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SOLUTION:

HEAT TREATING

BAR STOCK

March 17 th 11:06 a.m.

We have a part that must be made from 410 stainless and

then heat treated. Due to concentricity requirements, we

want to use heat treated bar stock. So far I cannot find a heat

treating source to heat treat 12ft bars. Can anyone make a

suggestion for a source?


You didn't mention the details of the heat treat. Could

buying material at condition T solve your problem?

HEAT TREATING BAR STOCK

March 17 th 11:13 a.m. Talk with a mill they have furnaces that can handle 12' bars. Miles any suggestions?


Try Banner Services Corp in Carolstream, IL. They may have what you want. Good luck!


Mark, I don't have big rolodex for stainless processors; -( Dave Did You discuss your job and requirements with Patrick McKenna at PMPA Member Nevada Heat treatment? http://www.californiabrazing.com/userpages/ContactUs.aspx


http://www.californiabrazing.com/userpages/ContactUs.aspx

http://www.californiabrazing.com/userpages/ContactUs.aspx


We have some bar stock heat treated by this group. You

might ask them if they can do it. One thing to consider. All

stock we have heat treated has to be straightened and

centerless ground after processing unless you want to run

pretzels!


I 'm confident that Solar Manufacturing would do a good job

on that for you. Contact: Bob Hill President Solar

Atmospheres of Western PA Phone: 724-982-0660 Extension

2224 FAX: 724-982-0593 Cell: 724-734-9303 email:

<blocked::mailto:rah@xxxxxxxxxxxx> rah@xxxxxxxxxxxx


mailto:rah@xxxxxxxxxxxx


If possible, purchasing heat treated stock would be

preferable in this instance (if you can find it in the

condition/hardness range you need, and with the process

certifications you may require). I recommend Solar

Atmospheres because they can run this length in vacuum

and quench it in nitrogen. They are also good at f ixturing in

order to minimize distortion. If you can cut the bars into 4'

lengths, we'd be happy to run them for you.

March 17 th 11:46 a.m. Thanks this is great!


BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE!


Oh Boy. Everyone is so hopeful. 12 foot bars are very difficult to heat treat in full length. Especially when you need to quench. And the smaller the bar the worse as they begin to look like some cooked spaghetti. There are a number of heat treaters around the US that can handle 12 foot bars - Solar in the Pittsburg area, Bodycote, Fox Valley heat treating in WI, Donovon in the Phila. Area (who can also do vertical heat treating of 12 footers). I am sure they can help and am sure they can try to constrain the bars to the hearth to minimize the bending. If you want to go forward with this endeavor, make sure you use an oversize bar, because you will need to work with a grind shop to straighten and grind the bars so you can machine. Hope this helps. This is not an easy task. One thing I realize in the stainless machining world, is that the typical machinist is not aggressive enough with their setup, and they try to use either too positive or too negative a rake to compensate for the gumminess of the material. Yes, 410 is not one of the easier stainless materials, but there are machining techniques that can reduce your headaches.


March 17 th 1:46 p.m.

I agree Bob that others have furnaces capable of accepting this part size, but I don't think the three others you mention can do it in vacuum (and might not be able to quench it properly/uniformly). As you mention, bar size/diameter is a big factor/concern for several reasons. Like you said, ideally you would want to harden a bar of this length vertically and in vacuum. The only commercial shop that I can think of that is capable of running 12' vertical in vacuum with gas quenching is Bodycote in L.A. Vac-Aero in Canada might be able to as well (they run a bunch of large landing gear hardware)??? More often than not, it is much cheaper/easier to just cut the bars into smaller lengths, run them vertically in vacuum with gas quenching, and discard the drops/ends (not sure if that is the correct term).



Just a comment - Vacuum treating will definitely will

produce a bar without the usual scale, however, since this

material will need to go through a straightener and grind

anyway, I am not sure this is worth the expense of vacuum

treating. 410 does scale, but for the time it will be in a

furnace, not enough to really be concerned about. Treating

is an air atmosphere furnace with a neutral or slightly

reducing atmosphere can accomplish the same thing and a

lower cost. And agree with cutting into smaller lengths. Can

minimize on straightness issues, and ability to increase the

numbers of heat treaters available. But end loss in

machining becomes an issue.



We used to run a job from 416 and bought the material in a

heat treated condition (Rockwell "C" 26-32). We haven't

purchased any of that material in over 2 years, but our

records show that we purchased it from several sources.

They were: EM Jorgenson, Copper and Brass (Thyssen

Krupp), House of Metals, and Ugine (Schmoltz &

Bickenbach). If you haven't tried purchasing the material in

this condition, you might want to try some of the sources I

suggested.


Thanks to all!

HEAT TREATING BARSTOCK

8 HELPFUL comments in first hour!

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Learned of potential heat-treaters

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PMPA LISTSERVE

SOLUTION:

DEBURRING PROBLEM –

HELP!!!!

Febr uar y 17 th 11:14 a.m. All, HELP! We run a small spacer out of .406 dia Copper Tubing on our 6 spindle Index MS25 and have not been completely successful in removing the burrs from the chamfered areas of the part. This is a simple spacer with small (.010max) ID & OD chamfers. We use a pick off to chamfer the back end. The burrs we are seeing are very small hair like burrs that are attached to the chamfer and can sometimes only be seen under a 20X or higher Magnified scope. Our customer will reject any burr that is found due to the cr itical nature of the application. We have tr ied the only vibratory deburring house we know of locally and the parts have been further damaged from the aggressiveness of the media used in the process or from additional handling of the parts. These parts nick easily and the slightest nick is cause for rejection. I was wondering if anyone out there has had success with... * A vibe deburring source that is reputable with taking excellent care of the products they process. * A bench top deburring process of some sort, whether it be Vibe, Magnetic or ??? I will appreciate all suggestions, comments and referrals.

DEBURRING PROBLEM – HELP!!!!

Febr uar y 17 th 11:22 a.m.

Extude Hone - http://www.extrudehone.com/deburring/tem_deburring.html


As you probably know, the best way to eliminate a burr is not to produce it in the first place. Copper is notorious for being "pushed around" by dull cutting tools, so I would check the sharpness of your chamfering tool. You could try a form-type tool that kisses the face of the component a the same time the chamfer is formed, or you could also try a groove-and-chamfer tool just before your part-off to put any burr on the face of the part where it is more easily removed.


http://www.extrudehone.com/deburring/tem_deburring.html

http://www.extrudehone.com/deburring/tem_deburring.html


I don't know if you have an option on alloy of the copper tube, but alloy 122 seems to cut much better than 110 or 102. The latter two alloys dull the tools much quicker which probably causes the burrs.

Febr uar y 17 th – 11:49 a.m.

That sounds l ike an ideal applicat ion for magnetic deburr ing. We used to sell the Pr it ic brand machine, unt i l a cheaper copy came along. The market isn ' t big enough to be bothered waging a patent batt le, so we ended up giving up the l ine. Anyway, here is a good explanation of how the process works –

ht tp://www.pr it ictechno.com/eng/prod/pr it ic/tech.htm I t wil l not remove any heavy at tached burs. I t doesn' t remove mater ial. I t wil l remove small str ings l ike you descr ibe. I t wil l also polish the entire par t and l ightly round of f sharp edges. Copper par ts have to be cleaned before they are put into the machine.

You can buy the imitat ion machine here - ht tp://www.ear thchain.com/ I 'm pretty sure you can send them samples and they will run them through for you.


http://www.pritictechno.com/eng/prod/pritic/tech.htm



http://www.earthchain.com/

Febr uar y 17 th 12:58 p.m. Harperizers work pretty darn good...maybe try

secondary operations in Hamden CT, 203-288-8241


Febr uar y 17 th 1:40 p.m .

Can you "bleed" the tools off at a 5 -10 degree angle from vertical or horizontal after moving past the work piece? In the example below we pulled a burr out of the radius feature and onto the face of the part. By meeting the radius at a tangent of 10 degrees we were able to break the small "hairy type" burr from the exit of the bore. This also allowed for a l i ttle extra tolerance in the OAL without witnessing a step from the boring bar's rapid move away from the work piece. As well, we've found it best to chase material push in one direction and let the cutoff or sub face remove the f inal evidence. Chamfer O.D.'s down towards the face then sweep back and face off . Along with facing upwards away from a burr pulled out of an I .D. If chamfering up towards the O.D. of the part, sweep back and turn the O.D. after chamfering. Little things like this may completely eliminate the burrs. Granted all processes don't yield themselves nicely to this, or it may take re-engineering completely, in which case there may not be enough capital to reinvent. You mentioned a pick off to chamfer the rear of the part, is it a center drill pushing material back into the I.D.? If so does the customer allow for any mismatch in the I.D.? Perhaps a custom step drill would cure the material push and help to evacuate the burrs into the f lutes of the drill rather than into your I.D. I f you'd like to bring a couple parts over I can run them in the magnetic pin de -burring machines. I 'm confident this will provide the desired result you are looking for. You can contact me off line if you like at: kutzr@xxxxxxxxxxx or 262-743-1700


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