19910928mathura Satsvarupa Swami Meets Srila Bv Narayana Maharaja 1 3

7/31/2019 19910928mathura Satsvarupa Swami Meets Srila Bv Narayana Maharaja 1 3

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19910928MATHURA_SATSVARUPA_SWAMI_MEETS_RLA_BV_NARAYANA_MAHARAJA1_3

GBC:CanweasksomequesGons?

rlaGurudeva:YoucanaskandIcanansweruptomyknowledge;itmaybewrong,itmaybe

right.

PradyumnaPrabhu(GBC): ItseemstomethataerthedisappearanceofrlaPrabhupda,my

spiritualmaster,Iampu[ngmoretrustinthecaitya-guruwithin.Isthisnormaltodoaerthe

disappearanceofyourguruandhowcanwedeveloptheabilitytotakeguidancefromKain

theheartinordertohelpusserveourguru.Iwanttorespecttheadviceofmygodbrothers,but

theyhavemanydifferentopinions.So,Itrytosurrendermorealsotocaityaguru.Iwantedto

askyouaboutthat.

rlaGurudeva:Myopinionisthatguruisalwayswithin.Butwehavenotseen.Buthismercy

andhehimselfispresenttous,alwaysgivingmercy.So,Ineedtopraymoretoourbeloved

gurudeva.Heisalwayspresent.AsinthepresentGmeofyourgurudeva,youwereservingand

wanGngguidance.ThisGmealso,youshouldnotthinkthat,ourguruisnotpresent,sowe

shouldgotoourcaitya-guru.Caitya-guruisalways,anddkisalways,present.Sowhyshould

wenotgotoourdk-guru?Thereisnolacknessofdk-guru.Heisalwayspresent.Butwe

shouldpraytohimthatyoushouldrevealinourheart.Caitya-guru,withoutpraying,hewilldo

whathehastodo.AndheisKa,HeisalwayswanGngthatallmydearsshouldcometome.

Heishankeringtodomercy.So,Ithinkitisbeertopraytoourgurudevatorevealinourheart

andheshouldgiveproperguidanceinourhearthowwecouldservemoreandmoretohim.I

thinkitisproper.Andik-gurucando;whoisthemahanta-guru.Dk-guruisalsomahanta-

guruandik-guruisalsomahanta-guru.Ifonehasik-guruheshouldgotoik-guru,Gme

toGmeandtakeadvicewhattodohowtodo,howtoserveRdh-Kaandguru.Ithinkifwe

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areveryhonesttoourguruhewouldcertainlyandcertainlycomeinourheartandhewillmake

seeus.

GBC:ThatsaverysaGsfyingunderstanding.

rlaGurudeva:IseethatinrBhad-bhgavatmtathatthousandsandthousandsofyears,

lakhsandlakhsofyearshadpassed,butyetgurudevacomestoopa-kumara;orrmaG

Rdhiksendshernearanddearopa-kumaratoJnanaSarmaandtheyareeagertodomercy

uponthem.So,ifourgurudevaisinthatlevelandweareinthelevelofJnanaSarma,ortrue

devotees,Kaandgurudevawillsurelyhavemercyuponus.

WedontthinkthisquesGon.NotasingleGmethisquesGonhascometomymindbecauseI

havefullfaithinourguru.Ialwayspraymygurudeva,thatheshouldgivemehowIcanserve

him.Howhecanhaveparama-pururtha.Doyouknowthisterm?

GBC:Yes,lastgoal,yes.

rlaGurudeva:Yes,lastgoal.YesterdaywewerereadingrB had-bhgavatmta.rla

SantanaosvmistellingthatweprayforthedustoflotusfeetofKa;butnotonlythedust

ofthelotusfeetofKa.ThelotusfeetofKashouldhavekumkum;kumkumyouknow?The

colorthegopsusedtohaveontheirbreastandtheyhavekeptKaslotusfeetontheir

breastsandthatcolor,kumkum,hasaachedtoHislotusfeetandithasbeencoloredandthe

dustofthatcolorIwanttoputonmyhead.Thisisthelastparama-pururthaofanyjvaat

anyGme.Thereisnobeeranypururthatheforjvabeerthanthis.rlaSantanaosvm,

rlaRpaosvmandrRaghunthaDsaosvm(wantedtogivethis).So,gurudevaand

Kaarealsoeageralwaystogivethesethings,utmosthighestthings.Ifthejvahassomuch

qualificaGons,thenhecanhave,otherwisenot.Atleastthiswishshouldbeintheheartofany

sdhaka.

GBC:CanIaskanotherquesGon?IcametoseeyouinNanain1986andIaskedyouifitwas

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alrighttoadmittomydisciplesthatIhadmadesomemistakes.AtthatGmethemistakeswere

thatIwassi[ngonavyssanathesamelevelasrlaPrabhupdaandtakingabigGtlelike

gurupadaandsi[ngabovemyowngodbrothers.So,youtoldmethatifIadmiedthatthese

weremistakesmydiscipleswouldnotlosefaithinmebuttheywouldappreciatethehonestyas

humility.So,sincethenItriedtobeveryopenandhonestwithdisciplesandgodbrothersalso.If

IfeelsomeenvyorsomebadthingIadmitit;butsomeofmygodbrotherssaythatImay

misleaddisciplesifIamtooopen.ForexampleafewyearsagoIreadsomebooksbyChrisGan

saintssoratherthankeepitprivateItoldthatIamdoingthis.So,myquesGonisshouldthere

beaprivatelifethatshouldbekeptprivateandsecretorshouldasdhubeasopenaspossible

inregardtothingslikeadmi[ngmistakesbutalsorevealingyourmindandalso...uhyour

inGmaterealizaGons.WhatistherelaGonofthesecrecyandtruthfulness.

rlaGurudeva:Someprinciples,orsomethings,aresubjecttohideandsomethingsarefor

open.Weshouldalwaysthinkthatweshouldnotbeharmfulforlowersorsonsordisciples.As

wearepracGcingrgnuga-bhak=forexample,itshouldnotbeopentoall,itmustbekept

secret,onlytothosewhoarequalifiedpersonswecantellsomething.Notalloursphr=s,inner

realizaGons,shouldbetoldtothembecauseitmaycausetotheirfallness.Similarly,uhso

manythingscanbe...thatifwecantelleverythingtheyarenotintheposiGontotakeitina

beerwaysoweshouldkeepitsecret.Andsomethingwhichisgoodforthemaccordingto

theirgradewecantellthem.Andifyouandtheyareinthesamelevel,asafriendyoucantell

youmaynottell.Everythingwhichwerealizeshouldnotbetoldtoopenlyingeneralmass.

Alwaysweshouldbecarefulforthis.

apanasadhanakotainakohibejatakotai

InrCaitanya-caritmtaithasbeentoldthatyouarepracGcingbhak=-yogaandifyouhave

somerealizaGonsyoushouldnottellotherpersonsingeneralmassbecauseitwillbelike

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camphor;itwillevaporatelikecamphor;soyoumustthinkaboutthequalificaGonofiks,

whetheritisharmfulornot.Inmyidea,asvaiavashouldkeepsecretsomething,ithasbeen

told:sleeping,eaGng,drinking,bhajana,sadhanaIfanyoneinthegeneralmasswillsee,they

willthink,Oh,weareallthesame.So,itmayharmthem.Everythingshouldnotbetold.Ifitis

forbenefitofdisciples

GBC:Whataboutthebenefitoftheperson?Doesiteverbenefithimtodisclosesomething?

rlaGurudeva:Huh?

GBC:Youspeakofthebenefittothedisciples,whataboutthepersonwhoiswithholdingsomething?

SomeGmestobehonesthewillbenefitliketheoriginalGmewhenyousaid,Yes,tellyourdisciples

thatyoumadeamistake.So,thatGmeIdidntkeepasecret.

rlaGurudeva:Ifbykeepingsecretthatbenefitisthere,wecando.Butweshouldalwaysbe

carefulthatourheartandvyavahraandvicra,innerandouter,shouldbeone.Ehweshould

nothaveanyincorrectconnecGonwithalady.IfIhaveanyillicitconnecGonthenwewillhave

tohide.SoweshouldnothaveanyillicitconnecGonwithanyonesothatIwillhavetohide.So

weshouldnotdoanythingsothatwemayhavetohide.Onlybhajanaandsdhanashouldbe

there.

GBC:AndIhadsomequesGonsaboutrgnuga-bhak=.Uminsomeofthegauya-vaiava

sampradyastheypracGcergnuga-sdhanaevenwhenthediscipleisnotyetperfect.So,rla

Prabhupda,asIreadinhisbooks,heindicatesthistoo,tosomedegree,buthedoesntteachit

specificallyintermsofhowtoknowyoureternalrasawithKa.Um,thereisaanimpressionamong

thedevoteesinISKCON,manyofthem,mostofthemIwouldsay,thattoculGvatergnuga-bhak=is

notnecessaryinordertogobacktogodhead.Andtheythinklikethis:"Thisishowyoucangobackto

godhead:ifyouworkhardinISKCON,evenifyoudontknowwhatisyourrasawithKa ,youwillgo

toKaaerdeathandtheneverythingwillberevealedtoyouthen.Youalreadyhaveaspecificrasa

butyoudontknowit.Itwillbeawakenedwithinyoubyservicetoguru.

rlaGurudeva:Thisistomisguide,certainly.Andtotaunch(editor:unsureofmeaningof

taunch).Thisiscertainlyawrongsiddhnta.

GBC:Maybeenvioussiddhnta.

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rlaGurudeva:Thisshouldnotbetaught.Withoutrgnuga-bhak=wecannotgotoKa.

Certainly.Ifanyonedoesnotknowsambandha-jna,heisfullofanarthas,byservingandby

increasingincomeonecannotgoinko,koyearsandneverwillgotoKa;inmyopinion

andinstraopinion.Heshoulddobhak=.Thenitwillbeverycheaperforus.Thenatonce

Kaconcsciousness,leavingallthesethings;butIthinkthisistomisguide.Theyareruining

themselvesandallpersons.KaconsciousnessisforservingRdhandKa,notfor

ISKCON.ISKCONistoteachhowwecanserveRdhandKaandgurudeva.uruandKa

willnotteachapersonnottoservethemandtoserveISKCON.SoIdon'tthinkso.auya

VedntaSamiGorISKCON,oranything,istoserveKaandRdh.So,rgnuga-bhak=must

befollowed.WecertainlyfollowrlaRpaosvm.WithoutfollowingrlaRpaosvma

manwiththousandsandkrodaschanlivinginISKCONonly,havingnosambandha-jna,no

bhajana,hewillneverbuthewillfallatonce,like(person'sname)andallothers.

GBC:ThenIwanttoaskaboutthepracGceofrgnuga-bhak=.

rlaGurudeva:Ithinksomewillbeangrywithme.

GBC:Foryouranswer?(laughter)Maybe

rlaGurudeva:WhyaskingmethesequesGons?

GBC:Well,itisimportantbecausesomeGmeswhenweexpressinterestinRdhandKadevotees

saywell,thatistooelevatedforus.wejustanotherexpressionis.

rlaGurudeva:WhatisthedutyofISKCON?

GBC:TheysayjustworkinthesakrtanamovementandevenifyouhavematerialdesiresattheLord

Caitanyawillcomeandbringyoubacktogodhead.

rlaGurudeva:Ithink(laughter)thisistoteachpersonsanddevoteeshowtogetKa and

Rdh'sservice.ThisisthemainobjectofISKCONandthatiswhyrlaPrabhupda,your

gurudeva,wenttothewesterncountriesbytheorderofhisspiritualmaster.Therehavenoany

ambiGonotherthantoserve RdhandKaandCaitanyaMahprabhu.

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GBC:Butifyoudistributeabook,isntthatservingRdhandKa?Orcleanthetemple?

rlaGurudeva:(lightlaughter:hehe).Thiscanbegeneralsevsothatwecanteachtheworld

howtoserveKa,forthisitcanhelplikewearedoingjna,sacrifice.Wearebringingghee,

wood,bricks,sand,cement,thiscanbebringingallthesethingscollecGngallthesethingsmay

becalledsacrificebutitisnotsacrifice;svh"Iamgivingmyself,wholethingtothelotusfeet

ofKa."Thatissacrifice.Ifitisnotdone,bringinganddoingandlaboring,everythingisnot

sacrifice.Inthismanner,ifyouaredoingsakrtana-jnaforRdhandKatopleaseRdh

andKaortoserveRdhandKaCaitanyaMahprabhu,thenifanyoneiscleaningthe

floor,notcleaning,heisalsocleaningthevicanaofanyvaiava,itisbhak=.

GBC:Vicana?

rlaGurudeva:Latrine,likeNaroamadsahkuracleanedthelatrineofhisgurudeva

GBC:Ohyes...

rlaGurudeva:So,anything,anyacGvityorendeavororgestureorprana,mana,vacana,

anuklaforKa,itiscalleduambhak=.Notonlysakrtana,sakrtanaisbest,nama-

sankirtana,butanything,anywish,anymentalthing,anyacGon,eitherphysicalormental,will

bebhak=,

GBC:Ifthebhava...

rlaGurudeva:ifbhak=isthere.Andtoreadbhgavataandtoservearcanawillbeagainst

bhak=ifyouaregoingagainsttheprinciples;Ifyouaredoingarcanaifyouaredoing

bhgavata-kathyouarepreachingforyourself,orwifeandchildren,thenitwillbeagainst

bhak=.Toreadbhgavataandtodoarcanaalso.So,itdependsonthisheart.So,Ithinkthatwe

mustfollowrlaRpaosvmhe(rlaPrabhupda)hascometopreachtheprinciplesofrla

Rpaosvm,riCaitanyaMahprabhu,rlaSvarpaDamodaraosvmandRmnanda

Ryaonly.Andforthebeerment(ofsociety)heestablishedISKCONtopreachtheserviceof

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RdhandKaCaitanyaMahprabhu.Iftheyarenotpreachingcorrectlyweshouldleaveat

oncethissociety.Andiftheyaredoingserviceweshouldallthank.Ialsothink,Iaminthe

auyaVedntaSamiG,inamomentwhenIwillseethattheyarenotservingKaIwillat

onceleavethisauyaVedntaSamiG.IhavenotcometoseeauyaVedntaSamiG,butI

havecometoseethattheyareallservingtoKaandRdh.rlaRpaosvmhaswrienin

rBhakG-rasmta-sindhu-bindu,Ujjvala-nlamaiandothers,howajva,acondiGonedsoul,

cancometowardsKaandcanachievethehighestthinghighestserviceofRdhandKa.

So,wecertainlymustadoptallthesethings.IftheyareadopGnganddoingweshouldcertainly

followISKCON;butiftheyarenotwecanthinkmore.

Onethingalso,youhavequesGon?Whatrpnuga-vaiava?

GBC:Inthegauya-vaiavasampradyadotheypracGcergnuga-sdhanaeveninthe

intermediateorneophytestage?

rlaGurudeva:Herewecanseethatwhetherheisawretchedperson,hehasnoability,heisa

roenperson,butyethehasgreedbythegraceofarasikavaiavabyreadingrmad

BhgavtamandbyhearingrmadBhgavtamheisabletodorgnuga-bhajana.Someone

maysaythatheisnotpious,hissoulisnotpure,hehasnosatya,sama,dhamaandallthese

qualiGes,heishankeringaerwomen,doyouunderstand?Andhehassomebadsocietyor

anything.LikeBilvamagalahkura,hewasnotagoodperson,butanyhowhehadagreedby

themercyofKaHimselfasacaityaguru,orbythegraceofCintmaiwhoalwaysusedto

doverysweetsongsaboutKaandRdh;andbyhisgurudeva,Somagiri.Anyhowhehas

greedandthatgreedinaveryroencondiGonyethewentsohigh.Thereshouldbegreed

andthisisavailabilityfordoingrgnuga-bhajana.Whetherheisawretchedpersonornotor

heisapuresouloranythingonlyheshouldhavegreed,andthatgreedshouldbeactual

greed.Thenhecandorgnuga-bhajanaandbybhajanahisallthingswillbeclean.Inrmad

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Bhgavtam

vikrita vraja-vadhbhir ida ca vio

raddhnvito 'nuuyd atha varayed ya

bhaktim par bhagavati pratilabhya kma

hd-roga v apahinoty acirea dhra

[Anyone who faithfully hears or describes the Lords playful affairs with the young gopis of

Vrndavana will attain the Lords pure devotional service. Thus he will quickly become sober andconquer lust, the disease of the heart.

(Srimad-Bhagavatam, 10.33.39)]

Atfirstbhak=comesandalltheseevilthings(goaway);butgreedmustbepureandqualified

andactualgreedrealgreed.

GBC:MayIaskmoreaboutthat?Imetapersonrecently,hisnameisaddharaprahewasadisciple

ofLalitPrasda,thesonofrlaBhakGvinodahkura.SohewasinISKCONthenhele.Hewastelling

methatinhissampradya,now,theypracGcergnuga-sdhana.HesaidinISKCONyouonlypracGce

vaidhi-bhak=youhavetopracGcesdhanaevenwhenyouarenotperfectbuttobringthisgreed.So,

theyhavethispraliandtheymediateonKasaa-klya-llsohewasadvocaGngorpreaching

thatyoushouldbringthisintoISKCON.

rlaGurudeva:No,weshouldnotfollowthat.WeknowLalitPrasda,hehasnogreedhe

hasonlykma.So,PrabhupdaBhakGsiddhntaSarasvahkura,knowingthis,herefused

thatperson.Weknowthesethingsandourgurudevaalsorefusedthatperson.

GBC:Whatwouldbeouranswerthough?WhatisourpracGceofrgnuga-sdhanaifnotwhatthey

do?

rlaGurudeva:Wearedoingsdhanabhak=,vaidhibhak=.

GBC:Weare.

rlaGurudeva:Bydoingthisandbythegraceofguruandaurga,oranyrasikavaiava,

wewillhearthepasGmesofKa.Itisnotsure,butwehopethatwewillhavecertainlygreed.

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Andthenwewillbeadvanced.Wewillnotfollowsahajiyvaiava.Thisshouldcomefrom

upperside.Notascending,itshouldbedescendingfromvaiavaorKajnaorfromKa.

AsrlaRpaosvmhastold,theyaredistribuGngrgnuga-bhajana.Devoteesarenotgoing

andtheyhavenogreedtoserveRdh-KabuttheyaredistribuGng.Adevoteemusthave

greedthentheyshouldbetold.Theyshouldbemercified.ButtheyhavenotseenthatIhave

alsonogreedandthesediscipleshavenogreedandtheyaredistribuGnglikefruits.Thisisnot

right.

GBC:Notsocheap.

rlaGurudeva:Notsocheap.

Weshouldnotfollowwecannotfollowthesethings.Ihaveseensomanypersonshavebeenruined.

Thisgreedwilltakethismanveryupper,likerlaVivanthaCakravarhkura,Jvaosvm,

NaroamadsahkuraandrlaBhakGvinodahkura.Howelevated.Soweshouldalwaysdowhat

ourguruhastold.WhatrlaRpaosvmhastoldJvaosvm,rlaVivanthaCakravarhkura,

rlaBhakGvinodahkura,rlaPrabhupda,ourgurudeva,wemustfollow.Wehavesiddhapranali,

theyhavenosiddhipranali.

GBC:Wehavesiddhipranali?

rlaGurudeva:Certainly.

td api su-ncena

taror via sahiun

amnin mna-dena

krtanya sad hari

["One who thinks himself lover than the grass, who is more tolerant than a tree, and who does

not expect personal honor yet is always prepared to give all respect to others can very easily al-ways chant the hold name of the Lord"

( di 17.3, Antya 6.239, Antya 20.21)]

Thisissiddhapranli.Theyarenotfollowingallthesepranali.Theyaretakingbycheap,very

cheap.Withoutbeingso.BygatheringsomanyladiesandbypracGcing.LikerRaghuntha

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Dsaosvm,rlaaurakioraDsaBbjMahrja,howvairgyamrga.ButIthinkrla

BhakGsiddhntaSarasvahkuraandrlaBhakGvinodahkuratheyaremorevairgya

mrgathanrlaaurakioraDsaBbjMahrja.Inmyopinion.

GBC:Morevairgya.

rlaGurudeva:Morevairgya.Butthisrequiressomeheartandmindtoknowthesethings.

Anythingmore?

GBC:Ihaveapersonalrequest.IwantedtoaskyourpermissionifIcouldbegintoworshipthe

ovardhana-sil.

rlaGurudeva:Youhaverequestedme?

GBC:IamrequesGngyou.

rlaGurudeva:Firstyouhaverequestedme?

GBC:First?NowIam.Neverbefore.

rlaGurudeva:(unintelligible)WhatshouldIdo?

GBC:DoesthatmeanIcangototheovardhanahillandtakeonestone?

rlaGurudeva:Mypermissionyouwant.(unintelligible)guru....

rlaGurudeva:Ifyoulikeyoucando.

GBC:DoesthatmeanIcangotothegovardhanahillandtakeonestone?

rlaGurudeva:Ifbythepermissionofguruji.Whyyouarenotgoingtowardsbhva-bhak=?

GBC:WhyIamnot...?

rlaGurudeva:Followingorgoingtowardsbhavabhak=

GBC:IthinkmaharajithinksworshipingovardhanawillbringhiminthatdirecGon.

GBC:Icannotunderstandwhyheaskedatthatpoint.

rlaGurudeva:YoushouldknowHindiorBengalibecauseIcan'texpressfullymyideasothere

aresomerlaRpaosvm...rlaBhakGvinodahkura,whathashedone?Thelastsaptam

gosvm,whathashedone?

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GBC:rlaBhakGvinodahkura?WhatarehisacGvies?

rlaGurudeva:Yes,towardsarcana.

GBC:Iknowhewrotemanybooks.

rlaGurudeva:No,whatacGviGeshashedonetowardsarcana.Heusedtodoarcana?

GBC:IdontknowhisarcanaacGviGes.

rlaGurudeva:rlaaurakioraDsaBbjMahrja,heusedtodoarcana?

GBC:ChanGng

rlaGurudeva:No,no,no.heusedtodoarcanaornot?

GBC:Idontknow.

rlaGurudeva:Youdontknow?Yourgurudeva,usedtodo arcanaornot?GBC:Notpersonally,no.

rlaGurudeva:Notpersonally?

GBC:InthetemplesheinstalledmanydieGes,arc-vigraha.No,notvery.forafewyears.

rlaGurudeva:Always?

GBC:No

rlaGurudeva:Likeyouaregoingtodo?Youwanttotakeovardhana- silandwhenyoutakeityouwillhavetoalwaysdoarcana.Youwillhavetodo?Orwillyougiveittoanydevotee?

GBC:No.

rlaGurudeva:Yourgurudevahasdonelikethis?

GBC:No,maybenot.

rlaGurudeva:Whyhehasnotdone?

GBC:WhyhedidnotpracGcearcana?Idontknowhismind,butyoumightsayhewas

rlaGurudeva:TherearetwokindsofsevtoRdh-Ka,onebyarc-vigraha,bywaterand

flowersandallthesethingsandotherisbhva-sev,bhva-pupa.Bhvaistheirflowersand

loveistheirwater.Theireinner bhvasareupta-karanasofsev internalingredients.They

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havedonelikeso.

GBC:Yes,thatwastheir arcana.

rlaGurudeva:So,thearcanaofrRaghunthaDsaosvmwasnotarcanabutitwas

bhva-sev.Howsev?WhenheseesovardhanaheatoncegoesinnerandseesRdhand

Ka.HeonlypraystoovardhanawithtulasthatIshouldserveRdhandKaandonlythe

llsinRdh-kuainmid-day.Thisisbhva-sev.WhathehaswrieninVilapa-kusumanjali

orallotherprayersinVraja-vilasa-stavaheusedtomentallyallthesesevs.RdhandKais

thereandheisseeingthat,"Iampreparinggarlands,tambule,camphor,chandan,aguruandso

manythingsandgivingattheneedGmeincertainsev.Hewastryingtodo.Butwearenotso

high.So,weshoulddothisarcanaalso.So,youcan,ifyouwant,youcando.Butyoushould

alwaystrytoenterinbhva-sev,prayingbyueringthelokasofVilapa-kusumanjali,Vraja-

vilasa-stava,rUpademta,Caitanyaikakaallthesethings.

GBC:Notjusttheouterformalityofarcana.

rlaGurudeva:Ithinkthatifeveryperson,havingamoodthatIshouldworshipirirjawith

me,whetherIaminWesterncountriesorSoutherncountriesorhitherandthither,andif

everyonewilltakeeverysilofirirja,thenwhatwillbethecondiGonofovardhana

(Laughing)?Therewillbenosignofirirjaovardhana.So,ithasbeentoldinthePuras

thatifyouwanttotakeitkeepanequalweightingoldthereandthenyoushouldtake;And

(only)bytheorderofyourspiritualmasterorinhisabsencethereshouldbeanyhighgradeof

vaiava.So,manyovardhana-silsandnewdevotees,theyareveryfondofworshipping

irirjaovardhana.Theybroughtwithouttellinganyonetheybroughtfromthere.Andaer

two,three,fourmonths,therecomesanydisturbanceoranything,theykeepitherewithout

(breakintape)

Nma-sakrtanashouldbefollowedandserviceinheart.Ifthesearetwoeverythingis

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thereandifnottherenothingisthere.rHari-bhakG-vilasaisforghastha-bhaktanotfor

(unintelligible)andinthisrHari-bhakG-vilasa,arcana,sacrificeandallthesethingsarethere.

AndthenaerreadingrHari-bhakG-vilasainghastha.(breakintape)theyshouldobeyall

thesethingsandiftheyarematuretheyshouldreadallthesethingsandtheyshouldbevairg-

vaiavaandfollowbhva-sevandfollowrlaRpaosvmandallothers.Anythingmore?

GBC:No.thankyou.

rlaGurudeva:Inmywordings,whatisfavorableforyou,youcantakeit,andwhatis

unfavorableyoushouldreject.TamalK aprabhuwantedtotakeoneovardhana-silfor

Texas.

GBC:Iheard.Averybigone.

rlaGurudeva:Hetoldthat,Youtshouldgiveme. Itoldthat,"Iwillnotgive,youcantake.The

responsibilitywillbeuponyou.Ifanythinggoesagainstandnotinservice;aerfiyyearsifhehasno

gooddisciple,abledisciple,thatdisciplewilltakeirirjaovardhanaandwillthrowinthesea.We

shouldthinkforabhiekaalso.

GBC:Yes

rlaGurudeva:Areyouthinkingaboutworshippingirirja-ovardhana?

GBC:No,nowIamthinkingaboutit.Iamnotsoeager.

rlaGurudeva:IfyouaresoeagerIamnotgoingtodisturbyou.Youcantakealileandserve.

GBC:Yourwordsmakemethink,Ihavetothinkmore.

rlaGurudeva:(breakintape)...SarasvaGandyourgurudeva,mygurudeva,ehwerenotina

moodthatinthispresentGmeallarehankeringforrgnuga-bhak=.Theywantedthatina

properwayweshouldgo.Byrealbhak=vaidhi-bhak=weshouldgo.Andifgreedcomes,itis

somuchbeer.Somuchbeer.SoBhagavn.Butwithoutgreedwesholdnotthinkallthese

pas[mes.Itshouldcomeinproperway.AgreedbypracGcewillnotcome,byreadingitwillnot

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come.Ilovealady.IsawaladyandIlovedher.Noreason,nothing.Sotheserviceofbytheir

gopsorsakhatheyhearingthepasGmesandbypastsaskra.Doyouknowsaskra?

GBC:Previousimpressionsintheheart.

rlaGurudeva:Bythatagreedcomes.ByanyacGviGes,greedcannotcome.Itwillcomeitself.

ButbytheassociaGonofarasikavaiavaandhearingthell-kathbyrasikavaiava.

Withoutarasikavaiavaitwillnotcome.IfKadoesmercyHewilldothroughtherasika

vaiava.See.Andifarasikavaiavasoncomeshecannotadoptit,otherwisewehaveno

saskra.Wewillnotrecognizehim,"Whoishe?".So,weshouldfollowfaithfullyvaidhi-

bhak=.Theprinciplesofvaidhi-bhak=andrgnuga-bhak=oftheheartarenotdifferent,they

arethesamesame

r-prahrda uvca

ravaa krtana vio

smaraa pda-sevanam

arcana vandana dsya

sakhyam tma-nivedanam

iti pusrpit viau

bhakti cen nava-laka

kriyeta bhagavaty addh

tanmanye 'dhtam uttamam

["Prahlda Mahrja said: 'Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qual-ities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Viu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the

Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayersto the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord's one's best friend, and surrendering

everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words)these nine

processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the serviceof Ka through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for hehas acquired complete knowledge.'"

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(SB 7.5.23-24, Madhya 9.259-260)]

or

sdhu-saga, nma-krtana, bhgavata-ravaa

mathur-vsa, r-mrtira raddhya sevana

["One should associate with devotees, chant the holy name of the Lord, hearrmad-Bhga-vatam, reside at Mathur and worship the Deity with faith and veneration."

(Madhya 22.128)]

(Theyareboththe)sameinvaidhi-bhak=andsameinrgnuga-bhak=,butthemoodsare

different;thinkingandhearingandchanGngaredifferent.Invaidhi-bhak=Prahlda-charitra,

Uddhava-sambandha,notSandesh,Uddhava-sambandhainthe11thCanto,DevahuG-Kapila

sambandha,(another)asuraandallotherthings.Theseareanuklaforvaidhi-bhak=.So

ravaathisshouldbeso.Anyrgnuga-ravaaisanother(unintelligble)rCaitanya-

caritmta,rmadBhgavatamtenthcanto,thebooksofrlaRpaosvm,rlaSantana

osvm,andallthosethings,Jayadevaosvm,alltheseaccordingtoourgreed.Krtana,

krtanaisthesame,butthatkrtana,vaidhi-bhak=-krtana,thekrtanaofNaroamadsa

hkuraandrlaBhakGvinodahkuraandallothers,wasprimaryaragaG,Kalyana

Kalpataruandallthosethings.Wecandokrtanaofalltheseandinrgnuga,Naroamadsa

hkura'sLalasamayi,andAnuragamayiandallthese.So,wewillhavetofollowthevaidhi-

bhak=alsoandifheisrgnugaheshouldfollowalsotheprinciplesofvaidhi-bhak=.

rlaBhakGvinodahkurahaswrien

vaidhi-bhak=rakajane/sva-vinotaratna-gane/raga-margekarena-pravesa/(unknownverse)"those

whowillheartlyfollowtheprinciplesofvaidhi-bhak=,heartlyheshoulddo,thenKaandKa's

servantswilldopravesainrgnuga-mrga;bytheirmercythatdevoteewillenterinrgnuga.

(Breakintape.Tapebecomeunclearaerminute54.00)

rlaGurudeva:Thesearefivebooks.rBhakG-rasmta-sindhu-bindu,Ujjvala-nlamai,rBhad-

BhgavatmtaandRga-vartma-candrik.Thosewhowanttobegaudiyavaisnava,caitany

mahaprabhutaught,theyshouldadoptbindukirankarandRga-vartma-candrik.WhatmeansRga-

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vartma-candrik?Rga-vartma-candrik:ChandrikaiscomingfromRdhandKaanditismaking

signingthewayofrag.

GBC:IreadsomethingyouspokeinEnglishandhetypedonthat.LikeatranslaGon.Verywonderful.

rlaGurudeva:Madhura-kanameaning,doyouknowthemeaning?DoyouknowHindi?GBC:Uhshowerofnectar?

rlaGurudeva:Mdhurya,mdhurya-rasa,andifrainsnectar,thisnectarcomesfromri

CaitanyaMahprabhuandcomestorlaVivanthaCakravar hkuraandfromhimthe

showerofnectarcomes.Thesefivebookstocommentary,withcommentary.Thiskindwith

comment.

GBC:Youhavebegun?

rlaGurudeva:Notnow,butIwant.VmanaMahrjaandallothermembersaretellingmeto

translaterCaitanya-caritmtaandrlaVivanthaCakravarhkura'sitaandrmadBhgavatam

somebutIhavenoGmeatalltodoallthesethings.ItrequiresalotofenergywhichIhavenotalotof

energyoranything.Icoulddoitbutaverypreciousthing.

GBC:DisGlltheessenceofeverything;allthebigworksarecomingintorecourseofrlaVivantha

Cakravarhkura.

GBC:Maharaja,lastGmeyouspoketomeyouencouragedmetopracGcearcanainside,notexternal

arcana;Iwanttolearnmorehowtodothatinternalarcana.ToomanyyearsIhavebeendoingexternal.

rlaGurudeva:YoucanconGnuebutyoushouldalsodolikeourgosvms.

GBC:IfIamchanGngmeanstosayHareKa/HareKaistheexternalpartbutwhatisinternal?

ThinkofKa?

rlaGurudeva:Somanythings.Alltheseareexternal.ChanGngharinmaandbeinginVndvana

inRdh-kuainespecially...andpraying,notnow,youshouldthinkbutyoushouldpraythatwe

shouldhaveit.IthasbeenwrienhereinrBhakG-rasmta-sindhu-bindu.Bhajan-aga...

GBC:...Bhajana-aga,partsofraganuga...

rlaGurudeva:Thosewhowanttoenter,thosewhoyetnotenter,buttheywant,theyhavesome

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greed.reedhasnoreason.Itdoesnotrequireanyreasonwhy.reedisgreed.SeeingbeauGfuldieGes

ofRdh-Kaverylovely,inthemoodofdieGesorhearingthepasGmesofKabyvaiavas;upper

roomwehavevery(details)regardingrmadBhgavatamespeciallythetenthcantoandthebooksof

gosvms.Wecanhaveit.Thenweshoulddotoquenchourgreed.Thiscanbefoundonlyinstraorin

theheartofvaiavas.Thesearethefivekindsofreasonsofhowtoenter.Tatatbhavamaiya .Tat

bhavamaiya,doyouknow?Bhavamaiyasomearebhva-sambandhrelatedtobhva.Somearebhva-

maiymeansnta,dsya,sakhyavtsalyaandmdhuryabhva-maiy.Wewillhavetochoseupon

whatourdutyis;accordingtothat.WewillthinkKaandHisassociatesofthatbhva.Sothisisbhva-

maiyandbhva-sambandh,relatedtothatbhva

GBC:HearingandchanGng.

rlaGurudeva:Iamexplainingandsatbhavaanukulatatbhavaanukinotadverseand

somearetatabhavapra=kulaweshouldnotadoptandforcedweshouldadopt.Amongthese,

tothinkaboutdsya,sakhya,vtsalyaandhavinggreedtoenteramong.Weshouldalways

thinkaboutKaandHisassociateslikeifwewantmdhurya-rasawewillhavetofollowRpa-

majarandallothersandalwayschanGngandremembering,Oh,Ka.Thesearebhva-

maiy.Theprema-kalpa-taruallthesebhvasright?Alwaysthinkingandworshiplikethislike

rasikamood.Inmorningyouaresi[ng,about6or5,thinking:

IamgoingtoYamun,Ke-gh a,andIamtakingbathandinsvaran-karnasIamtaking

bath,ingoldenpot,likeIndians,andIamalsosakhya,sakhyameansSudhama,orIam

vtsalya,orIamYaod'sverynearanddearorIamanydsofRdh.Ihavebroughtwater

fromtherefromRdh-kua,Mnas-gaga,orwaterfromangesnearVarkana-ghata.In

frontofMypur,infrontofwhereriCaitanyaMahprabhuplayeddrumsandIamK a.He

willgiveyouvarkanasothatifyouworshipmeIwillgiveyouwordsthatyouwillhavevery

beauGfulhusbandandifyoudontworshipmeyourhusbandwillbeoldone,veryblackish.So,

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thisisVarkana-vata.Very,verynearanddeartoriCaitanyaMahprabhu.Orany ghaof

NavadvpawhereriCaitanyaMahprabhuusedtoplaywithboysandtotakebathinanges.

FromthereIwilltake.

ButinKallitisverygoodtotakebathinYamun,orMnas-gagaorRdh-kua,

yma-kua,mana-sarovaraorprema-sarovaraandotherplaces.Ifyouwanttoworshipas

thegopsanddoarcanahowarcana?IfyoucangotoJavana,itisverygood.rmaGRdhik

isthere.Youshouldmakebathforherthere,asifIambathinganddoingarcanaifyouwantyou

canhaveaverygoldentemple,whereRdh-Kaarethere.Iamcookingmyself.Aerdoing

arcananotsoandgivingtoRdh-Kaandaerdoingra=andotherthingsatlastgiverest.

When,aergivingflowers,pupa-ajali,andwecanagainalltheGmereadKaanddoall

thesethings.Thesearebhvaa;accordingtoourbhvaandaccordingtoGmeweshoulddoall

thesethings.PerhapsyouhaveheardthestoryinPadma-Pura,oranyPuras,thatthere

wasamanwhowenttohearrmadBhgavatam,oranyPura,andhewashearingthat

Purasastory,thattherewasa brhmaawhowantedtodoarcanaofNryaabutactually

hehadnomandiranoanything.Thatbrhmaaheardthatmentallywecandoarcana.So,

hearingheprayedhow.Aertakingbathhesatdownfacingeastandbegantodo arcana.He

wenttoanges,tookbathinanges,hebroughtwaterincolors.Intemple.Templewasgolden.

Dietywasveryshining.NryaaandLakm.Hedidarcanabymind.Andaerthathewentto

cookroomandcookedsweetriceandtookitinagoldencupbutitwas,what?Heputhis

fingertoseeifitwassowarmornot;butitwassowarmandwhenheputitinhisfingerhis

fingerhadablister.InVaikuhaNryaabegantolaugh.Lakmsaid,Whyareyou

laughing?Hesaid,Inthattri-lokaoneofmydevoteeshasgivenmesweetriceandheputhis

fingerintheretoseehowhowitwasandhisfingerhasbeenburnedandhehasablister.She

said,Iwanttoseethatdevotee.Nryaathentoldthatdevotee,"Youwillhavetogoto

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Vaikuha."

Sobyminditcanbedoneandallouraa-klya-llsmaraaisaccordingtothis.Ifamandoes

allthesethingsthenthismeansourhandisoutofindriya.Mindisindriya,sowewillhavemore

thingsbydoinghandsthanby.Becauseitisthethingofallindriya.So,asmaraawantsone.

IfmindissamaanditisinimmersedinKaconsciousnessitisbeerthanouterindriyasoour

gosvmshavediscoveredallthesethingstoworshipRdhandKa.So,thiscanbedone.All

thethingswearedoingbyindriyawecandoitbymindalso.Wecangoinaplacewhereall

thesethingsarentavailablebutbyminditisalwayspossible.Amancanstealallthesethings.

Theycantakevigrahaalso,buttheycannotstealourmind.So,riCaitanyaMahprabhuhasby

mindalsosomuchsuperior.Butweshoulddoalsobytheseindriyaalso.Andforkalikala

chanGngofnamaandrememberingthepasGmesitismoresuperior

GBC:Moresuperiorthan?

rlaGurudeva:...thanotherpracGcing.ChanGngofnameandrememberingofpasGmesof

Kaandtheirparikaraismoresuperior.AndthatshouldbeourulGmategoal.So,hehas

wrienhowsambandh-bhva-maiyatfirst.Whatisthemeaningofbhva-maiy?Bhva

meanstorememberKaandhisassociatesinopla-mantrasvahagopijanasvahathis

isbhvawhichwearegoingtotakeorwearegoingtoKathisisbhva.

GBC:ThewaywewishtoworshipKa.

rlaGurudeva:...andRdhikgopjanavallabha.Kaisvallabhaofgops.NowIamgiving

myselfasagopandkeepingthatgopvallabhaisourvallabha.Thisbhvaissvaha;svameans

myselfhameanswearegivinginpurnamur=.Purnamur=youknow?Meansinsacrificewegive

allthings.So,wearegivingmyselfinthelotusofgopsandvallabhaasmyvallabha.rmaG

RdhikisourworshipfuldietyandwearemaidservantsofrmaGRdhik.Sohisvallabhawill

bemyvallabhaandherbhvaismybhva.Now,Iamgivingeverythingtothelotusfeetr

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RdhikandgopjanavallabhaKa.Thisisbhva-maiyparamadhurarsa.Subalaand

rdhamaandtheirbhvaarebhva-sambandh-maiy.Understandsomething?

GBC:Yes,Ido.

rlaGurudeva:Bhva,bhva-maiy,andnowbhva-sambandh.Fromshelterofguru

padapadmafromtheretoikanddk,both,andaerthatikanddkmeans

everythingcomesandthenvisvama-henagurosevmeanswithbhva,weshouldserveKa

withgurudevakeepingveryaway,fearthatheismostsuperiorandIammostwretched.Being

onthesamelevelIamverynearanddearthisiscalledvisvam-bhva.Visvama-henaguro

sev whathewants,weshoulddo.Weshouldalwaysbeinamoodthatweshouldmaketo

hisorderwithheartthisisvisvama-henagurosev.

Theseareten,tenof64.Thesearebhva-sambandha-gitatheywerebhva,bhva-maiyand

bhvasambandha. Withoutthiswecannotenter.Rememberingofgurudevaisnot

rememberingofKabutyetrememberingofgurudevainspiteofgurudevabutgurudeva

knows.

nikuja-yno rati-keli-siddhyai

y ylibhir yuktir apekany

tatrti-dkd ati-vallabhasya

vane gurorcararavindam

[rGurudeva is always present with the sakhs, planning the arrangements for the perfection ofyugala-kiora's amorous pastimes (rati-keli) within the kujas of Vndvana. Because he is so ex-pert in making these tasteful arrangements for Their pleasure, he is very dear to rRdh andKa. I offer prayers unto the lotus feet ofri Gurudeva.

(rGuruaakam 6)]

Youknowthemeaning?

GBC:ThespiritualmasterisassisGngthegopsintheirarrangementsforRdh-Ka

rlaGurudeva:

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r-rdhik-mdhavayor apra-

mdhuray-ll-gua-rpa-nmnm

prati-kasvdana-lolupasya

vane gurorcararavindam

[At every moment rGurudeva is experiencing intense greed in his heart to tast the unlimitedsweetness of the holy names, forms, qualities, and pastimes ofrRdh-Mdhava in Vnd-vana. I offer my prayers unto the lotus feet ofrGurudeva.

(rGurvaakam 5)]

ToremembergurudevameanstorememberwhatourgurudevadoesthesevofKaandr

RdhikandgopsinVndvana.Thatshouldberequired.Itisveryhelpfulforgoinginprema-

salbidra,kalpa-vrksa.Thisisbhva-sambandhandasragatmika-bhaktadoesinVraja.Timeto

Gmeallthesesevyoushouldremember.Thisiscalledbhva-sambandh. AndEkda,

Janmam,KrGkka-vrata.Youshouldgiveupenjoymentofallmaterialthings.Tulasiastata

samanvaiavasamana;allthesearebhva-anukla;weshoulddo.Andnamacha,malawith

=lakaallarebhva-avirudha,thesearenotagainstourbhvasotheyshouldbeacceptedand

bhava-vrta;thatisRukmi-bhava,Rukmiarcanaandallthethingswhicharenotanuklafor

ourbhvatheyshouldberejectedwhetherthesearebhak=among64yettheywillhavetobe

rejected.

GBC:Noharmifwegivethemup.

GBC:Mustgivethemup.

rlaGurudeva:Yes.

Endtape.

transcribed:September2011byDevanandadasa(DominickInglese)

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19910928mathura Satsvarupa Swami Meets Srila Bv Narayana Maharaja 1 3