Black Science

7/30/2019 Black Science

1/8

What does the term occult mean to you? What does the concept of magic mean to you?How do these definitions manifest themselves in your life? How have your own definitions of these words evolved over time? Despite the ways in which you mightgauge your own understanding and interaction, what still remains misunderstood,confounding or frustrating to you with regard to magick?

Well, you could define occult in a lot of different ways, and people do. The term occult stems from the word occluded, so in a pinch it can be summed up as thestudy of things that are hidden, and when you think about it, for any human, thats the majority of the universe. People are thinking around you all the time andyou cant pick up on any of these thoughts, but youd be hard pressed to get anyoneto argue that its not happening. Astronomers tell us that something like 98% of the universe is invisible to us and is comprised of what they refer to as dark matter and dark energy. I find the methodology on that fairly sketchy, but its fascinating none the less.

At the heart of it though, Id say a prototypical magickal practice would involvetwo basic components. One, making contact with extra-dimensional forms of intelligence, which Ive found I can do through things like sex magick and astral projection. A lot of occultists just completely gloss over that because they dont wantto sound like theyre nuts, but thats the most important aspect. Crowley was channeling entire books. Using sigil magick techniques largely credited to Austin Osman Spare, I can put myself in light sex and weed trance and have what classic occultists would refer to as a conversation with my holy guardian. Its right there in

the literature and it was happening for quite a while before my rational mind would accept it. So yeah, in a way thats how my practice has evolved over the years. Ive gone from being in complete disbelief to being more and more comfortable with the constant high strangeness. I listen more now. Whatever the fuck Im communicating with, beings from the Sirius star system, grey aliens or what have you, they know things about the world I exist in that I decidedly dont. Theyve demonstrated this to me over and over and over and over again. Theyve told me they exist outside of time, and that theyre me somehow. Certainly a level of precognition goingon. I have a lot of psychic dreams.

Just saying things like that makes you sound like youre on the complete lunatic fringe to most of humanity, but its something I taught myself how to do by readingbooks and was recommended to me by other people, so you know, Im not sure how th

at can honestly be considered crazy by any conventional definition. There was aperiod when I first started doing this where these, what I call hypnagogic lightentities, were installing updates in my brain when I woke up in the middle of the night. Information moving faster than I could even come close to processing.This went on regularly in the hypnagogic state (between dreams and sleep) for roughly six months. Then one night these entities were proud of themselves, as iftheyd constructed something, a link. Telepathic communications software. I didnt honestly get it, but soon thereafter I started chatting with them. It took me another several years to truly believe that it was happening.

The other primary component that would go into a basic magickal practice would be casting spells, for lack of better terminology projecting sigils as one mightcall it. This involves trying to change the universe in accordance with your wil

l. Basically its the concept that you can influence outer reality with inner gestures. Again, completely crazy things to think about from a Western perspective,but if youre looking at it from the point that were all tied together inwardly andthat matter is comprised of consciousness, it makes perfect sense. Ive done a lot of this, and in all honesty, its very difficult to judge the results in any kind of scientific manner. Maybe in another ten years. I can say that your life becomes an increasing amount of impossible synchronicities and that you begin to expect them. You start to realize that this whole things basically a sort of dream.Again, incredibly hard to accept for someone with a more materialist upbringing. I mean, Im a guy from Ohio who grew up listening to rock music, drinking beer,


2/8

and playing basketball. Thatd be the other thing I didnt choose magick, it chose me. Long story that involves spirits awakening me from a sort of hypnotic tranceand telling me to pursue magick. Sounds odd, but again, nothing uncommon at all.Im not the first to report this type of summoning and I wont be the last.

Those two components however would be considered your low magick. Your high magick would be the pursuit of whatever it is youre passionate about in the world, ormaybe just figuring out what that is in the first place. The low magick shouldbe fueling the high magick.

As for things that are frustrating, Id go with the church slandering the occult to the point that everyone thinks its Satan worship. Theres a reason the term witchhunt exists. I look at a lot of metal bands and think you have noooooooooooo idea what youre talking about, at all. Summoning your holy guardian angel. Not superdark or evil, but rather Jesus-y in all actuality. Sorry, metal dudes.

Where do you think your interest in and attraction to what we might broadly termas the esoteric stems from? Have you always felt more or less out-of-step with theworld around you? Can you recall your earliest memory of having the thought thatthere is something more to our surroundings, power in the unseen?

Psychedelic drugs. Thats where it started. I have an abnormally strong reaction t

o things like LSD and mushrooms. I see what I jokingly refer to as transdimensional demon lords everywhere. My entire micro-verse is bombarded with what I can best describe as rapidly mutating transcendent art. I turn into living, breathing art which moves and changes faster than I can possibly process, and there alwaysseems to be an interaction or communication going on. Like Im staring into the face of a higher intelligence and its imparting information into me on a subconscious and sometimes direct level. The best way I could communicate what this is like visually to someone is by showing them this painting by Luke Brown called Baphomet.

I see shit like that. Everywhere. Ive also had the typical thousand eyed god within visions that you see in the works of people like Alex Grey, before I ever saw those paintings. I did mushrooms once when I was 18 and didnt have the ability to

perceive the world in the same way ever again. Theres just no accounting for thatkind of thing. If you saw it for two minutes youd be contemplating radical ontology as well. Very abnormal reaction, but then, you read about people doing DMT,which Ive never actually gotten ahold of, and its like, well, a lot of people seesimilar anomalies on that. In a way smoking pot for me is like taking acid. WhenI do that and meditate, or ganj-i-tate as I like to call it, I see incredibly intense visuals and hear music that I can typically control to a certain degree,in my head.

So yeah, psychedelic drugs randomly lead me into astral projection, as my mom had experimented with it in her youth and still had the tapes and books. I could talk about that for hours as its so fucking bizarre and flies completely under theradar. In a nutshell, you intentionally put yourself in a sleep paralysis state

and attempt to separate your consciousness from your body.

Ten years later, I had this hypnotic awakening experience where I became a sorcerer or magickian or mystic or shaman or whatever you want to call it. Something iapped and I realized I had these abilities but was afraid of them and ultimatelypretty much wanted them to go away so I could lead a normal life. This is wheremost of my misery was stemming from at that point. Its what people in the shamanic world would refer to as submission to a higher order of knowing. It was instantaneous and seemingly tied to another astral encounter in my youth where I was pulled from my body into what I can best refer to as a psychic sky temple by myria


3/8

d versions of me.

What can you tell us about your own personal musical evolution? What was the first music to truly capture your attention in your adolescence? How have your feelings about that music changed over the years? What were some of your earliest musical obsessions? How do you think your own sense of musical appreciation has progressed over the years?

I grew up in the 90s in suburban Youngstown, Ohio, pre-internet, but my mom livedin Seattle so I spent my summers here. There was a bit of an awareness of the underground because of that, but not much. I was fortunate to grow up during a time where artier shit was being pushed by the mainstream more, so that helped. AsI moved to cities like Columbus, Ohio, and later Seattle, in young adulthood Irealized how vast the musical sphere truly is. I listen to so much music these days its preposterous because I write music reviews and have people sending me shit, and Im completely addicted to buying music online. I actually spend a lot of money on downloading music despite the fact that people give me music for free, and I browse the library and grab random stuff Ive maybe kind of heard about thereas well. I have to constantly listen to new stuff. Its a compulsion.

The first psychedelic music I got into was like Monster Magnet, Sonic Youth, Kyuss, old Verve albums, Meat Beat Manifesto, and The Future Sound of London. The first time I ever ate acid (Id done mushrooms) my friend kept playing Dopes to Infinity on repeat. I mention that because despite listening to so much shit over t

he years I think you can fairly easily hear all of those influences in Black Science. In a way I think what I was trying to do was take everything that I thinksounds cool when Im high and cram it into one band. Stoner metal, shoegaze, noiserock, and weird electronic stuff.

Truthfully, we were always just trying to be a 2012 version of Pink Floyd. Definitely the band everyone in that project could agree on more than anything else.Take a simple song, insert jam here, repeat. What we didnt realize is that the more we jammed the more structured it got which isnt what we were planning but whatwe just found ourselves doing intuitively.

Oh, and I used to yell in an incredibly angry neo-spiritual rant metal band called The Nemesis Theory before I started Black Science. Completely different vibe

as I didnt write any of the music in the project. Worth a listen though and you can grab those albums for free at www.dmioccult.bandcamp.com. Its funny, the occupy movement came around and I was suddenly like, maybe we were onto something with that.

At what point did your interest in the occult and your interest in music intersect? How would you describe your initial attempts are bringing the two realms together? Do you feel that music holds a special place in the hearts of those seeking magical power? What is it about music that makes you feel powerful? What is it about magic that makes you feel powerful?

Well, oddly, before I started actually directly dabbling in magick, I did in fact attempt a rudimentary experiment which was partially inspired by an article I

read about William S. Burroughs and Brion Gysin. I made an album comprised entirely from samples of local metal bands and I honestly had no idea what the intentwas. They were bands The Nemesis Theory had played with or liked. I guess I wastrying to harness the psionic energy in the local metal scene or something. Oddidea, and one of the most brutal records Ive ever made, as its you know, remixesof metal bands. Anywho, I called it Sorcery and the first night I played the final mix, during the first song, the volume on my stereo jumped to full, scaring the living shit out of me. I went over and turned it down but like five minutes later it happened again. If you think I was startled the first time, this time Iwas perfectly terrified. It was so sudden and loud, and also, you know, shouldnt


4/8

have been happening.

It was during this period that I started to conceptualize what I was doing as amusician more precisely. Id been making sampler driven psychedelic music for years. I started when I was roughly 19. Its a project I eventually called Thanaton (after the Paul Laffoley painting), but I almost never play shows doing that stuffalthough Im thinking about maybe doing some in the near future. Its music I makeprimarily just to fuck with my own head. Eventually I realized that what Im doingis a summoning ritual of sorts. Its an offering to the aforementioned transdimensional demon lords Im trying to draw them into my world. Works when youre high, too, but mainly for when youre tripping.

I actually did an experiment with this. I gave myself a low dose of psilocybin intentionally so I could kind of gauge whether or not it was the drugs or the music that was spurring the visions. Sure enough, I wasnt getting any visionary stuff but when I put the music on, for the albums duration I had my prototypical psychic invasion thing happen. A swirling pit of infinity even opened up on my flooron cue. Then when the album was done, the visions stopped and I went right backto normal low dose perma-grin territory.

So yeah, thats the intention to what I do. Its a type of auditory spiritual technology designed to put the user into contact with whatever the fuck otherworldly forces Im in contact with. It works on me and thats the point. Does it work on others? I have no idea give it a whirl. Me suggesting this potentiality might be the

most important part of the whole equation. Research into psychedelic drugs hasbeen fairly impossible to get done although its starting to happen again. Obviously things like hyper-maximalism, delay pedals, drone, reverb, echo, etc., soundcool when youre high or tripping, but you cant get research done to prove something like that at this point. Its an obvious fact. Why do you think psych bands havebeen doing it for so long now? What Im trying to do is create a tear into another reality via your subjective perception of time. Psychedelics might be referredto as a time decelerator to a certain extent. Im creating a wormhole distortionby which they can get in.

As far as magick making me feel powerful, well, as much as I have psychic abilities that most other people dont at this point in human history, Im still honestlytrying to figure out what to do with them. Its an ongoing process. Moreover, it r

eally makes me feel like I know absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. Very humbling. Becoming acceptant and comfortable with the idea that you dont know dick and you never truly will as a human is the key. Ego destruction. Youvegot to embrace the mystery. Its all pretty hilarious if you look at it right.

How would you summarize the approach of Black Science over the years? Of which things that you accomplished as a band are you most proud? In which areas do youfeel the band still had fertile soil to till? What was the most surprisingly gratifying experience you had with Black Science?

Well, whats funny is that when the band first started out, I kind of thought itd be more about my songwriting, which you can hear on our first lo-fi album. We werent even honestly a band at that point, just some guys recording and we needed an

other member at least. We realized pretty quickly that the band should probablybe far more about my guitar playing rather than my songs.

I think we could have done more, but it had run its course. My brother Adam (guitar player/vocalist) is moving to Edmonton with his girlfriend and the drummer is having a kid. Kind of both at the same time. At some point, Id say Ill probablyhave a new band that sounds kind of like Black Science and plays some of that material. I might call it Black Science havent honestly decided.

As for a surprisingly gratifying experience, I wanted to play a show in Portland


5/8

last summer and I asked my friend Vivian from Redefine to help me book something. It ended up being one of the coolest shows Ive ever played, or have ever beento for that matter. It had performance art dancers, psych bands and a general occult theme, based on her knowledge of my interest in mysticism. Midday Veil, Swahili, Billions and Billions, and Golden Retriever played, so, you know, radtastic. So yeah, Emily (from Midday Veil) and Vivian are going to be doing two of those a year now apparently, and the fact that I unintentionally inspired that kindof blows my mind.

What are your thoughts on the final Black Science album, An Echo Through the Eyesof Forever? What did you hope to accomplish with this album, and how does the final, released piece of art differ (either positively or negatively) from your original intention? What can you tell us about the song Anywhere? What do you mean to communicate with the words, Same vision/Same faces/Same programs/Same motivations?

I think it turned out phenomenal, but more than anything, I just feel a sense ofprogress. Thats the fourth full-on studio album Ive made. Ive made tons of lower-fi electronic stuff, but thats fairly easy to record. So, the second Nemesis Theory record was better than the first in my mind, and the first Black Science studio album (Cosmodemonic & Beyond) was better than that by a long shot, and then Echo is better than that, so theres definitely a sense of progress there in my mind, which is important. Same deal with the art. Ive been getting better on the visual end as well. I did all three Black Science layouts and again, definitely a se

nse of progress.

The song Anywhere is actually the only song in that band that was initially written by another member, my brother Adam. He demoed the chord progression, concept and everything. Of course, I completely re-wrote the lyrics and added a bunch ofshit to the arrangement, but it was his baby. Its actually about the corporate takeover of America and how a lot of times, if you go anywhere outside the city, the towns look fucking identical due to exact same chain stores, strip malls andwhat not.

That was Adams idea, but of course I added a mind control aspect to the whole thing and joke that its about the Illuminati the desire for hollow materialistic pursuits and militarism implanted into the minds of America through their televisio

ns. Its pretty tongue in cheek as well. I had a hard time singing the line: I canttake all the psychic mind rape with a straight face.

Despite the eye-rolling that may occur, what can you tell us about your interestin comic books? Which comic book had had the most enduring influence on your life, what is that influence and why do you believe it has made a lasting impact on your life? What do you think is the most harmful preconceived notion that non-initiates carry regarding comic books?

Well, thats particularly pertinent because the most well know occultists of our time, and in my mind the two most interesting spiritual philosophers, are Grant Morrison and Alan Moore, who are both comic book writers by trade, not spiritualphilosophers. Definitely something odd about that, but also not surprising, beca

use in the comic universe things like alternate dimensions and psychic powers are a part of the whole cosmology. So, I imagine growing up geeking out on that stuff probably hypnotizes you slightly to be more acceptant of the possibilities.

An interview in Arthur magazine with Grant Morrison is what got my interest peaked and starting to read about the occult in the first place. Kind of embarrassing in retrospect but at the time I had no idea who he was. Two years later I wasa practicing occultist after the whole hypnotic awakening thing. Even more strange, it was right around that period where I realized that the library stocks tons of graphic novels, so I got waaaay into that again for a while, catching up on


6/8

a bunch of stuff Id missed. Id turned my back on comics as a young adult mainly because theyre expensive, but for free at the library, why not?

As far as biggest influences, thatd definitely be The Invisibles by the aforementioned Mr. Morrison. That work was intended as what he referred to as a hyper-sigil designed to influence and raise the consciousness of the reader and its fictional but largely based on his experiences with the occult. Kind of what I was talking about earlier with the music, similar concept, art as spiritual technology.I have a freakishly good memory, so I rarely re-read things, but Ive read that twice and will probably read again, because theres so much going on. So many layers.

As a matter of fact, Black Science is named after a storyline in that, so we were trying to directly capitalize on the energy of the sigil that Grant ignited (well, truthfully, Adam just liked that name better than the others Id written downbut we ran with it). Id say about a month after I decided Id name the final trackon the album Our Sentence is Up which is the final declaration in The Invisibles we learned my brother was moving and the drummer, Gael, was having a kid. So isthe nature of magick.

Even more eerie is that it plays on the whole 2012 thing, which Ill talk about here because I was told to mention it while in a trance state last night, which ishilarious because I dont honestly understand what Im talking about here much at all. Basically, what my cosmic over-soul wants me to think is that were about to e

nter a new era in human history, which will be the third world Aeon of Horus, the conquering child, as Crowley called it, but thats just one way of framing things. So, if youre familiar with all the ancient architecture anomalies, it seems apparent that there was another civilization which predated ours, based on feminine energy and shamanism. And now theres this Aeon based on materialism and misogyny, which is now nearing its end. 2012 specifically has never been mentioned, soI have no idea how long this process will take, but were destined to evolve intoa hybrid of the two. Ive been told flat out that consumerism is going to fail completely, which were already seeing.

With that being said, I think the biggest misconception a lot of people have involving comics would be that because a lot are about super heroes, theyre not serious art and just for kids. What theyre missing is that since a lot of the super h

ero titles pay, they attract some incredibly talented writers. Oh, Christ, andhave long been a bastion for psychedelic concepts, not to mention on the forefront of censorship battles back in the day.

Despite the eye-rolling that may occur, what can you tell us about your interestin psychedelic substances substances like drugs? Which psychedelic substance hadhad the most enduring influence on your life, what is that influence and why doyou believe it has made a lasting impact on your life? What do you think is themost harmful preconceived notion that non-initiates carry regarding psychedelicsubstances?

I certainly touched on that earlier, but I think its of incredible import. My favorite psychedelic drug is weed. What, say, Robert Anton Wilson was trying to tel

l us in books like Cosmic Trigger and Sex, Drugs and Magick is that at the heartof all these occult conspiracies, what almost never comes up and is kind of theelephant in the room is the idea that through weed-induced sex magick you can communicate with forms of intelligence hitherto unknown. Im honestly just continuing his work, which he in fact abandoned because he couldnt deal with it. So yeah,I think if marijuana is legalized, which seems imminent, theres a lot greater transformative potentiality there than anyone Ive ever talked to is recognizing. Itpossesses incredible potential in helping to re-program your brain, which weve barely explored at this point.


7/8

People largely gloss over the fact that Timothy Leary was obsessed with Crowleyand even explored this very avenue of channeling via his Starseed transmissions.Most people of this era are so wedded to the potentiality and infallibility ofscience, they fully ignore the fact thats its just as corrupt as the government, business, or anything else in our culture. Take psychiatry. Its fairly obvious that psychedelic drugs have the most potential of anything to actually help people,but that research has been basically impossible. And so we get mind-control, numbing drugs like selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors which are total bullshit for people who arent severely depressed. Basically, take pills rather than addressing your psychological issues. Run away from your problems rather than confronting them. Heinous.

I have a degree in psychology and I realized pretty quickly that you cant study this stuff inside mainstream academic institutions. Its fucking impossible, whichis why I went rogue. Ask anyone thats tried to study even, say, psi-phenomenon in general. If you get results, no one will even look at them or care, and they will slander the fuck out of you for having the gall to even bother based on philosophical underpinnings alone. The problem is the powers that be have no idea how to make money off of it. It challenges everything. Look at the studies into remote viewing. As far as I can tell, theyve proven the reality of psychic phenomenon, but seemingly no one cares at all. The idea that Id ever get a study funded based on sigil magick is a complete joke. No fucking way. If I wanted to study, say, the efficacy of prayer and pursued that, checks would be falling into my lap. Einstein said, imagination is more important that knowledge, and more than anyth

ing, psychedelic drugs have the ability to expand our imaginations and save us from the materialist dead-end weve created. I like a lot of the materialist dead-end stuff, though. Weve made some great records.

Jeffrey J. Kripal writes the following:

Usually, the human imagination is a producer of fantasies, a dreamer, a daydreamer. But sometimes, sometimes, it is infused or empowered by weird metaphysical energies. In these moments of influx, the human imagination is no longer a projectorbut a kind of translator or mediator of Mind, which communicates, which probably cn only communicate, to the social ego through symbol and myth. Here the fantasyis also the fact. The trick is the truth.

Your thoughts?

If someone were to listen to me talk about the occult and say, Thats crazy!, Id sayyes. If they said, Isnt that just your imagination?, Id say: exactly. Weve never ved the mysteries presented to us by things like schizophrenia, and Id be the first to admit that Im kind of touching on that with what I do. I think as a mysticIm kind of like a half sane\half schizo hybrid.

Shamanism and westernized materialism are almost like completely opposite philosophies. One tells you inner experiences are the only things that have real meaning, the other perspective tells you that they are completely meaningless. Developing a balance between the two is the next step for us a species. Dreams, visions, and such are just as much a part of my life as anything thats happened in ordi

nary waking reality. I remember them just as well, and they are just as much aninfluence on my behavior. A westerner would read this and think: this guy is totally batshit, and a shaman would look at it and think: this guy is incredibly nave. A materialist tells you psychedelic visions are drugs influencing chemical reactions in your brain making you hallucinate, a shaman tells you youre talking togods. From a more shamanic perspective: thought does not arise from matter, matter is comprised from thought. Thats why magick works. Its all a dream and you cantweak the parameters if youre clever enough.

Whats next for John Gillanders?


8/8

I have a new project Im working on called Chapel Supremesus with Dean Swanson whosin a great band called Hidden Number and who recorded the two Black Science records. Its incredibly anti-structural stuff and I think were going to intentionallyskewer the dark occult mythos thats so trendy these days. Also, Im going to startworking on more video, which is new for me. Ive been doing graphic design for awhile so it seems like a natural progression. Also, I might be starting anotherband with the drummer from The Nemesis Theory. Its a ways off.

Other than that, I have a book about my experiences with the occult, The Galactic Dialogue, which should be out in fall. Its my second and the first one Im actually quite proud of, mainly because its straight up non-fiction which is somethingI was running from. If you think this interview was intriguing, youll freaking love it. Its a non-fiction book which is weirder than any piece of fiction youll ever read and all entirely true. Well, as much as memory can be considered true. Also, when that comes out I want to do some spoken word, which is something Ive wanted to do forever but have never been able to find the proper venue for. Where do you give occult lectures exactly outside of the podcast world? I have no ideabut Im determined to figure it out. Stay tuned true believers.

Documents

Black Science