2009 - International Taekwon-Do Federation 2014 · - On line ITF Magazine Back To Top POSTED BY: Mark_Skyrme on 08/19/2009 10:06:14 original-itf wrote: At the event on the 5th September

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POSTED BY: original-itf on 08/17/2009 16:15:57

Please note the seminar for Grand Master Choi Jung Hwa on 5th of September 2009 in derby, times have now changed.

All grades MUST be at the venue at 9.50am including Black Belts, so the seminar is a 10am till 5pm now for all Degree members

Colour belts will finnish off at 1pm

Break till 1.30pm

All Black Belts will be on the floor till finnish

There are still places available please visit www.masterharrystaekwondo.com

Thank You and Tae Kwon!

--------------------------------------------------------------www.original-itf.co.uk - On line ITF Magazine

POSTED BY: wipeout on 08/17/2009 18:28:13

Whats prompted the change? What will happen for those black belts unable to get to the seminar for 9:50am? Not saying this is thecase for me, but it seems a bit of a big ask for all those who have booked train tickets etc and paid quite a bit of money to meet theoriginal itinery.. What will black belts be doing for the morning session?

TaeKwon,

Thank you

Mike

--------------------------------------------------------------마이콜

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wipeout wrote:

Whats prompted the change? What will happen for those black belts unable to get to the seminar for 9:50am? Not sayingthis is the case for me, but it seems a bit of a big ask for all those who have booked train tickets etc and paid quite a bit ofmoney to meet the original itinery.. What will black belts be doing for the morning session?

TaeKwon,

Thank you

Mike

Sorry Mike but I dont have the answers you have ask for, All I know I got an e-mail and a text telling me to sign up and post thechanges here at 9pm tonight which i am informed come from Master Harry.

I would say it will be fine to stick to your plans, but to be sure please e-mail him via his site, and i am sure he will answer what youhave asked.

Tae Kwon!


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POSTED BY: m-star on 08/18/2009 04:25:56

OK, Master HARRY HAS JUST RANG ME AND YES,THE TIME HAS CHANGED.

I EXPRESSED PEOPLES CONCERNS THAT ARE TRAVELLING FROM FURTHER AFIELD AND HE SAID IF YOU CANT GET THERE FORTHE EARLIER TIME, DONT WORRY.

IT WOULD HAVE JUST GIVEN YOU A FULL DAY WITH MASTER CHOI INSTEAD OF HALF.

YOU'RE WELCOME TO COME FOR THE ORIGINAL TIME SHOULD YOU WISH.

WE WOULD ALSO LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT ANYONE WHO PRACTICES ITF STYLE TKD, CAN ATTEND MASTER HARRY'S SEMINAR INTHE 5TH SEPTEMBER, WHETHER THEY ARE A MEMBER OF THE ITF OR NOT,AS IT IS AN OPEN SEMINAR.

IT IS TOTALLY YOUR CHOICE AND ALL THE SEMINARS THAT WEEKEND ARE ITF SANCTIONED SO YOU ARE 'ALLOWED' TO ATTENDWHICH EVER YOU HAVE CHOSEN.

--------------------------------------------------------------'New Moon' movie release date: Nov 20th 2009! WOOP WOOP!!

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POSTED BY: wipeout on 08/18/2009 05:11:02

Sounds good! I cant wait!

--------------------------------------------------------------마이콜

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Master Harry has infomed me that anyone who would still like to attend his seminar on the 5th sept in Derby, can still do so asentries will be recieved up until 5 days before tha date.

go to www.masterharrystaekwondo.com and get the contact details.

thank you


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POSTED BY: asterix on 08/18/2009 15:36:07

I am seriously tempted to go, especially as Derby is only just over and hour away. I may see if i can get some of our students etc togo as well.

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that would begreat asterix!

the more the merrier!


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At the event on the 5th September 2009, Master Harry has requested Original ITF to have a crew in filming and taking pictures ofthe event which will appear in the October Magazine and on all sites that are linked to our main site.



Just for the users information

Tae Kwon!


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POSTED BY: Mark_Skyrme on 08/19/2009 10:06:14

original-itf wrote:

At the event on the 5th September 2009, Master Harry has requested Original ITF to have a crew in filming and takingpictures of the event which will appear in the October Magazine and on all sites that are linked to our main site.

Just for the users information

Tae Kwon!

Mr Snow,

I have organised several Master Choi seminars and from my understanding filming is restricted. Pictures are OK, My advise wouldbe to confirm with Master Choi or Master Rai beforehand.

RegardsMark Skyrme

--------------------------------------------------------------facile est inventis addereit is easy to add to things already invented.

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POSTED BY: IluvTKD on 08/19/2009 10:10:22

Mark_Skyrme wrote:

I have organised several Master Choi seminars and from my understanding filming is restricted. Regards Mark Skyrme

Well for the sake of TKD and for the students of this wonderful KMA of SD, I hope your understanding is wrong or that thereare some good common sense reasons for any and all restrictions.

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IluvTKD wrote:

Mark_Skyrme wrote:

I have organised several Master Choi seminars and from my understanding filming is restricted. Regards MarkSkyrme

Well for the sake of TKD and for the students of this wonderful KMA of SD, I hope your understanding is wrong orthat there are some good common sense reasons for any and all restrictions.

Thats my experience, from attending and organising many seminars i can only offer the above advise. Is your experience different?

I will state, that a seminar for online viewing is a completely different "kettle of fish" than your standard one. Mr Reid has provedthis with his recent classes held specifically for this community. Much more planning on the presentation is needed to ensure theaudience attention is captured.

I am sure TKD Source have many such video's in the pipeline which address this issue and look forward to viewing them.


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Mark_Skyrme wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

Mark_Skyrme wrote:

I have organised several Master Choi seminars and from my understanding filming is restricted. RegardsMark Skyrme


Thats my experience, from attending and organising many seminars i can only offer the above advise. Is your experiencedifferent?

I will state, that a seminar for online viewing is a completely different "kettle of fish" than your standard one. Mr Reid hasproved this with his recent classes held specifically for this community. Much more planning on the presentation is neededto ensure the audience attention is captured.

I am sure TKD Source have many such video's in the pipeline which address this issue and look forward to viewing them.

i would direct this info to master harry as this has been arranged for months.we have been assigned the job so we will be there. taekwon


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No Problem, always best to get these things sorted in advance.

I'll be there too


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Mark_Skyrme wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

Mark_Skyrme wrote:

I have organised several Master Choi seminars and from my understanding filming is restricted. RegardsMark Skyrme


Thats my experience, from attending and organising many seminars i can only offer the above advise. Is your experiencedifferent?

I will state, that a seminar for online viewing is a completely different "kettle of fish" than your standard one. Mr Reid hasproved this with his recent classes held specifically for this community. Much more planning on the presentation is neededto ensure the audience attention is captured. I am sure TKD Source have many such video's in the pipeline which addressthis issue and look forward to viewing them.

I have been to MA events where they did not allow filming. That was usually becaise they wanted to seel an official copy videoof their event to make money. While I see that as a common sense reason, I am not sure what the legalities are in actuallypreventing someone from filming an event, especially when you paid an admission ticket and or paid a fee to PARTICIPATE in theevent. I am also sure that laws and rules will vary from place to place.

I have also been to non MA events, where recordings were not allowed. I experienced this in an academic setting, where someinstructors did not want their talks recorded. I found this to be strange, as many would and in an academic setting the purpose is toabsorb the lecture and what better way to take notes then to electronically record the talk itself? I have also seen common senserestrictions on live plays or entertainment, as flashes from cameras can be very distracting and bootleg copies can hurt revenue. Ialso am aware that many, like politicians don't like being recorded, as it can come back to hurt or haunt them by their politicalopponents and oppostition. However it is the reality of the political world.

However in a MA setting, instruction is aided by the ability to grasp the material. Recording it can have great benefits for thestudents and for the instructor. So I would never have a problem letting anyone film in a MA setting, as long as it was for personaluse IF an official vidoe recording is going to be made available for sale and revenue purposes. As a martial artists, I would alwaysabide by that agreememt I gave my word to. I myself would not have a problem being recorder. My only fear is that my looks maybreak the camera, which for me would be far more embarrasing than any mis-steps and mistakes I will MAKE

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well i hear the camera makes u look about 10lb heavier so i'd best not eat between now and september!! lmao!

(**yeah,right! like THATS gonna happen!**)


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IluvTKD wrote:

Mark_Skyrme wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

Mark_Skyrme wrote:

I have organised several Master Choi seminars and from my understanding filming is restricted.Regards Mark Skyrme

Well for the sake of TKD and for the students of this wonderful KMA of SD, I hope your understanding iswrong or that there are some good common sense reasons for any and all restrictions.

Thats my experience, from attending and organising many seminars i can only offer the above advise. Is yourexperience different?

I will state, that a seminar for online viewing is a completely different "kettle of fish" than your standard one. MrReid has proved this with his recent classes held specifically for this community. Much more planning on thepresentation is needed to ensure the audience attention is captured. I am sure TKD Source have many suchvideo's in the pipeline which address this issue and look forward to viewing them.

I have been to MA events where they did not allow filming. That was usually becaise they wanted to seel an officialcopy video of their event to make money. While I see that as a common sense reason, I am not sure what the legalitiesare in actually preventing someone from filming an event, especially when you paid an admission ticket and or paid a feeto PARTICIPATE in the event. I am also sure that laws and rules will vary from place to place.

I have also been to non MA events, where recordings were not allowed. I experienced this in an academic setting, wheresome instructors did not want their talks recorded. I found this to be strange, as many would and in an academic settingthe purpose is to absorb the lecture and what better way to take notes then to electronically record the talk itself? I havealso seen common sense restrictions on live plays or entertainment, as flashes from cameras can be very distracting andbootleg copies can hurt revenue. I also am aware that many, like politicians don't like being recorded, as it can come backto hurt or haunt them by their political opponents and oppostition. However it is the reality of the political world.



However in a MA setting, instruction is aided by the ability to grasp the material. Recording it can have great benefits forthe students and for the instructor. So I would never have a problem letting anyone film in a MA setting, as long as it wasfor personal use IF an official vidoe recording is going to be made available for sale and revenue purposes. As a martialartists, I would always abide by that agreememt I gave my word to. I myself would not have a problem being recorder.My only fear is that my looks may break the camera, which for me would be far more embarrasing than any mis-steps andmistakes I will MAKE

Agreed! we was asked back in January if our company would undertake the task of capturing video footage making a video

and covering it as reporters now that coverage is in the form of the Original ITF Magazine, as far as I am aware this is to serve twopurposes

one: to capture the vital points made by the GM in question so that all instructors can have it in the form of a DVD FREE,

Two to go on YouTube and this site to promote future events undertaken by the said ITF,

we are also the company providing the amp, mics and sound system to help Master Harry and the GM.

I believe that this issue will be sorted and we will know the outcome in a few days after speaking to Master Harry this very eveningabout this.

Tae Kwon


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POSTED BY: HParker on 08/20/2009 03:47:24

I guess the only thing is making sure that parents are aware that their children may be filmed/photo'ed in an official capacity andthat the footage may be distributed, before the event. Although people generally take their own photos at events, it is differentwhen this is officially done. Some parents may object to this, and we do have an obligation with regards to Child Protection etc.

Taekwon

H

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HParker wrote:

I guess the only thing is making sure that parents are aware that their children may be filmed/photo'ed in an officialcapacity and that the footage may be distributed, before the event. Although people generally take their own photos atevents, it is different when this is officially done. Some parents may object to this, and we do have an obligation withregards to Child Protection etc.

Taekwon

H

Agreed!

however as the LTSI, the group we are part of has 25 - 30 attending and all are happy to promote itf in the magazine ourphotogrpher will only take images from LTSI and ITUK people if anyone objects, so I see this as not a problem. There are rules /laws on taking pictures and as a magazine owner we are now fully upto date on these so we are more then prepared in knowing thelaw plus the company and the group has a solicitor who advises us on all magazine release and statements now made by us.

Tae Kwon


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POSTED BY: MasterRai on 08/21/2009 14:58:38 [ Quote ] [ Delete ] [ Edit ]

Taekwon

As you may be aware, the final say as to if videtaping will be allowed or not will be from Master Choi.

Also keep in mind that taping a seminar is for your personal use only and cannot be distributed or publicised without the writtenpermission of the International Taekwon-Do Federation.

Taekwon

Master Rai

Assistant to pres. Choi

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POSTED BY: original-itf on 08/21/2009 15:43:15 [ Quote ] [ Delete ] [ Edit ]

MasterRai wrote:

Taekwon

As you may be aware, the final say as to if videtaping will be allowed or not will be from Master Choi.

Also keep in mind that taping a seminar is for your personal use only and cannot be distributed or publicised without thewritten permission of the International Taekwon-Do Federation.

Taekwon

Master Rai

Assistant to pres. Choi

If i may ask, why? I would say that restricting promotion of events does more harm then good esp when the others are alowingfilming. I will request that master harry makes the request as asked but can not understand why esp when the ITF has millionspracticing that do not go on these events due to costings so promoting it via services like you tube does good not bad.

I am curious, as a coach and as a parent why this is?

Tae Kwon


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POSTED BY: administrator on 08/24/2009 14:41:31 [ Quote ] [ Delete ] [ Edit ]

Mr Snow,

I cannot help but wonder why you deal with these sorts of things here instead of dealing directly with the people who are involvedwith sanctioning etc. Surely you realize that this method will not yield the desired results because the method you use arousessuspicion as to your motives.

You ask "Why"?. This is what I mean. Not only do I wonder why you are asking here but I wonder why you ask at all! You are amedia professional correct? If you want to film and then distribute something you, like us and everyone else, need permission. Thereasons are obvious and include the following:

1. Every participant must agree or they can sue for a percentage of fees earned.

2. Every minor must be able to show written consent from their parent or guardian that they may be used in a video intended fordistribution.

3. You must ensure that this does not come into conflict with any existing agreements the ITF or President Choi have with any othercompany that currently has valid contracts for exactly this sort of thing.


25/08/2009http://vip.tkdsource.com/forum/posts/id_464/page_last/

4. You must have an agreement in place of your own giving you the consent to do so.

Failure to recognize any of these items not only puts you into a bad position, it creates several point of liability for the ITF, the hostand President Choi himself.

How can you expect the ITF to simply allow people to film seminars for redistribution without an agreement in place!? What if somecompany was sent and they film the entire thing and then use simple editing tools to discredit the ITF or President Choi. It is nothard to edit audio so that something is said that wasn't etc.

Participants who film for personal use are typically permitted. The problem with you is that the ITF and President Choi have foundout that they are filming a seminar for redistribution by reading this forum! Do you not think they should have some say or someinput? A report is of course different but you are talking about filming, editing and then releasing DVD's of the event.

There is a TON of leg work that goes on behind the scene to make these sorts of arrangements. The ITF, like any other largeorganization can be a target for people who want to capitalize on a mistake so they need to be extremely careful and do their duediligence regarding these matters.

This thread and your posts have made it look as if the ITF is hording knowledge so they can sell it themselves when anyone whofunctions in this business should know that this is not the case at all. They have to follow proper procedures or they are at a hugerisk!

Why are you in the mood to provoke things so much? Or, did you really not take the items I've mentioned into consideration?

Taekwon,

Chris Reid

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POSTED BY: IluvTKD on 08/24/2009 14:51:54 [ Quote ] [ Delete ] [ Edit ]

I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this are discussed in a public internet discussion forum. Theseare private matters best left dealt with in private. Taking them into a public venue can not as far as I see, help faciliate propermediation and acceptable agreement for the parties involved. I again question the logic or reasoning of what appears to me to be amis-guided approach. This of course is only my personal point of view, stated again, as it seems this is a recurring issue or methodutiliized

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administrator wrote:

Mr Snow,

I cannot help but wonder why you deal with these sorts of things here instead of dealing directly with the people who areinvolved with sanctioning etc. Surely you realize that this method will not yield the desired results because the methodyou use arouses suspicion as to your motives.

Mr Read, did you see that my response was an offensive one? No i asked a question nothing more a questionwhich has been put to me by the orgaizer, there are no motives here so please do not claim there is...

You ask "Why"?. This is what I mean. Not only do I wonder why you are asking here but I wonder why you ask at all! Youare a media professional correct? If you want to film and then distribute something you, like us and everyone else, needpermission. The reasons are obvious and include the following:

No I am not a media professional but yes i know about wavering all rights as we had to do this in a recentbook our guys just took part in.

1. Every participant must agree or they can sue for a percentage of fees earned.

I am sorry but we are on crossed wires here I was asked to cover an event yet you choose to attack meclaiming i have other motives, why i asked a question as the job had or rather has be assigned to me or rathermy magazine, the dvd was going to be points made by our pressident to help all and NO costing involved.

2. Every minor must be able to show written consent from their parent or guardian that they may be used in a videointended for distribution.

Agreed

3. You must ensure that this does not come into conflict with any existing agreements the ITF or President Choi have withany other company that currently has valid contracts for exactly this sort of thing.

agreed

4. You must have an agreement in place of your own giving you the consent to do so.

Well ok i agree maybe i have over looked this as currently this is verbal.

Failure to recognize any of these items not only puts you into a bad position, it creates several point of liability for the ITF,the host and President Choi himself.

Fair point but again i have been asked to do the job perhaps you should point this out to Master Harry as I acton his behalf



How can you expect the ITF to simply allow people to film seminars for redistribution without an agreement in place!?What if some company was sent and they film the entire thing and then use simple editing tools to discredit the ITF orPresident Choi. It is not hard to edit audio so that something is said that wasn't etc.

Mr Read again I agree but the film we are talking about would be a 10 minute youtube version to promote notdiscredit, are you aware many videos and cameras will be there as many parents are watching as tickets havebeen sold on this premise? are you or the ITF going to stop this? Sir we are only talking about me filming andhelping ITF not recking it.

Participants who film for personal use are typically permitted. The problem with you is that the ITF and President Choihave found out that they are filming a seminar for redistribution by reading this forum! Do you not think they should havesome say or some input? A report is of course different but you are talking about filming, editing and then releasing DVD'sof the event.

No totally crossed wired here i am afraid it was a request by the host,

There is a TON of leg work that goes on behind the scene to make these sorts of arrangements. The ITF, like any otherlarge organization can be a target for people who want to capitalize on a mistake so they need to be extremely careful anddo their due diligence regarding these matters.

fair point this is not an argument just a querry....

This thread and your posts have made it look as if the ITF is hording knowledge so they can sell it themselves whenanyone who functions in this business should know that this is not the case at all. They have to follow proper proceduresor they are at a huge risk!

Again this is incorrect if it looks like i am saying that I apoligize....

Why are you in the mood to provoke things so much? Or, did you really not take the items I've mentioned intoconsideration?

Common Mr Read, Again i asked a Master the question and somhow you feel i am provoking, i am not here tofight with you or anyone else of that matter, i dont have the time or the energy, i asked a fair question andgot a slaying for it, perhaps some of the above is due to misunderstanding.

Thank you sir keep up the good work.

Tae Kwon

Taekwon,

Chris Reid


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IluvTKD wrote:

I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this are discussed in a public internet discussionforum. These are private matters best left dealt with in private. Taking them into a public venue can not as far as I see,help faciliate proper mediation and acceptable agreement for the parties involved. I again question the logic or reasoningof what appears to me to be a mis-guided approach. This of course is only my personal point of view, stated again, as itseems this is a recurring issue or method utiliized

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degree did not know of theserules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private? forums are about sharing and after all welearn from questions asked....

Tae Kwon


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POSTED BY: MikeB on 08/24/2009 17:19:44 [ Quote ] [ Delete ] [ Edit ]

original-itf wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this are discussed in a public internetdiscussion forum. These are private matters best left dealt with in private. Taking them into a public venue cannot as far as I see, help faciliate proper mediation and acceptable agreement for the parties involved. I againquestion the logic or reasoning of what appears to me to be a mis-guided approach. This of course is only mypersonal point of view, stated again, as it seems this is a recurring issue or method utiliized

Any dealings with the ITF should be seen as Business to Business and should be kept private. In this SUE HAPPY world,every step should be taken to ensure both sides are on the same page. Even though you are the Videographer for thisevent it should be aproved by the ITF and Master Choi. They will have the final say on how the video will be distributed.

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degree did not know ofthese rules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private? forums are about sharing andafter all we learn from questions asked....

Tae Kwon

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POSTED BY: IluvTKD on 08/24/2009 19:59:29 [ Quote ] [ Delete ] [ Edit ]

original-itf wrote:



IluvTKD wrote:

I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this are discussed in a public internetdiscussion forum. These are private matters best left dealt with in private. Taking them into a public venue cannot as far as I see, help faciliate proper mediation and acceptable agreement for the parties involved. I againquestion the logic or reasoning of what appears to me to be a mis-guided approach. This of course is only mypersonal point of view, stated again, as it seems this is a recurring issue or method utiliized

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degree did not know ofthese rules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private? forums are about sharing andafter all we learn from questions asked.... Tae Kwon

All I can say is I don't have a horse in this race. It really does not involve me. I try to be as open and fair minded as possible. Ican only restate what I have said before, once it looks like there may be either a glitch or matters that have to be worked outbefore hand, it is in my estimation best done between the parties involved privately and not through a public discussion forum.WHAT about this is NOT UNDERSTOOD? I can only try my best to explain something. I can not comprehend it for anyone. That issimply and very obviously out of my control or abilities.

My post was not intended or directed to anyone person. Several of us have sounded in on this thread about the question of filming.Kicking around whether or not someone can, should film an event is a question best directed by the host of the event, directly withthose putting on the event. When done like this, it looks more like trading gripes back and forth or airing out dirty laundry in public.

To me, our TKD is a semi or para military run organization. At times it is hard to balance competiting business interests, where allsides should have an equal say and technical issues where seniors or technical directors have the final say and issues of respect andprotocol that often get clouded by rank.

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IluvTKD wrote:

original-itf wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this are discussed in a publicinternet discussion forum. These are private matters best left dealt with in private. Taking them into apublic venue can not as far as I see, help faciliate proper mediation and acceptable agreement for theparties involved. I again question the logic or reasoning of what appears to me to be a mis-guidedapproach. This of course is only my personal point of view, stated again, as it seems this is a recurringissue or method utiliized

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degree did notknow of these rules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private? forums areabout sharing and after all we learn from questions asked.... Tae Kwon

All I can say is I don't have a horse in this race. It really does not involve me. I try to be as open and fair minded aspossible. I can only restate what I have said before, once it looks like there may be either a glitch or matters that have tobe worked out before hand, it is in my estimation best done between the parties involved privately and not through apublic discussion forum. WHAT about this is NOT UNDERSTOOD? I can only try my best to explain something. I can notcomprehend it for anyone. That is simply and very obviously out of my control or abilities.

I was not going to answer but feel it must be answered, you claim this must be sorted by the parties envolvedright! like a pressident of state the master in question can not contact our pressident but if he could i mayhave never asked.

My post was not intended or directed to anyone person. Several of us have sounded in on this thread about the questionof filming. Kicking around whether or not someone can, should film an event is a question best directed by the host of theevent, directly with those putting on the event. When done like this, it looks more like trading gripes back and forth orairing out dirty laundry in public.

see above, nope it asked or rather i asked for clarification.

To me, our TKD is a semi or para military run organization. At times it is hard to balance competiting business interests,where all sides should have an equal say and technical issues where seniors or technical directors have the final say andissues of respect and protocol that often get clouded by rank.

ok, you are joking right so from the above it appears you think it is not ok to ask a fair valid question to thosethat hold a senior rank to you? lets face it we will never agree with everyone, there are seniors that ipersonally can not stomach, there are those that can not stomach me, yet what do you expect we are in an artthat we will meet friends and enemies as it is so large it is impossible to be liked or like everyone.

refer to my question i asked i was not rude to the master in anyway, shape or form and if it was i would bethe first to say sorry.

thank you for your time.

Tae kwon


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POSTED BY: JAWilson on 08/25/2009 09:21:29

original-itf wrote:

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degree did not know of theserules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private? forums are about sharing and after all we learnfrom questions asked.... Tae Kwon

its good to promote the event here and extend invitations to all Taekwon-Do members worldwide, i've had the honor to meet GMChoi Jung Hwa three times, training in his seminars twice and each time was unbelievable, such a talented man and unbelievablyhumble and down to earth, never seen him angry, he is always smiling.

i think on private matters, best to take it to the ITF-administration forum as the replies will be answered honestly and Mr Reid iscompletely right, any small information can be used to dis-credit GM Choi or the ITF, bare in mind, if its an open seminar and any'passed comments' are recorded, they could have major or minor effects.

GM Choi always shares stories about the ITF history, he is a man who has seen it and lived it, sometimes the legend of the storiesare best left imprinted in the mind instead of recorded on the tape.

considering your intend to use it for youtube, how many videos do see with audio of GM Choi Jung Hwa talking? in fact, there arevery few videos of any President talking on film. some have clips of the person, not actually performing anything, just the presenceof them.

i believe your intentions are good, i cant honestly see any harm caused and not a personal vendetta as all the vids you've createdhave some nice highlight reels.i would just say as a man of your position unfortunately its better to go directly to the source and cut out all the little men/womenin the process as several members here can directly contact GM Choi and seek his approval prior to the event which is only daysaway.

all the best with this issue, i hope its resolved peacefully and for the sake of the attendees & GM Choi it doesn't affect themeeting & symbolism of GM Choi's seminar.

--------------------------------------------------------------You couldn't fool your own mother on the foolingest day of your life with an electrified fooling machine!

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original-itf wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

original-itf wrote:

[quote="IluvTKD"]I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this are discussedin a public internet discussion forum. These are private matters best left dealt with in private. Takingthem into a public venue can not as far as I see, help faciliate proper mediation and acceptableagreement for the parties involved. I again question the logic or reasoning of what appears to me to be amis-guided approach. This of course is only my personal point of view, stated again, as it seems this is arecurring issue or method utiliized

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degree did notknow of these rules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private? forums areabout sharing and after all we learn from questions asked.... Tae Kwon

All I can say is I don't have a horse in this race. It really does not involve me. I try to be as open and fair minded aspossible. I can only restate what I have said before, once it looks like there may be either a glitch or matters that have tobe worked out before hand, it is in my estimation best done between the parties involved privately and not through apublic discussion forum. WHAT about this is NOT UNDERSTOOD? I can only try my best to explain something. I can notcomprehend it for anyone. That is simply and very obviously out of my control or abilities.

I was not going to answer but feel it must be answered, you claim this must be sorted by the parties envolvedright! like a pressident of state the master in question can not contact our pressident but if he could i mayhave never asked.

Again, I can only explain, I can not comprehend it for you. Now do you see how I only replied with general concepts, with nospecifics. You however choose to replied to general themes that I make, with specific comebacks, which CAN and obvioulsy havebeen interpeted by some as inflamatory or problematic. Where do you do this? Was it in private, to the parties involved? No, whynot? You have specific responses. Should they not be directed to those involved privately, to cut down the possibility that some onthis public forum will not mis-interpet things?

What you seem to do, whether it is intentional or not, is either confuse or upset some. Just see the responses to your posts. Pleaseremember I am not involved in this in any sense. I am simply a no name poster that looks to learn and share. As I stated already, Ihave no horse in this race. This issue does not directly concern me. I would very much like to see well done videos of events. I hopethat some can come out of this event.

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02/09/2009http://vip.tkdsource.com/public/forum/posts/id_464/title_grand-master-choi-seminar-...


original-itf wrote:

[quote="IluvTKD"]My post was not intended or directed to anyone person. Several of us have sounded in on this threadabout the question of filming. Kicking around whether or not someone can, should film an event is a question best directedby the host of the event, directly with those putting on the event. When done like this, it looks more like trading gripesback and forth or airing out dirty laundry in public.

see above, nope it asked or rather i asked for clarification.

Yes of course it did. All I am saying and some others are as well, is direct your question to the parties involved who have theauthority to answer the question. Do this in a private e-mail to them. I am sure all of their e-mail or contact information appears onthe ITF-C website. You also have the additional option to send a PM (with the P being Private message) to the Special Assistant tothe President, who is a member and regular positive contributor to this site. Finally, phone numbers appear on the website, inaddition to addresses, if you do not think your e-mail may get to the right person.

Asking for clarification is a good thing. Knowing where to get that clarification is another thing.

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original-itf wrote:

[quote="IluvTKD"]#1To me, our TKD is a semi or para military run organization. #2At times it is hard to balancecompetiting business interests, where all sides should have an equal say and #3technical issues where seniors or technicaldirectors have the final say and issues of #4respect and protocol that often get clouded by #5rank.

ok, you are joking right so from the above it appears you think it is not ok to ask a fair valid question to thosethat hold a senior rank to you? lets face it we will never agree with everyone, there are seniors that ipersonally can not stomach, there are those that can not stomach me, yet what do you expect we are in an artthat we will meet friends and enemies as it is so large it is impossible to be liked or like everyone.

refer to my question i asked i was not rude to the master in anyway, shape or form and if it was i would bethe first to say sorry.

thank you for your time. Tae kwon

No I am not joking at all. In fact I think this is such a serious matter that I replied only with common sense generalities orconcepts. However you take these vague concepts and find faults with them, even to the point where you think I am JOKING. Youeven confuse it with not be okay to ask a fair and valid question.

Where can I begin?

#1 above="To me, our TKD is a semi or para military run organization." This is pretty obvious. It was founded by a miltary generaland a politician (Ambassador). His training and education was in caligraphy, general academics, martial arts, law, army, militaryintelligence and tactics. I do not belive he had any business degree or academic education in this area. he set up and ran the ITF asa pyramid type organization with him on the top. This to me is pretty self evident. It worked very well in some areas, likestandardizing movement and patterns along with much of a common syllabus. That is most impressive. It didn't work in areas ofbusiness concerns, as the business did not grow and we lost so many valuable members along the way, starting with Col Nam, GenWoo, Sgt Major Kim, Sgt Han all the way up to GM Park and even President Choi.

So until the ITF, any ITF runs like a business with benefits for its members, this will continue to happen. It is sadly happening now.In a business, members have equal say, rank has nothing to do with it. So you, as a prospective filmaker with a business prospect,can and should be able to speak directly with whomever it is necessary to find answers so a successful business venture for themutual benefit of parties involved can happen. This goes with out saying. Sorry that you didn't see it and that you seem to notknow how to access the person(s) needed to finalize a business venture. I only guess that your approach or attepmt here, may onlyadd obstacles to making your business venture successful. Which saddness me, as I would love to view it. I think the fact that GMTran has an MBA and his group has treid to make his group more democratic and business like is a good thing. Maybe he has to, ashis group can not claim a bloodline or the last wish of the founder, or have many seniors within their group. (But that is anotherthread)

#2 above="At times it is hard to balance competiting business interests, where all sides should have an equal say" This I also thinkis self evident. Gen Choi ruled like a one man show. As stated above, many left, replaced often by those drawn to his label asfounder of the world's most popular MA. No group has that any longer. All groups need to give equal say to members as far asbusiness concerns go. If not, members will not see a benefit of membership and eventually will cease to be a member.

#3 above="technical issues where seniors or technical directors have the final say" A MA is governed and taught by seniors. If youvalue the input and guidance of a senior, you remain their junior in hopes of learning more. So to me it is obvious that technicalissues are something that remains under the control of those seniors with the approriate experience, knowledge and wisdom. Noteall 3 are not the same in my view. This also should not be taken as juniors don't have input, as they should. We can and do learnfrom everyone.

#4 above="respect and protocol that often get clouded" To me, these are 2 seperate issues. Protocol are outward signs or acts ofbehavior required in an organization, like a para or semi-military group. One can and should exhibit these protocols. Howeverrespect is something that can not be falsely bestowed on someone you actually don't respect. Respect is earned by the actions of aperson. These terms are often confused.

#5 above="rank The rank one holds is symbolic of how long a person trained and when they tested. It is not in my estimation theonly sign of senority. I am sure that GM Rhee Ki Ha still considers Col Nam Tae Hi his senior, even though GM Rhee was the firstone to make GM under Gen Choi. Idealy rank would be in line with senority, if everyone tested and progressed according to thesame schedule with the exact same requirements. So if I am in the room with a 10th Dan, they will of course outrank me. I wouldnot say that in "real TKD" there is no such thing as 10th degree.

thank you for your time So sir you are most welcome for my time. I am very happy to share it, along with whatever I write,hoping a few will see some value in it. I actually enjoy it very much.

refer to my question i asked i was not rude to the master in anyway, shape or form and if it was i would be the first tosay sorry. I never said this in any way, shape or form. Sorry if you read it that way

it appears you think it is not ok to ask a fair valid question to those that hold a senior rank to you? This is simply nottrue. I think the only bad question is the one never asked. Gen Choi always stated that a good student most always be eager to askquestions and a good teacher will always make themselves available to answer questions, never fabricating an answer, but rahtersaying they don't know and working on getting the right answer from someone who would have it. However when asking aquestion, one should ask if of the proper person(s) and ask it in the approriate forum and ask it along with the neccessary protocol(if applicable).

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POSTED BY: Jamie_Scott on 08/25/2009 10:43:57

IluvTKD wrote:

original-itf wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

original-itf wrote:



[quote="IluvTKD"]I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters like this arediscussed in a public internet discussion forum. These are private matters best left dealt with inprivate. Taking them into a public venue can not as far as I see, help faciliate proper mediationand acceptable agreement for the parties involved. I again question the logic or reasoning of whatappears to me to be a mis-guided approach. This of course is only my personal point of view,stated again, as it seems this is a recurring issue or method utiliized

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8th Degreedid not know of these rules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has it goto be private?forums are about sharing and after all we learn from questions asked.... Tae Kwon

All I can say is I don't have a horse in this race. It really does not involve me. I try to be as open and fair mindedas possible. I can only restate what I have said before, once it looks like there may be either a glitch or mattersthat have to be worked out before hand, it is in my estimation best done between the parties involved privatelyand not through a public discussion forum. WHAT about this is NOT UNDERSTOOD? I can only try my best toexplain something. I can not comprehend it for anyone. That is simply and very obviously out of my control orabilities.

I was not going to answer but feel it must be answered, you claim this must be sorted by the partiesenvolved right! like a pressident of state the master in question can not contact our pressident but ifhe could i may have never asked.

Again, I can only explain, I can not comprehend it for you. Now do you see how I only replied with general concepts,with no specifics. You however choose to replied to general themes that I make, with specific comebacks, which CAN andobvioulsy have been interpeted by some as inflamatory or problematic. Where do you do this? Was it in private, to theparties involved? No, why not? You have specific responses. Should they not be directed to those involved privately, to cutdown the possibility that some on this public forum will not mis-interpet things?

What you seem to do, whether it is intentional or not, is either confuse or upset some. Just see the responses to yourposts. Please remember I am not involved in this in any sense. I am simply a no name poster that looks to learn andshare. As I stated already, I have no horse in this race. This issue does not directly concern me. I would very much like tosee well done videos of events. I hope that some can come out of this event.

I've been following this post and share your concerns, which is why I rang Master Harry earlier.

original-itf wrote:

Fair point but again i have been asked to do the job perhaps you should point this out to Master Harry as I acton his behalf

You say your acting on Master Harry's behalf, so why are you still responding on this subject when he asked you to refrain fromdoing so on the phone yesterday?

As already stated, this is a matter that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum causing unessisary tension

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ok i have reviewed this posting and for the life of me i can not understand the big deal, fact is my company was asked to cover itand make a video etc so no big deal there too. ok i see all points made, so we video our own people if if master choi says no ok wedeal with that on the day. the ltsi are ther as many others will be, we look after our own then. i think that this forum is a goodmedium for exposure and to push projects, i also think as per e.mail oftern it looks like u are bucking the ststem, i dont come towar but to learn and build on the knowladge but some see as stiring or provoking, its not!. thank u all for imput on the matter. taekwon


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original-itf wrote:

ok i have reviewed this posting and for the life of me i can not understand the big deal, fact is my company was asked tocover it and make a video etc so no big deal there too.

I agree totally that it was not a big deal. I think things changed when you posted that you would be filming, again no big deal.Then Mr. Skyrme posted suggesting getting proper clearance. Again no big deal. You then replied in a way that prompted others toadd input, with only confused the issue and then made it into a "big deal" for some, as getting clearance could not come from thisforum via this public venue, but should properly come from the hosts and those putting on the event. That was when the topic andquestions should in my estimation went private. It only helped to contribute to some defensive posts that could be viewed as airingdirty laundry in public, even if it was not the intent.

Remember I first sounded in saying it would be a shame if filming was not allowed. I then added that a justification can at times bemade. But if course that justification can only be made by those in power to allow or deny the filming. That is why the directionshould have been presented to them directly, and not on an open public forum. I hope this helpsand I hope that filming takes placeand that it can be shared for those not there, as that would be nice.

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Ten more days to go!



--------------------------------------------------------------hello,hola,안녕하세요, Καλωσόρισες, ǒ��ȡ�, привет, Hyvää päivää, ciao, こんにちは,喂, Powitanie, Buna ziua, Bonjour

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Jamie_Scott wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

original-itf wrote:

IluvTKD wrote:

original-itf wrote:

[quote="IluvTKD"]I simply am amazed and remain perplexed on why such matters likethis are discussed in a public internet discussion forum. These are private matters best leftdealt with in private. Taking them into a public venue can not as far as I see, help faciliateproper mediation and acceptable agreement for the parties involved. I again question thelogic or reasoning of what appears to me to be a mis-guided approach. This of course isonly my personal point of view, stated again, as it seems this is a recurring issue ormethod utiliized

Again sir why is this not the place to ask, was my question provokative? no, Sir an 8thDegree did not know of these rules stated by mr read so how can i know? why has itgoto be private? forums are about sharing and after all we learn from questionsasked.... Tae Kwon

All I can say is I don't have a horse in this race. It really does not involve me. I try to be as open and fairminded as possible. I can only restate what I have said before, once it looks like there may be either aglitch or matters that have to be worked out before hand, it is in my estimation best done between theparties involved privately and not through a public discussion forum. WHAT about this is NOTUNDERSTOOD? I can only try my best to explain something. I can not comprehend it for anyone. That issimply and very obviously out of my control or abilities.

I was not going to answer but feel it must be answered, you claim this must be sorted by theparties envolved right! like a pressident of state the master in question can not contactour pressident but if he could i may have never asked.

Again, I can only explain, I can not comprehend it for you. Now do you see how I only replied with generalconcepts, with no specifics. You however choose to replied to general themes that I make, with specificcomebacks, which CAN and obvioulsy have been interpeted by some as inflamatory or problematic. Where do youdo this? Was it in private, to the parties involved? No, why not? You have specific responses. Should they not bedirected to those involved privately, to cut down the possibility that some on this public forum will not mis-interpet things?

What you seem to do, whether it is intentional or not, is either confuse or upset some. Just see the responses toyour posts. Please remember I am not involved in this in any sense. I am simply a no name poster that looks tolearn and share. As I stated already, I have no horse in this race. This issue does not directly concern me. Iwould very much like to see well done videos of events. I hope that some can come out of this event.

I've been following this post and share your concerns, which is why I rang Master Harry earlier.

original-itf wrote:

Fair point but again i have been asked to do the job perhaps you should point this out to Master Harryas I act on his behalf

You say your acting on Master Harry's behalf, so why are you still responding on this subject when he asked you to refrainfrom doing so on the phone yesterday?

As already stated, this is a matter that shouldn't be discussed in a public forum causing unessisary tension

I have responded privatly mr scot with regards to this matter

tae kwon


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09/02/2009

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POSTED BY: blue_dragon_jimbo on 09/01/2009 03:16:15

m-star wrote:

Ten more days to go!

3 days to go well 4 if you include today!!

Its going to be such an early start for us northerns but well worth it!! can't wait!

--------------------------------------------------------------jamezk@hotmail.com - add me

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I missed the boat :( never mind, maybe next time!

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asterix wrote:

I missed the boat :( never mind, maybe next time!

master harry said to day you can stil get access to the event, so if you want to go, just e'mail and sign up. c u there maybe.


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Can you confirm that this is open to all ITF "style" and not just ITF affiliated?

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asterix wrote:

Can you confirm that this is open to all ITF "style" and not just ITF affiliated?

sir, as i am sure u r aware i am not a member of the itf, i have thirty plus members attending. g.m.choi is open minded, just look atthis site, get envolved and dont miss out. c u there.




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I think it makes good sense for the event to be opened to all. Not only will the host make needed income to offset expenses,but the organization may draw and sign up new members. A win win

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Documents

2009 - International Taekwon-Do Federation 2014 · - On line ITF Magazine Back To Top POSTED BY: Mark_Skyrme on 08/19/2009 10:06:14 original-itf wrote: At the event on the 5th September