Transcript
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RC: So, without further ado, let me bring on our guest

here. Senator Beavers, hello?

MS. BEAVERS: Yes, how are you?

RC: Hey, great. Welcome to the show, and certainly

appreciate you giving up part of an evening here to be with us.

It was kind of a short introduction there, but let's see, I

believe you represent Senate District 17, is that correct, in

Tennessee?

MS. BEAVERS: I do.

RC: And did I – I'm sure I left out some things there.

MS. BEAVERS: Oh, that's all right. I represent eight

counties east of Nashville, and I've been in the state senate

for eight years, I was in the house for eight years, and on the

county commission for four years before that.

RC: Okay, great. So it sounds like you are quite an

experienced legislator, and I'm not that familiar with the

government of Tennessee, but it sounds like you do have a

bicameral legislature with a senate and a house of

representatives. Is that correct?

MS. BEAVERS: We do.

RC: Okay. And, as I said, I really appreciate you coming

on, and your assistant was quite pleasant to work with, too, to

line this up and very accommodating. I know you were in session

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last week and quite busy. So we were able to arrange it this

week.

Now, you are the author of two bills that would modify the

Tennessee code having to do with ballot access.

MS. BEAVERS: Right, and we're actually withdrawing that

first bill. We decided to expand that to all of the federal

offices. You know, this has really got me thinking about who

really checks to make sure people are qualified to run for

office, you know, any of the offices, and so we have expanded

the bill to include not only the people who are running for

president, but Congress and for the U.S. Senate.

RC: Okay, so the two bills I have printed off here, Senate

Bill 366, is that the one you're withdrawing?

MS. BEAVERS: Yes, that's the –

RC: Okay, and that only seemed to deal with the

presidency, the president, and then you're replacing that with

Senate Bill 1091, is that correct?

MS. BEAVERS: That's correct.

RC: Okay. Well, I guess I have several questions. One

is, you know, I think there should be a need for legislation –

or what do you hope to accomplish with this bill I guess would

be my first question? Why did you introduce it?

MS. BEAVERS: Well, it's to make sure that people who are

running for office are eligible to run for office. I think

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that, you know, there have been a lot of questions about our

President's eligibility, and it kind of got me thinking about,

you know, who's really out there checking? You know, it used to

be, you know, for instance, if you run for a race in your local

county that everybody knew everybody, and so you kind of knew

what age a person was and, you know, things like that, but now,

you know, we've grown so much that people just don't know each

other, and I think we need, especially at the federal levels,

you know, people checking to make sure that you're qualified to

run.

RC: Well, you just said there have been a lot of

questions. Yes, there does seem to be – there has been a small

group of people that have brought up questions about President

Obama, but I mean, do you really have any questions about him

being eligible, or any other –

MS. BEAVERS: Well, a lot of people do. I have no personal

knowledge about whether or not he was eligible or not, but there

have been a lot of questions about it, and I think it just begs

the question, you know, who's really checking on this.

RC: I won't get into your age –

MS. BEAVERS: I'm 63 years old.

RC: Okay, we're close to the same age. So you've been

around long enough to remember Ronald Reagan, I guess, and some

of the other presidents.

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MS. BEAVERS: Oh, of course.

RC: Okay, well, were you aware of the fact that Ronald

Reagan didn't have a birth certificate until he was over 30

years old?

MS. BEAVERS: No, I was not.

RC: Okay, well, we'll get into that a little later. So

but – so according to you, then, you have no questions about

Obama's eligibility yourself then.

MS. BEAVERS: Oh, I think people have raised questions

about it enough to make everybody wonder.

RC: But, you know, we've actually seen a copy of his

official Hawaiian birth certificate posted online. We've seen

high resolution photographs. He's the only president I've

actually ever seen a copy of his birth certificate before he was

President. Actually, there is the one posted – I've seen a

picture of Ronald Reagan's, you know, the one we were talking

about that was actually issued in 1942. So I probably have less

questions about his eligibility than any president, because I've

actually seen a picture of his birth certificate. I think

you've probably seen that also. Is that correct?

MS. BEAVERS: You know, I get emails all the time with

things in them, you know. I can't honestly tell you that I read

all of them, because I get so many emails, it's unbelievable.

So you know, I just know that the question has been out there.

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RC: But I mean there are lots of questions out there.

People question whether George Bush had something to do with,

you know, causing 9-11, but that was all silly and we knew that

was silly, right? I mean, there are conspiracy theories about

everything.

MS. BEAVERS: Well, when there are questions about things,

at least I'm in the position where we can clarify the law and

make sure that things are being done legally, and –

RC: Okay, so we're – I'm sorry, go ahead.

MS. BEAVERS: - and I think that that is the job of the

secretary of state to make sure that people who run for

president, who run for federal offices, are qualified to be on

the ballot.

RC: Well, and I don't think anyone would disagree with

that. I'm not sure that there aren't states out there that

don't require some sort of proof already, and we do know – and

we do know, I've read that the Obama campaign ordered a number

of birth certificates, and I'm not sure what states required

them.

MS. BEAVERS: Right.

RC: Apparently he satisfied all fifty states, and I

believe that most states do require that the parties file some

sort of certificate stating that the President was eligible.

I've seen a few of those posted online.

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MS. BEAVERS: Now, you're asking me to get into a lot of

things that I haven't really looked into yet.

RC: Well, I mean, you've put it in your bill. It says an

original long form birth certificate.

MS. BEAVERS: Well, we are following some of the bills that

have been filed in lots of other states, and you know how it is,

you file your bill and, you know, you prepare before you go to

committee.

RC: Well, that's one question I had. I've actually looked

at several of these bills that have been filed, and there seems

to be a lot of similarities. Were these actually submitted by

someone else or a central organization as a template?

MS. BEAVERS: I have no idea. I have no idea. That's what

we do lots of times. You know, we look at what other states are

filing, and if there's something that we think would be good,

you know, we'll pick up on it. You know, I filed the Firearms

Freedom Act in our state two years ago. I copied Montana's

bill, and we actually got ours passed before Montana did. We

unashamedly copied their bill. They knew what we were doing.

We've worked with them. And you know, a lot of states work

together.

I'm working on the health care compact right now, and we're

working with a number of other states to make sure we all have

the same language and working together on those bills.

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RC: Well, let's get back to this, your bill – and I've got

the wording right here – this is 1091 – says one of the

requirements that the party has to provide, or the candidate, is

– and let me find it here – an original – I think it says, yeah,

an original long form birth certificate, but you don't know what

that is.

MS. BEAVERS: I'm not sure exactly what long form means,

but it means an original certified copy of a birth certificate.

RC: Well, it says – here's the entire paragraph. It says

an original – to prove citizenship other – that's other than

natural born citizenship, wait a minute, let me back up here.

It says an original long form birth certificate showing the date

and place of birth, names of the hospital, and the attending

physician and signatures of witnesses and attendants.

MS. BEAVERS: And I don't know about you, but my birth

certificate has all of that on it, and every birth certificate –

RC: Well, that's a lot of older birth – but are you aware

that a lot of states now give what – only give the short form

birth certificate.

MS. BEAVERS: No, I was not. All of the – I only know

about Tennessee, and I was born in Alabama, and so I only know

what I have seen.

RC: Well, what if someone were not born in a hospital? It

wouldn't have an attending physician signature, so they wouldn't

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be eligible to run in Tennessee if this bill passes. Is that

correct?

MS. BEAVERS: But they would have a birth certificate.

RC: Well, sure, but your bill doesn't say birth

certificate. It says an original long form birth certificate

that includes date and place of birth, name of the hospital,

names of the hospital, and the attending physician and

signatures of the witnesses.

MS. BEAVERS: And that's normally what's on a long form

birth certificate.

RC: It used to be, but a lot of states – as a matter of

fact, the state of Hawaii where President Obama was born, for

people born since, I believe, around 2001, only give a

certificate like the one that's been posted for President Obama,

which gives the time of birth, the name of the parents, and the

place of birth.

So according to your bill, it doesn't sound like someone

born in Hawaii since – eventually someone born in a state that

only gives the short form would be eligible for presidency. Are

you aware of the part of the – there's a section of the

constitution called the full faith and credit clause? It's in

Article 4 Section 1.

MS. BEAVERS: Yes.

RC: Well, do you know what it says about state documents?

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MS. BEAVERS: You tell me.

RC: Well, I think it says that any state is required to

accept the documents from another state. So that basically

means that Tennessee has to accept a valid birth certificate

from Hawaii or Montana or any other state. It means that states

can't go adding requirements to these sort of documents. A

birth certificate proves the place of birth, and the short form

birth certificate does that.

MS. BEAVERS: I just have to take your word for it, because

I don't know any of that.

RC: Well, I think that's my interpretation of what the

constitution says. Let's get into –

MS. BEAVERS: I have no knowledge of short form birth

certificates, you know, in Hawaii.

RC: Okay, now, another part of this law, and I think this

is in 1091. I know it's in the other one. It says, this has to

do with citizenship, okay, it says the – oh, darn, naturally I'm

on the air here. What does your law say about dual citizenship?

MS. BEAVERS: I'm at home. I didn't bring a copy of the

bill home with me tonight.

RC: Okay, well, I've got it here. I found it. It's on

the –

MS. BEAVERS: I was told that you wanted to talk about my

health freedom act.

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the time said that he had to – I think at age 21 or 23, I'm not

sure – he would have had to have pledged allegiance to Great

Britain or to Kenya at the time. So it automatically expired is

what I'm saying, but there may in fact have been other

presidents who were dual citizens. I think there's been some

research done in that. It's very likely that, for instance –

your bill, by the way, doesn't address the vice presidency, does

it? I don't see any requirements for vice presidency. So they

don't have to meet this bill, or meet the requirements of this

bill?

MS. BEAVERS: Well, the vice president is usually chosen

later after you get somebody out of the primaries. I think this

would do, you know, with the presidents whoever is running in

all of the primaries, and then, of course, yeah, the vice

president should be checked out, too. That may be an amendment

we can put on our bill.

RC: Well, I would suggest that the vice president better

meet the same requirements as the president, because –

MS. BEAVERS: I agree.

RC: -- they might have to take – as a matter of fact, if

the president-elect dies or is incapable of taking office, it's

the vice president who is sworn in in January, I believe. I

think it's by the 20th amendment, or one of the amendments.

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So what about this idea of dual citizenship, though? I'm

just wondering where you got that, because I have never – as far

as I know, the constitution doesn't even mention dual

citizenship, but I've never read a single constitutional scholar

who even mentioned that that would somehow disqualify someone

from being president. Do you really want that in the bill? Is

that your thought?

MS. BEAVERS: Well, I'm sure that this will all be

discussed as we go through committee.

RC: Oh, I have no doubt that it will.

Another thing you might consider when you get in committee

and start talking about this bill is what about someone who is

adopted? You know, can an adopted person be president, because

in a lot of states that I'm aware of, an adopted person may not

even know who their real parents are. As a matter of fact,

those records are actually sealed if the child is adopted from

birth in many states. So does that mean someone who is adopted

couldn't be president?

MS. BEAVERS: I have no idea. I have no idea. I mean, I

would think by the time that you ran for president that you

would have probably, you know, found your – at least had a copy

of a birth certificate of some kind. You have to have birth

certificates for all kinds of things, like –

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RC: Well, yeah, you have to have a birth certificate to

get a passport usually, but, again, I'm not sure there's any

requirement that I know of where you'd need an original long

form birth certificate. That's what's bothering me is that you

have a law, a proposed law out there, that it appears that the

current president wouldn't meet, because he has - had dual

citizenship. He doesn't have it now, but he had dual British

and American citizenship from birth, and actually, Mitt Romney

may not be eligible under this bill. Are you aware of that?

MS. BEAVERS: No, I wasn't.

RC: Well, George Romney, his father, you probably

remember, ran for president, was born in Mexico. So Mexico

confers citizenship by jus soli, which is place of birth. So he

was born with dual citizenship, and it also passes down. So it

is very possible that Mitt Romney – I'm not saying that he does,

but unless George Romney somehow gave up his Mexican

citizenship, Mitt Romney could be a – have dual citizenship.

MS. BEAVERS: Obviously you've studied this whole thing.

RC: Well, yeah, I've put a lot of study into this, and it

bothers me that these bills are being produced, which apparently

have been supplied to people like you, and I'm not – I

understand there are a lot of bills that come through your

office, but I would hope that you would take this seriously that

when you propose a bill like this that you should certainly know

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what the consequences are, I would think. It sounds like

someone has sent you a template, and you've passed it on, and

certainly hope it gets polished up in committee, because I

certainly see some issues with this.

MS. BEAVERS: That's what committees are for.

RC: Well, again, I would think if you've put your name on

something that you would have a little better understanding. I

guess I have to express some disappointment that you seem to not

understand a lot about a bill you submitted which would in

effect make the current occupant of the White House ineligible

to run again in Tennessee.

MS. BEAVERS: First of all, I told you, you know, I haven't

really looked – had time to study it and read up on it. I have

probably 100 bills filed, and you study them before you go to

committee. I can assure you that before that bill is put on

notice I'll know everything about it. Like I said, I was led to

understand that you were going to talk about my health freedom

act, and just the eligibility bill was mentioned.

RC: Well, I certainly didn't mean to mislead your

assistant, and again, if we've really covered it, it sounds like

this bill needs a lot of changes. I think talking in

generalities, though, I just don't see the problem. To my

knowledge, we've never had an ineligible president. I think the

people do the vetting of – the people who are voting do the

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vetting. I think we know more about candidates for presidents

probably than we know our neighbors, because people are out

there digging from the first time a candidate becomes a serious

contender for the office. People want to know everything about

them. So that's one thing I don't understand is this meme that

I hear that, well, we didn't know anything about Obama before he

ran or any other candidate. I mean, we knew a lot about them.

We knew pretty much, we knew where he went to college, we knew

his life's history, we had his speeches. I just don't see this

as a problem that needs fixing.

Now I think the employment rate in your state is about 9.1

percent, isn't it, and it's pretty high all over the country.

To me that's something that's a problem that probably requires

attention, and I think health care's another one.

MS. BEAVERS: Well, I can assure you, I passed two health

care bills through committee this week. We are working on

reducing regulations on businesses in this state so that we're a

business-friendly state, and you know, you sound like you've

been reading the press releases from the Democrats down here

today.

RC: No, I just, when I see a bill like this that I think

has some ridiculous requirements in it, I just have to wonder

why it's being submitted.

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Hey, we'll talk about health care in a minute if you have

the time, but I do have a couple of people who'd like to talk to

you. Do you have a minute to take some questions here?

MS. BEAVERS: Well, I've just got another minute or two.

RC: Okay, is this Georgetown? I think I recognize the

number.

GT: Yes, hi.

RC: Say hello to Senator Beavers.

GT: Hello, Senator Beavers, how are you doing? I go by

the screenname GeorgetownJD, kind of obvious. Georgetown is my

alma mater.

But it's a special pleasure to meet you, because I am – I

was born in Tennessee. All my family was born in Tennessee, two

brothers, my mom, my dad, and all my grandparents going way

back, and so I take a particular interest in this bill that

we've been talking about, and so I had just a couple of

questions.

I'm actually – after I found out you were going to be a

guest on the show, I went to my safe document box and pulled out

some birth certificates, and I'm actually holding my long form

Tennessee birth certificate and also have the one for my father.

He was born in 1929 in Crockett County. It must have been a

rural birth, because the town is not filled in. I can tell you

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that they lived just outside of Friendship. I'm sure you know

right where that is. And I was born in Dyersburg.

MS. BEAVERS: Okay.

GT: At a hospital that doesn't even exist any more. I

guess I'm not going to be able to become famous, because they

won't have a place to put my plaque.

I think what's interesting is – have you had an opportunity

to actually look at a long form birth certificate issued by the

Department of Health in the state of Tennessee?

MS. BEAVERS: Yes, I have two children who were born in

Tennessee.

GT: Okay, well, I don't know what theirs look like, but I

can tell you that mine from 1955 and my father's from 1929 don't

meet the requirements of this bill, and so I'm kind of

wondering; here I am unquestionably a natural born citizen of

the United States, [inaudible] native of Tennessee, and now

living a couple states away from Tennessee, but just about every

relative I know still lives in West Tennessee, several in

Nashville and mostly in the Memphis and the Jackson area, and

it's a little disconcerting to me to take a look at this and

tell you that my birth certificate, that is signed and has a

certificate from the Department of Health Division of Vital

Statistics. I'm birth number xxx-xx-xxxxx, and my father was

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certificate of birth number xxx, and neither of us would be able

to meet the requirements under this bill.

For one thing, his does not have the name of the hospital.

Mine does, but there are not two witnesses on here. So I'm

wondering what would be your suggestion as to how I could go

about proving my natural born citizenship under this if this

were to be enacted?

MS. BEAVERS: Well, I will assure you I'll get hold of some

information on what was on the birth certificates back then, and

as I said, as this thing goes through committee, it will be

thoroughly vetted.

GT: Okay, and then I think that RC brought this point up,

but I'm also holding the birth certificates of a neighboring

state, the state of – the Commonwealth of Virginia, which meets

up with Tennessee up in your northeastern corner. Both of my

children were born in the Commonwealth of Virginia, and I have

the certificates of birth that were issued to them shortly after

they were born, and then later in order to get passports, we

went back and had new certifications of vital records sent to

us. And these have even less information. They are sealed. I

mean, they have the seal of the Commonwealth on them. They are

on security paper, and outside of the file number and the date

of birth and the place of birth and the names and ages of the

mom and dad, there is a – and the gender of the baby, that's all

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there is on the Commonwealth of Virginia's, the only birth

certificate that's ever been given out, even since the children

were born.

So that might be something I think that you might want to

talk to the committee. It might be helpful, I think, if you

were to perhaps get the committee staff to collect birth

certificates, the official birth certificates from a number of

states, and see what you can do to make the law comply in a way

that allows for the – to accommodate the various kind of vital

statistics that are certified by all 50 states as well as the

District of Columbia and the various territories of the United

States.

Another question that I have relates to the provision in

here, as well, for the 14-year residency requirement. You know,

the constitution requires that the president and, of course, the

vice president as well, be – it says in exact terms 14 years a

resident of the United States, but it doesn't say what 14 years

it is, so I'm kind of wondering why the affidavit, the sworn

statement, has to basically establish the candidate's residence

for the preceding 14 years. Is that kind of perhaps an

oversight in the drafting, because several of our presidents in

the past would not have met that requirement. I think it was –

was it Calvin Coolidge who actually lived abroad for the prior

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14 years before he ran for the presidency? Was it Hoover? It

wasn't Hoover; it was –

RC: Well, Georgetown, I have an even better example.

Dwight Eisenhower was somewhat occupied in the 14 years before

he ran for president and ended up spending, had a little four-

year vacation in Europe, I think. I don't think he would be

eligible under this bill, either.

GT: Yeah, another good example, yeah. I think Coolidge

had spent the previous 14 years actually in London, because

that's where his business interests were, but there was never a

question that some 14-year period, and I'm not sure it has to

even be consecutive 14 years, as long as the sum of all the

years that you've resided in the United States totals 14 years.

So I'm wondering if that's something that you'd be willing to

address in committee.

MS. BEAVERS: I'm sure we will.

RC: Hey, Georgetown –

GT: The only other observation I wanted to make is that,

you know, I think RC, you were talking about some of the bills

of the other states. This word for word exactly mirrors the

bill that was introduced in Arizona, and you know that that one

failed, because a number of the constitutional issues were

brought up in that committee, and then it was voted not to pass

that forward to the floor. So I'm just wondering if maybe, you

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know, the experience of some other states who've used identical

wording, it might be something that you'd want to consider, too,

the experience of some of the other legislatures and take a look

at some of the transcripts of the hearings to see what problems

they might have detected in this kind of language.

MS. BEAVERS: Right, I'm sure we'll be doing that.

GT: Well, thank you for letting me share my observations.