PikachuMUs.Compiled and Edited by SheafPikachu iiPikachu iiiPrefaceMy nick in Smashboards is Felth. Im from Chile and I main Pikachu. This documentisjustasummaryofthePikachuMatchupThreadwritteninsmashboards. TheusserUmbreomadeasummaryofthisThreadandIjustIwroteitagainusingadierentcompilator called TEX. The original document can be found here. I created this documentjusttohelpthosewhowanttocontributewiththeSpecicMathupofeachcharacter.Youcanndhyperlinkstosomespeciccharacterinthecorrespondingsectionofthisdocument. IfyouwanttohelpmewiththetranscriptionofthissummaryjustsendmeaninboxinsmashboardstoFelth. IllbywrittingthisatthesametimeasIcreatethecorrespondingMatchupThreadofacertainCharacter.ThankstotheSmashboardscommunityforworkingsohardindevelopingmoreandmoretheoryaboutSmash. ThankstotheusersthatwroteinthePikachuMatchupThreadformakingthisdocumenttobepossibleandthankstotheusserUmbreofororganizingthewholeinformationofthisThread.Contents1 Matchups 21.1 DiddyKong. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21.2 Luigi. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 91.3 Mario. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 221.4 MetaKnight. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 321.5 MiiBrawler. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 351.6 Ness. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 361.7 Rosalina&Luma. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 451.8 Sheik. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 531.9 ZeroSuitSamus. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 591Chapter1Matchups1.1 DiddyKong.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsDiddyKong.BasicInformation.Posts: 336,246,242,241,234,225,146,141,137.Thoroughness: 6.5/10. (someofthepostsareold,though)Matchup: 60:40F.Verdict: Medium,Idthink(ifnot,medium-high). Theresalotofgoodstuhere,butIheardthattheRoy/RyuupdatepatchedDiddyKong. Ifthatsthecase,somereevaluationmaybeinorder(evenifhewasnerfed).ListofPosts.RODO #608NessandLucasareIMOtwoofthehardestmatchupsforPika. Sheik,Diddy,RosaandLuigidontreallybothermenearasmuch.ReedBeefBaron #336Heyguys,IvealwaysplayedmostlyDiddyandShiekbutIhavepocketedPikachusinceBrawl. IthinkPikachumayendupbeingagreatcountertoDiddyKongpost2Matchups DiddyKong 3patchforacoupleofreasonsandIdliketohearwhatyouguysthink. GoingthroughsomeofthesamepointsweweretalkingaboutontheFalcoboards.1. PikachusmobilityisbetterthanDiddyssoDiddywill notbeabletogetawayandget1or2secondstohimselfwheneverhewantstosafelypluckapeelinthismatchup. SincethedamageandKBnerfsDiddyneedstogetincleanlymanymoretimesthanbeforeandthebananaishowhedoesthis. YouneedtobeabletostopDiddyfromsettingupbyeitherpatientlypluckingitbehindhimandimmediatelyjumping,z-catching,andfastfallingbacktotheground,oraggressivelyb-reversepluckingthebananatowardstheopponentfrommidrangeandapproachingwithfair,dashgrab,nair,andemptyhopmixupsasthebananafallsandtraps. IfyoucanstopDiddyfromsettingthisupsuccessfullyenoughhewillnotgetthedamageoutputhenowneeds.Thisisalothardertodeal withthanitsoundsonpaper. Evenif youdefendagainstthebananareallywell,say,byz-catchingitandimmediatelythrowingitawayorbackatDiddy, orquicklyjumpinganddestroyingit, yourestill beingforcedintoasituationwhereyouhavetodosomethingandthegrab/fairmixupisontheway. ItslikehowDededemainsusegordo,itcanbedefendedagainstbut you have to do something, which allows Dedede to come at you the way he wants.ExceptDededesareexplainingwhyGordoisnttrash. Diddysusethisstrategytomakebananasthebestprojectileinthegame. TherearedozensofofwaystoapproachwithbananasinSmash4becausenowwecanrepluckabananaoutofourhandaftertheinitialspawnpluck,inadditiontofourdirectionstothrowandaz-drop. Dierentsetupsrequiredierentdefensemaneuvers. BecausetheDiddyplayerwillknowwhichwayhewillapproachoutofmanysetupsandtheopponenthastoguessorreact,skilledbananaapproachesarethemostfreemixupinthegame. AndDiddygetsalotofrewardforgettingin. SouseyoursuperiormobilitytoeithercatchordestroythebananaonaggressiveplucksyoucanpunishandgetinDiddysfaceonpatientpluckstostopthesemixupsbeforetheycanbesetup.Asfarastakingthebananaawaygoes,airspeedisgoodbutfootspeedtrumpsit. Becauseafoot speedcharacter canjust sprint acrossthegroundasfar asheneedstobeforejumpingandz-catchingthepeel if itsintheair. Addition-Matchups DiddyKong 4allyz-scooping,orz-catchinganitemthatisontheground, isnowathing.Simplyrunningupasclosetoagroundedbananaasyoucanwithouttrippingandjumpingwithanimmediatez-scoopisafast, laglesswaytopickpeelsupotheground. But its goingtobeabadideaif youhaveslower foot speedthanDiddy, becauseagain, Diddysentireplaystylenowrevolvesaroundusingbananastoforcetheopponentintosituationswherehehastheadvantage. Hewilluse grounded bananas as lures and you will get faired if he catches you going for this.CharacterslikeFox,Pikachu,Falcon,SonicandsucharebetterattakingbananasfromDiddyotheaggressivepluckandothegroundforthisreason. SomeonelikeFalcoprobablycannothandlethissituationlikethat. ADiddywhoknowshowtogetthemostoofeverybananaandsetupasmanytimesashecanwillactuallyforceanapproachhimself. Whichhecanalsousetolurepeopleintohits,sowatchthattoo.YoureotheroptionistooverpowerDiddysneutralbyapproachingwhilesimul-taneouslydestroyingthebananasDiddytriestopullouttosetyouup. SomeonelikePikachucandothiswell,destroyingaggressiveb-reversepluckswithjumpingthunderjoltsandfairsonthewayin. Butagain,ifyouretootelegraphedwithhowyoutrytodestroybananastheDiddyKongwillcoveritandyouwillgetfairedorworse.2. PikachuisgoodenoughatdisadvantagetonotgetbodiedtoohardwhenDiddydoesgetincleanly. NairisfastenoughandQAhelpswithlandingandescapesingeneralinalotofways. Youdonthavetoworryaboutgettingcomboedandjuggledfordayslikesomeothercharactersdo. Sothatsgood.3. PikachunowbeatsDiddyintermsofkillpowerandeaseofkillsetups. Sincethepatch, Smash4DiddysAchillesheel isthefactthathehasterriblekill poweroutsideofhardreadsandperfectbananasetups. Hehasreasonablemovesforthisthough,inhisF-smashwhichisnowonlyalittlebitmoreunsafe,andthesecondhitofhisD-smashwhichisactuallyquitepowerful. WithcustomsonrocketbarrelattackisariskyyetbrutalcoinipmixupthatwilldestroypeopleearlyifDiddycanbaitanairdodge,butDiddywillgethitifhemisses.IfyoucanavoidthesethreethingsanddrawstocksoutforasfarasyoucananduseyoursuperiorkillpowertoclosestocksbeforeDiddylandshiskillyouwillhaveamucheasiertime.Matchups DiddyKong 54. Many characters can gimp Diddy fairly easily if he has to charge the barrels becauseheistoolowtorecoverwithmonkeyip,thehardpartisactuallyforcingDiddytorecoverlow.WhatIvebeenpracticingisusingPikachusB-reversethunderjustostagetocreateadisjointedwallwhichwillblockthemonkeyipfromreachingtheledgeandforceDiddytochargethebarrelslowwhereheiseasilygimpedbythunderjoltandquickattack.But even thats hard. Monkey ip is a fast, safe, and confusing recovery since Diddycanwaittoleaphalfwayintothestageandbacktoneutralwherehedominatesforaslongashewants. Coupledwiththefactthatthepeanutcancelmakeshismovementevenmorecrazy,IdontthinkmostcharacterswillbeabletostopthisrecoveryenoughtoputDiddyunderthestagewherehesscrewed. Pikachuhasarealshot,butyoullhavetopracticeandhavereasonablereads.I thought Pikachu may have ended up winning this matchup pre patch if the Pikachumainsreallynaileditdown. PikachuisoneofthefewthatcancanexposebothDiddyspoorrecoveryandthebananasawfuldurabilitywell,andPikachuisalsomoremobile. Postpatchi thinkPikachudenitelywins, atleast65-45, asnowDiddyhastoworksignicantlyharder.IthinkPikachucompletelyewundertheradarandmaybethebestinthegame,bytheway. TherewerenorealchangesforPikachuinthepatchbecausesheishardenoughtoplaycorrectlythatnotmanypeoplewerecomplainingaboutherlikeDiddyorShiek. ImhopingtoseePikachumainsdoingworknow.Isaiah:) #246soiwonderhowthediddypikaMUworksnowconsideringtheonecombothatgetsanearly(andinpikascaseREALLY)earlystockiseasiertoDIoutofandlessofakillcombo.RadioactiveMoth #245UsingT-Joltisagoodtoolforhimsincepopgunisntstrongenoughtostopit,sohecantapproachaswell. Gettinghistoapproachbyaircanberiskythough,sincehisairgameisreallygoodlikeours.Matchups DiddyKong 6M15t3RE #244MakesuretoDIupandawayfromDiddywhenhedoeshisinevitablehoo-hahthrowcombo. AlsobecarefulhowyouapproachbecauseDiddysairgamehassurprisingrangeandspeed.Kenrawr #242Grabs,juggle,DIdthrowproperly(followedbyyoujumping-trynottoairdodge),throwoutrandomqasoverhisgroundedbananasometimes(hethinkshessafe,hehheh)Get him o stage if you can. Try to force him to recover low and run o bair/fair/nairw/e. Idontrecommendthunder. Tooslowandlessguaranteedthanawellplaceaerial.Hoenn #241Howtobeatdiddy: Wait2daysBAM!wewintheMUButseriously,maybeweshouldwaitandseewhathappenswiththebalancepatchbeforewetrysuperhardatthediddymuIthinkweshouldfocusonweirdmidtiermatchupsandstulikethatforthenextdayor2Notsayingweshouldrelyonthepatchthough,Idonotthinkpikavsdiddyishard.Idoreallywellagainstdiddy,IjustcanneverexecutewhatIwanttodoandendupgettinggrabbedforit. Iliterallyamtheonlydiddyplayerinchicago,soeveryonehasdiddypracticeexceptme.MyonlydiddypracticeisJJrocketsandhehasabrotherthatmainspikachu,soIhaveexperiencewithadiddythatknowsthemu,butonlylikeonceevery2weeksforlikeanhour,butatleastitispracticewithatopplayer,nonethelessIsaiah:) #240iliketofollowhisattacksandkeephimunderpressurebutialwayshavetowatchforthatFair. butagooddiddycoulddoanyoneinSoul #239BeatingDiddyisaquestioneveryoneisasking. WeworkhardertoKO.IthinkweallknowbynowwhatDiddydoes. YouDIhisthrowsandyoustillgetrekt. Joltsbeatbananas,buthehasFAir(whichIbelievedestroysJolts). Perhapsthebestwaytobeathimistondanopening. EverycharacterlosestohimsoidkreallyMatchups DiddyKong 7Isaiah:) #236youshouldpracticeQAcancelingthenifyoutimeitright,youropponentwillhavethemostdiculttimeattemptingtograbyou.Pikabunz #235Ineverreallylikedusingthunderasanedgeguard, itstooslow. Ivehadlotsofsuccessusingnairasanedgeguardthough. MybiggestprobleminthematchupisIgetgrabbedalotandIdontknowwhattodowhenhehasabanana.Isaiah:) #234spacehimoutwithtjoltanddontrunheadrstintohim. useQAtoavoidhisgrabsandkeephimunderpressure. bestwaytodothatistjoltgimpsandusingthundertoedgeguardhissideB.honestlyyoucantgettooclosetohimconsideringpikaseasilydies. youcanalsousedowntilttospacehimandthengoforgrabstokeeponledgepressure. around108youwannagoforsafecombosASCLOSETOTHEEDGEASPOSSIBLE.Idrecommend(UPthrow-thunder)or(Dthrow-thunder)dependingonhowwellyouknowhowtousethunder.Radiance #225Iknowthatinoticemyselfdyingwayearlierthaniwanttotothingslikediddyandanyonewithagrab,butthatdoesntmaketheMUbad. Ithinkolimarisstillhardanddiddyaswell,butagainthegameisyoungandimstillgettingbackintoitsoijustseemyselfhavingissueswithdiddyandrobSolidSense #146(Referringtopost#141)Youneedtoplayagroundedgameusingtilts. YoudonttechnicallyapproachDiddy. Youboxhimin. Oncehesind-tiltrange,youcanup-tiltonreactiontorollbehind, QuickAttackonreactiontorollaway, andd-tiltpressurehimifhedoesntmove. Hisf-airwonthityouifyouuseyourd-tiltbecauseyoullbecrouching. Hisownd-tiltisprettygood,soitsnotaneasymatchupinneutral.LumpyGravy #141(Referringtopost#137)Howdoestheneutralworkthen?Ifwerenotpermittedtouseourprojectileoraerialapproaches(Ibelievethelatteriswhatyouwerealludingtoattheendofyourpost)thenourapproachingoptionsarelimitedtoquickattackorhopingwecangetagrab. Doeshereallyshutdownthatmanyofouroptions?Matchups DiddyKong 8SolidSense #137DontshieldMonkeyFlip; youllgetcommand-grabbed. Spotdodgeitinstead, orpivotf-tiltit. Butdontshieldit.If Diddy tries to recover using Monkey Flip you have to hit him out of it with Thunderorn-air,dependingonwhereheis. Forcehimtousehisverticalrecovery.Hisverticalrecoveryisactuallyverygoodaslongashesnotdirectlybelowthelipofthestage. Hecanangleitevenifheistogoaroundyou. Youhavetoaggressivelychasehim. Useyourdoublejump,andrelyonQuickAttacktomakeitbacktothestage. ItsworththeriskoftakingDiddysstockearly.Thunder Jolt is kind of useless in this battle. Diddy can powershield it with a bananainhandandthenyoureintheair,againstDiddyKong,andhehasagreatoutofshieldoption. Youre better o pressuring him with d-tilt. Jab when he gets near you to preventhimfromgrabbing. Donotjustthrowoutspotdodges,thatshowyougetf-smashedanddieearly.z-catchbananapeels. Ifyoudothat, youcantjoltcamphimalittlebitbecauseoneofhisbestoutofshieldoptionsisgone,andyouhaveastrongtooltointerrupthisapproach. Youcanalsosetupthebananapeelontheground,butIdontknowexactlyhowPikachucapitalizesonthatsituation.d-tiltandup-tiltareyourfriendshere. SHf-airgetsyouSHf-airedinreturn.Matchups Luigi 91.2 Luigi.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsLuigi.BasicInformation.Posts: 531,522,509,413,259,224,209(probably),206,205.Thoroughness: 6/10or6.5.Matchup: 55:45F,somewhatdebatable.Verdict: Somewhathigh. Althoughafewpeopledoseemtohavetroublewiththis MU still,they dont seem to have as much trouble against this character as theydoagainstMario.ListofPosts.Thor #613 7/2/2015ForLuigi,unlesssomeonecanshowtestsotherwise,well-spacedfairanduairbeathiscombo-breakingnair.hell-dew #612 6/30/2015luigiisadothedamageandresetittoneutralkindacharyourcombogamegetsheavilyneuteredandhisreballisSUPERdumbintheneutral(PSorelsehavefun)itis+onblockwhichisprettysillyandhisdashgrabcaneasilypunishatonofouroptionsmeaningifhesheildshecanactuallymessusupprettyhard. hisgrabrangeisalsoliterallyjustbetterthenoursmeaninghecanoutspaceusforgrabsiftheluigihasanyreactiontimeandhisdashgrabisnuts.Yourforcedtogimphimandgimphimhard. IthinkDairbeatsnado(althoughitstoughashecktotimeiftheluigiisntamoronduetodairbeingsluggishonstartup)andNairdestroyshisSideBrecovery(hithimattheendofit)BEWAREOFMISFIREivehadmisrestradewiththethunder2hitboxbefore(whichitimedprettynicely)andittradedresultinginmydeathwhichisdumb. ihaventfoundawaytointercepthisupByetthough(needtotestmore)honestlyourlackofabilitytosafelyapplyshieldpressureandluigisabilitytopunishOOSmakesthisMUreallyreallydumbivehonestlytestedatonofthingsandhaventMatchups Luigi 10hadmuchsuccesshisNairmakescomboinghardhisBairkillshisgrabcankillandhecanalsokillyouafteragrabfollowupwithBairandnado.neverairdodgeagrabeveryouwillgetUpBediftheluigiisntbad. TBHindicanghthimtosomeextentintheneutralbuthenotonlyoutdamagesusbuthehasoptionsthatcovermultipleoptionsofoursandrewardhimheavilyalsohecankillusstupidlyeasilywhereaswehaveastupidhardtimekillinghimneverquickattackoutofneutralawholelotvshimcausehecanpunishitprettyeasily if he reacts with nair and understand if he doesnt powershield it will actually sendhimbackprettyhardintermsoftheslideeecthehasandhonestlycampinghimwithjoltsdoesntworknicelyagainsthiminmyexperience.PrinceofPeace #611 6/29/2015YoucanDIbackwardsintoluigibutyoucanstillgethitwithfairandbairandokIamveryaggresivewithpikathatexplainswhySoul. #610 6/29/2015Luigiisatough***MU,honestly. Grabsfordays. Ihonestlyfeelwerebetterousingsomeoneelse. Actuallyno,maybeImjustbeingpessimistic. Hismobilitysucksatleast,soperhapscampingwithJoltshelps. Dontgetgrabbedisthenorm. Speakingofwhich,isthereanywaytoDIthedownthrowforlesscombos?Ivebeenwonderingthisforalongtimenow.PrinceofPeace #609 6/29/2015The worse match ups I have with Mr.GW,Pikachu is against another pikachu does anyonehaveanyadviceforthat?AlsoIwhowinsthesematchupsMariovsPikachuandPikachvs luigiandPikachuvs NessI personally hateghting luigiwithPikachuanddontknowthematchupRODO #608 6/27/2015NessandLucasareIMOtwoofthehardestmatchupsforPika. Sheik,Diddy,RosaandLuigidontreallybothermenearasmuch.Jmacz #590 6/20/2015What are the general thoughts on the Luigi MU? I really struggle playing my friends Luigiwith Pikachu, probably win 1/10 games even though I feel as if he is my best character. IdonthavenearlyasmuchproblemsbeatinghimwithcustomKirby,Greninja,andpostpatchCharizard. Ispecicallyhaveproblemswithhimontheground,hisnaircanbepeskywhenbreakingcombosbutIvegottenalotbetteratknowingwhenitscoming.Matchups Luigi 11ButonthegroundIjustreallystrugglewithpunishinghim. HisF-smashcomesoutsofastIhaveallbutgivenuphopeonthat,buthisdashattackiswhatreallyannoysme.Heisreallypredictablewithit,andespeciallywithKirbyIhavegottenreallygoodatbaitingitout,hoppingoverhimandbairinghimforakilloratleast. WithPikachuthebestIcanseemtodoisnairorbairhimwhichjustbarleysendshimostage. Itsreallyhardtofollowuponthoseforwhateverreason,andusuallyjustabletograbtheledgebeforeIcanevendoanything.AmIjustbadatPikachu,oramIbetterojustusingoneofmyothercharactersagainstLuigis?Soul #531 6/3/2015Luigi ontheotherhand.... Eh, mightaswell wastetimeusingapocketSheikorsomethingnah just kidding. We certainly can hold our own in the MU; its just his abilitytoKOsoearlythatisannoying. IvesaidIdonthavemuchexperienceontheMUsoIcantsayalot.Isaiah:) #530 6/3/2015p.s. nomatterwhatpikachumainssay,thematchupisclosetoevenwithluigislightlybeinginhisfavordependingonthestage. justtakehimtolylatthoughialwaysdothatwheniwannagetstudonelolSoul #528 6/2/2015In what ways does Luigibeat us?Ive been hearing that he beats Pikachu latelyI haventplayedtheMUmuch,soIdliketoknowmore.Thor #523 6/1/2015MaybeImjustcrazybutIswearIveoutspacedLuiginairwithPikachufair... IthoughtyoucouldgohamwithfairchainsIFyouweretryingtojusttipLuigiwiththefair,butI havent played against many Luigis and I dont have someone to practice with regularlysoImightjusthavebeenseeingthings.Equi #522 6/1/2015IactuallyhaveimprovedattheLuigimatchupsinceItrainwithafriendwhomainsLuigi/Sheik. Itsmostlyjustaboutpatience... pickingyourgrabspots... spacingwithdtiltandretreatfair... notgettingtoocombohappysincehecanbreakyourcomboinstantlywithnairs. Itsafadeinanoutsortofmatch. Andofcoursegimpingthehelloutofhim. Marioissomewhatsimilar. BotharewinnableMUs. IndthatIuseQAactuallymoresparinglyagainstLuigi(notsureifthisiscorrect)sincehisnairjustlastsMatchups Luigi 12solongandIhavehadmyQAinterceptedunintentionallybytheLuigi playermoretimesthanIcancount.Isaiah:) #521 6/1/2015Luigiisprobablythemostdicultbecauseheisanawkwardcharacter,howeverQAintograbscancatchhim,justdontgoallinandtryforgimpsonhim,heiseasilygimpedRideae #509 5/26/2015OnematchupImnottosureabouttheoddsbutIpersonallyreallydislikeisLuigi. IdontknowifthereisasectionhereaboutthatmusoImgoingtotalkaboutitalittlebit. Idontknowalotaboutit,ImjustsharingwhatIknow.ThemainthingyouhavetodowhenplayingagainstLuigi(atleastinmycase)isrespecthisdownb. Ithastoomuchprioritytochallengeintheair. Youmightaswelljustwaitforittobeoverandpunishtheendlag. ThatsmymainproblemwhenfacingaLuigi.Anotherthingis;dontgorushinginwithquickattacksasmuchasyounormallywould. DontapproachawholelotwithquickattackonLuigibecauseofhisnair(anddownb)andyoucantreallycomboquickattackintootherthingssuchasnairorupairbecauseatmostpercentsyoulljustgetanairtotheface. Sometimesittradesbutitsnotworthitinmyopinion.Andanotherthingisyoucantreallybreakoutof Luigisaircomboswithnair,especially from his dthrow combos. Theyre just too fast. Maybe every now and then butmostofthetimeyoullbeunableto. ThatsaboutalltheconsIknowofthematchupsofar,sonowIlltalkaboutsomeofthepros.ProbablythebestthinggoingforPikachuinthismatchupisthefactthatyoucanheavilyexploitLuigisrecovery. AsimplebairorawelltimeddownbwillgimpLuigimostofthetime. Evenathunderjoltgimpwillwork. Justbecarefulwhenheusesthedownbbecausesometimesitcanstagespikeyouifyougothatdeeptogimphim.InmyopinionPikamighthaveaslightadvantagewheninneutral, evenwithouttheoptionofapproachingwithquickattacksometimes. Thereasonforthatisbecausethunderjoltstravelfartherthanthereballs. IfyoucanspacethemcorrectlythenLuigiwillstillhavetoapproachyou. Idontthinkeitherhasanoticeableadvantagebetweentheirairialsinneutral.Matchups Luigi 13IwilladdtothispostwheneverIndoutmorehelpfulinformationabouttheLuigimatchup. I aminno way stating this as fact whenplaying against Luigi,Imjust statingthisoofpersonalexperience,soIamsorryifsomeofthisisincorrect.Hell-dew #482 5/19/2015NowmyquestionisWTFdowedointheluigiMUifeellikeostageweshouldhaveourchangebutidunnohowtodealwithhimyet[FBC]ESAM #414 5/2/2015SoSkullbashhelpsuslivelonger?Pikabunz #413 5/2/2015Survivalpercentswitheachmove: LuigiBthrow-TrainingModeDIonly-121%Dair-121%Uair-120%Fair-118%Nair-118%AirDodge-116%Bair-114%SideB-112%*LuigisbthrowhasPikachufacingthestageafterbeingthrownsoitsbesttojustDI.Usinganymovewilljustkillyouearlier.[FBC]ESAM #271 4/16/2015Justdoitfaster. Noticewhenhewillgetoutandthenjustbaithimtonairandlikeregrabhimorsomething.Kenrawr #267Andinregardstocomboingluigi: howexactly?Ialwaysgetnaired. Aremycombosjustnottightenough?Matchups Luigi 14[FBC]ESAM #259 4/16/2015*cracksngers*SoImatalkabouttheclosestonesrst. WillbeeditingasigoLuigiQuickSynopsis:Bothcombothehelloutofeachother. Luigikillsbetteronstage,Pikachuedgegaurdsreallyeasily. PikachucanplayVERYevasiveandavoidluigifairlyeasily. LuigicannotpunishgoodQAs. Carefulapproacheshelpalotbecauseofluigisnotraction. PikacontrolstheentirepaceofthegameGround-Ground: PikachuDEFINITELYwins this part of the MU. LuigiNEEDStopowershieldtogetin, whereaswecanjustkinda...dowhatwewant. IfLuigiisonthegroundjustdtiltbecausehewillslidebackandnotbeabletopunish.AnyhitimmediatelycausespressureduetoluigiNOTwantingtogoostagevsPikachu.Also,d-tilttripcombosintoQAwhichleadstoeverythingelse. Luigisgrabgameisscary,butaslongasyoucontrolspacecorrectlyyoushouldbene.Ground-Air:Mostrisingaerialswillhitluigi,suchasrisingfairorinstantdair.Both of these lead into long long combos and luigi typically has to have aggressive groundmovespacinginordertohityoulikef-tiltorutilt. However,thisisREALLYbadintheground-groundgamesoifyoufrustratethemwiththatitllbehardforthemtohityou.Intermsofluigiintheair,antiairup-angledf-tiltisamazingvsluigi. Itmighttradewith nair, but he will probably not be able to combo out of this regardless. Luigi is goingtowanttoSHALOTinthisMUtoovercomeourgroundgamesowewillhavealotofopportunitytoanti-airhimperiod. Also,ifyouexpectacommittoalandingaerial,youcanpivotbackwardsF-smash(ORHSBwithcustomson)togetbigpunishesandlandkills.Air-Air:-Pikachureallywantstobeunderluigiifintheairbecauseitisreallyeasytobaitoutnairsandairdodges. BeinganywhereelseandpikaessentiallyjustwantstogetbacktothegroundbecauseIFYOUCOULDNTTELLBEINGONTHEGROUNDISAMAZINGINTHISMATCHUPOStage:lelelelelelelelelelelele. Forcehimlowwithjustyourpresenceandtheygetscared. Iftheyarealreadylow,t-joltandrunofair/bair. HecantreallyedgeguardMatchups Luigi 15youbecauseQA2gud. ALsoifyougetthebairFFmultihitspikewhenhedoesnthaveajumphediesregardless. yaaaayKilling:Luigi obviouslyhasmoregeneral killpotential, butitisprettyeasytopushluigiothestage. Also,pikaforcescharacterstoairdodgeorthrowoutmovesdefensivelysoitsprettyeasytoF-smash/U-smashthat.BudgetPlayerCadet #258 4/16/2015Iwasgonnasay,Wait,Luigiinourfavor? Whatshesmoking?ThenIsawthepostbitandwaslike,...Oh. Hangon....Seriously though. Luigi. Cmon. He kills us for free and can wall us really eectively.Whatdoyoudointhismatchup,man?Hoenn #257 4/16/2015Mariovspika?55:45?pikachusfavor?ESAMareyousure?Ifso?pleasehelp! Icannotstandthatmatchup....I think luigi beats pikachu though but even if that is the case. we still have a ridiculousmatchupspreadHoenn #224 4/7/2015@KenrawrIendedupnothavingaridetothoseeventsbutIplayedagainstthebestluigimainsinmystateonlinewithasmoothconnection. IguredthatyoushouldJoltatlongrangeandreadthewayluigireballs. Ifluigidashesatyouwiththereballs,justfairhim. Fairwillbeatthroughthereballandluigiwillnotbeabletoshieldduetobeingstuckinhisinitialdash. Donotdothisatkill%though,thatgivesluigiafreeUsmashifhereadsit,andobviouslyholdingontoyourstockisextremelyimportantinanymatchupwereyougetpunishedsuperhard. ItriedzoningwithUtiltanditworkedforthemostpartagainsttheleastskilledluigithatIplayed, butIhavenoideaifitwould work well against boss. (Front hit Utilt btw) Fair through reballs is almost alwaysourbestoptionsincewedonothaveanyoptionsfastenoughtopunishoutofperfectshield. WhileIdidsaythatFairwasamazingfordealingwithreballsbutisriskyatkillpercent,IdidnotgetpunishedforitatallwhenIretreatedit. Luigihastoreadwhatyouaredoingoutofyourretreatingfairandbecausefairhasahitbox,fairdoesnotallowluigitocreatethesamesupersafepressurethathecreateswhenyouperfectshieldit. Afterretreatingfairyoumightbeabletodtiltbeforehecangetthegrab. (IMatchups Luigi 16didnotthinkofthisthough,Iliterallyjustwalkedawayandmadeluigiwithedashgrab,butthenhestartedreadingthat,butweneedmixups)WhenIsayretreatingfair,Iamnotmeaningthatyouhavetoretreatrightaway. IfounditaloteasiertostartretreatingafterIbeatthereball. Anyway,sorryifthiswasnotsuperhelpfulandIwishIcouldhavegonetotheoineevent,buttheconnectionwasgoodandIatleastguredsomethingoutHoenn #211 4/3/2015YeahtheorycraftingissomethingIamgoodat, butitisnotforeveryoneIhopetohelpoutwiththismatchupsincemostluigiplayersthatIhaveplayedwithsayIplayitreallywellandsinceihaveatonofluigimainstoplaywith. Ifeellikeifwehaveaneasyanswertoreballsandjustafewmoresafeoptionsinneutralvsluigi,thenthismatchupwillswinginourfavorIMOIwilltrytolaboutwithmatchupandIwilltalkwiththeluigimainsaboutitIdofeelyourstrugglethough. Itiskindahardtodealwithcharacterswithdeadlypunishesfromgrabinthisgame,theneutralgameissupercomplexinthosematchups,butwhenyouaskforadvicepeopletellyouDontgetgrabbed.... obviously!!! Buttheydontunderstandtheoptionstoavoidgrabs.Anyways,thankyou,IwilldomybestKenrawr #210 4/3/2015(RespondingtoHoenn209)ImnottoosureaboutthatUairidea. ThatjustkindofseemsdesperateatthatpointIwishIhadananswermyselfbutImgarbageattheory-craftinghaha. Iwaskindofhopingyallwouldalreadyhaveananswer.Makesureyougetsomejuiceyinfoatthattournamentandgoodluck!Hoenn2094/3/2015(RespondingtoKenrawr 208) YeahI dont knowif it gotuploaded... Everyothersetfromthattourneyisonthepagethough... sorryButIseewhatyouaresaying,maybeifweuseFsmashatall,weneedtondalotofotherreliableoptionsrsttomakeithardertoanticipate. OrWecouldjustusethoseoptionsinstead.LuigialsodoesnothavenearlyasstrongofaerialpunishesOosduetolackofrangeandairspeed,sodoyouthinkthatusingfullhopaerialslikeFHUairwouldbegoodforzoninghimout?Hehasalotoftroublepunishingthat,butitkindaputsusinanMatchups Luigi 17awkwardsituation. Idonotknowifluigihastheabilitytocapitalizeonusbeingintheairthough. MaybeevenusingSHUairwouldbebetter,sincewecanalwaysjustjumpawayorquickattackifhetriestorunatustopunishtheUair... thatmightbebetterAlsoIdonotbelievethatpikachucanplaythecatandmousegameagainstluigiaswellasothercharacters. Onceweareinthecorner,hecanjustrununderourjolts. Sowhenwearecorneredhecanjustreballfreely. Dowehaveanyeasywaysofdealingwithreballs?(I probably will be able to play like 4 tournament sets with very high level luigi mainsbeforethenextxanadu,soIcanprobablytestoutanythingdiscussedhere)Kenrawr #208 4/3/2015(RespondingtoHoenn207)Doyouthinkitispossibleforluigitoreacttofsmashwhilebeingpreparedfortheotheroptionsinneutral?IthinkLuigiisgoingtobeshieldingregardless. Hewantsthemgrabs. Ifitsapowershield-youreboned. Ifitsnot...heslidesointoneutralagain. IguessitskindofawinforPikachuifheslidesneartheedgeofthestage. IwouldthinkthatyouwouldonlybeabletoreacttofsmashwithapowershieldifthefsmashwasanticipatedWellifyouuseitasoneofyourmaintoolsinthismatch-upthenIdontseewhytheywouldntbeanticipatingit. Asanexampleofhowharditisforluigitopunishfsmashwithoutpowershield,InmysetvsGreenbeast,weplayedonOmegawindyhillzone,wherethegrassimproveshistraction... hestillhadissuespunishingitIdoseewhatyouaresayingthoughCanyoulinkmetothevideoplease?Imhavingtroublendingit. Iamnoexpertonneutralvscharacterslikeluigi,butwhateverwecomeupwith,itshouldbesomethingmanipulatingthetractionproblems luigi has. I guess the lack of traction kind of does help the cat and mouse gamethatPikachuhastoplay.Hoenn #207 4/3/2015Doyouthinkitispossibleforluigitoreacttofsmashwhilebeingpreparedfortheotheroptionsinneutral?IwouldthinkthatyouwouldonlybeabletoreacttofsmashwithapowershieldifthefsmashwasanticipatedAsanexampleofhowharditisforluigitopunishfsmashwithoutpowershield,InmysetvsGreenbeast,weplayedonOmegawindyhillzone,wherethegrassimproveshistraction... hestillhadissuespunishingitIdoseewhatyouaresayingthoughIamnoexpertonneutralvscharacterslikeluigi,butwhateverwecomeupwith,itshouldbesomethingmanipulatingthetractionproblemsluigihas.Matchups Luigi 18Kenrawr #206 4/3/2015(RespondingtoHoenn#202) fsmashisverygoodagainstluigi sincehecannotpunishitifitisspacedproperlyIkeephearingthisbutImnotexactlyconvinced! Itssafebuthaveyouguystestedittobeabsolutelysure?Doyouhavetobeperfectwithit?Alsowhatiftheotherguyhasthereactiontimetopowershield?Itsnotespeciallyhardto. ItsnotthatgreatagainstLuigiimo. Againstluigiitisextremelyimportanttoresettoneutralifthereisanydoubtthatyouareoverextending. Justthrowoutsomejolts,spacefair,forwardsmashalot. YoualreadyknowhowIfeelaboutfsmash.Spacingfairsoftenleadsmetotaking10%+totheir1%. WhenIdogetafaironemitusuallydoesntleadintoanythingbecausegoddamnihateluigisomuch. Alsoifluigitriespunishingthingsoutofsheildordashesatyou,itisnormallynotagoodideatopickdefensiveoptionslikeshielding/rolling/spotdodging. Justdowntilt,hemaytrytorollbehindyouandgrabyou,butthatwillnotsecureapunishforyou,hethenhastoreadyouagain. Sodtiltgiveshimahardtimeanditgivesusagoodopeningifithits. ItisaverygoodzonebreakerinthismuAgreedWhenedgeguardingluigi,justreacttowhathedoesandstayontheledge. IfyoutrytoBairluigisupB,itisverysmarttonotthrowitoutrightaway. FalltowardshimalittlebitbeforeheUpBsbecausemostluigimainsliketorecoversuperlowandwillwaitoutyourbairifyouthrowitouttooearly.IdothisagainstLuigisthatarentBoss. Bosssdownbmashingiscrazysoitgiveshimalittlebitofamix-upoptioninthathecansavehisjump. themorepatientyouplay,themoreluigistruggles. Oh,denitely. Imjustneversurewhattodointheneutralgame. Hisoptionsoutofshieldaredevastating.(NowrespondingtoHell-Dew) also luigi IMO is our worse matchup his defensiveoptionsareinsanemixedwithhisgrabpunishesandreballapprochesyouhaveasupertoughcharacter. alsoDtiltisntsafeonpowersheildandiftheluigicanpowersheildwellthisisbecomesamiserableMU.Idontwanttocallitourworstmatch-upyetsincewehaventhadanyrealtoplevelPikachusghtanytoplevelLuigis. ButitsdefmytoughestMU.UpByoucantradewithFairorBairitkillshimwiththespike. GodBless do not quick attack against luigi and do not Bair his shield either. the low hurtboxof Bair is an easy punish for him and QA is a free upsmash for him if the luigi is remotelygoodialsothinkhisNairjustbeatsitQAhardto. HewillpunisheverythinghardwithgrabsdontlethimgrabyouhecangrabDtilts(iwasmessingwiththespacingonthisimprettysureitsnotsafe)FtiltFsmashDsmashuptiltJabanddair. evenfairhecangrabfor for so yeah just understandhis grabcombo does aninsane amount of damage sobewaryofgoinginandtryingtoghthiminCQCalsohisjabsframedataisdumbhecanjabtograbandusejabtobreakourCQCgame/jabusonreactionifweattempttoMatchups Luigi 19grabhim. EhIwouldntsayDONTQAagainsthim. Itsagoodmix-upeverynowandthenagainstanyone. ItswhatyoudoaftertheQAthatyouneedtolookoutfor. Ifyoupop him up with the second part dont go in too eager to get a follow-up. Youll probablygethit. Baitetc. Iagreew/mostoftheotherstu. IthinkDtiltisadecentoptionifyoudontoveruseit. ItcanleadintostuanditsoneofthetoughermovesforLuigitogetpast. NairforyourlifeoutofhisgrabIpreferthunders. Faster,moreunpredictable,safer. Onlythingthatsannoyingisifhescomboingyouhorizontallyandoutrunsthethunderswhilemovingyoualongwithhim. Justmakesuretostopspammingtheinputassoonasyoufeelabaitcoming. andcampthecrapoutofhimtrytopushhimostageandgimphimandabusehismehplatformgame. andyeahheifgrabsyouDONOTAIRDODGE(youdieifyoudo)andbeverycarefulrolling/spotdodgingingeneralcauseUpBissomethingyoushouldbeawareofandifyougettheleadcampifyourdownneverforcethekill onhimyouwill getbodied. outsideofthatspaceyourselfinsanelywellandmixupyourapproacheslikecrazyandunderstandhisgrab=deathathigh%s. Haha,yup. Prettymuch.Hell-dew #205 4/3/2015alsoluigiIMOisourworsematchuphisdefensiveoptionsareinsanemixedwithhisgrabpunishesandreballapprochesyouhaveasupertoughcharacter. alsoDtiltisntsafeonpowersheildandiftheluigicanpowersheildwellthisisbecomesamiserableMU.hemurdersusintheCQChesabittoughtocombo(spaceyourupairsreallynicelyforhimorelseyougetNaired)hisrecoveryisreallytheonlyreasonwhywecandoadamnthingtohiminthatMUotherwiseiwouldsayitwouldbeaeasy-2forusbutbecausehisrecoveryisgimpable(althoughsuperfreakingrisky/hardattimes)iwouldsayitsa-1.Ostagedonotthunderhimbythunderinginfrontofhimhecanmisreyouforfreeandifheluiginadosyouyougetspikedwithaninsaneamountofhitstunwhichcanveryeasilygimpus(itsoundsstupidtoeventypethiswithhowdumbthatmoveis). hisrecoveryworksin3ways:hehasSideBwhichhasaTONoflagattheendandonlyreallycovershorizontal.UpBwhichisstraightupwards. andDownBwhichif theluigi canmashhecangoanywhere.UpByoucantradewithFairorBairitkillshimwiththespike.SideByoucandowhateveryouwanttohimitseasytopunishdownBishardashell todeal with. ifyoudivehimhesgonnanadoyoui haventbeenabletotesttheMatchups Luigi 20spacingoutonthismovesbutitdoesntseamlikeBairwinsatallandithinkFaircantradewhileidunnoaboutNairNotethismovedoesspikeifididntmakethisclearsobeawareofwhenyouchosetotradewithit.donotquickattackagainstluigianddonotBairhisshieldeither. thelowhurtboxofBairisaneasypunishforhimandQAisafreeupsmashforhimiftheluigiisremotelygoodialsothinkhisNairjustbeatsitQAhardto. HewillpunisheverythinghardwithgrabsdontlethimgrabyouhecangrabDtilts(iwasmessingwiththespacingonthisimprettysureitsnotsafe)FtiltFsmashDsmashuptiltJabanddair. evenfairhecangrabforforsoyeahjustunderstandhisgrabcombodoesaninsaneamountofdamagesobewaryofgoinginandtryingtoghthiminCQCalsohisjabsframedataisdumbhecanjabtograbandusejabtobreakourCQCgame/jabusonreactionifweattempttograbhim.Nairforyourlifeoutofhisgrabandcampthecrapoutofhimtrytopushhimostageandgimphimandabusehismehplatformgame. andyeahheifgrabsyouDONOTAIRDODGE(youdieifyoudo)andbeverycarefulrolling/spotdodgingingeneralcauseUpBissomethingyoushouldbeawareofandifyougettheleadcampifyourdownneverforcethekill onhimyouwill getbodied. outsideofthatspaceyourselfinsanelywellandmixupyourapproacheslikecrazyandunderstandhisgrab=deathathigh%s.Hoenn #202 4/2/2015(inresponsetoKenrawr201)MKhasaneasytimezoningusoutandcangeteasykillsonuswithUpBIdidsometestingwith@PikabunzandhewasnotabletoconnecttheUpBatall,sothatmaybewhyhehasamaybenexttometaknightI might have some videos of pikachu vs luigi from my chicago weekly Youtube.com/events2competefsmashisverygoodagainstluigisincehecannotpunishitifitisspacedproperlyanditbeatsthroughhisreballsAgainstluigiitisextremelyimportanttoresettoneutralifthereisanydoubtthatyouareoverextending. Justthrowoutsomejolts,spacefair,forwardsmashalot. Alsoifluigitriespunishingthingsoutofsheildordashesatyou,itisnormallynotagoodideatopickdefensiveoptionslikeshielding/rolling/spotdodging.Justdowntilt,hemaytrytorollbehindyouandgrabyou,butthatwillnotsecureapunishforyou, hethenhastoreadyouagain. Sodtiltgiveshimahardtimeanditgivesusagoodopeningifithits. ItisaverygoodzonebreakerinthismuWhenedgeguardingluigi,justreacttowhathedoesandstayontheledge. IfyoutrytoBairluigisupB,itisverysmarttonotthrowitoutrightaway. FalltowardshimalittlebitbeforeMatchups Luigi 21heUpBsbecausemostluigimainsliketorecoversuperlowandwillwaitoutyourbairifyouthrowitouttooearly.Iamnoproatthematchup,butIdoknowaluigimainthatplaysabitofpikachuthathasbeentryingtocoachmeinthematchupandhesaysthatthemorepatientyouplay,themoreluigistruggles.Kenrawr #201 4/1/2015WhyMK?IhavetroublewithLuigis. IsawDojoalsolosttoaLuigiawhileagowhileIwaslookingforvidsonthematchup.SolidSense #126 2/14/2015PikachucanwallLuigioutandforcehimtoapproachbecauseofThunderjolt,soIdsaythatyes,hehasaslightadvantageintheMU.M15t3RE #123 2/14/2015LuigiisapainbutIhavenogoodexperienceagainstone. WhatIcandetermineisthathehasastrongerSHaerialgamethanPikachusbutnotgroundgameifyoudontrunintohisjabs. Hisoatinessmakeshimhardtojugglebutatleastheisverygimpableo-stage. I*believe*thisallappliestoMarioaswell.Matchups Mario 221.3 Mario.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsMario.BasicInformation.Posts: 522,508,488,485,483,478,475,474,375,299,189?,81.Thoroughness: 5/10(alotofsmalltidbitsofinfo, butnothingrealhugelikepost561or524Idontthink)matchup: 55:45F,butalmosteveryoneelseseemstothinkitsevenorinMariosfavor.Verdict: Highpriority. Weshouldbreakdownandanalyzethismatchupprettysoon.ListofPosts.Equi #522 6/1/2015(saystheMariomatchupissimilartotheluigimatchupheanalyzedinthisverysamepost)Isaiah #521 6/1/2015formarioyouhavetoplayamorehitandrunstrat. seehiscombogameisstrongsohewillattemptgrabsetupsonyou,justavoidgettingbaitedwiththecapeandtryQAmixupswithDtilt-grabsaswell.Equi #520 6/1/2015I see. I seem to do well in other MUs but denitely struggle with this one and Luigi/Marioonline.InthesematchupsItrytospacewithdtiltmore. Lagmighthavesomethingtodowithit.OHobbit #511 5/26/2015BairisgreatforedguardingDDDandMario. IfyoumanagetotradeyourbairwithMarios up-b youll mini-spike him,which will kill him. As for DDD, sometimes multi-hitmovesareabletobeathisarmor,soyoushouldtrythisorrespecthisrecoverandthenpunish.Matchups Mario 23Rideae #510 5/26/2015AndforMario? Imactuallynottoosure. IthinkifyoujustgoostageandnairittradeswiththeupbbutImnotcompletelysureaboutthat.Hell-dew #508 5/26/2015againwithmariojustuseNairyoucanintercepthisUpBwithNairThor #492 5/20/2015IadmittedlyamnotverygoodatPika-Marioeither,butworkingonit,andwillapplyyouradvice. ItsliketheonlyMUwhereIreallyunderstandwhenIshouldactuallybedtilting[thatandmaybevsSheik].Hoenn #491 5/20/2015ESAMdoyouhaveanyexamplesoftheMUthaticouldwatch? IthinkIamunder-standingwhatyoumeantoanextentSoIshouldjustdtiltandplayabitpatientandwaitforhimtodothingswhenIamatkillpercent? ShieldifIamtooscared,androllawayseemslikeitwouldbegood?Right?Iknowyoumentionedretreatingfairanddairbeinggoodforthismu, butIamassumingthatisnotsmarttouseatkillpercent?[FBC]ESAM #490 5/20/2015Justdontjumpintoit.Hoenn #489 5/20/2015Ijustendupnotbeingabletoholdontomystock. Idonotknowhowtoengagemariowithoutgettingusmashed....[FBC]ESAM #488 5/19/2015CastleSiegeisntevenaremotelybannablestagethehell?ImeanPikaisgoodagainstMarioonallstagesprettymuch,IjustdontlikeBF.Everywhereelseisprettygood. Ifyouarelosingbecauseheisoutplayingyouthatismorethanjustthestages.[FBC]ESAM #485 5/19/2015(inresponsetoHoennaskingwhatstageshouldbepickedagainstMarioasidefromSVandFD)saysduckhuntinpostDuckhuntisgood,castlesiegeprobablyisaswell.Matchups Mario 24[FBC]ESAM #483 5/19/2015IactuallydontlikeBFinthatMUforoncesinceyouwanttobeabletothreatenwiththunderoutofcombos. IwouldprobablygotoDuckhuntHell-dew #482 5/19/2015Dairisntsafeonshieldalsothankgodesamsbackiwaskindasadtosaythatthebestpikaouttheremighthavebeennakat... *cringe*AhemmovingonDairisntsafeonshieldbutitworksinsanelynicelyagainstalotofmarioshitboxesDtilt actaully boxes him out really nicely to also you have zero buisness using randy QAsoutofneutralmariocanpunishthatcrapforfreeandourcombogameiswaybetterthenhiswecanalsobreakoutofhiscomboswithNairFootstoolsandThundercancelsprettyhard.alsoyoucanclashhisupBwithNairwhichmakesdealingwithhimostagealoteasierHoenn #480 5/19/2015isaythatwehavetoplaymariosgamebecausemostpeoplebeatmariobyzoninghimout. pikachucannotdothat. Ifyoutrytocampmario,hejustgetsstagecontrol,youendupinthecorner,andhegetskillsetupsandlotsofdamageonyou.ialsothinkmariogetsmoreoutofhishitsthanwedo,unlessiamdoingsomethingwrong. IjugglehimwithuairandtrytobaitouthisnaironceIknowthecomboisgoingtoend,butsincewecannottakemariotoastagewithoutplatforms,hegetsawayfreeeventually(andwithoutgettinghittoohard).ESAMwheredoyouthinkweshouldtakemarioanyway?(themariomainsinmyregionALLbanFDandsmashville)[FBC]ESAM #478 5/19/2015Since when do we have to play Marios game?Also...what is marios game?Grab combosarejustaspotentforPikachuastheyareforMario. PikachucanalsooutspaceMariotypicallywithD-tiltandretreatingfairsarekindagdlk. SHdairisactuallykindahardforhimtodealwithbesideslikeU-smashbutifhemisreadsthatyougetwhateveryouwantonhim.PIkachuhasasmuchcombopotentialthanMarioifnotmore. Hehasthesametypeofneutralgameandhecanedgeguardmariowithrunofairandthunderframetraps. Ihaveedgeguardedseveralmarioswiththatlol.Matchups Mario 25Hoenn #477 5/19/2015mariohasinvincibilityonhisupbanditissuperfast. Helooksreallyeasytogimpbutthatstupidinvincibilitybeatsrightthroughouraerials.marioisntreallythathardtogimp,butheisharderthanmostcharacters.Inditveryhardtogetmariointhesituationtogimp,oratleastgoodmariosforthatmatter.Basicallywhati will sayaboutmarioandgimpingisthatgimpingmarioisnotsomethingweshouldberelyingonfortakingstocks. weshouldonlybegettingagimpor2perset. becauseitishardtogethiminthosespecicsituations. Thosespecicsituationsusuallyrequiremariotohavehigherpercentsanywaysso.....MaybeIamjusttiredidkevenwithgimpingthough,iDontthinkthismatchupisanywhereneareven. Weoutspace his aerials with fsmash to catch his landing, right?If they ban FD and smashville,Wherearewesupposedtotakemario!?!?HebeatsusoneverystageotherthanFD(IthinkwebeatmarioonFDjustbecausewecanabusehislandingtoolsandjugglehimforever)... butifhehasplatforms,hecanpressureuslikecrazyandhasaplacetoland,butbecauseofbeingabletoban2stages,wearekindascrewedoverImightjustsoundlikeIamranting, buti amtiredandi passionatelyhatethismatchup(EventhoughthishasbeentheonlymatchupIhavebeentraininginforthelastmonth.)Isaiah:) #476 5/19/2015yeahthematchupisntcompletelybad,gimpingmarioiswhatmakesthismatchupclosertoeveninsteadofaBadMUforpikachu,itjusttakesalotofmovereadingtogetitdonePhili #475 5/18/2015I agree with everything here except when you said he is dicult to gimp. Wait.... sincewhen?Mariosrecoveryisverysub-parinthisgamecomparedtotherestofthecastandheisbasicallyforcedtorecoverylow. Imothismakeshimaprimetargetforedgeguardingwitht-joltsandrun-obairs.Idk,maybeIhaventplayedanymarioswhoactuallyknowhowtorecoverproperly.Butfrommyexperience, gettinghimostageseemstobetheonlywaytowinthismatchupMatchups Mario 26Hoenn #474 5/18/2015IthinkpikachulosestomariobecausehehastheabilitytoforceourapproachANDhasthetoolstowallusout.Heissosmallthatfaircannothithimunlesspoorlyspaced. HecanusmashanaerialthatweapproachwithandwecannotapproachmariowithshieldtopunishUsmash,becauseitissafe. UsmashmakesitREALLYhardtoapproach.Alsoifyoulookatpikachusframedata,pikachudoesnothaveburstoptions,infacthehasnothingclose. Dashattackissuperunsafe,dashgrabisextremelylaggy,fairissuper slow (and will not hit mario), dash shield is the only fast option we have (and marioisVERYhardtopunishOos). IhavediedforusingquickattackonmanyoccasionsandmostofthemariomainsthatIhaveplayedwithhavediscouragedmefromusingittoomuch. FireballsalsobeatpikasQA.Normallyreballsareabadprojectile,butpikachudoesnothavethespeedtopunishmarioforusingit(Unlikeahugeportionofthecast)duetobadburstoptions.Marioalsogainsmassiverewardifhegetsinonyou(especiallyifhegetsgrabs).Pikachuisbasicallyforcedtoplaymariosgamesincehecannotplaytherunawaygame.WealsocannotkillmariosinceheisdiculttogimpandallhehastodotostaysafeisUsmash,shield,andplaypatientlywhenheisatkillpercents. HecankillwithBthrow(verylikelytohaverageduetoourkillpotential),usmash,oredgeguardus,fsmashanddsmasharealsoverylaglessandhavesomesituationusage.Overallimo,thisisourworstmatchup. Ihavegivenuponthismatchup.Iactuallycouldwritemore,butIhavetogo.... IreallyhatethisMUIsaiah:) #472 5/18/2015Pikachuvs. Marioisclosetoeven,mariohasincreadiblylaglesssmashattacksanditmakeshimdiculttogetreallycloseto,+hiscaperemovespikachusrushapporchandtakesomuchofpikachusrangegame,butpikachuisfasterwithquickerarealssohecandosmallcombosonmariowithoutinteruption.Phili #381 4/23/2015Iamyetanotherpikachumainwhostruggleswithmarios. Iwilltaketheadvicepostedherethoughandjustcamp/runawayuntilIseeanopeningtogethimostage,thenedgeguardhimhard.Matchups Mario 27Hoenn #375 4/22/2015Dthowintoutiltdoesnotworkonthemajorityofthecast. Mostcharacterscanshieldoutofitalmostinstantlyandotherscaneasilyjustjumpoutofit. Iamlike95%surethatyoucanjustjumpoutofit. IdontfeelthreatenedbydthrowutiltIdontusuallyseegoodmariomainsgofordthrow(probablyforthisreason). Mostmariosjustgoforuthrow*GenericHandle* #373 4/22/2015Yes,thunderinturruptsquitenicely. Justbesurenottogetbaited.Legato #372 4/22/2015Heyguys! AsafoxmainIneverhadissueswithMariosutiltcombo(DIdownandshield). I notice Pika is not the same way. Does thunder have any potentialindisruptingthisstring?Iusuallytestthiskindofstumyself,butIhavenoaccesstothelabatm.Isaiah:) #371 4/22/2015MaybetoQAintohim,andpivotgrabhisfalllagDee-SmashinBoss #370 4/22/2015Consideringtherediculousamountoflittlelaghismoveshaveingeneral,itwouldntbethatbadifhewasgoingoensemostly,youhavetohithimeitherduringorbeforehedoesamoveiswhatIthinkiskeyDewey #369 4/22/2015IalsostruggleagainstMario. NotsurebecauseIstillwanttotestitinthematchupmyself, butIwouldthinkifyouweregonnaplaydefensivelyagainstaMario, Pikasd-tiltwouldbekey.Migul #368 4/21/2015Standthereandcrouch. Imeantgimphisdoublejump. Withoutit,hecantrecoverfor****. LiterallyjustdonothingandwaitforMariotoactandreacttoit. Doingnothingandmakingsuretheopponentcantdoanythingwillangeryouropponent,sooncethathappens,youcanstartpunishinghisunsafemoves. Also,ghthimontheground.Hoenn #362 4/21/2015Ihavefoundthatjoltcampinggetsmenowhere. Hecanjustcapeitonreaction. Sadlycapedoesnthavecooldownsowecantpunishit.Matchups Mario 28Gimpinghimisntaseasyasitsoundseither. MariohasinvincibilityframesonhisupB, sohecanendupalmoststagespikingusforthat. Idothinkthatwedestroymarioostage,butitisnotaseasyassomecharacters.IfIwanttoplaydefensiveagainstmario,whatshouldIdosincejoltinghimsucks?Dee-SmashinBoss #360 4/21/2015BtwYESMariowithhispracticallyunpunishableattacks............Iswearitirritatesme.ItsnotlikeIgetcomboedmuchevenfromagrab,butIswearitisfrustratingtodealwithcharactersthathavesolittleandImeanSOLITTLEendinglagsinamajorityoftheirattacks. ThosecharactersIdohatesomuch......Migul #359 4/21/2015Justlikegrabhim... Andthrowhimostage. Youdontalwayshavetobeclosetohim.CampwithT-Jolt,andhellcomeeventually(evenifittakes5minutes.) Onceyougothimostage,gimphimtohell. Onebairtogimphisdoublejumpwillkillhimatprettymuchanypercent.Neverplayhisgameinneutral. Doweirdstuhehasntseen,likegoingunderthestagewithyourrecoveryandpoppingupontheotherside. MarioIthinkreallyreliesonanopponentspatterns,andifyouhavealotofmixups,youregolden.Hoenn #356 4/21/2015IdontquickattackbecausemariocanjustthrowoutlikeanykillmoveandNEVERcommit.... SoIfeellikeitissuperriskyLike,Hedoesnthavetoreadmyquickattack,hecancoveritbyjustthrowingouthisnormalsupersafeandnearlyunpunishablehitboxesIamnotsayingthatIamanexpertthough,IwouldlovetohearyouchallengethewayIthinkaboutmarioIreallyhatethischaracter.... somuch... IamapowerrankedplayerandIstrugglewithevenlowlevelmariomains. Ireallyonhardreadingeverysinglemovetheymake.Iwillkeepthestuyoumentionedinmindthough.Isaiah:) #355 4/21/2015wellhowdoyouQA?youcantjustQAupandover,andyoucantQAthroughunlesshescomingatyouandclose,butyesitis,youjustneedtobaitoutthecapeandreadhisairgame,shieldgrab,yourD-Tiltshouldworkagainsthisgroundgame,andreballspamgivesyouQAopportunity,tryrammingintohismovelagwiththesecondzipofQAtogethimintheair,ifhethrowsoutaNairorBairthersttime,thenhewillmostMatchups Mario 29likelybedoingiteverytimeyougethimupsoyoucanjoltinhisgeneraldirectionorshieldgrab. btwifhesonlywalkingatyou,dontQAathim,itsbait. youcanthrowaT-Joltandwatchhisreaction.Hoenn #354 4/21/2015IhavediedbothfromgettingcapedandfromgettingupsmashedwhilequickattackingIhaveactuallygottenmyquickattackcounteredwithudd..... ThathurtatonDoyouthinkitispossibletowalloutmarioinsteadofrunningaway?IdontthinkrunningawaygetsmeanywhereagainstatechnicalmarioIsaiah:) #353 4/20/2015youcantgetcorneredwithQAHoenn #352 4/20/2015I amstill strugglingwiththemariomatchup. I tooktheadviceaboutusingPivotfsmashestocoverlandings,butIstillnditfairlydiculttogethimintheairsafely.Ifeel likehecaneasilyapproachus, butwecanteasilyapproachhim. Ifeel likehecankillaloteasierthanussincehedoesnothavetocommitwhenhesmashes. Peoplealwaystellmethatmariocantkillifyouplaydefensiveandrunfromhim,eventuallyIjustgettrappedinthecorner.TheonlythingthatIthinkpikachubenetsfrominthismatchupistheabilitytolandWhatshouldIdoagainstmarioinneutral?Istillhavemassivetroubleandlosetorandommariomainsthatarefarworsethanmeinskilllevel. IkindaunderstandwhattodoonceIgetinonhimintermsofpunishes,butIhavenoideawhatmymixupsinneutralare. WhatcanIabuseaboutmariosneutralgame?Evenasidefromneutralanyhelpwouldbeawesome[FBC]ESAM #299 4/17/2015MarioandPikaareactuallyveryVERYsimilarcharacters. Bothgetalotofmileagefromjugglingandgetalotofmileageoofstringingrandomaerialsoofanerranthit. I actuallyranlike50orsomatchesagainstDoomsmario. I thinkPikawinsslightlybecausestuimentionedabove,butalsobecauseMarioslandingsaretypicallyvery...linearsopikacanpunishwithPivotF-smashesorHSB(Withcustoms). ALsowecanstillgetalotofedgeguardsbecauseifmarioeveruseshisjumpandwehithimoutofit,hesdead. Deadashell.Matchups Mario 30Toolateformetodothemoredetailedanalysislikebefore, will maybedomoretomorrow.Hoenn #257 4/16/2015Mariovspika?55:45?pikachusfavor?ESAMareyousure?Ifso?pleasehelp! Icannotstandthatmatchup....I think luigi beats pikachu though but even if that is the case. we still have a ridiculousmatchupspreadEmuchu #189 3/25/2015Chaosmasterro(post185)said: ThemaincharactersIhaveaproblemwithareOlimarsbecausepikminabsorbjolts,Mariobecauseofcapeandreball. Sonicisweirdbecausehepingswithalotofourattacks,Fsmashpingswithhisdashattacks. Joltpingswithacoupleofmovesaswell. IguessIhavetroubleinmatchupswhereIcantrelyonjoltstoapproach. Yeah,Ifeelthepain,too,whenmyTjoltgetsbouncedorsponged,butitsnotgameoverifthatsthecase. Inquiteafewmatchupsagainstpeoplewithreectors,youcanactuallystilluseyourTjoltasamixuptoolbecauseofthestrangewayTjoltmoves. AgainstFoxorFalco,youdontreallycareifyourTjoltgetsreected,becauseitsslowanyway,andPikasalmostneverinthereectionpath. Inaddition,youcanmixupbetweenobviousreect-baitTjoltfrommid-closerange(togetthemusedtoreecting things) and longer-ranged Tjolts that you run with, and then Fair or grab themorsomethingbeforetheTJoltgetsthere. ItsevenbetteragainstMarioscapebecausehedoesntgettoactimmediatelyafterareection/absorptionlikeFoxorNesscan.SolidSense #126 2/14/2015MarioisprobablydeadevenwithPikachu,especiallywithcustoms. PikachucangimpMario,butonstageisprettymuchinMariosfavorbecauseofMariosadditionalweightandairspeed. HecanwallPikachuoutintheairandmakeitdiculttolandaKOorgrab.M15t3RE #123 2/14/2015LuigiisapainbutIhavenogoodexperienceagainstone. WhatIcandetermineisthathehasastrongerSHaerialgamethanPikachusbutnotgroundgameifyoudontrunintohisjabs. Hisoatinessmakeshimhardtojugglebutatleastheisverygimpableo-stage. I*believe*thisallappliestoMarioaswell.SolidSense #113 2/6/2015AtthispointintimeIdontbelievethatPikachuhasanybadmatchupsinthegame.Matchups Mario 31Hegoesevenwithatleastthefollowingcharacters: Sheik,Yoshi,Mario,Greninja,Megaman,peach.TheseguysallhavetoolsthatareeectiveagainstwhatPikachudoes,butPikachuhastoolsthatareannoyingforthem,too. Mariogetsoutragned.ZTDTECHnology #81 1/8/2015Itsnotthateasy. Lemmeexplainwhythisiserroneous. Inthisgame,whenyougrabtheledge, youareactuallyvulnerablefor1frame. IfMarioknowsyourejustgonnaswetspottheledge,hecanjustDashAttackandmostofthetimeitllhityouanyway. Ifyouarentexpectingityougetstagespiked. Ifyouare,thenonceyourepoppedotheledge,younowhavetodealwithCapeandFLUDD.Hisaerialsoutrangeoursyethismovesetisalsoveryfastsohecouldchoosetopressure/frametrapus. OntheledgeagainstMarioisreallyreallybad. ****isannoying.FirewaterDM #80 1/8/2015RecoveryagainstMarioisnttoobadaslongasyousweetspotmostofthetime,butIthinkthattjoltcampingisuseableinthismatchupbecauseitsstillbetterthanreballs,andifMarioisjustgoingtocapethem,thenthatisafreepunishforyoubecauseofthecapeslag. Recoveryatleastisntthathardtodealwithaslongasyoucansweetspottheledge,thoughIthinkthesafestspotistorecoverlowagainstMario.Soul #79 1/7/2015IhonestlythoughtPikawasevenvs. Mario. MightbeinhisfavorsinceCapeandF.L.U.D.D.ruinPikasrecoveryandlikeTechsaid,hismovesarefast. Probablyhasachance of KOing early as well with up smash (lel that super armor above his head), downsmashorforwardsmashifhegetsaread. Nottomentionthedownthrow-uptilt-upair-UpBcombo. PerhapsPPFSmashhelps?JoltscouldzonehimoutsinceMariocantuseCaperepeatedly(correctmeifImwrong). Ifthatdoesntwork,then...downtilt?Ormixthemboth. WhatdoIknow,though.ZTDTECHnology #78 1/3/2015IdliketotalkaboutMario. RightnowtheresaMarioinmyscenewhosskilledandknows the MU better than i do. The matches are close but I cant seem to close it out. Inparticular,MariosmovesareSOFREAKINGFAST.HessogoodatbullyingPikachuintheair. Hesalsogoodatpressuringusostage. NotaneasyMUatall.Matchups MetaKnight 321.4 MetaKnight.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsMetaKnight.BasicInformation.Posts: 330(best),206(maybe),9,6.Thoroughness: 6/10(ESAMdidagoodwrite-uponthis. Psyant#6swrite-upalsolooksimpressive,butitsalsoprettyold.)Matchup: 60:40or65:35F.Verdict: Mediumpriority. Itmightbenicetolookoversomeofthisstu.ListofPosts.[FBC]ESAM #330 4/18/2015Metaknightsneutralkindareliesonhisdashattackandgrab, soavoidingthosetwomovesisprettyessentialtoyouwinning.Ontheground,usealotofD-tiltbecauseithinkitislongerthanMKsd-tiltandf-tilt? Not100%. Eitherway, T-joltcamptoslowlyapproachisreallygoodsincehedoesntreallyhaveananswertoitbesideslike...walkupshield. Eitherway,youcoverspaceandthengetintodair/dashgrabmix-ups. PikachugetsALOTmoreoutofeveryhitthanMKdoes. PikachucanalsoedgeguardMKreallywellbecausewecankindamanipulatewhereheiswitht-joltandfall ofair/bair. MKdoeshavealotof killpotentialwithup-b,butPikassizeandweighthonestlymakesithardforhimtogetit.Ivefallenoutofitsomanytimesandpunishedthem. Metaknightreallycantcontendintheneutralgame,intheair,orostage. MKsweightisalsoverycondusiveofPikacombos,whichisamazing.Kenrawr #206 4/3/2015TheMKsIhaveplayedagainstalmostnevergettheircombo-upbo. WhentheydoImprettysureitsbecauseImiss-DI.Howexactlydotheyhaveaneasytimezoning?Ifeellikerunupshieldbeatshimforthemostpart. afaikPikachubairalsobeatseverythingMKhaso-stage.Matchups MetaKnight 33Psyant #6 Despitethegiganticnerfsthisguygot,hesstillgood. Prettydamngood. Thoughhisreachhasbeenshortenedagreatdeal,heactuallyreceivedsomegoodbusandisbetterthanheappearsatrst. HisforwardsmashisVERYpowerfulnowand his throw game is incredibly strong, having many guaranteed high damage follow-upsoofhisthrowsregardlessof%.Overall, its a bit of an awkward ght, as Pikachu vs any similarly small, fast characteris. Pikachusmainadvantageintheneutralgameishavingaprojectile,butMetaknightclosesdistancesofastthatitbarelymattersandyoullbesluggingitoutataverycloserangethroughoutmuchof thematch. MKhasstrongoptionsoutof shieldwithhisblindinglyfastDsmashandFtilt,butshieldingagainsthimisntthatgreatofanideaduetojusthowmuchhegetsoagrab. Ifoundthattobethenumberonethingtokeepinmindinthismatch-up: dontgetgrabbed. IfyougetgrabbedthatllleadtoafreeUpBoraerialforhimmostofthetime,andatlower%sevenafreeupsmash.Thepaindoesntendafterthat,however. Sohejustgotafreehitoathrow,andnowyoureabovehimtoboot. BeingaboveMKinthisgameisAWFUL.Easilyoneoftheworstcharacterstobeabove. Hisuptilthasabonkershitboxverticallysohesathreat when grounded, but in the air is where you really need to be scared of his lightningquickUpB,whichismuchbetterforchasingpeopleintheairthanitwasinBrawl. Itcanbeseriouslyhardtogettothegroundwithoutbeinghitbythatthing,evenwithairdodging. If he hits you with it then you wont be able to get back to the ground beforehimtopunishhimintime. Athigher%shisUpBwilleasilykillyouothetopaswell.Despitetheheavynerfsitgot,donotsleepontheNado. HisneutralBmovecanstilldolike20%toyouifyoueateveryhit,sobeonpointwithsmashDI(whatlittleofitthereisinthisgame)asitlostthevacuumeect. Hecanquicklyperformitoutofafulldash,sodontgetcaughtoguardbythat. Itssomethingtowatchoutforbecauseyoullbeextremelyclosetoeachothermostofthebattle.Whereedgeguardingisconcerned,alotofMKsliketorecoveratanequalheighttothestagewithSideB. ItseitherthatorrecoverlowandUpB. Youll rarelyseenadorecoveryanymore. SideBcanbeabitofapaintoedgeguardduetoitsconstanthitboxes,butitsdoable. MKhasabitofahardertimeedgeguardingusthanwedohim,sowehavetheadvantagethere. Still,therewontbemanysuccessfuledgeguardsforeithersideinthisMU,soitmostlycomesdowntoonstagegame.Overall,ourrange,damage,killpowerandedgeguarding,weightandrecoveryareonprettyequallevels. MKhoweverhasastrongergrabgamethanus,whilewehaveaMatchups MetaKnight 34projectileandquickattackasurpriseapproach. Ithinkitseitheraneven50-50ght,orpossiblyaslightadvantagetoMKlike55-45. Dontsleeponhimregardless,oryoullbeinforasurprisethersttimeyoughtagoodone. Hell-dew9intermsofMKidontknowwhaticanreallysayiwatchBlacktwinsandholyghtPIka/MKwhereHolywonwithMK.thatMUlooksreallyinterestingiwanttoplayitmoreMKlosesalotofannoyingbrawljankandfranklyitsaMUthatresetstoneutralalot. ifoundplatformsdonotrollinhisfavoratallcausehislackofmobilityandoutamazingplatformgameworkswellagainsthim. unlikealotofcharactersjugglinghimiscrappytolikewisehefailsprettyhardatgimpingussobothsidesofthatMUlookreallyawkwardcauseneithercharactercanabusetheirbeststrengthsMatchups MiiBrawler 351.5 Mii Brawler.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsMiiBrawler.BasicInformation.Posts: 481(andthatwasaquestionpost).Thoroughness: 0/10.Matchup: N/AVerdict: Highpriorityorveryhighpriority. Custommii brawleratthemostoptimalsettingscangetsomeseriousresults. Iknowofacustommiibrawlerthatgot2ndata100+persontourneyonceandcustommiibrawlerwasplaceinthetop8onZeRostierlist(yes,Iknowhislistisfarfromperfect(peachlowerthanmid-tierwtf?), butstill). Ihonestlythinkthatonemajorreasonwhythatisisbecausepeoplesimplydontknowthematchup. Weshoulddoourselvesafavorandlearn it because in the customs meta, I dont think this character is going to go awaysoon.ListofPosts.Soul #481 5/19/2015IdliketoknowwhatdoyouallthinkabouttheMiiBrawlerMUnowafterthatTwitchstreamfromdaysago. ThatMUisreallyweird,oratleast,seemstobeone. HelicopterKickisridiculousifanything;thesmallMiihasinsaneairspeed. Howarewesupposedtogetafterthem?(mentionedinpost497thattheywereignored)Matchups Ness 361.6 Ness.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsNess.BasicInformation.Posts: 533,409,389,271,270(requestforJayWon(oranyonewilling): Thisisreallyuseful! Updatethisifpossible),189,131,128,126?,125.Thoroughness: 7/10Matchup: 55-45F.Verdict: Mediumpriority. Possiblylighthigh.ListofPosts.Thor #613 7/2/2015AlsovsNess,hisautocancelfaircannothityouifyoujuststandstill[andduckinghelpsmore],thoughhecanfairifheswillingtohavefairslandinglag[butthenyoucanreacttolatefairandshieldgrabitIthink,oratleastshielditandhavesomesortofframeadvantage].RODO #608 6/27/2015NessandLucasareIMOtwoofthehardestmatchupsforPika. Sheik,Diddy,RosaandLuigidontreallybothermenearasmuch.Gibbs #607 6/26/2015SoafterIgotharshlystompedonbyMeccsonstreamthisweekatmyweekly,IvebeenputtingalotofthoughtintotheNessmatch-up. Thisseemslikeagoodtimetotalkaboutthismatch-upsinceIbelievethemassivebutoPSImagnetinpatch1.0.8haschangedthedynamicsofpikasneutralgamequiteabit.While it was never safe to use t-jolt against Ness, pre-patch at least he had to committo something laggy to reect/absorb. Now that psi magnet is totally free (end lag reducedtoonly4framesdownfrom20)t-joltandthunderarealmostremovedfromourtoolkit. WithonlyQAleftinourbagofgimmickspikaislefttoplayanalmost*shudder*honestneutralgame. InmysetsversusmyfriendsNess(overwi-sadly)IwaspleasedtondhoweectivepikasgroundedspacingandfootsiesgameisagainstNess. NesshasMatchups Ness 37greattoolstoboxoutPikawithhissuperdisjointedandfastSHfair,theoccasionalwellspacedPKFire,andadecenttogoodjabandtilts. HeevenhaddecentantiQAtoolswithSHnairandcheesyonstagePKthunderstu.The big thing he lacks however, is any reliable way to approach a grounded pika. Dtiltisgreatinthismatchup,asitstusallofNesssgroundedapproachoptions(maybedashattackisdisjointedenoughtobeaproblem,butIhaventexperimentedwiththatyet,shouldntbetoobigofaproblemasitissuperunsafeonshield). IalsofoundthatD-smashtobeadecentantiaerialoptionagainstNessforwhenafallingfairispoorlyspaced.SinceNesscanconvertsowelloofagrabatalmostanypercent,baitingdashgrabsislikelytobeabigpartofthismatchup. Indthatoneeectivemindgameistodeliberatelywianfsmashandthenpunishthedashinwithadsmash. Thisisntsafebyanymeans,butsinceithitsframe8(only2frameslaterthanourfastesttiltorstandinggrab)andhasenoughknockbacktopossiblysetupanedgegaurd. D-tiltandSHnairarealsookoptions,sincethegetspaceandmightforceatechchasescenarioorsetupajablock,butbetweenthesetwoD-tiltisthebestoptionasithaswaymorerangeandshouldntgetshieldgrabbedorstuedbyaSHfairordashattack.Therestonsmoretosayaboutthismatchup,especiallyonostageshenanigans,eectiveandsafeQAuseageandhownottogetgrabbed,butImquicklygettingoutofmydepthonthissubject. Imgoingtoguessthatalotofpikachumainsaregoingtosaythatpikamightlosethismatchup,butIthinkthatisbecauseNessstrengthsdenethematchupmorethanpikas. ButevenifNessrestrictspikaoptionsquiteabit,andevenifhehasreallyjankyeasykillsIsuspectpikamightstillhavemorewaystowin.Thoughitsprobablysupereven.NowforsomeESAMfootage. AllPikamainsshouldstudythissetthatwasplayedlastweekbetweenESAMandShakyataweeklyinsouthorida. ItcontainsnotonlysomeofthehighestqualityPikaandNessplayIveeverseen,itmightjustbeoneofthebettersetsofsmash4tohavetakenplacesofar. Gethypeandtakenotes:VideohereAndjustforfulldisclosure,onthecompleteoppositeendofthespectrum,hereismegettingabsolutelyboppedbyMeccs. IfyourefusetotakemeseriouslyafterseeingthisIwouldntblameyou. ThiswasmyrsttimeonstreamXD:VideohereMatchups Ness 38IhavejohnsfordaysabouthowontiltIwasafterworkandonlittlesleep,butreallyMeccsisjustonatotallydierentlevelthanmeatthemomentandwouldbeatmeatmybest. IjustwishIwentoutinawaythatdidntmakemypikalooklikeslopcity.HopeIgettoplayhimagainsoon.M15t3RE #533 6/3/2015NesshasnotroublecomboingPikachulikehedoestherestofthecast. Afterall,theyareaboutthesamesize. PikachualsohasnotroublecomboingNess. GettingfrequentlytrappedbypkreWILLloseyouthematch-up. Assuch,aerialapproachingisoftenpreferred. Iftheplaystyleismoreaerial-based,youllprobablyseelotsofemptyfairs,whichyoucancounterwithawell-timedgraboru-air. Baitoutpkrehereandtheretoo because it does not ignite into the ames when it hits a shield. Also bait his absorberwith thunder jolt when you have trouble getting up close and personal. During the secondor so of absorbing animation that takes place youll have that rather large window of timetorunupandgrab. IdontrecommendusingthunderuntilNessisatasubstantiallyhighpercentbecauseonlythenisthehitstunhighenoughtorenderthundersafefromhisabsorption. EdgeguardingNessshouldbeintuitive,anditisindeedacakewalk. JustbesurethatifNesshitsyouwithhisup+bthatyouarereadytotechthestage. IuseNess,btw.Dee-SmashinBoss #532 6/3/2015butanywaywhataboutcharacterslike....Nessyouguytalkedabouthimyet?howwouldhe do against Pika?I heard he can immediatly cancel anything he absorbs, has disjointedrediculousariels,thatannoyingBthrowkilltheyALWAYSgofor......notanentirlybadmobility,butnothingspecial.Pikabunz #409 5/1/2015Soheresasmall tiponsurvivingcertainbthrowsalittlelonger. Noticehowsomebthrowsknockyouostagewithyourbackfacingthestage? If thishappens, holdtowardsthestageandmashAsoyourbaircomesout. Thestart-upframesfrombairmovesPikachutowardsthestageabitallowinghimtosurviveabout5%longer. ThisworksagainstNess,Sonic,Peach,Shulk,andCaptainFalcon. Imjustgoingbymemorysotheremightbe1or2morecharactersImforgetting. Donttrythiswithfairwhenfacingthestagethough! Thisactuallykillsyoualittleearlier! Andheresonelittlerandomfact. Pikachuhastwodierentknockbackanimations. Onewherehesspinningandtheotherwherehesnot. Hisspinninganimationcankillhim1%earlierifhesstillin it when he reaches the blast zone. Its completely random as far as I know. And I onlytestedthiswhenhewasfacingthestage. Itcouldbedierentwhenhesfacingaway.Matchups Ness 39Hoenn #389 4/25/2015Againstness,playpassive. SitaroundhisPKrerangeandbaitreacttowhathedoes.Quickattackisverygoodagainstnessifyouneedazonebreaker,itforcesnesstowaitandseewhatyoudo.Thethingabouthisaerialsisthatnoneofthemprotecthimfrombelow. ANDFaircannottouchyouunlessyouareintheair(orhedelaysitoutofashorthop). Takeadvantageofhowoatynessis. UsealotofRARUairsandSpacedFsmashes(getgoodatdashcanceledFsmashesoutoffoxtrot). Ifhetriesjumpingaway,youcanusuallycatchhislandingwithaspacedfsmashsincehehasnowayofgettingoutofitunlessheretreatstoaplatform. Plusifyoucatchhisdoublejumpwithfsmashandheendsupostage... (Idontneedtoexplainthislmao)Ifyoundyourselfgettinggrabbedalot,usealotofshorthopsanddtilts. Shorthopallowsyoutogetoutofhisgrabrangeandallowsyoutosafelyescape. Ifhetriestorunuptoitandshield,youarenotforcedtoplaythe50:50landinggame,dontthrowoutanaerial,justdoublejump/quickattackaway.Basicallyshorthopsbeatnessgrabwithoutcommittingsoitisreallysafeandhardtopunisheveniftheyreadit. (atsuperhighpercentsnessreliesofbthrowandcantgrabyoufordoingthis. Nessalsocantchaseyouwithanystrongaerialsfordoingthis,especiallyifyoujumpaway)Ithinkthismatchupwillgetbetterforpikachuastimegoeson,IdontthinkanyonetrulyknowsthenessMU,butIdothinkthatshorthoppingandgettinggoodatforwardsmashingafterdashingwillbeahugepartofthisMU)Cubesphere #388 4/25/2015Heyguys,IcouldneedsomehelpontheNessMatchup... WheneverIghtagoodNess,Igetdestroyed. ThereasonwhythatisisbecauseIsimplycantchallengeanyofhisattacks. MainlybecauseofallofhisAerialsthatarealleitherdisjointedlikeFair,Bair,(Dair)ortheyarestrongwithalotofprioritylikeNairandUpAir. HisDashAttackisalsoverydisjointedandIjustcantseemtoworkaroundit... HealsoabsorbsanyTJoltsandevenhealshimself. SometimesIcanmanagetobaitoutaDownBbyNessbyshootingaTJoltandgetacomboinbecauseofitsEndLag. However,theNessImused to ghting to has managed to work around that. Also,none of my other approachesworkbecausehecanjustFairandIdontgetanyhitsin. AndQAdoesntworkbecausehecanseeitcomingbecausemymomentumstopsintheair...Matchups Ness 40TheonlygoodthingisthatNessisquiteeasytojugglebecauseofhisoaty-ness(hehe)TL;DRNesssaerialsaredisjointed,hecanabsorbTJsandhasmorekilloptions.HowdoesPikachuwinthatMU?btw: sameproblemwithGWandRosaluma[FBC]ESAM #271 4/16/2015NessSynopsis: Nessisprettyannoyingifheisintheairandfacingyou. Thatsaboutit. Grabsaregoodforhimaswell,butPikasgrabsareequallyasgood. PikaexcelsinEVERYotheraspectoftheMU,especiallyedgeguarding.Ground-Ground: IMOpikachusfavor. Bothofusgetalotoofagrab,butPikad-tilt. Dtiltstartsalotofpressure. Ifyoud-tiltandheattemptstostayoutofrangeandPKFire,youcanshield. Becognizantofpk-respacingbecauseyouwilltakeaLOTofdamageifithits. However,youcanpunisheveryPKFireunlessyousuck. QAbreakstheneutralgameREALLYhardanditstartslikeEVERYTHINGGround-Air: HonestlyIthinkPikachuwinsbothincarnatesofthis. WhenNessisintheairallyouhavetodoisshieldandhecantreallydomuch. Youcanpunishallofhisaerialsonshieldwhichissuperfreeandhedoesntreallyhavealotofmix-ups. Youcanalsorununderhimandgetuairsthatwouldbeatoutmostaerialsbesidesnair. Youcanbepatientanditsprettyeasy. Nessdoesntreallygetalotwhenhesonthegroundsohewillwanttogointheairalot,anditisntreallyproblematic.When Pika is in the air, you can essentially maneuver around ness really well. Landingfairandbairareprettydevastating. Nairisalsoreallygoodrisingasisfair,butNesscanpunishthatsoyouhavetodorisk/reward. Alotofcross-upsarereallygoodasitmakesithardertopunishforNess.Ostage: PikaNess. T-joltmanipulation, bairfastfalls, fairtokeepthemo,thunderiftheygohighordonthaveaDJ.Allthegoodstu.JayWon #270 4/16/2015IrecentlyplayedareallygoodNessplayerthatspacedwithN-air/F-air(hepracticallyjustspammeditandneverapproached)Icouldntgetin. AndholyjesushisU-airissofreakingstrong. IfheairdodgesanyofmyaerialswhenItrytofollowuphejustMatchups Ness 41immediatelypunisheswithanU-air/B-air. Scary. ButyeahIknowhesgimpable,thatsne. butIstruggleontheneutral.Anyhelpshortadvicewouldbenice.Edit: Nesssaerialsarefreakinginsane! Forcomparisonpurposes(datafrompre1.0.6):Ness:N-air7-11%F-air1%,1%,4%B-air8-15%U-air13%D-air10-12%Ike:N-air9%(clean),6%(late)F-air12%B-air14%U-air11%D-air15%Charizard:N-air10%(ame),7%(tail)F-air11%(early,cleanarm),12%(cleantip)B-air10%(body),13%(tail),15%(ame)U-air13%D-air14%(clean),8%(late)Matchups Ness 42DonkeyKong:N-air11%(clean),8%(late)F-air16%,15%(sweetspot),13%(sourspot)B-air13%(clean),8%(late)U-air13%D-air16%(sweetspot)13%(sourspot)Marth:N-air2%/3%(hit1),6%/8%(hit2)F-air7%/10%B-air9%/12%U-air9%/12%D-air11%(blade),13%(non-meteortip),14%(meteortip)Theyresofreakingfastandgoonparifnotbetterthanheavyhitters.Emuchu #189 3/25/2015Chaosmasterro(post185)said: ThemaincharactersIhaveaproblemwithareOlimarsbecausepikminabsorbjolts,Mariobecauseofcapeandreball. Sonicisweirdbecausehepingswithalotofourattacks,Fsmashpingswithhisdashattacks. Joltpingswithacoupleofmovesaswell. IguessIhavetroubleinmatchupswhereIcantrelyonjoltstoapproach. Yeah,Ifeelthepain,too,whenmyTjoltgetsbouncedorsponged,butitsnotgameoverifthatsthecase. Inquiteafewmatchupsagainstpeoplewithreectors,youcanactuallystilluseyourTjoltasamixuptoolbecauseofthestrangewayTjoltmoves. AgainstFoxorFalco,youdontreallycareifyourTjoltgetsreected,becauseitsslowanyway,andPikasalmostneverinthereectionpath. Inaddition,youcanmixupbetweenobviousreect-baitTjoltfrommid-closerange(togetthemusedtoreecting things) and longer-ranged Tjolts that you run with, and then Fair or grab themorsomethingbeforetheTJoltgetsthere. ItsevenbetteragainstMarioscapebecausehedoesntgettoactimmediatelyafterareection/absorptionlikeFoxorNesscan.SolidSense #131 2/22/2015Learntoloved-tilt,up-tilt,shf-air,andshd-air. Thatsaboutit. D-tiltisyourbestMatchups Ness 43toolintheMU;Nesshasnoanswerduetohislackofrange. AverageNesseswillrollbehindyouwhenyoud-tiltpressure,sobecarefulnottoovercommittod-tiltandendupgettinggrabbedfrombehind. Up-tiltcatchestheroll,sotryd-tilt-pause,waitforroll-reacttorollandup-tilt.SolidSense #129 2/19/2015Yeah, you should never try to hit Ness with Thunder from below unless you are b-reversingtheThunder. Instead,trytoberightnexttohimandhithimwiththeThunderasithitsyourbody. Hecantabsorbthat,anditkillshiminstantlyathighpercents.Hell-dew #128 2/19/2015nessisweirdhesdisjointedandhardtoapporchwehithimreallyhardwhenwegetinNairbreakscombosostagehereallyhastwooptionsinalotofcasesgofortheledgeorgoforthestage. ifhegoesforthestageitsgonnabesomethinglikeFaircomminginorAirdodgefunfactFsmashbeatsbothofthoseyoujusthavetobesituatedintherightspotandtimeitright.if hegoesfortheledgewhenyoudivedowntheresafewoptionsrstoneisjolt.peoplemightbethinkingwhat?youcanhitthePKT2withjoltgettingridofit(whichishardtodo)youcanhitnessafterhehitshimselfifyoudothisitcutsthedistancebyafairbitofthePKT2whichcanmakeitsohedoesntreachtheledge. oryoucanjusthithimbeforehandsendinghimfurtheroutallowyoutorejolthimforoneoftheothersituationsorgoforsomethingelseentirelyalsoifthenessiswaitingostagenotcommitinghecanjumpcanceledhismagnetmeaninghecanabsorbyourjoltthenusehissecondjumpdontgetbaitedunderstandthesituationswherehesforcedtocommit.ifyoudivehimstraightwithFairorBairknowthespacingforitobviouslyitworksbutifhehitsyouwithPKthunder2ithurtsbad. bereadytobestagespikedinalotofcasessotechalternativelythereistheoptiontojustgobelowhimandthunderhimwiththespikehitboxandjustkillhim.likewisewallinghimowiththunderandalsonoteif yougobelownessandhemagnetsyourthunderyoudontgettheupwardsmomentumfromthethunderwhichcankillyou(thisalsoappliestorosawithgravitypull)onstagerealizethatghtinghimintheairistoughashell. hisfairoutspacesyoubadly. hisupairisalsonutssodontbotherchallengingeither. hisNaircombobreaksto. ifyouoptforagroundapproachunderstandhesgonnawantgrabscausefreegrabMatchups Ness 44combo damage and at high % he has kill throws. use lots of Dtilt running around baitingFsmashlandingslow%combosofcoursepivotgrabsetc. whenhesaboveyougohambeathimupwithUpairscausehisDairsucksandhislandingoptionsarefairlylimtedalotofthemwilltrylandingwithFairsforexampleandrememberFsmashoutspacesFair.whenathigh%sstaycenterstageitlimitshiskilloptionsgetgetcaughtbyrollintoledgeandbackthrowandknowyoucansnipePKthundershitboxwithjolttodefendyourselfintheairivewavebouncedjoltsanddisabledthemmanytimesbefore.pastthaticantthinkofmuchmoreiknowEsamknowthisMUstupidlywellSolidSense #126 2/14/2015AbsolutelythemostimportantthingagainstNessisedgeguarding. Perfectyouredge-guardinggame,andnevereverlethimontothestageorledgeforfree. Youmightmisssometimesandendupinabadsituation,butwhocares?ItsPikachu. HecanjustgetbacktoagoodsituationwithQAagain. YouhavetobeaggressivebecauseNessstusPikachuonthestageandkillswayearlier. JumpnearhimwhilehesusingPKThundertorecoveranduseThunder;ifyoutimeitright,youwontgethitbythePKT2butyouwillsendNessying. Ittakesabitofpracticeandalotofguts.M15t3RE #125 2/14/2015ImaybecrazyforthisbutIvealwayslovedghtingcharacterswhoarereadywiththedown+btoabsorbmyjolts. ThisincludesGW.Youknowwhy?Itgivesyouapowerfulbaiting tool which has a remarkable success rate. I will certainly allow Ness to absorb myjoltinexchangeforgettinggrabbed. Thethunderiswhatyoushouldbeextraordinarilycarefulinusing. Andnotmuchcanbedoneaboutthatbackthrow. Trynottostaygrounded. NessloveshisSHnairsoyoullwanttochallengehisSHnairwithyourown.AutocanceledSHdairsaregoldentooespeciallyathigherpercentsduetoNessutilizingthrowcombosandbackthrowasakillmove. IfyouareclosetoNessduringhisrecoveryattempt he is easily gimped. If not, but you are at a low percent, feel free to intentionallygethitbyhisPKThunderrecoverybecausewhenNesshitsanopponentthiswayitcutstherecoverydistancebyabouthalf.PKMudkip #84 1/21/2015PikachucaneasilycombohimduetohimbeinglightweightbutalmostofhisspecialscanbeblockedbyNessPSIMagnet. Isay46Matchups Rosalina&Luma 451.7 Rosalina&Luma.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsRosalina&Luma.BasicInformation.Posts: 453,452,447,445,423,385,383,382,205,1.Thoroughness: 5.5/10.Matchup: 60-40F.Verdict: Mediumpriority. Perhapshigher,sinceshesahigh-tiercharacter.Posts.RODO #608 6/27/2015NessandLucasareIMOtwoofthehardestmatchupsforPika. Sheik,Diddy,RosaandLuigidontreallybothermenearasmuch.phili #588 6/20/2015(HELPINGTHEENEMY)(thispostisaresponsetopost587)Ifyouarelookingforasecondary, IsuggestYoshi ratherthanSheikbecauseofthefactthatyousaidyoualreadystrugglewithYoshis. IveheardacoupletopplayerssaythatSheikstruggleswithYoshibecauseshehasnoreliablewaytokillhim. Therefore,pickingSheikwouldcover the Pikachu matchup, but you would still struggle when you came up against Yoshi.However,pickingYoshialsocoversthePikachumatchup,withtheaddedbonusthatitmayalsohelpyouwithSheik.Justmyopinionanyway,hopethishelps.Kaishin #587 6/19/2015(afternotingthattheirmainwasRosalinaandLuma)Icandealwiththerun-of-the-millPikachumainsthatarejustgettingonthehypetrain. Infact,theonlyPikachuIveeverfoughtthatIvehadtroublewithwasESAMs. However,whenitcomestotheupperlevelonesImgoingtoeventuallyhitablockasthematchupisreallygonnagetme. ItsprobablyRosalinassecondworstmatchupsimplybecauseofhowgoodPikais. Though,itsstill signicantlybetterthanYoshi asitsjustacaseofbettercharworsecharMatchups Rosalina&Luma 46unlikethatMU.ImalreadylookingforasecondarytocounterYoshi,soifanyofyouwouldhaveanyadviceonwhocountersPikachu,Imallears.Hoenn #459 5/13/2015Once I started beating nite consistently, I will make a matchup analysis video or something.Hehasgottenatonbetteratthematchupandourmatcheshavebeenextremelyevenlately. IdidnotknowhowtobeatrosanairuntilafterthelasttimeIplayedhim. Ourlast matches were just me running into nair and making hard reads to even it out. I usedtoneverdropgamestohimuntilhestartingnairingNow that I know how good crawling is in the MU for beating nair on reaction,I dontthinkIwillgoevenwithhimnexttime.Thor #455 5/12/2015True[IthinkmostkeepLumafairlycloseaswell].Iwasthinkingofbeingatrangewhentheystartcharging[ex: crossstage]-iftheystartchargingclosetoyou,Idthinkyoushouldjustfullhopandfastfallwithfairwhiletheyreinlagtosetupagrab,butIguesstheresawkwardspacingswherethisuseoft-joltisbest.Meganmang #454 5/12/2015Byfullhoppingandshootingthethunder, IintendforRosatoshootlumapastme.SothenImbetweenlumaandrosa,withatjoltheadedtowardsRosa. Withthetjolten-route,shecantcomepunishmewhileItryandsendlumatoherdoom.IfeellikegoodRaLplayerskeeplumacloseinneutralthough.Thor #453 5/12/2015If you mean while shes charing neutral B you FH tjolt,I recommend SH t-jolt - someonere-test this, but Im almost positive t-jolt stus Luma entirely [that is, I think it damagesherandhaltshermotion],andSHletsyoufadebackifshesdoingitatarangethatmakesyouuncomfortable,whilemakingthet-joltblockforyouonthewaydownsothather neutral B cant hit you in lag [whereas with a fullhop, you have to land often withoutt-joltprotectingyouifshetimesitwell]. Alsoprobablydoesntworkwithcustomsiftheresateleportingone,sinceIthinkthereis... [ImnotfamiliarwithcustomssinceIdonthavemysetuponmeoutsideofa3DSandwewerentusingthemforawhile+nalsnowandnoevents=noincentivetolearn... butwithnalsdoneattheendoftoday(Tuesday)andgoingbackhomewherewehavecustoms,Illlearn,sonoworries-andyesIknowaboutHSB].Matchups Rosalina&Luma 47IfitstustheLumaaswell asIthink, afterthet-joltconnects, shecanstar-bit,throwanattack,orrecallLuma. Inthelasttwosituations,fsmashoutrangesthemandshouldbesafe[oryoufsmashtheaironrecallbutRosaisslowsoyoushouldbene].iImightnotoutrangestarbit[theresacustomthatIknowitdoesntoutrange]butthatwontKOyouaslongasyoudontgethitbyasillynot-realfollowupfromLuma,andyoumightstilltrade. IthinkpotentiallydepletingathirdofLumashealth,ifnotoutright KOing, is ok for taking a non-lethal 2 or 3 percent when Rosalina is out of rangeforafollowup. SobasicallyIalmostalwaysSHtjoltifIseeherstartchargingit,andpreparetofsmashifLumaendsupclose.Also,SHdairintheMU-yayornay?IlikeitfornailingLuma,doingdamagetoshield[notaton,butitsanicechunk],andtheoptionalfastfallabilityifyoususpectanOoScounter[thisis99%terrible,butmaybeonceasetitactuallyhitsaRosalinawhostryingtopunishquicklyOoS-andifyoudoitmorethanoncetheyrepotentiallyonguardofitandlosetheirpunishwindow],plusthecross-overcanhelpprotectfromLumasome. However,Imightbemissingsomething[besidestheobviouslong-startup,whichIdontviewasmuchofadrawback].EDIT:Also@HoennprettysureIplayedNiteatEndthePaign-maybeifyouseehim,youcouldaskifheremembersascrubbyPikachuwhokeptbeingweirdostagewithThunderandlosingbecauseheshieldeddsmash... thatdbeme, althoughIvegottenabitbettersincethen[myPikachuwasstillmostlyuntested,buthemademefeelalotlessawfulvsRosalinaandLumathankstothestraighthouroffriendliesweplayed,where most wen to last stock but I only won one [admittedly we played nearly allonTownandCitysincehedidntcareandIdislikethestage,sopracticingitIguredwasagoodidea](butnojohns)].Megamang #452 5/12/2015Idliketoadd, whensheisintheairyoushouldnttryanddosomefancyQAstu,especiallyfromabove, unlessyouarecompletelysureyouwill notbeanywherenearhermassiveu-airhitbox. Thatisagoodwaytodiewayearly,andthenyouarereallybehindbecauseRosalumacanslowthematchdownalotifshewants,andthenshecanavoidyourkillsetups,andthenshehasrage,andyouarebacktostepone.IfshesendslumaouttodoherdirtyworkwithneutralB,IliketofullhopaTjoltatherandthenusethetimesheisreactingtolandanddamageluma. Isthisviable?Matchups Rosalina&Luma 48OokamiHajime #451 5/11/2015IactuallywantedtoinchforwardandsayPikachuwinsit,butIthoughtmostofyouwouldbeopposedtothatidea,haha.Hoenn #450 5/11/2015Ihavenotdonemuchtestingwiththis, butwecoulduselumatohelpuscoverspotdodges,butIalsodonotknowifusinglumaforthatisanoptimalwaytocoveraspotdodgelolHoenn #448 5/11/2015AnotherthingwecanabuseintheMUisthehitlagthatlumacreates. Rosalinacannotdoanormalgetupotheledgesafelylikemostcharacterscan.Ifyoufsmash,lumawillcreateTONSofactiveframesanditwillcatchRosalinaintheprocess. Inotherwords,ifrosalinahasluma,youcanVERYeectivelycoverthenormalledgegetupbyusingFsmash.SeevideohereAlsodontusethisvideoforMUreference,IwasnotverygoodattheMUbackthen,IamjustusingthatsmallportionofthevideoforreferenceThor #447 5/11/2015IthinkPikachubeatsRosalinaslightly-weobviouslybeatRosalinasolo, andT-joltmeansshehastoapproach[wecanpunishherabsorbingmovealthoughsometimesthet-joltactuallyhitsusawaywhileitsbeingabsorbed]whileLumadieseasilytodashattack, dsmash [or fsmash although thats less common], and even landing bairs. Rosalinaisalsohighlysusceptibletouthrowthunder-ImprettysurethatevenifsheDIs,Lumais still hit by the Thunder sweetspot,which is a nice chunk of damage and can KO Lumadepending onher percent. Impretty sure itllalways popher upenoughtoat least thenusmashorfsmashher.Weoutspacejabcancelswithfsmash. OurcrouchcanapparentlyduckRosalinasnair. Dtiltmightoutrangejabcancelsaswell,andonestrategythatactuallycanworkagainstridiculouslycampyRosalinaandLumaplayersistojustoutcampthem-Lumablockst-jolt,butshehasalimitedhealthbar,soyoucant-joltabunchtoKOLuma[alongsidesomeothermovesusually]thengoinonRosalina.OokamiHajime #445 5/11/2015Rosalinais tricky. Throughpersonal experience, I have never lost toRosalinainMatchups Rosalina&Luma 49tournament. Pikachuisfastandbreaksthroughthewall-likedefensiveplaystylethatispopularwithRosalinaplayers. QAisgreatinthisMU,allowingustoquicklyrackupdamageoofsmallconversions. Rosalinaalsohasaverybighitbox,combinedwithbeing oaty AND light, which makes ridiculously easy to juggle with our already amazingu-air. B-airmakesquickworkofherrecoveryandforcespanickyRosaplayerstorecoveroverthestagewithstrongpunishes. DashattackcanknockLumaothestagefromtheverymiddle. Ontheotherside,PikachuisalsoverylightandissusceptibletodyingatextremelylowpercentstoLumau-air. LumapunishesveryhardwhentheyhavethereadonQAaswell. Lumaactsasashieldandblocksthunderjolts,whichisoneofourmostreliableapproachoptions,andthebrickwallthatLumapresentswithjabcancelsmakesitverydicultforPikachutogetpastit. Isayitseven. ThisisatournamentmatchofmevsoneoftheRosasinthisregion.SeevideohereThor #425 5/4/2015EDIT:Also,Hoenn,doyoumeanthatnaircanthitPikachuATALLregardlessofifPikachuisliterallydirectlyunderRosalinaashernairiscomingbackaroundtotheground?Thatseemscrazygood...Hoenn #423 5/4/2015DidyouguysknowthatpikachucanduckANDCRAWLunderrosalinasJab(Jabs1and 2,not 3) And pikachu CANNOT be hit by rosalinas Nair while crawling or ducking?PikachucanliterallyjustreacttoitandcrawltowardsitthenpunishnairwithUtiltorsomethingbig... Butcrawlingseemslikeagreatapproachmixupagainstrosalinaifsheiszoningwithnairandjab. Shethenhastorelyondtilt,whichisaloteasiertodealwith than jab. I lost to the rosa twice this weekend, due to not knowing how to deal withnair,andIwasgoingtoaskforadvice,butIlabbedthemuwithhim... ThanksNiteThor #391 4/26/2015Itwasahugestruggle(insomewaysworsethanwhenIplayedmoreSheikandhadtoghtRosalinaandLuma-Idontgettopracticeagainstherandthatwasanightmare)andIthinkthisistheonlyMUthattrulygivesmets(sinceIplayedasolidRosalinaandLumaatonasPikachuandrealizedtheriskyutilityofdsmashforkillingLuma,aswellasdashattackandusingtjolttohelpstuher).Legato #385 4/23/2015Cantsaymuchaboutbair,butnairdenitelyseparatesthem,IndnairOOSwhenMatchups Rosalina&Luma 50Rosagoesforagrabcanworkprettywellifyouknowthatswhattheywant. Denitelynotthesafestofoptions,butcanberewardingifyouareneartheledge.Funnythough,Ivenevertrieddashattacktogetridofluma. Thatisprobablythebetteroptionneartheledge. GuessIllkeepthatinmindnextthetimeIfaceagoodRosaluma.*GenericHandle* #384 4/23/2015Ihaventtestedthis,butregardingRosaluma,duetobairsmultihitnature,Iwouldbevery(bairy?) unsurprisedifbairprettymuchautoseparatedthem. Ifthatsthecase,thenRARtobairwouldbeveryuseful,yes?Dewey519 #383 4/23/2015IvehadmuchmoresuccessagainstRandLonceIstartedfocusingonbaitingattacks,punishingandseperatingRosafromherLuma,andimmediatelygettingtheLumaothestagew/dashattacks(alsowannatryHSBonaluma)insteadofgoingforfollowupsonRosalinaherself. Itsbeenworthnotgettingthefollowupcombostothispoint.[FBC]ESAM #382 4/23/2015Dashattacktypicallykillslumaprettydamnquickly(Assumingyouarehittinghertowardstheshortsideofthestageandnotonsmashville)Phili #381 4/23/2015Asforothermatchupsidlikeadviceon,(Rosalinaandluma)wouldbeatthetopofthelist. ArethereanyapproachoptionsthatjustkilllumainstantlysoIdonthavetodealwiththatannoyinglittlestar?Ifnot,Idappreciateadviceonhowtodealwiththematchupingeneral.DeathlyFerret #348 4/20/2015Huh. Pikachuisusuallymygo-tocharacterfordealingwithJigglypu,Yoshi,MewtwoandRosalina. TheyrelightenoughforPikachutogetagimp/earlykill,andPikachuhasgreatanti-aerialoptionsforoatycharacters.Hell-dew #205 4/3/2015ifeelrosaisrather+1forusoreven. shehasthekillpowerwebeatherinneutralshecanstallourhitboxeswithlumaandneuterourmutihitmovesprettyhardwecankilllumahalfdecently(notinsanelywellbutnottobadlyeither)TBHi2stockedXatisgame1atapexandfoundoutthehardwaywhatnottodoagainstherandhegotmebackprettynicely. herworststagefunnilyenoughisOmegalylatwhilelylatisreallybadforheronrecoverytheplatformlayoutplaysinherfavorandabilitytoquickattackMatchups Rosalina&Luma 51cancel on them doesnt matter in the slightest learn what moves kill her luma (dash attackisgodlyforit)NaircannotkilllumabutwillsenditawayintumblewhileUpairnairwillkillluma. Notelumahasallknockbacknotrosasoyeahfearlumalol.Infzy #204 4/3/2015RosalinasannoyingforPika. Oneofourmaintoolsinthatmatchupistostayaway,andusequickattacktopunishRosieifshepressesanybuttons. ButiftheQAtradesitisnothingshortofhorrible,andwecantletitlandnearher. Soitstough.Hell-dew #1 WhenpressuringRosalina is super annoying to approach juggling luma seams fairly eective for gettingitoutofyourskin. RarupairseamsgoodfortakingitothegroundthenNairingitostageleavingitinstunasitfallstoitsdeath. whenlumaisputintoitsstunanimationuntilitlandsitcannotberecoveredbyrosawhileinstun. Grabbingrosacanbeveryunsafewithlumaaroundinoticedpummelingwillstunlumaandfthrow/backthrowaregoodgetawayfromlumatoolusingtheFthrowhitboxorBackthrowtogetaway. Herrollsandairdodgeseamreallyreallygoodtomakingherstallingoutforlumarespawnreallyeasyandlumarespawnsinlikelessthen10secondssokillingithighisreallypowerfulbecauseitdelaystherespawntimeraddingvaluablesecondsbeatrosaup.RosaonherownisalotlessstressfulunlikeICsrosaherselfisfarfarstrongerandcanrecoverwithouttomuchhassleshecandelayherrecoverymakingedgeguardingherreallyreallydicultivehadsomeluckwithmutihitmoveslikebairandstickingontheledgeandtryingtocatchher. againherdodginggameisverypowerfulandherFairmakesapporchingwithourfairkindadicult. Ifoundihadalotmoreluckghtinghergrounded.jugglesareinterestingonthedefensivesideifoundyourbetteronotchallengingherupairshehasinsanerangemakingspacingitreallyeasyshehastroublechasingyouthoughunlessshestrappingwithlumayoushouldbeabletoescapewithskuilbasheswhilehighupthenquickattackingawaytosafetyresettingthingsbacktoneutral.intermsofplaystylecampingherseamshorridlettinghersetuplumapositionsmakesheraheadachetodealwithwhilerushingherdownseamsverypotent. abusethespeedandagilitypikachuhasquickattackscanpopherupwhilekeepingheronhertoes. intermsofstagesireallylikeyoshisbecauseQACactuallyworkstheregivingusstupidmobility. IfoundherabilitytocampbattleeldplatformskindaannoyingandMatchups Rosalina&Luma 52herheightallowshertoabusetheplatswhileFDmakeshermorepronetojoltscrossingoveriminterestedinothersinputhereonstageshere.Matchups Sheik 531.8 Sheik.ClickheretoseetheSpecicCharactersMatch-up: PikachuvsSheik.BasicInformation.Posts: 511,510,496,250,230,228,118,115,91,30(mentionsvectoringsoshowsitsdating),28?.Thoroughness: 7/10(maybedated).Matchup: 50:50Nocustoms,55:45Fcustoms.Verdict: Medium-highpriority. Sheikisprobablythebestinthegamenow. Wehavetoknowthematchup.ListofPosts.RODO #608 6/27/2015NessandLucasareIMOtwoofthehardestmatchupsforPika. Sheik,Diddy,RosaandLuigidontreallybothermenearasmuch.phili #588 6/20/2015Ithinktheworddocumentisright. SheikisprobablythehardestassheisprobablytheonlycharacterthatstraightupwinsneutralagainstPikachu.OHobbit #511 5/26/2015Toedguardsheikyouneedtohitherbeforeoraftervanish. Ifshehasnojump,trytohitherwiththunderjoltbeforesheup-b. Ifyouhitherthismightbeenoughtokillher.Youalsocanedguardherbyhitingslightlyundertheledgebeforesheappears. Youcantryathunderjolt,thunder,skullbash,bair,nair... really,youcantryeverything,butthetimingisreallystrict. Ithinkyouhaveonlyoneframetohitherthatway,solonghitboxcomeinhand.Rideae #510 5/26/2015ForaSheikyoucantryjusthittingherwithanairbeforeshevanishes. Youllhavetoreaditabitbutitsstillpossible.Matchups Sheik 54Hell-dew #508 5/26/2015(answeringaquestionaskingwhattodoagainstcharacterswithinvincibleupbs)ShiekijusttossjoltsatTBHorgofortheoneframeledgevulnerability[FBC]ESAM #496 5/20/2015ImassumingyoucanPerfectPivotforwardandu-tiltitsinceitwill messuptheirspacingiftheyaretryingtohityou.qed #495 5/20/2015ESAM,yousaidontwitteryouguredoutthematchupagainstSheik,so... howcanwebeather,whatdowedoagainstherSHFairinparticularandhowgooddoyouthinkthematchupisoverall?Megamang #428 5/6/2015Anyonehaveanyshiekadvice?Mybasicthoughtonthematchupisstaylow,becauseshieksaerialsdontworksowellonacrouchingpikachu. Also,tryandgetakillearlywhile denying hera killuntilverylate percents (I havetrouble withthis as pika). I dontreallyknowmuchelsebecauseIdonthaveanyshiekpracticepartners.[FBC]ESAM #250 4/16/2015AggressivezoningisprettyannoyingforPikatodealwith,whichiswhySheikandYoshiarethe2mostdicultMUsforpikaIMO.However,whenPikachudoesgetinhecandoa lot of damage to both of these characters and can manipulate the stage to his advantagereallywell.Hoenn #230 4/9/2015YoucanwatchmysetsvsAkiroifyouwantpikachuvssheikvidsIlabthatmatchupsupersupersuperhardbecauseIwanttobeathimIwilllinkthemallhereonceIndthemallVideoHere(laggystreambutafewgoodgamesoffootageplusmebothtakingagameandplayingterribleingame5)Akirotookagameo6wxandm2k,sothisisaveryhighlevelsheik,butIkeepthegamesprettyclose. ItisaveryhardmatchupthoughHell-dew #228 4/8/2015WithshiekijustgolookatwhatNakatdidtoMrRHell-dew #118 2/10/2015K ima restart me actaully posting here cause ive been in the lab on a lot of things levelingupandthelikeMatchups Sheik 55iwasplayingMasterravenssheikaswellasafewothersheiksatAPexithinkthatMUisanegative1ora40-60atworst. thatsaidthatMUisverynotfunbutitsmorethenwinnable. shiekscrapkillmovesandourannoyingsizeandmobilitymakethatMUannoyingforherpluswehavesignicantlybetterkilloptionsthensheikdoesbutshebeatsusintheneutral. hardestthingaboutthatMUisgettinginyougetinyoubeatthecrapoutofher. youwillhavetouseeverytoolinthebooktogetinthoughcauseherhitboxesingeneralbeatoursintheheadtoheadIEjoltisreallymehinthisMUcauseneedlesjustwinFaircantchallengeherfairlikeatall(unlessthesheiksuckshardatspacing)butyoucanattackherwithitifshesgrounded. get