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1 ORANGE COUNTY FAIR & EVENT CENTER
2 OCFEC EQUESTRIAN CENTER AD HOC COMMITTEE MEETING
3
4
5
6 Regarding )
)
7 )
)
8 OCFEC Equestrian Center Ad Hoc )
Committee Meeting, )
9 )
)
10 )
)
11 )
___________________________________)
12
13
OC Fair & Event Center
14 Administration Building
15 88 Fair Drive
16 Costa Mesa, California
17
18 Thursday, June 21, 2018
19 10:00 a.m.
20
21
22
23 Reported by:
24 LUIS R. HERNANDEZ
25
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 APPEARANCES OF ATTENDEES:
2 COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
3 CHAIR ASHLEIGH AITKEN
4 DIRECTOR SANDRA CERVANTES
5 COMMUNITY LIAISON THERESA SEARS
6
7
8 ALSO PRESENT:
9 CHAIR BARBARA BAGNERIS
10 KATHY KRAMER
11 KEN KARNS
12 SUMMER ANGUS
13
14
15
16
17
18
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24
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 I N D E X
2 Page
3 Proceedings 4
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9 E X H I B I T S
10 None
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 Costa Mesa, California, Thursday, June 21, 2018
2 10:00 a.m.
3
4
5
6 CHAIR AITKEN: I'm going to call the meeting to order.
7 Let's start, please, with the Pledge of Allegiance.
8 Theresa, would you like to lead us in that today?
9 MS. SEARS: Everybody stand, please.
10 (Pledge of Allegiance recited)
11 CHAIR AITKEN: Thank you very much. I keep losing
12 board members here. All right. Just to give people a,
13 kind of, framework of what we're going to do, unlike our
14 regular Board meetings, I thought today we could just be a
15 lot more collaborative and casual.
16 Obviously, we have public comment on the agenda,
17 which if you would like to speak under public comment,
18 please. It is your right, absolutely. Please do that.
19 But what we're going to do is as we get to each topic, I
20 would like you to feel comfortable to raise your hand,
21 speak if you have questions. I want to do this as a
22 committee of 30, not just a committee of Board members.
23 And if there's something that a staff report
24 raises new questions, then I don't want you to feel that
25 because you didn't mention it in your public comment that
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 you can't follow up.
2 So with that in mind, you know, we are going to
3 just try be as collaborative as possible so everybody
4 feels that they can weigh in as we go through each subject
5 matter.
6 To start, I am going to go through roll call.
7 Summer, if you don't mind.
8 MADAM SECRETARY: Committee Chair, Director Aitken?
9 CHAIR AITKEN: Present.
10 MADAM SECRETARY: Director Tkaczyk?
11 (No response)
12 Director Cervantes?
13 DIRECTOR CERVANTES: Here.
14 MADAM SECRETARY: And for the record, in attendance is
15 Board Chair Bagneris.
16 CHAIR AITKEN: And our Community Liaison,
17 Theresa Sears, is up here with us as well.
18 So with that, if anybody would like to start and
19 do general public comment? Let me -- let me see. I have
20 under the just general, not an agenda item, Dave Soroski,
21 I guess Patty, Reggie. And then everyone else has a
22 specific, I guess, Callie Rutter has just general public
23 comment. If you would like to make those comments.
24 MS. MUNDEKIS: Sure.
25 DIRECTOR AITKEN: Start with Reggie.
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 MS. MUNDEKIS: Hi. Good morning. And thank you for
2 this opportunity to address you this morning. I welcome
3 this meeting. This type of format where we have a small
4 group of interested Board members and members of the
5 public can who dig into issues in depth is something that
6 we need more of.
7 City councils frequently do this in agencies such
8 as Water District, Sanitary District, and even the Orange
9 County Transportation Authority do this on a regular
10 basis. They call them study sessions, where you take
11 something outside of the regular agendized meeting and you
12 spend as much time as you need, digging into it, and
13 picking it apart, and putting it back together, and really
14 understanding what's going on. I really welcome this and
15 I'd like to see this carried on.
16 There's -- everybody is very cautious about the
17 Bagley-Keene Act. The Bagley-Keene Act doesn't say that
18 you don't have to -- it says that you don't have to
19 agendize meetings of two Board members -- Task Force
20 meetings -- but you can agendize all of those Task Force
21 meetings.
22 You can agendize all those Task Force meetings
23 and invite the public to join you. And if you want to
24 meet in a smaller conference outside the large conference
25 room, you can do that. You just have to give public
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 access to that meeting.
2 And I think that going going forward, we need to
3 agendize Task Force meetings because that way the public
4 can see what's going on and we can have more input. And
5 you can even have an agendized meeting with one Board
6 member leading it. And you may want to call that format
7 more of a workshop or public meeting or town hall.
8 So if there's a Board member that wants to get
9 input from the public or deal with an issue in depth, you
10 can have a public meeting. And I really encourage that
11 because there's so many issues here that need to be
12 unpacked and understood and that will create a much better
13 pathway for improved community relations. Thank you.
14 CHAIR AITKEN: Next, I have Patty Stone.
15 MS. STONE: You know, I really -- I put my name in,
16 but I'd like to hear about what we're going to talk about
17 first because I'm kind in the dark about --
18 CHAIR AITKEN: Absolutely. No problem. Just raise
19 your hand.
20 MS. STONE: Okay. Thank you very much.
21 CHAIR AITKEN: Dave Soroski.
22 MR. SOROSKI: My name's Dave Soroski. My horse's name
23 is Ted. I represent ETI. I would like to say, please
24 stay with the winning formula. Too often I have seen
25 where winning formulas have been disturbed by actions like
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 these to become losing formulas.
2 The police are looking for space. If we increase
3 the space that we have currently -- Irvine has them,
4 Newport has them, Orange County has them -- they would be
5 best stationed here.
6 Also, evacuation. I've gone through many
7 evacuations. This is a prime spot. This is a firm spot.
8 Do not remove it. I would like to look at also ETI's
9 involvement in this if we progress down the road and also
10 from what we can offer. I rewrite and speak horse, and I
11 also rewrite and speak police. Allow us to participate in
12 this activity and guide you and continue the winning
13 formula. Thank you.
14 CHAIR AITKEN: Thank you. Last, for general, I have
15 Callie Rutter.
16 MS. RUTTER: Hello. My name is Callie Rutter, and
17 that's spelled C-A-L-L-I-E, R-U-T-T-E-R.
18 The first general item I wanted to address was
19 the language. So when we're using language in the -- the
20 new plans that may be coming up -- that we're sure to use,
21 like, a horse stall is a horse stall, an arena is an
22 arena -- so that we're all speaking the same language.
23 You know, shelves is not necessarily a retail
24 space. A tack room is not a rider lounge. We don't need
25 a $900,000 rider lounge. That's not what that means.
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 Also, livestock versus horses. Livestock can be used to
2 be repurposed.
3 In other words, used for their meat, their hide,
4 whatever. Horses, equine -- you can't do that. They're
5 slaughtered out of the country because we don't eat meat
6 here. So it's by the USDA that that is defined. So I
7 think that's the other part that I wanted to address.
8 And then also please consider making this a
9 historic landmark. I think that's something really
10 important that we address so that we don't go through this
11 again.
12 The other thing that is also not on the agenda
13 that I mentioned last time is addressing the issue I had
14 with the formal investigation into Ms. Kramer's hiring
15 Johnson Company and the amount in which that was 253,000
16 for over two years, which I think is the process and
17 procedure.
18 And then, of course, the member that also serves
19 as Treasurer and Secretary on Labor Board 652. Thank you.
20 CHAIR AITKEN: Thank you. Okay.
21 We're going to start with the first topic and
22 this isn't meant to be exclusive for what we're going to
23 be doing over the next month -- next few months.
24 Just to kind of give everybody a 50,000-foot view
25 of what I think what we're going to try to do and what my
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 goal is is to provided a written report from this
2 Committee to the Board in the fall -- maybe around
3 October -- of what this Committee has heard from the
4 public, what we see as the future of the Equestrian
5 Center, you know, what can we do.
6 And it's going to include things like our
7 immediate needs and fixes that we are going to have to
8 confront right now -- potential future uses and programing
9 that's going to be on the Equestrian Center property,
10 reaffirm what we did at the last Board meeting, which is
11 that we are going to have continuing Equestrian Center
12 uses on the property, which we've discussed at the last
13 Board meeting.
14 And then the real fun one, which is when we have
15 to do a cost analysis. We might have a lot of ideas
16 coming out of this Committee. But in reality, we have to
17 figure out what are those ideas going to cost and under
18 our contract, who's going to be financially responsible
19 for that; what type of grants, what type of partnering,
20 what type of community fund rising can we do to make all
21 of these things possible.
22 And obviously, going forward, if people have
23 something that I left out or something that they think
24 they want to add onto that, you know, but that's the goal.
25 Is to really have a couple of meetings going forward now
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 through October.
2 I am sensitive that some of our Equestrian Center
3 folks are teaching lessons during the mornings, so I
4 intend to keep having meetings during fair time, either
5 before fair when it opens. It doesn't help to some of our
6 equestrians if they're teaching lessons. But even I'm
7 willing to come after fair in the evening, so that people
8 can have access and we can update people on where we're
9 going.
10 And then really forming out some of our community
11 reports. I'm an expert in certain fields, but I'm not an
12 expert in every field. So if there's certain things
13 that -- there's somebody out there that is very good with
14 community programming, is very good with grant writing, is
15 very good with knowledge in that aspect.
16 Obviously, we're going to try to collaboratively
17 put together a report so that when we go in front of the
18 Board in the fall, we have a pretty good cohesive report.
19 Are we all going to agree with each other on
20 everything over the next six months? You guys are
21 optimistic. Probably not, but I would like to at least
22 have the majority of our stakeholders at the Fairgrounds
23 to have some type of buy-in and feel that their voice was
24 heard. Even if you don't get a hundred percent of what
25 you want, we want to make sure that the process is
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 transparent as possible.
2 So with that, going forward, I would like to
3 start with the first item on our agenda which is the
4 review of the State Marshal Annual Report, dated May 31st
5 to identify current safety issues, as well as discussion
6 around deferred maintenance issues related to the
7 Equestrian Center.
8 And if you didn't see it, there were copies of
9 this report online and in the back of the room. So who
10 would like to give that? Is that you Ken or Kathy? Can
11 you just give for the people that may not have had a
12 chance to go though it line by line -- just an overview of
13 what it says and what are our immediate needs.
14 MR. KARNS: Sure. I can certainly tackle that. So we
15 condensed the pages of the Finance Report and a little bit
16 more layman for you to read. And as you can see, most of
17 the items have been attended to -- sorry. And we do have
18 a couple of larger items that require further discussion
19 and I understand with the full Board.
20 But our team and Rick's team have been working
21 diligently to get items done. There's a couple of larger
22 items that are a little lengthier and require further
23 input from outside contractors and getting pricing. Those
24 specifically, the fire alarm system. We're asking for an
25 extension from the fire marshal. Because as you can see,
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1 we have to get jobs done and submittals and estimates and
2 just a door system that has to be replaced and then some
3 asphalt.
4 So other than that, everything is pretty much
5 done. I know some tenants are looking at their canopy
6 systems to make sure they're fire rated. If not, they
7 have to come down and be replaced. But other than that,
8 it's getting cleaned up nicely.
9 CHAIR AITKEN: So are these -- the ones that we have
10 not complied with -- for instance, the fire alarm
11 system -- the -- it says the tack rooms. Can you just
12 give me a little bit more information on --
13 MS. KRAMER: Ashleigh, what item are you looking?
14 CHAIR AITKEN: Oh, I'm sorry. Number 2. Oh,
15 complete. I'm sorry. Just on the ones that are not --
16 MR. KARNS: It's really the three.
17 CHAIR AITKEN: -- yet done. So we need to -- we have
18 an end date. Are we going to be coming to the Board next
19 meeting next week to get approval for any additional
20 funding or what is the plan to bring us fully into
21 compliance?
22 CHAIR BAGNERIS: So my question is: This is all part
23 of a contract and this maintenance is to be done for the
24 contract? So I want to make sure we don't forget that.
25 Even though there items being done for expediency sake,
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 they're going to need to be billed to the contract.
2 CHAIR AITKEN: Right. But if we have -- I guess that
3 would be a question that we need to look into. Because if
4 we have fire alarm systems under the contract that were
5 not up to code when the contract started, would that be --
6 who's responsible for that?
7 CHAIR BAGNERIS: So I've had several conversations
8 with legal on this. And my understanding was the property
9 was turned over in good working order, and in the
10 contract, it says that. And then the maintenance was to
11 happen by -- through the contract.
12 So if that's true, if that's something that
13 wasn't up to code, no one knew it or didn't come forward.
14 So now these items have to be, per the contract,
15 maintained. So that's my concern -- is we've been doing
16 all these things, but should we be doing them? Should the
17 contractor be doing them? I want us to be careful so
18 we're not crossing the line on that.
19 CHAIR AITKEN: Okay. I'm assuming, have we had
20 conversations? I mean, Rick's here. So we have
21 conversations between you and Rick as to when and who and
22 how these things are getting done?
23 CHAIR BAGNERIS: So Rick, can you speak to that?
24 Because I don't really know.
25 MR. HANSON: So the biggest thing for us is the fire
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 alarm. I mean, I think that's -- I mean -- it's a
2 dinosaur. If you look in there, there's tubes and
3 stuff -- I mean -- it looks like an antique TV.
4 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Yeah. I agree.
5 MR. HANSON: And so -- I mean -- to me, that's part of
6 the facility. That's part of the infrastructure of the
7 facility. I don't think that should be our
8 responsibility.
9 FEMALE SPEAKER: Did you inherit that?
10 MR. HANSON: We inherited that.
11 CHAIR BAGNERIS: So -- and if that's the case, I would
12 agree with that. So I think that's -- I want to make sure
13 that we're fixing outside of the contract. The contract
14 says it's handed over in good order. But if you look at
15 that alarm system, it looks like it's from 1902.
16 CHAIR AITKEN: So is it a guy with a bell?
17 CHAIR BAGNERIS: So that's one of the things I hope
18 that we can fair it out so we can bring them back to the
19 Board and say, "Okay, Board. We giving staff direction to
20 go fix this right now. These items are part of the
21 contract. We're going to give them back to the person
22 that's supposed to maintain them."
23 That's what I'm hoping is going to come out of
24 this report.
25 MS. KRAMER: Ashleigh, if I may answer your question.
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 Thank you Barbara. We do have an agenda item and next
2 week's Board agenda is an action item.
3 This worksheet will be attached as well as the
4 equestrians under contract and then some supplemental back
5 up information, so the entire Board can have that
6 conversation and give -- because we want clear direction
7 from the staff. What do we do? We're really ready,
8 willing, and able to do that. We want to make sure we
9 have clear direction and the blessings of the Board on
10 these issues. So I think this is a good one to bring back
11 on Thursday to talk about it.
12 CHAIR AITKEN: Yeah. And so we've already talked to
13 Josh. There's already negotiating going on.
14 CHAIR BAGNERIS: He couldn't be here today, but he
15 will be here next week.
16 CHAIR AITKEN: As long as, I think, Josh weighs in and
17 then there's a solution presented --
18 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Right.
19 CHAIR AITKEN: -- about what's already being
20 negotiated so that Rick's not surprised and then we're not
21 hearing after that nobody had been communicating with the
22 operator.
23 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Right. And so that's why I'm glad
24 Rick is here because he can hear all this today and we
25 know we're definitely pull out the alarm system. That's
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1 something that we should act on quickly and we'll bring
2 that to the Board next week to take action on it.
3 So you need to look at the rest of these in the
4 same way. So that Rick is here so we can say we've had
5 that conversation.
6 MS. SEARS: May I ask a question about the tack rooms?
7 It says documentation of tack rooms and then following
8 your logic, Barbara, the list of facilities that were
9 given over to the Hansons in good working order. I'm
10 assuming everything was up to code and whatever.
11 So I'm assuming that that includes the two tack
12 rooms for each barn. That would total 18, and then the 14
13 that were also included as well. And that's part of his
14 contract, so that's Exhibit C. So I'm going to assume
15 No. 2, approve tack rooms, covers 32 tack rooms.
16 MR. ELDRIDGE: So what the fire marshal is asking for
17 is the drawings of the facility when we first built it,
18 which was in the 70s. I had given that to him when he
19 came out in May on his first inspection.
20 He's asking for it again. This is actually --
21 he's training Jose, who's asking for it. What they want
22 is they want the drawings that say that the tack rooms are
23 tack rooms on the drawings. What we have right now is
24 some of the tack rooms are turned into offices, which
25 changes their occupancy and their class to a B. So that
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1 may come up when they come back to reinspect.
2 MS. SEARS: So Jerry, great. I'm glad you're here.
3 So the 18, you know, they're -- I would assume they're
4 covered because, you know, when you have -- these are back
5 to back shed stalls is what they basically are, and they
6 were built in the 70s as you say. And they all come with
7 tack rooms, so that's, you know, that's pretty standard.
8 The 14 -- and I haven't gone through all of
9 them -- tack rooms or offices -- I'm assuming that because
10 the Fair staff back when in the day, they used to actually
11 manage this facility, so they managed it and I assuming
12 under their oversight, they -- you know -- they oversaw
13 that. And then hand it over to the Hansons, so that was
14 inherited by them. So I'm assuming you have all that
15 paperwork or you can supply that.
16 Now if it's offices, then, you know, I've been in
17 the building business for 25 years, and I know apartments,
18 houses, and I've had plenty of checklists. And generally,
19 what I find is, when you're dealing with a marshall, a
20 fire marshal, or, you know, a committee agency or
21 whatever, I mean, they're -- they always want to work with
22 you.
23 They come with a great attitude. It's a lot of
24 willingness, which is -- and you work through the check
25 list. And some things you can't get done. Like, maybe
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1 this fire alarm system as you're talking, it's out of
2 date. We have to get a new one and it may have have to be
3 ordered and then -- whatever.
4 But generally, as -- as -- generally, you can get
5 extensions. So what I'm hoping is that we communicate
6 correctly with the fire marshal in that way and also
7 often, things that they're not quite up to code or there's
8 something that's not quite right, you can do what's called
9 "as built." And "as built" is now you just have to say,
10 "Okay. Maybe we didn't have everything right on three of
11 these, and we have to figure out -- okay. Put together
12 the drawing."
13 And that can be done. And then maybe they'll
14 need to have an electrical upgrade, which I think this
15 whole equestrian facility needs -- electrical upgrades.
16 But I also think probably the whole property does as well.
17 So with that said, is there a way to set up, kind
18 of, ground rules going forward, Ashleigh, of how we, you
19 know, how we put this all in one list and -- so that
20 there's predictability out there? Predictability to the
21 operator. Predictability to staff that's having to do the
22 job and the executive management that has to oversee it.
23 Because you're the ones that, you know, you're
24 setting the tone for this thing. And then mostly, in my
25 mind, predictability for the people out in the Equestrian
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1 Center that are running their programs, that are teaching
2 their students on a daily basis.
3 I mean, that's a classroom out there. And I know
4 it's hard for them when they're running a class -- and
5 they're doing their instructions -- to have to worry about
6 something that they don't really understand. And they're,
7 you know, some of them may have extra in these things, but
8 a lot of them, they know their horses. And that's what
9 they're doing, so they're teachers.
10 And we can't -- again, you wouldn't disrupt a
11 class at school in the middle and say, "Hey, you know, the
12 bathroom toilet's overflowing. What you are going to do
13 teacher?" So, any way, maybe predictability is our a way
14 to set up ground rules, I guess.
15 CHAIR AITKEN: Yeah. And that's a good question. I
16 was going to ask -- and I'm glad Jerry's here too --
17 about -- do we get notice when the fire marshal is going
18 to be -- I don't know how often -- is he coming back? Do
19 we know when the next visit is?
20 Because I think it may be -- would be helpful --
21 I think communication's always been a struggle for us --
22 to maybe have somebody either from this committee or a
23 community liaison or maybe we can have designated Eq.
24 Center liaison that is, at least, with you on the tour and
25 is responsible for disseminating information to the
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1 equestrians about when the fire marshal's coming.
2 If you and your crew might need to do something
3 on your own, that we can just set up that type of
4 notification. I don't know if we do it through a closed
5 Facebook group? Do we do it just through a list serve
6 that we set up through email? Just so we all know what's
7 going on.
8 MR. ELDRIDGE: Yeah. We can notify you when they come
9 out. They won't come out until I let them know that we're
10 done with the list and they'll come out and check with us
11 to make sure that what we sent them saying, "We're done
12 with that. They don't always come out.
13 So depending on the availability, like, right now
14 they've been in interviews all week -- hiring more people.
15 So it says it's an annual report. Some times it's every
16 two years. Some times it's three. Some times it's every
17 year. So it's just when they're available is when they
18 come out and do their report or their annual inspection.
19 It's one the items that's on the list of
20 priorities. If they're too busy, they will not -- not
21 just our facility, but facilities in general, they'll put
22 off the annual inspections to go and do something in their
23 world that is more important in their priorities.
24 MS. SEARS: Jerry, are they based in the
25 Southern California area or are they Sacramento?
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1 MR. ELDRIDGE: I believe they're in El Monte.
2 MS. SEARS: Oh, El Monte. Okay. So they're local,
3 more or less.
4 MR. ELDRIDGE: Pretty close.
5 CHAIR AITKEN: I misunderstood. So when we're asking
6 for the four-month extension, that doesn't mean we're
7 setting a four-month appointment?
8 MR. ELDRIDGE: No. I'm asking them for four months so
9 that we can do the all the investigation, all the design,
10 you know, the tack rooms.
11 So when we go back and get the engineering and
12 have the fire alarm system reassessed and redesigned, we
13 can also put in for a change of lock and is there a
14 conditional use in those drawings with fire suppression
15 system in the tack rooms, which will no longer be probably
16 considered tack rooms, but offices. Because most of them
17 are that I've seen.
18 I know there are tack rooms, but I have not been
19 able to get into all of them because a lot of them are
20 locked. That will just be something that when we put in
21 for our drawings, and like Theresa was saying, that's part
22 of that process.
23 CHAIR AITKEN: Or maybe part of this information thing
24 because it's a two-way street; right? You know, the
25 Equestrian Center wants notice that we're going to be out
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1 there, but when we tell them that we're going to be out
2 there, we need everybody to be open and working with you
3 and present. But I think with notice, we could fix that
4 so that you can go in there and you can just do all of
5 them in an hour, maybe.
6 MS. KRAMER: Ashleigh, can I make a suggestion?
7 CHAIR AITKEN: Absolutely. Please.
8 MS. KRAMER: Thank you. What I'd like to do -- and
9 staff will take care of this -- let's get a sign-up sheet,
10 because I know we don't have a comprehensive list of
11 everyone's email addresses, so we'll work with Rick, put a
12 notice up, and we can everyone that's interested.
13 We'll pass a paper around today. We'll get your
14 email. And then as communications come, whatever we need
15 to do -- notices; however, we can absolutely communicate
16 with with the community.
17 CHAIR AITKEN: And can you please make sure that we're
18 all on it.
19 MS. KRAMER: Absolutely.
20 MS. SEARS: We can designate somebody out there. I
21 mean, they -- they have their own way -- they communicate,
22 you know. And so you can have this list and then you
23 could say to this person, "Your job is to go tell all
24 those folks."
25 MS. KRAMER: Theresa, after the meeting, would you --
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1 we can work together on that and then that way --
2 Ashleigh, to your point -- everybody -- we got a mechanism
3 to notify everybody. So we'll work on that.
4 MS. SEARS: Yes. And I'm actually willing, Jerry, I'm
5 willing to spend time, and, you know, making sure we get
6 through this list and save Jerry a lot of time because I
7 know you're busy with the Fair, to make sure that
8 things are -- tack rooms are open or whatever -- we figure
9 out what's needed.
10 You just get the list. This is not rocket
11 science. And then find out what we have to do forward.
12 Is it a CUP or however. If it's a class B office.
13 MR. ELDRIDGE: Right. And the architects will help
14 walk us through that. And that's why I asked for four
15 months. We need an architect, an engineer who can draw
16 the plans and do the fire alarm. Then we'll go to Cal
17 Fire, which is four to six weeks. That's a
18 month-and-a-half right there. That four months that I'm
19 asking for.
20 CHAIR BAGNERIS: And everything we're doing, the
21 operator needs to be -- he's the number one before
22 everybody. Before the tenants and all of that, the
23 operator needs to know what's going on.
24 MS. SEARS: Yeah. And Barbara, that's part of having
25 this. Well, it would be like, you know, staff, you know,
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1 Fair staff, operator, and the trainer types working
2 together. And I'm happy to, sort of, help them along for
3 a while, not forever, but during this more rough road.
4 But then, I guess, Jerry, my question is: With
5 the fire marshal, is he requiring, you know, if we have an
6 architect -- some of these folks, their family members are
7 architects -- are we able to have them draw it? Or is it
8 something that we --
9 MS. KRAMER: It has to be State. As a State property,
10 we have a process we have to follow with everything that's
11 said under the Department of General Services, they've
12 allocated CFFA. So we absolutely have to work from CFFA.
13 But if CFFA, from my understanding, does have the
14 flexibility. If we have some recommendations of some
15 architects, they might be subject matter experts, so
16 they're willing to do that. But they have to be the
17 vehicle.
18 MS. SEARS: Okay. So if we understand that better, we
19 can really help facilitate it quicker and maybe be a cost
20 saver, maybe.
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: Could I just ask a question about
22 tack rooms versus offices and what kind of, maybe,
23 latitude there is on that definition? Because from what
24 I've seen -- and I've certainly not seen all of them --
25 but there's tack rooms, and in some cases, in the tack
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1 rooms, there's a little desk that a trainer uses for
2 lessons schedule or something like that.
3 And certainly nobody is sitting in an office all
4 day long, but they're in and out, and there's a saddle
5 there and there's a little desk there that maybe they sit.
6 So is that why they're calling it an office?
7 MR. ELDRIDGE: Okay. So I'm not a professional on
8 occupancy loads and calculations and the code of
9 assemblies like this and, you know, there's a lot to it.
10 So that's where our architect will come in. He'll assess
11 the unit, the tack room, and say, "This is a tack room.
12 This is an office. This is where we sell the merchandise.
13 This is an office. This is a tack room." He could make
14 those or she could make those determinations.
15 So I wouldn't even want to mix things. Although
16 I'm not going to make a statement on what I think is right
17 or wrong.
18 MS. KRAMER: And to your point about when we're ready
19 to have that point, we'll make sure that whoever owns that
20 space or is in that space can be there. So, again, very
21 collaboratively. You'll have notification. And you can
22 be the voice of what kind of activities happen in that
23 space, sharing it with the fire marshall, or anybody from
24 the architectural community.
25 MS. SEARS: So, Jerry, who dictates, sort of, the
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1 standard? Is it the fire marshal versus a tack room,
2 office retail -- is it the fire marshal or is it the
3 architect?
4 MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, the architect will make his
5 determination of what he thinks the usage is, but the fire
6 marshall ultimately has the say on approving the points.
7 CHAIR AITKEN: So we want to make sure that we have an
8 architect that is very familiar with equine spaces.
9 MS. SEARS: Exactly. Exactly.
10 CHAIR AITKEN: Because my concern is -- and it's
11 really kind of doubling down with this fire alarm system
12 issue -- that we have all been out there and we know our
13 trainers have desks, but they also have surge protectors
14 with computers plugged into them.
15 Whereas a traditional tack room, we want to make
16 sure that where it used to be just saddles and what not,
17 if we now have electric in there, we want to make sure
18 that we're up to code and that the right things -- that we
19 have the capacity that if someone's got a desktop and 17
20 phones being charged at the same time -- that we can
21 handle that load.
22 So that might be -- I don't know. That might be
23 another factor that we're -- we need a higher capacity for
24 and electrical load.
25 MS. SEARS: Well, I think a lot has changed since the
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1 70s -- electrical needs.
2 DIRECTOR AITKEN: I know I have.
3 MS. SEARS: I mean, there's been -- so -- the -- and
4 that's the entire facility, probably, because there's a
5 greater need. But I also hope that maybe we'll even look
6 into, you know, solar out there. Because the barns are
7 ideal for solar. And you can just, boom, cut your cost, I
8 mean, a lot. So, I mean -- just out there. And that
9 would be -- Ken, that's your expertise, Ken. I would
10 think. I understand that.
11 MR. ELDRIDGE: Theresa, can I make on more comment.
12 So I would assume that we would be talking tack rooms, so
13 I'd ask Fred, who's the chief fire marshall for our areas.
14 I asked him today and he stepped out of his interview and
15 he said, "You cannot use the facility. You cannot use the
16 facility for a B occupancy, which is what an office space
17 would be, unless it is designed, reviewed, approved and
18 constructed as such, encompassing all the fire, law, and
19 safety requirements, per Code Section CCR-T24."
20 So, like I said, so when we do the fire alarm
21 system, that would be something that we'll be asking,
22 "Hey, since we do have the structure here, what does it
23 take to get this in compliance?" The fire, law, safety,
24 as well as the occupancy will be changed.
25 MS. SEARS: So that would be the analysis that we
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1 would need to do for the 14 that were converted, not the
2 18 that existed?
3 MR. ELDRIDGE: Whichever ones are converted. I don't
4 know.
5 MS. SEARS: Well, the 18 are the end caps. Those
6 come, you know, office, tack rooms. They come with the
7 Board. I mean, nobody is going to build a 20-stall barn
8 without a tack room office-type-thing. Okay. I have
9 eight stalls and I have an office and I have tack rooms.
10 So you just don't build barns without that because you
11 need the storage. Where are you going to store your
12 stuff? Where are you going to do your stuff?
13 So that's pretty standard with the barn. So the
14 14 -- but we need to verify for sure. And I know the
15 other thing that was of concern is that these tack rooms,
16 at least I, for one, I store my feed. You know, you have
17 feed and you always have rodents. I mean, you're just not
18 going to get away when you deal with hay and things like
19 that.
20 The best way, at least for me, is always been to
21 store in metal trash cans with lids. And so I was told
22 that they got rid of all the metal trash cans with lids.
23 And that's pretty standard for equestrian use. And so I
24 don't know why that happened.
25 CHAIR AITKEN: Who got rid of them?
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1 MS. SEARS: I don't know. Rick, maybe can talk about
2 that. But I --
3 MR. HANSON: They threw a bunch of them away.
4 MS. SEARS: Reggie?
5 MS. MUNDEKIS: I put in a request in to the City of
6 Costa Mesa for a copy of any reports from the storm water
7 consultant regarding the Fairgrounds and the Equestrian
8 Center, so we should get those back shortly and I'll share
9 them with you to find out what -- because they were
10 coming -- the -- it's just a regular management function
11 where they come out periodically and they look at how
12 you're managing various issues in water shed situations.
13 So they come out and they look at your best
14 management practices and they make other recommendations
15 as far as how you can better manage to prevent items in
16 waste going into the storm water system, which ultimately
17 flows into the ocean.
18 So I requested to the city to get those
19 letters -- those recommendations and I'll share them with
20 you. If they do come out and say, "Throw away all the
21 metal trash cans." We'll know that.
22 CHAIR BAGNERIS: I think that's a question I have. If
23 they did that, who did they talk to? They talked to the
24 operator and say, "You need to get ride of these
25 containers."
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1 MS. SEARS: The jurisdiction to go tell -- who would
2 do that? That's what I'm trying to understand.
3 CHAIR BAGNERIS: But then also the Boarders need to
4 understand they need to go to the operator to make those
5 things -- they don't just take these on to -- there's
6 tenants and then operators. That's where I'm really
7 struggling with this relationship. We're going to have to
8 figure out how to communicate better.
9 MS. SEARS: That's why setting up ground rules and
10 having a communication channel can really help this
11 because it's -- it made no sense to me. And I said, "Wow,
12 if you threw them away, can't I have all of them because I
13 need -- where are they?" You know.
14 MS. MUNDEKIS: As you and I well know, planning issues
15 in the City of Orange, usually, these type of directions,
16 when an agency comes and says, "Oh, please stop doing
17 that." There's a piece of paper that comes with it that
18 has a name and date and agency and the signature as far as
19 who said, "Please stop doing that."
20 So if somebody did tell the Fairgrounds, "Oh,
21 they need to stop using metal waste cans," we need that
22 piece of paper and we need to ask them if they told them
23 to stop using metal waste cans at the Equestrian Center
24 because they're rusting through.
25 What about all the the other metal dumpsters on
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1 the property and all of the other pieces of rusting metal?
2 Because that would also create a similar situation. So if
3 we can find that piece of paper giving direction to do
4 that --
5 CHAIR AITKEN: I'm going to have staff look into it
6 and see if they can unearth any communications from the
7 city, specifically on this trash can issue. I see you.
8 And then if we have it, then we can put that as part of
9 the information for our next meeting. I mean, there's
10 really no hold. We can disseminate it to this email group
11 that we're going to create.
12 And then if you could, please, on the same email
13 group share what information you have and we're all in the
14 same page. So Jerry, please.
15 MR. ELDRIDGE: I just wanted to make it clear for this
16 -- records and all that. We, the OC Fair, did not receive
17 anything from the city. I did not he came until yesterday
18 when I met with Rick -- with Kurt.
19 Kurt was all upset that he had to do all this
20 work, and I said, "I don't what you're talking about. I
21 don't know who the city guy is. I don't know anything."
22 So whoever that is, the next time they come out --
23 CHAIR AITKEN: Just for clarity, who's Kurt?
24 MR. ELDRIDGE: Kurt manages.
25 CHAIR AITKEN: Okay.
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1 FEMALE SPEAKER: I just have a question for Jerry. So
2 does that mean that the storm water consultant people
3 don't come to you guys on the rest of the property?
4 MR. ELDRIDGE: We have our storm water consultant.
5 That's why --
6 MS. SEARS: So just for clarification, okay, which --
7 and the reason I bring up metal containers because I know
8 for a fact that plastic containers are problematic.
9 Because if you have a rodent and you have feed in there,
10 you're going to have something chewing through it, so 25
11 years of experience.
12 I've had a apartments and houses for years, and I
13 was the owner. I did not allow someone to tell my tenants
14 something. They would come through me and I would
15 disseminate. Of course, unless the electrician was coming
16 out just to fix something and it wasn't their cost.
17 But that's why we need ground rules. Because
18 it's a little bit chaotic and I'm wondering who are these
19 people that are dictating things that may -- maybe there's
20 a better way. Maybe the metal container is fine if you
21 put it on some blocks, you know, some blocks, and then
22 they're fine. We don't -- I just don't know what the
23 issue is.
24 CHAIR AITKEN: Right. We don't know if the storm
25 water person came out and said that metal container or
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 maybe it was rusted through and leaking. We don't know.
2 So --
3 CHAIR BAGNERIS: But still, the communication is
4 important.
5 MS. SEARS: There you go.
6 CHAIR BAGNERIS: If he comes out and talks to the
7 operator -- on-site operator to make that determination,
8 not just go to anybody and say, "Move that."
9 CHAIR AITKEN: Right. And we'll talk to Jerry and
10 Kurt and maybe investigate who Kurt spoke to and then set
11 up --
12 MR. ELDRIDGE: So Kurt is trying to set a meeting
13 up -- trying to set a meeting up next week with this
14 person who came out.
15 CHAIR AITKEN: So someone from the city came out and
16 just told the tenants what do and did not inform the
17 operators or the Fair staff?
18 MR. ELDRIDGE: They didn't inform us -- the Fair
19 staff. So I'm just going to stop there because I don't
20 want to speak for them.
21 MS. SEARS: Jerry, I'm happy to help interface. I'm
22 happy to help and then maybe we just resolve and maybe the
23 worst case is we lost a few trash cans, which we can deal
24 with it and then -- we'll leave it like that, you know. I
25 just don't know.
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1 CHAIR AITKEN: Kathy, are we required, as the CEO of
2 the property, if a local or a State or any type of
3 official is on the property for any reason, I would want
4 you to know about it.
5 MS. KRAMER: I don't usually -- I hear it directly
6 from staff because they have relationships with operations
7 and Jerry's been here and then he will let us know. They
8 wouldn't certainly have any requirement to come to my
9 office. They only have on record who they've been working
10 with on the property.
11 CHAIR AITKEN: But if someone at the Fair -- it just
12 seems strange to me that we have people from the city
13 coming on our property and our facility know nothing about
14 it.
15 MS. SEARS: As a courtesy to Jerry. Jerry should
16 know, and then Jerry reports accordingly.
17 CHAIR AITKEN: Someone from his staff to be there and
18 monitor what's going on just for a liability sake. So
19 maybe you could also reach out to the city and find out
20 what --
21 MR. ELDRIDGE: When I get that information.
22 MS. SEARS: Yeah.
23 MS. KRAMER: Let us unpack the issue and get some
24 answers and we'll bring them back.
25 CHAIR AITKEN: So can we put that on the parking lot
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 for maybe an update for our next meeting or next study
2 session?
3 MS. KRAMER: Yeah.
4 CHAIR AITKEN: Yes? I'm sorry.
5 MS. KASULAS: Just about the fire issue --
6 CHAIR AITKEN: Can you -- and I know this is a little
7 casual -- can you state your name just for our reporter.
8 MS. KASULAS: Oh, sure. Lianne Kasulas. About the
9 canopies, I understand they need to be flameproof that's
10 awesome and good idea. A lot of people have inherited
11 them from three people ago, three trainers ago. Fighting
12 the flame is going to be hard. There's some rumors
13 floating around that we could get a fire retardant spray
14 and spray them. But before we do that, just want to make
15 sure that that would be sufficient for the fire marshals.
16 MR. ELDRIDGE: I can ask, yeah.
17 MS. KASULAS: Okay. And we can replace them if we
18 have to.
19 MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, we have material that's approved
20 for putting on plywood and stuff for fire retardant, but I
21 don't know if it's acceptable to the fabric.
22 MS. KASULAS: Yeah. That's just a question.
23 MR. ELDRIDGE: And, also, if you know who you
24 purchased the canopy from, you can ask them.
25 MS. KASULAS: It's basically providing shade.
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1 MS. SEARS: Well, and Jerry, there must be a list of
2 standard accepted materials that they approve. So if
3 there's that list, too, then we might be able to -- they
4 may have have to take them out and get new ones.
5 MR. ELDRIDGE: The materials will have a certification
6 sewn onto it and that's what they want to see.
7 MS. SEARS: Well, and often, but it's also a material
8 because I know I'm at the street fair a lot every year,
9 and we have to do the same thing. And everything what we
10 bring into the booth, the same thing. And some things
11 don't have the certificate, but they have -- they give you
12 the list and then you can compare them and the fire
13 marshal says, "Fine."
14 MR. KARNS: If I can, whatever the solution is, if we
15 can spray, I wouldn't. If we get that answer, then I
16 would ask that everyone know that if you're going to
17 spray, then Rick helps you. We're not giving you
18 permission to spray. Let's make sure we're not harming
19 any feed or animals.
20 And then lastly, worst case scenario, we have to
21 figure out who's replacing.
22 CHAIR AITKEN: And I think what's important about that
23 is we have to -- the Equestrian Center tenants need to
24 understand that we have a set of standards that is going
25 to -- everybody is going to have to comply with.
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1 Whether it's tarps, whether is access to tack
2 rooms. There is no opt out. And so to the extent and
3 these are, again, as we are going to try to set up ground
4 rules, we're going to need to make sure that the operator
5 is informed and we're all doing -- so that we can check
6 off every barn aisle and everything that's out there and
7 no one is doing anything on their own in the middle of the
8 night and saying, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. We did that."
9 We need to have someone from the Fair staff or
10 from Rick's department there to kind of make sure we're
11 all doing the same thing.
12 CHAIR BAGNERIS: I had no idea what was going on at
13 the Equestrian Center, so this has been really eye-opening
14 for me and really good. I don't even know how many
15 tenants we have on the property and what is the
16 communication from the tenants to the operator. And so
17 this is a great conversation. And I agree with that
18 communication plan. This is all a part of it.
19 MS. SEARS: And Barbara, I think what's really
20 important is to get all parties agreeing that safety
21 issues is number one. I think everybody is number one.
22 No one wants a fire. I think everyone wants to be safe.
23 I think what we need is clear direction and, you
24 know, just being involved in this property since, you
25 know, the late 90s or before. But I think the Equestrian
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1 Center has been a stepchild. And you know, we're turning
2 into a real child. And that's -- we've been waiting to
3 have this conversation for about 15 years, so it's a good
4 thing. But safety, I think, it's number one.
5 MR. KARNS: So for clarity on that as well -- I know
6 it's going back to the Board to give staff direction --
7 how is it for the contract? Who's paying? We're not
8 sitting in our hands waiting on that. We are doing the
9 homework. We are getting the contractors to quote stuff
10 so that when the decision's made, we can move forward. So
11 we're not sitting in our hands just waiting for that.
12 CHAIR BAGNERIS: And with 22 days until the Fair?
13 Good.
14 CHAIR AITKEN: Yes?
15 MS. KASULAS: Just as a side note. Of course, we
16 don't have a timeline on any of this, but regarding the
17 shade clothe, there's, like, white horses, grey horses --
18 they can burn. They'll get sun burned.
19 And that's an important kind of -- so we do need
20 that shade cloth within a timely manner so that the horses
21 in the summer time and, you know, here it's going to be
22 really sunny until, like, October. That's something to
23 consider as well because it's not fair.
24 CHAIR AITKEN: No. We're not going to take anything
25 down.
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1 MS. KASULAS: I understand that. I'm just talking
2 about --
3 CHAIR AITKEN: We need to find a solution and then
4 make sure that everybody complies with the solution.
5 MS. KASULAS: Right. But there's no lengthy timeline
6 where the horses wouldn't be uncomfortable or --
7 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Has the operator been notified that
8 we have a shade issue?
9 MS. KASULAS: It just came up in the report. The
10 fire --
11 CHAIR AITKEN: They have shade up there now.
12 MS. SEARS: We got to report two days ago, or Monday,
13 I guess, is when we got the report.
14 CHAIR AITKEN: There's shade out there now, Barbara.
15 What they're saying is that the fire marshal doesn't -- is
16 questioning whether the shade that's currently up there is
17 fire retardant. The concern is, if I'm hearing it
18 correctly, is they don't want us to go down, cut all these
19 canopies down, and not replace with anything until we get
20 around.
21 MS. SEARS: And we're working through it.
22 CHAIR BAGNERIS: And we're not going to do that. The
23 operator is going to do that.
24 CHAIR AITKEN: I understand. But that was the
25 concern.
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1 MS. SEARS: But don't take anything down, please.
2 CHAIR AITKEN: Yes?
3 FEMALE SPEAKER: I just wanted to make something
4 clear. I want to understand a little bit better, but we
5 have children in our program -- that come in our program
6 all the time, at least 80 kids.
7 But our concern is horses and our children, but I
8 could see all the parents and the children are very
9 worried about taking down the shade. Pretty much since
10 this week has been talking about taking it down because
11 we're still searching for the certificate saying that it's
12 fire proof.
13 Are we supposed to take it down? We're working
14 on taking it down tomorrow, but are we supposed to just
15 take it down and wait until you find a solution or are we
16 waiting up until --
17 CHAIR AITKEN: Who told you to take it down tomorrow?
18 FEMALE SPEAKER: This is the only time we have to take
19 it down over the next couple of weeks.
20 MS. KRAMER: Let Jerry speak to that.
21 MR. ELDRIDGE: So the fire marshal on his report was
22 received on the 1st of June. I gave that out to the
23 tenants.
24 It states that they have 30 days to resolve all
25 issues. If they are not resolved, then I need to write a
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1 letter asking for an extension. That's why I got an
2 extension written for the fire safety system. And if we
3 are not having that complete within -- by July 1st, I need
4 to know because I need to add that to the letter that's
5 going to the fire marshal.
6 CHAIR AITKEN: Why don't we -- out of abundance of
7 caution -- do that. Does anyone disagree with that?
8 MS. KRAMER: I think that's the right thing to do.
9 CHAIR BAGNERIS: And Rick knows all about everything
10 that's happening right now on the property.
11 MS. SEARS: He has the list and we all got the list.
12 So I got it, too.
13 CHAIR AITKEN: Yes?
14 FEMALE SPEAKER: I think what she's saying is we're
15 kind of worried about the shade. That also, like, it's
16 getting warm now and all of a sudden we have to unplug all
17 our fans.
18 So we're at a panic mode to think, okay, that the
19 fans were in there. They were cooling the horses on hot
20 days from when the peak sun comes out. Our lesson people,
21 our kids, our parents -- they're under the, you know, the
22 canopies with fans going on them.
23 And then all of a sudden because of the fire
24 marshal, we had to unplug everything. And so now it's,
25 like, okay, when is that going to be fixed to where we
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1 have our fans cooling horses again versus losing our shade
2 all of a sudden too.
3 So we're kind of like, we're not sure what you
4 guys want to do, and, you know, we're out there and
5 patience, but it's an issue that we're kind of going like,
6 well, can we trust you as far as fixing these matters
7 without suffering.
8 CHAIR BAGNERIS: And so I'm starting to sound like a
9 broken record. And so you contacted the operator and said
10 we have this concern because the fire marshall said we had
11 to take these fans down. You contacted the operator and
12 he knows and he's giving you some directions as to what
13 should happen, not the Fairgrounds.
14 MS. SEARS: Well, Barbara, here's the issue: The
15 greater issue is -- at least when I look at this fire
16 report -- I think the thing that jumps out at me the most,
17 almost everything is correctable. I mean, you have the
18 fire alarm, obviously, and the tack rooms.
19 It's the electrical upgrades. Okay. Those are
20 upgrades that are -- that's requiring permits. That's
21 requiring experts. That's not some -- we can't -- they
22 may do with what was back in the 70s. They may do. So
23 now we have to make that determination.
24 CHAIR AITKEN: What is deferred maintenance and what
25 is the operator's responsibilities? I mean, this is
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1 something that I'm assuming is part of -- and that's why I
2 was going to look at Jerry for just a moment and say,
3 "Tell me more about these fans."
4 MR. ELDRIDGE: So the fans are the only thing that can
5 be plugged into an outlet is your appliance. So what we
6 asked the -- well, the fire marshal is asking us to do is
7 unplug the fans, not remove them. None of them, that I
8 know, have been removed. So when you want to use the fan,
9 you plug it in. When you're done, you unplug it. It's
10 not a fixed appliance as a refrigerator that needs that
11 constant power.
12 MR. KARNS: And long-term solution is to have them
13 hardwired. So if it's not an -- it's a matter of
14 connecting them permanent versus plugging and unplugging.
15 That will require an electrician. So in the interim,
16 there's that immediate solution. And then long-term,
17 who's getting an electrician?
18 MR. ELDRIDGE: I don't think that the electrical -- if
19 your usage is the same from the 70s, which is barns and
20 tack rooms, we haven't built anything that isn't -- that
21 is requiring more power. So what the usage is or the
22 upgrade is the hardwiring itself that you want to plug it
23 on a switch. That turns everything around.
24 MS. SEARS: So are you saying, Ken, that you unplug
25 them and when they want to use them during the day --
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1 because you're not going to keep your fans on at night --
2 they can plug them in?
3 MR. KARNS: Right. And that is just a real interim
4 solution to satisfy the fire marshal. Long-term;
5 hardwired, on a switch, and who's doing it? Who's paying
6 for it?
7 MS. SEARS: Got it. Got it.
8 CHAIR AITKEN: Is that going to be part of our
9 discussion?
10 MR. KARNS: I think it should be all encompassing. If
11 we're going to jump in, we jump in and let's go. And if
12 we're not, then Rick needs to know.
13 MS. SEARS: So, Ken, it's not the load?
14 MR. KARNS: It's not the load.
15 MS. SEARS: Got it. Okay. I didn't understand.
16 MR. KARNS: You can plug your refrigerator. When a
17 fan becomes part of the structure of the building, part of
18 the building needs to be hardwired.
19 CHAIR AITKEN: Reggie?
20 MS. MUNDEKIS: Two things: The entire facility needs
21 to meet power demands because power demands have increased
22 substantially since the 70s. Because back in the 70s, for
23 example, everyone didn't carry a laptop, a phone, and a
24 tablet with them at all times.
25 For example of that, you have to reach any place
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1 in the room with a four length -- four foot length of
2 outlet cord, which in some rooms, would double the number
3 of outlets in the room.
4 So the Equestrian Center is simply symptomatic of
5 the condition of the rest of the property. As an example
6 of the lack of power in the property, Cirque du Soleil,
7 when they came in and there was a big deal made about the
8 10-year contract with Cirque du Soleil, they wanted to
9 plug into utility power instead of using generators
10 because Cirque du Soleil has raised a concern about the
11 environment. And generators run on gasoline or diesel
12 fuel, and they want to reduce greenhouse gases. And they
13 were told that they couldn't plug into utility power.
14 We need to look at upgrading the power system of
15 the entire Fairgrounds because the issues with use of
16 extension cords and plug splitters and surge suppressors
17 is everywhere on the property. And we really need to look
18 at that. Maybe that's something that we need to unpack in
19 a buildings and maintenance committee meeting similar to
20 this.
21 I would also like to ask that we have a similar
22 meeting regarding Spectra. Because in the fire marshal
23 report and in the Fair Services Authority Report, there's
24 16 facilities, which are managed by Spectra, which have
25 identified as having problems. There are eight problems,
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1 are shared -- who are both Spectra and the Equestrian
2 Center -- have the identical problem.
3 And of those 16 facilities managed by Spectra
4 that have problems identified by the fire marshal and by
5 the California Fair Services Authority, six of those
6 buildings are on their second notice to get those problems
7 resolved.
8 CHAIR AITKEN: I don't doubt you, but we're going to
9 need to put that on the parking lot because it doesn't
10 affect what we're talking about today.
11 MS. MUNDEKIS: I know that. I'm just bringing it up
12 so we know we're putting it in the parking lot and we can
13 figure out how we're going to unpack that later because
14 that has to be discussed because there's also contractual
15 issues with Spectra that need to be discussed as far as
16 their meeting contract.
17 CHAIR AITKEN: Yeah. And I don't disagree with you.
18 I'm just saying let's just focus what we have.
19 MS. SEARS: Is solar a good thing to think about? Is
20 that a good thing?
21 MR. KARNS: Solar is a great thing long-term. It's a
22 big subject. It starts with structural and then moves
23 into how you -- how you utilize it. Whether you sell your
24 power, use your power, any way. It's a fun, exciting,
25 project to take. It takes a long time, but --
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1 MS. SEARS: So I guess the question is: Is the
2 Equestrian Center a candidate to maybe look at solar?
3 MR. KARNS: Everything's a candidate to look at.
4 First thing to look at is structure and load.
5 FEMALE SPEAKER: They do have it at the Del Mar
6 Fairgrounds.
7 CHAIR AITKEN: Okay. Does anyone have any more
8 comments just on No. 6 before we move to utilization,
9 integration, and community givebacks?
10 (No response)
11 Okay. So this will probably be the --
12 MS. SEARS: We have a big ol' check list for six.
13 CHAIR AITKEN: Yeah. But I think this is kind of
14 going to be where everyone -- for the 30 people in here --
15 we may have 30 different ideas.
16 So, you know, I'm going to -- what I think what
17 we want to do is really talk about what do we want the
18 Fairgrounds to look like. Is integration possible and is
19 it something that would work for the property, and then
20 how do we answer the questions about community give backs.
21 And something I know we've spit balled around a
22 lot is when we talk about the future of the property and
23 potential integration of the property. Who is the
24 stakeholder to really weigh in on these ideas, and how
25 much weight do we give -- to give everybody.
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1 Obviously, I think the community and those that
2 are users of the property are an important stakeholder,
3 the Board, and I think their vision for the greater
4 property is going to be an important stakeholder. And
5 that's going to be -- that's going to be implemented by
6 the staff and the people that are here to carry out
7 whatever the final Board decision is.
8 So with that in mind, you know, I think what
9 we're going to have to figure out at the end of this
10 process is how -- what do we want it to look like now that
11 we have affirmation that it's going to stay and how much
12 integration is even possible, and then what are we going
13 to require back from the operator and from the tenants as
14 we go forward.
15 Because there's been a call for a lot of
16 investment from the Board, but that's going to then come
17 -- going to be need to match with more involvement from
18 the community. They're going to answer the narrative that
19 it's not -- it isn't its own separate thing and it's not
20 involved in the community.
21 So I know we have some of the Fair Board -- I'm
22 sorry -- some of the tenants out there have already
23 started doing some research out at the equestrian-related
24 community programs, have pulled together a lot of ideas
25 and different things that are going forward.
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1 I would like someone that's going to be more
2 knowledgeable than me that is a tenant operating at the
3 Equestrian Center to maybe report back at our next meeting
4 about where we are with these. We have some programs that
5 are going on now that I reported on at the last Board
6 meeting, but if we're going to start talking about, either
7 expansion, integration, we're going to need to have some
8 more innovative programs -- new programs, someone that's
9 familiar with potential grants that could fund some of
10 these things.
11 So I would like to have someone take ownership of
12 that aspect and open it up to a broader discussion about
13 what we want it to look like and how we can integrate it
14 with the rest of the property during fair time.
15 MS. SEARS: So, Ashleigh, may I just weigh in. You
16 know, we could jump to that, but I think -- I think, in
17 knowing a lot of the equestrian centers throughout this
18 whole county and the public ones because this is a public
19 facility -- and what we -- we want to make this the model
20 of, like, okay.
21 This is, like, there's a lot that can happen
22 here. Where's my friend Barbara? Because I want her to
23 hear this. The only way you can have programs and a lot
24 of give back is without having the horses here, we're not
25 going -- there's nothing to do. Okay.
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1 It's like in my community, I mean, people say,
2 "Oh, let's get an arena. Let's have trails and whatever."
3 You know, a really smart person told me the only way that
4 we're going to have a vibrant equestrian community is we
5 have to have to have horses. Without horses -- you can
6 have an arena, but there won't be any horses in them.
7 So horses. Let's just start there. But the
8 model that we have, the existing model, I think it's
9 important to acknowledge that -- well, first of all, we
10 all know that the equestrian facility was built about 40
11 years ago by the vision of a board that wanted to have a
12 vibrant equestrian facility here, and that was a big
13 thing; horses have always been here.
14 And then we have this turbulent period from about
15 2000 on to 2008, and we know that 10-year history of just
16 trying to get rid of the whole place, not just paving over
17 the Equestrian Center, but losing half of the facility.
18 And I remember when they took down those last four barns.
19 That was that was really bad.
20 But we're out of that period now, which is fine.
21 And I am very grateful to the fact that the Hansons
22 were -- the operator that stepped in -- specifically, Ron,
23 to hold the line on this equestrian facility and continue
24 to manage it day-to-day when there were at times hardly
25 any horses there, and making the payments and keeping that
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1 thing going.
2 So they have a proven track record of operating.
3 That's what they do. They're great operators. They know
4 the industry and they know what's required -- footings,
5 and you name it. They have a long history.
6 What they don't have is they don't have a history
7 of really working on these programs and the non-profit
8 side. And the trainers have been -- they've been very
9 resourceful. And having all these different programs and
10 whatever -- they haven't formalized them, you know, in
11 maybe the manner we would like them to see but I know
12 they're doing them on a regular basis. So they are doing
13 the give back and what have you.
14 So I think we're going to have to change the
15 business model a bit. We still need someone to operate
16 the place and make sure the horses are fed and the bedding
17 is clean and what have you. And I think that's
18 absolutely, positively -- I hope you heard everything I
19 said so far, Barbara.
20 CHAIR AITKEN: She'll read the transcript later.
21 MS. SEARS: I'm talking about the model. And I think.
22 We're going to have to do a slight -- just a bit of a
23 change. I think -- so you keep the operations with
24 someone that does it, and you define it, and, you know,
25 you make sure that we have some safeguards in there as far
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1 as, you know, the rental rates there, so there's
2 predictability for people that are using this public
3 facility.
4 I mean, that all plays into this. And I think
5 there's ways of doing that. That's a longer discussion.
6 But the other thing is having someone that handles and
7 coordinates the program, like a program manager. The
8 person -- and I don't know how this looks. So this is
9 just throwing it out there. But having a program manager
10 that works through all the different programs that
11 collaborates, and coordinates, and what have you.
12 That person is also maybe someone that goes and
13 looks for grant funding. Looks for how do we add more?
14 How do we bring this posse group in? What can they offer?
15 What would the county -- what would the county contribute?
16 Those are little details, but when you take it, you add
17 all -- you add those resources up. You really get, like,
18 a whole system of programs that can serve so many.
19 But you need to have that person because I don't
20 think we can lay it out on the Hansons because that's not
21 what they do. They do operations. That's what they're
22 good at. They can maintain. They can keep the place
23 running. I'm putting out an idea. We need to have
24 someone to coordinate that, and then also coordinate it
25 with the whole property.
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1 Integrate it with the veterans. When we have
2 Veteran's Day, there should be horses at the Heroes Hall.
3 I mean, come on.
4 CHAIR AITKEN: Well, do you envision that being a new
5 staff position that we're trying to hire through the State
6 that's doing grant writing, that is doing -- kind of
7 overseeing what would potentially then be Fairground
8 ownership of horses?
9 MS. SEARS: No. I don't think -- first of all, I
10 don't think the Fairgrounds should own horses. I think
11 that is super problematic. I think you're better off
12 figuring out how -- you already have people taking care of
13 horses. I don't want to create a level of frustration.
14 Having a horse is not an easy task. And having a
15 safe hoarse is the same. But it's somebody -- and I don't
16 know who it is. It's a discussion. It's something to
17 talk about.
18 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Yeah. And it's something that we've
19 been talking about because when we're getting ready to
20 have our budget review, they're going to presenting
21 programs and ideas to utilize equine therapy and those
22 kinds of things.
23 I really, really love community programs. And
24 what a lot of people don't understand is, that means we
25 have to budget for it and pay for it. It's free to the
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1 public, but it's paid for by this organization. So I'm
2 excited about that. We already have a lot of that
3 program. And if you don't -- that's what I want. I want
4 to add.
5 But, of course, we'll do a budget process. Once
6 that budget is approved, we can moved forward with those
7 activities. We'll know how many people we need to hire
8 for the staffing. Now, I'm not opposed to owning horses
9 and I'll tell you why. Because the horses, from what I
10 understand, they belong to people. And if you're out
11 there teaching lessons and we have an equine program and
12 horses aren't available for us to have the program, we may
13 have to buy horses. And I don't have a problem with that.
14 We take care of cows, chickens, pigs, all kinds
15 of animals. So to me, they can always be available. When
16 we do have a Heroes Hall program and we would like to have
17 horses, we can go grab our horses and bring them on site.
18 So I don't have a problem with us owning horses.
19 But all of that has to be a part of the budgeting process
20 as we move forward. But this is music to my ears when you
21 talk about expanding community access. It's free to the
22 public, but it's being paid for. If we have to hire some
23 of the trainers to be part of the program, they're already
24 available. So it's a win-win for me and for everybody.
25 MS. SEARS: It's a sorting out of the model, Barbara.
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1 And I don't know the exact answer. I mean, we may have --
2 we may say to -- and I know the mounted unit throughout
3 the county -- the different policing agencies -- they have
4 mounted units. I'm very familiar with them because I have
5 friends on the mounted units.
6 A lot of them have difficulty because they have
7 no place to really train, and their horses are all over
8 the place. We may have have a barn of just mounted unit
9 horses. And often, they would care for them. Often, they
10 want something for their horse to go do. You don't know.
11 CHAIR AITKEN: Okay. To me, I'm about 50,000 --
12 starting at the 50,000 foot level; right? Which is what
13 do we, on a grand scale, want? Sounds like we're all
14 talking about expansion because, you know, my personal
15 goal and what I would really like is to see integration
16 from the Equestrian Center now to that action sports arena
17 so that's it's used 12 months out of the year.
18 Now, there's a lot of things in between that,
19 which I know with the Master Site plan there's been
20 discussion about moving some of that, relocating things to
21 different parts of the property. So if we do all of these
22 things, I love the law enforcement aspect of it. And I
23 love growing the community activity footprint, but then we
24 need to buy in and have commitment that we got to put
25 these horses somewhere.
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1 So that means we're going to then be building
2 more barns, and we're going to have to be able to justify
3 the expense of where are we going to be adding all these
4 barns, and that means we're going to need a commitment
5 from these groups to bring their horses there. Because
6 the last thing we want to do is expand and build a bunch
7 of barns and then they're empty.
8 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Or we start having horse shows.
9 CHAIR AITKEN: So we need to really start talking
10 about everything in between the action sports arena and
11 the Eq. Center, and that's what we're going to need, I
12 guess, staff to really kind of talk about right now.
13 What are we talking about moving? What are we
14 talking about -- where could we potentially put things?
15 What's in there now and where can that go? Do we have
16 that conceptually built into this concept area that we're
17 trying to build. Because it sounds like we're all --
18 yeah. But there's things there now.
19 MS. SEARS: No, but there things there before. I can
20 address this. First of all, I could tell you the mounted
21 units used to patrol always this property for years during
22 the Fair. I mean it was -- it was just -- the amount of
23 units show up, whatever.
24 So what happened on this property over 15 years
25 is it was just a hodgepodge of no planning; no planning.
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1 And they just took out barns and just added stuff and no
2 one knew, but this is what it used to look like when it
3 was a vibrant period of time. And you have this already.
4 And I think nobody is going to know it better
5 than horse people. Horse people understand and there is
6 a -- if you look -- everyday, you can't look at a
7 newspaper or see an add on TV and there's not a horse.
8 And just everywhere you go, there's no horse. And I'm
9 just, like, whoa. That's pretty amazing.
10 So I think we have a -- there's an interest in
11 horses and in ownership. I know that's in my community
12 for sure. So I think to have that here is, you know,
13 we're just -- we're just restoring, basically, a period of
14 what was, you know.
15 MS. BEAVER: Theresa, now is a good time to --
16 MS. SEARS: Yeah.
17 MS. BEAVER: I just have a couple of these. This is a
18 work in process. If I can share these for now.
19 CHAIR AITKEN: Thank you.
20 MS. BEAVER: It's some pictures of the -- historical
21 pictures of the Equestrian Center. Some now, some that
22 were -- some of these show the horse shows that used to
23 be. So it used to be the Orange County Horse Show
24 Association -- had their shows here.
25 This is a picture of what it looks like now, and
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1 the page just before that is a picture that was actually
2 my horse in 1985, and you can see the parking lot. So
3 it's right across from the parking lot and this is what
4 you see now, which is a bunch of storage and stuff there.
5 So any way, you just see some pictures. So it's
6 something that we're working on and in terms of a book.
7 So this is like a draft at this point.
8 MS. SEARS: Do you want to say who you are?
9 MS. BEAVER: Oh, sorry. I'm Carolyn Beaver. When all
10 this discussion started going, I just got involved as an
11 interested party and we've had a lot of discussion about
12 what can be done in terms of therapy programs and that.
13 And there are a number of programs that are
14 currently, but different trainers do different things.
15 And so Theresa's point -- one the things that we've thrown
16 out, there could be a -- let's say -- 501(c)(3) created --
17 organization -- created.
18 That would be kind of an umbrella organization
19 that then that organization is going to have a program
20 director that would do the type of things that Theresa was
21 talking about and really coordinate with all of the
22 trainers, and to use in essence, kind of, contract with
23 the different trainers.
24 And maybe at some point hire somebody else to
25 have another program. And if you think about -- if you
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1 really have a specific program for PTSD for veterans, for
2 example, with PTSD, you may not want that program to be
3 right where there's a lot of little girls. Or if you have
4 a program that's serving some sort of an anger management
5 or people that have just been released from prison or that
6 sort of thing.
7 We have to think about all of the users; right?
8 So there's things --
9 CHAIR AITKEN: Maybe that's the dedicated ring.
10 MS. BEAVER: Exactly. So maybe that's the dedicated
11 right. And the other this is -- some of you probably
12 heard before that many of us would really like to have a
13 covered arena because we all know that we have weeks that
14 we can't ride at all because the arena, you know, when it
15 rains and we can't ride.
16 And having a covered arena is something that's
17 important so that we do still have a place to ride. But
18 there's a lot that we can do and working together --
19 that's something --
20 CHAIR AITKEN: And I think that will be happening -- I
21 know we went through this very vibrant discussion with
22 Heroes Hall. So we've been down this road before.
23 There's a model there. There's been concerns with how
24 much we should be doing, so I think it's something that we
25 can look at and address -- what are the different
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1 frameworks that are available?
2 I know in some of the material that I was given
3 even about the Compton Junior Posse, I believe that that's
4 what they do. What we have right now is trainers who's
5 primary functions is running our own barns, trying to --
6 at the same time do something. And that may not be a
7 long-lasting model.
8 The second question I want the equestrians to
9 look into and get back is, there are 501(c)(3)s. Lisa is
10 not here, but I mean, Lisa, I believe, doesn't -- she
11 might already have a 501(c)(3).
12 MS. SEARS: She works through a 501(c)(3).
13 CHAIR AITKEN: Okay. And if there's something already
14 there, maybe we can expand. I don't know what our
15 legal -- expanding that so that we don't have to duplicate
16 resources. I do agree, at some point, we might want to
17 not have 15 different 501(c)(3)s down there. At that
18 point, it might make sense to bring it all in-house.
19 I know everyone has their hands up. I'm not
20 ignoring you. But that's going to be information -- maybe
21 at the next meeting, we can have a portion of the agenda
22 just focussed on 501(c)(3)s and a potential foundation
23 with that.
24 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Well, see -- I'm for it. I want this
25 property to have an overarching foundation so Heroes Hall
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1 could use it, Centennial Farm can use it, our community
2 programs, which is going to include whatever equine looks
3 like, and which we hire somebody to go out and do grant
4 writing; we would be looking out for the entire property.
5 And so this is, like, right in line with the
6 thinking we haven't been able to bring it to the Board
7 yet, but we're talking to the foundations that are on site
8 right now to try to see if we can get something done, so
9 excited about. What I don't want us to forget -- and we
10 talk about land use -- over 80 percent of the revenue for
11 this property comes from the Fair.
12 There has to be an element that includes how we
13 expand the use for the Fair without hurting the Equestrian
14 Center. And I don't want us to forget that because that
15 is so, so important. We need back-of-the-house space. We
16 heard that. We heard that. We heard that. So we can't
17 ignore it. But what is the answer?
18 Do we go find property somewhere off-campus to
19 take care of that need where we can have more land space
20 for the Equestrian Center? I don't know what the answer
21 is. But I'm hoping in the discussions -- that's part of
22 the conversation that we'll have -- make sure we put it
23 all out on the table. But this time, let's be done with
24 it.
25 CHAIR AITKEN: I'm going to take comments and then
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1 what I would like, I'm just going to warn Ken that I would
2 like him to talk about -- because a lot of these
3 conversations, we need -- are really going to be
4 determinant of what is there? What can we move? Where
5 can we put it?
6 So I'm going to circle back in a couple minutes
7 so you can just give an overview of what's there and what
8 potentially -- what flexibility do we have to move that to
9 different places. So I'll start with the back and I'll do
10 a big counter-clockwise circle.
11 MS. SEARS: Say your name.
12 MS. BROCK: Molly. Molly Brock.
13 MS. SEARS: Okay.
14 MS. BROCK: I'm a trainer. I like what you were
15 saying a couple minutes ago about let's get up on the top
16 and look at the big picture of what we want overall
17 because I think it's -- the programs are essential.
18 More obviously, utilization of space for these
19 programs, you know, where are these things going to go?
20 Within all that, we have to understand and this is super
21 important, I think this is one of the things that a lot of
22 are sort of going, "Oh, my God. How is it going to look?"
23 Because horses -- our horses have adapted to this
24 environment for the most part, but we're right along the
25 freeway. And I know they just took out some hedges along
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1 the side there along Newport Boulevard, and it is loud in
2 that. It is bang, bang, bang. Horses are freaking out
3 and people are falling. I had one lady break her thumb;
4 she doesn't want to ride anymore. It's a bummer.
5 But any way, and that's just riding. But if you
6 look at where -- just looking at the map every there -- if
7 you look at where we are, we're not going to complain the
8 entire time, but if we're going to expand and make it
9 better, let's talk about the things that happened right
10 next to our facility.
11 For instance -- and it's gotten better the last
12 few weeks -- I made a little comment that got into the
13 Orange County Register. They did an article right after
14 the vote that passed to keep us here -- about the fact
15 that right on the back side of the fence next to that back
16 arena, they had these giant -- and I don't know who's
17 decision it was -- but they had these giant big dumpsters.
18 And they had big heavy duty equipment taking huge tractor
19 loads of heavy rock and --
20 CHAIR AITKEN: Is that back here?
21 FEMALE SPEAKER: No. Right there. Right next to the
22 arena.
23 MS. BROCK: So the tractors were taking these huge
24 loads and dumping. And I have video of everybody in the
25 arena was filing out, like, "Bye. Can't ride." Can't
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1 ride. So all day long, this will be going on. Horses
2 will be freaking out. Horses will be spooking and
3 running. Seasoned older horses, you know, it's
4 terrifying.
5 So I think it's important that if we're going to
6 be here at all to make sure that we understand that there
7 might have to be -- and I understand there's a limited --
8 CHAIR AITKEN: Like a sphere of safety.
9 MS. BROCK: We don't people to just randomly fall off
10 and break their neck. We want to ride because it's safe.
11 Riding can be dangerous; right? We all know that.
12 Everybody is on top of it.
13 So let's try to do the best we can and
14 understand, like, putting a dumpster right next to the
15 fence, right next to a horse arena where little kids are
16 learning how to ride, it's not smart.
17 CHAIR AITKEN: And Theresa brought up a good point,
18 too. It's also about notice. So if we're going to be
19 moving -- dumpsters, I know there's a lot of storage
20 containers there. Just doing it during the -- maybe --
21 because they have designated times -- at least they did
22 when I was there -- let us know. They have designated
23 watering times when no one is in there anyway.
24 MS. BROCK: We're all a team. We want to make this
25 place better. Obviously, you know that. We fought for
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1 that, but we want to know that the Fair Board and the
2 executives want to make it good for us, too. It doesn't
3 have to be -- we all want to make it better.
4 CHAIR AITKEN: Is there anyone -- there was some
5 comments. Callie and then in the back. I know you've
6 been waiting very patiently.
7 MS. KASULAS: I did a -- Lianne Kasulas -- I did an
8 overview, which I was -- I just went and I did a quick
9 survey of what's going on in other parts, other
10 facilities, other programs -- Huntington Beach, other
11 stables around. It's not a complete -- an entire list,
12 but I did make out copies for everybody to give people
13 ideas about their operating budgets.
14 Myself, my background, I am a -- I run a
15 scholarship program for first generation kids from South
16 and East L.A. And when we started it, we were, like, it's
17 a little overwhelming. It's, like, we need to find out
18 what is the good motto.
19 So I think whether we invite these people to come
20 and expand their programs to this facility or we use them
21 because they've already done it. They've already made all
22 the mistakes. They've already have their successes. They
23 know what works and what doesn't -- talk to these people.
24 Maybe Compton Junior Posse wants to have an
25 outreach branch here. Maybe The Shea Center wants to come
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1 and bring some programing here, too. Because they all
2 want to do -- they all know the benefits. So maybe they
3 also want to expand. So here's just a quick overview. I
4 won't read it to you.
5 CHAIR AITKEN: Can you send this to me in electronic
6 form so that when we put together this list serve, we can
7 post it. I think with the photos, you have them
8 digitally. Just email them to me and copy Kathy or Ken.
9 That way we're all dealing with the same.
10 MS. KASULAS: And I think there's just so many
11 opportunities and it's really exciting to involve the
12 community and to bring all the people together. It's a
13 very exciting time. What I would like that coming from
14 somebody who runs a program, there's two things:
15 It would need to be some expansion, like, we're
16 talking about some extra spaces. Plus, also, a longer
17 term commitment. The Shea Center has quite a big
18 endowment. But if they're going to come in here and
19 invest and set up their program and set up what they want,
20 they're going to want some assurance that by the time the
21 next Board comes around or the next election cycle, that
22 there's going to be some permanent seed.
23 So whether that's a written agreement or verbal
24 agreement -- something that just says, if we want to
25 attract people to come, they have to go to their donors
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1 and say, "Okay. We want to have this program." They're
2 going to be like, "Well, I've heard of that Equestrian
3 Center is closing down. Whey would I want to give money
4 to that."
5 CHAIR AITKEN: That's a good valid concern. Callie?
6 And then Barbara had a comment.
7 MS. RUTTER: First, I wanted to just -- Barbara, you
8 had said something about keeping the back-of-the-house and
9 where we're located, it is loud enough. Like Molly said,
10 right next to the 55. So here for me to take a lesson in
11 the back arena, it is really loud. And so when my
12 instructor is, you know, screaming at me or whatever, it's
13 loud enough.
14 And I think to move, to find another place to put
15 the back-of-the-house is a great idea that you had.
16 Whether it's to have it on a separate property or move to
17 the back-of-the-house, but that would also be moving --
18 Arlington Drive looks so beautiful -- you would have to
19 make those 18-wheelers or whatever -- it is with those
20 huge -- you have to rip that up.
21 There's no way they'll be able to make that turn
22 to make it to the back-of-the-house. That's my immediate
23 concern with that and safety.
24 MS. SEARS: That happens -- that's a whole discussion
25 that's going to be like another group of people working.
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1 FEMALE SPEAKER: So I just wanted to kind of balance
2 off of Theresa and Ashleigh and your idea about
3 incorporating Heroes Hall, but the House just passed a
4 grant for $5 million for vets and equine therapy; not my
5 house.
6 MS. SEARS: Are you saying Congress?
7 FEMALE SPEAKER: Yes.
8 MS. SEARS: They're giving us the money? No.
9 FEMALE SPEAKER: So I'm super excited to incorporate
10 that into Heroes Hall. Also, I've noticed that the police
11 bike guys, they do their training there, too. They use
12 their motorcycles to do that, and then the mounted police.
13 Wouldn't that be great and then there's also --
14 so the PTSD training "When the War Comes Home" is a great
15 video. I don't know if you guys have seen it before, but
16 it's called "When the War Comes Home" and it's all about
17 equine therapy and different ways of approaching that.
18 There's also another one that the U.S. Department
19 of Veteran's affairs put out on equine therapy. It's
20 called "Military Vets with PTSD." They're both terrific.
21 But maybe that will be a great way to do that and then to
22 incorporate some of the Fair into that for people that are
23 wanting to go into public service and do those things, or
24 incorporate the Fair by doing expositions, like, our
25 non-profit OC Vaulting.
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1 I went and watched one of their sessions. These
2 girls are -- I mean, they run, jump, tumble and they stand
3 on these horses. I'm supposed to go try it -- grandma.
4 CHAIR AITKEN: I think in our next meeting, I think I
5 really want delve down just specifically on the 501(c)(3).
6 There's a lot of ideas, but we have to figure out what's
7 feasible, who's interested. I don't know if we even had a
8 change to contact all these people, but that would be
9 really helpful. Maybe there's no interest. Maybe there's
10 zero interest. We need to all kind of take a little task,
11 reach out, and bring it back.
12 CHAIR BAGNERIS: You know, I'm older now. I have to
13 think what I was going say. Oh, again, this communication
14 piece -- because I'm going to have to run -- communication
15 piece is so important. We talked about it when that fence
16 went up, and how everybody was up in arms, but the
17 operator knew about it. It just wasn't communicated out
18 to everybody.
19 So I think those kinds of things, we're going to
20 have to solve that and solve that communication thing.
21 Tenants talking to the operator, operator and our role
22 more so than we've had in the past so that we make sure we
23 have to coordinate on these activities.
24 This is a great facility and the horses have been
25 here for a long time -- I get that. But we need to make
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1 sure that we're expanding, integrating -- all of those
2 things -- and this Committee is going to drive us there.
3 And when you bring your report back to us, I'm looking
4 forward to great things, new things, and exciting things.
5 CHAIR AITKEN: And the communication piece is the
6 first thing that we need to fix. Because it's not about
7 -- it's not that Rick didn't tell the equines -- I didn't
8 know that. So it's both communication up and
9 communication down, and communication to people that
10 Theresa -- that doesn't maybe have a horse on the
11 community and so it wouldn't be subject to -- Rick has not
12 obligation to notify Theresa if something is going on.
13 So whether it's a closed Facebook page or a list
14 serve, email group, or whatever it is, we'll figure out.
15 Throw out some ideas. Figure out how we can do it because
16 at the end of the day, staff and the Hansons -- the Irish
17 talk with their hands -- at the end of the day, we need to
18 make sure that everybody is informed and so Ken is not
19 spending two hours of every day calling me, calling her,
20 calling everybody. We don't have time to do that.
21 So we need to make it as easy for staff as
22 possible to get out the information and I am less
23 concerned about whether under a contract I'm technically
24 entitled to that information. I think we're beyond that.
25 CHAIR BAGNERIS: And I don't think you need a private
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1 site. Everything should be public. It could be public.
2 MS. SEARS: You can opt in to be on that list if you
3 want.
4 CHAIR BAGNERIS: Or just it make a public
5 announcement.
6 DIRECTOR AITKEN: We just need a one-stop shop.
7 FEMALE SPEAKER: Don't put that in the minutes.
8 CHAIR BAGNERIS: I'm saying let's keep everything
9 pubic.
10 MS. SEARS: There's ways to do it, Barbara, but before
11 you leave, I just want you to hear one thing, I sit on the
12 Board of a non-profit for about 20 years and we are
13 actually -- it's an environmental group. It's in the
14 county -- we are the umbrella group for a lot of little
15 groups that are doing stuff all over the county and the
16 region.
17 And what we do is we support them. Many of them
18 don't want to be a non-profit, but they need to have,
19 like, a fiscal sponsor or they need direction or whatever,
20 and we -- it's 80. And we have a long history. We were
21 involved in getting $268 million on the M2 funding for the
22 OCTA and all of that.
23 So we have worked on big things. So I think we
24 already have, like, ideas of how to do it and I think
25 this, we can utilize a lot of that stuff. And it can
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1 happen.
2 CHAIR AITKEN: Yeah. There's models out there
3 already. We don't have to re-invent the wheel.
4 CHAIR BAGNERIS: I appreciate everything. I'm sorry I
5 have to leave, but great meeting. Thanks.
6 MS. SEARS: Are you going to D.C.?
7 CHAIR BAGNERIS: I don't know right now. I have to
8 talk to my doctor.
9 MS. SEARS: Okay. Great. Keep me posted.
10 CHAIR AITKEN: Because I think one of the things that
11 we're going to want to talk about at the next meeting,
12 too -- and I'm trying to keep it down to just three topics
13 so we can move forward -- is going to be the storage
14 options component to this. Whether it's off site, whether
15 it's others.
16 So can you let me know, Ken, just what is --
17 because I remember when the Master Site Plan, we were
18 talking about we need to redo these, the Millennium Barn,
19 and the livestock auction, and then there was talk that
20 some of these -- oh, my gosh. I'm too short -- some of
21 these things are -- maybe, potentially going to be
22 moving -- so what is here that's going to really be the
23 big potential problem to integrate these into one kind of
24 equine/livestock area? And I'm using those words
25 specifically because they are different.
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1 MR. KARNS: And I'm just providing an opinion. So I
2 think this association invested in the corporate yard and
3 the Spectra kitchen. So anything can move for any price,
4 but if we look at the sense of it, I would think those are
5 fixtures.
6 CHAIR AITKEN: Now, I thought at the last -- when I
7 was there for the Hatch Academy, and maybe I misheard, but
8 someone said that they were going to potentially move the
9 Spectra kitchen?
10 MR. KARNS: Oh, I've never heard that.
11 CHAIR AITKEN: Okay. So I made that up. Perfect.
12 MS. SEARS: So I was always understanding that Spectra
13 wanted to be closer to the Pac Amp? That's been sort of
14 their interest for a period of time? To be in a place
15 where they're serving their stuff within the areas verus
16 way out here?
17 MR. KARNS: Inside a concept of the Master Site Plan
18 was a community building that Spectra would use as part of
19 the new location of the Market Place. I could just say
20 that. So the relocate -- to my knowledge, no discussion
21 on the relocation of the main kitchen.
22 MS. MUNDEKIS: Which building is the main kitchen?
23 CHAIR AITKEN: I believe it's right there. And it's
24 beautiful inside. It's state of the start. We do tons of
25 community programming in and out of there -- the Hatch
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1 Academy, we got all the high school kids. It's a great
2 community space.
3 MR. KARNS: Yeah. You invested in that quite heavily
4 not too long ago, I believe, just two years ago. And that
5 kitchen's space and building is relatively new.
6 CHAIR AITKEN: And it's all enclosed. Even if we had
7 some type of -- this is just me spit balling -- but if we
8 even had some type of DG path connecting this to make it
9 seem like there's connectivity between these, that
10 wouldn't affect this because it's such a closed space.
11 MR. KARNS: How can we pull that forward, to delineate
12 that out so that there isn't crossover, as we encroach to
13 the west and get to the Action Sports Arena, I think
14 there's a way to do that. I truly do. If we look at how
15 many entrances do we need, what does a buffer between
16 back-a-house and front-of-the-house look like -- covered
17 arena, but, yes.
18 The two white tents and the three barns are
19 pretty tired. And then the the livestock structure could
20 get relocated and repurposed and then a covered show ring,
21 which then gets you closer to ASA -- and I'm just spit
22 balling, too -- that's a beautiful show ring.
23 So just based on some of the things that I've
24 done in some of my past with building a facility, we did
25 one and we were able to attract -- so anything is truly
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1 possible.
2 CHAIR AITKEN: In your professional opinion, would
3 this be the best candidate for doing a covered ring? And
4 that is a spit ball only because it's really expensive.
5 Or would you want -- that would make the most sense to me,
6 maybe, but but I don't know.
7 MR. KARNS: I think as a whole, what we look at is
8 what type of different multi-purpose facility you need for
9 different activities. One, an open arena for some of the
10 things that happen in fair time, versus a covered ring for
11 year-round equine. So we did attempt once in a facility
12 at home -- to try to do that under one roof. I'll tell
13 you what, the exhaust systems that you have to put in --
14 so I would just caution to get --
15 MS. SEARS: So, Ken, there's experts in this area that
16 deal --
17 MR. KARNS: Absolutely.
18 MS. SEARS: -- with these kinds of things. I mean,
19 maybe we need to find and hunt for a person that has this
20 expertise. I mean, they're out there. But they have to
21 be equestrian-oriented. It can't just be a guy that those
22 architectural things.
23 MR. KARNS: And no disrespect to equestrians --
24 Theresa knows I'm a horse person where I came from. I
25 spent my youth on a horse -- but I think, for me, there's
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1 an opportunity to integrate all types of equine into all
2 this, along with equestrian. I'm for more horse shows and
3 different things.
4 So inside that footprint, it's going to take an
5 experienced and creative person to take all this and start
6 plotting those blocks and see what it looks like and then,
7 ultimately, how does it affect the Fair and how can it
8 integrate and how it can operate. So some moving parts.
9 CHAIR AITKEN: Looks like there's potential for this
10 area.
11 MR. KARNS: There's some real estate there to --
12 CHAIR AITKEN: The ranch is staying? That's the
13 ranch?
14 MR. KARNS: Well, again, depending on whatever
15 decisions get made, we talked about efficiencies and
16 integration of staff, the ranch could stay or it could go
17 because we need -- we're disjointed from a staffing
18 standpoint.
19 MS. SEARS: So maybe if we had, like, a working
20 committee that can sort of throw out some ideas, some
21 options, so we can maybe -- because that's a different
22 program. Programs is one thing and then, like, a working
23 committee to kind of come through with some ideas here.
24 That might be helpful.
25 CHAIR AITKEN: Because we're going to have to come up
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1 with -- without -- there's no funding coming out of the --
2 we don't have the authority to fund all the architects or
3 what not. So we're going to have very creative. But I
4 need to know what's not possible, and what is possible.
5 And let the community know how we get to these decisions.
6 My last question, and then I'm going -- I know
7 Jerry wants to say something -- is there a reason why we
8 can't -- because we have all these things that have been
9 there since forever, since I was a kid -- that we can't
10 have those go some place else in another corner? Or even
11 more, like --
12 FEMALE SPEAKER: Further way?
13 DIRECTOR AITKEN: Yeah.
14 MR. KARNS: Every move is a chess piece. As we know,
15 affects -- it's not a black and white, yes or no answer.
16 Anything is possible, it's just understanding what it
17 affects.
18 MS. SEARS: And having a plan. You have to have plan.
19 Reggie had to say something, I think.
20 MS. MUNDEKIS: At the Equestrian Center, from what I'm
21 hearing people talk about, it needs sound walls. As a
22 buffer from the freeway noise and some of the other noise.
23 So maybe you need to fold that into your planning to give
24 you a better riding experience also make it less stressful
25 for the horses.
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1 The neighbors, they really like the Equestrian
2 Center because it's part of the agricultural use of the
3 property and it's a nice and quite use. And they would
4 like to see it better integrated into the neighborhood.
5 And as you look for more opportunities to tie
6 into non-profits and community programming, talk to
7 Newport Unified -- Newport Mesa Unified School District
8 because there's two schools across the street. There's
9 Davis Elementary, which is a magnet school, and then
10 there's Costa Mesa High School.
11 So you could talk to them about whether -- I
12 don't know if they're FFA or 4H over there, but if their
13 school programs want to come over to the Equestrian Center
14 for after-school programs or for field trips or if they
15 want to start a chapter of Pony Club or if they have
16 students who are interested in animal science -- coming
17 over and doing internships or working with trainers to
18 learn how to work with animals to, you know, be vets or be
19 trainers just to work with animals because you like them
20 -- and that could be something that could be a good pick
21 up for you guys.
22 On the storage issue, I understand why the swap
23 meet has storage containers in the parking lot. Because
24 you have these vendors who have large pieces of furniture
25 and bicycles that they sale every week, and they move them
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1 in and they move them out.
2 I don't know why there's this ruminant-fested
3 junk between parking lot G and the Equestrian Center. As
4 part of the Master Site Plan, we should look at storage
5 needs and building a warehouse; back-a-house somewhere or
6 instead of back-a-house along Arlington, there's the front
7 corner of the parking lot at the corner of Fairview -- at
8 the corner of Fair and Newport that nobody likes to use
9 because it's just -- nobody likes to park there because
10 it's too screwed up. And even when the parking lot is
11 full, nobody wants to use it.
12 So why not use that for some sort of storage.
13 And I do not mean shipping containers dropped on the
14 parking lot because that's disgusting. Either build a
15 container warehouse where you can do either the Costco
16 model where you have pallets on racks and you have them
17 tagged and inventoried so they get the forklift guy out
18 there and he pulls down the pallet from the top rack, and
19 brings it down and they unpack it and use it.
20 Or for longer term storage like for the carnival
21 which always drops things here for longer storage, you
22 give them those pods like we've all seen our neighbors
23 use. There's containers and cargo things. They work
24 wonderful.
25 You assign each department or each vendor a
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1 certain number of pods or pallets, and that way you know
2 how big your warehouse needs to be and there could be a
3 section of the warehouse for storage of odd-sized things
4 like some of the things you use for exhibits, like the OC
5 Fair letters and the giant chicken and the cow. But you
6 organize it and you give people space budget.
7 Because when I went back to look at that funky
8 little thing that's between the parking lot and the
9 Equestrian Center, it was -- they were, like, somebody
10 dumped a box of plastic spoons, there's empty food
11 containers, there was stuff that was, like, light posts,
12 broken water fountains, and then there was more junk in
13 some of those corners back there. I know a number of
14 these junk corners on the property, and that's what they
15 are.
16 MS. SEARS: I think, Reggie -- and, Ken, this might
17 help you out a bit -- because I think storage and staff
18 and they are, basically, they have suffered through -- was
19 the Fair even going to be here, okay. So they went
20 through the 10-year period of -- are they coming to work?
21 Not coming to work? They didn't know -- whatever.
22 And so nobody could actually think clearly. And
23 you can't really give them -- you can't really blame too
24 much on that. It's just a bunch of junk that got piled
25 and now it's time to clean up. And now it's time to spark
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1 joy. And that's what I'm hoping.
2 Jerry and I can work together for, like,
3 communicating and -- help his life a bit. You know, this
4 poor guy is out, like, he didn't know, you know. And
5 we've been through a lot in 10 years. Would you not say,
6 Jerry?
7 MR. ELDRIDGE: Yes.
8 MS. SEARS: And then nobody really knew. And I think
9 once we can relieve staff of, like, these heavy burdens,
10 then they can go do the things that they love doing. We
11 want to offer that same to youm Jerry, some relief. I
12 don't know if that helps you, Jerry.
13 MR. ELDRIDGE: I'd like to address Reggie's comments
14 about the pods. So those are pods. Those are storage
15 containers. It's not a junkyard over there. Every
16 container -- the Wine Society has a container. We have
17 containers. The events team has containers to hold and
18 store equipment and product that can't sit out on the sun
19 or shouldn't be out.
20 Just some of that area can we clean up? Yes. We
21 just went through and trimmed out all the trees and
22 cleaned that all up, so it's not really -- I don't think
23 it's what she states it to be.
24 But other than that, I wanted to address you. So
25 I've written a lot of years. I have a passion for the
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1 horses as well. I ride western.
2 MS. SEARS: Western is good.
3 MR. ELDRIDGE: So I do have compassion for you all and
4 keeping the Equestrian Center as well Ken sees it -- like
5 experiences from where he comes from with horses. So I
6 just want to make sure that you all understand that. Our
7 department, our staff, our people are not trying to do
8 push you out or make it too loud or uncomfortable on
9 horses situations.
10 So that area in the back over there is one of the
11 only areas that we have for storing when we have
12 underground water and we have to tear stuff out. That's a
13 place to hold material until we can -- we've been using it
14 for years.
15 So as soon as we heard that one of the people got
16 thrown when that dumpster was being loaded, we waited
17 until the morning, we cleared it out, so that wasn't a
18 problem anymore. So we're very attentive to what you guys
19 may need. I've been trying to work with Rick. I think
20 we've had a good relationship on that.
21 CHAIR AITKEN: Well, I think whatever form we decide
22 to go with, I think that will help you a lot. If you can
23 just let people be on notice, and then at the end of the
24 day, it's people's responsibility to check in. We'll
25 accept the duty and responsibility to provide notice, but
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1 at some point, you know.
2 MR. KARNS: Ashleigh, I want to give notice, we're
3 moving into Fair. I have to tell you. It's going to be
4 loud and there's --
5 MR. ELDRIDGE: So when you guys were talking about the
6 commercial kitchen, right next to it is our corporation
7 yard. We're dumping hundreds of trash cans into
8 containers to be hauled off for trash and it's very noisy.
9 Operationally, most of the day, our sand, our plant
10 material, all of our storage is in there. We've got
11 hundreds of trash cans. People are pulling around with
12 carts. And that's right next to the Equestrian Center --
13 or the commercial kitchen. That's just the west side.
14 So I understand the noise in the corner is loud,
15 but moving closer to that area, there's no way unless we
16 stop completely. That noise it goes on there because that
17 is our main dump facility for all trash that comes.
18 MS. SEARS: Is that facility, Jerry, was that a
19 permanent structure or is that portable? The corporate?
20 MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, the corporation is permanent. We
21 relocated. That was building 17 towards where the Hangar
22 was. So we relocated out to that space. The
23 corporation -- our side -- the S compacter containers,
24 yeah, we un-bulk them and they get loaded up and they get
25 hauled off.
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1 The sewer and everything that's designed to
2 capture any of the discharges and waste that go to the
3 sewer. It's covered so that storm water doesn't integrate
4 into the sewer. And so it's designed for what its purpose
5 is.
6 MS. SEARS: Well, it's great, I think, to hear from
7 Jerry because he's, like, he's the guy that's there every
8 day pretty much. But his willingness to collaborate. And
9 I think it's going to need that, Ken, who's the facility's
10 guy. And so everybody knows, we toured The Shea Center
11 several months -- maybe it was last year. I don't
12 remember. And we were looking at everything. And we were
13 looking at covered arenas. And we were looking at
14 footings and I didn't know this guy much.
15 I asked Ken, "Do you know anything about? Do I
16 really get into this and understand it myself?" And he
17 goes, "Oh, no. I know all about this. I've built it.
18 I've operated it. I've overseen it." So I said, "Great.
19 I don't need to know about it because he knows about it."
20 So I can assure you Ken understands that, sort of, side?
21 Am I saying that correctly?
22 MR. KARNS: I think you're bragging on me a little
23 bit. Let's get it on the record. Thank you.
24 MS. SEARS: The same goes for Rick Hanson. I've known
25 Rick for years. I know that he knows. I've been out to
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1 his center in San Juan. Rick knows what he is doing when
2 it comes to that. I'm not going to say Rick is our best
3 communicator, but he is absolutely the best if you're
4 looking for somebody to run an equestrian facility, the
5 Hansons a, you know, they have a stellar history. So
6 that's what I'm saying.
7 CHAIR AITKEN: Well, we can create the portal.
8 FEMALE SPEAKER: So there could be a closed group
9 portal?
10 CHAIR AITKEN: We don't know what it looks like right
11 now, but let me get with staff.
12 FEMALE SPEAKER: Safety is our first thing and these
13 ladies are trying to run a business. We have so many
14 little kids out there.
15 CHAIR AITKEN: Jerry understands. They know what the
16 watering schedule is. If we're moving stuff in and out in
17 the morning, there's a safe zone during lunch hour. It is
18 going to be louder and crazier. Sometimes we call it
19 coming to the nuisance.
20 So if anyone doesn't have any -- we don't have
21 any further comments right now, I think just for the last
22 one, the next step is -- the third Thursday -- just so we
23 have some buffer time built in before our regular schedule
24 Fair Board meetings is what I had picked.
25 Obviously, I intend to have another meeting next
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1 month, even though it will be in the middle of the Fair
2 just, so we don't loses momentum. And I will work with
3 staff, even if it's just me. I do agree with Reggie. I
4 think even if it's just me, and a staff person, we can at
5 least just report back and keep the ball moving.
6 And then in September or even August or September
7 try to do a night meeting so that people that are teaching
8 all day can also feel like they're part of the process.
9 And then the last month, September, is going to be about
10 writing a report so that our last meeting before that Fair
11 Board meeting, we are looking at the report and it gives
12 us a week to make changes before I report back to the
13 Board.
14 MS. SEARS: What Fair Board meeting is that?
15 CHAIR AITKEN: I think Barbara wanted us to have
16 something in August -- I mean, I'm sorry -- October. But
17 we need to have it down by our October meeting so that we
18 can weigh in. And even if you're not totally satisfied,
19 you know it's coming up.
20 But that would be my, kind of, and granted I try
21 to be as flexible as possible. I think this has been a
22 very helpful meeting, and I appreciate the collaboration.
23 I'm a little -- that's why I think it's important to be a
24 little bit loosey-goosey with public comment and what not
25 because I want you to feel like the whole thing is public
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 comment.
2 And so that's how I contend to have these
3 meetings. So if anyone doesn't have any further comments,
4 I think we got a lot to accomplish in the next couple
5 weeks.
6 First order of being, the communication, and then
7 can staff report back on where we are on these items. So
8 if anybody else doesn't have any comments. Do you have a
9 master email for all the trainers?
10 MR. HANSON: I have to check with Kurt, but I think we
11 do.
12 DIRECTOR AITKEN: Okay. Because it might be as easy
13 as getting it from Rick and then just putting it into a
14 document and then I can add either Lisa or whoever wants
15 to be -- I'm not comfortable just giving out people's
16 personal emails and information in a public sphere.
17 However, if we can get that list -- if Rick feels
18 comfortable sharing that with us, you know, we can send
19 something out and then it would be word-of-mouth. We'll
20 just have to post something there. We'll have something.
21 That's why I want to get with staff. I don't know if
22 people are on Facebook.
23 MS. SEARS: And Rick, I don't know if you email
24 your -- different people -- but I would think they would
25 want to opt in. Opt in and say, "Hey, here's your
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 opportunity if you want to opt in." Then at that point,
2 then that could be -- whatever.
3 And then, for instance, if they don't and if it's
4 Molly just gets it from -- and you guys are obligated to
5 get it to your people, and Molly gives it to her people,
6 and Lisa to your people. And you guys share amongst
7 yourselves.
8 CHAIR AITKEN: And maybe we just do a public website
9 where you want to check it, check it. We'll report back
10 on that and figure it out. Well, thank you everybody for
11 coming.
12 (Meeting adjourned at 12:08 p.m.)
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Hahn & Bowersock, A Veritext Company800.660.3187
1 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATION
2
3 I, the undersigned, a Hearing
4 Reporter of the State of California, do hereby certify:
5 That the foregoing proceedings were taken before
6 me at the time and place herein set forth; that any
7 witnesses in the foregoing proceedings, prior to
8 testifying, were duly sworn; that a record of the
9 proceedings was made by me using machine shorthand, which
10 was thereafter transcribed under my direction; that the
11 foregoing transcript is a true record of the testimony
12 given.
13 Further, that if the foregoing pertains to the
14 original transcript of a public meeting, before completion
15 of the proceedings, review of the transcript [] was [] was
16 not requested.
17 I further certify I am neither financially
18 interested in the action nor a relative or employee of any
19 attorney or party to this action.
20 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have this date subscribed
21 my name: June 28th, 2018.
22
23
24
<%signature%>
25 LUIS R. HERNANDEZ
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balance 69:1ball 76:4 87:5balled 48:21balling 75:7,22bang 64:2,2,2barbara 2:9 16:1
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