been among the crowd that looked on at the crucifixion,people in those days were not careful to keep such sights from children. In that case byAD 95 he would have reached the age of seventy-seven. The First Epistle of John was

obviously written by a man of advance years, who can pass quite naturally from"brethren" to my little children" in the same paragraph (IJN III 13 and 18). This last phasewould hardly have been written by a man under seventy."

There is, then no difficulty in supposing that John the Elder wrote the fourth gospel AD90-95 at the age of seventy of above.

Conclusion of this paperChristian missionary and evangelists desperately attempt to save the fourth gospel frombeing declared as created. But if one can avoid fruitless attempts of justification and

accept the theory as it is, the following conclusion is inevitable.

1. The author of fourth gospel was NOT John son of Zebedee, the disciple, but John theElder.

2. John the Elder is NOT among the disciples of Jesus.

3. John the Elder, saw Jesus once at the age of twelve [12], but did NOT get anyopportunity of serving Jesus or hearing his teachings.

4. John the Elder saw the Jesus in the last stage of crucifixion.


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5. He was NOT a citizen of Jerusalem, but he was a resident of Southern regions ofCanaan.

6. After Jesus and until AD 95, there is NO record or any account where he lived? Andfrom whom he acquired knowledge? Whose company he was often in/with? And whatrelationship he had with the disciples of Jesus?

7. On or about 95 AD, at the age of 70+ he wrote the gospel of John in which hementions for the first time the doctrine of incarnation.

8. Later, an addition was made at the end of the gospel that indicated that its author wasthe disciple John the son of Zebedee or some beloved disciple of Jesus.

The conclusions set forth above are hardly a result of any Muslims' reasoning, but arerather the views of Christian theologians in order to save the fourth gospel from beingdeclared as created. The above conclusions will lead to undeniable facts cited below.

(a) The doctrine of incarnation cannot be ascribed to Jesus or any of his disciples.

(b) A person who at the age of twelve only saw Jesus but did not acquire any knowledgefrom him first wrote this doctrine after the ascension of Jesus.

(c) The person who presents this doctrine is unknown, apart from his writing, his

condition and situation is unknown.

(d) What type of person he was? What were his beliefs? How did he come up with thisdoctrine? What was his relationship with the disciples?

(e) This doctrine of incarnation came into being and/or inserted in the Bible around 95 ADwhen his age was 70 and 28 years had passed since the death of Paul.

(f) Because Paul had died before him, and Paul had clearly expounded the doctrine ofincarnation in his letters, which proves that the first person to expound the doctrine of

incarnation was not John the Elder, but Paul.

(g) Let us not forget this fact that any statement of Jesus neither supports the doctrine ofincarnation, nor was it espoused by any of his disciples.

The Noble Quran, 2:77-78 Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and whatthey reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book (i.e., theBible), but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Thenwoe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: 'This is fromAllah,' To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write,

and for the gain they make thereby.


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Page 8 of 8___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________DISCLAIMER: This document in not intended to hurt any sects religious, emotional feelings. Any thing that is written by a human being is susceptible to errors (like the presentday Bible). If there is any truth in this paper, then it is from Allh s.w.t, the typo errors (if any) are from myself, Allh s.w.t forgive me for my human / typo errors. I can becontactedat mailto:author@fareedsiddiquecomI will be happy to clarify any doubts from my Christian friends in particular and all others in general

O my Christian reader!Respond to your Lord before a Day comes from Allah [S.W.T],which cannot be turned back. On that Day you will have no hiding-place and no means ofdenial. (Noble Quran, Surat ash-Shura: 47)

Except for those who are steadfast and do right actions. They will receive forgiveness and alarge reward. (Surah Hud, 11)So far, I have described the Qur'anic understanding ofpatience and have highlighted how it differs from the understanding held by those who arefar from religion of Islam by comparing their behavior and the disbelief of the followers of St.Paul.

I invite you now, O my Christian reader, to use your intellect and be a true believer, a

truthful submitter to your and my God Allah ] ]. May Allah [] bestow uponyou his mercy and help you understand the fallacies of the Christian Pauline religion of Saulof Tarus...Ameen, ya Rabbal Izzah.

Color codes:

Red italicsare the words of the present day bible.

Blue italics are the Holy verses of Quran Al-Kareem, Translations by Yousuf Ali / M.Pickthal.

Normal blacks are my words.

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Despute of Gospel of John the Elder