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Pima Community College Board of Governors

Feb. 29, 2016 Study Session

Community Board Room, District Office,

4905 E. Broadway, Tucson, AZ

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Is everyone here that needs to be here?

Okay. Are we recording? Did we ever decide about recording

these sessions? Oh, there we are. Hi. I guess we are.

Oh, okay. So let's call this study session to order, and so we

are very interested in the information being brought to us today in

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the study session from the Arizona Tech Council. It is very

important as part of our mission as a community college that we are

aligned with the business world, and especially when it comes to

tech. We have that responsibility to our community, to our students,

and I am very glad to have you folks here today.

I will turn it over to you to do your introductions and tell us a

little bit about what the Arizona Tech Council is and how we can help

you.

Yes?

>> CHANCELLOR LEE LAMBERT: I asked Lorraine and Ian to help facilitate

and moderate today's conversation. So if you don't mind, I will just

hand it to Lorraine and she will do the introductions and so forth.

>> DR. LORRAINE MORALES: Thank you all very much for joining us today for

this very important meeting. I want to begin first by thanking

Dr. Ian Roark and also Alex Rodriguez for working together so

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closely to coordinate and bring business and industry to the table.

As you all know, we have all been reading locally, regionally,

nationally about the skills gap in all areas for our employment

opportunities for our students.

A couple of years ago we had an opportunity to sit with

individuals from the nursing community, and they shared lots of

really good information to the board about what they are facing in

hospitals and in doctors' offices locally and nationally. We found

that the board learned quite a bit of information from that, so the

chancellor suggested that we pull this type of study session together

for this industry in particular.

So with that, I want to, before we move over for introductions,

I'm going to read a lot of this because I want to make sure that I

get it right. So the Arizona Tech Council is Arizona's trade

association for science and technology for those companies.

The council is recognized for having diverse professional

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business, community, and numerous events, educational forums,

business conferences that bring together leaders, managers,

employees, and visionaries to make an impact on the technology

industry.

The council members work very closely to further the advancement

of technology in Arizona. So this session is an opportunity for you,

as board members, to dialogue with the Arizona Tech Council leaders

and technology companies concerning the economic and workforce

development issues that are very important to this sector.

So for the next hour, we have CEOs, vice presidents here to talk

about their business and industry in the skills gap. We have pulled

together some questions to kind of help with the conversation. We

will probably not get through all of those questions, because all we

have is an hour, but I feel that it's a very good opportunity to at

least get the conversation started and to provide all of you with

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firsthand knowledge of what is necessary to meet the needs of

business and industry and for our industry leaders to have an

opportunity to tell you what is working and what is not working and

have an open conversation about that.

Anything else to add?

>> SPEAKER: Just briefly. I have already had the opportunity to

visit with most of the guests that we have here today. Found it very

instructive and informative, and I look forward to hearing from them

further today as they dialogue with the whole team.

With that, I'd like to turn it over to Alex to begin the

introductions of the guests, and we will go forward with the

questions after that.

>> SPEAKER: And I do have an agenda here that I can share with

everyone so you'll know what we are going to be talking about.

>> MR. ALEX RODRIGUEZ: Excellent. Thank you, Lorraine. Thank you very

much, Ian, Mr. Chancellor, it's fantastic to see you, sir. Board of

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Governors, thank you all very, very much for this wonderful

opportunity to dialogue with each of you. Mr. Clinco,

congratulations on your board role. I believe you're recently

appointed, as well? Fantastic. Congratulations.

So my name is Alex Rodriguez, and I have the privilege of leading

the Arizona Technology Council here in Southern Arizona.

Lorraine, thank you for queuing it up, because I think that

helped summarize a lot of what we will be discussing here.

So in keeping with the agenda, I'd like to introduce our CEOs.

Essentially this is an opportunity for the CEOs and you, members of

the governing board, to dialogue today.

So after their brief introduction here I will dive deeper into

some of the impact and influence and outcomes of the Arizona

Technology Council and then beyond that we go into questions and

dialogue.

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So, Mr. Stewart, introduction?

>> MR. HOWARD STEWART: My name is Howard Stewart. I run a small

manufacturing company called AGM Container Controls. We have about a

hundred full-time equivalent employees, many of whom have either

attended or are graduates of Pima College. We have a very strong

educational reimbursement program at our college, our company, and

for the last two years we have averaged about 24% of our employees

are attending Pima College or other NCAA accredited institutions.

>> SPEAKER: You have Brad Smith on your agenda. He's not with

us today but a few others are here preparing for this dialogue. Phil

Guest?

>> MR. PHIL GUEST: My name is Phil Guest. I work for Securaplane in

Oro Valley. I'm the general manager, been with the company

three-and-a-half years. Prior to June, I was vice president of

engineering and then took over when (indiscernible) was promoted. We

have roughly 170 employees, and we are primarily a manufacturer of

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electronics for commercial and business aircraft.

>> MR. ALEX RODRIGUEZ: By the way, both of these companies have been

multi-multi-award-winning companies in their sectors and their fields

and been recognized certainly by the Arizona Technology Council for

their performance, first of all, and second for their civic and

corporate citizenship, as well.

Doug Rasmussen.

>> MR. DOUG RASMUSSEN: Doug Rasmussen. Formerly with B/E Aerospace, so

currently unemployed. I had the pleasure of leading a business that

was started here in Tucson, grew from about five employees to about

2200 worldwide. We currently, the business has around 850 employees

in Tucson.

So I have seen the workforce development from a lot of different

perspectives, from small business and then from a slightly bigger

business. So I look forward to the discussion today.

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>> MR. MARK HANNA: Why did you decide to base your businesses

here in Tucson?

>> MR. ALEX RODRIGUEZ: That's a great question. I'm sure we will get to

it. Real quickly, I want to recognize a few other folks.

First of all, John Dennis, president and CEO for Strategy1

Consulting Services, a company here in Southern Arizona that advises

businesses governments and nonprofits. Been active with the tech

council, key to having prepped for today.

The other individual that I want to recognize is our own new

staff member who some of you may have seen in the Sunday paper.

Tracy Saldahoop. She's now our new director for Southern Arizona

operations and events, and it's fantastic to have her on our staff.

The other individuals that were involved, as well, include Garrett

Kowolowski from Staff Matters, intimate knowledge of workforce

development in Southern Arizona. As well, Paul D, he's president of

Universal Avionics, and then a broader discussion occurred with the

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aerospace and defense CEO network that these gentlemen participate

in, as well. And in January we had Ian spend time with us at that

meeting and had a chance to dive deep into some of the current issues

at Pima Community College.

To highlight briefly, the role of the Arizona Technology Council,

as Lorraine mentioned, we are the premier trade association serving

the science, technology, and innovation sectors of Arizona's economy.

We are not for profit and member-driven organization. The vision of

the Arizona Technology Council that's set by our governing board, a

body of over 40 leaders across the state, including the for-profit,

nonprofit, and educational sectors of the economy, is to help convert

Arizona's economy as the fastest growing tech hub in the country.

Aspirational, but we are doing good in certain areas and we focus our

efforts to try to move closer and closer to that end.

We have a standing statewide public policy committee, composed by

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our members as well. That's where the formulation of our public

policy aims happens at. We have a paid lobbyist out of Phoenix, and

we enter into the state House and Senate legislation every single

year. Most recently we help and we are behind the scenes on the

JTED, restoration of funds for JTED, very important for our members.

We host over 160 different types of events across the state to

help connect industry. So, for example, Howard Stewart in January,

and his company hosted an after 5:00 mixer where some of you were at

and the idea is to help connect engineers with engineers, business

marketing experts with other business marketing experts and the like.

It's a fantastic way to help galvanize and connect Arizona's tech

sector. With over 800 members statewide, from Douglas to Flagstaff

and sort of everywhere in between.

Some of the key events include Southern Arizona tech and business

expo. We have one coming up in March that focuses on information

technology and cyber security called tech junction, so we are

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constantly evolving our events to meet real world events by our

members.

So I will end there, but I just want you to know that this

opportunity is really about how to help galvanize our regional

economy, particularly here in Eastern Pima County with transformation

opportunities, opportunities for businesses like the ones represented

here today to be able to grow faster or close gaps where there are

significant challenges.

So, Mr. Chancellor, members of the board, we really appreciate

this opportunity and let's go for it.

>> SPEAKER: We actually have a question on the table from our

board president, and so I think that would be the rightful place to

start is for the companies that started here in Tucson, what were the

determining factors for locating in Tucson, and then remaining here.

>> SPEAKER: I don't know that I can completely answer

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Securaplane's reasoning or rationale for coming to Tucson originally,

because that was well before my time. It was I think in the very

early '80s, late '70s, decision was made, the company was started in

Australia and I believe the reason it started here in Tucson was

because of all the aerospace activities going on down by the airport.

And the originator, owner of the company originally started with

security systems because of a need he had to protect his airplane.

He came up with a means of basically creating an alarm system for the

airplane. Started to generate interest, and then relocated here to

Tucson, and then we have stayed ever since. We have actually just

built a new building, we moved in at the end of '14, I believe.

Anyway, so we are here to stay, and so what we needed to grow and

expand. We got rid of our old land and built new.

But as far as the "why," that's about as much as I can answer

specifically about that.

>> SPEAKER: So the business that I came down with a couple of

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other guys to start, we located here because Bombardier was here.

Bombardier. It was completing, at that time, really their Learjets

here. That work has now moved to Wichita. The reason for staying

was momentum. I would say if -- I'm not sure if we were making the

decision today that we would be located here. I think that's part of

what we are going to talk about today.

>> SPEAKER: Our company grew out of a company called Arizona

Gear Manufacturing. I'm pretty sure it's like these other situations

where in this case it was the Hughes aircraft, the fact that it was

here probably had a lot to do with the founding of our company.

As for staying here, for the most part, we are pretty happy here

with the exception, I won't go into it, city council has been

discussing some things recently which give us pause for whether or

not we will be able to stay in Tucson.

>> SPEAKER: One of the roles that I play is that I am a member,

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board member of the Arizona Industry Optics Association. We have

approximately 60 members, cluster members here in the Arizona area.

The reason that they are here is because of the strength of the

optics, of the optics at University of Arizona.

>> SPEAKER: Thank you, John. And so even though we have the

questions in front of us, I'm still going to read from those and I

have heard the answer to this first one, so it's almost rhetorical to

an extent, but I think it's good for all of us. That is where does

workforce development and training rank as a priority among the needs

of your companies, and specifically what are you requiring of today's

talent market? What are you looking for?

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: (off microphone.)

>> SPEAKER: Thank you, sir. So, you know, one of the challenges

that I think we all share in growing our businesses is the human

resource element of it. You can have all the money in the world, but

you really need top talent, and, you know, what we have, what I have

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experienced in my three-and-a-half years at Securaplane, there was a

bit of warm body syndrome going on, you know, where we were hiring

who was available as opposed to who we needed, and there are two

by-products that come from that. One is a loss of productivity and

then the costs associated with rework, okay.

And so, you know, regardless of which industry you're in, there

is a timeline that you need to meet to bring a product to market.

What I found is that we have had to redesign products several times

to get them right.

That's a talent. There is a process component to that. But

there is a talent piece, as well.

So, you know, over the past few years, we have worked fairly

diligently at performance management. You know, the result of that

was that maybe some of the folks that were in the wrong, in the wrong

job, are no longer there, but we left those vacancies. Right now my

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main source of people, which I can't get, is Raytheon, believe it or

not. You know, they have most of the talent that we need. We trade,

okay, but going off, and it's either that or try and recruit out of

state, which is a challenge. As some of you know that have tried to

do that.

I guess -- it's extremely important that we grow. It's a make

versus buy. I'd be more than happy to get college grads and train

them. The challenge is even there. We have had some luck but not

enough. So that's extremely important.

So I guess, you know, what do the employers require? So for us,

we are an electronics manufacturer primarily, so we really need

electrical engineers and technicians with electrical hands-on

training, whether that's some kind of Associate's in applied science.

We tend again to have high turnover in that area because we don't

have the right people for the right job.

>> SPEAKER: I would take maybe a little step back. I'd say the

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biggest challenge for any aerospace and defense company in this

region is hiring technical workers, and people with technical skills.

I would define that across four groups. First general assemblers,

meaning the people doing assembly work at the basic level in your

manufacturing plant.

We struggled to hire people who could read a basic drawing, who

could do math, that is just convert from metric to U.S., who had

basic software skills, even just basic computer skills, said more

properly, who understood the --

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: Like Word and Excel?

>> SPEAKER: Yeah, the ability to get on a system, to be able to

interface with our ERP system, to be able to look up files and

understand the logic of how you go about finding the answer to

something, who understood the significance of a management system and

what their role was in that quality management system and who

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understood basic aerospace and engineering jargon.

That would be my first level, and that's something that I think

Pima Community College could play a huge role in addressing.

The next is machinists, sheet metal workers, and electrical

assemblers, that's maybe the next level up from what I would consider

a basic assembler or technical worker within a business. Along with

that, we'd want to see people who had basic industry certifications.

I think that makes a huge difference if they are willing to pursue

and have those type of industry certifications, and if we had more

time we could talk about why that's important.

And then the next level up from that would be what I would

describe as electrical and software test technicians or

troubleshooters, people who understand things at a systematic level

who can actually be involved, you can send out into the field to

solve problems, and who, within your business, can solve the issues

that come up in the manufacturing business on a day-to-day basis.

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Then finally, engineering. As a business, we ultimately, or I

made the decision to start an engineering operation in India, and we

ended up with nearly 300 engineers in India. It allowed us to

engineer around the clock, that was one reason. Another was it was

much more scalable, much easier to attract and retain engineering

talent in India. There is a lot of cost that is come along with

that, and so in a perfect world wouldn't have had to have done that,

but that was certainly the position we found ourselves in.

I think that was probably -- I think I hit my -- Alex has heard

me give this spiel before, but this is something that I'm passionate

about.

One of the things I thought about is I was thinking about today

is out of those four levels, three of those four, I think, are

primarily directed to technical degrees, what I would consider to be

two-year degrees. I just don't think, as a region, we can have

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enough people who have those type of technical skills. Those are the

bedrock of people who can solve problems that have a technical bent

to them.

I always believed, when I use today do a lot of sales work, you

needed some catchy phrase. My pitch for today is I wish we were here

talking about changing the name of Pima Community College to Pima

Technical College. I say that a little bit tongue-in-cheek, but in

part serious. That idea that I believe that from a community

two-year degree perspective, the thing that will have the most

profound impact economically on this region is going to be technical

education because it is so much more accessible than going on from a

four-year perspective.

>> SPEAKER: (off microphone.)

We basically sought out people with increased levels of

education. It's benefited our company a lot. I have seen our

productivity increase about 75% in the last dozen years.

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I like a lot of what I see from Pima College, but I would like to

see it continue to progress.

>> SPEAKER: Ian, let me add briefly, so essentially as a college

you have many stakeholders, certainly you have the transfer students,

the college bound, four-year bound degrees. You have workforce needs

for those that will go into the workforce right after a two-year

program or technical program, and you have enrichment courses for,

like the one I took, I guess it's been a while, but the point is all

of these are key stakeholder needs from a community perspective.

What I would offer, submit to you today is we need a rebalance to

assure that the workforce needs of our members are met.

Clearly the highest, the two most important priorities that our

members face are access to capital and capital formation issues, cash

flow, money, and the second is the talent that comes with that. You

have got to have the skill, the workforce available in the pool, and

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I will tell you a little secret that happens in this region. They

might not tell you, but they end up borrowing from each other's

workforces very often, and that is not healthy for the overall

economy, right? That's why it's very important to reprioritize to

the extent possible the workforce development component as a priority

for Pima Community College.

We can do two more rapid-fire questions if you commit to

rapid-fire.

>> SPEAKER: I think that Scott's addendum to No. 1 really sort

of covers No. 3, so I will skip No. 3 for now and go to No. 2. Let's

get a little more granular about the skills gap. For the

nonmanufacturers in the crowd, employers often describe the skills

gap between the skill sets of applicants for the jobs in their

companies and the skills required for those jobs. What does the

skills gap look like for your particular company?

>> SPEAKER: So I don't want to be redundant. I think Doug

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really covered most of the similar types of skills that our folks

need, and he brought up a really good point that I didn't touch on.

We do a lot of low-level assembly, okay, and generally, you know, we

train them to do it, meaning reading drawings and, you know, putting

things together, being able to work, do the work instructions

properly.

We don't necessarily have a requirement that, where we are

looking for some type of certificate or level of education at that

level. Now, if we had that available to us, that would be great. It

would save training dollars and rework and be able to kind of have a

little bit of assurance, because we have a lot of turnover. I can't

really emphasize enough how painful that is for our local businesses

to hire and then either terminate for cause or terminate because the

individual leaves for whatever reason. There is a tremendous amount

of turn, and it's very expensive and very frustrating and very

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inefficient.

So from a gap standpoint, I guess I will touch on, you know, a

couple of areas around, you know, we have, in our repair and overall

service, FAA type test technicians, those types of things, where we

could really use skills, that's an area where we have a lot of

turnover, end up going through Aerotek and bringing in people from

wherever we can find them. Also in the quality assurance area is

another place, high turnover. I believe there is some type of

curriculum already within Pima that does have some focus on that, but

that's another area where we have a lot of problems, as well, in

addition to the ones Doug highlighted earlier.

>> SPEAKER: From the perspective of math, it would be really

helpful if people had the ability to do what I would do basic algebra

and an understanding of basic geometry. Those are really important

in terms of the ability to understand drawings and what you're

looking at on a drawing and just the logic that goes along with that.

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And then I suppose the only other thing would be, you know, you'd

like to be hiring people that have the chance to stay with the

organization and grow with your organization.

That would also mean that people, even somebody at a technician

level would have an understanding of what I would call practical

physics. I'd make the pitch that that needs to be taught using

inquiry-based learning, that type of hands-on learning to be

effective at that level.

>> SPEAKER: I don't really have anything to add to that.

>> SPEAKER: I know that Doug was hoping for some time to drill

down on what's embedded in No. 5, so if we could dwell there for a

little bit. That questions reads regarding industry recognized

credentials, licensures and certifications, what is the AZ Technology

Council's members positions on embedding those in college curricula,

what is the ideal CTE and/or STEM education paradigm look like in

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that context for a community college? Industry-recognized

credentials.

>> SPEAKER: So I guess I mentioned it earlier, and I don't

believe that Pima has any kind of Associate's in applied science. Is

that correct?

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: (off microphone.)

>> SPEAKER: More specifically around electronics areas or

Associate's in applied science. I didn't see it.

>> SPEAKER: So currently in instrumentation and electrical

technology and/or megatronics advanced manufacturing, those programs

are being developed under our TAACCCT IV grant program and those are

being developed for Downtown Campus building off an electrical

utilities certificate and degree that was built under a prior grant.

So building off of some work we have done for TEP and Southwest Gas

but now we will be expanding that advisory committee to Scott's

earlier question and bringing in some of these types of companies to

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better inform our E and I program development. Electrical and

instrumentation. It's not on the current, current list

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: Let me address how the tech programs here

at Pima have evolved, particularly under an environment of declining

resources. Political institutions are choice averse, so the tendency

is when money starts getting tight, you start peanut buttering the

resources around. I think that has weakened our technology programs

significantly and some other programs, as well.

We are now taking a look at how we restructure them, how we

refocus them, how we make them more effective, but along with that,

we will have to make some choices about what to do and what not to

do. That's where it always gets a little bit more difficult.

So one of the things we have had over the years is tech advisory

committees that are kind of small and narrowly focused on certain

programs. One of questions that I'd like you guys to think about,

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and the board to think about, is whether or not to have a broader

industry tech advisory committee that isn't married to one particular

industry or one particular technology but, you know, in general,

there are certain things you want out of a laboratory technician or

assembler.

It wouldn't just be the thing Raytheon wants or the thing that

the optics industry wants, or the employer who happens to hire a

bunch of people right away. We want to have a more regular supply of

basic qualified technicians coming up.

>> SPEAKER: I'm going to give you a short opportunity to give

you my story and why that question was important. When I graduated

high school, I didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up, I went

to work for an electronic manufacturer, sitting in a work cell

soldering wires to circuit cards I had no clue what they did. My

employer at the time had offered, you know, to pay for some classes

at the community college, which I accepted. I did that for

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approximately two semesters, and fell in love with electronics.

So the community college I chose had an Associate's in applied

science and electronics. Okay, great. I will go get a two-year

certificate.

So while I was doing my two-year certificate, I was a year into

it and I learned Purdue University had a transfer program where they

accepted my credits from my community college. At that point I knew

I wanted to finish the Associate's and was fairly certain I wanted to

go on for my Bachelor's. Those are the bread crumbs that I'm talking

about.

So I went to Purdue, I started working towards finishing

Associate's and said, screw it, I'm going go for the Bachelor's. So

I earned 300 of the 330 credits ultimately either through transfer or

with Purdue, West Lafayette.

After that, I was able to gain a job in electronics, did the MBA,

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worked at a bunch of companies, and, you know, 20 years later I'm

running a business.

So the point is is that I believe there is a lot of people in

Tucson who fall into that category of, you know, I'm pretty smart but

I'm not really sure what I want to do when I grow up. The path of

least resistance is a community college where can you go in there,

take courses while you're working, and if you're lucky and you have

some type of transfer program or at least the initiative to finish

that out with the path of moving up, who knows? There is a lot of

smart kids in Tucson. There is a lot of good schools now, right?

They could really use that advantage. That's why it's passionate

to me to be here today. I will get off my soap box, but I thought it

was important to at least give you that perspective.

>> SPEAKER: Could you tell us, tech council's role with our

advisory boards and councils and what's working and maybe what's not

working, because if there are -- what I'm hearing -- some of the

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things I'm hearing today I hope would get resolved at that level if

there are specific needs inside of a program there would be an

opportunity. If there is something not working, could you sort of

explain to us -- I guess it's two questions.

>> SPEAKER: Sure. Well, the first is I welcome very much the

idea. You know, it's up to us to roll up our sleeves and continue to

delve deeper on these issues so that we can have more success stories

like Phil's and several others at similar stature as his have had

very similar experiences.

So, first, we do have 12 standing statewide committees that deal

from anywhere from information technology issues that we are

currently working with Ian, in fact, on tech hire grant opportunity,

exploring that, to women in the workforce, to capital formation, to

entrepreneurship. Across the board we have existing statewide

committees that dive into these issues and they bubble up to the

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respective organizations.

Frankly, when it comes to Southern Arizona, we could do a little

bit better. Essentially what we are talking about here is

fine-tuning the alignment between what's happening in the classroom

and what these guys need on the shop floor every single day in

closing that gap in both directions so that, you know, real-world

curriculum is the norm, is the standard.

So the issue of having outside experts that are in industry every

single day they are seeing what the gaps are and what the issues are

and where the students are when they graduate, I think we could do a

better job at closing that.

>> DR. SYLVIA LEE: One of the questions that I have for our

leaders here today is would it benefit the industry here if we

brought all of you together to help design the curriculum that you

specifically need? And I think we are doing that with customized,

but it sounds like, if I'm hearing you correctly, you all have some

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kind of a baseline need, but perhaps there is specializations in

each. What I don't know is are we in the process of developing

curriculum and attaching it to an Associate's of applied science that

could help you? .

>> SPEAKER: The one thing that I would avoid doing is trying to

make it too specific to a particular industry. I think a lot of the

really critical skills really transfer across most of the businesses,

whether it's optics, could be solar, it could be aerospace, could be

defense. I think there is a Common Core -- sorry. (Laughter.)

I think there are some fundamentals that cut across all of those

things that can be effectively taught and in particular done in the

context of what I would think of as a two-year program.

>> DR. SYLVIA LEE: So would that be helpful if we were to

-- maybe we are already doing that, but bringing them in to help

design that? Maybe our college leaders can answer that.

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>> SPEAKER: So I believe that we have faculty that I think would

benefit from conversations with business and industry about, you

know, the items that you mention here I believe can be embedded in,

as part of the objectives of what we have in our curriculum. But if

our faculty have an opportunity to hear from all of you what it is

that you are looking for, they can share that information with

students about exactly why do I need math? When am I ever going to

use algebra? We have two math faculty that are sitting here that can

use, that can use this as part of the discussion when they are

talking with students.

So I think any time that we have an opportunity to have these

exchanges, it benefits the student, because the more student -- the

more faculty understand what it is that you're needing and where the

gap is, it can be embedded into the curriculum.

We are doing it, to some extent, in bringing in industry to help

us build curriculum. We did that with TEP to build some of those

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credentials. That has been successful. So we can continue with

that.

To your point about not knowing what to do when you grow up,

where are all of you as far as apprenticeships or internships?

Because those would be excellent opportunities for our students to

learn more about what you do and how they would fit in there. That

way the relevance comes back into play when they are back in the

classroom.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: I have something to add on to that, as well.

As a public institution, we have masters, taxpayers we are

responsible to them, the universities ask us to provide curriculum

for transfer, certainly industry tells us, here's what we need, but

let's face it, we are primarily driven by what students want from us.

How do you get the message across to the general public and judge

people in particular about the jobs you have? I mean, I speak as a

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former high school counselor who, some of these jobs I have never

even heard of, maybe I wasn't as well informed as I should have, but

how do you do that? And these apprenticeships would tie into that.

Maybe you could speak to that.

>> SPEAKER: Our company -- I'd like to say that we have

committed to lots of different internships or something like that.

The fact of the matter is maybe about three or four years ago when

the SAMP program got going, the SAMP, Southern Arizona Manufacturing

Program got going. I think we have committed to a total of three

interns over the years. We know there are roughly 35 kids or so in

the program. We know there are roughly 25 or 30 companies involved.

So I have been trying to commit to one each year regardless, for

example, this last summer I didn't really need one, and I took in one

of my machinists and I put him elsewhere in the company where he

could be helpful just to make sure that we, you know, helped out Pima

College in that regard.

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That said, I guess my commitment, although it hasn't been to so

much taking in interns, and I'm unaware of how I could do that

through other programs, by the way, it's been more in terms of

encouraging my workforce to go back to school, you know, on my dollar

effectively to get reimbursed, and I have found that to be extremely

helpful, and I kind of feel like if the program that AGM is using

were used, you know, city wide, county wide, you could probably fill

up all the seats that you have at Pima College, because for us to

have 24% of our workforce returning, taking at least one or more

classes each year, is a testament to the fact that there is a lot of

people who are interested in using education to get ahead.

That's another thing we do is when I see, when people have taken

the time to take courses, I look at that in terms of at the time of

raise reviews and things like that. I would potentially be open to

doing other internship opportunities with Pima College if I was aware

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of such.

>> SPEAKER: To my knowledge, I don't know that we have had any

interns from Pima. We certainly had a number from U of A. In fact,

we have hired several of them since I have been there, and that's

worked out well.

If we had the opportunity to hire some, for some the roles that

we have been discussing earlier, whether it's assembler or

technician, we would absolutely entertain it.

I will tell you something, it's unfortunate but true with some of

the bigger companies and that constraint is that when a company is

looking at head count, the interns count, if you can believe that.

So if they are working less than 50% of a typical period, then they

might count as a partial to none. If they were working full time,

they actually count as a full-time head. Whether they are making

150,000 or 16 bucks an hour. That's just a fact we have to live with

and manage. If it were up to me solely, I'd fill the building with

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them.

But that's just one of the constraints you have in large public

companies, the way they count force. I just want to share that.

>> SPEAKER: I would say we absolutely need many more

apprenticeships and much more by way of internships in this region,

without a doubt. Whether it's life sciences or cyber security or, I

mean, these companies, the technology, transformation that's

happening within our region is phenomenal, phenomenal, but getting

the word out is always a challenge. Inspiring the students in the

pipeline today is not easy, because there is no systematic way of

sort of getting them to see what innovations are happening in their

own backyard, if you will.

And yet we do have programs that we are using to try to get the

word out more, and certainly students are always welcome at all our

events, whether they are these specific after 5:00 mixers, as I

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mentioned earlier, where the companies themselves open their

facilities to provide tours and share the innovations they are

working on, to a whole host of events that we support like the

Arizona science tech festival, thousands of events under that. There

are so many of them.

The key, I think, is helping support the smaller and midsized

companies in our region to take on more apprenticeships and

internships. What I hear from them is bringing on an intern takes on

additional requirements. You have to manage them. You have to

provide the oversight. If you can pay them, then that's budget set

aside, as well. So it's not as simple as one might think to bring on

an intern.

Yet the interesting thing is that once they do actually bring on

an intern, intern performs, they get hooked. They get hooked and

they bring them back semester after semester after semester.

Ours is simply that we have to encourage it much more. The

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University of Arizona through their enrollment, there is one division

that is trying to centralize matchmaking between interns, students,

and companies, as well. And we have played a small role with that.

Perhaps Pima Community College could plug into it, as well, as an

opportunity for Pima College students.

>> SPEAKER: The only thing I would add, I think, is we had

interns both from high schools, San Miguel and did some work with

JTED. All of those were successful. I really think one of the

things that needs to be done is more just to use the term marketing

to high school students about the career opportunities available to

them that are associated with technical or broadly hard science style

focus and going on and just getting -- I don't want to use that

phrase. Going on and getting a two-year degree that is directed to

either technology or to the sciences.

I would always choose to hire a person who has shown the

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commitment to go get that versus somebody who hasn't even if their

skills don't perfectly match up. There's just that critical thinking

that comes from what I think of as the discipline thinking associated

with science, technology, math.

>> DR. SYLVIA LEE: Arizona State has a Baccalaureate in applied

science, but to my knowledge, University of Arizona hasn't gone that

route. One of the things that would help us, because I see some real

opportunities to partner with University of Arizona, especially if

they were to go that route, we could tack on a lot of specific, seems

to me, our two-year associate applied science going directly into the

four-year.

So you all are heavy hitters in this community. If you apply

that kind of pressure on the University of Arizona to not only think

that a Bachelor's is the only way to go, Bachelor's of applied

science would be a tremendous asset in this community.

>> SPEAKER: Boy, I agree with that and the only thing I would

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say is I back that up to junior high or high school. I think we have

to start younger. Not everybody is going to go get a four-year

degree, and you still want to get people hooked into STEM and that

mindset.

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: Demion asked what the Arizona Technology

Council's role in our advisory committees are , and I believe you

don't have a role yet.

I mean, I'm sure you have some members who are, but --

>> SPEAKER: We'd love to and be willing to play but we are

currently not playing.

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: Okay. And I forgot my other question.

>> SPEAKER: Just to your point, I guess I would ask, you know,

maybe it would be appropriate coming down the pike, as we have these

study sessions, for staff to bring forward analysis of how our

community advising committees are operating, and if they are not

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operating as effectively as possible, that we can reexplore how to

ensure that they really -- we have the right complexion of industry

partners to make sure we are really addressing and responsive to

needs.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: I'd like to keep us on time here. We have

some other stuff to cover.

Perhaps Ian, could you maybe summarize some of the things we

talked about, and -- I'm sorry.

>> SPEAKER: I just wanted to kind of piggyback on what Alex had

said about, you know, high school is a great place to start the

marketing, because interestingly enough, I took, they had like it

wasn't shop class but it was electronics, and that's kind of where my

interests started, and then you can see how this progresses. Getting

in there for those kids, there are those kids going to four year,

freshman year, kids could never dream of going to college, and kids

in the middle not sure what they want to do or can't afford what they

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want to do. And getting them in high school interested in Pima and

saying, here is a road map for you if you choose to follow it, it's a

great, great place to start.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Say, we need your help in being specific.

Here's the jobs. You know what makes sense to high school kids? How

much money am I going to make? I'm telling you.

And you guys can do that. I mean, obviously -- yeah. So I would

say that I'm so glad you folks are here. Really opens our eyes to a

lot of things we could be and should be doing, and helpful all

around, helpful for us, helpful for you, most importantly helpful to

our students.

So if we can kind of pull some of this stuff together that we

talked about today instead of walking around, saying that was a nice

conversation, but it never happens, and then put some action, put

something in action, then I would really like to see that happen.

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Anybody else want...

>> SPEAKER: I just want to thank Chancellor Lambert for his

support of pulling this together as well as Dr. Lorraine Morales and

her advice and guidance in this process, and my colleague, Alex

Rodriguez, for the time he's put into this and for each of the CEOs

who are here today, for your time. We know you are very important.

You are the job creators, job sustainers of this region, and we thank

you for taking the time to share what's on your heart and minds with

us with regard to workforce development.

Thank you, board, for your time and for listening and asking

great questions.

>> SPEAKER: President Hanna, members of the board, first of all,

thank you for your service, thank you for being our voice within the

community college.

Chancellor Lambert, the whole team, Ian, Lorraine, we appreciate

this opportunity very much. We are here to stay. We are not going

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anywhere. We are in this, just like you guys, and so we welcome an

opportunity to continue with alignment issues around workforce, and

how to improve our economy overall. Very important piece of the

overall puzzle.

Thank you to the CEOs of the Arizona Technology Council member

companies today, appreciate your time, and thank you again.

(Applause.)

>> SPEAKER: Thank you so much.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: We will take a very short break, and then we

will move on from there.

(recess.)

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Okay, folks. Let's get back together here so

we can try to stay on track. We have a very important subject to

cover here next.

All right. So if we can get everyone back here at the table and

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get started on our next topic, which is extremely important. It is

really the future of our college in almost every aspect our

educational and facilities master plan, so we will wait until Scott

returns here.

Okay. So let's get started here. Our educational and facilities

master plan. Bill, take it away.

>> MR. BILL WARD: Just wanted to let everybody know there is a

time delay so when our team talks or you ask them a question, just

give them a little bit.

We have, for everybody in the audience, we have posted the total

packets that relate to the educational and facilities master plan as

to where we are today, and we have also done an assessment on

automotive. Those are located on the facilities Web page. If you

want to look at it, it's there. Then to let the board know, when

they gave the last presentation, to us, to the executive team, it's

about two-and-a-half hours long. So what we are doing is a condensed

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version so they will be talking for about 30 minutes or so, and then

hopefully you guys have had an opportunity to look at the packets and

stuff that we sent out the other day, and then you can ask your

questions that way.

So, Frank, why don't we get things started. Introduce the team

that's there today. Here is our board of directors. Ready to go?

>> SPEAKER: I can hear you. Appreciate it.

Quick introduction in terms of our planning functions.

>> SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) we are broadcasting on this leap

year from Michigan. I'd like to introduce my colleagues, Michael and

Warren. (Indiscernible).

My colleague from Phoenix, Eddy Garcia. I will keep my comments

brief. We have important content to go through with you this

evening. We last spoke with you in November when we updated you on

not only educational but facility master plan. We expect to cover

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four components of what you received in your board packet earlier.

The first component will be Frank talking about building our

educational master plan. His comments will be poignant and be able

to (indiscernible). Important one for the future of Pima.

Then Michael will be delivering the next one. Geographic

information systems, GIS analysis. Student mapping. What those are

telling us.

Third component will be delivered by Eddy Garcia in Phoenix.

Focused on the Downtown Campus. And then we will go through the next

steps and the schedule (indiscernible).

The sister facilities master plan.

I'm going to go to mute, and we will allow Frank to migrate

through the findings of the educational master plan.

>> SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Well, again, I appreciate the

opportunity to go through some of the analyses that we have done with

the board. From this perspective, I'm going to go ahead and -- I'm

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not seeing any of the presentation at all in terms of the... there

you go. Now I'm seeing it. That's great. Thank you very much.

I'm going to talk through a couple of different components of the

educational master plan process. We were on campus a little less

than a month ago, and during this time, we presented quite a bit of

analyses. From that perspective, the two major components of the

educational master plan were what we call the student educational

services test and the market analysis test. You can see each of the

steps along the way. Again, make it very clear that we are only at

the analysis phase. The next phase in our process will really start

to look at working with the educational master plan committee and

developing recommendations.

When we go ahead to the next slide, last time we met with the

board you had asked us to look at more of a holistic perspective in

terms of industry and population growth. We worked with the Arizona

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office of employment and statistics and also economic modeling

specialists international and basically started to better understand

the differences between Arizona as a state, the Phoenix MSA, Tucson

MSA, metropolitan area. I think it's important all sectors for the

most part had some gains in net job growth in the last year, and you

can see the Tucson growth rate is lower than the overall state in

Phoenix metropolitan statistical area growth rate. I think the other

thing that's important is for the most part, the Tucson growth rate

was revised in 2014 and it's expecting a little bit slower growth

rate in the Tucson area than in the Phoenix area.

Next slide. We also looked at a couple different ways in terms

of the population. So from this perspective, we know, going out 10,

15, sometimes, you know, to 2035, 2040, that the population growth

right now is really going to be about 1.8% to 2.1% per year what is

predicted. When you look at 2015 to 2030, it's roughly about a 21,

almost 22% is what's predicted, that that's a slower population

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growth than what we have seen in the past, and from what we

understand from various demographic entities is simply because of the

immigration from Mexico and lower growth in those particular areas is

suppressing the population in the future.

I should also say that the population projections by age when you

start to look out, that different age cohorts are expected to grow at

different rates. So you can see in terms of the 65 to 74 age cohort

is growing more considerably than the 15 to 19 or 20 to 24 age

cohort. I think the other thing that's important to understand is

that the overall Tucson and the related areas will continue to

increase in diversity. We can look at it in terms of Hispanic and

non-Hispanic populations and predict by 2045 they will almost be

equal.

So we now get into what we call the EMSI gap analysis, and this

is a report that was developed specifically for Pima Community

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College. It tends to be a rather lengthy report so I will only go

through a couple of the tables, but what's important here to

understand from this gap analysis is what we are trying to do

basically look at how this information can help us align programs

with workforce needs.

So from that perspective, EMSI starts out with employment

concentration from industry, that's called the location quotient.

What you see there in 2015 with the green arrows is the established

focus areas for the Tucson, Pima County, with respects to those that

are higher than the national average.

So from this perspective, utilities, real estate, also looking at

administrative and support, waste management, healthcare, social

assistance, government, currently in Pima County are higher than what

we would typically see in the national industries.

Now, I think what's important to understand is that these

particular sectors will be changing in the next 10 years. You can

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see in utilities and also in real estate, administrative and support,

those are predicted, the LQ is predicted to decline over the next ten

years. As some decline, others get larger in terms of construction,

retail, transportation and warehousing, finance and insurance are all

predicted to have a greater sector concentration than what they do

now.

Next slide, please. So these are some of the things that came

out of the EMSI gap analysis. Again, the full report was included in

your materials. What you can see here is what we call the average

annual openings in the next ten years. These are workers with some

college and above. This again is for Pima County.

From this perspective, you can see in terms of the various --

>> MR. BILL WARD: Hey, Frank. One moment. We had a question.

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: Can you go back to the last slide.

>> SPEAKER: Oh, sure.

Page 56 of 110

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: One before that. With the green and red

arrows.

Explain to me the green arrows again. Does that mean we have

like, say, bottom line there on government is 1.31, does that mean we

have, you know, 30% more government employees than elsewhere in the

state or elsewhere in the state or elsewhere in the country or do we

have 30% government -- 30% more government openings available? I

just want to make sure I understand what the indicators really mean.

>> SPEAKER: Absolutely. That's a good question. What you see

here, let's take government. What's included in the government right

now is also the aerospace and defense, which is why it's high right

now.

So you can see that in terms of the overall number.

But the LQ, location quotient, is basically when it's 1, it's

basically you have equality with, in this case, not so much with the

state but with industries nationwide. So this information basically

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represents not only the State of Arizona but also all of the other

states, as well.

So from this perspective, I think you're right. These are

relative index numbers, but when you look at it, you could say that

1.31 is roughly 30% higher than a 1. So you can look at that as a

31% greater concentration of industries or sectors or employees in

this particular area in Pima than, say, a national average.

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: Okay.

>> MR. BILL WARD: We had a quick question on that last slide

that you mentioned. If you can go back to it real quick.

A question from the audience. The next one. Go back. To where

it had -- is that supposed to be EQ or LQ.

>> SPEAKER: It's LQ. It's location quotient.

>> MR. BILL WARD: Thank you.

>> SPEAKER: What you're seeing here is basically part of what we

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call the gap analysis. Now, a gap is in essence an undersupply of

completers, and a surplus is an oversupply. In this case you're

seeing the blue bar is actually the gap, the black bar is the demand,

and the sort of the gray area which is difficult to see is the

supply.

So again, you have to refer to the report to get more of a

holistic understanding of this, but from this perspective, you can

see here the top gaps in terms of undersupply of completers.

Now, when you look at this, what it's saying there is that let's

take retail and retail operations that there were just a few of those

types of degrees or certificates, and this information comes from

three years of what we call IPEDS completion data that the EMSI

analyzed. What they are saying is there is a gap of 1347. You can

see the gray bar does start to show up a little bit, especially into

the last three, and that gray bargain is the number of graduates.

The demand is the number of positions or employees needed in that

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particular program or job category, and then the difference between

the two.

So when you look at what EMSI did, there were 96 certificate

programs that they analyzed, 62 of them had a gap between the number

of awards and workforce needs, but then also you can see the programs

with the largest oversupply of completers. I think, first of all,

you have to interpret that information with some caution. You know,

as we go through this, especially when I start to work more with the

educational master plan committee, there are things that obviously

are needed to take into consideration, you know, when you look at

your fire science, we know that Public Safety Institute is just not

training Pima County workers. It's more of a regional approach.

Here with EMSI was to look more at the demand for Pima County. Some

of these particular programs have a broader reach, and reach beyond

the county. So that information, in terms of that gap, is not as

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viable as it would if it was just a program that catered to, say, a

local Tucson area.

So those are some of the things we need to keep in mind as we

move forward.

The next one talks about Associate's degree level programs. You

can see here the EMSI analyzed 54 Associate programs. They said 22

are undersupplying the markets. You can see in terms on the

right-hand side the programs with the largest oversupply of

completers annually. Again, caution needs to be exercised here, as

well.

So when you look at the top gaps, can you see at the top in terms

of the bar graph, administrative assistants, restaurant, criminal

justice, so forth, here you can see how the three work together in

terms of the demand, supply, and the gap.

I think as we move forward, again, the goal will be to put some

what we call reality to this particular analyses, and see how each of

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these programs is serving their local and more regional needs and

take that into consideration as we move forward.

So those programs that did not match with the number of degrees

granted or completions, basically came into areas of opportunity. So

from this perspective, you can see in terms of the number of 2015 and

2025 jobs and projected annual openings, now, some of those are

supplied by Pima's Center For Training and Development. So from that

perspective, when you start to look at these surgical tech and

nursing assistants, there is annual openings there, but they are

currently being filled by programs on the training and workforce

side. Same thing with medical transcriptionists, the reason they are

not showing up is simply because they are clock hour programs as

opposed to credit programs and they are not supplying to the federal

government as part of IPEDS.

You can see right here areas where potential future programs

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could be developed by the college, but again, the next step is to

really start to think through this and understand how the college can

put these in what we call a framework, and then from that framework

start to understand, you know, if there truly is a need in the

community for these particular areas.

When you look at the gap analysis, again, it's one tool of I

think many we are going to have to look at. We also have to look at

comprehensive economic development strategy by the City of Tucson.

We also have to look at the Sun Corridor economic goals, and a

variety of other components that are in play as you move forward.

But from this perspective, and this particular piece of analysis,

there were 86 programs, undersupply market demand. Greatest area

moving forward, you can see biggest gap areas, business, culinary

arts, healthcare programs, and then you can see in the EMSI gap

analysis, they dug a little deeper in some areas and started to

identify jobs, annual openings for some of the more applied

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technologies, and you can see here in terms of mobile heavy

equipment, mechanics, automotive service technicians, bus and truck

mechanics, diesel specialists, when you start to dig down into the

data in the report, it starts to really start to illuminate some of

these positions where I think Pima Community College starts to take

advantage in some of these programs.

I think that's the next step as we start to use this data and

other information that we have gleaned to come back to the campus,

work with the educational master plan committee and really start to

tackle some of these different areas in terms of workforce needs and

supply.

The next piece of this will talk about strategies and best

practices.

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: I have another question.

>> SPEAKER: Go ahead.

Page 64 of 110

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: On the last chart, gap analysis, you have

a number of rows that are highlighted in red. Explain what that is.

>> SPEAKER: Those are simply pointing out some of the areas that

have a rather robust number of annual openings that are programs, for

the most part, that I think are potential opportunities for Pima

Community College.

So understanding that there is automotive service technician and

mechanic program right now but there is still again demands in that

area I think when we get into this a little further, start to look at

the diesel engine specialist as well as mobile heavy equipment there

are some possibilities there, as well.

Aircraft mechanics and service technicians, aviation program does

an excellent job with that. There is continued demand for this.

This just helps us to understand where some of the applied

technologies and so forth can be.

I think you're also seeing on this particular analysis that

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carpenters, plumbers, structural iron steel workers, that this

construction component is viable and that Pima Community College I

think has an opportunity there in working with various partnerships

to begin to understand how they can deliver more of those students to

the marketplace.

Any other questions? Great.

Let's go ahead and move on through some of the other material.

The next piece of this is what we call a program strategy or

framework, and there was a reference in the request for proposal to

basically look at developing a strategy framework for how new

programs are placed or distributed among the various campuses.

So one of the things that we did was that the institution, Pima

Community College, has a variety of peers in what we call comparison

institutions, so we went out and looked at how programs are

structured on each of those different campuses.

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I should also say that there is quite a bit of research

literature out there with regards to how programs are distributed in

a multicampus environment, and you can probably realize that a lot of

the community colleges around the country have multicampus components

in understanding how programs are basically placed on those

particular campuses is something that needs to be also reviewed.

So in essence there were three different strategy frameworks that

in essence we used or currently use. The focused that you see on the

left-hand side, you can see in terms of what that is basically that

programs are exclusive to each site with little overlap. When you

look at the various other colleges, they are very similar in those

particular areas.

The middle, centers of excellence, this is a framework strategy

that is employed by numerous community colleges across the country.

Two that were studied in depth were in Cleveland and St. Louis

Community College. You can see some of the key areas here. If you

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really start to look at this, the centers of excellence I think is

not only a research model, it's a national model. It has widespread

recognition in terms of programmattic offerings and so forth.

The last one on the right-hand side is what we call distributed.

This is in essence the case from Central Piedmont Community College,

El Paso Community College, and what you can see there are similar

programs concentrations are distributed on different campuses. This

is good for what we call program progression, program access, so from

that perspective, you may have a slightly different business emphasis

on two or three different programs, and then develop a full

contingency of business programs on each of those different campuses.

So that again is a proposed strategy framework. It's something

that we are going to have to look at and address in more detail when

I come back to campus to really understand if this applies to Pima

Community College but more importantly if this makes sense,

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especially as we look at how to look at programs in the future.

The next piece of this is what we call a program strategy

framework. This comes directly out of the literature on community

colleges, especially multicampus systems.

So the question that this answers is, you know, how are new

programs, how can they be integrated into existing program structure.

So there is really two ways that research says that institutions can

do that. One is we call the vertical program extension and the other

is horizontal extension. This comes out of operations and marketing.

So I think this is pretty much an application of some operational

concepts that are very powerful in business. So vertical program

extension is very similar to what you have for aviation technology.

You have a core program and underneath that core program you have

basically various facilities, faculty expertise, and you see each of

these mechanics, airframe, powerplant, all taught in the same

facilities, in some cases by the same faculty, but more important

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there is a cost savings there because there is ability to share space

and faculty expertise and so forth.

Now, when you get to a program, a horizontal program extension,

it's a little bit different. The example I have here is for

healthcare programs, allied health programs. You can see for each

one of these, this represents an occupational cluster. Each of those

programs requires specialized equipment, training, faculty expertise,

more difficult to share equipment and physical resources. So if

you're going to add on to that group, it's going to be more expensive

because more than likely you need more specialized equipment, a

laboratory, you have to hire faculty with expertise in a given area.

So again, these are just, at this point, ideas about how we could

take some of the programs at Pima Community College and especially

existing programs but more importantly any new programs and integrate

them into the existing framework.

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The next page, this is an example of vertical extension. Can you

see here in terms of digital and creative arts. This was very

popular and still is very popular. A lot of community colleges have

vertically extended creative arts. A lot of those in essence end up

being what we call stackable credentials or certifications. You can

see that in this particular perspective, this is also good for

continuing education. Faculty tend to cluster in some of these

areas. They tend to be knowledgeable and can teach in more than one

of these areas, so your existing faculty can incorporate quite a few

of these into their current curriculum.

And then the good thing here is that there is some shared

resources, greater use of the facilities.

So some of the things can you do in a gaming animation lab you

can also do with digital video, mobile publishing. They pretty much

use the same types of resources and equipment.

As we move forward, one of the things we will do is we are going

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to start to look at each of these different program and campus

strategies, vertical and horizontal extension and start to apply

these to the six locations plus the 29th Street public safety and

emergency service center and see if we can make sense of this

framework, see if we can help to make decisions with regards to

current programs at Pima as well as any new programs that come out of

the analysis.

At this point, again, we are still at the analysis phase and we

are simply just presenting some key concepts and ideas. Next time we

come to campus, we will really start to dig into some of those ideas.

The last piece of this is what we call a best practices, and what

we were asked to do was to go out and look at other community

colleges with respects to programs and in this case it happened to be

best practices and student services. Can you see right there that

the institution in our group basically looked at ten institutions.

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You can see in terms of some of the different characteristics. There

was a requirement for the most part that the FTE and head count in

terms of multicampus system, also in terms of Hispanic Latino

population, and we also looked at the percent below poverty and

whether or not they were Hispanic-serving institution. We developed

the survey with the student services group as well as Dolores and her

group of academic folks. From this perspective you can see in terms

of some of the results of that. I'm not going to go into detail, but

this was a 45-question survey, so I think we have pretty much the

full analysis in the overall presentation, but here you can see

results in terms of student orientation and testing.

And then the next slide gets into some of the advising systems,

especially as it relates to early warning systems, early alert, and

then also types of employees working in services. Here you see in

terms of educational level and professional development

opportunities. Again, it's a fairly lengthy survey, and we are

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basically continuing to work with that, as well.

The last piece of this is integration with the campus master

plan, and here we are starting to understand in terms of the various

facilities. You know, overall how much space would be needed in the

future, given what we are doing.

So what this says is basically in fall 2010, if you look at the

black arrow, you will see a graph that basically says fall semester

FTE, and then you see assignable square feet per FTE. This curve you

see in these little squares is in essence the relationship between a

campus's FTE and their what we call assignable square feet per FTE.

In fall of 2010, Pima Community College had over a million square

feet, almost 20,000 FTE, and basically in essence about 51 assignable

square feet per FTE. In that case, if you see the dark arrow where

it says PCC fall 2010, you were in essence a little bit below the

average.

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Now, what's happened between fall of 2010 and fall 2015, is that

the institution in essence has lost about almost 47, 48% of its

full-time equivalent enrollment. So if we now look at fall 2015 with

existing facilities, we are at about 71 square feet. Red arrow, the

average is roughly about 65. So if we multiply that 65 by that FTE,

it comes up, as you can see there in the bottom, 876,000 assignable

square feet. So I think what we are saying is that there is

potential surplus at this point in time of about 136,000 assignable

square feet. That's in essence between the campuses, between the

District Office, and the other facilities that Pima Community College

uses.

Now, again, this is a very preliminary analysis, and the goal is

to again work through the master plan and look at new programs and a

variety of other things and start to see, you know, what will happen

from that perspective.

But this has to be considered in sort of our strategy as we move

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forward in terms of we've got space on the campuses. We know that.

Some campuses have more space than others. But what we are saying

here in essence is that there is opportunity in most campuses to do

new programs and other things that are going to need to be done

through the educational master plan. In essence, this really test

that is theory and basically it says yes, there is space. It may

have to be retooled or repurposed, but there is space on the campuses

within the district to do some new things that they are not currently

doing.

So the next piece of this is what we call a GIS analysis, and I

know Michael will take the lead on this. This is another piece of

the puzzle, so to speak, in the overall analyses for the educational

master plan.

>> SPEAKER: Thank you, Frank. So what we are looking at is data

that is typically kept in spreadsheets and what we have done is taken

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that data out of the spreadsheets and we have geocoded it and

projected it on to a map of Pima County. Here is the majority of

Pima County here. What you see labeled are the six campuses of Pima

Community College. You also see a lot of blue dots. These blue dots

represent each of Pima Community College's students. So we took the

fall 2015 enrollment data and we were able to map 97% of those

students.

When we had this data, we were able to break it down by certain

attributes. The first attribute we will look at is what campus these

students are attending. We are looking at West Campus here, and each

red dot that you see is a student that attends West Campus for one

credit or more.

I want you it notice there is not much of a geographic trend

here, right? These students are coming from all across the region.

They are not just coming from around West Campus. Similarly, when we

look at the Downtown Campus, we see these yellow dots, these are

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representative of Downtown Campus students. They come from across

the region. West Campus and Downtown Campus are centrally located

campuses. They are sort of regionally easier to access. But they

also offer a multitude of courses that are not offered elsewhere that

draw students to them.

We see a different story when we start to look at these

peripheral campuses. East Campus students, you can notice there is a

strong cluster of students around the East Campus. East Campus is

isolated. There is not another campus within 10 miles of it. So

this is likely the cause for what we are seeing.

When we look at the Community Campus, we see much of what we saw

for West and Downtown Campuses. In that students don't necessarily

seem to be coming directly from an area adjacent but from across the

region. Also, it's important to note that many of Community Campus's

students are taking their courses online, so they don't necessarily

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have to be adjacent to the campus.

Looking at Northwest Campus, similar story to East. This is

isolated, not another campus within eight miles. We see students

coming from the north to the Northwest Campus. And we see with

Desert Vista, it's in South Tucson, we see many of the students

coming from South Tucson. Just to summarize, Pima Community College,

from what we have seen, has three peripheral campuses that seem to

serve its specific subregion of Pima County well and three that serve

the community at large well.

So we also broke the data down by what academic program or major

the student is in line to achieve. So we looked at programs that

were of importance to the educational master plan, one of those being

the automotive program. If you look at the yellow dots, we are

seeing automotive students are coming from across the region. This

tells us that if a student is taking automotive course, they are

willing to somehow travel to the Downtown Campus. Also, the Downtown

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Campus is a centrally located campus, but from a geographic

standpoint it seems to make good sense to host the automotive campus.

Similarly, hotel restaurant students, green, and culinary arts

students, pink, we are seeing these students are willing to travel to

the campus that they need to to take the course that they desire to.

And likewise with the health related and public safety students, with

the exception of a slight clustering of health related and public

safety students, we are seeing these students again are willing to

travel to the campus that they need to.

We just looked at student data. We also pulled census data, so

what we are looking at here are not necessarily Pima Community

College students but everyone within the region, and the first piece

of census data that we looked at was the ethnicity breakdown within

the region and it became clear quickly that there was a strong divide

in this region of where Hispanic and Latino residents live compared

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to other ethnicities. It's almost Interstate 10, you can see in the

top middle of the screen, it goes down to the right and to the

southeast, it's almost a line in the sand that divides this region.

Of course this is going to have a bearing on the student body makeup

of each campus. When we look at Desert Vista Campus, it's in a

strong Latino region, we see one out of two of those students are

Latino compared to Northwest Campus where just one out of four are.

We also looked at the educational attainment of residents in the

area. What you are seeing is a gradient of dots. Green dots are

those who have highest educational attainment in the region. These

are folks with Bachelor degree or higher, and then moving on down to

yellow, orange, red, red being less than high school graduate, and if

you squint at this chart you can see a geographic gradation across

the county. It's also important to note that 40% of the residents in

this area have no more than a high school graduate or equivalency,

and this is really a prime target audience or customer base for Pima

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Community College.

We also looked at the poverty levels throughout the region, so

14% of residents within this region are in poverty, and those are

mapped in pink. If you, again, if you squint at this you can start

to see areas of poverty. Just east of Desert Vista Campus, just

north of the Downtown Campus, and I want you to focus on where these

areas are, because as we switch to the next map, which is actually

the grade point average of your current students, we don't see a

correlation. We saw in the last map there are areas of poverty in

this region, but according to this map of your students, we are

seeing that for the most part students in areas of poverty are doing

fairly well, at least as well as students, other students throughout

Pima Community College.

>> SPEAKER: So wrapping up this quickly, you can see the bullet

points there. We know that the county population is basically

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growing a little slower and becoming older and more diverse. That's

an impact on enrollment growth. We know that the industry sector

concentrations are changing and that will change program demand the

next ten years. We also know there are gaps between the program

completions and the workforce needs, and when we talk to EMSI, these

are the bullet points, three things that they typically see across

community colleges. You can see there in terms of the mismatch,

longer duration of programs, reputation programs, relevancy in

courses. Again, we look at that through the lens of Pima Community

College, but those tend to be the reasons why programs supply and

demand are not more in sync. Michael just talked about the GIS

analysis in terms of campus location, some of the different

demographics, the poverty, income, educational attainment, et cetera,

and basically that information will help us understand that each of

the campuses is different, and may require different levels of

academic support and may require different programs than what are

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currently there. 5 looks at program framework in terms of how to

align programs between campuses and No. 6 looks at student services'

best practices. Again trying to understand what that information

means as we move forward.

>> SPEAKER: I'm going to go ahead and take a look at the

automotive study...

>> MR. BILL WARD: I want to let the board know Dolores would

have been here but she is very much under the weather. She may be

listening. Good. I just wanted to let you know that.

>> SPEAKER: Thank you.

So the next piece is the automotive study, and maybe it was the

luck of the draw, but when you look at all of the things you have

heard thus far between the gap analysis and where students, how they

approach and seek destination programs throughout the district, this

is a pretty good example of how this could all be a culmination of

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what the future can drive, and what one particular program, how it

can impact one particular campus.

So moving to the next slide, what we did was we took a really

high level approach to the automotive program in whole, and we did

meet with the dean, Greg Wilson, a few times to talk through his

program and talk a bit about his vision.

So we came up with three big things, and this is sort of the big

takeaways, and everything after this helps begin to shape the

physicality of what that could be in the future. The big vision

right now is to be a far more competitive program than ever before.

Comprehensive in the sense that it's got to be linked with today's

world and what the needs are from the original equipment

manufacturing and partners. That's the big automotive groups.

Secondly, it was also an opportunity to boost enrollment. I

think it's currently 540 students now but we are talking about up to

700, maybe 800 students. Beyond just taking a class or two but

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looking at or exploring the entire automotive technology courses that

can be held, maybe looking at broadening those courses to include

collision, diesel could be a potential, and looking at alternative

fuels.

On the sort of nontraditional path is looking at how other

technologies can be aligned with it since it's also part of the

building and science technology program on the campus.

So maybe looking at opportunities of design fabrication,

prototyping, instrumentation and so forth.

And really looking at the teaching environments to help evolve

that, so not only that you need to look at newer technologies overall

but increasing the teaching environments to include a broader range.

And a strong desire to stay in the Downtown Campus.

Some of the things we looked at was to do benchmarking, so Frank

was also involved with this, as well. Took some time to look across

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the nation and looked at several other community colleges, Sinclair,

Northwest, so forth, Glendale Community College in Phoenix, which is

part of the Maricopa system.

Looking at industry partners, when you start to look at Ford,

Chrysler, GM, et cetera, each one of them has a specific program, and

with that comes a specific set of needs and requirements from a space

standpoint. As we start to look through all of these different

programs, we came away with an area of 28,000, 35,000 assignable

square feet of area which had included a variety of spaces. Included

program that had classrooms, showroom pieces, faculty offices,

vehicle bays, specialty labs and student amenities amongst the few.

When you start to think about the ingredients I just mentioned,

it gets pretty large. So we picked as an average about 20,500 square

feet as a benchmark to think about your program and shaping it to be

where you'd like it to be in the next ten years.

The color codes you see there are actually just the ingredients.

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That's essentially a raw automotive program minus diesel and special

like small engine and alternative fuels. That's just to get you in

the ball game. That's just for today's purposes.

When you go to the next slide, this is adding in what the diesel

component could be. That's 22, 23,000 square feet to a program. Now

you're starting to see some pretty sizeable square footage dedicated

to these programs, again, looking at the gap analysis and looking at

where the future lies, could be necessary, could be looked at a

couple different ways, but at least you get an idea of how big a

facility like this could be.

To help with that, the next slide starts thinking about the

environments. Regardless of what you do, even though it's an

automotive instructional facility, and it's associated with the

building technology facility on Downtown Campus, you still need to

think about the student environments overall, whether outdoor spaces,

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opportunities for informal learning, cafe or lounge, the quality of

the spaces are key. This is just a way of reminding of not just the

physical impact but also the student environment itself.

Next slide. How does this all begin to shape up? Well, in this

study, we weren't set out to do a design. This was just meant to

give you an idea of the magnitude of what a competitive program in

scale size would be. What you're seeing, couple options on how you

could do this. Option A is just an idea of more of a linear process

of bringing a vehicle in, sort of a main corridor, various bays on

either side of the corridor, you can go to alternate bays, or purple

and white blocks, that's the automotive diesel, and collision areas,

so you can begin to see a threshold between those programs and how

they sort of separate themselves but could be combined together.

Option B is just more of a compact version of the same thing.

This is modeled a little bit like the Glendale Community College, but

essentially the same program. Can you see there is a lot of parts

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and pieces. When you scale them up you get a pretty sizeable

facility.

The next slides begin to show how a footprint can impact the

campus. Taking those blocks and pieces and just placing them on your

campus, we took four options to show you today of what the impact

might be. You can notice by the arrows and you can get a sense of

direction where vehicles would come in, visibility, access, and where

the front door might be. In this case, this is located just to the

north of the science technology building. The opportunities, site

impacts are huge towards draft, it could potentially could cut off

your circulation, internal mall between the old Roosevelt piece to

the science and tech building but nevertheless you get a sense of the

impact of the site. This would just give you an idea what the impact

can be on the campus. The next option is more of a compact version

of what that could be, saving a parcel of land.

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I should preface, too, all these examples we are showing is not

to show you an answer or a solution. Part of what's going to happen

in the next steps down the road on the master plan is thinking about

these things, but this is essentially a study that will help inform

that framework when we get to that.

In this case, you can see how the impact of circulation would be

if you took half a parcel versus two parcels, still saving room for

future development, a lot of visibility, but again have to work with

some circulation.

Next slide shows another option of taking 50,000 square feet

footprint, these are large buildings, very much of a warehouse-type

looking of footprint.

But in this case, it's showing an idea of where the building

could be much more centrally focused to the central part of the

campus, still driving a lot of student engagement between the other

classroom buildings, education facilities, and then looking at this

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as an opportunity for, you know, looking at the western side of the

campus and beginning to extend it more to the west, maybe moving the

center of the campus maybe more to the west.

The last slide is an opportunity to maybe take a look at the

existing parking lot that you have now, although you'd have to move

the solar parking covered spaces now, but it's an opportunity to

think about, and again, the impact of this building would be quite

large.

Again, this was just a study. It's not a solution. It just

gives you an idea of the impact of what one particular program,

destination program, could be on this campus.

Then finally, the last slide gives you an idea of the cost. This

is just a rough order of magnitude. We did get the professional

input of a local Tucson cost estimator to give you a feeling for

apples to apples of what the market could bear. Something of this

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size of a 50,000 square foot building, you can see the numbers.

You're just north of 10 million.

But again, this is just in today's dollars. It gives you an idea

of what a competitive program in today's dollars might be like.

That's the automotive study.

>> SPEAKER: Excellent. Thank you. In terms of next steps we

are nearing the midpoint of the project, and I'd like to highlight on

the last two slides, essentially the steps taking place over the next

few months. From an educational master plan perspective, we will be

working with a committee to review the analysis that we shared with

you today and outline a few of the recommendations from this as far

as opportunities for student success, retention, as well as space

needs and future program recommendations.

One item I'd like to highlight, March 28 and 29 we will be

holding student services best practice forum. Frank will be leading

this, and there is invited guests that's coming in who will be

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working with Pima Community College on student services best

practices.

If we go to the next slide, you can see the master plan schedule.

Frank will be nearing completion of educational master plan in late

March/April. At that time the facilities master plan will be ramping

up again, taking the recommendations that have come out of the

educational master plan and beginning to develop a series of

recommendations from more of a physical campus master plan side in

late spring in order to have a completed master plan to share with

you in late summer, sort of July/August time period.

With that, I'd like to turn it back over to you, Bill, and open

it up to any questions and discussions.

>> MR. BILL WARD: Thanks. I want everyone to know and the

audience when we talk about we are looking at, facilities, we are

looking at everything, all sites, looking at District, M&S, the

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satellite centers, all that.

Open it to the board for questions.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Thanks, Bill. Thanks, folks. This is very

extensive report, lots of information here.

I have a couple of questions just right off the top and then will

pass this along to my colleagues. No. 1 is I was concerned about the

comparison community colleges you used. You matched us in size and

racial makeup, but those colleges from just my quick perusal of them

aren't necessarily the most forward-thinking, highly-rated community

colleges, the kinds of win the Aspen Award, those kinds of things.

I would ask in the future that when you do some of these

comparisons that you not only look at size and similarity but also

the colleges that have really been recognized for their programs in

terms of moving forward and doing a really good job.

That would be important to me.

I also noticed that we just, just before your presentation, we

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had a presentation from folks from what's called the Arizona Tech

Council, and in the categories listed in your presentation, I don't

see a whole lot of tech stuff. There is some, but I don't see a

whole lot of disparity in workforce needs in the tech area.

So there is a lot of blue collar jobs which, that's what we need,

we understand that, but I'm just wondering what's going on in the

tech sector in our particular area and is there an issue there?

I think -- oh, one other question. I will be done here. I'm

assuming that you'll do some of these actual floor plan or design for

some of the other programs, as well? Besides automotive in the

future? Did you get all that?

>> SPEAKER: Yes. I guess in terms of floor plans, the

automotive was a special study I think that had a fee associated with

it. Typically in a master plan we are not getting that deep into

that particular analyses. The space needs analysis will basically

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talk about the amount of space needed. I'm not sure that it will

evolve to a floor plan, but it certainly will talk about the total

amount of space and the capacity needed to incorporate those programs

into the program mix.

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: One of your questions was you don't see a

lot of tech. Part of that is because aerospace and defense, which

fundamentally government funded is under the government category. It

is in their charts.

>> DR. SYLVIA LEE: First of all, I just want to thank all of you

that put all this work into this, because it's a very thorough

document, very well done.

I do have a couple of questions, and it was the slides that

talked about the certificates with the workforce needs. It said 62

have a gap between the number of awards and workforce needs.

So the question that I had, because I'm not quite sure, is that

I'm assuming that that is -- is that a combination between under and

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over? What is the gap on that one?

I don't know what page it is. It's just the EMSI gap analysis.

Figure 2.1.

>> SPEAKER: Yeah. Basically there are -- a gap is basically

where there is, when you look at it, let me get to that information,

a gap is an undersupply of graduates, a surplus is oversupply based

on you can see here in terms of some of the analyses. Michael, if

you go back a few more, can you see in essence this is the workforce

needs for Associate's degree level.

When it says that 22 are undersupplying the market, basically of

those 54 associate programs, that there is more demand in the

workplace than there are graduates for those particular programs.

That's in essence what undersupplying it is. That's in essence

what we call a gap.

So I think, first of all, when we look at this, you know, the

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graph you're looking at right now looks at administrative assistants

and secretarial science. Can you see the gray bars, supply, black is

the demand and the blue bar is what we call the gap, the difference

between supply and demand.

So one of the things you have to keep in mind is that many of

these jobs do not require a certificate or degree. Some of these

jobs can be basically completed by students that either have a high

school degree, can do on-the-job training, a variety of other things.

My guess is there is probably some high school students currently

working in some of these different areas.

So that has to be taken into consideration. I think what's

important as we move forward and start to really dig in and interpret

this analysis is of that gap, what is the true demand for those jobs

that have a livable wage and then do require some type of

postsecondary education to basically get into the workforce?

So from that perspective, I think you're going to see a little

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bit different results. But, you know, overall I think this analysis

is really designed to say that there is some needs in business and

industry and the college probably needs to better align themselves

with some of those different areas.

>> DR. SYLVIA LEE: You mentioned something very important. I

didn't know if I saw it in here. You just said that our actual

certificates and degrees and aligning those with the needs in our

region, I didn't see that in there. Or did I? Because this one, as

you said, are all of the -- they don't necessarily need a degree or

to do this, but will you be doing analysis of what we actually offer

in both the associate and certificate level and what are the job

prospects now and in the future?

>> SPEAKER: Yes, that's basically what most of this is. This is

your data with, in this case, data that's projected out 10 years in

terms of what's going to be needed in business and industry and

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employment.

Now, with that said, I think what I was trying to communicate was

in essence that there's got to be some sifting through the data to

make sure that when we talk about some of these areas that we are

going to have an opportunity to make sure that if we are going to

basically educate students in these different areas that it can be a

viable wage and then second that this is a job that will attract

students to these particular areas and get them some training to go

out and earn a livable wage

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: As I look at the data, when there is that

huge of a gap between supply and demand, there is usually something

else at work like some kind of price elasticity or something like

that, because normally supply meets demand unless there is some other

constraint, and, you know, those jobs may just pay so poorly or the

minimum wage that you have to pay them is so much higher than the job

is worth that they will go unfilled.

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>> SPEAKER: Yes. Yeah, there is a lot of things going on. If

you look at the restaurant culinary and catering management, manager,

there is a huge gap there.

So I think from this perspective, the next step is to really

start to dig into some of the data. You know, the good news is that

EMSI report breaks all these occupations down. These are larger

categories, but within the administrative assistant category there is

a variety of jobs. In this case, working with the data for years and

years, that category comprises probably about 10 to 15 different

types of occupations.

Some of those occupations require postsecondary occupation. Some

they just require high school diploma.

Once we start to pull out some of these, we can start to, you

know, compare more realistically what may be opportunities for the

college.

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>> MR. DEMION CLINCO: Could you talk about the method? I was a

little surprised by seeing the registered nurses was the number one

oversupply when we have a critical shortage in our region and state.

So if you could give us some information on the method in how we are

creating an oversupply.

>> SPEAKER: Well, that's interesting because it's trying to

match supply and demand. What it doesn't take into account is

basically some of those registered nurses will go on and get their

Bachelor's, they will move out of the area and go into various other

fields.

So from that perspective, the registered nurse category is taking

into consideration, there are so many jobs and so many graduates, and

in this case, they are not matching.

But I think, as everyone knows, registered nurse, basically

registered nurse has lots of opportunities. From that perspective,

those programs, those students don't have to go directly to a

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hospital or clinic. They can basically further education, do a lot

of different things. Those are the types of things when we talk to,

you know, the nursing factor if we talk to the dean of allied health,

we can probably get a better perspective of why there is, why the

information is saying these particular things.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Okay. Any further questions from the board?

>> MR. SCOTT STEWART: It would be helpful, I think, if you had

one of those categories, any one of them, I don't care which, that

had some actual specific jobs that would highlight the supply and

demand issue a little bit better. These broad categories, it's just

very difficult to connect with the data.

>> SPEAKER: Yes. I wholeheartedly understand that and agree.

So in fact the material we are working on right now basically

will be coming back to campus next week, next Tuesday and Wednesday,

and in this case we are going to be looking at a little bit different

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components. This is where we are starting to look more at the

individual data instead of these very large types of program

clusters, we will start to dig into the data more realistically.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Again, a timeline for when this next, the

final recommendations will be made, or what's the next step?

>> MR. BILL WARD: What they will be doing is we are thinking

about probably two more of these study sessions, or if more than

that, we will have them, but the goal would be to have this project

totally completed by the end of this summer.

I think the facilities master plans a little further along than

the educational master plan, but as soon as we catch the educational

master plan up then I think the team will be able to apply the

educational to facilities, all of it together. That's our goal is to

have this project completed by the end of the summer.

>> DR. LEE LAMBERT: I just wanted to answer one of the points

you made about the list of schools. So El Paso Community College is

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viewed as a leading community college. I don't want you to think

that all that list isn't comprised of some leading community

colleges. Also, Kahoga, they are doing interesting things,

especially as you look at that older demographic. We can learn from

some of these colleges that -- I started looking some of them up on

here. Just to be aware of that. But also trying to do a size

comparison becomes important, because some colleges, they have the

advantage of being smaller so they can be more nimble and more

focused in certain areas, and so trying to compare our automotive

program to Shoreline, you can't compare them. Any of those programs

don't match to Shoreline. Shoreline is not the size of some of these

schools, either. So you have to keep that in mind.

>> MR. BILL WARD: One other thing I would add and I'd like to

ask the planning team, aren't most of these colleges up here Hispanic

serving institutions?

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>> SPEAKER: Yeah, this was the very first question that was

asked by the board this evening and I'm good we didn't appropriately

answer it. Actually, the first cut we did at this had a very

different cross-section of institutions on it. It did include a

handful of Aspens to institutions, colleagues of yours. I think the

critique came back were not matching what is happening at Pima with

what's happening in our benchmarking.

So, chancellor, to your point, we matched it with urbanity, the

scale of the host city, enrollment size, FTE and head count, overall

size, graduation rates, and then perhaps one of the more important

measures was the Hispanic serving institution status. That's the

genesis of this list.

>> SPEAKER: That's correct. And you're right, Doug. When we

presented a first cut of this based on what we thought was some of

the more innovative community colleges, especially the Aspen Prize

winners, the committee and some of the faculty basically said that's

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not where they wanted to go.

So this list was created with Pima Community College faculty and

the educational master plan committee. It's a little bit different

list than we would have developed, but there was good rationale for

that, and especially as it related to, like you said, Doug, the his

component was very important, but also, they felt that the poverty

level, because it is so high in Pima County, that that was also a

significant factor. Some of the institutions that we had proposed,

especially ones that were very innovative, Santa Fe college, Aspen

Prize winners, had very different demographic makeups, ethnicity and

the areas. Santa Fe college near Gainesville, it's a feeder to

University of Florida, so from that perspective, there was a concern

that we weren't comparing directly with some of their key components

of their student population.

>> DR. SYLVIA LEE: Is it worth looking at, too, you look at the

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graduation rate in Pima at the 150%, we are at 10%, but what is the

actual transfer rate? Because again, a lot of our students move on

and don't get that degree.

>> SPEAKER: Yes. I understand. You know, we have a variety of

different factors that we put up here. One is the transfer rate. We

can also do other IPEDS factors. This is the one that the committee

decided was most important, but, you're right, there are other

factors we can use to compare these institutions.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: I agree with all that, and obviously if the

committee felt that this was more comparable list, but I would just

cautious that, you know, we can reach and especially when we come to

student services and best practices that just because we match up

better with some of these schools doesn't mean that there aren't

other things we could be doing we could excel at. I would cautious

to take a look at some others, as well.

>> SPEAKER: Absolutely.

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>> MR. MARK HANNA: So unless we have any more questions for

those folks, we very much appreciate this information. It's really

helping us shape the future of Pima Community College. I feel very

grateful that we have, we're able to have this type of information to

be able to make decisions that we have to make come up very quickly

in terms of our future and what's the best for our community and most

importantly or students.

We very much appreciate your input and the work you've done on

this and look forward to what's coming next.

>> SPEAKER: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Thank you.

>> CHANCELLOR LEE LAMBERT: Thank you.

>> MR. MARK HANNA: Unless we have anything else, we are

adjourned.

(adjournment.)

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