Sugya 2 Ones Bigittin 2b (1) Without Audio Uncut

Sugya #2

A Review of Rava’s Chiddush by Getאין אונס בגיטין

`

Ones – Circumstance beyond your

control

Gemara Contrasts

Excuse of ones by Get vs. Mezonos

Why would a person divorce his wife on condition?

• Rashi – to exempt her from the mitzvah of yibbum – – What is Yibbum?

• The mitzvah to marry her brother-in-law if her husband died without any children and to keep the “father’s name” alive

Why would a person divorce his wife on condition?

• During WWII it was very common for husband’s going away to war – to give their wives a conditional divorce (especially כהנים if I don’t come back in (12 months this should be a גט and you should remarry…

Terms - מוסגים

• Ein Ones Bigittin - אין אונס

– An excuse by get is NOT a good excuse• So the Get WORKS!

• Yeish Ones Bigittin – יש אונס

– An excuse by get IS a good excuse • So the Get does NOT work!

Terms - מוסגים

• Ein Ones Bigittin - איןאונס– An excuse by get is

NOT a good excuse• So the Get WORKS!

• Yeish Ones Bigittin – יש אונס– An excuse by get IS a

good excuse • So the Get does NOT

work!

How is the gemara attempting to prove “ein ones b’gittin”

• Rashi explains…If ones was really a good excuse the Mishna should have used a case of a person who does not return after 12 months due to a sickness

If the Mishna also felt Ones is a good excuse what should the

Mishna have said?

• If ones is a good excuse by get then the mishna should write “if a person is late due to “sickness” is not a get & I would know certainly “death” (which is a greater ones) is not a get!

Proving אין אונסבגיטין

Attempted Proof #3 for Rava

Attempted Proof #3 for Rava

Look, I am coming!!Look!!!NO!!!!!

Proof for Rava

• From Shmuel’s Psak– מכאן ועד שלשים יוםבאתיאם לא – Since שמואל says that the halacha is that the

“man trying to come” is not called coming – even though it is an אונס – nevertheless the גט is not בטל

– So we see the excuse of אונס doesn’t work or אין אונס בגיטין

Disproof #3 of Proof for Rava

There are two types of אונסין

• אונס שכיח– Common

circumstance beyond my control (פסקי מברא(

• אונס דלא שכיח– Uncommon

circumstance beyond my control (sickness)

Maybe I will tell you that there is no proof from שמואל thatאונס is not a

good excuse

• אונס שכיח– Common

circumstance beyond my control (פסקי מברא(

– In such an instance the excuse will not be accepted

– Therefore the גט will work

• אונס דלא שכיח– Uncommon

circumstance beyond my control

– But maybe even שמואל would accept the excuse of a REAL אונס that it would be an excuse – he would cancel the get – b/c יש אונס בגיטין

Why would שמואל say that an אונס?is worse דשכיח

דכיון דאיבעי ליהאיהו, לאתנויי ולא אתני

דאפסיד אנפשיה

• Since the husband could have made a condition “this גט will work in 30 days unless I miss the boat…” then he caused himself the “loss” (the divorce)

What does it mean that “he caused himself the loss”?

• Rashi- ה אונסא "ד: נדרים כז - Explains…– Since the husband refused to add a clause of

the “chance of the אונס of missing the boat” that we view that he REALLY WANTED THE !to work if HE MISSED THE BOAT גט

After the Gemara is unsuccessful in bringing a proof for Rava to say the gemara comes…אין אונס בגיטין

to a conclusion…

There

proOFRather it is Rava’s own סברה (logic)!!

Issue: צנועות - Extra Pious Women

If I don’t come back in 12

months…let this be a get..

Logic of the Rava

• If Ones was a good excuse• Issue #1: צנועות - Extra Pious Women

– If אונס was a good excuse then t’znuos would never get remarried…even if they would get a אונס since they would be concerned that an גטhappened (maybe husband was taken captive)and therefore the גט was cancelled

This concern is called עגונה

• We don’t want a woman to sit and remain alone – officially married but without a husband…especially if (in our case) a get was given

Logic of the Rava

• If Ones was a good excuse• Issue #2: פרוצות – Not Extra Pious Women

(Regular women)

– If אונס was a good excuse then peruztos would remarry with the get, but then the husband would arrive years later – say that his delay for not returning home was due to an אונס (which would cancel the get) and the kids would be ממזרים

Case of פרוצות

Concern is of children being ממזרים

• A ממזר is a child born to a forbidden relationship

• In this case, it is a child born to a woman (who is currently married to another man) with a man other than her husband

Tosafos Understanding

• T’znuos– Are not required to be

waiting the way they are

– They are being extra strict and being concerned for the minority chance that an אונס happened

– Since the majority of times an ones does not happen

• P’rutzos– 2 Opinions

• Are not so bad– Didn’t check into

rumors (honest mistake)

• Are really bad!– Knew an אונס

happened and intentionally mislead people into thinking she was divorced and remarry

Question on Rava’s Logic

The Gemara continues…

According to the Torah, what is the Halacha regarding an אונס?

Isn’t ones a good excus?

Throughout the Torah we find that …is an good excuse אונס

ולנערה לא תעשה. מת האיש אשר שכב עמה לבדוכי כאשר יקום איש על, אין לנערה חטא מותדבר

,כי בשדה מצאה. רעהו ורצחו נפש כן הדבר הזה. צעקה הנערה המאורשה ואין מושיע לה

Source for אונס in the Torah

• A man who rapes a girl is punished by death…but the girl…you should not do anything to…if she cried out, since there was nobody to save her (since it was an Ones)

This leads us to the Gemara’s Question…

Question on Rava

• If according to the Torah, אונס is a good excuse, that means that the גט according to the Torah is cancelled!!

=

How can Rava make a גט work if according to the TORAH it’s not a

!?גט

Can Rava go against the Torah to make a גט work (that shouldn’t) just

to protect these women?

Answer

כל דמקדש אדעתאדרבנן מקדש

The man says, הרי את מקודשת"

משהכדתלי "וישראל

What does it mean כדת משה?וישראל

• Rashi– כל המקדש אשה על דעת שהנהיגו חכמי ישראל

שיהיו קיימין קידושין לפי דבריבישראל הוא מקדשה על ידי גיטיןחכמים ויהיו בטילים לפי דברי חכמים

.שהכשירו חכמים– Whoever does קדושין to a woman does it

according to the mindset of the Rabbis of Israel, meaning, that the marriage should exist and become nullified according to the words of the Rabbis and based on the s of the Rabbis’גט

Can the Rabbis really cancel a marriage!!? In order to make this

!!?work גט

Yes, but it would seem to depend…

The Power of the RabbisUprooting the Kiddushin –

אפקעינהו

Why can the Rabbis undo a marriage that was done…

• Why it is easier to for the Rabbis to “undo” a marriage that began through כסף than a marriage that began through ביאה…

מה תהא על ביאתו

Explained by the Ritvahחכמים

היאך לא יחושו על ביאתו

ועושהמתנהמעות

מעיקרן

Rabbis are willing to undo even

the קדושין of ביאהAs it may not be

considered retroactivelyan עבירה

Rabbis can Make $ הפקר And all ביאותAre “on theirOwn” עבירות

But won’t wantTo make youruprooted ביאה

b/c an עבירה – because Then the Rabbis are

Directly making you doAn עבירה

Yes, they are willing toMake you do an direct

עבירה

RASHI

Argues on the statement of רבותי מפרשים

Saying that we learn out from the buying of מערת המכפילה the

use of money for kiddushin therefore כסף קדושין is clearly

from the Torah

Rabbis can

Undo כסף sinceIt’s דרבנן

Rabbis cannot undo קדושי since it is ביאהfrom the Torah

?

Explanation for the רבותי מפרשים

• Kiddushin with ביאה is not ideal– Gittin 33a – אמאן דמקדש בביאהמנגיד רב

• Rav would give lashes to one who would do so

– Kiddushin 12b – וחוצפה...הוי ביאת זנות ...• Gemara calls it “zenus” or improper relations

The Conclusion of the Gemara

• Explains לב שמח (Shoresh #2)– Since the Rabbis ultimately call this act of

or improper relations זנות an act of ביאהtherefore (even though technically it should be that is good according to the Torah it is קדושיןdowngraded to Rabbinic קדושין and therefore the Rabbis can “undo” it!