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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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5 . ^
6 A P P E A R A N C E S
7
8 FOR THE PLAI NTI FF:
9 MR. YOUNG, ESQ.
10
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12
13 FOR THE DEFENDANT:
14 MR. LESLI E, ESQ.
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1
2 I NDEX OF EXAMI NATI ON
3
4
5 EXAMI NATI ON BY PAGE #
6 1st Wi t ness NI CHOLAS DURALDEDi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 7
7 Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 34Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 50
8 Recr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 53Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 56
9
10 2nd Wi t ness NATHANI EL ZARATEDi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 99
11 Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 113Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 137
12 Recr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 138
133r d Wi t ness CORY GOBLE
14 Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 142Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Mr . Lesl i e 155
15 Redi r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Young 16516
17 I NDEX OF EXHI BI TS
18 None mar ked
19
20
2122
23
24
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1 ** . **
2 RENO, NEVADA, WEDNESDAY, AUGUST 29, 2012, 11: 18 A. M.
3 ** . **
4
5 THE COURT: Fi r st of al l , I am goi ng t o r ul e
6 based on t he i n- camer a hear i ng t hat I do not f i nd t hat
7 conf l i ct of i nt er est t hat woul d be subst ant i al as t o
8 deny t he def endant hi s 6t h Amendment r i ght t o counsel
9 i n t hi s case.
10 Wi t h r espect t o t he canvas, si r , I bel i eve
11 you ar e a br i l l i ant per son, and I ' m r ef er r i ng t o Mr .
12 Coughl i n but your anal ysi s of t he mi nut i a of t he case
13 i s wi t hout equal . However , I bel i eve you do have a
14 pr obl em seei ng t he f or est t hr ough t he t r ees. Two days
15 ago I spent an i nor di nat e amount of t i me on t hi s ver y
16 same i ssue, and your i nabi l i t y t o make a si mpl e
17 deci si on, at t hat t i me, r esul t ed i n us comi ng agai n t o
18 t hi s i ssue t oday.
19 Al t hough, I bel i eve i t pr obabl y i s unt i mel y,
20 I am goi ng t o r ul e on your r i ght and I ' m goi ng t o deny
21 you sel f - r epr esent at i on at t hi s t i me because I don' t
22 bel i eve you are compet ent based on your answers t o t he
23 quest i ons as wel l as t he pr evi ous document s you f i l ed
24 i n t hi s case, based upon t he f act t hat you have i n
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 f act been suspended by t he St ate Bar t hat you' ve
2 demonst r at ed l ack of knowl edge of at l east some of t he
3 i mpor t ant cr i mi nal l aw, your l ack of knowl edge of
4 pr ocedur e i n cr i mi nal cases and i n par t i cul ar , t he
5 f act t hat you f i l ed a mot i on f or summary j udgment i n
6 t hi s case. You' ve f i l ed ot her document s whi ch woul d
7 demonst r at e t hat you' r e conf usi ng ci vi l wi t h cr i mi nal
8 pr ocedur e and I ' m concer ned t hat i f you r epr esent ed
9 your sel f i n t hi s case, t hat i t woul d not be i n your
10 best i nt er est s and t her ef or e, I am goi ng t o cont i nue
11 t he wr i t of counsel t hat has been appoi nt ed and we
12 wi l l go f or war d wi t h t he t r i al at t hi s t i me.
13 So Mr . Young, di d you want t o cal l your f i r st
14 wi t ness?
15 THE DEFENDANT: I ' m sor r y, your Honor , woul d
16 i t be mor e cor r ect t o say we' l l cont i nue wi t h t he
17 hear i ng on the mot i on to suppr ess?
18 MR. YOUNG: Ver y br i ef l y, your Honor , i t was
19 par t and par cel wi t h t he mot i on or t he opposi t i on f or
20 co- counsel - -
21 THE COURT: I ' m goi ng t o - - I ' m goi ng t o
22 gr ant t he mot i on t o st r i ke al l document s t hat wer e
23 f i l ed by Mr . Coughl i n unl ess t hey wer e j oi ned i n by
24 t he publ i c def ender , and I don' t know i f t he publ i c
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1 def ender j oi ned i n, but I have t hi s packet t hat was - -
2 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , we' r e not j oi ni ng i n
3 t hose mot i ons.
4 Wi t h r egar d t o t he addi t i onal i ssue of hi s
5 pr et r i al br i ef ; Mot i on For Summar y J udgment f i l ed at
6 appr oxi mat el y 5: 14 t hi s mor ni ng, as I under st and i t ,
7 or at l east e- mai l ed at t hat t i me, what I woul d
8 suggest i s we pr oceed wi t h the Mot i on to Suppr ess.
9 Dependi ng on the out come, we may or may not have a
10 br i ef t r i al and some t est i mony and then t here may come
11 a poi nt wher e I ask l eave t o f i l e a post t r i al br i ef
12 i f I bel i eve any i ssues need t o be comment ed on i n
13 wr i t i ng t o suppor t maki ng a deci si on but I ' m not
14 j oi ni ng i n t he f ugi t i ve document .
15 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
16 So I am goi ng t o gr ant t he mot i on t o st r i ke
17 al l document s t hat wer e f i l ed sol el y by Mr . Coughl i n.
18 However , we do have t he Mot i on t o Suppress whi ch I
19 bel i eve was pr oper l y f i l ed - - i naudi bl e.
20 MR. YOUNG: Yes, your Honor , and I ' m pr epared
21 t o go f or war d wi t h t he Mot i on t o Suppr ess. The St at e
22 wi l l cal l Of f i cer Dur al de.
23 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I woul d ask t hat t he
24 r ul e of excl usi on appl y.
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1 THE COURT: Okay. I ' m goi ng t o ask t hat
2 anyone who i s a wi t ness i n t hi s case, i f you' l l wai t
3 out si de and not di scuss t he case among your sel ves
4 unt i l cal l ed by t he cour t t o t est i f y. So I t hi nk
5 t her e were t wo ot hers.
6 Al l r i ght . Woul d you pl ease come f or war d and
7 woul d you r ai se your r i ght hand?
8 ( The wi t ness was sworn. )
9 THE COURT: Pl ease be seat ed.
10 MR. YOUNG: And, your Honor , l i kewi se wi t hout
11 any di sr espect t o t he cour t , may I si t down dur i ng
12 t hese pr oceedi ngs?
13 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne.
14
15 NI CHOLAS DURALDE
16 EXAMI NATI ON
17 BY MR. YOUNG:
18 Q Sir, good morning. Could you state your
19 first and last name and spell both of them?
20 A Ni chol as Dur al de, f i r st name N I C H O L A S,
21 and l ast name i s D U R A L D E.
22 Q And, your Honor just to confirm, these
23 proceedings are still being recorded, yes?
24 THE COURT: Yes.
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 Q Okay.
2 And again, directing your attention to
3 August 20th of 2011 so last year, you stated you were
4 assigned as a patrol officer that day?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did something occur shortly before midnight
7 which brings you here to court?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Okay.
10 Could you tell the judge what that was,
11 please?
12 A I was di spat ched t o a cal l at t he - - I can' t
13 r emember what t he di spat ch l ocat i on was exact l y but i t
14 was t he Pl aza t hat ' s at 1st and Vi r gi ni a acr oss f r om
15 Ci t y Hal l on a r epor t of - - at f i r st , di spat ch sai d i t
16 was a di st ur bance I bel i eve, possi bl y a f i ght . Then
17 as we were on our way t her e, t hey updat ed us sayi ng
18 t hat i t was a l ar ceny t hat had occur r ed.
19 Q And this is -- the location you're referring
20 to, is that at or near 10 North Virginia Street or One
21 North Center Street in that general area?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Is that in Reno?
24 A Yes.
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 observat i on was - -
2 THE COURT: Let me hear - -
3 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne, your Honor .
4 THE COURT: Okay, t hen a mot i on - - i naudi bl e.
5 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
6 THE COURT: The t est i mony wi t h r espect t o t he
7 cl ot hi ng mat chi ng t he descr i pt i on anyway di spat ch.
8 BY MR. YOUNG:
9 Q Thank you.
10 Officer, did you write a report in this case?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And did you write this report soon after or
13 sometime after your involvement with this case?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Do you recall approximately how long?
16 A Depar t ment pol i cy r equi r es us t o wr i t e a
17 r epor t wi t hi n 48 hour s of when t he ar r est i s made.
18 Q So pretty soon after your involvement?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Okay. If I could approach, your Honor?
21 Showing you what appears to be your report;
22 is that correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And this is a four page -- it has some other
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 things but this is a four-page report; correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 I'm directing your attention to page 3, the
5 second paragraph. Don't answer out loud but just
6 review that report, sir, your report. Let me know if
7 that refreshes your recollection as to clothing and
8 descriptors as related to you by dispatch.
9 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor ? I ' l l addr ess i t
10 l at er , your Honor , never mi nd.
11 BY MR. YOUNG:
12 Q After reviewing that report, does it refresh
13 your recollection?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And I'll get this report back from you.
16 What was it that -- as far as particulars
17 regarding a potential suspect dispatch advised you of?
18 THE COURT: Bef ore you answer t hat , di d you
19 have an obj ect i on?
20 MR. LESLI E: I di dn' t have an obj ect i on. I
21 was l ooki ng at Mr . Coughl i n' s copy on hi s comput er of
22 t he pol i ce r epor t and by doi ng so, I was abl e t o f i nd
23 t he i nf or mat i on t hat I t hought I needed.
24 THE COURT: Okay.
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1 BY MR. YOUNG:
2 Q Okay. Go ahead, sir.
3 A The suspect descr i bed was descr i bed as a
4 whi t e mal e appr oxi mat el y 6 f oot 2, 210 pounds wear i ng
5 a r ed Chi cago hat , a mar oon or l i ght col or ed shi r t and
6 pl ai d shor t s.
7 Q Okay.
8 Now, fast forward to when you arrived on
9 scene, did you see an individual who matched this
10 description?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay, is the person who was consistent with
13 that description, is that person in the courtroom
14 today?
15 A Yes, he i s.
16 Q Would you point that person out to the judge?
17 THE COURT: The r ecor d wi l l r ef l ect t he
18 i dent i f i cat i on of t he def endant .
19 BY MR. YOUNG:
20 Q Okay.
21 Did you make verbal contact with Mr.
22 Coughlin, at that point?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And could you tell the court what happened?
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A The f i r st t hi ng t hat I r ecal l sayi ng t o Mr .
2 Coughl i n was t hat i f he had someone' s phone i f he gave
3 i t back t o t hem, t hat t he whol e i ssue woul d pr obabl y
4 be t aken car e of at t hat poi nt .
5 Q Do you recall what Mr. Coughlin's response
6 was, if anything?
7 A Mr . Coughl i n asked me i f t hi s was a Ter r y
8 st op and i f I had aut hor i t y t o do t hat .
9 Q So did he answer your question or inquiry
10 about whether he had a phone?
11 A No. He di d not .
12 Q Okay.
13 What was Mr. Coughlin's general demeanor or
14 level of cooperativeness with you during this
15 investigation?
16 A He was conf r ont at i onal .
17 Q Okay.
18 Did you advise Mr. Coughlin that you were
19 conducting an investigation into a possible theft of a
20 phone?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay.
23 At any time, did he relay to you or tell you
24 that he did in fact have somebody else's phone?
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 What happened at that point?
4 A Mr . Coughl i n, r ef er r i ng t o my t r ai ni ng and
5 exper i ence, when someone i s uncooperat i ve and
6 conf r ont at i onal when we' r e speaki ng wi t h t hem, t her e' s
7 a possi bi l i t y t hat t hei r ver bal uncooper at i veness
8 coul d t ur n i nt o a physi cal al t er cat i on or j ust
9 physi cal - -
10 MR. LESLI E: I ' m goi ng t o obj ect , l ack of
11 f oundat i on.
12 MR. YOUNG: He sai d based on hi s t r ai ni ng and
13 exper i ence. I t hi nk t hat ' s al l t he f oundat i on he
14 needs.
15 MR. LESLI E: That ' s a concl usory st at ement ,
16 i t ' s not t he el i ci t i ng of f oundat i onal t est i mony f r om
17 t he wi t ness. I don' t t hi nk a f oundat i on has been
18 l ai d.
19 THE COURT: Foundat i on, you mean
20 speci f i cal l y?
21 MR. LESLI E: Al l he sai d i s based on my
22 t r ai ni ng peopl e t hat don' t cooper at e or answer my
23 quest i ons coul d be danger ous. Ther e' s no f oundat i on
24 f or t hat concl usi on.
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 He sai d i t but t hat doesn' t mean t hat t her e' s
2 any f oundat i on f or t hat concl usi on.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , I wi l l sust ai n i t - - I mean
4 what speci f i c t r ai ni ng was i t - -
5 BY MR. YOUNG:
6 Q Sure. Sir, I'd ask you in addition to
7 answering what training you learned, if there's also
8 been prior instances in your experience where
9 noncooperation and confrontation on the front end has
10 turned into physical violence and/or use of weapons?
11 MR. LESLI E: I ' m goi ng t o obj ect r el evance.
12 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , Mr . Lesl i e want s t o know
13 f oundat i on, t hat cer t ai nl y goes t o f oundat i on.
14 MR. LESLI E: That ' s a di f f er ent quest i on.
15 THE COURT: As I underst and t he obj ect i on - -
16 I ' l l sust ai n t he second obj ect i on but I do t hi nk i t ' s
17 i r r el evant but as to t he f i r st obj ect i on, I t hi nk i f
18 t her e was some speci f i c t r ai ni ng he had t hat di d say
19 t hat , t hen I t hi nk t hat woul d be a pr oper f oundat i on.
20 BY MR. YOUNG:
21 Q Okay. Officer, if there is anything
22 specific?
23 A No speci f i c cl ass but i t woul d have been
24 t hr ough t he t i me I spent wi t h t he t r ai ni ng of f i cer
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1 wher e t hey have t o t ake someone who basi cal l y has gone
2 t hr ough l i f e want i ng t o t r ust peopl e and l ear ned i t
3 t eaches us how t o be more skept i cal t o keep us and
4 ot her s saf e.
5 Q Okay.
6 THE COURT: I wi l l al l ow t he t est i mony t hat
7 was pr evi ousl y obj ect ed t o.
8 MR. YOUNG: Thank you.
9 BY MR. YOUNG:
10 Q So in addition to saying you were saying
11 based on your training and experience, could you go
12 ahead and finish your previous testimony.
13 A Wel l , based on Mr . Coughl i n' s demeanor , he
14 was al so wear i ng cl ot hes whi ch were l oose enough t o
15 conceal a weapon. I compl et ed a pat - down search f or
16 weapons on Mr . Coughl i n.
17 Q Okay.
18 This was again just shy of midnight; correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Can you explain, in this specific location,
21 what the lighting was like?
22 A The l i ght i ng - - t her e' s a l ot of l i ght i ng
23 r i ght t her e. Ther e' s st r eet l i ght s.
24 Q Okay.
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1 And how many people were on scene when you
2 arrived ballpark?
3 A I ' d say bet ween 8 and 12.
4 Q Okay.
5 And that includes Mr. Coughlin?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And specifically, you were talking about what
8 dispatch advised. I may have missed it but why were
9 you responding out to this area for dispatch?
10 A At f i r st , t hey sai d i t was a di st ur bance,
11 possi bl y a f i ght and t hen gave us updat ed i nf or mat i on
12 t hat a l ar ceny had possi bl y occur r ed.
13 Q Okay.
14 And the first call that came in advised that
15 there was a possible fight?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Okay.
18 And then you stated that you did a pat-down
19 search, could you describe what that is specific to
20 Mr. Coughlin, how you conducted that?
21 A For a pat - down sear ch, we' r e basi cal l y
22 checki ng someone' s person t o make sur e t here' s no
23 weapons t hat are conceal ed i n t hei r cl ot hes. I don' t
24 r ecal l how exact l y I went t hr ough t he whol e sear ch,
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SUNSHI NE REPORTI NG - ( 775) 323- 3411
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1 but t hey t each us t o met hodi cal l y check over l appi ng
2 ar eas so you don' t mi ss anyt hi ng.
3 I r ecal l when I checked Mr . Coughl i n' s r i ght
4 si de, he had a phone i n hi s f r ont shor t s pocket .
5 MR. LESLI E: I ' m goi ng t o obj ect t o t he
6 t est i mony t hat he had a phone. I t hi nk t he of f i cer i s
7 dr awi ng an i mpr oper concl usi on.
8 THE COURT: Okay. I wi l l sust ai n t hat
9 obj ect i on. Maybe you can descr i be what you saw.
10 THE WI TNESS: I f el t an obj ect t hat I
11 bel i eved t o be a phone.
12 MR. LESLI E: I obj ect . He can descr i be what
13 he f el t but not hi s concl usi ons.
14 THE COURT: I wi l l sust ai n t he obj ect i on.
15 Agai n si r , you can descr i be t he shape of i t and
16 not hi ng el se - - i naudi bl e.
17 THE WI TNESS: I don' t r ecal l mi nut e det ai l
18 out si de of my concl usi on.
19 MR. YOUNG: Okay, t hat ' s okay.
20 THE WI TNESS: I can' t say t hat I di d.
21 BY MR. YOUNG:
22 Q Okay.
23 Do you recall why you were conducting that
24 pat-down, what if anything Mr. Coughlin said or
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1 yelled?
2 A As I was cont i nui ng wi t h t he pat - down and I
3 got t o Mr . Coughl i n' s l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket , he
4 began yel l i ng somet hi ng al ong t he l i nes of I was
5 i nappr opr i at el y t ouchi ng hi s peni s.
6 Q Okay.
7 Were you?
8 A No.
9 Q All right.
10 At this time up to the point that you've
11 testified now, at any time, did you reach your hands
12 into any pockets of Mr. Coughlin?
13 A No.
14 Q And I should ask this, did his shorts have
15 pockets?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And you were describing kind of a search for
18 weapons?
19 A Yes.
20 Q You're familiar with the search incident to
21 arrest?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Which is a thorough search?
24 A Yes.
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1 Q Your pat-down search as you described it, how
2 intrusive is that as compared as to a search incident
3 to arrest?
4 A I n a sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est , we woul d put
5 our hands i n someone' s pocket s, t ake al l t he i t ems
6 out . Basi cal l y, we' r e l ooki ng f or any cont r aband or
7 i l l egal i t ems down t o - - i n t he past , I ' ve had
8 sear ches where I l ocat ed a gr ai n of met hamphet ami ne
9 t hat wei ghed one hundredt h of a gr am.
10 Q Okay.
11 And that's what you're talking about in a
12 search incident to arrest?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What I'm curious then is how intrusive as
15 compared to that search was your pat-down search of
16 Mr. Coughlin?
17 A I woul d say not i nt r usi ve.
18 Q And why? Could you explain exactly what it
19 is. I know you said you're searching for weapons but
20 what are you specifically doing?
21 A We t ouch t he out si de of t he cl ot hi ng.
22 Q Okay.
23 During this search, did you feel any weapons?
24 A No.
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1 Q Okay.
2 So did you reach into Mr. Coughlin's pockets
3 at any time at this point?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay.
6 What happened after your pat-down search?
7 A Mr . Coughl i n began t o yel l t hat I was
8 i nappr opr i atel y t ouchi ng hi m. As he was becomi ng more
9 uncooper at i ve, I pl aced hi m i nt o handcuf f s.
10 Q And then what happened?
11 A From t her e, ot her of f i cer s had ar r i ved. Mr .
12 Coughl i n was l ef t wi t h - - when I get t o hi s l ef t f r ont
13 pocket , I st epped back. I f el t an obj ect
14 appr oxi mat el y f our i nches l ong, t hr ee i nches wi de and
15 pr obabl y about a hal f i nch t hi ck that was consi st ent
16 wi t h a phone.
17 Q Okay.
18 And that was when you got to his left front
19 pocket of his shorts?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 Go on.
23 A So t hen Mr . Coughl i n was l ef t wi t h t he ot her
24 of f i cers who wer e on scene. I made cont act wi t h t he
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1 vi ct i m.
2 Q Do you recall the victim's name?
3 A I r ecal l hi s l ast name.
4 Q What was that?
5 A Zarat e.
6 Q Okay.
7 A I asked hi m what occur r ed. I n summar y, he
8 t ol d me t hat hi s phone had been taken.
9 MR. LESLI E: Obj ect i on, hear say.
10 MR. YOUNG: I t ' s not hear say because i t goes
11 t o t he ef f ect wi t h r espect t o t hi s mot i on t o suppr ess.
12 THE COURT: I ' l l over r ul e t hi s obj ect i on,
13 i t ' s not admi t t ed f or t he pur poses of t he t r ut h of t he
14 mat t er .
15 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , I woul d al so
16 obj ect based on r el evance. We' r e at t acki ng t he
17 pat - down. Thi s i s not ger mane t o t he pat - down. Thi s
18 i s i nvest i gat i on so i t ' s not r el evant .
19 THE COURT: So you' r e obj ect i ng t hat t here
20 was a pat - down?
21 MR. LESLI E: We' r e at t acki ng, i n our Mot i on
22 t o Suppr ess, t he val i di t y of t he pat - down sear ch.
23 Thi s t est i mony now about hi s di scussi ons wi t h
24 wi t nesses i s par t of hi s br oader i nvest i gat i on whi ch
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1 i s not r el evant t o whet her or not he was j ust i f i ed i n
2 pat t i ng down Mr . Coughl i n at an ear l i er st age.
3 THE COURT: Wel l , I agr ee wi t h t hat . So a
4 pat - down - - i naudi bl e, i f I under st and t hi s cor r ect l y.
5 MR. LESLI E: I ' ve st at ed my obj ect i on.
6 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor t he mot i on t o suppress
7 al so at t acks t he pl ai n f i el d doct r i ne t al ki ng about
8 t hi s r eachi ng i nt o t he phone. Thi s goes di r ect l y t o
9 t hat par t of t he mot i on t o suppr ess.
10 THE COURT: Reachi ng i n f or t he phone, I mean
11 i t wasn' t par t of t he pat - down, wasn' t i t ?
12 MR. YOUNG: Wel l , t hat ' s what I ' m at t empt i ng
13 t o show t o the cour t t hr ough t est i mony.
14 THE COURT: I ' m goi ng t o over r ul e t he
15 obj ect i on because I ' m not cl ear I under st and t he f act s
16 of t hi s case.
17 MR. YOUNG: Sur e.
18 BY MR. YOUNG:
19 Q You mentioned, sir, that you recall the
20 victim's last name, I should say alleged victim at
21 this juncture, the alleged victim's last name as
22 Zarate; correct?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Okay.
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1 You put in your report a different name for
2 the victim. Are you -- I just want to make sure that
3 the record is clear as far as who the alleged victim
4 is at this point. Do you recall, as you sit here
5 right now, the actual full first and last name of the
6 alleged victim?
7 A No.
8 Q Okay. If I could approach, your Honor,
9 again.
10 And again, let me show you again this is Page
11 4 of the same report you were referring earlier to.
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay, does reviewing this report help refresh
14 your recollection?
15 A Yes.
16 Q There were actually two individuals that you
17 spoke with, yes?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 Again, at this juncture, the alleged victim,
21 who was that?
22 A Cory Gobl e.
23 Q Okay.
24 And there was another individual you spoke
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1 with, who was that?
2 A Hi s l ast name was Zarat e.
3 Q Okay.
4 When speaking with Mr. Goble, what was it
5 that Mr. Goble advised you?
6 A He advi sed me t hat hi s phone had been t aken.
7 A f r i end had seen i t be t aken and poi nt ed t he per son
8 out who had t he phone t o hi m.
9 Q All right.
10 A He had conf r ont ed t he subj ect t hat he
11 i dent i f i ed as Mr . Coughl i n and asked f or hi s phone
12 back. He was t ol d by Mr . Coughl i n t hat he di dn' t have
13 a phone. So he cal l ed t he phone and when he di al ed
14 hi s phone number , he saw t he phone scr een - -
15 MR. LESLI E: I agai n obj ect on hear say.
16 THE COURT: I t ' s over r ul ed agai n.
17 MR. LESLI E: I won' t keep doi ng i t ever y
18 t i me, but I j ust want t o be cl ear .
19 THE COURT: I t hi nk i t goes t o t he of f i cer ' s
20 P C possi bl y f or t he ar r est or what ever happened.
21 MR. YOUNG: Yes, si r .
22 MR. LESLI E: Why don' t I st at e i t t hi s way,
23 may I have a cont i nui ng obj ect i on i n t he Mot i on t o
24 Suppr ess t o t he of f i cer t est i f yi ng t o what wi t nesses
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1 t ol d hi m?
2 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne.
3 THE COURT: Absol ut el y.
4 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor , t hen I
5 don' t have t o i nt er r upt ever y t i me.
6 THE COURT: Maybe at some poi nt , t he
7 obj ect i on woul d be sust ai ned so t hat ' s my onl y concer n
8 but at t hi s poi nt , I ' m goi ng t o over r ul e t he obj ect i on
9 because I don' t bel i eve i t ' s of f er ed f or t he t r ut h of
10 t he t est i mony.
11 BY MR. YOUNG:
12 Q Officer, you were stating that Mr. Goble
13 advised you that from someone's phone, his number was
14 called and I believe where your testimony ended before
15 the objection was that he told you he saw a screen
16 light up; is that correct?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Did he tell you where he saw that screen
19 light up?
20 A He sai d he saw t he scr een l i ght up i n Mr .
21 Coughl i n' s l ef t shor t s pocket .
22 Q Okay.
23 At that point, as part of your investigation,
24 I'm not going to have you get into details but did you
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1 also speak with Mr. Zarate?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you obtain -- after speaking with Mr.
4 Goble, did you obtain Mr. Goble's cell phone number?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And did you then call that number?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay.
9 Could you tell the court what happened?
10 A I moved next t o Mr . Coughl i n. I di al ed Mr .
11 Gobl e' s cel l phone number . I coul d hear a vi br at i ng
12 noi se consi st ent wi t h a vi br at i ng cel l phone when i t ' s
13 cal l ed. I t hen pl aced t he back of my hand t o t he
14 out si de of Mr . Coughl i n' s l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket and
15 f el t pr esumabl y Mr . Gobl e' s phone t hat I was cal l i ng
16 vi br at i ng i n Mr . Coughl i n' s l ef t f r ont shor t s pocket .
17 Q Okay.
18 And did you ultimately terminate that call or
19 hang up that call?
20 A Yes.
21 Q And what happened with respect to the
22 vibration that you felt and heard?
23 A When I ended t he cal l f r om my phone, t he
24 vi br at i on st opped.
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1 Q Okay.
2 And were you able to feel that?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Were you likewise able to hear that?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 And at that point, what did you do?
8 A At t hat poi nt , I f el t t hat I had pr obabl e
9 cause t o t hat Mr . Coughl i n was i n possessi on of Mr .
10 Gobl e' s phone and Mr . Coughl i n was pl aced i n handcuf f s
11 and sear ched i nci dent t o ar r est .
12 Q Well, I mean you placed him in handcuffs, did
13 you arrest Mr. Coughlin at that time?
14 A He was al r eady i n handcuf f s at t hat t i me. He
15 was ar r est ed.
16 Q Okay. I guess that was a better question.
17 So you arrested him at that point?
18 A Yes.
19 Q At what point was he placed in handcuffs?
20 A He was pl aced i n handcuf f s shor t l y af t er he
21 st ar t ed t o yel l t hat I was i nappr opr i at el y t ouchi ng
22 hi m.
23 Q Okay.
24 Now, by -- at the point that you placed Mr.
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1 Coughlin under arrest as you just testified to --
2 A Yes.
3 Q At any time, had you actually put your hands
4 inside Mr. Coughlin's pockets?
5 A No.
6 Q At that point, did you?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And why?
9 A To r et r i eve t he phone al ong wi t h compl et i ng
10 t he sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est .
11 Q As per protocol as you already testified to?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Court's indulgence, your Honor.
14 At any time prior to what you just testified
15 to of doing the search incident to arrest in reaching
16 in and removing this phone from the left front shorts
17 pocket, at any other time, I just want to be clear,
18 did your hands enter Mr. Coughlin's pockets?
19 A No.
20 Q Okay.
21 This phone that you recovered from the left
22 front shorts pocket, did you confirm whether or not
23 that was Mr. Goble's phone?
24 A Yes.
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1 Q And how did you do that?
2 A I r ecal l Mr . Gobl e descr i bi ng - -
3 MR. LESLI E: I ' m goi ng t o obj ect agai n
4 because t he cour t i ndi cat ed t hat some obj ect i ons may
5 be val i d. At t hi s poi nt , t he t est i mony i s t hat t he
6 def endant has been pl aced under ar r est and searched
7 i nci dent t o ar r est . I obj ect t o any f ur t her hear say
8 t est i mony.
9 MR. YOUNG: That ' s f i ne.
10 THE COURT: I wi l l sust ai n t hat obj ect i on.
11 MR. YOUNG: Thank you. Cour t ' s i ndul gence,
12 your Honor .
13 BY MR. YOUNG:
14 Q Just a final question, officer.
15 When you stated that when you were dialing
16 Mr. Goble's numbers someone provided to you and you
17 said that you touched Mr. Coughlin in the left front
18 shorts pocket area; do you recall that testimony?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Could you describe how it was that you
21 touched him?
22 A I t was wi t h t he back of my hand agai nst t he
23 out si de of hi s shor t s.
24 Q Okay.
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1 I have no further questions, your Honor.
2 Thank you, officer.
3 THE COURT: Okay. How l ong i s your cr oss?
4 The probl em i s normal l y we t ake a break r i ght now.
5 MR. LESLI E: You know, I ant i ci pat e t hat I
6 woul d not i nvade t he l unch hour by ver y much.
7 THE COURT: Wel l , you can' t i nvade t he l unch
8 hour at al l because I have a pr i or appoi nt ment . The
9 quest i on i s do you want t o go f or f i ve mi nut es and
10 t hen st op?
11 MR. LESLI E: I ' d l i ke t o go as f ar as we can
12 bef ore we br eak.
13 THE COURT: Okay. Go ahead.
14 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
15 BY MR. LESLI E:
16 Q Officer, you originally -- dispatch
17 originally informed you that there was a disturbance
18 or possible fight; is that correct?
19 A Yes.
20 Q But then after that, you were updated by
21 dispatch with the information that it was a larceny?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Okay.
24 Generally speaking, a report over dispatch of
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1 a larceny does not always mean that violence or threat
2 is involved; is that correct?
3 A That coul d be t he case, yes.
4 Q So then you arrived and you saw what appeared
5 to be a large group of people somewhere between 8 to
6 12 people?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And most of them were young or mid-teen in
9 age?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And they were grouped around the man you
12 identified as Mr. Coughlin?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And Mr. Coughlin was seated on the ground?
15 A He was seated on - - al ong t he Cent er St r eet
16 Br i dge over t he Tr uckee Ri ver , t her e ar e r ai l s t hat
17 ar e about a f oot and a hal f , t wo f eet hi gh. He was
18 si t t i ng on one of t he r ai l s.
19 Q And how close to him was the group of youths?
20 A Si t t i ng next t o hi m. Some wer e si t t i ng next
21 t o hi m on t he r ai l . Ot her s wer e st andi ng i n a hal f
22 ci r cl e on t he si dewal k.
23 Q They were standing in a half circle around
24 him?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q So he was surrounded by approximately 8 to 12
3 mid-teen or young adults?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And when you arrived there, was yelling going
6 on?
7 A I don' t r ecal l .
8 Q Did the youths appear agitated?
9 In fact, at one point, you had to tell them
10 to back off, didn't you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q They were upset?
13 A Yes.
14 Q At the man you identified as Mr. Coughlin?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And they were surrounding him?
17 A Yes.
18 Q And he was in a seated position and many of
19 them were in a standing position?
20 A I r ecal l mor e bei ng seat ed near hi m t han wer e
21 st andi ng but t here were some subj ect s st andi ng, yes.
22 Q All right.
23 And how close in proximity were these youths
24 or young adults to Mr. Coughlin; how many feet from
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1 him, how many inches?
2 A The subj ect s t hat wer e si t t i ng next t o hi m
3 were I woul dn' t say more than si x t o 10 i nches away
4 f r om hi m. They wer e si t t i ng r i ght next t o hi m.
5 Q Are we going to break?
6 THE COURT: Yes.
7 So t hi s wi l l be cont i nued unt i l 1: 30 and
8 we' l l go t o appr oxi matel y 4: 30. Do you have any
9 pr obl em wi t h bei ng her e at 1: 30?
10 MR. YOUNG: No, si r .
11 ( A l unch r ecess was t aken. )
12 THE COURT: We wi l l cont i nue t hen.
13 Mr . Dur al de, i f you' l l j ust have a seat .
14 You' r e st i l l under oat h. Mr . Lesl i e?
15 MR. LESLI E: Thank you, your Honor .
16 CROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
17 ( Resumed)
18 BY MR. LESLI E:
19 Q And is it Officer Duralde or Duralde?
20 A Dur al de.
21 Q Okay. I apologize.
22 Officer, during the lunch break, did you have
23 any communication about the substance of the facts of
24 this case and your testimony with anyone?
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1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 And you did not do that with any witnesses?
4 A No.
5 Q And you did not do that with the D A?
6 A No.
7 Q Okay.
8 So I think when we broke for lunch, I
9 believed we had established that when you arrived on
10 scene, you saw the man that you have identified as Mr.
11 Coughlin sitting on a railing in a seated position
12 surrounded by several young people, some standing,
13 some sitting, some as close or six to 10 inches and
14 that they were visibly upset with him; is that a fair
15 summary of the setting as you arrived on scene?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And so as you arrived there, is it fair to
18 say that you concluded, upon seeing what you've
19 described, that whatever exchange had been going on
20 between the youths and Mr. Coughlin had been going on
21 for sometime prior to your arrival?
22 A Yes.
23 Q You don't know how long but for some period
24 before your arrival, this situation you've described
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1 had been going on?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Okay.
4 Of the 8 to 10 youths or young persons that
5 you've described, can you approximate how many were
6 male and how many were female?
7 A I woul d guess, f r om my r ecol l ect i on, t her e
8 wer e at l east t hr ee f emal es t her e, t hat ' s t he best
9 guess I can gi ve.
10 Q Okay.
11 And I did ask for an estimate. So the
12 remainder of the 8 to 12 individuals were male?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Mr. Coughlin -- when you first arrived and
15 saw this scene that we're talking about, Mr. Coughlin
16 was wearing shorts?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Not long pants; correct?
19 A Yes, cor r ect .
20 Q He had with him -- did he have with him any
21 animals?
22 A Yes, I r ecal l a dog.
23 Q A small dog?
24 A Yes.
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1 Q On a leash?
2 A I don' t r ecal l i f i t was on a l eash or not .
3 Q Was the dog displaying any viciousness
4 towards any of the individuals that were surrounding
5 Mr. Coughlin?
6 A Not t hat I r ecal l .
7 Q And Mr. Coughlin was wearing a shirt?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Was it a long-sleeve shirt or short-sleeve?
10 A I don' t r ecal l .
11 Q Was it a collared shirt or more of a T-shirt
12 style shirt?
13 A T- shi r t .
14 Q Okay.
15 Pockets on the shirt?
16 A I don' t r ecal l .
17 Q Did Mr. Coughlin visibly have in his hands
18 any kind of weapon?
19 A No.
20 Q Did he visibly have in his hands any item or
21 article which you believed could be used as a weapon?
22 A The onl y i t em I r emember t hat Mr . Coughl i n
23 had was a bi ke whi ch coul d be used as a weapon but
24 t hat ' s a st r et ch.
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1 Q And can we agree that that would be a stretch
2 in this case? You don't seriously testify here today
3 that that bike was being used as a weapon?
4 A No.
5 Q And you didn't -- back at the time of your
6 contact with him on the night in question, you did not
7 really think that you were at risk of being attacked
8 by the bicycle?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay.
11 So excluding the bicycle then, he did not
12 have visibly in his possession, as you arrived on
13 scene, any article or weapon that could be used
14 against you?
15 A No.
16 Q If I heard you correctly on your direct
17 testimony, you testified that there were a number of
18 streetlights in the area?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And so the lighting was reasonably good?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Okay.
23 When you first had contact with Mr. Coughlin,
24 can you point to any specific facts, not just your
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1 experience, but specific facts about the scene there
2 when you first had contact with him that made you
3 think that he was going to flea?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay.
6 And in fact, if he had fled and if he wanted
7 to retain his bicycle and his dog, he would have fled
8 with them presumably?
9 A I have no i dea.
10 Q I guess the point I'm trying to make is he
11 had with him a dog and a bicycle, when you first had
12 contact with him?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay.
15 Now, you've been trained in temporary
16 detention of individuals?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Would it be fair to say that once you put
19 your hands on a citizen, when you as an officer put
20 your hands on a citizen to conduct a pat-down, you are
21 detaining them?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Now, that evening as you had contact with Mr.
24 Coughlin, you were in uniform?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And did you have a weapons belt?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And you had a sidearm on your weapon belt?
5 A Yes.
6 Q And was that in plain view?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And did you arrive in a police car?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And was that police car parked within visible
11 distance from where Mr. Coughlin was, when he was
12 sitting on the rail with the youths?
13 A Yes.
14 Q And during your contact with Mr. Coughlin,
15 did additional officers arrive?
16 A Yes.
17 Q And were you the first on-site?
18 A Yes.
19 Q And then how many additional officers
20 arrived?
21 A Two.
22 Q Did they arrive by separate vehicle?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And did they arrive in the same vehicle or
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1 two additional vehicles?
2 A Two addi t i onal vehi cl es.
3 Q And had all three officers with all three
4 police vehicles arrived, as of the time that you
5 patted Mr. Coughlin down?
6 A I onl y r ecal l one ot her of f i cer bei ng t her e
7 at t he t i me t hat I conduct ed t he pat - down.
8 Q So there were at least two officers and two
9 police cars on scene at the time you patted him down?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And he was certainly, in your mind, detained
12 at that point?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Was he, in your mind, detained prior to you
15 actually patting him for weapons?
16 A I f he had t r i ed t o l eave, I woul d say he
17 wasn' t f r ee t o.
18 Q Okay.
19 Now, if I heard you correctly and I want to
20 go through this. From the direct examination, I
21 understood that the basis or the reason for the
22 pat-down was a few things. He had on loose clothing;
23 is that correct?
24 A Yes.
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1 Q His demeanor?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And his lack of cooperation in answering some
4 questions?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 His demeanor -- by demeanor, you mean that he
8 was uncooperative and I think you used the word
9 "confrontational?"
10 A Yes.
11 Q Was he annoying you?
12 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' d l i ke t he r ecor d
13 t o r ef l ect i t ' s been pr obabl y a mi nut e si nce I asked
14 t he quest i on of whet her Mr . Coughl i n was annoyi ng.
15 The of f i cer hasn' t answer ed.
16 THE COURT: I wi l l st i l l al l ow hi m because
17 t her e was a di st r act i on i n t he cour t r oom dur i ng t hat
18 t i me.
19 THE WI TNESS: I apol ogi ze, your Honor .
20 BY MR. LESLI E:
21 Q And officer, I'm not asking you to think as
22 much as I'm asking do you recall whether or not he was
23 annoying?
24 A Annoyi ng i s not t he wor d t hat I woul d use
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1 commonl y.
2 Q What word would you use?
3 A I r ecal l bei ng f r ust r at ed.
4 Q And maybe that's a better way of putting it.
5 THE COURT: Wai t , wai t , who was f r ust r at ed,
6 you?
7 THE WI TNESS: I was f r ust r ated.
8 THE COURT: Okay.
9 BY MR. LESLI E:
10 Q Maybe that's a better way to ask instead of
11 asking you to characterize him.
12 Let's talk about your feelings about the
13 encounter, what was frustrating?
14 A When I woul d ask - -
15 MR. YOUNG: You honor , I ' m goi ng t o obj ect as
16 f ar as r el evance. I ' m not sur e whet her or not Of f i cer
17 Dur al de i s f r ust r at ed or what hi s f eel i ngs ar e have
18 any bear i ng on t he r easonabl eness of t he pat - down
19 whi ch i s at i ssue her e. The st op i t sel f i s not
20 chal l enged by t he def ense, i t ' s si mpl y t he pat - down of
21 t he subsequent sear ch. So I ' m not sur e how t hat has
22 any bear i ng.
23 THE COURT: Wel l , I t hi nk t he of f i cer ' s
24 per cept i on t hat l ed t o t he pat - down i s cl ear l y
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1 r el evant . I mean, i f he di dn' t t hi nk t her e was any
2 possi bi l i t y t hat he had weapons, t hen t he pat - down was
3 not l egi t i mat e but on t he ot her hand, i f he had r eason
4 t o bel i eve he di d, t hen t her e was.
5 MR. YOUNG: Sur e but t he emot i on of
6 f r ust r at i on doesn' t go t o t hat at al l .
7 THE COURT: I t hi nk you are cor r ect about
8 f r ustr at i on, but I s t i l l t hi nk he has r i ght t o i nqui r e
9 as t o t he of f i cer ' s f r ame of mi nd at t hat t i me. So I
10 wi l l over r ul e t he obj ect i on.
11 MR. YOUNG: Okay. I t hought t he quest i on was
12 why you wer e f r ust r at ed, t hat ' s what I was obj ect i ng
13 t o.
14 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk i t ' s per f ectl y r el evant .
15 He' s t est i f i ed he was f r ust r at ed.
16 THE COURT: I under st and but I st i l l am goi ng
17 t o over r ul e t he obj ect i on. Go ahead.
18 BY MR. LESLI E:
19 Q Why were you frustrated?
20 A Mr . Coughl i n was answer i ng my quest i ons wi t h
21 quest i ons.
22 Q Any other reasons?
23 A No.
24 Q And this frustration, on your part, arose
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1 before you conducted the pat-down?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Court's indulgence.
4 At one point, do you recall saying that you
5 were busy or that it was a busy night? In your
6 exchange with Mr. Coughlin, you said something to the
7 effect of, "We're busy, answer the question." Do you
8 recall that?
9 A I don' t r ecal l t hat .
10 Q Do you dispute that?
11 A I don' t r ecal l .
12 Q Were you busy that night?
13 A I don' t r ecal l .
14 Q With regard to once you put your hands on Mr.
15 Coughlin, I heard you say on direct testimony that you
16 felt no weapons; is that an accurate statement?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Now, at some point during the encounter, you
19 indicated that you spoke to two other individuals
20 named Mr. Goble and Mr. Zarate?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And is that after the initial pat-down?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Why did you ask them for their input?
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1 A Because I ' m not sur e who cal l ed, but Mr .
2 Gobl e was i dent i f i ed t o me as t he vi ct i m.
3 Q And do you recall that one of those two
4 gentlemen told you that Mr. Coughlin had allegedly
5 taken the phone but one -- but that the other
6 gentleman told you that some other third party had
7 taken the phone and threatened or said that he was
8 going to throw it in the river?
9 A I don' t r ecal l t hat .
10 Q Do you recall that from your investigation in
11 this case?
12 A No.
13 Q Other than what you've testified to here
14 today, back at the time did you have any reason to
15 believe that Mr. Coughlin was actually armed with a
16 dangerous weapon?
17 A No.
18 Q Other than what you've testified to here
19 today, back at the time of the contact, did you have
20 any other reason to believe that he was a threat to
21 the safety of you as an officer or any other officer,
22 up to and including the time that you patted him down
23 for weapons?
24 A No.
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1 Q During your encounter with Mr. Coughlin at
2 the initial stages, did he in fact identify himself by
3 name? In fact, at one point, he even gave his Bar
4 number?
5 A I r ecal l hi m sayi ng he was a l awyer and
6 gi vi ng hi s Bar number .
7 Q Okay.
8 And was that before or after the time that
9 you patted him down for weapons?
10 A I coul dn' t say f or sur e but I bel i eve i t was
11 bef or e.
12 Q Okay.
13 That would be your best recollection?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Nothing further.
16 MR. YOUNG: I have a f ew quest i ons, your
17 Honor .
18 THE COURT: Yes.
19 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
20 BY MR. YOUNG:
21 Q Mr. Leslie asked you or do you recall Mr.
22 Leslie asking you that once dispatch advised of an
23 update that it was a potential larceny, he asked
24 something along the lines of would that alleviate any
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1 concern for threats or violence or weapons? I know
2 I'm misstating his exact words but something along
3 those lines; do you recall that question?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And do you recall your response was and I
6 wrote this down quote-unquote "could be." Do you
7 recall that response?
8 A I don' t r ecal l t he r esponse exact l y.
9 Q Okay.
10 A Many t i mes we' l l get i nf or mat i on f r om
11 di spat ch t hat ' s i naccur at e or mi xed. As pol i ce
12 of f i cer s, we have t o keep our guard up or what ever
13 l i ke.
14 Q Okay.
15 And in this case, you had been receiving --
16 the larceny was an additional information that you
17 received from the first report?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Okay.
20 This group of I'll call them youths because
21 that's what Mr. Leslie uses and I think that's
22 accurate, you testified that they were more or less
23 surrounding Mr. Coughlin and at some point at least
24 some of them appeared to be agitated?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And that -- were they pointing out to the
3 defendant and saying he was the subject of the call or
4 how did you determine that -- to focus your inquiry on
5 Mr. Coughlin?
6 A At f i r st , I not i ced hi s cl ot hi ng mat ched t he
7 descr i pt i on gi ven ear l i er by di spat ch. I r ecal l
8 someone poi nt i ng hi m out al so.
9 Q Okay.
10 Can you estimate -- and I know it was
11 sometime ago but can you estimate how much time passed
12 from the point that you arrived on scene until the
13 point you did the pat-down?
14 A I woul d say appr oxi mat el y t wo mi nut es.
15 Q Okay.
16 And had you had -- you hadn't had any prior
17 dealings with any of the individuals on scene before,
18 had you?
19 A No.
20 Q And you testified that you were in police
21 uniform?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did that consist of either badge or the words
24 "Police" written out in some fashion?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And you testified you had your weapon belt,
3 firearm, in plain view, yes?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Arrived in a police car?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And was that a marked police car?
8 A Yes, i t was.
9 Q Okay.
10 That's all, your Honor.
11 THE COURT: Any r ecr oss?
12 MR. LESLI E: J ust a coupl e of qui ck ones i f I
13 may.
14 RECROSS- EXAMI NATI ON
15 BY MR. LESLI E:
16 Q Do you recall that at one point early in the
17 exchange between yourself and Mr. Coughlin, he asked
18 to be able to tie the dog or leash the dog somehow so
19 it wouldn't get away?
20 A I don' t r ecal l t hat .
21 Q Do you recall anything about him expressing
22 some kind of concern that he didn't want the dog to go
23 away?
24 A Not t hat I r ecal l .
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1 Q But the dog was there with him?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Court's indulgence?
4 THE COURT: Yes.
5 MR. LESLI E: I di d have a f ol l ow- up quest i on
6 on t he i ssue of t he cl ot hi ng t hat was j ust asked by
7 t he pr osecut or and mysel f .
8 You i ndi cat ed Mr . Coughl i n had shor t s?
9 A Yes.
10 Q And those shorts had pockets?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And those shorts were not, you know, the
13 baggie style -- there's baggie style cargo pockets and
14 then there's more of a regular pocket and this was
15 what type?
16 A I r ecal l t hem bei ng nor mal shor t s.
17 Q Okay.
18 So what that means is and I just want to nail
19 down our terms here to make sure we're communicating
20 with each other. They were not cargo pockets, right?
21 A I don' t r ecal l car go pocket s, t hat ' s cor r ect .
22 Q Okay.
23 And by cargo pockets, what I mean as pocket
24 that actually puffs out from the surface of the pant
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1 or short and that's not the kind of pocket that we
2 have here; is that correct?
3 A That ' s cor r ect .
4 Q These were the kind where you -- I guess
5 maybe for demonstrative purposes, the pants I'm
6 wearing do not have cargo pants on the pants, do they?
7 A No, t hey don' t .
8 Q They have the kind where it's just a slit and
9 then the bag of the pant or the bag of the pocket
10 itself is on the inside of the pant leg?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Okay.
13 And that's the kind of pocket that Mr.
14 Coughlin had on his shorts that time?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay. Thank you. May I just have a moment
17 more?
18 The alleged offense of allegedly taking the
19 phone in question was not committed within your
20 presence, was it?
21 A No.
22 Q You were not a direct witness to that?
23 A No.
24 Q Okay.
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1 And the hour of the day that you arrived on
2 scene again was what, approximately?
3 A I r ecal l i t bei ng bet ween - - anywher e bet ween
4 11: 00 and 12: 00 P. M. at ni ght .
5 Q Okay.
6 So certainly after the hour of 7:00 P.M.?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Very well.
9 Thank you, your Honor. I have no further
10 questions.
11 MR. YOUNG: I do have t wo, your Honor .
12 REDI RECT EXAMI NATI ON
13 BY MR. YOUNG:
14 Q The baggie clothes or well, the loose
15 fitting, I can't remember the exact words but the
16 shorts?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Were they such that a weapon could be
19 concealed?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Okay.
22 They weren't so skin tight that you could
23 take a look and obviously know there's nothing in the
24 pockets?
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1 A No.
2 Q Okay.
3 MR. LESLI E: I have a f ol l ow up t o t hat .
4 MR. YOUNG: I have one mor e quest i on.
5 MR. LESLI E: Oh, I ' m sor r y.
6 BY MR. YOUNG:
7 Q Mr. Leslie was just asking you the alleged
8 taking of the phone was not done in your presence; do
9 you recall that question just a couple of questions
10 ago and you said "No?"
11 A Yes.
12 Q Mr. Did Mr. Coughlin hand you, on his own
13 volition, the phone that was taken from his left front
14 shorts pocket?
15 A No.
16 Q You took that from his pocket after you
17 arrested him and were conducting a search incident to
18 arrest?
19 A Yes.
20 Q So while you were present, he was still in
21 possession of this phone in his left front pocket?
22 A Yes.
23 MR. LESLI E: Obj ect i on.
24 THE COURT: Obj ect i on t o what ?
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1 MR. LESLI E: An i mpr oper concl usi on.
2 THE COURT: What ' s t he obj ect i on t o t he
3 quest i on?
4 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , he r an t he wi t ness t hr ough
5 a ser i es of quest i ons and t hen asked t he wor ds at t he
6 end so and asked t he wi t ness t o concl ude and I t hi nk
7 t hat was an i mpr oper concl usi on under t he
8 ci r cumst ances.
9 MR. YOUNG: I ' m not aski ng anythi ng wi t h
10 r espect t o t he st ol en nat ur e. I ' m j ust aski ng i f - -
11 al l I ' m aski ng i s whi l e Of f i cer Dur al de was on scene
12 deal i ng di r ect l y wi t h Mr . Coughl i n, was t hi s phone
13 t hat he ul t i mat el y r ecover ed f r om hi s pocket st i l l i n
14 Mr . Coughl i n' s pocket , t hat ' s al l I ' m aski ng?
15 MR. LESLI E: You sai d whi l e he was on scene,
16 t hat ' s aski ng f or a concl usi on as t o an i ndef i ni t e
17 dur at i on of t i me per i od and aski ng hi m t o concl ude
18 t hat Mr . Coughl i n had possessi on of somet hi ng t hat was
19 di sput ed.
20 THE COURT: Coul d you narr ow i t down?
21 MR. YOUNG: Maybe I coul d r ephrase t he
22 quest i on.
23 BY MR. YOUNG:
24 Q But from the point that you arrived on scene
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1 and made contact with Mr. Coughlin, did you see
2 anybody place that phone or Mr. Coughlin place that
3 phone into his pocket?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay.
6 And you've already testified that upon your
7 arrest of Mr. Coughlin, you removed a phone which is
8 the subject of this Suppression Hearing from his
9 pocket?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay, good enough?
12 THE COURT: That ' s f i ne.
13 MR. LESLI E: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.
14 MR. YOUNG: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.
15 THE COURT: You may st ep down. Do you have
16 any ot her wi t nesses?
17 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , f or t he Mot i on t o
18 Suppr ess, no, t he St at e has no f ur t her evi dence.
19 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
20 I s t her e any obj ect i on t o t he of f i cer
21 l eavi ng - -
22 MR. LESLI E: I ' d l i ke t o consul t wi t h my
23 cl i ent f or j ust a moment , your Honor .
24 THE COURT: Why don' t you have a seat unt i l
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1 we f i nd out .
2 MR. LESLI E: Your Honor , I ' ve t aken t he
3 oppor t uni t y over t he l ast f ew mi nut es, I apol ogi ze f or
4 t he del ay. I was consul t i ng wi t h Mr . Coughl i n. We
5 don' t have any wi t nesses, and he i s not el ect i ng t o
6 t est i f y at t he Suppr essi on Hear i ng at t hi s t i me.
7 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
8 Let ' s see, si nce i t ' s your mot i on, do you
9 wi sh t o go f i r st ?
10 MR. YOUNG: Your Honor , i n r esponse t o your
11 ear l i er quest i on, I cer t ai nl y have no pr obl em wi t h
12 Of f i cer Dur al de bei ng i n here dur i ng argument s but
13 I ' l l def er t o Mr . Lesl i e.
14 MR. LESLI E: You know, i t ' s not t est i moni al
15 i n nat ur e, i t i s ar gument . I honest l y can' t t hi nk of
16 a reason t o bar hi m but I don' t know why he needs t o
17 be pr esent so I ' l l def er t o t he cour t ' s best j udgment .
18 THE COURT: Al l r i ght .
19 Wel l , si nce t her e i s a r ul e of excl usi on i n
20 ef f ect , I wi l l ask hi m t o wai t out s i de unt i l t hi s i s
21 compl et e because t here may be some ar gument t hat i s
22 made i f I r ul e agai nst t he mot i on t hat coul d i mpact
23 your t est i mony at t r i al .
24 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , your Honor , I t hi nk t hat
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1 Mr . Goodni ght act ual l y di d a good j ob of set t i ng f or t h
2 t he appl i cabl e l aw and f r ami ng t he i ssues i n t he
3 wr i t t en Mot i on t o Suppr ess and t he f act s t hat wer e set
4 f or t h i n t her e. I know you deci de t he f act s based on
5 t he hear i ng her e. I t appear s t her e' s a pr et t y hi gh
6 degr ee of consi st ency bet ween what he wr ot e i n t he
7 mot i on and what we' ve heard t oday.
8 I f I may summar i ze, I t hi nk t he i mpor t ant
9 f act s ar e as f ol l ows: The of f i cer i s di spat ched t o
10 somet hi ng t hat by hi s t est i mony i ni t i al l y i s descr i bed
11 by di spat ch as a di st ur bance or possi bl e f i ght but
12 bef or e t he of f i cer ar r i ves, he' s updat ed by di spat ch
13 and i t ' s i ndi cat ed t hat i t ' s a l ar ceny. Now, I ' m not
14 ar gui ng some ki nd of suppl ant i ng of t he i nf or mat i on
15 but I am poi nt i ng t o t he f act t hat t hat cl ar i f i cat i on
16 changes i t f r om a f i ght i ssue t o a l ar ceny i ssue.
17 When t he of f i cer ar r i ves on scene, he sees
18 what he descr i bes as a l ar ge of gr oup of peopl e and
19 i t ' s t hese yout hs or young adul t s t hat we' ve t al ked
20 about and some mi d- t eens. I t hi nk we' ve descr i bed
21 t hem i n var i ous t er ms. They ar e si t t i ng i n cl ose
22 pr oxi mi t y to and st andi ng i n cl ose pr oxi mi t y t o and
23 accor di ng t o t he of f i cer , sur r oundi ng and emot i onal l y
24 agi t at ed or upset wi t h Mr . Coughl i n who i s i n a seat ed
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1 posi t i on and f r ankl y i s sur r ounded.
2 The of f i cer get s out of hi s vehi cl e, makes
3 some i ni t i al i nqui r y and at some poi nt wi t hi n l ess
4 t han t wo mi nut es of bei ng on scene, det ermi nes t hat
5 he' s goi ng t o pat - down Mr . Coughl i n. The of f i cer ,
6 however , t est i f i ed t hat i n t hat f i r st f ew mi nut es or
7 no more t han 10 mi nut es, he was abl e t o ascer t ai n
8 t hat Mr . Coughl i n had a l i t t l e dog wi t h hi m. He had a
9 bi cycl e t hat was not r eal i st i cal l y, i n t he of f i cer ' s
10 mi nd, any weapon, t hat Mr . Coughl i n was wear i ng shor t s
11 and a T- shi r t st yl ed shi r t , t hat t he of f i cer does not
12 bel i eve had pocket s. He di d not see any vi si bl e
13 i ndi cat i on t hat Mr . Coughl i n had a weapon of any ki nd
14 or a devi ce t hat coul d be used as a weapon t hat woul d
15 put t he of f i cer i n har m or t hr eat of har m.
16 The of f i cer t est i f i ed and I t ook car ef ul
17 not es on t hi s and I cr oss- exami ned hi m on t hi s. He
18 sai d t hat t he basi s of t he pat - down sear ch was because
19 Mr . Coughl i n was, i n hi s wor ds, not cooper at i ve by not
20 answer i ng some quest i ons and by aski ng a quest i on i n
21 r esponse t o t he of f i cer ' s quest i on. He t est i f i ed t hat
22 Mr . Coughl i n' s demeanor was par t of t he r eason he
23 pat t ed hi m down f or weapons.
24 We under st and, f r om t he of f i cer hi msel f , t hat
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1 by demeanor , what he' s r eal l y t al ki ng about i s t he
2 of f i cer became f r ust r at ed t hat Mr . Coughl i n was f i r i ng
3 back wi t h some r het or i cal quest i ons or wi t h - - t hat ' s
4 pr obabl y not a r i ght phr aseol ogy. He was aski ng i f
5 t he of f i cer had aut hor i t y t o ask t hose quest i ons and
6 because Mr . Coughl i n had l oose cl ot hes, t hat ' s i t .
7 We' ve ci t ed t he st at ut e and some case l aw i n
8 t he mot i on, i t says t hat an of f i cer , under 172. 1232,
9 can' t conduct such a search, cannot put hi s hands on a
10 ci t i zen and f eel t hei r body f or any pur pose ot her t han
11 he r easonabl y bel i eves t hat t wo t hi ngs are occur r i ng.
12 Number one, t hat Mr . Coughl i n was ar med wi t h a
13 dangerous weapon and number t wo, t hat Mr . Coughl i n i s
14 a t hr eat t o t he saf et y of t he of f i cer or anot her
15 of f i cer .
16 The of f i cer t est i f i ed t hat i n addi t i on t o
17 what he' s t est i f i ed her e t oday, t her e' s no ot her
18 evi dence t hat he had i n hi s mi nd back at t he t i me to
19 t hi nk Mr . Coughl i n ei t her had a dangerous weapon or
20 was some ki nd of t hr eat t o t he saf et y of t he of f i cer s.
21 Mr . Coughl i n coul dn' t have f l ed, and t he of f i cer
22 di dn' t t hi nk t hat he was a f l i ght r i sk.
23 Al l we have i n t hi s case i s r espondi ng t o an
24 of f i cer ' s quest i on wi t h a quest i on but r emember t hat
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1 t he cont ext of t hat i s t hat Mr . Coughl i n di d i dent i f y
2 hi msel f , i ndi cat ed he was a l awyer and t he of f i cer
3 bel i eves he di d i dent i f y hi msel f as a l awyer and
4 pr ovi de hi s Bar number .
5 The st at ut es i ndi cat e under NRS- 172. 123, t hat
6 "Any per son so det ai ned - - and t hi s i s under t he
7 det ent i on st at ut e, "shal l i dent i f y hi msel f or her sel f
8 but may not be compel l ed t o answer any ot her i nqui r y
9 of any peace of f i cer . " So l egal l y, Mr . Coughl i n was
10 f ul l y j ust i f i ed i n not answer i ng any quest i ons ot her
11 t han i dent i f yi ng hi msel f whi ch I bel i eve we hear d he
12 di d.
13 The of f i cer al so t est i f i ed t hat t her e was
14 good r easonabl e l i ght i ng. The of f i cer t est i f i ed t hat
15 hi s f r ust r at i on wi t h Mr . Coughl i n ar ose bef or e he
16 conduct ed t he pat - down and I suggest t o you t hat t hat
17 i s r el evant t o t he det er mi nat i on of whet her a ver y
18 vague, nonspeci f i c i n ar t i cul abl e and I use t he f act s
19 l oosel y, t hat t he of f i cer r el i es on f or t he pat - down
20 wi t h not si mpl y a r use.
21 The of f i cer was out t her e at 11: 00 or cl ose
22 t o 12: 00 mi dni ght . He' s been cal l ed out . He sees a
23 bunch of peopl e sur r oundi ng Mr . Coughl i n. Ther e' s
24 some ki nd of di sput e about a smal l per sonal i t em. Mr .
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1 Coughl i n i dent i f i es hi msel f but r ef uses t o answer
2 f ur t her quest i ons i n f ul l j ust i f i cat i on under
3 NRS- 171. 123 and t he of f i cer got mad.
4 THE COURT: Your br i ef i ndi cat es not t hat t he
5 of f i cer s asked hi m any mor e quest i ons but t ol d hi m,
6 " J ust don' t t al k anymor e, " j ust t he opposi t e of what
7 you' r e i ndi cat i ng t oday.
8 MR. LESLI E: I t hi nk t hat t he f act ual basi s
9 of t he mot i on - - you f i l e a Mot i on t o Suppr ess based
10 on t he f act s as you underst and t hem f r om any number of
11 sour ces but as you i ndi cat ed on Monday, t hese mot i ons
12 have t o be deci ded af t er you hear f r om wi t nesses t o
13 ver i f y what f act s ar e we deal i ng wi t h.
14 I t hi nk t he f act s t hat we' ve hear d her e t oday
15 f r om t he of f i cer hi msel f and not f r om Mr . Goodni ght ' s
16 i nt er pr et at i on of f act s or wr i t i ng and mot i on. The
17 of f i cer hi msel f t est i f i ed, " I got f r ust r at ed wi t h hi m
18 and i t was bef or e I di d t he pat - down. "
19 THE COURT: Wel l , I under st and he answer ed a
20 quest i on wi t h a quest i on but he di dn' t f or ce hi m t o
21 answer a quest i on. I mean, you had i ndi cat ed ear l i er
22 t hat under t he l aw, he' s onl y r equi r ed t o gi ve hi s
23 name.
24 MR. LESLI E: Ri ght .
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1 THE COURT: Li mi t ed i nf ormat i on and he di d
2 not gi ve any ot her i nf or mat i on.
3 MR. LESLI E: And par t of my poi nt t her e i s
4 t he of f i cer conf i r med t hat par t of t he behavi or of t he
5 def endant t hat l ed t he of f i cer t o conduct t he pat - down
6 f or weapons was t hat Mr . Coughl i n answered a quest i on
7 wi t h a quest i on and woul dn' t answer anot her quest i on.
8 My poi nt i s i f NRS- 171. 123 Subsect i on 3 says
9 t hat a det ai ned per son i s obl i gat ed t o i dent i f y
10 hi msel f but i s not obl i gat ed t o answer any f ur t her
11 quest i ons, how can t he of f i cer j ust i f y a pat - down
12 sear ch when t he subj ect of t hat sear ch i s wel l wi t hi n
13 t hei r l egal r i ght s under t he st at ut e.
14 So under t he st at ut e whi ch codi f i es basi cal l y
15 t he Ter r y doct r i ne - -
16 THE COURT: Wel l , f r om t he Ter r y, you' r e
17 t al ki ng about speci f i c ar t i cul abl e f act s t hat he has a
18 weapon. Ter r y t al ks about speci f i c ar t i cul abl e f act s
19 whi ch t aken t oget her l ead t he of f i cer r easonabl y t o
20 concl ude t hat cr i mi nal act i vi t y occur r ed - -
21 MR. LESLI E: Wel l , what I ' m t al ki ng about
22 t hough i s t he pat - down.
23 THE COURT: Wel l , I under st and but you' r e
24 sayi ng Ter r y speci f i cal l y says t hey have to have
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1 speci f i c ar t i cul abl e f act s whi ch t aken t oget her , l ead
2 t he of f i cer t o r easonabl y concl ude t hat he has
3 weapons?
4 MR. LESLI E: Yes and i f you l ook at 171. 1232,
5 t he of f i cer has t o r easonabl y bel i eve t hat he' s ar med
6 wi t h a danger ous weapon and poses a t hreat .
7 THE COURT: That I underst and, I was goi ng
8 of f Ter r y, Terr y i t sel f .
9 MR. LESLI E: Coul d you r est at e your quest i on,
10 I want t o make sure I under st and t he cour t ?
11 THE COURT: The excer pt at page 4 whi ch i s
12 act ual l y f r om St ewar t V St at e, on t he t op of page 4,
13 l i ne 6 t al ks about ar t i cul abl e f act s whi ch t aken
14 t oget her wi t h r at i onal i nf er ences f r om t hose f act s
15 l ead t he of f i cer t o r easonabl y concl ude i n l i ght of
16 hi s exper i ence t hat cri mi nal act i vi t y - - i naudi bl e.
17 You i ndi cat ed t hat Ter r y al so r equi r es t o do
18 t he act ual f r i sk t hat he has t o have speci f i c
19 ar t i cul abl e f act s t hat he may have weapons. I
20 under st and t he st at ut e says t hat - -
21 MR. LESLI E: Ri ght . I t hi nk Ter r y does
22 pr ovi de t hat and secondar i l y, I woul d i ndi cat e t hat
23 t he St at e of Nevada, i n enact i ng st at ut e, cannot t ake
24 away f r om t he r i ght s or pr ot ect i ons an i ndi vi dual has
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1 under f eder al l aw i . e. , t he Ter r y case. However , t he
2 St ate of Nevada can pr ovi de t he same or gr eat er
3 pr ot ect i on t o i ndi vi dual s.
4 Now, one way t o l ook at 171. 123 and 171. 1232
5 i s t o vi ew t hem as a br eak out of what you mi ght
6 gener al l y - - mor e gener al l y cal l t he Ter r y Doct r i ne
7 and t hus i n . 123, i t t al ks about ci r cumst ances
8 j ust i f yi ng a det ent i on of t he person but i n . 1232, i f
9 I may r ead i t , actual l y i t says, "I f any peace of f i cer
10 r easonabl y bel i eves t hat any per son whom t he per son
11 who t he peace of f i cer has det ai ned or i s about t o
12 det ai n pur suant t o NRS 171. 123, " and t hen goes on t o
13 t al k about bei ng ar med and dangerous.
14 So t he of f i cer st i l l has t o j ust i f y bot h t he
15 or i gi nal det ent i on and t he pat - down. I hope I ' m
16 addr essi ng t he cour t ' s quest i on, but t he f act - - l et ' s
17 assume f or t he sake of argument t hat t he det ent i on was
18 r easonabl e. A pat - down may not be r easonabl e and may
19 vi ol ate NRS- 171. 1232.
20 THE COURT: Wel l , I cer t ai nl y t hi nk t he
21 of f i cer had pr obabl e cause t o at l east quest i on.
22 MR. LESLI E: And I ' m not sur e t hat we di sput e
23 t hat . Mr . Coughl i n i dent i f i ed hi msel f and cooper at ed.
24 What happened t hen and t hat ' s why I poi nt t o
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1 Subsect i on 3 of 171. 123 wi t h r egar d t o detent i on and
2 t hat ' s a separ at e i ssue t han t he pat - down of t he
3 det ai nee but under t he - -
4 THE COURT: Let me get t o t he second par t
5 t hough because I underst and your argument t hat he had
6 no r i ght t o pat hi m down. The second par t says
7 not hi ng sei zed by t he of f i cer i n any such sear ch i s
8 admi ssi bl e i n any pr oceedi ng unl ess t he sear ch was
9 di scl osed - - i naudi bl e. What i s i t t hat i s ceased as
10 a resul t of a pat down?
11 As I under st ood t he t est i mony, sei zur e was as
12 a r esul t of t he sear ch i nci dent ar r est ?
13 MR. LESLI E: No, I don' t vi ew i t t hat way
14 because t he way I vi ew i t , t he way we vi ew i t i s t hat
15 you have r eal l y at l east t hr ee st ages, t he i ni t i al
16 detent i on, t he pat - down f or weapons and t hen t he
17 sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est .
18 Was t he i ni t i al det ent i on r easonabl e such
19 t hat t he of f i cer coul d quest i on Mr . Coughl i n, obt ai n
20 hi s i dent i f i cat i on and ask hi m quest i ons, and Mr .
21 Coughl i n coul d choose t o answer or not , t hat i s under
22 NRS- 171. 123. Mr . Coughl i n had ever y r i ght t o not
23 answer t he quest i ons of t he of f i cer - -
24 THE COURT: Wel l , I don' t t hi nk he di d answer
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1 t hem.
2 MR. LESLI E: Okay but not answer i ng a
3 quest i on and t her eby emot i onal l y f r ust r at i ng t he
4 of f i cer , does not j ust i f y a subsequent Ter r y sear ch
5 pat - down f or weapons. Any pat - down f or weapons has to
6 be i ndependent l y j ust i f i ed by a r easonabl e bel i ef by
7 t he of f i cer t hat t he subj ect i s armed wi t h a danger ous
8 weapon and i s a thr eat t o t he of f i cer .
9 Thi s of f i cer cannot poi nt t o a si ngl e f act
10 t hat j ust i f i es t hat pat - down. We' r e seeki ng t o
11 suppr ess at t hat poi nt of t he pat - down t he i Phone and
12 al l t est i mony r el at ed t o t he i Phone. The f act t hat
13 subsequent l y pur suant t o a sear ch i nci dent t o ar r est ,
14 t he phone was t aken out of Mr . Coughl i n' s pocket i s
15 i r r el evant . I f we wi n on t he pat - down, you never get
16 t o t he sear ch i nci dent . The phone st ays out . The
17 t est i mony of t he ar r est and t he pul l i ng t he phone out
18 of t he - -
19 THE COURT: That ' s why I ' m aski ng because
20 l et ' s say you wi pe out t he pat - down, you' r e sayi ng
21 t hat t he ar r est was based on t he pat - down?
22 I mean, someone had al r eady t ol d t he of f i cer
23 t hat t he def endant had hi s phone?
24 MR. LESLI E: No. As I under st and i t , t hat
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1 happened af t er t he pat - down. I asked t he of f i cer on
2 cr oss- exami nat i on, "You i ndi cat ed you spoke t o Mr .
3 Gobl e and Mr . Zar at e and got t hei r i nput , t hat was
4 af t er t he pat - down. I t hi nk t hat ' s i mpor t ant .
5 So t he of f i cer t hen