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8/12/2019 1990 Issue 5 - A Telephone Conversation With R.J.
Rushdoony - Counsel of Chalcedon
1/3
A TELEPHONE CONVERSATION
WITH
DR R
J
RUSHDOONY
Most
of us are familiar withR J Rushdoony, the
theologian, and his very important and instructive
writing and commentaries. The Counsel asked Mr.
Rushdoony to allow a small glimpse into his life
behind his reputation - his daily work and the support
of
his wife, Dorothy. Married couples and
individuals reading this interview wil l
be
encouraged
in their own efforts to
honor
God and advance His
Kingdom in their daily
1i
ving.
Q. What was Mrs. Rushdoony's opinion
about starting the Chalcedon Foundation
and how has she been involved in this
work?
A Dorothy always has been involved in
my work
and she felt as strongly as I that the church needed to
be awakened. The church has retreated from the
world. One of the things that marks the Reformed
Faith, historically, is that nothing has had a greater
impact
on
culture,
or
the world around it, than
the
Reformed Faith, but in our time it has become largely
irrelevant and pietistic. Dorothy felt, as I do, that
something had to be done to awaken the Reformed
community so she was 100% with
me
in starting the
work. That meant a real dedication to the cause on
her part. f I had taken a small church of say,
40
or
50
members, I would have, for the first
10
years
or
so of Chalcedon's history, done far better fmancially.
But, she felt as I did, that I had to be free from
other
duties to be able to concentrate on
my
writings
primarily, and then secondarily, speaking.
Q.
Give
us some insight into some of the
ways that she has supported, participated,
and has actually been a part of the work at
Chalcedon.
A Dorothy
is
an omnivorous reader. Long before
we started Chalcedon she was reading Calvin and
Van Til and she
read Van Til the way
some
people
L
read the comic strips - with delight
and
with ease
So, clearly, she saw the basic issues and was
emphatic that they had to be addressed.
It
was, to a
great extent, her urging and prompting,
that
fmally
led me to take the steps
that
led to the formation of
Chalcedon. It
was
an act of faith and it still is. We
are totally dependent on what the people out there
(who don't see us) send in
Q
When did you form Chalcedon
Foundation?
A I think, legally,
we
created
it in
1964, but
we
did not begin operation until September
of
1965.
So, this year we have been
in
existence 25 years.
Q
What would you consider your biggest
accomplishment with the Chalcedon
Foundation
at
this point?
A I believe the primary accomplishment has been
to wake up people to the totality
of
Scripture's
requirements
of
us. People have
too
long gone
to
the Bible
with only
a few things in mind. They read
it
pietistically.
One
of
the fmest pastors I
knew
as a
young
man
was an elderly man, a Princeton
graduate, who had studied under the younger
Hodge
and Warfield, and yet
over
the years, he had
allowed his preaching
to
narrow down
to
the Gospel
of John and a
few
other things and he was endlessly
iterating the same theme. His preaching
had
become
very limited, but he
was
a very remarkable man,
gracious, thoughtful, a delight
to be
around, and yet
he had a very small gospel. He had a smaller Bible,
in
some respects, than most modernists.
That
distressed me greatly because I thought highly of the
man; and I realized that this is what had happened to
the church.
The
Bible
had
become a very small book
limited; essentially, to those scriptures dealing with
salvation
and
with the devotional life. That warps
the theme. It limits it severely.
AND
GENE MIKELL
The Counsel of Chalcedon
une
1990 Page 13
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8/12/2019 1990 Issue 5 - A Telephone Conversation With R.J.
Rushdoony - Counsel of Chalcedon
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Q.
In
the light of things you have just said
about Scripture, what would you say to a
husband
and
wife about how they can work'
together, as you
and
Dorothy have done, to
grow in God's grace
and
seek the biblical
standards set for a husband
and
wife?
A. First of all, God's calling is for a
of us
.
individually and together, so that a couple's calling
is a very real thing. They are, together,
to
serve and
to glorify God. Nowhere is the opportunity greater,
I believe, for that than in a ministry because the
minister's wife is isolated, to a great extent, from
people by her husband's callirig. She is invplved in
his calling
in
a way that very few other wives are. .
But whether
it
is a minister or rt engineer, I think
it
is very important for a wife
to
understand and
appreciate her husband's callirig; to have some
knowledge of
r o b k ~ m s
and burdens involved in it.
I do know couples where that is very, very true. I
mentioned engineer because I was thinking
of
an
aerospace engineer whom I knew, and while he.
never divulged anything that was classified, he
would talk to his wife about his problems, the kind
of objectives
he
had
so
they were very much a matter
of concern to her also, as
well
as
a matter of prayer.
I think, too often, because in the modern world a
man leaves the home to go
to
work, he does not
involve his wife and children in his work as
was
once the case when men worked out of the house.
Q. What are some suggestionsyou could
give to a husband
that
could help involve
the wife in the way you have just
described?
'
A. First of all, the husband has to have a calling. He
has to feel .the workhe is doing is a way of serving
God. By discharging
his
duties honestly and
faithfully, whether the work be avery important one
in the eyes of men, or whether
it
be a small thing in
the eyes
of
men, he
has to
see
it
as a way
of
sefvirtg
God
Then,
if
he feels so and
if
he enjoys
his
work,
he should share his delight in the accomplishment
that is his in what he achieves, and thereby to make
her a
p rt
of
his life when he is away from home.
Now, I do feel that the question of calling is a very
important thing. Work
is
more than a job. It's .
always a service to man and to God,.and the idea of
a Christian vocation, or the Christian calling which
was once so basic
to
the Reformed faith is, like other
things, gone. We have for the most part seen
Calvinism reduced
to
the five points. The five
points are good. They are certainly to be believed.
But anyone who reduces the faith
to
the five points .
has destroyed it because it is far richer than that and
Page 14 June 1990 The Counsel o Chalcedon
it requires the totality of our lives .The totality of life
in the early years.of the Reformed Faith was
especially powerlul in the reformation of the family.
The family became a powerful unit in the Reformed
Faith. Today, the church is the center. The church
is
important, but it cannot take
r 1 o ~ t y
over
e f a m i l y .
Today, we have Sunday Christiaruty and siX day nee
paganism.
Q. Again, as an encouragement to readers,
how can husbands
and
wives be closer
together in the work of the Lord? What has
been Dorothy's major contribution of
support?
. A. Her major contribution
has
been lovfug the Lord
and loving me and loving the calling we have .
t o g e t h ~ r
That is
why
we are never bored with
each
other. When I am away, I call home every night
and
it is difficult
to
hang up. We have so much
to
talk
about. f we drive sqmewhere, two, three, four
five hours, we are talking the whole time.
Aild
of
course, since my work doesn't take
me away from
home - my office
is
only down the hill a short
distance - we see a great deal of each other
and
we
enjoy our
tirile
together. I think life with people is
the same
as
life with the Lord.
f all
we
do
is to
pray
briefly, morning noon and night at the table, and
.. briefly at
the
devotions in the evening, then we don 't
have
t o much to
say
to
God. I have bad
. opportunities to see people that l knew
very well
and
was close to 30 or 40 years ago , and after a few
minutes, very oftel), itis difficult
to
chat We've .
grown apart. Now, the more
we
share with each
.
o er
the closer we.become and the more easy it
is
to
communicate. So; I am always interested in
sharing
thjngs with Dorothy and she shares things with
me.
As I mentioned, she
is
an omnivorous reader and
s h ~ often calls my attention to things I've missed
so
life together is very rich and very wonderful.
Q.
Do you have any hobbies,
or
things
you
like to do together for telaxation ~ p a r t from
the
work at C h a l c e ~ o J i .What do you .do?
A.
(Laughing) Well, (again laughing) right now we
are hauling rocks Boulders
Q. What
are you doing With those, maybe
building a rock garden?
A. Mark, our son, lives at the other end
of
the
driveway
on
our 60 acres. We are on a hilltop.
This
was
mining country and still is,
to
a degree. The
. garden l o ~ which is abou.t an acre in size,
we
are
enlarging. We had a backhoe come.in to break up the
ground so Mark, Dorothy, myself and Mark's
two
older children, Isaac
and
April, ten and eight,
have
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8/12/2019 1990 Issue 5 - A Telephone Conversation With R.J.
Rushdoony - Counsel of Chalcedon
3/3
been hauling rocks. Since the children are at school
and Mark is helping run
the
school,
it means that
in
the mornings now, Dorothy and I work for a few
hours hauling rocks.
It
will take us,
before we
get
them all
hauled, perhaps a goodpart
of the
summer.
Q. I have to clarify something. Here in the
south, when we talk about gardening, we
are
talking about vegetable gardening. Are
you talking about vegetable gardening
at
your place?
A. Yes, it is a vegetable garden. Mark is in charge
of it, and then Dorothy. Enough is grown in
that
garden so that each Sunday through
the
summer a
couple of boxes of vegetables are
taken
to our
morning worship for
people
to
help
themselves after
the service is over.
Q.
What favorite vegetable do you like to
grow in the garden?
A. Oh, almost anything. I
am
fond
of
zucchini and I
do like peas and beans. There are a number of things
that we grow -okra, for example, which is very
good. The one thing I don t touch are tomatoes
because I am allergic
to
them. We
do get some
excellent Armenian cucumbers as well as
the
regular
cucumbers - quite a few varieties of vegetables,
normally.
Q. Let s come back to the Chalcedon
Foundation for a minute. What current
project are you working on? What is the big
focus right now for you?
A.
For me
personally
or for
Chalcedon?
Q. For Chalcedon.
A.
We
are trying
to get our
first building up.
We
had to
revise our original plans
downward
three
times.
When
we began our plans three, no, three
and one-half years ago, and even now, inflation has
been very real. After this building is up, we hope to
start a second building fund. And, we will need
funds to furnish this building also.
Q.
What personal project do you have
going right now? What is the most
important focus for you right now?
A.
Right
now, as usual, I have several works
going. I have
about
three or four works that are
finished that
need
publication. The
proof
reading
on
the two-volume
SYSTEMATIC
THEOLOGY was
finished today. After those corrections
are made it
will go to the printer. I have works on Leviticus,
Romans
and Galatians finished. I am
currently
working on
the
latter
part of he
COMMENTARY
ON EXODUS. I am also
working
on a
study
of
church and state - a followup on CHRISTIANITY
AND
Tiffi
STATE.
Again,
I
am
working on
the
Christian ministry over the centuries
in various
areas
apart from evangelism - ministry
to
the aged, to the
homeless,
to
the needy,
and to the
sick.
Calvin
s
writings
on
the
Diacona
t
e, the work
of
deacons, is
his
most
neglected area of study.
Only
one book has
ever
been written on the
Diaconate
and his
wo
rk
there
was
very, very important.
The
sad fact is that
he
was
perhaps more influential on Catholics than
on
Protestants. The work of St. Charles Borromeo
reflects Calvin s teachings
on the
Diaconate. Then I
am working
on
another study of
the Biblical
Doctrine of
the Family
. I usually have
four
or five
things going; and when I reach a point where I cant
develop
my
thinking on one, I drop it for a while
and
go
on
to another.
Q. I would like to come back to the focus
on the couple
and
the relationship
of
the
couple regarding their biblical mandate.
What one recommendation would you make
to a couple to encourage them so they might
grow together in their mission
of
work to
rebuild the kingdom?
A.
Enjoy
what you have in your husband and in
your wife. And, be grateful
for
what you have. The
more
you appreciate
your
husband or your wife, the
better you will enjoy them. I think most
people are
discontented with everything except themselves, and
that
is
where
a great
deal of
their unhappiness
begins. They are very conscious
of
the
weaknesses
and
faults of others, but
not
of their
own.
I have
often teased
Dorothy when
I tell
her
something
that
irks
me
a little
and she
tells
me of
what
might irk
her, I tell her, well, your faults all stinky ones;
mine
are loveable ones. Now, of course, I
don t
mean that
seriously. I mean that I recognize
how
self-centered
we
are as
we
look
at
one another.
Our
faults are
always loveable ones. The
other
person s faults re
always stinky.
If you see
that in
yourself
, it makes it
much,
much
easier
to
live with
other people and
to
live with yourself.
Q.
So, the closing thought is that
our
mates always have stinky faults and we
always have loveable faults.
A. (Laughing) That is what we like to think, and
it
is anything
but
true.
(ED S NOTE: We hope you found the interview
with Dr. Rushdoony as educational and heart
warming as this student of the Reformed Faith
found it to be.)
The Counsel o Chalcedon June 199 Page 15
