Nutmeg Oil + Mace

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Nutmeg Oil + MaceCategories > Nutmeg Oil (Myristica fragrans) (public)Page 1 · 21–20 Newer ⇒

dazefacenovice - member41 postspermalink

I'm going to an all night rave this weekend and thought that Nutmeg Oil and Mace would be a nice legal combination to help keep me going all night - myproblem is that I'm unable to test out this combo to see how well it works before the rave so opinions/experiences would be appreciated.

Dose wise we're looking at a tablespoon of Mace (not too much as I'm not looking for much body load) and a capsule containing at least 20 drops ofNutmeg oil. I'll be eating eggs & almonds throughout the day to get as much choline/lysine/arginine in me as possible.

I'm wondering whether I should dose the two simultaneously; would that much Mace be enough to effectively activate the Nutmeg oil? Or would it be bestto have the Mace first, followed later by inhibitors and then the Nutmeg oil 30mins later.

I ask because in the past I have found the inhibitors to mess too much with whole Nutmeg & Mace - their effects seem stronger when unaltered (althougha tablespoon of tabasco at the peak always produces lovely euphoria!)

replyquote16 January 2013 07:07 PM

twistersuperstar - privileged member227 postspermalink

Nice idea. I like this approach. Nutmeg oil has pretty clean effects, but needs inhibitors/activators to help it work better. It doesn't work for somepeople. Mace has its own inhibitors/activators right in it. I'm curious how this works out.



Nutmeg Oil + Mace http://herbs.maxforum.org/2013/01/16/nutmeg-oil-mace/

1 of 15 20/03/2013 8:47 PM

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Yeah I'm very well aware of how the two work separately, but my question is whether it the Mace would be enough to activate the Oil or whether I shouldinhibit the Oil separately or alongside the Mace.

If no one has any experience with which option is best then I'm going to go with what I perceive as the safest option and dose the mace, followed byaniseed eo, 1200mg folic acid and 1000mg echinacea tablet and 1500mg Glucosamine Sulphate as soon as the Mace hits me - followed by the Nutmeg EO& an additional 1500mg Glucosamine thirty minutes later.


psychoadventurerregular - member103 postspermalink

I have used these together with 2.5 grams of nutmeg and about 20 drops of nutmeg oil with 5 drops transdermaly. And it increased the body load by a lotbut it wasn't psychedelic like the visuals and out of body experiences that Hendrix gets.


69ronfanatic - moderator1674 postspermalink

Dazeface, this is something I have often thought of trying but haven't gotten around to it. I love nutmeg oil, but the effects last too long, so I don't do it allthat often.

I think the mace alone will activate the oil. But I have not tested that.

1 single 1500 mg tablet of glucosamine is more than enough to enhance the effects for many hours I found. I haven't found any time frame to be optimalfor it. It seems to work if you predose, or take it after the effects have already started.

CYP2C9 inducers are best predosed for allylbenzenes. I don't know the optimal time frame though. Induction is always slower than inhibition.

Are you using echinacea mostly to activate allylbenzenes? You're using this as an inhibitor right? Inhibitors shouldn't be used too far in advance. Someinhibitors lose their inhibition within 30 minutes. Some last many hours. This varies a lot. I usually take the inhibitors with the allylbenzenes because it'smore convenient. But it's sometimes a bit less effective that way. I found for most inhibitors a 15-30 minute predose is good.



I have used these together with 2.5 grams of nutmeg and about 20 drops of nutmeg oil with 5 drops transdermaly. And it increased the bodyload by a lot but it wasn't psychedelic like the visuals and out of body experiences that Hendrix gets.

-psychoadventurer

I forget, can you get psychedelic effects from nutmeg oil on its own like I can?


dazeface


2 of 15 20/03/2013 8:47 PM

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novice - member41 postspermalink

I have used these together with 2.5 grams of nutmeg and about 20 drops of nutmeg oil with 5 drops transdermaly. And it increased the bodyload by a lot but it wasn't psychedelic like the visuals and out of body experiences that Hendrix gets.

-psychoadventurer

Did you use L-lysine as well? I find that it seems to almost negate the body load of Nutmeg/Mace but not always.

Thanks 69ron, In that case I'll stick with using inhibitors before the Nutmeg oil - I don't want to risk a failed activation. I'll try this again another week andsee whether the Mace is enough to effectively activate the oil. I'll also half the Glucosamine dose, and drop my folic acid + star anise eo about 50 minutesbefore the Nutmeg Oil.Yes I am using echinacea as an inhibitor, I tend to drop it a little earlier (usually -0.40) than my other inhibitors, as the tablets I have are made withmicrocrystaline cellulose and thus will take a little while longer to absorb but fortunately it should always be absorbed in the intestines.

replyquote18 January 2013 04:53 AM

twistersuperstar - privileged member227 postspermalink

How is echinacea working out for you? In what way does it affect the trip?



It's hard to say because I've not yet tried Nutmeg Oil without it, and I've not yet tried Mace or Nutmeg with it. So I'm not sure how the Oil affects mesingly, or how it will interact with Mace/Nutmeg which have a broader spectrum of constituents.

The only reason I use it is because it's a cheap and potent inhibitor that hits several enzymes. It works, but because I haven't compared it to anything else Ican't say how well, plus I always take it with other inhibitors and inducers.


powerfulmedicinesuperstar - moderator276 postspermalink

All that I have to add to this discussion is that mixing around 2mL of nutmeg essential oil into 30g of freshly ground Indonesian nutmeg did not seem tomake it any stronger than 30g without the essential oil.

My guess is that since the oil was just mixed into the nutmeg paste, it must have easily separated from the ground nutmeg and was metabolized withoutactivation.

So it would probably be better to time it so that the effects of the oil begin at the same time as the mace. But this is only if you are not taking it withinhibitors. But if you take it with inhibitors and time it so that the effects of the oil and whole nutmeg start together, the whole nutmeg might help toactivate the oil.

__________________All hail King Neptune and his water breathers!!!! maayyonaaaze!


3 of 15 20/03/2013 8:47 PM

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My bad. This is the "matrix" effect at play. I forgot about that! The compounds in the ground nutmeg or mace will take longer to digest than the essentialoil because they are trapped in a matrix of compounds. So the essential oil, not being bound in a solid matrix, will be digested before most of thecompounds in the ground nutmeg or mace.

So yes, you will have to take the ground mace before taking the oil (unless you are like me and can effects from nutmeg oil alone). I keep forgetting aboutthe matrix effect. THIS NEARLY ALWAYS APPLIES!



I forget, can you get psychedelic effects from nutmeg oil on its own like I can?

-69ron

The most psychedelic effect I have gotten from nutmeg oil so far was a time when I was lying in my bed and holding onto the bedpost then my ears rang,(this is a recurring indication of psychedelic experience for me) I closed my eyes and it began to wobble all over the place like gelo then it would onlybreath with me and this eventually stopped. That sums it up.replyquote18 January 2013 06:13 PM


Did you use L-lysine as well? I find that it seems to almost negate the body load of Nutmeg/Mace but not always.

-dazeface

Nope during that time of my nutmeg experimentation I would only use turmeric, black pepper and nutmeg.replyquote18 January 2013 06:14 PM

hendrixsuperstar - privileged member646 postspermalink

Did you like using turmeric with nutmeg? Turmeric makes nutmeg more stoning and less psychedelic when I use it. Its nice if I want the stoning effect.

A lot of people use black pepper. On another forum a guy says whole black pepper powder (not tea) makes ground nutmeg psychedelic. He says withoutblack pepper its not psychedelic. I don't remember him saying how much he used. I think he just said something like "a few grams".

About 2 grams of whole black pepper is pretty good with nutmeg. Higher doses aren't good.


4 of 15 20/03/2013 8:47 PM

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My experience has shown that using small doses of many different inhibitors at once is way more efficacious than using larger doses of a few potentinhibitors. It also effects the trip less.

Too much black pepper gives me the melatonin effect with elemicin. Sometimes I feel it with nutmeg (it contains elemicin too, not just myristicin). But themelatonin effect wears off after a few hours and everything works great then. Black pepper never kills the effects. It helps. But too much causes a delayedaction.

Black pepper also has its own effects. I tried 5 grams on its own. I can feel it.

When I use multiple small doses of many different inhibitors I feel the inhibitors less and they are more effective. I get a cleaner experience from theallylbenzenes that way.

For example, almond extract (benzaldehyde) works great to inhibit CYP2A6 and CYP2B4. But the effects you get from the benzaldehyde are prettystrong. It's better to low the dose and mix it with another CYP2A6 inhibitor. If the two inhibitors work differently to inhibit the same enzyme they willpotentiate each other a lot. For example, it's good to mix mechanism based inhibitors with competitive inhibitors. They boost each other's effects a lotusually.

I think one reason things like Space Paste work so well is cause they use multiple inhibitors, not just a few. This way your body gets bombarded with bothmechanism based and competitive based inhibitors.

__________________Between the eyes and ears there lieThe sounds of colour and the light of a sighreplyquote18 January 2013 08:02 PM


I have had one high dose of black pepper by itself and I felt the melatonin effect with it. I finally understand what the melatonin effect feels like! Yeahhaha if I'm using some nutmeg then take small doses of a bunch of herbs it always gets stronger. But when I take a shit ton of different herbs I forget whatI have used.



I have had one high dose of black pepper by itself and I felt the melatonin effect with it. I finally understand what the melatonin effect feelslike!

-psychoadventurer

I can easily reproduce the melatonin effect with 5 or more grams of black paper taken orally (not as tea). I feel it for a few hours. That's without anythingelse added to it.

The melatonin effect black pepper causes is weaker than a failed elemicin trip, but pretty much identical to it. I would like to know why it has the sameeffect as a failed elemicin trip.


powerfulmedicinesuperstar - moderator276 postspermalink


5 of 15 20/03/2013 8:47 PM

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I can easily reproduce the melatonin effect with 5 or more grams of black paper taken orally (not as tea). I feel it for a few hours. That'swithout anything else added to it.

-69ron

This is off topic, but are you saying that black pepper alone causes sedative effects in your body? Because for me, large quantities of black pepper aremildly but distinctly stimulant and produce a mood lift and sometimes even a little euphoria. Or did you mean black pepper with Elemicin produces thiseffect?

__________________All hail King Neptune and his water breathers!!!! maayyonaaaze!replyquote20 January 2013 12:33 AM


I had very good effects from my experiment on Friday. I had several peanut butter sandwiches that day, as well as an egg sandwich, loads of brazil nuts,almonds and walnuts as well as at least 50grams of seasame seeds. The idea there was to get as much arginine, lysine and choline into my body aspossible. I had a tablespoon of ground Mace two hours after I ate all the nuts and within an hour it hit me - normally Mace takes about 3 hours to manifestso this was a complete surprise.

I had a great mix of effects off the Mace alone (I did have a very small amount of black pepper, around a gram, if not less, about 30mins before dosage), ifI take 1000mg of L-lysine with Mace the effects seem quite hollow, but on Friday I had great sharpening of vision + trails, slight visuals when focusing,and decent body effects, not quite stoning but not incredibly stimulating, a good balance between the two. I took nutmeg oil about 5 hours later and itmarkedly increased the visuals, and they became very obvious, little dots of coloured light everywhere.

I have to say that preloading all that protein probably made the biggest difference. I will make this part of my nutmeg routine and see how it effects theoils alone.



This is off topic, but are you saying that black pepper alone causes sedative effects in your body?

-powerfulmedicine

Yes. At 5 grams or more I get an effect from black pepper that's identical to the "melatonin effect" that elemicin can cause when it fails to activateproperly.

That's using black pepper orally. Nothing else is used with it. No coffee. No allylbenzenes. Nothing else.

It causes the same "melatonin effect" elemicin can cause when it fails to activate. At lower doses I don't get that effect. I need 5 or more grams to get thateffect. I also need to use the whole powder. If I make a tea from it, then I don't get that effect, even a tea made from 10 grams won't cause it. Whatevercauses it is not very water soluble. It could be one of the essential oils present in black pepper that causes it.

If used with elemicin, 5 grams orally will also cause elemicin to produce it's "melatonin effect" instead of psychedelic effects for about 2-3 hours. Andthen after that elemicin becomes psychedelic.


6 of 15 20/03/2013 8:47 PM

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Because for me, large quantities of black pepper are mildly but distinctly stimulant and produce a mood lift and sometimes even a littleeuphoria.

-powerfulmedicine

I get no stimulant effects at all from black pepper. I don't much like the effect I get. It's not really a sedative effect. It's effects are like melatonin whichisn't exactly a sedative. I feel cloudy, like I didn't sleep right, I feel slow, by I'm not actually slow. I might yawn but I don't feel sleepy. No matter howmuch coffee I drink, the coffee never stimulates me during the "melatonin effect". Whatever it is, it blocks the effects of stimulants. It makes me feel"muted" as if my electrical impulses aren't firing all the way. It's hard to describe. It's similar to melatonin, but not the same. It's more unpleasant thanmelatonin, but feels similar.

Or did you mean black pepper with Elemicin produces this effect?

-powerfulmedicine

No. I does it on its own. But it also causes elemicin to produce it's own melatonin effect when used with it at doses of 5 grams or more.



I had very good effects from my experiment on Friday. I had several peanut butter sandwiches that day, as well as an egg sandwich, loads ofbrazil nuts, almonds and walnuts as well as at least 50grams of seasame seeds. The idea there was to get as much arginine, lysine and cholineinto my body as possible.

-dazeface

I have always found that a peanut butter sandwich helps a lot. I assumed it was the oils in it helping to digest the allylbenzenes. Peanut butter is high inarginine, lysine, and also has quite a bit of choline. So that could also be helping.

I plant to try arginine supplementation soon.

I had a tablespoon of ground Mace two hours after I ate all the nuts and within an hour it hit me - normally Mace takes about 3 hours tomanifest so this was a complete surprise.

-dazeface

What do you think made it come on faster?

replyquote21 January 2013 05:58 AMCategories > Nutmeg Oil (Myristica fragrans) (public)Page 1 · 21–20 Newer ⇒

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Nutmeg Oil + Mace