The Untold - High Stakes Transcript

8/18/2019 The Untold - High Stakes Transcript

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The Untold

High Stakes

Transmission: 11:02am, Monday 11th January 2016

Network: BBC Radio 4

Presenter: Grace Dent

Interviewer/Producer: Laurence Grissell


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Synopsis

The Untold is a BBC Radio 4 series in which Grace Dent presents the untold dramas of 21st

century Britain.

In this edition, the stakes couldn’t be higher for 26 year old Steve: he needs to prove he’s

quit gambling by Christmas in order to move back in with his partner and two kids.

Producer Laurence Grissell follows Steve as he attempts to win back Stacey’s trust in time

for the Christmas festivities in the family home.

MUSIC

Grace

Love’s a gamble. You take your chances don’t you?

Act. Door opens

Steve

Hello, are you alright? Alright kiddies?

Act. Children laugh

Grace

When Stacey saw Steve 10 years ago – that’s him arriving home from work – she took a

chance and fell head over heels [in love]. Stacey and Steve live in a little rented house on a

‘60s estate in Basingstoke. She’s a receptionist and he works in customer services.

Lily

Dinner time!


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Stacey

Come on then.

Grace

They’re one of those hardworking families you hear politicians banging on about.

Callum

… so tasty.

Grace

That’s their son, Callum, he’s six.

Actuality

Lily

Always tasty.

Grace

And Lily, she’s two. Callum is fair-haired and smiley and Lily, she’s a tiny strawberry blond

bundle.

Actuality

Lily

Eating my dinner, eating my dinner…

Grace

And for them this is just a normal family night, it’s October, there’s meatballs, they’re

chatting and giggling.


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Lily

I’m just talking Callum

Grace

But that’s not the full story. Stacey’s gamble on Steve hasn’t quite paid off.

Stacey

Eat it nicely.

Grace

And the decision she needs to make now is the biggest risk of her life.

Actuality

Steve

… do you want to come and pick you pyjamas sweetie…

Grace

After dinner it’s Callum and Lily’s bedtime.

Stacey

Give us a kiss Callum.

Steve

Mum, mum, I love you so much!

Steve

We love you so much.


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Grace

With the kids both tucked up in bed it’s time for Steve to go, because he doesn’t live with

his children anymore.

Steve

The weather could be better today, I will be honest.

Grace

Stacey has kicked Steve out.

Act. Steve lights cigarette, rain, footsteps

Grace

He’s down the road sleeping on the sofa at his stepdad’s. Over three months producer

Laurence Grissell has been following him.

Laurence

So how long has it been on the – sleeping on the sofa?

Steve

Since April, since April, I was at my auntie’s before that but she had some relatives move

over… or back across from Australia.

Laurence

What’s it like sleeping on the sofa for such a long amount of time?

Steve

It’s – it’s uncomfortable, I think it’s the fact I’ve got nothing of my own.


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Act. Cigarette lighter

I’ve got nothing of mine at the moment and also, I mean, I’m a burden on other people, I’m

interrupting their week. You’re sort of on the edge of your seat all the time, you can’t

relax, making sure I’m out of people’s way. I’ve been enough trouble for people as it is. I’ve

been a burden for long enough. Just, you know, as and when Stacey’s happy for me to come

back.

MUSIC

Grace

This is The Untold.

Steve

It was just as simple as the local shop we had had a Coral bookmakers [betting shop]

opposite and, um… yeah just a couple of signs and that and you find yourself going in. And

before you know it the first thing I did in the morning I’d check the hashtag on Twitter,

which was “bookie bashing” and you see people put their winnings up, screenshots, and

you’ll see people bag thousands of pounds. I think there was one guy he crashed William

Hill [a betting shop] for the weekend. You think blimey this guy’s having a dream -

£180,000. So you think 180, wow you know, he’s sorted, he’s sussed, he’s got it made now

this guy. You think, ah, I’m going to do something here.

MUSIC

Act. Football commentary

Steve

You saw the winners but you never saw the losers.


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I always thought I was on top of it but we all got the apps on the phone, so you’ve got the

apps, I had a few online accounts and I didn’t think nothing of it. And the more I started

playing online the more things that you see, I mean the promotional emails were just

something else. I mean I signed up with Sky Bet, Paddy Power, Bet Fair [gambling websites]and I didn’t put any limits on it. And at that point it just grew and grew and grew.

If I lost a Friday night football match I made sure I hit the 11 o’clock Saturday Dutch game

and if I missed that I had the 12.30 kick off in the premier league. If that didn’t happen I’ve

got all the 3 o’clocks in the Premier League, the Championship League, one league two,

even the Spanish league which kicked off a bit later. If there was nothing I’ve got the 5.30

on the Premiership and if you lose you’re chasing a win, even to the point where Barcelona

and that kick off 9 o’clock on a Sunday evening, so I could occupy myself from the Friday

night with a good 15, 16 different times of matches to try and pick up a win. And then all

the time I’m still doing my slots [gambling or “fruit” machines]. Every time I went for a

cigarette – 50 quid, security number, deposit.

Laurence

And the slots were on the phone?

Steve

The slots were on the phone. I’m not happy putting £50 into a machine, I can’t do that, but

if I click on my phone and say 50 quid, security number, deposit, it’s just digits. I mean I

started borrowing money off – get loans I had no interest in paying back. All payday loans,

in your bank within the hour – 400 quid, bang, have it sir. And whatever I wanted it ended

up in my account at the end of that day.

It just got worse and worse. And… I didn’t know what I could do about it. And even if I

did win, I could have won any amount of money and I would have put it all right back in

which is ridiculous. If I won £2,000 that’s going straight back in. All oblivious to Stacey at

this point, she didn’t have a clue.


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Stacey

And then I had a knock on the door from our landlord with an eviction notice because he

hadn’t kept up with the rent payments. And it was shock, complete shock. I broke down

into tears, obviously I had the children with me in the house, I just completely broke down

into tears. So obviously I confronted him about that and that’s sort of when he told me that

the gambling had got – you know got really bad and he told me to the extent that it was.

And… I told him to go. It was pure hatred and anger towards him.

Steve

I mean it killed me moving out the family home, it really did, I never spent more than a day

or two from the kids and then to move out completely – I don’t know I think it was only

when I’d woken up the following day and I’ve gone god blimey, you know, I’m actually on me

own here.

Grace

Being told to leave the family home, for me I’d hope that would be a wakeup call – no warm

body beside you when you wake up, no tiny faces wanting their breakfasts. But not for

Steve. In fact his gambling problem just got worse.

Steve

I honestly thought it would be as simple as – I’m moving out, I’ll win a load of money, I’ll

come back in, we’re all playing happy families. Just sweep all this under the rug and this is

going to pay off all my debts, this is going to cover everything I need, it’s going to bring

myself a lovely holiday and all the rest of it.

And it got to the April and I got into work at 8 o’clock or about ten to eight as normal, I

actually did this at work on the work computer which, you know, I should have got me hand

slapped in the first place anyway… but I got paid my amount of money, I checked my bank

come 8 o’clock, that’s fine, and everything I had left I lost within the hour.

So I lost a full month’s wage in an hour on the day I got paid.


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And at that point that’s where you sit back and you think I’ve got a major issue here. I

thought I’m shoulder deep in this, it’s not knee deep anymore this is shoulder deep. I have

gambled all my money away.

I had a two bed house, lovely house, beautiful other half, two cracking kids and I just – I

chucked it all away.

Lily

…car, one car, car, car, car, what’s this – helicopter.

Stacey

Helicopter. Police one.

Lily

Look! Little!!

Stacey

A safari one, look.

Lily

Oh wow.

Grace

It’s October 2015. The good news is Steve hasn’t placed a bet since April, that’s five

months ago but he’s still sleeping on the sofa at his stepdad’s because Stacey, showing

terrific backbone, if you ask me, wants things done properly. If she’s taking a gamble on

Steve and letting him back in the house, she needs the odds to be good and this, she thinks,

will take three things. I’ll let her explain.


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Stacey

I’ve told him that before he can move back in, I want to be the one that’s in control of the

finances. So he’s got to sort of be okay with that, which I don’t think he is at the moment.

He doesn’t want that control taken away from him. But I’ve said I can’t – I can’t have it any

other way because we basically lost everything before and I can’t risk doing that again.

Stacey

Can you find a car that’s the same colour as mummy’s? That’s a little bit like mummy’s car,

the colour.

Lily

Open it.

Stacey

Put all the shopping in the boot.

Lily

And drive.

Stacey

And then drive. Is that how mummy drives?

Lily

Yeah.

Stacey

Another thing – he doesn’t drive at the moment, so a big thing is that I want him to be

driving because it will help massively. Because at the moment it all falls on me.


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Stacey

I don’t drive that fast do I?

Lily

Yeah.

Stacey

I do, I drive really fast do I?

Lily

No.

Stacey

No, we can’t drive really fast can we?

Lily

No, if you drive…

Stacey

What happens if we drive really fast?

Lily

Um, policeman tell us off.

Stacey

Policeman will tell us off, that’s right.


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Stacey

And for me I also – I would like him to seek some professional help for it, for his gambling,

that’s one thing he hasn’t done and it is a conversation that every time we have it it does get

a little bit touchy because he doesn’t feel that he needs that help. He feels that just by

completely not letting himself gamble anymore that that’s helping him.

Steve

Myself I’m not a sharer as such. I know they do a few things out there, I just – I haven’t

explored it, I haven’t looked into it, it’s probably me being a bit – I don’t know a bit of a prat

really but I sort of feel I’ve done okay since April. And Stacey’s obviously said give it a go,

you’ve got nothing to lose. But I don’t know, it might be something I explore.

Stacey

For me that’s the bottom line of it all, if he can finally accept what he’s done, finally accept it

and get some support and help with it, yeah there’s no reason as to why he can’t move back

in.

Laurence

Have you got a timescale in mind?

Stacey

We have sort of said that – well we’d love for him to move back in before Christmas, it

would be nice to end the year with a really nice family Christmas, him living back here again

and it just needs Steve to do his part now.

MUSIC

Stacey

What did we go and see?


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Lily

Fireworks!

Stacey

Fireworks?

Lily

Yeah…bang!

Grace

It’s November. Steve’s gone seven months without gambling. He’s keeping out of trouble

but I’m starting to see with a gambling habit, well, trouble finds you, it’s on every street, it’s

in every ad break, it’s on the lips of your mates in the pub.


Grace

Today is the first round of the FA [Football Association] Cup. Now for betting shops this is

a big deal, there’s lots of hype and buzz, it’s like they’re saying get involved, have a flutter.


Steve

It’s hard, well I’m finding it a bit hard today because me first stop would have originally been

bookies [betting shop] because FA Cup first round you’ve got small teams against big teams,

upsets galore. So I mean this morning it was a bit hard I had to try and preoccupy myself on

that because yeah any FA Cup day – straight down the bookies normally first thing. So it’s

put me a bit wonky this morning.


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Act. Footsteps, town

Grace

We’re in Basingstoke town centre.

Steve

Then you’ve got this one - my regular shop, when I come out on a Saturday, which is this

Betfred [betting shop], right on the corner, Paddy Power [betting shop] that’s just two up,

so we’ve just passed that as we walk higher up. Take a left you’ve got a Ladbroke’s [betting

shop], another Ladbroke’s by the bus station which is a stone’s throw down the street andthere’s a Coral [betting shop] just over the other side as well, another bookies.

Grace

Steve pops into his local boozer [pub] for a pint.

Act. Pub, TVs paying football

Steve

Hello Martin, how are you – good?

Grace

It’s the sort of place with TVs on every wall where you’re sure to see someone you go way

back with.

Steve

Everyone around here, especially all them regular fellas up front, they’ll have a pocketful of

betting slips, it just sort of comes as nature.


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I went out Wednesday night – Arsenal played Bayer Munich and got absolutely stuffed. And

one of the fellas I was with he had a big win come in at the end of it and you see the buzz he

got on it, so I think he pocketed well over 1200 quid, something like that. So won a lot of

money out of it and he had that buzz, the buzz that every person who places a bet wantswhen you win. And no it was bit hard that was on Wednesday. Then obviously again today

it sort of – it’s tickled me mind all the way through the week – FA Cup first round – and

again…

Laurence

Because this time last year…

Steve

I was deep.

You’ll see the football, at the end of this game, you’ll have Coral, Betfair, Ladbrokes – all

have an advert, it’ll say seven to one, nine to one, 10 to one, Paddy Power in store offer

now, such and such. Well Paddy Power’s there, Betfred’s there, Ladbrokes round the

corner, Coral across the way – if you do fancy it it’s right there on your doorstep.

It’s rammed down your throat. It is thrown right at you.

Laurence

What’s the closest do you think you’ve come to sort of…

Steve

What placing a bet? It was probably half time. Went out for a smoke out the front of

where we were on Wednesday night and Arsenal were three – nil down, I knew they

weren’t going to win but it was so ridiculous, like 50 to one for them to come back. And I

probably stood there for a good five minutes. But that did play with me, I was very, very


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close. There’s just nothing – I wouldn’t say to look forward to as such but I’ve got nothing

that gives me that bit of a rush.

Laurence

Have you discussed with Stacey how difficult you’ve been finding it lately?

Steve

Er, I haven’t yet no, she’s always said just give her a call or something like that but… yeah I

don’t know, it’s another burden I’m putting on somebody which I don’t really want to do,

I’ve done way more than enough of that already.

Grace

It’s like Steve’s one regular 26 year old man, up against a colossal multibillion pound heavily

hyped industry and he really fears that, despite his resolve, sooner or later he’ll slip. I

suppose the big difference now is Stacey has the full picture of what’s going on but if you

asked me right now with regards to his family Steve – he’s hedging his bets.

Steve

It would be good to move back in but I think we just need to make sure it is going to be fine

because it’s been a topsy turvy year. And I mean we’re going to disrupt our week to week

or day to day life when I move back in, it’s going to change again.

Grace

To me Steve sounds cautious. But Stacey, well she’s definitely more optimistic.

Stacey

By the end of November, it would be lovely that he moves back in, definitely and I think we

will do, I think we can, I think we will. But yeah there’s no reason why by the end of the

month it won’t all be done and he’ll be living back here.


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MUSIC

Grace

It’s December. It’s eight months since Steve last placed a bet but it’s still far from clear if

Steve will be back home by Christmas. Stacey and Steve have reached a rather awkward

but relatively safe deadlock. Maybe it’s one a lot of couples empathise with – they’re not

where they want to be, but it’s less painful than splitting up.

Steve

I’m going to win this.

Stacey

Is daddy going to win? Who do you reckon’s going to win?

Callum

Me but if I get some strikes.

Stacey

No I think I’m going to.

Grace

Stacey, Steve, Callum and Lily are off to the bowling alley.

Steve

Have you got your keys and that yeah?


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Act. Car door

Stacey

I’ve got keys yeah. Let daddy squeeze in.

Lily

I love going in the car.

Steve

You love going in the car?

Callum

Well dad we need to drive…

Lily

It’s so exciting, so exciting

Stacey

It’s so exciting?

Act. Music on car radio

Steve

I spy with my little eye something beginning with G – G. What can you see – what can you

see that begins with G?

Callum

Girl.


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Steve

No.

Lily

I win. I win.

Steve

You’re sort of missing the…. no it’s not grass.

Stacey

Good guess though Callum.

Lily

No your turn now Mummy.

Stacey

My turn?

So hopefully we can get a game.

Steve

Maybe we should have booked a lane.

Stacey

No I think it’s not too bad... Yeah I’ve left my purse at home, not on purpose I didn’t bring

a bag.


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Steve

Oh that old chestnut.

Stacey

No, no seriously, I didn’t bring a bag.

Steve

Alright there… do a family bowl, two adults, two children.

Grace

This is all quite bittersweet because the bowling alley is next door to the ice skating rink and

that’s where Steve first set eyes on Stacey all those years ago. In fact today is a pretty

important day.

Steve

We’ve been together 10 years today.

Stacey

Yeah 10 years. Too long!

Steve

Well I wouldn’t say that but…

Stacey

Ten years officially today, isn’t it.

Steve

Yeah you can call it official.


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Laurence

Remind me how old you were at that time?

Stacey

Sixteen and fifteen?

Steve

Yeah I was 16, I was at my first job. Stacey came down to visit me and spy on me for a few

weeks while I was working at the ice rink.

Stacey

I didn’t spy on you!

Steve

So she says. And one day I plucked up the courage to go and have a word.

Stacey

Oh you didn’t, you sent your friend! [laughs]

Steve

My friend took it upon himself to try and help me out and unfortunately I looked foolish in

the meantime. That’s when we got together to where we are now.

Stacey

Ten years later.


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Steve

With two kids and a lot of life experience I’d say.

Stacey

Yeah definitely, grown up a lot since then.

Steve

Yeah, yeah massively, yeah – two naïve teenagers to two - or at least one – head-screwed-

on adult and then me. That’s where we stand anyway.

Laurence

What do you think it was that drew you to each other? Stacey first.

Stacey

I dunno, you was always really confident and you always made me laugh and we just had fun

together didn’t we.

Steve

We did.

Stacey

We just had a good time together and I think we used to just talk and…

Steve

And that was good enough.

Stacey

You know we used to walk, it sounds so silly but we would just meet up and just go walk.


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Steve

Yeah I mean I think – my side of it – I dunno she was really patient, she helped me in several

bits. I had a bit of trouble with my old man, my dad, he cleared off before I arrived – I was

told he wanted to meet me and I decided I wasn’t going to go ahead. And I dunno she made

me feel comfortable with making that decision.

Act. Bowling alley

Stacey

Hurrah. [Laughs] That was a big heavy one!

Steve

You have all your fun time and then we sort of turned serious quite quick. I sort of…

Stacey

Yeah we did, we did, we moved in together quite quick, we was only – what – 18.

Laurence

Too quick?

Steve

Yes.

Stacey

Yeah, yeah it was. Yeah I think it was.


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Steve

But I mean shortly after that that’s when we found…

Stacey

That’s when Callum came along.

Steve

Yeah Callum was on his way.

Stacey

I took you out for a drink, didn’t I, to break the news a little bit easier.

Steve

Yeah to soften the blow.

Stacey

Soften the blow, yeah.

Steve

Yeah I think it was just – I kind of thought well that’s it my life’s over. And of course it

wasn’t or it’s not.

Act. Bowling alley

Steve

Right you need a strike on this one mate. Right size yourself up. It might take…. oh no it’s

veering off mate, veering off, don’t worry. Right come on then this will change the standings

if we can do this. Oh, oh, oh, oh, that’s it good lad, good lad.


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Laurence

You know it’s been a difficult year… 18 months.

Stacey and Steve

Eighteen months.

Stacey

Yeah 18 months, it’s been very difficult, it has been hasn’t it…

Laurence

You Stacey had some conditions for Steve to move back in.

Stacey

Yeah, yeah.

Laurence

And I suppose it would interesting to get from you both how far you feel you’ve moved

towards satisfying some of those.

Stacey

Yeah. Obviously I had – I had the physical conditions, if you like, as in driving – which still

hasn’t been done – that was the big thing.

Steve

I mean the driving – that is, an intensive course in February.

Stacey

That’s a must, it’s needed.


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Steve

Yeah it’s an intensive course in February, I’ve got a little pouch away or savings away for

that, so that will happen next year. I need it too just purely for work as well.

Stacey

Are you going to promise me that?

Steve

I have promised you that.

Stacey

Yeah?

Steve

Yeah I’ve emailed all these instructors.

Stacey

You know the other things that I really needed to make sure of is that I wasn’t kept in the

dark about finances anymore and I wanted to have some control over it which I believe I

have now. I feel like I have. I control, sort of the money – the going out for bills and things

like that now.

Steve

We’re still not meeting the counselling side of it.


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Stacey

No but it wasn’t even so much about professional counselling or anything like that. I just

needed you to talk more but you are talking to me about it and you still do, even now. I

know that you haven’t gambled for months and months now.

Steve

April.

Stacey

Yeah, you know, I know that.

Laurence

And tell me – the last time I came you were hoping that Steve would be moving back in by

Christmas.

Stacey

Yeah, I think it’s going to be after Christmas though now isn’t it, we’ve just been so busy.

Steve

I think it’s closer – I mean we’ve got the formalities for me to – well to come back…

Stacey

Yeah it’s like I was saying…

Steve

I’m not inviting myself in obviously, I mean I’m waiting to be welcomed.


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Stacey

Yeah, yeah.

Laurence

Is that the dynamic Steve – you’re “waiting to be welcomed”?

Stacey

[Laughs]

Steve

I would say so yeah. You know you can’t push your luck too far with women, that’s what

I’ve found in life. But no…

Stacey

Oh really!

Steve

I think we’ve – we can do it.

Stacey

Yeah.

Steve

So just waiting on her really isn’t it. So…

Stacey

[Laughs] I’m not hesitating with it I promise.


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Laurence

I just wondered though whether you are a little bit nervous about it though.

Stacey

I am, I am a little bit nervous yeah. It could all go wrong again, I think that’s what it is,

because at the moment we’ve got it set up as in if you were to, for whatever reason, start

gambling again and lose everything sort of your end it’s not going to affect me and the kids

because we’ve set ourselves up to be sort of independent really. You know, I have with the

kids.

Laurence

Have you ever discussed what the consequences would be if Steve were to gamble again?

Stacey

I think we both know.

Steve

We’d call it a day wouldn’t we.

Stacey

Yeah it would be – it would be it.

Steve

Yeah the amount of agro that it caused I can’t risk it.

Stacey

Yeah, no, I think we both know that if it was ever to happen again then I can’t go through it

all again.


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Steve

No, no exactly.

Stacey

I can’t and I can’t put the kids through it and everything else. So I think we both know but

we just hope it never comes to that.

Steve

No, no, no not at all. No you’re my lot ain’t you, so can’t lose me that easily. Sort of all or

nothing now isn’t it.

Stacey

More to lose than just money isn’t it.

Steve

Exactly, exactly, it’s not worth it.

Stacey

No.

Steve

So… no, we’re well understood.

Stacey

Yes definitely.

Steve

Well understood.


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Stacey

[Laughs]

Act. Bowling alley

Steve

Go on Lils, work your magic….

Stacey

Ready, steady….

Grace

So that’s where we leave them. What would you do if you were Stacey?

Stacey

Oh no….

Grace

I just hope that Stacey and Steve and Lily and Callum have many, many happy days just like

this in the future and that they carry on being just a normal everyday family… despite the

odds.

Stacey

Yay!! Let go – let go!

Steve

The only issue is – it’s a bit hard for me to say to Stace, or promise, that I’ll never gamble

again. That’s the hardest thing about it.

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The Untold - High Stakes Transcript