Back Issue #11

CONANTHE BARBARIAN

T H E U L T I M A T E C O M I C S E X P E R I E N C E !

CONAN TM & © 2005 CONAN PROPERTIES INTERNATIONAL LLC. KING ARTHUR, MR. MIRACLE,AND SUPERMAN TM & © 2005 DC COMICS. GROO TM & © 2005 SERGIO ARAGONÉS. SPIDER-MAN TM & © 2005 MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

GR

EAT

EST

STORIES NEVERTOLD

•N

ES

TO

RR

EDONDO’sKINGARTHUR

CONANTHE BARBARIAN

ART

HUR

SUYD

AM

Inte

rviewr

Rare

art

by

Busce

ma

uWin

dsor-S

mit

hx

Adams>

Kane

ART

HUR

SUYD

AM

Inte

rviewr

Rare

art

by

Busce

ma

uWin

dsor-S

mit

hx

Adams>

Kane

Gods

and

Warrio

rs!

Gods

and

Warrio

rs!

A u g u s t 2 0 0 5

No.11$5.95

GR

EAT

EST

STORIES NEVERTOLD

•N

ES

TO

RR

EDONDO’sKINGARTHUR

PR

O2

P

RO• ARAGONÉS

&EV

AN

IER

’SG

RO

O

PR

O2

P

RO• ARAGONÉS

&EV

AN

IER

’SG

RO

O

ROUGH STUFF • godsan

dw

arriorspencilart

ROUGH STUFF • godsan

dw

arriorspencilart

SU

PE

RM

AN

VS. SPIDER-MAN

•TH

ES

EC

RET

ARTISTREVEALED!

SU

PE

RM

AN

VS. SPIDER-MAN

•TH

ES

EC

RET

ARTISTREVEALED!

An in-depth look at Marvel’sTM

Volume 1, Number 11August 2005

Celebrating the BestComics of the '70s, '80s,and Today!

EDITORMichael Eury

PUBLISHERJohn Morrow

DESIGNERRobert Clark

ART ASSISTANTRich J. Fowlks

PROOFREADERSJohn Morrow and Eric Nolen-Weathington

COVER ARTISTSJohn Buscema and Joe Jusko

SPECIAL THANKSNeal AdamsSergio AragonésManual AuadTerry AustinDaniel BestJerry BoydMike BurkeyScott BurnleyKurt BusiekJay CaldwellGerry ConwayJon B. CookeDon CornScott DuttonJohn EuryMark EvanierBrian FriedmanDick GiordanoGrand Comic-Book DatabaseDavid HamiltonHeritage ComicsJeff JatrasDan JohnsonTerry JonesJoe JuskoDave KarlenNick KatridisMark. B. KirschnerMichel MaillotDon MangusBob McLeodSteve MorgerBrian K. MorrisRichard PiniWendy PiniJohn Romita, Sr.Josef RubinsteinRose Rummel-EuryTom StewartArthur Suydam

The Ultimate Comics Experience!

Tom TaggartJoel ThingvallRoy ThomasLen WeinRenee

WitterstaetterMarv Wolfman

G o d s a n d W a r r i o r s I s s u e • B A C K I S S U E • 1

Barbarians, beasts,and legendary heroes

abound in our

GODS ANDWARRIORS

issu e !

PRO2PRO: SERGIO ARAGONÉS AND MARK EVANIER ON GROO .............................................2The MADmen chat about comics’ dimmest barbarian, with rare art by Aragonés

PRO2PRO BONUS: THE WIZ...................................................................................................................................12DC’s unpublished adaptation of the 1978 Michael Jackson movie, with Dan Spiegle art

ROUGH STUFF: GODS AND WARRIORS PENCIL ART GALLERY............................................14Glorious graphite by Boring, J. Buscema, García-López, Heck, Kirby, Moebius, Pérez, Rude,M. Severin, Willingham, Wilshire, and Windsor-Smith

OFF MY CHEST: SUPERMAN VS. SPIDER-MAN .............................................................................................26Journalist Daniel Best uncovers the original crossover’s secret artist, interviewing a hostof comics luminaries

GREATEST STORIES NEVER TOLD: KING ARTHUR ............................................................................33Unpublished for three decades, Nestor Redondo’s awe-inspiring artwork on the highlyanticipated epic that never saw print

FLASHBACK: BRIAN BOLLAND’S 1980s BRITISH ANNUALS.....................................................42A look at rarely seen Bolland covers to U.K. publications

BEYOND CAPES: CONAN THE LONG-RUNNING................................................................................45Behind the scenes of Marvel’s Conan the Barbarian, with art and/or commentary byBarry Windsor-Smith, Roy Thomas, John Buscema, Gil Kane, Joe Jusko, Neal Adams,and Kurt Busiek

FANTASY ART GALLERY ..............................................................................................................................................66Spellbinding illos by Bill Sienkiewicz, Joe Kubert, Jeff Jones, Wendy Pini, Mike Ploog andAlex Niño, and other talents

INTERVIEW: ARTHUR SUYDAM ...........................................................................................................................74Heavy Metal, Epic Illustrated, Cholly and Flytrap, and Mudwogs, then and now, withthe award-winning artist

BACK TALK ..............................................................................................................................................................................86Reader feedback on issue #9

BACK ISSUE™ is published bimonthly by TwoMorrows Publishing, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614. Michael Eury, Editor.John Morrow, Publisher. Editorial Office: BACK ISSUE, c/o Michael Eury, Editor, 5060A Foothills Dr., Lake Oswego, OR 97034. Email:[email protected]. Six-issue subscriptions: $30 Standard US, $48 First Class US, $60 Canada, $66 Surface International, $90Airmail International. Please send subscription orders and funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial office.Conan the Barbarian TM & © 2005 Conan Properties International, LLC. Superman and Mister Miracle TM & © 2005 DC Comics. KingArthur and the Knights of the Round Table © 1975 DC Comics. Groo the Wanderer TM & © 2005 Sergio Aragonés. Spider-Man TM &© 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creatorsunless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © 2005 Michael Eury and TwoMorrows Publishing. BACK ISSUE is a TM of TwoMorrowsPublishing. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Groo 2KSergio Aragonés’

Groo and Ruferto in

a 2000 commission

shared with us

by Brian Friedman.

Groo © 2005 Sergio Aragonés.

Creator-OwnedRoots

(Inset, far right) Groo

was first seen in

Steve Gerber’s

Destroyer Duck #1.

© 2005 Steve Gerber.

DAN JOHNSON: Sergio, tell us about Groo’s history. As Iunderstand it, the character is close to 30 years old, correct?SERGIO ARAGONÉS: We first published Groo in 1983,but the character was in existence long before then. Icreated the character in the early 1970s, but [for a longtime], Groo was just a character on paper. I didn’t wantto publish Groo unless I could retain the rights to him.MARK EVANIER: Now I get to my purpose in life: correct-ing Sergio. [Groo] was first published in 1981.ARAGONÉS: Yes, in Destroyer Duck #1 [from Eclipse Comics].JOHNSON: As I understand it, Mark, you became aware

of Groo when you saw some of the original sketches, right?EVANIER: I saw those a couple of houses ago. Sergio hadthis beautiful house up in the hills, and we were up thereone day and he said, “Let me show you something.” Hepulled out these wonderful drawings, many of which wereon the stationary of the Laugh-In television show [thesecond version, in 1977], which had been filmed recently,and they were all these barbarian characters and this onein particular named Groo. I asked Sergio, “Why Groo?”He said, “I believe that name means nothing anywherein any language.”

2 • B A C K I S S U E • G o d s a n d W a r r i o r s I s s u e

much ado aboutgrooin

terv

iew

byD

anJo

hnso

nco

nduc

ted

Janu

ary

26,2

005

JOHNSON: What did you think when you first saw thischaracter?EVANIER: I thought it was a neat idea. I’m always a hugefan of anything Sergio did.ARAGONÉS: The problem was, Dan, we couldn’t do any-thing with it. The publishing houses were against sharingthe copyrights [with the creators].EVANIER: At that point, you had a lot of double talkabout ownership and copyrights. In this period of comics,companies were starting to realize that they couldn’t getnew characters with the way they were doing business,but nobody had the guts to actually change things.When Sergio had talked to publishers about doing Groo,they said, “Oh, yes, you can keep the rights, but of coursewe’ll have to own everything.” There was actually one personwho told Sergio that it was illegal for an individual toown a copyright, so it would have to be in the name ofthe corporation.ARAGONÉS: Another told me it would be over his deadbody when the day came that I could own the copyrights.EVANIER: Sergio was one of the few people that wasactively working in comics who finally said, “No, I don’tbelieve that you’re being honest with me. I will not giveyou my work on those terms.” He not only wouldn’tgive people Groo, he stopped working altogether onmainstream comics.JOHNSON: That is incredible. Sergio, Iremember the one-pagers you used todo for DC’s horror comics. Those werealways terrific. So Groo is why you stoppeddoing those?ARAGONÉS: Yes, that was the main reason.DC didn’t want me to own the rights to mywork, so I stopped working for them. I waswriting stories for House of Secrets and Houseof Mystery, and one-pagers for the war books.[I was doing] all kinds of stuff, but I stopped.EVANIER: He even stopped right in the mid-dle of a project we were doing together.

We were doing for DC an adaptation of The Wiz, thefilm that starred Diana Ross and Michael Jackson [see the“Pro2Pro Bonus” following this interview]. I was writing it,and I was on page 32, I think, and suddenly Sergio hada falling out with [the company] over the concept ofcreators’ rights. Actually, I think when Sergio left, I wasalmost finished with the project. It went to anotherartist, but DC never printed it. I didn’t work for DC fora while after that.JOHNSON: Sergio, I had always thought that you gotout of comics because of your work with MAD and yourtelevision work. I didn’t know this stemmed from Groo.EVANIER: A normal person would have not had time towork in television and MAD, but you’re talking to SergioAragonés. He’s probably done several pages while we’vehad this conversation already. And he’s done my carpeting.He’s amazing.JOHNSON: Tell us how the character finally did see print.As you said, the first Groo appearance was in Steve Gerber’sDestroyer Duck.EVANIER: Well, Steve Gerber waslocked in a legal battle with MarvelComics over Howard the Duck andeverybody was rallying to Steve’ssupport, first of all because of theposition [on creator’s rights] andalso they didn’t believe that some-one should lose a lawsuit becausethey have less money than the peo-ple they are up against. At thatmoment, that was the particularstrategy of Marvel’s lawyers, forwhich they were sanctioned in courtand admonished because they weretrying to drive up Steve’s legal billswith meaningless procedure in thehopes he would have to drop thecase. The judge fined them fordoing this, but Steve still couldn’tcover his legal fees. So Dean

Mullaney [of EclipseComics], who wastrying to get his firstcomics going, suggested doing a benefitcomic. I somehow volunteered to assembleit and Jack Kirby offered to draw the leadstory. We needed a back-up series, andthe first person I went to was Sergio. I toldhim about the project, and before I washalfway finished telling him about it, hewent to his drawer of series that had notbeen published and told me, “Take any-thing you want. If it’s not right, I’ll drawsomething special.” I said, “This is the per-

G o d s a n d W a r r i o r s I s s u e • B A C K I S S U E • 3

Wheel of MisfortuneAn Aragonés splash

from House of Mystery

#175 (1968). Courtesy

of Mike Burkey.

© 2005 DC Comics.

Groo’s Girl TroubleThe cover art to

DC Comics Resents #16

(1989), a Wonder

Woman/Groo team-up.

No, we made that up—

it’s actually a convention

sketch commissioned

from Sergio Aragonés by

Joel Thingvall (check out

Joel’s Wonder Woman

art gallery at www.

wonderthing.com).

Groo © 2005 Sergio Aragonés.Wonder Woman © 2005 DC Comics.

1 2 • B A C K I S S U E • G o d s a n d W a r r i o r s I s s u e

Ease on Downthe Road to Limbo

A page from

DC Comics’ un-

published The Wiz

(1978), written by

Mark Evanier and

illustrated by

Dan Spiegle.

The Wiz © 1978 Motownand Universal Pictures.

Art © 1978 DC Comics.

sidebarsidebar

sidebarsidebar

sidebarsidebar

Sergio Aragonés’ stand for creator’srights over Groo led him to walk away from main-

stream comics in the mid-1970s. A project that was

affected by his departure was a comics adaptation of

The Wiz—the “reimagining” of The Wizard of Oz with

an all-black cast, including Diana Ross and Michael

Jackson—which he was slated to do with Mark Evanier

for DC Comics. Evanier wrote the adaptation’s script

and replacement artist Dan Spiegle penciled the entire

book and inked around 22 pages before the project

was cancelled.

Had The Wiz been released, it would have been pub-

lished in a magazine format with photos and related

articles. DC hoped that The Wiz would reach a broader

audience beyond the one that was buying super-hero

comics at the time. There was even some talk of selling

the magazine as a souvenir book in the lobby of the

theaters that showed the movie.

Originally The Wiz adaptation was going to be written

by Len Wein, drawn by Sergio Aragonés, and edited by

Joe Orlando. When Wein left the project because of other

writing commitments, Aragonés suggested that DC hire

Mark Evanier to write it. When Aragonés vacated the

project, the only thing that kept Evanier interested was

Orlando’s suggestion to bring Spiegle on board. Spiegle,

who had worked with Evanier previously on Scooby-Doo,

was considered an excellent replacement because of

the film and television adaptations he had done for Dell

and Gold Key.

Orlando got a copy of the screenplay before Evanier

did, and he was the one who noted what parts of the

screenplay should be omitted for the adaptation and

what parts should be played up. “Joe and I had this

one-hour long phone conversation where he read me

his notes and I wrote them down, and they were my

blueprints,” says Evanier. “The result was one of those

comics where I felt that I didn’t have any of myself

invested in it. If anything, it was Joe’s choice of how

to treat the material.”

The plug was pulled on The Wiz when DC got wind

that the film was not going to be the blockbuster the

studio was hoping it would be. For Evanier, The Wiz

being canned wasn’t too big of a disappointment. Even

though the project was aborted, some good did come

out of it. “One of the motives I had for doing the book

was, Dan wanted to work for DC, and I thought he should

work for DC,” says Evanier. “The fact that Orlando

wanted him on this project was a sign that I wanted

to encourage. Orlando called me first and asked me

what I thought the problems would be if we called [The

Wiz] off. I told him, ‘I can’t speak for Dan, but if I were

you, I would offer him a lot of other work in

exchange for stopping in the middle of the project after

he had cleared his schedule to do this book.’ DC gave

Dan another comic to draw the next day, and he

worked pretty steadily for DC for years after.”

G o d s a n d W a r r i o r s I s s u e • B A C K I S S U E • 1 3

by Dan Johnson

Even though DC decided not to publish its

adaptation of The Wiz, one of the movie’s stars,

Michael Jackson, eventually danced his way into

comic books. Captain Eo, a 17-minute 3-D movie

starring the King of Pop, was produced in 1987 by George

Lucas and Francis Ford Coppola for exclusive showings in

Disney theme parks. Eclipse Comics published a 3-D adap-

tation of the film, illustrated by Thomas Yeates and released

in two formats: as a traditional comic book and in an

original art-sized souvenir edition sold exclusively at Disney

gift shops.

©19

87W

altD

isney

Cor

p.

Editor’s Note: In researching his forthcoming biography of artist team supreme Ross Andruand Mike Esposito, journalist and teacher Daniel Best discovered a mystery that, quitefrankly, I initially didn’t realize was a mystery—Andru was not the only penciler on the leg-endary first crossover between the premier super-heroes of DC and Marvel Comics. In animpressive display of journalism, Best traipses through a web of creators to reveal the fullstory of this historic comic-book event, and he’d like to get that . . . off his chest. —M.E.

Gods and WarriorsNearly 30 years

after its publication,

Superman vs. the

Amazing Spider-Man

(1976) remains the

super-hero crossover

of all time.

Superman © 2005 DC Comics.Spider-Man © 2005 Marvel

Characters, Inc.


Superman vs. Spider-ManThe Secret Artist Revealed

gues

ted

itor

ial

byda

niel

best


In early 2004, Mike Esposito and I were talkingabout the Andru and Esposito book that I was in theprocess of preparing. We’d spent a considerable amountof time talking about various aspects of the pair’scareer and the artists that Mike had worked with overthe years. As is the norm whenever Mike and myselfspeak, a lot of the conversation was taken up by subjectsother than comic books, and it was during one of thoseconversations that Mike made an offhand commentabout the Superman vs. The Amazing Spider-Man treasuryedition that saw the light in of day in 1976. Mike’scomments were about how his art partner, Ross Andru,had made the book into something more than a comicbook, and into an experience that was almost cine-matic. To me that was an opening to discuss the bookand I started by asking if Mike had ever been consideredas an inker for the project, considering his historywith both Ross and Marvel and DC (at the time veryfew artists had worked on both Superman and Spider-Man—Ross Andru and Mike Esposito were amongstthem). Little did I know that I was about to open a canof worms that’d take nearly a year to close.

Mike instantly came back with the following: “I wassupposed to ink the first Superman/Spider-Mancrossover. However, I got into a big argument with MarvWolfman, who was the editor at Marvel at the time. Theykept changing editors; Roy Thomas was the editor atone stage, then Marv, then Len Wein. I got a call fromSol Harrison at DC and he said, ‘Mike, we want to teamyou and Ross up together. We’re going to do a cross-over with Spider-Man and Superman and since youguys were known as Andru and Esposito up here wefigure it’d be perfect for you guys to do it.’ And it wasall set to go, and then Marv Wolfman, and I’m not doingthis verbatim, I’m paraphrasing what happened, hecalled them up and said, ‘You can’t have both guys.’

“It was like they were trading ball players fromone team to another. He said, ‘You can have Ross but youcan’t have Mike, or you can have Mike but you can’t

have Ross. You can’t have both of them.’ So Sol Harrisoncalled me up and he was very apologetic because hereally enjoyed the idea of having the two guys fromyears ago coming together on the project. He said, ‘Itlooks like you’re not going to do it. I’m sorry, Mike.It looks like Dick Giordano is going to be put on it.’”

So far, so good? Well, no. For the record, and beforewe go any further, Mikeonly has good words to sayabout Dick: “DickGiordano did a good job.It’s a very nice book.”

However, this is onlythe start of the legend/factpart of the story. I thencontacted Marv Wolfmanand included a copy ofMike’s comments for clari-fication as the journalistinside of me knows thatin order to get all thefacts, you have to at leastask anyone and everyonethat’s being mentionedin your story. If they tellyou to take a hike, well atleast you’ve asked, so theycan’t then come back atyou. So I emailed Marv.I’ve never met Marv, but I have emailed him morethan once and he’s always been a good guy to me.He’s been friendly, courteous, and more than help-ful, which is why I was taken aback slightly whenthis reply came in, only a few hours after my emailleft. Marv’s reply read as follows: “Mike’s quotefrom Sol is wrong. I was on the Marvel black-and-white books at the time, not the color comics. I hadabsolutely nothing to do with deciding who was onthe Superman/Spider-Man book.

When the legend becomesfact, print the legend.

The above quote was all well and good for John Ford; however, at

times the legend becomes the truth and the discovery of the actual facts becomes

all the more harder. After all, memory is a tenuous thing at best.

Page 4 of

Superman

vs. the Amazing

Spider-Man.

Superman © 2005 DC Comics.Spider-Man © 2005 MarvelCharacters, Inc.

“Len Wein was the editor, as he willtell you because I had to hold him backwhen he nearly strangled the guy fromCadence Corp. who told us about theteam-up and that Len, as the Marveleditor, would not have any say in thematter. I may have later inherited theproject when Len left Marvel, but I don’tremember. At any rate, I know the teamhad been selected without us, and thatthe idea, as little as I remember of it now,was that there would be a Marvel pen-ciler and a DC inker on it so I doubt thatMike would have been considered, despitehis years with Ross, because they want-ed people from both companies workingon each step of it. Gerry Conway was the

writer because he had written both Superman andSpider-Man, the only one to do it at that point.”

There was more, but I’ve decided not to let that goto air, so to speak. Marv might have been having a badday, or perhaps he felt that I (or Mike) was accusing himof something that he’d clearly not done. As it was Iemailed an instant apology to Marv and as he’d com-mented that he wished people would get their factsright, I assured him that I was indeed working hardto get the facts down pat, and that I’d not be letting

anything go to print without everyone involvedgiving their side of the story. Marv replied thatI perhaps should contact Len Wein and ask forhis side of things. I thanked Marv, apologizedagain, and contacted Len and included every-thing I’d gathered thus far. Len had a read ofit and came back with the following: “I’m prettymuch with Marv on this one. I was the Marveleditor-in-chief at the time, not Marv, who hadnothing at all to do with the Superman/Spider-Man book other than saving then MarvelPublisher Al Landau’s life when I threw myselfat him, determined to rip out his throat, afterLandau told me when I complained aboutlosing Ross Andru’s penciling services off theAmazing Spider-Man title for a couple of months,that, despite my position as Marvel E-i-C and

also being the current writer on Amazing Spider-Man,what went on in the S/S-M team-up book was, quote,‘None of your f*cking business!’

“Nobody in Marvel editorial had anything what-soever to do with determining who worked on theSuperman/Spider-Man book and, to the very best ofmy memory, Mike Esposito’s name never came up.And, frankly, I doubt it would have. As mentioned, theidea was to make this one-shot a true cross-company

book. That meant splitting the creative services betweenthe two companies. Thus, the writing came from DC(Gerry Conway), the penciling from Marvel (RossAndru), the inking from DC (Dick Giordano), thecoloring from Marvel (Glynis Oliver), and the letteringfrom DC (Gaspar Saladino). Even the cover was laidout by DC’s then-publisher, artist Carmine Infantino,penciled by Ross, and inked by Dick, and coloredby Glynis.

“Despite what whatever line of bull Sol Harrisonmight have fed Mike (Sol had his own agenda at thetime, having been passed over for the publisher posi-tion), I don’t believe for an instant it ever happened.The best I could imagine was Ross (always a wonderfulman) suggesting his buddy Mike as inker and beingoverruled for the reasons mentioned above.

“Also, it should be noted that Mike inked the twoissues of Amazing Spider-Man that Ross missed whilepenciling the crossover. The fill-in penciler for thoseissues was Sal Buscema.” 1

I thanked Len and promised that he could have alook at the final draft of this article in case there mightbe some comments he’d rather not allow see thelight of day.

TH-TH-THAT’S SOL, FOLKS!So, there it was. My theory is that Mike had beenasked to ink the book by Sol Harrison, and had thenbeen told, again by Sol, that the editors at Marvel hadrefused to give permission. My best guess is thateveryone is right—the events that Mike, Marv, and Lenrecounted all happened, however it more than likelyhappened like this: Ross Andru is asked to pencil thecrossover and elects Mike as his inker of choice. Thiswouldn’t have come as a surprise as Mike and Ross wentback to when they were kids, they’d published together,they’d drawn and written together, they even gotmarried at roughly the same time. Ross and Mike didpretty much everything together, and Mike’s inks didcomplement Ross pencils, and Ross must have felt thaton a project of such magnitude he might need asympathetic inker, and, knowing how lucrative aproject this would be, wanted to include Mike. SoRoss asks Sol Harrison who then calls Mike and tellshim how everyone at DC wants to reunite the Andru/Esposito art team for this book. Now, as Len recounts,Sol had more than a few hidden agendas at that stage,perhaps Sol did indeed ask the editors at Marvel onlyto be told no. More likely he didn’t, and was told whothe creative team would be: Gerry Conway (at that stagethe only man to have written both Superman andSpider-Man for any length of time), Ross Andru (theonly man to have drawn both characters at that stage),


The Amazing

Spider-Man #160

(Sept. 1976), from

the Wein/Andru/

Esposito era of the

book; cover by

John Romita.

© 2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.

Stan Lee (top) and

Carmine Infantino

circa 1976, from

the inside front cover

to Superman vs. the

Amazing Spider-Man.

Photos © 1976 MarvelComics Group and DC Comics.


Redondo,the Art King

Magical page 3

of Nestor Redondo’s

unpublished master-

piece. All King Arthur

original art pages in

this article are courtesy

of Manuel Auad and

Dave Karlen.

© 1975 DC Comics.

KINGARTHURand the Knights of the Round Table:Passed Into Legend

Chances are that if Arthur Pendragon truly existed, he probably didn’t look like

Richard Burton, Richard Harris, or even Graham Chapman. Maybe the tales of

he and his knights are an amalgam of folk tales embellished through centuries of

retelling, but we may have no way of ever knowing. However, like Beowulf, The Iliad,

and The Odyssey, the tales that remain comprise a classic story of sword and sorcery to

say nothing of romance, intrigue, and betrayal.

by Brian K. Morris

(with fact-checking by Gerry

Conway and Manuel Auad)


Gerry Conway broke into comics writing for the

DC Comics horror books when he was only 15 and

soon moved over to Marvel. By the time he left in

1975, he had written many of Marvel’s top titles

such as Fantastic Four, Amazing Spider-Man, Thor,

Daredevil, and Tomb of Dracula while still in his

early twenties. Conway jumped to DC to write and

edit existing titles such as Kamandi and Tarzan,

revive books like Blackhawk and All-Star Comics, as

well as create new titles such as Freedom Fighters,

Steel, Man-Bat, The Secret Society of Super-Villains,

and many more.

For many years, DC experimented with different

formats for their comics including reprint volumes

of 80 and 100 pages as well as the “tabloid” size of

magazine.1 These oversized (10" by 13 3⁄4") comics

began as showcases for reprints from DC’s library and

eventually moved into presenting original material,

such as the first DC/Marvel crossovers: an adaptation

of MGM’s Wonderful Wizard of Oz by Roy Thomas,

John Buscema, and Tony DeZuniga and Superman

vs. the Amazing Spider-Man (written by Conway).

As Conway recalls, DC actively sought new projects

to fill these oversized books. “I’m not sure if it was

[editor] Joe Orlando who suggested it to me or whether

I suggested it to him, but we talked of doing an

adaptation of Le Morte d’Arthur.” Originally published

Redondo’s water-

colored front

and back covers

to the Arthurian

adaptation (we

lament that our

black-and-white

format doesn’t

allow their color

publication).

© 1975 DC Comics.

Redondo ably

succeeded Bernie

Wrightson as the artist

on Swamp Thing, as

seen in this panel from

page 18 of issue #13.

Swamp Thing © 2005 DC Comics.

Editor’s note: Artwork for this feature was contributed by

Michael Arnold, Terry Austin, John Eury, David Hamilton,

Heritage Comics, Joe Jusko, Michel Maillot, Bob McLeod, and

Jim Warden, to whom BACK ISSUE extends its gratitude and

a frothy pint of mead.

“Why we didn’t just createan entirely new character,I don’t know. . .”In the late ’60s, DC Comics, as a whole, must have sat

down and sighed. After releasing a spate of innovative

titles (almost all of which had been cancelled within two

years) and luring an influx of new talent (Neal Adams,

Denny O’Neil, Dick Giordano), and even the go-go checks (!),

nothing had worked. Like the nerd with the new haircut,

DC had somehow failed to be cool, and didn’t seem to

understand why. It was now 1969, and Marvel Comics, in

what would have been unthinkable only ten years before,

was about to leave DC in its dust, ready to take over the

top spot from DC. Marvel had the drive, the talent, and

some of the hippest characters in comics (I mean, really,

Superman seemed like someone’s dad trying to be cool

at your birthday party), and they had the college crowd

with them. That new base could be a demanding bunch

of cusses. Roy Thomas, Marvel writer and fan turned pro

who wrote Conan, man and boy, for over 30 years should

know. Roy?

“About that time, 1969 I think, we were getting letters

asking us to do a Conan comic. Well, I’d read a couple

of the books, with the Frazetta covers, I knew who he was.”


by Tom “The Comics

Savant” Stewart

Blacklight BarbarianRemember those garishly groovy blacklight

posters of the 1970s? Here’s a Conan poster,

amazingly illustrated by Barry (Windsor-) Smith.

© 2005 Conan Properties.

Also Gil Kane, one of Marvel’s (and DC’s) most popular

artists, was a huge Conan fan, and owned all the Gnome

Press books from the 1950s’ Conan revival (which Roy

later bought, and still owns, BTW), and he was interested

in Conan of Cimmeria, so why not?

Stan Lee, editor-in-chief, agreed. Roy wrote a memo

to Marvel’s publisher and owner, Martin Goodman: “It was

the only thing I did that he ever mentioned to me in the

two, three times I ran into him! ‘That was some memo!’”

Goodman had approved. They had a budget! Line ’em

up! So Roy started right away to secure the rights to . . .

Lin Carter’s Thongor. Thongor? Roy:

“I figured that Conan, being as popular as he was,

would be out of our price league. I’d read Thongor and

Stan liked the name. . .”

Thongor really is a Stan Lee kind of name. It sounds

like a villain from an early Marvel monster mag. Roy had

gotten the okay from Goodman to go ahead all right, but

to do it on the cheap (yep, sounds like Goodman). Roy had

$150 to offer for the rights to the mighty Thongor (really,

no disrespect to Lin Carter, but Thongor was just not one

for the ages), so he made the call to Carter’s agent, who

gave him an “I’ll get back to you.” Carter promised his agent

would get back to him. Still, no call. Roy again:

“Well, it wasn’t much money, even then it wasn’t

much. Which is why the agent dragged his feet. When

Martin Goodman said $150, he meant $150, not $151!”

Roy started to investigate the field a little more, and

one night, stopping by the newsstand on the way to the

subway, he picked up another Conan novel. In the back

it had an address for Glen Lord, literary agent for the

Robert E. Howard estate, Pasadena, Texas. Roy took a

shot. Why not? He wrote Lord, relating what he planned

and offering $200 for the rights. I’m surprised Martin

Goodman didn’t hear Roy’s typewriter upping the offer

all the way across town. Roy explained that it was a

great chance to get more exposure for Conan, and also

that he didn’t really have any room to negotiate (Goodman

was probably already getting a rope ready). He heard back

quickly. Lord had accepted. Sorry, Thongor, you’ll have to

wait a couple years more for your own comic.

Great. “Now all I had to do was figure how to get the

extra $50 past Martin Goodman.” One way? Hire a cheap

writer, or at least one that could cut his rate if Goodman

kicked. For Roy that meant writing it himself. “I hadn’t

figured on writing it in the beginning. I was thinking

Gerry Conway maybe. . .” It was $50 that changed Roy

Thomas’ life, starting him on a journey that lasted over

200 issues (yes, I know they weren’t consecutive), two years

of a comic strip, record albums, a paid consultancy on the

first Conan movie, and five drafts of the screenplay for the

second. That 50 bucks would also change the life of some-

one else, Barry Windsor-Smith (then just Barry Smith; for

history’s sake, that’s how I’ll refer to him throughout).

John the Expensive,Barry the Not So Much“Stan and I thought that John Buscema would be per-

fect [for Conan]. He’d been reading the books, and was

ecstatic: ‘It’s not super-heroes! When do we start?’ He was

ready.” Except for that $50 and Martin Goodman again.


Martin evidently did notice that his mandated $150 had

been raised by a full third. John Buscema? Great artist . . .

Roy had worked with him on The Avengers and Sub-Mariner

—he’d be perfect. Except for his page rate. John was at

the time too well paid (if that term can be applied to any

comics creator besides Spawn’s Todd McFarlane), he was

at the top of Marvel’s page rate. Better to have someone

a mite lower, like at the bottom. Like maybe that British kid.

The one that drew that issue of X-Men [#53] on a park

bench and then got deported. Smith.

Barry Smith was Roy’s second choice, having worked

with the young Englishman on several projects before

(including a proposed team of Red Raven, Bucky, and

Quicksilver that never got off the ground; order the CBA

Collection Vol. 1 for more info—no, I don’t get a cut).

Barry was back in England after having been working at

Marvel for a year or so without the benefit of a green

card. He had been deported, but not forgotten. Barry said

yes. Roy sent him a stack of the Lancer Conan paperbacks.

Barry started studying, and Roy worked on his approach

to Howard. At the time, drawing with the dynamism of

Kirby was a Marvel style, and Barry was known as some-

thing of a Jack Kirby clone. Here’s Barry: “In my case there

was no problem—I had an idée fixe that comics were Kirby

and, in so drawing a comic, I drew it, to the best of my

young abilities, as if I was Jack Kirby . . . real drawing was

academic, but comics were Kirby.”

Would Barry’s Jack Kirby mannerisms work on a Howard

character? Roy? “That was one of the reasons I chose

him! I really liked the Jack Kirby influence in him, and it

would help the Marvel readers!” At that time, Roy didn’t

have the rights to the Conan stories, just the right to use

Conan himself. So he wrote up an original plot for the first

issue, trying to keep the Howard flavor, and sent it off to

England to his new artist.

But what about those Howard readers? You know

that some REH fans can be very . . . passionate.

Roy: “Oh, yes! I know it! No matter what I did, I got

letters.” Fans are very protective of ones they believed have

been wronged, and they had cause to believe that Howard’s

legacy, Conan in particular, had been grievously mistreat-

ed under the stewardship (some say “heavy hand”) of author

L. Sprague de Camp. De Camp had started editing the

Howard Conan stories in the ’50s, then began the prac-

tice of “converting” non-Conan Howard stories into tales

of Conan. It was a practice that many Howard fans viewed

unsympathetically. When they heard the news, many REH

fans waited for what they figured

would be another desecration. They

shouldn’t have worried.

Roy Thomas was probably the

best man for the job. He approached

the work with respect: “I really liked

Howard’s prose. By then I’d read all

Howard’s paperbacks. I wanted to keep

as much Howard as I could.” He made

sure that the name “Robert E. Howard”

was credited in every story, and that

each time an actual story was used,

the story and Howard were again

credited. Roy created sort of a code:

When he used a Howard story and

made only minor changes, the credits

would read “Adapted from the story”;

when he added to it greatly, it would

say “freely adapted”; and when he

made up a story completely, it

would read “Based on the character

created by REH.” This was at a time

when a lot of Howard’s fans felt there

was a movement to divorce Howard

from Conan, to diminish the impor-

tance of the original stories to build

up the “character.” Roy didn’t have to

do that Howard credit—it wasn’t in

the agreement with Glen Lord. He did

it out of respect for the stories, and

for Howard. The fans noticed. But they

could still find things to complain

about . . . hey, they’re fans.

So, what to call the newest title in

the Mighty Marvel pantheon? “I called

it Conan the Barbarian, which hadn’t

been used by Howard per se, but had been

used as the title of one of the Gnome hardbacks, so it

wouldn’t be as familiar to the Lancer readers.”

Now that the name of the comic was set, the artist

was in place, and Roy had chosen himself as writer (the

poor guy), one more approach problem had to be ironed

out: Should Marvel use the Miller/Clark/de Camp Conan

outline? (Note here: The Miller/Clark outline is something

devised by a couple of Conan fans in the ’30s, with a few

notes from Howard. They went and put all the Conan

stories in order, roughly outlining Conan’s life, then it was

Were you stuck on

Conan in the 1970s?

Two barbarian peel-

offs from the Marvel

Sticker Set.

© 1975 Marvel Comics Group



later revised by de Camp to include the sto-

ries he added. This is a real fan thing to do,

like putting all the Star Trek episodes in order

of Stardate . . . I know, please, send no lists.)

Roy decided he would. “These days they’ve

packed the timeline so tight, if Conan stubbed

his toe you’d have to write a story about it.”

How would Conan be aged? “I decided that

each year of the comic would be a year in

Conan’s life”—start with him young, in his

teens, then progress to the first story in the de

Camp chronology, “The Tower of the Elephant.”

Marvel’s Conan #1 would not be an adapta-

tion, but would serve to introduce the character

and let both artist and writer get the feel of

him, then they would hit the ground running

with the first Howard story. Maybe.

The first Howard story adapted to the comics was

not a Conan story, but one Howard set originally in ancient

Ireland: “The Grey God Passes.” Here’s Roy:

“De Camp had made a practice, in the books, of adapt-

ing non-Conan stories and making Conans out of them.

He did that in Tales of Conan. I thought de Camp had a

good idea there, so I suggested to Glen that I be allowed

to do the same thing in the comics.” A system was worked

out where, if Thomas wanted to adapt a certain Conan

story, Marvel would pay a sum of money, “a pittance of

filthy lucre,” Roy calls it, and Roy would write his adap-

tation and send it across the pond to Barry Smith. The

first instance of this wasn’t a Conan story, but it was too

good a story to pass up. The result was “Twilight of the

Grim Grey God” in issue #3, one of the best of the first

These Conan character

studies (shared with

us by Bob McLeod)

show why John Buscema

was Stan Lee and Roy

Thomas’ first—but

originally unattainable

—choice to draw

Conan the Barbarian.




Here’s a secret: We’d originally planned

a Sandman “Pro2Pro” between Neil

Gaiman and Karen Berger for this issue,

but Neil’s busy schedule delayed it to a future,

undetermined ish. But this mesmerizing

Morpheus sketch—commissioned from BillSienkiewicz at the 1999 San Diego

Comic-Con by its contributor Jay Caldwell—

was just too astonishing to postpone.

© 2005 DC Comics.

Writer Roy Thomas and artist Barry Windsor-Smithcollaborated on the barbarian tale “The Sword and the

Sorcerers,” featuring Starr the Slayer, for Marvel’s

Chamber of Darkness #4 (Apr. 1970)—published six months

before Conan the Barbarian #1. It was reprinted in Conan #16.

Original art scan courtesy of Jeff Jatras.


Capt ions by Michae l Eury

special feature


Our friends at Heritage Comics recently auctioned some remarkable items

from the collection of Elfquest creators Richard and Wendy Pini, and we’re

honored to share two of them with you here: an undated Blackmark illo

by Gil Kane (left) and a 1980 Tor sketch (below) by Joe Kubert.

Lastly, another Heritage gem: Tarzan by Jeff Jones (inset).

Blackmark © 2005 Gil Kane estate.Tor © 2005 Joe Kubert.Tarzan © 2005 ERB, Inc.


Remember “Weirdworld”,

Marvel’s 1970s’ series “in the fantasy

tradition of Tolkien”? This sporadically

published storyline started as a back-

up in the 1976 black-and-white mag

Marvel Super Action #1 (starring the

Punisher, of all characters!) before

spinning off into Marvel Premiere #38

(1977), where this extraordinary

page by Mike Ploog and

Alex Niño appeared. Original

art courtesy of Heritage Comics.


We couldn’t celebrate fantasy comics of the 1970s and 1980s

without including Elfquest! From the Heritage Comics

auction of items from the Pini collection comes this

wonderful Wendy Pini-drawn original cover to

Marvel/Epic’s Elfquest #2. (And we promise, BACK ISSUE will

eventually cover this enchanting series and its creators.)

© 2005 Warp Graphics.


Arthur Suydam, a protégé of EC legend Joe Orlando (among others), is an artist’s artist whohas chosen to avoid the mainstream for most of his extensive career. Although he describeshimself as someone who has always been on the fringe of the comics industry, Suydamhas nonetheless won over a number of mainstream readers with his work on such series asHeavy Metal’s Mudwogs, Epic Illustrated’s Cholly and Flytrap, and a collection of cutting-edge short stories. If you haven’t heard Suydam’s name mentioned in a while, you maynot be alone. His absence from the comics scene is, oddly enough, intentional, the resultof his hard work and singular devotion to his art. Over the years, many of the projects thatSuydam has worked on have, for a variety of reasons, not made it to fruition. They are nowemerging, ready to be unveiled to his eager fans. Suydam is finding the spotlight as hebegins new chapters for some of his most famous creations—Mudwogs is back inHeavy Metal, while Cholly and Flytrap have a new home at Image. He has released a seriesof new The Art of the Barbarian books that tie in very well with the theme of this editionof BACK ISSUE —Dan Johnsonin

terv

iew

byD

anJo

hnso

nco

nduc

ted

onM

arch

10,2

005

Suydam’s “When

Giants Walk the

Earth,” the 2005

Spectrum Magazine

Gold Medal winner.

Unless otherwise

noted, all artwork

accompanying this

interview appears

courtesy of the

artist and Renee

Witterstaetter.

© 2005 Arthur Suydam.

DAN JOHNSON: Let’s discuss your new book: What can

you tell us about The Art of the Barbarian?

ARTHUR SUYDAM: I am quite proud of Art of the Barbarian.

I put a lot of work into it, and there were many hurdles

along the way. It started off as a sketch book, and ended

up more as a fine art book. Currently it is softcover, but there

are plans to do an expanded hardcover later on, which will

truly make it an art book. It has more than 200 illustrations

in it already, with eight pull-out plates printed on archival

paper. It features a lot of the barbarian art I have been work-

ing on over the years, and most of it is new material. The

book contains some sepia studies from a Conan figurine

set that I worked on a few years ago, as well as unpublished

artwork from a barbarian book, my own, that I will publish

later this year with Eva Ink. Additionally, I did some artwork

on the Death Dealer, a barbarian character I illustrated a

few years back. That job was colored by computer. Now

readers for the first time can see what the artwork looked

like before it got lost in the coloring. The Art of the Barbarian

book also features work from Tarzan and other Conan

artwork. I’ve been asked by the publisher to do a second

one, The Art of the Barbarian

Book Two. I hear Roy Thomas

might be involved with that.

I don’t know, it remains to

be seen.

JOHNSON: As I understand


2003 Conan

figure studies for

Dark Horse Comics.

Conan © 2005 Conan Properties.Art © 2005 Arthur Suydam.

Beginnings:Short stories for Joe Orlando at DC Comics (1980s)

Milestones:Heavy Metal / Mudwogs / Cholly and Flytrap /The Art of the Barbarian: Conan, Tarzan, DeathDealer / 2005 Spectrum Magazine Gold Medalwinner for artistic excellence

Works in Progress:Cholly and Flytrap (Image Comics) / Mudwogs monthlyin Heavy Metal / as-yet-untitled creator-ownedbarbarian story / The Alien Encounters Poster Book /The Femme Fatale Art of Arthur Suydam (Eva Ink andImage Comics) / Bedtime Stories for the Incarcerated

(Last Gasp) / giclees from HeroicFine Art / The Fantastic Art ofArthur Suydam (VanguardProductions) / The Art of theBarbarian 2006 Calendar

Cyberspace:www.evaink.com

it, you worked on an unpublished Conan graphic novel at

one point with Roy. What can you tell us about that?

SUYDAM: Oh, yeah. Let’s see here, a few years ago I did

a project collaborating with Roy. We got the thing all fin-

ished, and up to Marvel for scanning. This happened to be

right around the time of the big crash in comic books.

The book was being scanned right around the time Marvel

decided to fire all of their staff including the editor of the

Conan project, I guess. A lot of people were bitter over being

fired and someone apparently, on their way out, must

have decided to pick up the artwork for that story and take

it as some kind of severance benefit. Anyway, it seems to

have vanished.

JOHNSON: Ouch. Sorry. Back to Roy—he’s the go-to man

if you want to talk barbarians.

SUYDAM: Roy is the most knowledgeable guy of the

barbarian genre, Conan specifically, that I have ever known.

It is amazing how much he knows, down to every detail

about every character that was ever written about in the

Conan series. It is almost as if he wrote those stories

himself.

JOHNSON: What about Tarzan? Are you a big fan of

that character?

SUYDAM: Yeah, the artists who worked on Tarzan and came

before me inspired me, and I really enjoyed the early Johnny

Weissmuller movies. I have an affinity for that character.

JOHNSON: Art of the Barbarian marks a huge return for

you to the comics industry. It seemed like you fell off the

radars there for a while, and some folks even thought you

had gotten out of the business. That was not the case though,

was it? From what I gather, it sounds like you were working

on a few projects that readers just never got the chance

to see.

SUYDAM: Right. I was never gone. I worked in film for a

while. I am also a musician, and that plays an important part

in my life. In fact, I was able to mesh the two worlds in

December [2004] when my publisher sponsored a fund-

raiser for the Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art in

Manhattan. I got my band together, made up of topnotch

musicians who have played with Pat Benatar, James Taylor,

Bruce Springsteen, etc., as have I, and we rocked the

house. Ha! Or at least folks seemed to have a good time.

But, yes, I would say that is probably my history, and

my entire career, in comics. I have not sought the spot-

light. I basically always work on projects on the fringe

and I avoid working on characters that are mainstream.

At least up until now. I am a creator and a writer as well

as an artist, and I always enjoyed writing my own stories

and characters.

I also worked on the first issue of a science fiction and

fantasy magazine, Forbidden Zone, but the company was

a dot.com enterprise that unfortunately went down the


This rare 1997

Conan illo by

Suydam was

unpublished until

2005’s The Art of

the Barbarian.

Conan © 2005 Conan Properties.Art © 2005 Arthur Suydam.

(right) A boss photo

of Bruce Springsteen,

Arthur Suydam,

and a friend.

Documents

Back Issue #11