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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

    CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA

    HONORABLE DAVID O. CARTER, JUDGE PRESIDING

    CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT

    - - - - - - -

    ALLERGAN I NC. , ET AL, , ))

    Pl ai nt i f f ( s) , ))

    vs. ) No. SACV 14- 1214

    ) VOL. I VVALEANT PHARMACEUTI CALS )I NTERNATI ONAL I NC. , ET AL, , ) )

    Def endant ( s) . )_________________________________)

    REPORTER' S TRANSCRI PT OF PROCEEDI NGS

    PLAI NTI FF' S PRELI MI NARY I NJ UNCTI ON

    SANTA ANA, CALI FORNI A

    TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2014

    MARI A BEESLEY, CSR, RMROf f i ci al Feder al Repor t er

    Ronal d Reagan Feder al Bui l di ng, Room 1- 053411 West 4th St r eet

    Sant a Ana, Cal i f orni a 92701( 714) 564- 9259

    amar i a1957@yahoo. com

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL:

    FOR THE PLAI NTI FF( S) : LATHAM & WATKI NSBY: PETER WALD, ESQ. 505 MONTGOMERY STREETSUI TE 2000SAN FRANCI SCO, CALI FORNI A 94111( 415) 391- 0600

    LATHAM & WATKI NSBY: MI CHELE J OHNSON, AAL650 TOWN CENTER DRI VE20TH FLOORCOSTA MESA, CALI FORNI A 92626

    ( 714) 540- 1235

    FOR THE PLAI NTI FF( S) : WACHTELL LI PTON ROSEN & KATZBY: WI LLI AM SAVI TT, ESQ. 51 WEST 52ND STREETNEW YORK, NEW YORK 10019( 212) 403- 2329

    FOR THE DEFENDANT( S) VALEANT PHARMACEUTI CALS: SULLI VAN & CROMWELL

    BY: BRI AN FRAWLEY, ESQ. and J OHN HARDI MAN, ESQ.125 BROAD STREETNEW YORK, NEW YORK 10004( 212) 558- 4983

    SULLI VAN & CROMWELLBY: EDWARD J OHNSON, ESQ. 1888 CENTURY PARK EAST21ST FLOOR

    LOS ANGELES, CALI FORNI A 90067( 310) 712- 6640

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    FOR THE DEFENDANT( S) PERSHI NG SQUARE: KI RKLAND & ELLI SBY: MARK HOLSCHER, ESQ.and MI CHAEL SHI PLEY, ESQ.

    AUSTI N NORRI S, ESQ.333 SOUTH HOPE STREETLOS ANGELES, CALI FORNI A 90071( 213) 680- 8190

    Al so Pr esent f or Pl ai nt i f f s: Doug I ngr am, Kar ah Par schauer ,Ar ni e Pi nkst on, Mat t Mol eda, Gavi n Her ber t ,

    Al so Pr esent f or Def endant s: Mi chael Pear son, Howar d Chi l l er ,Rober t Shyon, Wi l l i am Ackman, Davi d Schl ai f er

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    SANTA ANA, CALIFORNIA, TUESDAY, OCTOBER 28, 2014

    VOL. IV

    ( 3: 46)

    THE COURT: Counsel , on behal f of t he def ense. And

    we' r e back i n sessi on, al l counsel ar e pr esent , t he par t i es ar e

    pr esent .

    Mr . Hol scher .

    MR. HOLSCHER: Yes, Your Honor . I ' m goi ng t o t r y and

    di r ect l y answer your quest i ons. My co- counsel i s goi ng t o

    di r ect l y answer a f ew ot her s.

    Wi t h r espect t o Exhi bi t 37, Your Honor , your quest i on

    was how we wer e r el yi ng on par agr aph one. Par agr aph one, Your

    Honor , i s t he SEC' s i nt er pr et at i on t hat we ar e co- bi dder s and

    co- of f er or s and shoul d be l i st ed as co- of f er or s. We' r e not

    r el yi ng on t hem i n t er ms of our pr i or conduct . I t i s t hei r

    det er mi nat i on of our st at us r egar dl ess of t i me. I t ' s not an i ssue

    whet her we t ook subst ant i al st eps. I n par agr aph one, t hey' r e

    sayi ng you are a co- bi dder , be added as an of f eror . We were

    descr i bed i n t he of f er i ng document s as an of f er or . Look, put i t

    on t he t i t l e page. So i t ' s t hei r det er mi nat i on of our st at us, not

    t hat we r el i ed on t he l anguage. I t ' s t hei r act ual det er mi nat i on.

    Wi t h r espect t o par agr aph f our , Your Honor , you r ai sed

    quest i ons as - - t her e i s a quest i on bei ng asked her e. That ' s one

    of 34 quest i ons bei ng asked by corporat e f i nance, Your Honor . At

    t he ur gi ng of Al l er gan - - t hey cal l ed i t a bedbug l et t er - - t hey

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    sent a l et t er sayi ng - - demand we answer t hese quest i ons. We

    answer ed t he SEC' s quest i ons wi t h t he same document s and

    i nf or mat i on we gave you. Per i od. Har d st op. We j ust i f i ed our

    conduct . And t hey can spec i t al l t hey want . The SEC moves f ast

    when i t want s t o move f ast , Your Honor .

    I f you wer e t o f i nd a subst ant i al quest i on as t o a

    vi ol at i on of t he secur i t i es l aws, i f t he di vi s i on of cor por at e

    f i nance sends i t s one of 34 quest i ons, I submi t , Your Honor , t hat

    st andar d woul d be met i n near l y ever y host i l e t r ansact i on because

    t hi s i s what happens. The ot her si de says, make t hem answer .

    They answer . They go back and f or t h. That doesn' t cr eat e

    subst ant i al quest i ons under t he l aw f or an i nj unct i on.

    Second, Your Honor , you asked quest i ons about whet her

    r epl acement of di r ect or s can be i r r eparabl e harm t o a company.

    Ther e ar e t wo cases, Your Honor , t hat ar e on poi nt . Gearhart v.

    Smith, 741 F. 2D, 707, 717, 718. Fi f t h Ci r cui t , 1984. Telex v.

    Edelman, 1987 case, Nor t her n Di st r i ct of Okl ahoma. Bot h say, Your

    Honor , as you ant i ci pat ed, t he r emoval of di r ect or s cannot be

    i r r epar abl e har m.

    Al so, we ci t ed t he Ranger Oil case, Your Honor . Ther e

    t hey f i nd t hat even t he change of cont r ol i s not i r r epar abl e har m.

    We haven' t t al ked much about t hat case. I won' t go at l engt h. I

    woul d j ust say t o you and your cl er ks, Your Honor , t hat case i s as

    cl ose t o on al l f our s as t hi s case as any and r ej ect s t he

    ar gument s.

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    Counsel keeps maki ng t he sweepi ng st at ement t hat many

    cases have done t hi s i nj unct i on. I t ' s j ust not t r ue, Your Honor .

    I t ' s not t r ue. Let me descr i be t hei r best case, t he Khan case.

    I t ' s f asci nat i ng, Your Honor . Khan i s agai nst I CN, whi ch i s t he

    pr ecur sor t o t he company t hat Val eant bought . Khan. I CN had

    st andi ng because i t was I PO. They gave hi m t he shares, number

    one. St andi ng, t hey gave hi m t he shar es.

    Number t wo, he was t he under wr i t er . He t ook t hei r

    conf i dent i al i nf or mat i on he had a f i duci ar y r esponsi bi l i t y t o keep

    and he st ol e i t . He used i t t o do a t akeover . The di st r i ct cour t

    j udge si t t i ng i n your chai r f ound t hat Khan per j ur ed hi msel f .

    Tr i ed t o sneak i n change of cont r ol by l yi ng and i nsi der t r adi ng.

    The di st r i ct cour t si t t i ng i n your chai r - - t hei r st andi ng because

    i t ' s t hei r shar es - - says, you know, he shoul dn' t be abl e t o vot e

    hi s shar es. You know what t he Second ci r cui t sai d? No, no, no.

    As soon as he makes t he cor r ect ed di scl osur e, he i s an i nsi der

    t r ader and t hat cor r ect ed di scl osur e i s made, he can vot e.

    Your Honor , you r ead t hei r best case. You r ead t he Khan

    case. And l i ke you sai d, t hey' r e f act speci f i c. A case wher e

    t her e i s st andi ng, a case wher e i t ' s a f i duci ar y, st ol e

    i nf or mat i on. And you know what t he Second Ci r cui t s ays? Goes t o

    t he pr ot ect i on of shar ehol der s. Hey, once you di scl ose t o t he

    mar ket t hat t hi s guy engaged i n i nsi der t r adi ng, he i s f r ee af t er

    he j ust pr e- cl ear s wi t h t he SEC what ever he i s goi ng t o f i l e f or

    t he pr oxi es. So t he SEC get s a l ook at i t , t he j udge i s goi ng t o

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    l ook at i t . Look, we' r e goi ng t o make sur e he i s not l yi ng al l

    t he t i me, but he can t r y and t ake over t he company.

    You r ead Khan, t hei r best case, st andi ng, f i duc i ar y.

    I t ' s cl ear , Your Honor , under t hese f act s no way t hat t her e i s an

    i nj unct i on.

    Your Honor , al so asked - -

    THE COURT: That ' s i f cor r ect i ve measur es wer e t aken i n

    Khan. And her e, i f t her e i s an i ssue, t her e haven' t been

    cor r ect i ve measur es accor di ng t o pl ai nt i f f ' s counsel . Now t hey

    hope t o hi t a home r un. They hope t o knock out 9. 7 per cent . But

    t he cor r ect i ve measur es spoken about or spoken t o i n Khan, i t may

    be ar gued don' t exi st her e.

    You haven' t cur ed, i f t he cour t f i nds t hat t her e i s

    r eason f or i nj unct i ve r el i ef , you haven' t cur ed t hose.

    MR. HOLSCHER: 13 di scl osur es of t he i nsi der t r adi ng

    cl ai ms, Your Honor .

    THE COURT: I ' m not t oo cer t ai n I ' m i mpr essed wi t h t he

    number . I ' m i mpr essed wi t h t he cont ent . And I ' m not t oo cer t ai n

    t hat t hose di scl osur es t hat wer e made go t o t he hear t of what t he

    def endant was ar gui ng a f ew moment s ago.

    MR. HOLSCHER: I nt er est i ng, Your Honor , what he ar gued a

    f ew moment s ago i s not what was i n hi s mot i on. I t was i n hi s

    r epl y br i ef . Hi s mot i on sai d you need t o di scl ose t her e was

    i nsi der t r adi ng, and t hat ' s a di sc l osur e i ssue. Then t he r epl y

    br i ef , af t er we put i n Mr . Pyot t ' s t est i mony and t he evi dence t hat

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    ever y shar ehol der knew t he al l egat i ons, t hey i mpr oper l y swi t ch i n

    t he r epl y br i ef .

    You know when he t al ks about t he pr oposed or der ? I

    r equest , Your Honor , you and your cl erks go back and l ook at t hei r

    f i r st pr oposed or der of t he mot i on, and t hen t hey changed i t .

    They changed i t f or new di scl osur es not i n t hei r mot i on. I t

    vi ol at es t hi s cour t ' s rul es , t he Ni nt h Ci r cui t ' s rul es .

    Thei r mot i on, t hei r r equest f or di scl osur e was, you

    engaged i n i nsi der t r adi ng. Not t hi s f i nanci ng i ssue, not t hese

    ot her t wo i ssues. You can' t put i t i n a r epl y br i ef . Ther e was

    al so no f act s devel oped i n t hi s case.

    So t hei r new di scl osur es, Your Honor , not appr opr i at e.

    They wer en' t i n t he mot i on. They' r e not ent i t l ed t o i t .

    You al so Your Honor asked t he quest i on - -

    THE COURT: J ust a moment . When somebody asks f or

    i nj unct i ve rel i ef , t hi s cour t i s not t i ed t o t hei r speci f i c

    r equest . I n ot her wor ds, I f ashi oned, event ual l y, t hat i nj unct i ve

    r el i ef . Counsel can suggest i t t o t he cour t . I t doesn' t mat t er

    whet her i t comes i n an openi ng br i ef or a r epl y, i t ' s ul t i mat el y

    t hi s cour t ' s deci s i on about what i s f ai r i n t er ms of t hat

    i nj unct i ve r el i ef .

    MR. HOLSCHER: Agr eed. But i f a par t y says Val eant ,

    Per shi ng Squar e you need t o j ust i f y t hese t hi ngs, you need t o

    di scl ose t hem, and we l i t i gat e t hat on an expedi t ed schedul e, and

    t hey f i l e a mot i on and t hen don' t r ai se i t and say, " J udge, I want

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    t o di scl ose t hese i ssues t hat we di dn' t gi ve a chance t o br i ef , "

    t hat ' s not per mi ssi bl e.

    Let me go t o your ot her quest i on, Your Honor . Does a

    shar ehol der have st andi ng t o st op us f r om vot i ng? No.

    Ms. Par schauer can seek money damages. That ' s t he Brody case and

    t hat ' s t he Supr eme Cour t case i n Rondeau. Cl ear as can be. Money

    damages i s her r el i ef . The SEC had st andi ng f or an i nj unct i on.

    You asked t he quest i on - -

    THE COURT: And Al l er gan i t sel f , t he cor por at e ent i t y?

    MR. HOLSCHER: No st andi ng, Your Honor .

    THE COURT: Why?

    MR. HOLSCHER: They' r e not t he i ss uer .

    THE COURT: Why? Ther e i s no l aw i n t hi s ar ea t hat I

    coul d f i nd.

    MR. HOLSCHER: Brody i s t he l aw whi ch i s, 1483 i s meant

    t o be cont empor aneous t r ades. I t doesn' t say cont empor aneous

    t r ades unl ess you ar e t he company who i ss ued t he st ock 10 year s

    bef or e.

    THE COURT: Don' t get t oo cl ose t o counsel .

    ( LAUGHTER)

    MR. HOLSCHER: We' r e okay. I t ' s a cl i ent i ssue.

    MR. WALD: He t ouched me, Your Honor .

    ( LAUGHTER)

    MR. HOLSCHER: So, Your Honor , Brody doesn' t have a

    car ve- out t hat says i t must be cont empor aneous t r adi ng unl ess i t ' s

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    t he i ssuer 10 years bef ore so t hey can say t hey got some i nt erest .

    Agai n, l ook at t he Khan case. They were t he i ssuer .

    So you asked t he quest i on i f t her e ar e ser i ous quest i ons

    on t he mer i t s, coul d you pot ent i al l y i ssue an i nj unct i on f or

    ser i ous quest i ons on t he mer i t ? Those cases on pr el i mi nar y

    i nj unct i on, Your Honor , don' t r educe t he st andar d. They say i f

    i t ' s shar pl y t i pped i n i r r epar abl e har m, t hen ser i ous quest i ons

    coul d be enough i f i t ' s shar pl y t i pped.

    We' ve wal ked t hr ough t he f act , and I won' t r epeat i t ,

    t her e has t o be a vot e. We have t o wi n t he vot e. Ther e have t o

    be new di r ect or s; new di r ect or s by t he f i duci ar y dut y. Del awar e

    cour t s have t o do somet hi ng wr ong.

    Let me ask you t hi s, Your Honor . One t hi ng t hat ' s never

    been ment i oned. When you t hi nk about t hi s, t he shar ehol ders, you

    want t o have shar ehol ders i n your cour t ?

    THE COURT: Sur e.

    MR. HOLSCHER: Ther e i s not one shar ehol der her e t oday

    ot her t han management sayi ng t hey want t o st op us f r om vot i ng.

    You enj oi n t hi s and t hat $19 bi l l i on of shar ehol der val ue, t he

    expect at i on we' r e goi ng t o go f or war d, t hat $19 bi l l i on t o

    shar ehol der s, you' l l have shar ehol der s.

    Her e i s t he poi nt , Your Honor . What i s t he bond? What

    i s the bond? I f you t ake t hi s ext r aor di nar y r el i ef , not an

    i ssuer , not a cont empor aneous buyer or sel l er , and you f i nd out

    l at er af t er your t r i al ni ne mont hs f r om now t hat , you know what ?

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    MARIA BEESLEY, OFFICIAL REPORTER, CSR, RMR

    SACV 14- 1214- DOC - 10/ 28/ 2014 - VOL. I V

    Maybe t he SEC was r i ght i n t hat J ul y l et t er . Maybe t hose seven

    wi t ness es wi t h uni mpeached t est i mony or document s wer e r i ght .

    Ther e wer en' t subst ant i al st eps. Maybe I made a mi st ake buyi ng

    counsel ' s ar gument s i n t he f ace of al l t he evi dence, how much are

    t hey gonna pay?

    THE COURT: Let me ask you somet hi ng. I f t hi s cour t

    enj oi ned t he 9. 7 - - not i ce I keep har pi ng on 9. 7, not 10 as t he

    document st at es - - bond may be appr opr i at e and you woul d have a

    good ar gument . I t hi nk Al l er gan mi ght shudder . But i f i t ' s

    di scl osur e, i f i t ' s cor r ect i ve act i on t hat ' s needed and

    not i f i cat i on t o t he shar ehol der s, t hen I ' m not cer t ai n what t he

    bondi ng pr ovi si ons woul d be. I n f act , I t hi nk i t woul d be al most

    ni l .

    MR. HOLSCHER: Fai r poi nt , Your Honor . My counsel i s

    goi ng t o addr ess t hi s co- bi dder quest i on whi ch goes t o t he hear t

    of your concer n wi t h a ver y compel l i ng answer . And I t hi nk we' r e

    goi ng t o cover t hat and you ar e goi ng t o be pl eased, I hope. But

    I can t el l Your Honor t hat i n t hi s case, wi t h t hese di scl osur es

    and our conduct , i t ' s cl ear l y appr opr i at e what we di d.

    THE COURT: Okay. Thank you ver y much.

    MR. FRAWLEY: Good af t er noon, Your Honor . Agai n Br i an

    Frawl ey, f or t he r ecor d, f or Val eant .

    I ' m goi ng t o st ar t wher e Mr . Hol scher l ef t of f wi t h t he

    quest i on about - -

    THE COURT: Ver y succi nct l y now. You ar e not goi ng t o03: 58

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    r et r ace your openi ng ar gument .

    MR. FRAWLEY: I ' m not . So t he f i r st quest i on was about

    t he or i gi n of i t . And Sl i de 37 of Al l er gan' s pr esent at i on

    act ual l y pr ovi des the or i gi n of t he co- bi dder t hi ng. Thi s i s par t

    of t he di f f i cul t y of peopl e maki ng ar gument s wi t hout aski ng

    quest i ons i n di scover y about i t .

    The co- bi dder t hi ng came f r om Canadi an counsel . I t i s a

    Canadi an l egal i ssue, not an Amer i can l egal i ssue. Val eant i s a

    Canadi an cor por at i on. The r equest t o use t he co- bi dder l abel i n

    t he exhi bi t Al l ergan has shown you on page 37 of t hei r

    pr esent at i on came f r om Canadi an counsel . That ' s why t hey were

    cal l ed co- bi dder s.

    Ever ybody knew t hey were cal l ed co- bi dders f r om t he ver y

    st ar t . Up on t he scr een i s t he ver y f i r st f i l i ng made by Val eant

    and Per shi ng Squar e on Apr i l 21, 2014. Thi s i s t he f i l i ng t hat

    di scl osed Per shi ng Squar e' s st ake. At t ached t o t hi s f i l i ng,

    Exhi bi t 4 t o Mr . Hol scher ' s af f i davi t , i s t he actual r el at i onshi p

    agr eement t hat we have been t al ki ng about t hat descr i bed t he

    ent i t i es as co- bi dder s and descr i bed PS Fund 1 as t he co- bi ddi ng

    ent i t y. So t he co- bi dder concept has been i n t he publ i c si nce t he

    ver y moment t hi s was di scl osed.

    You al so asked t he quest i on, I wi l l be even br i ef er on

    t hi s one, about t he obj ect i vi t y of subst ant i al st eps. Fr om our

    per spect i ve, Your Honor , sect i on 14( e) i s a f r aud st at ut e. You

    can' t r ead f r aud out of t he st at ut e by a r ul e. The Supr eme Cour t

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    r ul ed t hat i n Ernst & Ernst v. Hochfelder. So t her e has t o be

    some subj ect i ve el ement t o t he t est . Ot her wi se, we have a st r i ct

    l i abi l i t y st at ut e.

    You al so asked i f we had any aut hor i t y. On page 28 of

    our opposi t i on t o t he ci t at i on t o a Nor t her n Di st r i ct of Okl ahoma

    di s t r i ct cour t case, Telex Corp, t hat actual l y hol ds t hat t her e i s

    a subj ect i ve el ement t o i t . And as I ment i oned, Your Honor , we

    bel i eve t hat t he Exchange Act r el i ef t hat accompani es t he r ul e

    says t hat as wel l .

    The l ast quest i on, Your Honor , you asked t hat i f t her e

    i s a di f f er ent st andar d bet ween an of f er i ng per son and a bi dder ,

    and i f I wer e t o assume, whi ch I don' t , t hat of f er i ng per son i s

    somebody nar r ower t han bi dder as opposed t o br oader , whi ch i s our

    pos i t i on, I t hi nk i t ' s f ai r t o say, Your Honor , t hat i f you ar e i n

    f act a pur chaser i n t he t ender of f er , t hat you have put your

    wal l et on t he l i ne, you have t o be abl e t o pur chase because t hat ' s

    t he whol e i dea behi nd al l owi ng t he t ender of f er t o make advanced

    pur chases.

    So Per shi ng Square here has agr eed, t hey l i ke t o say

    i t ' s onl y a backst op, but i t ' s a $59 mi l l i on backst op. Thei r

    money i s on t he l i ne her e. They have agr eed t o purchase t hese

    shar es. They' r e an of f er i ng per son under any st andar d.

    And unl ess t he cour t has any quest i ons. . .

    THE COURT: No. J ust t he same cour t esy. Check wi t h

    your co- counsel , make sur e you have cover ed al l of your ar gument s

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    and check wi t h your cl i ent s f or j ust a moment .

    MR. FRAWLEY: Your Honor , t he def endant s wi l l r est on

    t hei r paper s and our ar gument . Thank you.

    THE COURT: I want t o t hank al l of you t hen.

    I see you ar e r eady t o spr i ng t o your f eet wi t h

    sur r epl y.

    MR. WALD: One mi nut e, Your Honor .

    THE COURT: I f you do, t hat ' s f i ne. But i t ' s co- equal .

    So you get one mi nut e, t hey get 20. I ' m j ust ki ddi ng you. One

    mor e r ound because I know how har d you have wor ked.

    MR. WALD: I have t wo poi nt s and t wo poi nt s onl y. On

    t he Khan case, Your Honor , t he f ol l owi ng comes f r om t he Second

    Ci r cui t ' s opi ni on. Quot e, " I n t hi s case, however , i t i s c l ear

    t hat cor r ect ed di scl osur e woul d not addr ess al l t he secur i t i es l aw

    vi ol at i ons t hat Khan was f ound t o have commi t t ed. "

    THE COURT: You know what i s amazi ng t o me? I s t he

    supposi t i on t hat you t wo have t o read t he Khan cas e t o me.

    MR. WALD: Then you know - -

    THE COURT: Make your poi nt .

    MR. WALD: The poi nt was t hat t he di st r i ct cour t , on t he

    basi s of t he i nsi der t r adi ng vi ol at i on, enj oi ned t he whol e t ender

    o f fe r .

    The Second Ci r cui t sai d you can' t do t hat . You don' t

    need t o enj oi n t he whol e t ender of f er . But one t hi ng you shoul d

    consi der doi ng on r emand i s t o enj oi n t he vot i ng of t he unl awf ul l y

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    acqui r ed shar es. That ' s what t hat quot e i s.

    Your Honor , t he onl y ot her t hi ng I want t o say i s t hat

    t he SEC i n SEC v. Ginsburg, t he 11t h c i r cui t says t hat t he l i s t of

    act i vi t i es t hat can const i t ut e subst ant i al st eps t hat t he SEC has

    publ i shed i s not exhaust i ve and not i nt ended t o be exhaust i ve.

    I t ' s i l l ust r at i ve. And on page 10 of our sl i de deck we have

    l i st ed ei ght t hi ngs whi ch ar e i ncl uded i n t hat l i st whi ch occur r ed

    i n t hi s case. Thank you.

    THE COURT: Counsel , same oppor t uni t y, sur r ebut t al . You

    ar e mor e t han wel come t o.

    MR. HOLSCHER: We' r e f i ne, Your Honor .

    THE COURT: You' r e sur e?

    MR. HOLSCHER: Yes, Your Honor . Thank you ver y much.

    MR. WALD: Thank you, Your Honor .

    THE COURT: I t ' s a pl easur e. Now, I don' t know when

    you' l l hear f r om me, but i t wi l l be i n a r el at i vel y r easonabl e

    per i od of t i me. I f I need addi t i onal br i ef i ng, I ' l l send t hat out

    t o you, and i nst r uct i ons wi l l pr obabl y be no mor e t han f i ve pages.

    I don' t t hi nk so. The number of ar eas I ' m st i l l st r uggl i ng wi t h,

    one of t hose i s st andi ng. That ' s why I r epeat edl y asked you t o

    addr ess t hat par t i cul ar ar ea. Ther e i s not a l ot of l aw t hat

    suppor t s ei t her pos i t i on, f r ankl y.

    So I want t o t hank you. I t hi nk your br i ef i ng was

    excel l ent . I want t o say t hat t o you publ i cl y, and I t hi nk your

    argument s were ext r aor di nary and t he cour t appr eci at es your

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    e f f o r t s .

    I ' m goi ng t o si t her e and keep st udyi ng and I want al l

    of you t o l eave.

    (Whereupon the proceedings were adjourned at 4:03.)

    -oOo-

    CERTIFICATE

    I hereby certify that pursuant to Section 753, Title 28,

    United States Code, the foregoing is a true and correct transcript

    of the stenographically reported proceedings held in the

    above-entitled matter.

    Date: OCTOBER 29, 2014

    /S/______________________________MARIA BEESLEY, RPR, RMROFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

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    Maria

    Beesley

    Digitally signed by Maria Beesley

    DN: cn=Maria Beesley, o, ou,

    [email protected],

    c=US

    Date: 2014.10.29 14:35:23 -07'00'