Lowering the Barriers to

Inter-institutional Distance Legal

Education

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

What is Distance Legal Education?

• Obvious– Videoconference Courses– Web courses– Media by Mail

• Less Obvious– Co-teaching– Guest lecturers– Partial DLE– DLE “pieces”

• “Outside the Box”– LE for non-lawyers (for profit?)– LE for the public (public service)– Expanding Int’l opportunities

What is Distance Legal Education?

• Synchronous– Videoconferencing– Webcast– Chat– Conference call

• Asynchronous– Web-based materials– Lessons– Discussion (threaded, email, etc.)

– Offline Access

Course Design

Technology

Staffing

Costs

Scalability

Re-use

Why is DLE Interesting?

• Learning anytime, anywhere• Student-centered learning

model• Attuned to Net-Gen students• Attract or serve previously un-

servable students• Co-optition (cooperate & compete)

• New Markets/Revenue• …most important

Why is DLE Interesting?

REQUIRES FACULTY AND INSTITUTIONS TO EXAMINE THE LEARNING PROCESS

TO

…but, does Legal Education need to improve?

• Too expensive• Grads not ready for

practice• Faculty emphasize

scholarship - teaching excellence is not rewarded

• Other issues?

want

Law is more important than ever

• Law is more ubiquitous than ever• Law is non-violent war• Law is friction to business• Law is codified morality• Law is advocacy’s sharpest tool• Law practice is legal education for clients• …in short…

EVERYONE should be a lawyer!

Law is more important than ever

• We didn’t use to question our doctors…

• We didn’t use to know so much about computers

• “Legal Literacy” is the next big global/societal literacy wave

Why is DLE Interesting?

DLE as a Marketing Defense

• Online law schools succeeding• There are new for-profit law

schools in the US that challenge the traditional model of LE

• Legal education industry in bar reviews and supplemental materials

• Huge unmet demand for legal assistance

• Huge increases in SRLs and greater demand for A2J

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

DLE Case Study:

Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

DLE Case Study:

Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

What’s going on at Your Law School?

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

Barriers to DLE

• Institutional Interest• Aversion to Pioneering • Technical challenges• Finding the markets• Administrivia• Quality• Others?

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

• Address N x M Problem• Web services, tools,

databases, surveys, etc.• Training – maybe

• Bring to surface scattered interest

• Don’t have to start from scratch

• Applied Research

Lowering the Barriers

• Observe• Report• Disseminate• Facilitate• Innovate

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report– SWOT Exercise

• Closing Remarks

Progress Report

• 48 members• http://codec.cali.org• Presentations at 6 schools• Japan and Europe• Peter Martin’s DE on DLE• Videoconferencing Survey• Grades and Calendars• Classifieds• ClassCaster

Notre DameBoston CollegeRutgers-NewarkRutgers-Camden

Chicago-KentU Washington

Videoconferencing Survey

• 77 Responders• October 2004• 22% do not use VC• 17% use university computing or

media services for VC• 25% have NO VC facilities at

law school• 39% have roll-around units• 25% have perm-installed

seminar room for VC

Videoconferencing Survey

• 49% used VC for guest lecturers• 40% have used VC for a

semester-length course• 41% conducted NO course

related VC in FY03-04• 11% conducted several/week

course-related VC sessions• 34% used VC for student

interviews

Grades and Calendars

Classifieds

ClassCaster

• 20% own MP3 players (under 30)

• PodCasting = automatic download (like a mailing list)

• Classroom + Podcasting =ClassCasting

2. In class, play back the interview

1. Outside of class, call your interviewee and conference in ClassCaster

ClassCaster

3. After class, students can listen to the interview via the web or download to their MP3player

1. Register at CALI website

2. When class starts, Make a phone call

3. Teach the class

4. Students download to theiriPod or listen to the lecture via the web.

5. Faculty downloads and editsFor future classes, distance learning, etc.

=

Audio Legal Education Ideas

• Pre-recorded interviews with attorneys in current events cases

• “Phone in” lectures instead of canceling class

• Audio exam reviews• Director Commentary on Law Review

Articles• CALI Lecturettes

– Difficult concepts in <?>– Foundations of <?>– “This will be on the exam”

Agenda• Welcome, Dean Richard Matasar, NYLS

• What is DL and Why is it interesting to law schools?

• DLE Case Study: Professor Ellen Podgor, GSU

• Break

• DLE Case Study: Professor Michael Perlin, NYLS

• Attendee Testimonials

• Break

• If DLE is the Answer, What are the Questions? – What are the Barriers?

– How can we lower them?

– CODEC Progress Report

– SWOT Exercise• Closing Remarks

SWOTStrengths:• What are DLE/CODEC’s advantages?• What can DLE/CODEC do well?• What do other people see as DLE/CODEC’s strengths?

Weaknesses:• What could DLE/CODEC improve?• What does DLE/CODEC do badly?• What should DLE/CODEC avoid?

Opportunities:• Where are the good opportunities for DLE/CODEC?• What are the interesting trends for DLE/CODEC?

Threats• What obstacles does DLE/CODEC face?• What is the competition doing?• Are the required specifications for CODEC or DLE

changing?• Is changing technology threatening DLE/CODEC?

Lowering the Barriers to

Inter-institutional Distance Legal

Education CLOSING REMARKS