Transcript of Mark Sisson · 2019-08-08 · Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson 3 Speaker...

© The Bulletproof Executive 2013

Transcript of Mark Sisson

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

2

Warning and Disclaimer

The statements in this report have not been evaluated by the FDA (U.S. Food & Drug Administration). Information provided here and products sold on bulletproofexec.com and/or upgradedself.com and/or betterbabybook.com are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The information provided by these sites and/or by this report is not a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with your physician, and should not be construed as medical advice of any sort. It is a list of resources for further self-research and work with your physician. We certify that at least one statement on the above-mentioned web sites and/or in this report is wrong. By using any of this information, or reading it, you are accepting responsibility for your own health and health decisions and expressly release The Bulletproof Executive and its employees, partners, and vendors from from any and all liability whatsoever, including that arising from negligence. Do not run with scissors. Hot drinks may be hot and burn you.

If you do not agree to the above conditions, please do not read further and delete this document.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

3

Speaker1: BulletproofRadio.Astateofhighperformance.

Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today'scoolfactofthedaywillbecelebrated

potentiallybyhusbandseverywherebecausesciencenowhasproventhatyoushouldsleepnaked.Thereasonforthatisthatbywearingpajamas,you'reprobablyinterruptingyourbody'snaturaldeclineintemperaturethat'spartofyournightlycircadianrhythm.Also,whenyoucooldownatnight,itmeansyouincreasegrowthhormonesandyoudecreasecortisolwhichmeansyougetbettersleep,reducebellyfatandmoresexytime.Thatwasprobablymyfavoritecoolfactofthedayin300episodesorso.

Beforewegetgoingontheshow,youmightnotknowthatwehaveaBrainOctaneOil3packavailableonthewebsitewhichsavesyouabout$14whenyoustockuponit.BrainOctaneOilisasubsetofMCToil.Itturnsout,there'squitealotofMCToilouttherebutdifferentMCTsdodifferentthings.ThisisthemostketogenicMCTinexistence,madeintheUS.It'sawesomestuff.It'swhatIputinmyBulletproofcoffeeeverymorning.Youknowwheretogetit.Bulletproof.com.

Today'sguestisafriend,aguywhoseworkIgreatlyrespectandaninnovatorinthisspace.Oneofthefoundingfathersofthewholewayofthinkingforpaleo.Ifyou'rewatchingontheYouTubechannel,youalreadyrecognizehimprobably.It'snoneotherthanMarkSisson.Ifyou'realongtimelistener,youknowMark'sbeenonBulletproofRadiobutit'sactuallybeentoolong.He'sapaleoancestralhealthexpertandenduranceathleteandauthorofthebestsellingPrimalBlueprint.Ifyou'vereadthenotesinthebackofTheBulletproofDiet,you'llnotethatIthankedMarkforhisworkintheacknowledgementsectionbecausehisstuffislegit,includingMark'sdailyapplewhichgets3,000,000visitorsamonthwhichissizeblog.He'scertainlyabiohacker.

ThereasonI'veinvitedhimbackontheshowisthathejustcameoutwithareallycoolnewbookcalledPrimalEnduranceandIwantedtodiginwithhimbecauseheisbothabiologistbytraining,enduranceathleteandjustanasskickerinallthings.Mark,welcometotheshow.

Mark: Thanksforhavingme,Dave.Goodtoseeyouagain.

Dave: WhatmadeyouwriteabookaboutPrimalEndurance?IthoughtyoudidheavyliftingandyougoswimmingoutthereinMalibuandallthis.

Mark: No.It'sreallyinterestingbecauseforthelongesttime,Iwasanenduranceathleteformostofmycareer.That'showIlearnedalotofwhatIknowaboutfitnessanddietandexerciseandtrainingbutoverthepastdecade,I'vespentafairamountoftimetakingbackallthestuffIsaidabouttraininganddecryingtheconceptoftrainingformarathonsandlongdistancetriatholons

Dave: Chroniccardio.

Mark: …chroniccardio.ChroniccardiobecameatermthatArtDevanyandIcoinedabout11yearsago

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

4

nowtodescribethisactivitythatsomanyenduranceathletes,myselfincludedintheolddaysundergowhichisbasicallytrainingataheartratethat'sabout75to80%ofyourmaxheartrateforlongperiodsoftime.Alotofenduranceathletethinkthat'swhereyouneedtotrain.Asaresult,Isawitpersonally,mycareerbasicallyevaporatedbyIover-trainedbutthenIsawitinathletesIwascoaching.Peopletraintoohardandtheytraintoolong.Theyweren'tgettingtheresultsthattheysaidtheywanted.

IstartedwritingallthesenegativethingsaboutendurancetrainingandIstartedgoingalmostrhetoricallywhywouldyouwanttodothat?Whywouldyouwanttorunamarathonandbeatyourbodyupandincuralltheseachesandpains?

Dave: Thefirstmarathonerdied,right?

Mark: Yeah.Reallydidn'tbodewellfortherestofus.Then,asIgotintothelifestyleofthePrimalBlueprintandIstartedtalkingaboutallthewaysinwhichwenaturallyimproveendurancebymovingaroundalotatalowlevelofactivity,onlyliftingheavythingsonceinawhileandonlysprintingonceaweekbutreallygoingallout,notjustdoingintervalsbutgoingallout.

Istartedthinkacoupleofyearsago,there'salotofnewtechnologynow.Theabilityofthebodytoburnfatwhichweassumedforthelongesttimewasverylimitedandwereallyhadtorelyoncarbohydrateifweweregoingtobeatallcompetentinendurancecompetition.Thatchanged.Thiswholeconceptofutilizingketonesinsteadofglucoseandallowingthebraintoaccessketonesduringanendurancecontestandtonotfeellikeyouhavetoshutdown.Thatnewtechnologyhit.Then,someothertechnologieswithheartratevariability.Brockknowsalotaboutthat.

TheguywhoIcoachedforyearswhoisthenumber3triathleteintheworld,wholaterbecametheheadofmypublishingcompany,westartedtothink,"Well,maybethere'sawayinwhichwecanteachpeople,coachpeopletotrainfortheseendurancecontestswheretheydon'tgetbeatup,wheretheydon'tgetburnedout,wheretheydon'tgetover-trained,wheretheydon'tgetsickallthetime,wheretheydon'tgetinjured."That'swhatbegattheconceptofthisbook,PrimalEndurance.

Dave: Thatisanepicbiohack.ThewayI'vedefinedbiohackingischangingtheenvironmentaroundyouandinsideyousoyouhavecontrolofyourbiology.Iloveyourperspectiveonthis,Markbecauselook,Ididit.Irealizeditwasn'tgoodformebutIstillwantedtodoit.I'mgoingtodoitanywaybutI'mgoingtomakeitgoodforme.Allright.Thatisabsolutelygrabbinglifebythethroatandsaying,"I'mgoingtodoit.I'mgoingtodoit."

Greatrespectforthatperspective.IusedtobealongdistancecyclisteventhoughIweighed…Idon'tknowhowmuchIweighedatthetimebutIwascarryingatleast50extrapoundsthatweren'ttheframeofmyroadbike.Theyweremylovehandles.AsateenagerandIwastryingtoloseweightandgettingstretchmarksandall.Irememberthatfeelingofbonking,whenyou'relike,"Ididn'teatenoughmuffins.WhatamIgoingtodo?"Itwassohorrible.Ineverdidloseweightfromthatapproach,eventhoughI'msureIdidsomebeneficialthingsandprobablysomeharmfulthings,too.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

5

Hereweare.Forme,that's25yearsagoandyou'rewritingabooknowthatsays,actually,with

therightchanges,youcandothingsandhowendurance…Ultramarathons,isthispartoftheplan?Marathons?

Mark: Absolutely.Forme,personally?

Dave: Yeah.

Mark: I'mout.Idon't…

Dave: Me,too,bytheway.

Mark: Yeah.I'mnotinterestedincompetinganymore.Iwasaverygoodenduranceathlete.IfinishedfifthintheUSNationalChampionshipsinthemarathonin1980.IwentontofinishfourthatIronmaninHawaii.Thatwasthepinnacleofmysuccess.Actually,then,IalsosettheworldrecordontheVersaClimber,thatclimbingmachineinthegym,

Dave: Yeah.

Mark: …forthemileclimbinmylate30s.Iwasthataerobicendurance-based.

WhatIrecognizedwasthatmostofmytrainingwasconcentrated…Iwastrainingmyselftohurtandbeabletohandleit.Iwasn'ttrainingmyselftobeefficient.That'swhat'schanged.What'schangedhasbeenthisnotionthatifwecanalterourenvironmenttoupregulategenesthatassistusinburningfatsmoreefficiently,morecleanly,thatwecanincreasemitochondrialbiogenesis,actuallyincreaseamountofmitochondriathatwehave.

Dave: That'ssobig.

Mark: It'shuge.IncreasetheefficiencyofthosemitochondriabecausemitochondriahavetheirownDNAthatrespondtothesesignalssowecanputmorefatthrough,wecanunburdenthebodyofhavingtotakeinhugeamountsofexogenouscarbohydratewhichthenlowerstheloadoffreeradicaldamagethatwewouldotherwiseincur,puttingsomuchsugarthroughthebody.

Allthesethingscometogether,theyconvergetocreateanopportunityforpeoplewhoaregoingtobegoingatarelativelyhighrateofoutput.Whatweliketotalkaboutisthisreallyapplieswelltoultramarathonersandcenturyridersandtriathletes.Weknowtherearepeoplewhoaresettingrecordsnow,trainingketogenically,trainingwiththismethodologythatwe'reusingtosetpersonalbestforsurebutalsotostartingtosetworldrecords.Thosedistancesarecomingdown.Now,whilewesaid,"Well,itcertainlyappliestopeoplewhoarejustgoingtobeburningfatover12hoursor15hours."Now,itsapplyingtopeoplewhoaregoingtobeburningfatpredominantlyover2hours.

Ithinkthenextbreakthroughinworldrecordmarathoningwillcomefromaketogenicathletewhohasputthetimeinbecauseit'salongadaptationprocessattheelitelevel.Youget80%of

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

6

yourbenefitsinthefirst21days.Then,thenext10%mighttake6monthsandthefinal10%mighttakeanotheryeartokickin.Ifyou'reaneliteathlete,youhavetofactorthatintoyourcareerandhowmuchareyouwillingtotakeayearoffandtrainthiswaytocomebackandbestrongerthanallyourpeers.

Ifyou'reacitizenathlete,anagegroupathlete,whynotstartthisrightawayandgetmoreefficientatyourabilitytoperformworkatarelativelyhighlevelofoutputbybeingmoreefficientfromtheworkyoudidinthegymtrainingtosustainpower,fromtheworkyoudidatthetrainingtable,byeatingmorefatandcuttingbackonsimplesugarsandothercarbslikethatandbybeingreally,reallysmartaboutthetimeyouspendactuallytraininginthefield.

Dave: You'verejectedconsistencyfortrainingandyou'veaddedhugeamountsofvariabilityintoit?

Mark: Yeah.I'maskeptic.I'macynicactuallymorethana…Imean,I'm…

Dave: Screwthoseskeptics.They'renotstrongenough.Theycandobetter.

Mark: Yeah,exactly.Iquestionjustabouteverything.Certainly,that'swhatgotmemymonikeratMarksDailyAppleandthethingsthatI'vewrittenbecauseIquestionauthorityandIquestionconventionalwisdom.Whenwelookatallofthevariablesinputtingtogetheratrainingprogram,itturnsoutthathumansarefractal,thatourbehaviorpatternswerefractalovermillionsofyears,thatourbodyadaptstothatfractalnessalmostbetterthanitdoestoarotemetronomicconsistency.

Justasageneralruleofthumb,oneofthelittlebulletpointsonthebookisbemoreinconsistentwithyourtrainingtoracemoreconsistentlywell.Whatwemeanbythatis,ifyouhaveatrainingcalendarlaidout.Here'swhatI'mgoingtodoMondayandTuesdayandWednesdayandIhaveallmyworkoutsplannedforthenext2months,wehaven'tbuiltinalotofthenecessaryvariabilitytoaccountforwhathappenswhenyouwakeuponemorningandyoudon'tfeelright.Youstillgoingtodothatworkout?Yougoingtotakethedayoff?Areyougoingtoutilizethestrategyofheartratevariability?Justgiveyoucluesastowhatyououghtnotdo.

Conversely,maybeyouhaveadayplannedwhereit'saneasyday.You'rejustfeelinglikeyou'rejumping,chompingatthebit,there'snoreasonwhymaybeyoucouldn'tputtheFridayworkoutthatwasgoingtobeareallyhardworkouttodaywhichisTuesday.

Whatwe'reteachingiswe'reteachinganintuitiveabilityofeachpersontodigdownandunderstandhowthebodyworksandgrockhowtheenzymesystemsworkandhowtrainingworksothatyoucanintuitivelytraintoyourmaximumpotentialgiventhevariablesofhowmuchtimeyouspendworking,howmuchtimeyouwanttospendwithyourfamily,justyourgeneticlimitsbecausesomepeoplearejustnotgoingtoruna2hourand20minutemarathonandbutwe'retryingtoteachthroughthebookhere'showyoucansetupastrategythatyouknowallthesedifferentvariablesandyoucaninsertthemintoyourownpersonalequationandcomeupwiththeidealoutcome.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

7

Dave: WhenIwas,Idon'tknow,22,Ihadtohave3kneesurgeries.Thedoctorsaid,"You'reluckyyoucanreallywalk."Actually,Ionlyhad2kneesurgeries.I'mlike,"Youknow,I'mgoingtogethealthy.I'mgoingtolosethis100pounds,"soIstartedworkingoutanhourandahalfaday,45minutesofcardio,45minutesofmaximumoutputweights6daysaweek.I'mlike,"Idon'tcareifI'msick.Idon'tcareifIonlyslept2hours.I'mgoingtogotothegym.It'swhatIdo."

Igotaddictedtoit.Ididthisfor18monthsandattheendof18months,Icouldbenchpressallmyfriends.Iwasstillfat.Ididn'tloseanyweight.IgotstrongandI'veseenthis.MyfriendAlexLightmaninSantaMonica.Hecanrun2hoursaday.He's78poundsoffatonhimthathecan'tgetridofwiththatstrategy.Youtalkaboutthisrecoverythingandallthat.Backthen,noonetalkedabouthowvaryingbasedonhowyoufeelortakingarestdayorgettingextrasleep,howthatwasgoingtomakeanydifference.

Whendidyoufirststartreallyrealizingthis?Atthattimeinthe80swhenyouwerewinningorwasthiswayafter?

Mark: No,no,no.Itreallykickedin.Iretiredin'82.Itook5yearsoffofanysortoftraininghard.Ibecameapersonaltriathlete.BecauseI'ddoneIronman,Ihadacacheaboutme.Intheearly80s,Icouldcommand$100anhourtotrainpeople.Thatwasgreatmoneyinthosedays.AswesayinMalibu,somepeoplecanliveonthatinthosedays.

WhatIwasdoing,IwaswalkingorIwasjogging13minutemileswithmyclientswhowerenot…Theyweremaybehousewiveslookingtoloseweightortheywerebusinessmenlookingtojustbecomemoreefficientatwhattheydidbuttheyweren'tnecessarilytryingtobeworld-classathlete.Theywerejusttryingtogetintoshape.Certainly,IhaddialedinpartofthedietsoIwasabletogivethemthewisdomofthedietaryadvicethatbecamethePrimalBlueprint.

Itwasmytraining4hoursadayataverylowlevelofthisactivity.Then,onceaweek,IwouldgotothetrackandIwoulddomyworkout.Itwouldjustbea20minuteora30minuteintervalsession.

Fiveyearslater,Iendupcoachinganeliteteamoftriathletesthattravelaroundtheworldandwerethebestintheworld.I'mthecoach.I'malreadyoldbythen.Igetintosomeoftheraceswiththeseguys.I'mkeepingupwiththem.I'mgoing,"Waitaminute.Itook5yearsoff,justdoingeasystuff.AllIdidwasmyownworkoutonceortwiceaweek.Ididsomestuffinthegym.IreconfiguredmydietbutI'matfitnowasIwaswhenIcalledmyselfaneliteathleteandnowI'manoldcoach."I'minmylate30snowandI'menteringworldchampionship.IwonmyagegroupintheworldchampionshipduathlonattheDesertPrincessandfinished11thoverall.

Itwaslike,okay,thatwasthelightthatwentoninmyheadthattherewasreallysomethingtothislow-leveltrainingcombinedwiththeoccasionalall-outreallyhardtrainingthatfirstofallmademesane,keptmesanebecauseIwasn'tputtingin30hoursaweekof75to85%heartrateallthetime.Iwasn'ttrainingmyselfsimplytohurtbecausethathadbeentheold…Theoldwayoftrainingwasyougooutandyoudoanhourrunora2hourrun.Ifyourheartratesat80to85%ofyourmax,you'rebasicallytrainingyourselftowithstandthatinaracewhenyoufinallygettoacompetition.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

8

Whatyou'renotdoinginthatcaseisyou'renottrainingyourbodytoburnfat.You'renot

trainingyourbodytobecomemoreefficient.You'resimplytrainingyourbraintowithstandthepainandyou'reover-trainingyourheart,wenowknow.You'reliterallydamagingyourheartifyou'redoingthatamountofhardtrainingallthetime.

ItwasthatcombinationofseeingwhatalowlevelofconsistentlylowlevelofactivitywouldstillgenerateaerobicbenefitsandmakememoreefficientwhenIfinallydidgetintoracing.That'sreallywhenthelightwenton.Again,thatwasbackin'85or'86.It'salmost30yearsago.

Dave: Itseemsliketrainingyourselftotoleratesufferingisabadgeof…It'sabadgeofcourage.It'swhatyoucando.Ifindthatifyouwanttotakeanobesepersonandgetthemtoworkouteveryday,especiallywithoutchangingtheirdiet,theywillbesufferingathletesinthattheywillbereallygoodattoleratingsufferingandsettingasidethepainanddoingitanywaybutwhenyoudoitright,it'snotsupposedtobesuffering.I'vedevelopedanintolerancetosufferinginthatIhaveahighcapacityforsuffering.Ijustdon'twanttodoit.IbelievethatifI'ms,I'mprobablynotdoingitaseffectivelyasIcould.It'sausefulsignal.

Mark: It'sagreatsignal.That'sexactlyright.There'salittlebitofsufferinghastoentertheequationifyouwanttobegoodbutI'mtalkingaboutalittlebit.I'mnottalkingaboutpracticingsufferingeveryday.

Dave: It'snotsufferingforsufferingsake."I'magoodpersonbecauseI'mput…"No.Butsomanypeopleusethat

Mark: Nobutsomanypeopleusethat."I'magoodpersonbecauseIwenttothegym.GodispunishingmebecauseI'mnotlosingweightandI'mputtingallthetimein."Italkaboutitforyears,I'vetalkedaboutallthepeopleIknowatthegymthatIgotothathavegone,therunthetreadmill45minutes5daysaweek.Theystillgotthesame25poundstoloseexceptthey'renowalittlebitmoregiggly.It'sactuallyworse.Itshouldn'tbethatway.

Peoplegetcaughtupandthisisoneofthetaxthatwetalkaboutin…Itisaddictive.It'saddictivebecausewhenyoudothathighlevelheartratetrainingonadailybasiswhichthebodyrecognizesisnothealthyandshouldnotbedoing,youcreateendorphins.Endorphinsarenotsomewonderfulgodmoleculethatweshouldallbeseekingonaregularbasistomakeusfeelgood.Endorphinsareasurvivalmechanism.Endorphinsevolvedwhen,beingchaseddowntheveldtortheplainsbyananimalandyou'vesurvivedthusfarbutnowyou'recoweringupinatreeandyouwanttosurviveratherthanjustgiveuplikeadeerintheheadlights.Endorphinsaresupposedtomakeyoufeelgood,tobeabletoovercomeandgettothenextlevelofsurvival.

Farbeitfrommetodictatewhatevolutionhadinmindbutmysenseisthatendorphinsweretobedeployedonaveryinfrequentbasisasasurvivalmechanismbecauseintheolddays,ifyouwereinasurvivalsituationeveryday,youwouldgagafterawhile.Itwasanumbersgamethatwasgoingtotakeyoudown.Thisideathatwechaseendorphins,we'rechasingtherunnershigh…

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

9

Dave: It'sbadnews.It'saddictive.

Mark: It'sfalseeconomy.It'saddictive.It'salso,bytheway,it'sareasonwhysomanysubstance

abusersgravitatetoenduranceathleticsbecauseit'sreplacingoneaddictionwithanother.We'restilltalkingaboutopiates.It'sjustanandrogynousopiateinsteadversusonethatyoushootup.Anyway,that'smytakeonthiswholeconceptofpainandsufferingandI'magoodpersonbecauseIgotothegymandwhycan'tIlosetheworkoutbecauseI'mgoingtothegym.

Thereasonyoucan'tlosetheweightwhenyougotothegym,especiallyifyou'reworkinghardonadailybasisisbecauseyou'reburningsugar.Yougotothegym,you'reraisingyourheartratesohighthatyou'reburningmostlytheglycogenthat'sstoredinyourmusclesorsomeothergelpacksthatyou'retaking.You'relockingthefatintothefatcells.Itcan'tgetout.Asaresult,yougethomeandyousay,"Well,Ijustspent45minutesoranhourandahalfonthetreadmill.IhavetoreplenishmyglycogensothatIcangodoitagaintomorrow."

It'sthisviciouscycleofdepletingsugar,thengoinghomeandeatingmorecarbohydratetoreplenishsugarsothatyoucangodoitagainandburnmorecaloriesbutovertime,thebrainiswiredtotryandovercompensateforthatinsultthatyougaveitthatday.Thetendency,unlessyou'rereallyagiftedenduranceathleteandyou'rea5'11"132poundmanwho'samarathoner,thetendencyisforthebodyovertimetoaddthoseexcesscaloriesasfat.Eventhoughyou'reinthegymdoingtheworkandyou'resweatingandyou'reburningcalories,becauseyouhaven'ttrainedyourbodytoburnoffitsexcessfatandyoubecomesodependentonsugar,it'sthisratholedownwhichyoufall.

Dave: There'safewoutspokensportstrainerpeoplewhoarestillscreamingaboutcaloricburden.Usuallyscreaming,it'slike,"IhavehighcortisolbecauseI'mnotfeedingmyselfwell,"voice.Whatdoyousaytothepeoplewhogoouttheresaying,"It'saboutthecalories.It'saboutthecalories?"

Mark: It'snotaboutthecalories.It'saboutefficiency.It'sabouthowdoyoutakethosecaloriesandconvertthemtoenergy.

Dave: Yes!It'sefficiency.

Mark: It'sefficiency.Whatwe'veseenwithprimalenduranceisthewaywetrainwhenwe'reactuallydoingaerobictraining,whateveryouwanttocallit,cardiooraerobicorwhatever,it'sataratethatisthehighestpossiblerateyoucangoasthelimiteratwhichyoucanstillputmostlyoxygenthroughyourbodyandnotaccumulatelacticacid.Thatheartratehasbeendeterminedgenerallytobe180minusyourage.

Forinstance,I'm62so180minus62is118.Iwouldlimitmytrainingheartrateto118.Imightgivemyself3or4beatsaminutebecauseofmyhistoryofhavingtrainedhardenoughtodothisbutthatissoridiculouslylowcomparedtowhatIusedtoraceandtrainat.

Dave: Oneeighty?

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

10

Mark: WhenIsettheworldrecordfortheVersaClimber,Iheld186beatsaminute.Iworeaheart

monitor,186beatsaminutefor22minutes.

Dave: Haveyouevermeasuredyourejectionfraction?

Mark: Notrecently.Atthatheartrate,theejectionfractionisn'teventhatsignificant.

Dave: It'stiny.

Mark: Yeah.It'stiny.

Dave: Italmosthastobesmallwhenyourheart'sbeatingthatfast.

Mark: Yeah,yeah.Whenyou'reontheVersaClimber,it'suniquebecauseyoucangetahigherheartratethanyouwouldrunningorcyclingbecauseyou'reusinglegsandarmsandyou'repumpingbloodupanddown.Theheart'sjustmaxedout.

Dave: You'renotgettingthegravityshockwhichalsohastobecompensatedfor,right?

Mark: Correct,correct.Iusedtotrain,Iusedtoraceatridiculouslyhighheartrates.Formetotrainat118,it'swhoa!That'ssolowthatwhenIstarteddoingit,ifIweretousethatasalimitedandsay,"I'mgoingtolimitmyselfto118,"Imighthavebeenrunning13minutemiles.Icouldrun5twentiesbutIwasburningmostlysugarandIcoulddothatat170beatsaminuteor180beatsaminutebutformetohold118andusethatasamaxandusethelimitingfactor,theamountofoxygenIcouldputthroughmybody,thatalmostdictatedhowmuchfatIcouldburn.IfIwasn'tburningmuchfat,thenIcouldn'tusetheoxygenIwasputtingthroughmybodyefficientlyandasaaresult,IwaslimitedinhowfastIcouldgo.

Whenwebuildefficiency,weusethatheartratewhichisbasicallythehighestamountofoxygenyoucanputthroughyourbodydoingworkwithoutgoingintosomeanaerobiczoneorsomelacticacidbuildup.

Wefindovertimethatpeoplewhoarerunning13minutemilesarethenrunning12s.Aslongasyouholdsteady,youdothisforacoupleofweeks,thenyou'redoing11s,thenyou'redoing10s.Then930s,then9s.Ultimately,peoplearedoing7minute,30secondmilesat118beatsaminute.

Whentheygoaddinthelayersoftrainingthatincludeweightworkinthegymandintervalsessionslikethat,thefactthattheycanrun730sandbegetting95%oftheirenergyfromfat,whichweknowtobetruebasedontheheartratelimit,whentheystarttoraisetheirheartrateandtheyknowtheycanraceat160or170beatsaminute,it'slinear.Asthey'reincreasingtheirspeed,they'restillderivingagreaterpercentageoftheircaloriesbecauseit'sallaboutthecaloriesastheseguyssay,they'rederivingagreateramountofcaloriesfromfatandrelyinglessonstoredglycogen.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

11

Whatthatmeansisthattheguyoneithersideofthemthatthey'reracingagainst,they'reburningmostlyglycogenatthosehighheartratesandatthosespeeds.

IfI'vetrainedthiswayandI'mgoodatburningfat,I'mnotonlysparingmuscleglycogenwhichisultimatelyalimiterofhowfastIcango,I'mevensparingthepanicglycogensomybrainisfunctioningwellbutitalmostdoesn'tmatterbecauseI'msogoodatburningfatthatI'mproducingketonesandmybrainisburningketones.

Awholedifferenthackthatwetalkaboutwhichisthecentralgovernortheoryofthebrain.ThatwaspromotedbyDr.TimNoakesyearsagowhenhesaid,"Youknow,wedidallthisworkonmuscleglycogenandwedeterminedthatthereasonyouhitthewall,thereasonyoubonkisbecauseyou'reoutofmuscleglycogen.Infact,eventhosepeoplewhohavetowithdrawfromaracestillhave150gramsofglycogenintheirmuscles.Itmustbesomethingelse.Hedeterminedthatitwasthebrain.Thebrainwassaying,"Wegottoshutdownbecausewe'rerunningonfumesandifwedon'tshutdown,there'llbedamagedone.We'llburntheengineout."Itwasthebrainthatwastellingthebodytoshutdownbasedonlowglucose.

Ifyoucanfuelthebrainwithketonesinaraceandthebrain'sgoing,"Hey,we'regreat.Weknowhowtoburnfat.We'renotburningthatmuchglycogen.Wedon'tneedthatmuchglucoseforthebrain,ifany,solet'sjustkeepgoing.Thispaceisfine."We'reseeingalotofathleteat,again,inthe100milerunningracecommunityaresettingworldrecordsbasedon…ForZachBittertorun7minutemilesandderive98%ofhiscaloriesfromfatprovenwearingananexchangesetupinthelab,thisisstuffthatwethoughtwaspuresciencefiction30yearsago.

Dave: Wow!Therearemorethanafewenduranceathleteswho'vehavecontactedmewholiterallypourBrainOctaneintowhatevertheirsportsbeverageis."IjustwanttohavesomeketoneswhenI'minarace,"andexogenousonesthebestastheycangetthem,evenifthey'realreadynutritionalketosis,theoneswhoareburningsugarandketones.

Whatdoyouthink?Forsomeonerunningalong-distancerace,isthereatimewhen,youknowwhat?Haveastingergel.Havesomecarbs,havesomewhitericeorwhateverelseordoyousay,"Stayinketosistheentiretimeandjustneverhavecarbs,"oristhereendoftheracebursts?What'syourperspectiveonthat?

Mark: We'restilllearning.We'restilllearningalotaboutthis.Oneofthethingswe'relearningisyoudon'tgetoutofketosisbytakinginsomeexogenouscarbsinarace.Thereissomeformsofcarbohydrate.UCANmakesaSuperStarchwhichishighmolecularweightstarchthatbasicallydripsintothebloodstreamataverypredictablerate.Youcantakein30gramsanhourwhichiscontributingtothatglucoserequirementasitmayhaveincreasedovertimeifyourampedupyoureffortandnotshutoffketosisandnotshutoffanyoftheothermetabolicprocesses.

Ithinkwhat'sreallycriticalistheunderstandingthatthemoretimeyouspendtrainingasalowcarbathleteandthatincludesnotjusteatinglowcarbinthedietbutdoingtheactualtraining,spendingthetimeatthelowlevelsofheartrateandthenbuildinginthedifferentfacetsofmaximumsustainedpowerandsoforth.Themoreyearsyouspenddoingthis,themorethatmetabolicmachineryiscastinstone.It'sthere.Youdon'tloseyourabilitytoburnfatbecause

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

12

youtakeinagelpack.Youdon'tloseyourabilitytoproduceketonesbecauseyoutookinsomeformofalowGIcarbohydratesource.

Itmaybethatwhatwe'rearrivingatisacombinationbecausethisisreallyaboutwhatIcallfuelpartitioning.It'sabout,I'vegotanamountofoutputthatIneedtocreate.Let'ssayI'mgoingtotrytoshootforaworldrecordandit'sgoingtobea2hourmarathon.IknowthatIcanonlyholdabout1,600caloriesworthoffuelinmyglycogentankbecausethat'sabout400gramsofglycogen.I'vegotabout100gramsinmycapatictankinmylivertankthatIcanallocateforbrainfunctioning.Imightnotneedthatbuttherestofthisisgoingtohavetocomefromfat.EvenifI'mrunning4:42amile,ifIcanstillget60%ofmycaloriesfromfatbecauseofthewayItrainedandthebalancecomesfromcarbohydrates.Then,ifIdorunout,Icanstillsupplementwith…Again,that'swheretheexogenouscarbohydratecomesin.ItmaybeacombinationofMCToilandsomeexogenouscarbohydratelateron.

Ithinkthat'stheexcitingpartabouthowtogettothenextlevelofactualhumanperformanceisthisfiguringoutwhatthesecretformulais,howmuchofthis,howmuchofthat.It'sgoingtobereallycool.

Dave: Itprobablyvariesonaper-personbasisbasedonyourgeneticsby,probablythere'sa20%wiggleroomforeachofthosenumbers,right?

Mark: Absolutely.Absolutely,yeah.

Dave: Whatdoyouthinkaboutcollagen?Isellcollagen.I'mnottryingtopromotethatbuttheycallthatanimalstarch.IthinkImadeamistake.IdidanextremelyhighfatreplicatingtheEskimodietthingasIwasexperimentingforTheBulletproofDietbeforeIwrotethebook.For3months,Iateoneservingofgreenvegetablesadayandtherestofitwasfatandgrass-fedstuffthatcouldberightoutofPrimalBlueprint.Nootherdairyproteinoranyofthatkindofstuff.

Igotleakygut,developedabunchoffoodallergies.Igotnotears,nomucusinmysinuses,nomucuslininginmygutwhichiswhyIlikelygotleakygut.Mysleepqualitywentaway.Itwasnotagoodexperiment.IwonderifitwasbecauseIwasn'tusingcollagenatthetime,Iwasn’tgettingthat"animalstarch"thatEskimoswouldgetfromeatingconnectivetissueandboiledsealbonesandwhateverelsebutforpeopleinextremeketosisdoingenduranceathleticswhichisaburdenonthecollagen,dotheyneedthatorshouldtheyjusttakeexogenouscarbohydratestogetthepolysaccharidestheyneedforcoveringcellsofyourimmunesystem?

Mark: It'sbasicallyaquestionofdoyougetitfrombonesorbonebrothorwhateverbutifyoujusteatredmeat,ifyoujusteatthecleanprotein,theleanprotein,thatwholeconceptthatwasoriginallypromotedbytheearlypaleos.Don'teatsaturatedfat.Justeatclean,leanprotein.Thenyoubasically,rabidstarvation.Yougetimbalanceofcertainaminoacids.Leakygutisoneofthesideeffectsofthat.Weknowthatcollagenhasatremendouseffectonguthealthforsure.

IstarteddoingcollagenbecauseIhaveandIfoundoutlaterwhenIhadmyDNAtestedbyDNAFitthatmysofttissueispronetoinjurywhichitalwayshasbeen.Istillplayultimateoncea

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

13

weekandIplay2hoursofreallyrigorous,hardsprinting,ultimateFrisbee.MyAchillesstartedhurting.I'mconsciousenoughatmyagethatIdon'twanttogetinjuredsoI'llbackoff.Byover-supplementingwiththecollagen,theAchillestendinitiswentaway.Itwasactuallytendinitiswhichisastepbeyondtendinitis.Itake,inadditiontoourbars,Itakeatype1,type2collagenblendalmostonadailybasisbecauseI'mjustsuchahugefanofit.Idon'thaveaccesstobonebrothonaregularbasis.

Dave: Iactuallytravelwith10gallonsteelpotfullofbones,theTSAletsmebringitthrough.It'sjustnotgoingtowork,right?

Mark: Yeah,exactly.

Dave: ForyourAchilles,haveyouevertriedstemcells?

Mark: No.I'venottriedstemcells.I'mveryexcitedaboutthatresearch.Iknowalotofpeoplethatkneeissues.IknowsomebodygoingthroughanMCLissuerightnowthat'sgoingtotrystemcells.I'vehadfriendswithshoulderissuestryitwithvaryingdegreesofsuccess.Ithinkthatthejury'soutonpluripotentcellsandthisconceptthatyoucansomehowinjectitintoakneeandgetakneeandnotaheart.It'salittletooearlyformetotrystufflikethat.

Dave: IfyourAchillesgetsworse,mywifeandIjustwentinanddidadipose-derivedandbonemarrow-derivedstemcells.Prettymucheverywherewecouldthinkofthateverhadaninjury.Likeyou,shehassofttissueinjurydispositions.ShehaddamagetoherAchillestendonfrommanyyearsago.Italwayshurtswhenshehikesandstuff.Shehadtheinjectiondone.Itliterally,amonthlater,it'sgone.Samething.Shehadafrozennecksinceshewas10yearsold.Shecouldn'tturnherneckveryfar.Oneofhershoulderswasfrozenfromfalling30feetoutofatreeasachild.Literally,2daysaftertheinjection,shehadmorerangeofmotionthanshe'shadasanadult.Iwasblownawaybutthesewereourownlivingstemcells,notfromsomeothersource,notfrom….

Mark: Sure.I'mfamiliarwithsomethetechnologytoharvestthem.Iwouldbemuchmoreinclinedtodothemarrowderivedfromthefatcellderivedbutstill.Yeah.Iguessthepointis,IgotthereliefIsought.

Dave: Justfromeatingit.

Mark: Justfromeatingcollagenso…

Dave: Thereyougo.

Mark: Yeah.

Dave: Let'stalksomemoreaboutworkingoutbecausewe'veallbeentaught,atleastifyou'reasoldasIamorasoldasyouarethatafteryou'veexercised,you'vegottoloaduponcarbohydratessoyoucanreplenishglycogenbecauseyoudon'thaveglycogen,you'llbeweak.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

14

TherewasaguynamedRobFaigininthemid90s,he'soneofthefirstnaturalbodybuilders,atleastfirstthatIknewabout,ofmygeneration.Theremighthavebeenotherones.Hewrotealotaboutwhathappenedifyouateproteinafteryouworkedoutbecauseyou'dgetasuppressionofcortisolandanincreaseingrowthhormoneandtestosterone.Hepositionedasateetertotter.Thatreallyinformedalotofmyearlyworkouttheoriesbutwhatdoyouthinkyoushouldhaveafteryouworkout?

Mark: Yeah.MystrategyisIdon'teat.Iworkoutfast.Idon'teatfor2hoursafterIworkoutprimarilybecauseI'mnothungry,primarilybecauseI'vegottensogoodatburningfatthatIwakeupinthemorning,Idon'tfeelhungry.I'mnotcompelledtoeat.Iadvisemyaudience,Ifyoudon'tfeellikeeating,ifyou'renothungry,whyeat?

Idon'tknowifyousawapapercirculatingafewdaysagoaboutover-nutritionandstudiesovernutritionwhichisbasicallyevenifyoucanputcaloriesthroughandnotgainweight,eatingmorethanyoushouldisprobablynotagoodidea.

Dave: Yes.Iwouldsupportthat.Idid4,500caloriesaday,between4,000,4,500formorethanayear.Ilostormaintainedweight.Ididnotgainweight.Idon'tthinkitwasnecessarilyhealthybutitwasjustastoundingthatthecaloriesin,caloriesoutjustsimplydidn'twork.Idon'tthinkitwasagoodthingtodobutIdidit.

Mark: Idon'tthinkit'sagoodthingtodoeitherbutasanexperiment.

Firstofall,backtothepost-workoutmeal.There's2schoolsofthoughtandtheoldschoolofthoughtwasrefillglycogen,yougotthis45minutewindowinwhichyourbody'spreparedtoreallyrampupglycogenre-synthesisbutifyoulookatyourstrategy,it's,"Okay,whydoIevencareaboutrebuildingglycogen,really?"OnlyifI'mgoingtogodothistomorrowamIreallyconcernedaboutrebuildingglycogentoday.

Onceagain,youtakealookatthetraditional100mileaweekmarathonrunnerwhichIwas.You'rerunninganaverageof15to20milesaday,everydaywithoutadayoffunlessyougetinjuredorgetsick.Youhadtothinkintermsofrefillingglycogen.Thatmadesense.Thatalsokeptyouskinnybecausetheconverseofthatisifyoudoahardworkoutandparticularlyifyoudoalagdayorsomeworkoutthatusesmajormusclegroupsanddoesittomaxeffort,youdogetthatpulseofgrowthhormoneandtestosteronethatiswhatyou'reseekingifyou'retryingtoputonmuscleandtakingcarbohydrateinbluntsthatpulse.Itbluntsthatpulseoftestosteroneandgrowthhormone.

Asa62,soontobe63,yearoldguy,IwantallmusclemassthatIcangetandsoIwanttotakeadvantageofthatopportunity.Idon'tneedtoreplenishglycogenbecauseI'mnotgoingtogohardtomorrow.Infact,I'mnotgoingtogohardfor4moredays.MyglycogenstoreswillrefillsothatwhenIgettoahardglycolyticworkoutoraweightworkout4daysdowntheroad,myglycogenstoreswillbeuptowheretheyneedtobebuttheoldpost-workoutreefedwasbasedon,"BecauseI'mgoingtodoitagaintomorrow."

Dave: Itwasbasedonsomeflawedassumptionsthatalsodrovethebehaviorthatthendrove…It'sa

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

15

chickenandeggthingwithbadoutcome.

Mark: Exactly.

Dave: Speakingoftestosterone,okay.You're63.

Mark: Yup.

Dave: Youprobablymeasureyourtestosteronelevels,Iwouldimagine.

Mark: Ido.

Dave: Allbiohackersdo.Atwhatpointareyougoingtotakeexogenoustestosteroneorareyounevergoingtodoit?

Mark: No,no,no.Istartedabout2yearsago.

Dave: Youdid?Okay,cool.Kudostoyou.Thatissuchavalidanti-agingstrategy.ActuallyIappreciatethatyoutalkaboutthat.Iwasontestosteroneforabout8yearsbecauseIwasn'tmakingmyown.MymotherhadmoretestosteronethanIdidwhenIwas26.Itabsolutelyhelpedmetoturnmybiologybackon.I'mnotontestosteronerightnowbecausemylevelsarewhereIwantedthemtobe,whenIfinallydialedinallthestuffbutI'llbedamnedifIwon'tgoontestosteroneifmylevelsdipandIcan'tfixwithmydiet.It'showit'ssupposedtobe.

Mark: AsIturn60andIstartedtorealizethatIwanttoliveanawesomelifeaslongasIcan.OneofmybestfriendswhoIusedtodotriathlonswith30yearsagoisapreeminentanti-agingdoc.Irespectwhathesaid.Hesaid,"Look.Whydon'tyou…Let'sjusttrythisout,seehowyoulikeit.It's100milligramsinthebuttonceaweek.It'snotabigdeal."

For2andahalfyears,that'swhatI'vebeendoing.It'sfine.It'spartofmyregimennow.Igottotellyou,Idon'tnecessarilynoticeanythingasaresultofitbutI'mlookingatthosesortsofadvantagesgoingforward.There'snoreasonnotto.Havingdonetheresearchandthescience,Idon'tthinkthere'sanyreasonnotto.Mywife'sbeendoingbio-identicalestrogen…

Dave: Progesterone,yeah.

Mark: Progesterone,testosteronemanipulationsfor10years.

Dave: Givingwomentestosteronemightbemoreimportantthangivingmentestosterone.

Mark: Yeah.

Dave: Whattherightlevelsdoforwomen,it'sreallyimportant.Ithinkit'sleftoverfromdopingscandalswithbodybuildersinthe70susingmethylatedtestosteronecompoundsthataren'tnatural.There'ssomesortofweirdpuritanicalthingagainstit.I'mnotjokingabout.I'mplanningtoliveto180yearsold.Ithinkit'sachievablegiventhechangeinanti-aging…

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

16

Mark: AccordingtoKurzweil,ifyoucanmakeitto2040or2045,you'regood.

Dave: Exactly,right?

Mark: Yeah.

Dave: Itdepends,ifRay'srightornot,Idon'tknowbutit'ssomethinglikethat.Ithinkit'sdoable.I

thinkhemightevenhavehisnumberswrong.Atleastifyou'refortunateenoughandifyoucouldpreventenoughdamageearlyenoughage,maybeit'stherebutthatmeansthatyouwillbeonexogenoushormonesatsomepointifyou'rebody'snotmakingthemoryou'lldie.

Mark: Oryou'llbedownloadingyourconsciousnessintoamachine.

Dave: That'safairpoint.Ithinkit'salreadyhalfwayintomyiPhone.Ifitjusthadmoreram,right?

Mark: Yeah.Yeah.

Dave: Let'stalksomemoreaboutbrainssincewetalkedaboutdownloadingthem.Onethingthatketonescandoisextendthecareerofanathlete.We'retalkingaboutextendinglife.Whatdoketonesdoforextendingyourathletelife?Inotherwords,beingabletocompeteintoyourfiftiesorsomethingwithketones?

Mark: Wedon'tknowyetbecausewehaven'thadanyrealproof,anylong-termstudiesofathleteswhowereattheelitelevelwhowereketogenicbyplanthathadundergoneextensivetrainingandmaintainedahighlevelofcompetitiveoutput.Wedon'tknowyet.

Isuspectthatwhatwe'llseeisthatthere'llbeagreaterlongevitysimplybecausethiswholeenergypathwaythatwe'retalkingaboutwithfatsandketonesislessreactiveoxygenspeciesgeneratingthantheglycolytic,glycogencarbohydrate/glucosepathwaysandthatathleteshavedependedonforthelast30or40years.

Whenyouseeathletewhoare35yearsoldandtheylooklikethey're55yearsold,partofit'sbecausetheamountoftimethey'vebeenoutinthesunbutpartofit'sjustbecauseoftheamountofoxidativedamagethatthey'vedone,thatiscrosslinking,it'sacrylamide,it's…What'sthat…

Dave: Advancedglycationendproducts.

Mark: AGEs.MyARDreactionwhenIwaslookingatit.

Dave: Thereyougo.

Mark: Allsortsofmanifestationsofaninefficientenergyproductionsystemthatironicallyisonlyavailablebecausewehaveanunlimitedsupplyofcarbohydrate.Inotherwords,ifwehadn'tcreated…Again,wegetbacktoJaredDiamondandCordainandagricultureanditwasthebest

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

17

oftimes,itwastheworstoftimes,it'sthegreatestmistakehumanityevermadebuttherelianceoncarbohydrateallowedpeopletotrainhardeverysingledaybecausetheythoughttheyhadtotrainhardandtheyhadtorefillglycogen.

AsaresultI'moneofthese…Ididdamagetomyself.I'mpayingthepricetodayforthedamagethatIdid30yearsago.Ithinkthatwe'llseethatketogenicathletesandpeoplewhoaredoingcyclicketo-I'mnottalkingaboutstayinginketosisyourwholelife.I'mjusttalkingaboutusingcyclicketogenesistobuildabettermetabolicmachinerytoputthroughfatsandketonesandcarbohydratesandmaximizetheenergyoutputinarace.That'swhereit'sheaded.

Dave: Youaddedakeywordthere,cyclicalketosis.That'sexactlywhatIrecommendinTheBulletproofDietbecausewhenIdidfullketosisforthatperiodoftime,IfeltnegativeeffectsbutifIgooutofitonedayaweek,"Okay,I'mgoingtoeatalotofricetoday."ItfeelslikeIjusthavemorepowerthroughouttheweekorifIdohave50or100gramsofcarbs,Istillmaintainthatfatburningabilitythatitseemstobedifferentthanthesub-20gramsofcarbsadaycrowd.IrespecttheguysthatdothatbutIdon'tfeelgoodifIdothat.

Mark: IrespecttheguysthatdothatbutIliketoeatawidevarietyoffoods.Again,backnotwantingtohurt.Idon'twanttosuffer.For2yearsnow,thetaglineforPrimalBlueprinthasbeenliveawesome.HowdoweextractthegreatestamountofpleasureoutofeverymomentpossiblewhichincludeseveryfrickingbiteoffoodthatIeat,Iwantittotastegood.IfI'mlimitingmyselftofoodsthatarewithinafairlynarrowlydefinedketogenicdietandI'mexcludingcopiousamountsofgreenvegetablesthathavebeengrilledorsautéedorsteamedwithbutter,whatever.Evenacertainamountofstarchyinputs,evenifit'satarochipwithwhichtoscoopsomeguacamole,Idon'twanttolimitmyselftothatstuff.

Dave: Agreed.Ihadaninterest-I'mtryingtorememberwhichaudiencethisis.ThisisBrendonBurchard'sHighPerformanceAcademy.Thisisabout1,500peopleintheroom.They'reallhigh-performingpeopleandsaid,"Pleaseraiseyourhand,howmanyofyouknowaboutketosis?Howmanyofyouhavebeeninketosis?"I'dsay90%oftheroomraisestheirhand.Isaid,"Allright.Howmanyofyouareinketonesnow?"Fivepeople.It'slike,okay,pointmade.Theyallfeltthebenefitsbutitwastoohardtodoitandtotravelanddoalltheotherthingsortheyjustdidn'tenjoyitbecausetheywantedtheirwineortheywantedtheirwhateverelseitwas.

Mark: Toddseemstobeabletostayinketonesandhavehiswine.

Dave: Yeah.Howdoeshepullthatoff?TheToddwe'retalkingaboutistheguyfromDryFarmWines.Mark,youandIarebothfansoftheguy.

Mark: No.So,Ithinkketosisisagreattoolandit'sagreattrainingstrategybutIwouldsuggest…Itellathlete,"Spend2weeksinandthenhangout."Youcanstillbelow-carb.Tobeinketosis,youmighthavetobebelow50gramsduringthetimethatyou'reinketosisbutyoucanmoveupto120gramsor130gramsadayofcarbsandinthatspace,beconsumingplentyofvegetablesandenoughfiberandenoughothergreat-tastingfoodstonotfeellikeyou'resacrificinganythingandalsonotfeelcompelledtocarbo-loadjustbecauseyou'reoutofketosis.There'sanicelittlespaceyoucanfindyourselfinwhereyou'reat100to150gramsadayandstillbeutilizingallthe

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

18

metabolicmachinerythatyoubuiltwhenyouwereinketosis.

Dave: Yeah.Beinginketosissometimesisreallyimportant.Itdepends,foranenduranceathlete,onesideofthings.Look,I'mrunningabusiness.Iwantmybraintoworkreallywell.It'sadifferentfrequencyofketosisbutifwe'reresettinghungerlevels,resettingyourbodyweightsetpoint,ketosishassomanyjustusefulthings.

What'sthenumber?Whenyoustickyourfingerandlookatthebloodketonelevels,whatarethemeaningfulnumbersforyou?Igetdifferentanswerstothisquestionfromdifferentpeople.

Mark: Ithink2isameaningfulnumber.I'mnotlookingfor4sand5s.

Dave: Ilove2.Twoisdefinitelyyou'reinnutritionalketosis.Ithinkifyouhavecancerorsomething,youmightwanttogetalothigherthanthatbutIdon'tthinkit'snecessary.Forme,themagicnumberthatsetsmybrainfreeis.5whichissubnutritionalketosiswhichstartsat.8but.5iswhereyouresetyourghrelinandCCKlevels.Ghrelin'sthehungerhormone.CCKisthesatietyhormone.Whenyouresetbothofthose,allofasudden,you're,"Oh.Now,Idon'tcareaboutfoodsoI'mgoingtomakehealthierandmoreintelligentfoodchoicesbecauseI'mnotcraving-drivenanymore."Forme,freedomfromcravingsisoneofthosethingsthatreducessufferingthemostintheleastamountofeffort.

Mark: Again,backtothewholeconceptherewhichistoenjoyasmuchoflifeaspossible.OneofthosethingsthatIfindreallycompellingabouttheworkthatwedoisit'sthe…it'sabadtermbuttheanorecticeffectofalow-carbdiet,ofacyclicalketogenicdiet.Itmodulatesyourhungertothepointthatyoudon'tfeeldrivenbyfood,thatyoudon'tfeellike,"Oh,mygod.Thiswasjustawonderfullunch.What'sfordinner?"It'ssofreeingtosomanypeopletobeabletosay,goinarestaurantordersomethingorhavesomethingfixedathome,take7bitesandgo,"Youknowwhat?IthinkI'mdone.IthinkI'vehadenough.IthinkIdon'tneedtoeatanymoreandifIdoneedtoeatanymore,Iknowexactlywheretogetsome."

I'vebeentalkingalotaboutthisrecentlybutI'vehadformostofmylife,Iwasguidedbythiscriteriawhichwas,what'sthemostamountoffoodIcancramdownmypieholeandnotgainweight?What'sthemostamountoffoodIcaneatandnotthrowup?What'sthemostamountoffoodIcaneatandnotbeuncomfortable?Ithinkalotofpeoplelivetheirlivesthatway.Then,yougotoCheesecakeFactoryandyougetwhatevertheservingis,it's1,600caloriesorwhateverandyoufeelcompelledtofinishtheplate.Afewyearsago,Istartedthinking,"Well,alotoftheWesternworld,thedevelopedworldlivesaccordingtothatmantra."IrunsoIcaneat.Whydoyourunmarathons?IrunbecauseIlovetoeat.Seriously,dude?That'swhyyouhurtyourself?

Dave: That'ssick!

Mark: That'sjustsick.Ilovetoeat,toobutIchosenottorunmarathons.Theconverseofthisisreallytoaskyourself,"What'stheleastamountoffoodIcaneatandmaintainmusclemassandmaintainenergyandmaintaingreatcognitionandnotgetsickandmostimportantly,notbehungry?"Youfindthatit'snotalotoffood.It'sreallythatIprobablyeat30%fewercaloriesnow

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

19

thanIdideven5or7yearsagowhenIcouldmaintainmyweighteatingthat.Iwouldn'tgainweightbutIjustfindIdon'tneedasmanycaloriestomaintainbecauseIreallydialinmyappetite.IreallyunderstandwhenI'mhungry,whenI'mnotandIguessthebadnewsisnow,IfeelguiltyifIevenslightovereat,Igo,"No.Jeez.Iknewbetterthanthat,"andslightlyovereatingformeisprobablyhalftheportionIwouldhaveeaten10yearsago.

Dave: It'sfunnyyoumentiontheanorecticeffectofketosisbecausesuddenlyyou'renotdrivenbythesecravings.About3yearsago,therewasagroupinSwedensayingthatBulletproofCoffeecausesanorexia.Swedenisoneofthefirstcountriestobroadlyembraceahigh-fatdiet,ahighsaturated-fatdiet,even.Ijustthrewmyhandsup."Well,Iguessiflivingwithouthungerequalsanorexia,yup."I'llownthatbutwhatwasgoingonwaspeoplewerecomplainingthat,"Thosepeopledon'thaveanyhungerpainsthereforethey'rebadpeople."It'slike,"Comeon,guys.It'scalledmildketosis."

Mark: No.It'scalledbeingincontrolofyourappetite.It'sabigdifferencebetweenrefusingtoeatbecauseyou'retryingtoshowyourparentssomething,thatyou'vegotmorecontrolthantheydoversusjustbeingsoincontrolofyourappetite,yougo,"Youknowwhat?I'mnothungry.Iknowwhathungerlookslike.I'mnothungrynow.Idon'tneedtoeatnow.Icouldbecausemyfriendsareeatingorwhatever.We'reallgoingouttolunch."Ithinkthat'sthesinglemostempoweringconceptwithinthewholepaleoprimalBulletproofworld.

Dave: WhenIwasreallyfat,Ididnotknowthedifferencebetweenhungerandacraving.Ithoughtatmycore,thosewerethesamething.Whenyouhavetoeat,you'regoingtodie.Youfeellikeyou'regoingtodieifyoudon'teatnowandsuddenly,tobeatthispointwhere,"Youknow,IcouldeatbutifIdon'teatforanother4hours,I'mnotgoingtolosemyabilitytothink.I'mnotgoingtohavetolaydown.I'mnotgoingtobiteanyone'sheadoff."It'sjustgoingtobelikeoneofthosethingslikemaybeIshouldscratchthatitch.

Forme,thatwas,justasaformerobeseperson,thatwassodamnedliberatingandtofeelwhatitdidformybrain.Idon'tcarehowmybodylooksaslongasIcanhavethatfeelingbecauseit'ssomuchbetterthanthewayIusedtofeel.

Mark: Ironically,whenyouhavethatfeeling,thenyourbodystartstolookbetter.

Dave: It'safreebonus.It'sprettycool.Youmentionedyou're63or62,turning63?

Mark: Yeah,yeah,yeah.

Dave: Whatelseareyoudoingforanti-aging?For10years,I'verunananti-aginggroup.Thisisoneofmypassions.Youdosomuchresearch.Ihavesomuchrespectforyou.You'vegottobedoingsomethingmorethanjustketosisandtestosteroneforaging.Whatelseisonthemenuforyou?

Mark: Ithinklikea17yearold.Iliterallysurroundmyselfwithyoungpeopleandthat…

Dave: Ithelps.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

20

Mark: Ithinksinglemostimportantaspecttoallthis.I'munapologeticaboutgetting8andahalfto9hoursofsleepanight.I'mverygoodaboutthat.I'mreligiousaboutthat.Ithinksleepiscriticalforpartofananti-agingstrategy.I'mgettingsome,notasmuchasIusedtobutIstillget,Ispentsometimeinthesun.I'mdoingthelowleveltrainingthatI'venowamcoachingpeopletodo.Now,I'mdoingitmyselfanddoinga2hourstanduppaddletheotherday.

Dave: Nice.

Mark: It'sout.It'smytimewithnature.It'sverymeditative.Iusuallygooutalone.Theotherday,Iwentoutandsawawhale.Itwasprobablyahalfmileawaybutitwasjustawesometoseethatthinkbreaching.Ihike.Again,Ihikealone.That'sreallymymeditationiswhenIworkoutintheselongerstretches.Playultimate,again,with20somethingsand30somethingsandfeellikeIcankeepupwiththem.Really,mostofitisattitude,Ithink,forme.

Dave: Youmentionedearlieryourheartratevariabilityasameasureofover-trainingandI'vebeenadvisortotheHeartMathInstituteandacertifiedcoach.Iuseitasawaytomeditatemorequickly.Doyouthatsortofworkwithheartratevariabilityorareyoumorearoundbasicallymeasuringthehealthofyourautonomicnervoussystemwithitsoyoucanwatchthetraining?

Mark: Yeah.Here'sthedealwithmeandHRV.Iknowalotaboutit,wrotealotaboutit.Itdoesn'tworkforme.I'lltellyouwhy.

Dave: Cool!

Mark: IspentsomuchofmylifetrainingatahighheartratethatIdamagedmyheart.IhavePVCs.Ihaveprematureventricularcontractions.Thisreallystartedtomanifestitselfacoupleofyearsagoinjustskippedbeatsbutitwasn'tjustskipbeats.Itwaseveryotherbeatoreverythirdbeatwasskippedforanhouratatime.IwouldgetthemostoutrageouslygoodHRVnumbers.

Dave: You'regettingfalsenumbers.Okay.

Mark: Iwasgettingfalsenumbers.Icalledourfriend,Iforgethername.

Dave: RolandMcCready

Mark: No.Thegal.Thegal.

Dave: Debbie,yeah.

Mark: Yeah.Ijustsaid,"Iwanttolookintothis."Shesaid,"Youknow,well,ifyougotPVCs,thentheHRVprograms,wecan'tworkwithit.Wecan'trecognizewhat'sgoingon."

Dave: Okay.Takesthatoffthetable.

Mark: It'snotlifethreatening.It'sjustannoying.Ihaveaskippedbeatthatwhenitskips,theventricleoverfills.Then,sothecatchupbeatisveryforcefulbeatthat'salittleuncomfortable.

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

21

Dave: Thatchangesthevariabilitydramaticallyof…

Mark: Dramatic,yeah,yeah.

Dave: Weallhaveourissueslikethat.Thisisgoingbackmaybe3yearsorso.Ispentacoupledaysat

10,000feetelevation,hadafewdrinks.ThiswasattheSummitSeries.SomeoneoutsideonPowderMountain.Iflewstraightfromthereonverylittlesleep,stayuplatepartyingtoSanFrancisco.IdidashootforavideoseriesIwasdoing.IhelpplankposeontheBulletproofVibe.ThisisthewholebodyvibrationplatformImanufacture.Plankposeishardenoughtodofor5minutesandwhenyou'revibrating30timesasecond,itisahellofaworkout.

They'retryingtogetthelightingandthecameraanglesright.I'mlike,"Guys,you'retorturingmehere."IheldthisposeandI'mjustdrippingwithsweat.Then,IflewhometoCanadaandrefilledmythyroidprescription.I'vebeenondecreasingamountsofthyroidbutIdidhaveHashimoto'sthyroiditis.I'mprobablydown70%ofmythyroidmedsbutI'mstillonthem.Myprescriptionwascompoundedanditwasoverfilled.

HereIam,Iendupgettinganinflamedsternumwhichcauseshorriblechestpainsifyou'veeverhadthatandI'mgettingskippedheartbeatswhichwasmademethinkaboutthisfromthethyroidmedication.Mywife'sanERdoctor.She'slike,"Ithinkyou'regoingtothehospitaltogetanEKGnow."I'mlike,"Whatthehell?"Itturnsoutitwasoneofthoseconfluences.Youjustdon’tknowbutapparentlyskippedbeatsarewaymorecommonthanIwouldhavethought

Mark: Here'showcommontheyare.Inmygenerationofenduranceathlete,it'sepidemic.IttypicallymanifestsitselfasAFib,atrialfibrillation.Inmycase,whatitis,it'sathickeningoftheventriclewall.Whentheheartmusclethickens,itbasicallyformsalittlebitofscartissueandacoupleofcellsdie.Thosearecellsthatareinnervatingtheheartbeatortheymaybebeprematurelyinnervatingabeatbecauseofsomerestriction.

Thepointis,whenyouputthatamountof…Iraisedmyheartratetomaxlevels3daysaweekforagoodpartofmylife.That'swhyI'mwritingthisbookorwhyIwrotethisbookPrimalEnduranceistosay,"Don'tdothis.Donottrythisathome,kids.There'sawaytodothis."

Thegoodnewsis,it'snotlifethreatening.Icouldgogetanablationandtheyliterallygointhroughtheleg,theycouldburnacoupleofthecellsthatarecausingtheproblem.Theymapthem,theidentifythem,theyburnthem,goodasnew.Thatscaresme.I'mgoingtoholdoffonthatforawhilebutItakeacalciumchannelblockerforitnow.

Igotothegymliketoday,Irodeforanhourat118beatsaminutewith0negativeeffectatall.That'smynumber,118is180minusmyage,118.Iheldit.I'mmoreefficientatthat118thanI'veeverbeenatmylifesoI'meventrainingaccordingtomyplannowbutpayingverycloseattentiontomaxheartratestuff.

Dave: Oneeightyminusageholdsnomatteryourage?

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

22

Mark: Yeah,soit'sreally…itwasdevelopedbyPhilMaffetonewho'soneofthepioneersinthiswholearea.

Dave: Imethim.

Mark: HewasMarkAllen'scoachwhenMarkwasthegreatesttriathleteintheworldandwonIronman7times.It'saprettycoolhistoryofhavingworkedwithtopathletesandproventhatthismethodworksandthentoarriveatthisnumber.Again,wesay,it's180minusyourageplusorminus4or5beatsbasedonsomelittleboxesthatyoucheckoff,likeI'malifetimeathlete.I'malreadyfittobeginwithorI'mwayoutofshapeandI'minhorrendousshape.Thenumbershiftseithersideofthatnumberbutit'saprettyreliablenumber.

Wecangotothelabandyoucantestitbecausewhatitis,isit'stryingtoarrive,again,asIsaid,it'sthehighestnumberatwhichyoucanputthemostamountofoxygenthroughandnotbegoingintoanykindoflacticacidbuildup.It'sthenumberatwhichyouareburningmostlyfatbecausewedeterminedthatasanRQ,orrespiratoryquotient,basedonoxygenthroughput.

Dave: Thisissuchafascinatingconversation.Ilovebeingabletojustgeekoutalittlebitbutnotgosodeepthatpeoplelisteninggetlost.Ireallyappreciateourconversation,Mark.I'mlookingforwardtogettingachancetohangoutatyournextmayonnaiselaunch.YoujustcameoutwithyournewmayonnaisewhichismadeoutofrealingredientswhichIappreciate.ImissedyourpartyforitbutIappreciateit.

Mark: No.Weactuallynowhavetheoriginalmayonnaisebeenout14monthsnowalready.We'dhadaChipotlelimemayothatweintroducedrecently.

Dave: Ah!Okay.

Mark: Yeahandsomesaladdressingalsobasedonavocadooil,thehealthiestofalltheoilssoveryexcitedabout…it'scalledPrimalKitchen.It'smostWholeFoods,youcangetitonThriveMarketforsure.Yeah.

Dave: Beautiful.Wehaveonemorequestiononourinterview.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandsaid,"Mark,IwanttokickassateverythingIdo,notjustworkingout,whatarethe3mostimportantthingsIneedtoknow?"Whatwouldyoutellthem?

Mark: Numberone,always,always,alwaysthebestinvestmentyoucouldevermakeisinyourself.Whetherthat'sinvestinginmoreeducation,investinginsomeskills,investinginabusinessthatyou'vejustcreated,that'sthesinglegreatestpieceofadviceIcouldgiveanyone.That'sreallywhat'sgoingtodeterminethedifference.

Number2,I'dsaybearinmindthatifitwaseasy,everyonewouldbedoingit.Sometimesitfeelslikeeveryone'sdoingitandthey'rebreathingdownyourthroatbutifwasreallyeasy,everyonewouldbedoingit.Juststayfocused.Thosepeoplewhosucceedinanythingaretheoneswhopersevere.Eveniftheystartoffslow,Ijustfind,likeinrealestate,Ihavefriendswhogaveupinrealestateafter2yearsbutifyouhangintherefor4or5years,thesamegroupof

Bulletproof Radio Podcast #314, Mark Sisson

23

friendsaremakingmillionsofdollarsjustbecausetheyhunginthereandtheyweregoodatit.

ThirdthingandIjustgavesomebodythisadvicetheotherday,ifyouhaveabusinessidea,Ifyouwanttokickass,makesureit'sagoodidea.Don'tjustbepassionateforthesakeofbeingpassionatebutmakesureit'sactuallyagoodbusinessandthengetpassionateashellaboutit.

Dave: That'sverywellsaid,givenallmytimeinSiliconValley.Ilovethatone.Cool.

Mark,Idon'tknowifyouevenneedtogiveoutyourURLbecauseeverybodyknowsaboutitbutmarksdailyapple.com.Anyotherplacespeopleshouldgotofindyou?

Mark: Primalblueprint.comisthee-commercesitewhereallofourproductsaresold,yeah.ChecktothePrimalKitchenlineoffoodproducts.

Dave: Beautiful.Yousaidyou'reatWholeFoodsnow?

Mark: Yup.

Dave: Awesome.WejustgotinWholeFoodsaswell.Whenyou'reatWholeFoods,pickupsomePrimalKitchenitems.Whileyou'reatit,pickupsomeofthatBulletproofstuff.It'sgoingtobeanawesomeday.

Mark: Yes,itwill.

Dave: Ifyouenjoyedtoday'sepisode,youknowwhattodo.HeadonoverandpickupacopyofPrimalEndurancebecauseyouwilllearnsomethingfromthisbookevenifyou'renotanenduranceathlete.

I'llbereallyhonest.Idon'tcareaboutenduranceathletics.Personally,it'snotwhatIwanttodowithmylifebutlifeisanenduranceevent,atleastifyouwanttoliveto180itis.Thethingsyou'lllearnfromreadingthisbookapplywaybeyondrunningamarathonordoinga10Korrunning100miles,whateveryoumightwanttodo.Ithinkthatthere'ssomethingforeveryoneinthebook.IhavegreatrespectforMarkandMark'swork.YouwillbenefitfromreadingPrimalEndurance.PickituponAmazon,headonovertoMark'swebsiteandpickupacopyofit.Youwillbegladyoudid.

Haveanawesomeday.

Mark: Cool!

Dave: Great.