St. Augustine: On Christian Doctrine

St. Augustine: On St. Augustine: On Christian DoctrineChristian Doctrine

Betty Hairston Betty Hairston (Submitted separately)(Submitted separately)

Gretchen FlynnGretchen Flynn

Benjamin CastonBenjamin Caston

Week 5 PresentationWeek 5 Presentation

Group 5 Analyzed a work on Christian Group 5 Analyzed a work on Christian Doctrine by St. AugustineDoctrine by St. Augustine

We will be looking at examples of:We will be looking at examples of:>Ethos>Ethos >Logos>Logos>Pathos>Pathos >Invention>Invention>Style>Style >Arrangement>Arrangement>Delivery>Delivery

Ethos #1 Ethos #1 (Quote)(Quote)

"When all these things are taught by "When all these things are taught by masters, they are greatly esteemed, bought masters, they are greatly esteemed, bought for a great price, and sold with boasting. I for a great price, and sold with boasting. I am ashamed to be tainted by this boasting am ashamed to be tainted by this boasting when I discuss these things in this way." when I discuss these things in this way."

St. Augustine #14St. Augustine #14

Ethos #1 Ethos #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

He is speaking of figures of speech, and He is speaking of figures of speech, and says that they are taught by someone who says that they are taught by someone who is knowledgeable on the topic and because is knowledgeable on the topic and because of this we find them to be highly regarded. of this we find them to be highly regarded. Then they are much in demand and sold for Then they are much in demand and sold for a huge price and talked about with a huge price and talked about with much regard. The speaker admits that he is much regard. The speaker admits that he is vulnerable and was taken in by this. vulnerable and was taken in by this.


““Sometimes, when the truth is demonstrated Sometimes, when the truth is demonstrated in speaking…the matter itself is pleasing in speaking…the matter itself is pleasing when it is revealed simply because it is when it is revealed simply because it is true.”true.”



Here St. Augustine is revealing his belief Here St. Augustine is revealing his belief that the truth is pleasing. Regardless of that the truth is pleasing. Regardless of whether the words themselves were whether the words themselves were eloquent or whether any action is taken, the eloquent or whether any action is taken, the speech is pleasing simply because it is true.speech is pleasing simply because it is true.


““So much care has been lavished on…So much care has been lavished on…suavity by men that writings are read that suavity by men that writings are read that not only should not be put in practice but not only should not be put in practice but rather should be avoided and detested, rather should be avoided and detested, since they contain only completely evil and since they contain only completely evil and wicked things…”wicked things…”



Here St. Augustine speaks of writings that Here St. Augustine speaks of writings that are evil but that are written well. He warns are evil but that are written well. He warns us that though these works may be written us that though these works may be written or spoken well, to be wary of “evil and or spoken well, to be wary of “evil and wicked things”.wicked things”.


"For since by means of the art of rhetoric "For since by means of the art of rhetoric both truth and falsehood are urged, who both truth and falsehood are urged, who would dare to say that truth should stand in would dare to say that truth should stand in the person of its defenders unarmed against the person of its defenders unarmed against lying,.........art?" lying,.........art?"



Authors in their writing include true and Authors in their writing include true and untrue information. The author needs to untrue information. The author needs to know how to defend the truth in rhetoric, know how to defend the truth in rhetoric, because the untrue information is because the untrue information is easily delivered to the reader and the reader easily delivered to the reader and the reader is easily deceived into believing it. The is easily deceived into believing it. The author delivering the truth does not know author delivering the truth does not know how to deceive the reader in the same way. how to deceive the reader in the same way.

Pathos #1 Pathos #1 (Quote)(Quote)

• “However, an attentive crowd eager to comprehend usually shows by its motion whether it understands, and until it signifies comprehension the matter being discussed should be considered and discussed in a variety of ways.”

St. Augustine #25

Pathos #1 Pathos #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

• An audience shows its emotions to the speech in ways other than speaking. Non verbal cues need to be looked for in order to understand how the audience feels towards the rhetor and what is being said.


• “For those things that are well written are not only read with pleasure by those becoming acquainted with them for the first time, but they are also reread not without pleasure by those who know them well…And by both of these classes they are willingly heard.”

St. Augustine #25


• Whether someone is reading or listening, if the work is written or spoken well, the audience will happily read it or listen to it again.


• “And just as he is delighted if you speak sweetly, so is he persuaded if he loves what you promise, fears what you threaten, hates what you condemn, embraces what you condemn, sorrows at what you maintain to be sorrowful; rejoices when you announce something delightful, takes pity on those whom you place before him in speaking as being pitiful…and is moved by whatever else may be done through grand eloquence toward moving the minds of the listeners…”

St. Augustine #27


• An audience can be brought to emotion or even action based on the words of the rhetor if the work is written and delivered in such a persuasive way as to incite strong emotions in the reader or listener.

Style #1 Style #1 (Quote)(Quote)

"For one who wishes to speak wisely, "For one who wishes to speak wisely, therefore, even though he cannot speak therefore, even though he cannot speak eloquently, it is above all necessary to eloquently, it is above all necessary to remember the words of Scripture. the remember the words of Scripture. the poorer he sees himself to be in his poorer he sees himself to be in his own speech, the more he should make own speech, the more he should make use of Scripture so that what he says in use of Scripture so that what he says in his own words he may support with the his own words he may support with the words of Scripture.”words of Scripture.”


Style #1 Style #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

A speaker should remember the A speaker should remember the Scripture since he may want to be Scripture since he may want to be a speaker of great knowledge, but a speaker of great knowledge, but may not have the skills to do this. If may not have the skills to do this. If his skills are not perfect behind, his skills are not perfect behind, then he should use the Scripture then he should use the Scripture even more. even more.


““For there are some things which with For there are some things which with their full implications are not their full implications are not understood or are hardly understood, understood or are hardly understood, no matter how eloquently they are no matter how eloquently they are spoken, or how often, or how plainly. spoken, or how often, or how plainly. And these things should never, or only And these things should never, or only rarely on account of some necessity, rarely on account of some necessity, be set before a popular audience.”be set before a popular audience.”



Some works are so complicated that Some works are so complicated that no matter how you present them, no matter how you present them, they are never fully understood. they are never fully understood. Works such as these should be Works such as these should be avoided unless they must absolutely avoided unless they must absolutely be presented.be presented.


““Therefore a certain eloquent man Therefore a certain eloquent man said, and said truly, that he who is said, and said truly, that he who is eloquent should speak in such a way eloquent should speak in such a way that he teaches, delights, and moves. that he teaches, delights, and moves. Then he added, ‘To teach is a Then he added, ‘To teach is a necessity, to please is a sweetness, necessity, to please is a sweetness, to persuade a victory’”.to persuade a victory’”.



The style that a rhetor uses should The style that a rhetor uses should be an eloquent and pleasing one. If be an eloquent and pleasing one. If the correct words are used, the the correct words are used, the audience will not only enjoy what audience will not only enjoy what they are listening to, but will also be they are listening to, but will also be moved to action.moved to action.

Delivery #1 Delivery #1 (Quote)(Quote)

"But in all their utterances they should first of all "But in all their utterances they should first of all seek to speak so that they may be understood, seek to speak so that they may be understood, speaking in so far as they are able with such speaking in so far as they are able with such clarity that either he who does not understand is clarity that either he who does not understand is very slow or that the difficulty and subtlety lie not very slow or that the difficulty and subtlety lie not in the manner of speaking by in the things which in the manner of speaking by in the things which we wish to explain and show, so that this is the we wish to explain and show, so that this is the reason why we are understood less, or more reason why we are understood less, or more slowly." slowly."


Delivery #1 Delivery #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

The speaker or writer should speak very The speaker or writer should speak very clearly in order to be understood with no clearly in order to be understood with no confusion. The reader may not confusion. The reader may not understand what is being said and if they understand what is being said and if they do not, it is because they can not do not, it is because they can not understand the content. The way in which understand the content. The way in which it is being delivered is not the problem.it is being delivered is not the problem.


““But good teachers have, or should have, But good teachers have, or should have, such a desire to teach that if a word in such a desire to teach that if a word in good Latin is necessarily ambiguous or good Latin is necessarily ambiguous or obscure, the vulgar manner of speech is obscure, the vulgar manner of speech is used so that ambiguity or obscurity may used so that ambiguity or obscurity may be avoided.”be avoided.”



Lavish words and eloquent speaking has Lavish words and eloquent speaking has its place, as does more simple terms. You its place, as does more simple terms. You must know your audience in order to be must know your audience in order to be able to speak to them in a way that they able to speak to them in a way that they can understand.can understand.


““In a conversation anyone may ask questions . In a conversation anyone may ask questions . But where all are silent that one may be heard But where all are silent that one may be heard and all are intent upon him, it is neither and all are intent upon him, it is neither customary nor proper that anyone inquire about customary nor proper that anyone inquire about what he does not understand. For this reason what he does not understand. For this reason the teacher should be especially careful to assist the teacher should be especially careful to assist the silent learner.”the silent learner.”



This quote again relates to understanding This quote again relates to understanding the audiences non-verbal cues. In a the audiences non-verbal cues. In a setting where there is no intercourse with setting where there is no intercourse with the audience, the speaker must deliver his the audience, the speaker must deliver his message in such a way as to promote message in such a way as to promote understanding.understanding.

Logos #1 Logos #1 (Quote)(Quote)

"But if capacity of this kind to learn "But if capacity of this kind to learn eloquence is lacking, the rules of eloquence is lacking, the rules of rhetoric will not be understood, nor rhetoric will not be understood, nor will it help any if they are in some will it help any if they are in some small measure understood after small measure understood after great labor.“great labor.“

St. Augustine #4 St. Augustine #4

Logos #1 Logos #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

If a reader or listener can not If a reader or listener can not understand the vocabulary that is understand the vocabulary that is being said, if they do not have the being said, if they do not have the ability to learn, the content of the ability to learn, the content of the message will not be understood. The message will not be understood. The person may try to understand and person may try to understand and use great effort, but this will not use great effort, but this will not make a difference. make a difference.


““What profits correctness in a speech What profits correctness in a speech which is not followed by the listeners which is not followed by the listeners when there is no reason for speaking when there is no reason for speaking if what is said is not understood by if what is said is not understood by those on whose account we speak?”those on whose account we speak?”



It would make sense that if what you It would make sense that if what you are saying is not understood by your are saying is not understood by your audience, there is no point in saying audience, there is no point in saying it. Logically the rhetor needs to tailor it. Logically the rhetor needs to tailor the speech to accommodate those the speech to accommodate those who will be listening.who will be listening.


““Thus he who speaks when he would Thus he who speaks when he would teach cannot think that he has said teach cannot think that he has said what he wished to say to the person what he wished to say to the person he wishes to teach so long as that he wishes to teach so long as that person does not understand him.”person does not understand him.”



The goal of a teacher is to reveal The goal of a teacher is to reveal something to the audience that they something to the audience that they don’t already know. Therefore, the don’t already know. Therefore, the teacher has not taught unless the teacher has not taught unless the listener has understood what was listener has understood what was being taught.being taught.

Invention #1 Invention #1 (Quote)(Quote)

““For even though he has said something For even though he has said something which he himself understands, he is not which he himself understands, he is not yet to be thought of as having spoken to yet to be thought of as having spoken to the person who does not understand him; the person who does not understand him; on the other hand, if he is understood, he on the other hand, if he is understood, he has spoken, no matter how he has has spoken, no matter how he has spoken.”spoken.”


Invention #1 Invention #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

Knowledge has not been created in the Knowledge has not been created in the listener until the listener understands what listener until the listener understands what is being said. Once the teacher has been is being said. Once the teacher has been understood, the listener has learned understood, the listener has learned something new.something new.


"And I admonish them not to expect such "And I admonish them not to expect such rules from me, not that they have no utility, rules from me, not that they have no utility, but because, if they have any, it should but because, if they have any, it should be.......other." be.......other."



The rhetor is telling we will not learn the The rhetor is telling we will not learn the rules from him, but from others who have rules from him, but from others who have more knowledge. We should look more knowledge. We should look elsewhere for his information. elsewhere for his information.


““And for this reason, he who would both And for this reason, he who would both know and teach should learn everything know and teach should learn everything which should be taught and acquire a skill which should be taught and acquire a skill in speaking…”in speaking…”

St. Augustine #32 St. Augustine #32


A rhetor must be fully knowledgeable in A rhetor must be fully knowledgeable in what he is saying in order to be able to what he is saying in order to be able to pass that knowledge on to the audience. pass that knowledge on to the audience. To this end, the rhetor should learn To this end, the rhetor should learn everything there is to learn on his topic everything there is to learn on his topic before he delivers the speech.before he delivers the speech.

Arrangement #1 Arrangement #1 (Quote)(Quote)

"And I venture to say that all who "And I venture to say that all who understand rightly what they say understand rightly what they say understand at the same time that it understand at the same time that it should not have been said in any should not have been said in any other way." other way."


Arrangement #1 Arrangement #1 (Interpretation)(Interpretation)

The author should believe that if The author should believe that if he understands and believes what he he understands and believes what he said than he can be sure he has done said than he can be sure he has done it the correct way. it the correct way.


““But if they still do not know this, But if they still do not know this, instruction should come before instruction should come before persuasion.”persuasion.”



When presenting a work to an When presenting a work to an audience, you must first make audience, you must first make identify your topic. The audience identify your topic. The audience needs to understand the subject needs to understand the subject before the rhetor will be able to before the rhetor will be able to persuade them to any type of persuade them to any type of emotion or action.emotion or action.


““As soon as it is clear that the As soon as it is clear that the audience has understood, the audience has understood, the discourse should be finished or discourse should be finished or another topic should be taken up.”another topic should be taken up.”



When several topics are to be When several topics are to be discussed, the rhetor should know discussed, the rhetor should know when to move on. Once the when to move on. Once the audience has a grasp on the current audience has a grasp on the current topic, the rhetor should move on to topic, the rhetor should move on to the next issue of discussion.the next issue of discussion.

St. Augustine: On Christian St. Augustine: On Christian DoctrineDoctrine

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St. Augustine: On Christian Doctrine