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Toolbox.com Live Chat

The A to Z of Desktop Virtualization

with Microsoft

Transcript of original session on March 25, 2010

Sponsored by:

Microsoft

Toolbox.com Live Chat - The A to Z of Desktop Virtualization

About the Live Chat

With so much noise about desktop virtualization in the market today, come meet some of Microsoft’s

experts in desktop virtualization and discuss how your organization can benefit from deploying desktop

virtualization technologies. Join the Live Chat with Aanal Bhatt, VDI Solutions Marketing Manager,

Microsoft Virtualization and System Center, and Scott Woodgate, Director, Microsoft Windows and

Enterprise Management, to find out how these products from Microsoft can help you to save costs, and

add more flexibility, better management and security in your Enterprise.

About Aanal Bhatt & Scott Woodgate

Aanal Bhatt is the VDI Solutions Marketing Manager within the Server and Tools Division. She has been

with Microsoft for 6+ years, starting on the Dynamics CRM team for the first 2 yrs. She has had a variety

of roles since joining Server & Tools, breadth channel strategy for SBS/EBS and Channel Development

for Infrastructure Server solutions. Aanal has recently joined the System Center and Virtualization team

to drive Virtual Desktop Infrastructure (VDI) marketing, including broad customer awareness and

campaigns, partner readiness and strategy, field marketing and sales orchestration. Prior to joining

Microsoft, Aanal worked for Citrix Systems, Inc. for 5 years.

Scott Woodgate is a director in Windows responsible for virtualization strategy and the MDOP product.

His team is responsible for all aspects of virtualization product management including product planning,

awareness & licensing. Scott has almost 10 years’ experience at Microsoft both within Windows and the

Server & Tools Product Management division where he worked on BizTalk Server and the Windows

Workflow Foundation technologies.

About Microsoft

Microsoft provides an end-to-end suite of virtualization products and technologies — all tied together by a

centralized management system. Desktop Virtualization offers new and powerful opportunities for IT to

deliver and manage corporate desktops and to respond to various user needs in a flexible way.

Virtualized desktops can be either client-hosted or centralized on servers in the data center—often

referred to as a virtual desktop infrastructure (VDI).


Moderator: Thank you for joining today’s chat. We will be starting in a few minutes.

Moderator: Hello, everyone. Thank you for participating in ―The A to Z of Desktop Virtualization with

Microsoft‖ chat today. My name is Brad Denny, Community Development Specialist. As the moderator of

this chat session, I’m here to facilitate the flow of questions and ideas between today’s presenter and all

participating members. Before we get started, please introduce yourself with your name, title and

location.

Aveen: Aveen Muhee, Server administrator, Iraq.

Nick: Nick Pistentis, Associate Director, Information Systems, Washington, DC.

Reena: Hi, I am Reena, a product manager from Arizona.

R. Neal Wilhite: Neal Wilhite - Senior Project Manager - Butterball LLC - Goldsboro, NC.

Iran: Iran Nascimento, Brazil, Security Analyst.

danderle: Darryl Anderle, IT and Accounting, Los Angeles.

Daniel: Hi, Daniel from Arizona.

Gatox: Luis-M Astudillo, IT Enterprise Architect, Montréal, Canada.

David: Dave, PM, NH.

Moderator: Thank you for your introductions. There is one last introduction before we get started. I

would like to introduce Scott Woodgate. Scott Woodgate is a director in Windows responsible for

virtualization strategy and the MDOP product. His team is responsible for all aspects of virtualization

product management including product planning, awareness and licensing. Scott has almost 10 years’

experience at Microsoft both within Windows and the Server & Tools Product Management division

where he worked on BizTalk Server and the Windows Workflow Foundation technologies.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Hi everyone, glad to be here and delighted to answer any questions on

virtualization that are top of mind for you.

Norbert: Account Delivery Manager, GM.

Mark: My name is Mark English (CEO) of MEC, INC. and I am in Sutton, Massachusetts.


Moderator: Now that we know one another a little better, let’s chat about Desktop Virtualization.

Carlos Alperin: Hi, my name is Carlos Alperin, I'm Senior Network Engineer in MI, US. and my question

is how to determine if MS Hypervisor or VMware is better suited as my solution.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): At some level hypervisors are commodities. So I would focus on the end2end

picture rather than just the hypervisor. i.e. the combination of management for virtualization and the

virtualization runtime (i.e. the hypervisor itself).

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Hyper-V differentiates on being included in Windows (i.e. cost effective);

having a management story that is integrated with your existing physical and virtual servers (so there

aren't two management experiences and two sets of training) and at the same time it has the features

you need for availability and up-time.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): If you are using Windows as a workload in a VM you should definitely check

out Hyper-V as many people have found it does what they need for no additional cost.

Benjamin: Could you provide a quick list of advantages of desktop virtualization using Microsoft verses

the use of Citrix for application delivery?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Firstly I think lots of people are confused on what "desktop virtualization‖ is.

We think of desktop virtualization as a set of technologies that virtualize/split apart your user data &

settings, applications and the OS from a specific PC and in so doing save cost or increase flexibility.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): One of those technologies at the OS layer is "VDI" running desktops in

servers.

Moderator: Hi, this is a text only chat. Please feel free to submit any questions you may have.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Two of those technologies at the application layer are application virtualization

(i.e. Microsoft App-V) and remote application delivery technologies like XenApp and RDS RemoteApp.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In comparing the two application technologies for a specific application the

most important question to ask is whether you need the application offline.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): If you need it offline then running on a server won't work and so use Microsoft

App-V on a local PC. For example, deploying Office you would typically deploy to the local PC.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): On the other hand if you have a set of applications that need to be close to

their data in the datacenter and you run always online then they may benefit from running on a server

using XenApp or RDS RemoteApp.


Scott Woodgate(MSFT): that's at the application layer

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In terms of Citrix and Microsoft at the OS level we jointly partner to provide a

VDI solution built on top of HyperV, SystemCenter and XenDesktop.

Carlos Alperin: Do we have a practical experience on workloads limits vs. hardware configs?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Capacity planning is an important part of any server virtualization project.

Where possible using standardized hardware helps as you can more easily add capacity. Obviously each

workload you have will have your own unique level of computing required. For example a SQL database

supporting a web-site is likely a lower tax to the system than a heavy-iron OLTP SQL database.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So it's important to examine your workload and if it's running physically

examine the physical CPU utilization and that will help you get a handle on how much it will use in the

virtual context.

Emerson Beach: What are the advantages of desktop virtualization over a thin client and something like

Terminal Services?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Emerson - I think you are referring to VDI rather than desktop virtualization.

VDI is a component of desktop virtualization at the OS layer.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and I think you are asking to compare VDI with session based desktops

running on Terminal Services.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): VDI is better than session based desktops because it uses "real Windows

client" in VMs as the guest OS and so has a similar level of compatibility and ISV support to when you

run apps on the desktop. It also has better isolation between users which helps if your users need to be

administrators.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Terminal Services is better because it is significantly less expensive from a

CAPEX perspective - storage and memory requirements are much less so the # of users you can

support on a server are much higher. It also works fine for at least 80% of the applications you have.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So if cost is the primary issue then TS sessions are great.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): If compat is the primary issue then VDI is better.

Moderator: Please welcome our other guest speaker for today's chat. Aanal Bhatt is the VDI Solutions


Marketing Manager within the Server and Tools Division. She has been with Microsoft for 6+ years,

starting on the Dynamics CRM team for the first 2 yrs. She has had a variety of roles since joining Server

& Tools, breadth channel strategy for SBS/EBS and Channel Development for Infrastructure Server

solutions. Aanal has recently joined the System Center and Virtualization team to drive Virtual Desktop

Infrastructure (VDI) marketing, including broad customer awareness and campaigns, partner readiness

and strategy, field marketing and sales orchestration. Prior to joining Microsoft, Aanal worked for Citrix

Systems, Inc. for 5 years.

Carlos Alperin: Yes, but we're talking about Desktop Virtualization not Server. How to plan # of Users of

RDP or TS?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Right - Carlos you mean the VDI component of desktop virtualization which is

running desktops on servers I think rather than running server workloads.

Carlos Alperin: Correct.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): For planning capacity on TS/RDS there are some good tools available in the

Windows resource kits.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): From memory, the tools are Roboserver and Roboclient.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and they help you determine the level of usage of the server and understand

your capacity needs.

Carlos Alperin: Thanks

Mark: What is the minimum hardware configuration for desktop virtualization?

Aanal Bhatt: It depends on which desktop solution you’re interested in.

Aanal Bhatt: Microsoft® desktop virtualization encompasses a broad set of solutions that empower

companies to address their unique business, IT, and end user challenges while preserving their existing

IT infrastructure investments.

Aanal Bhatt: Customers new to desktop virtualization may begin by virtualizing applications and user

data to help immediately reduce operational costs and standardize the desktop environment. Upon laying

that foundation, they can then evaluate the desktop virtualization technologies at the OS layer, such as

Virtual Desktop Infrastructure or Session Virtualization. These solutions are particularly valuable for

increasing business flexibility by introducing new deployment methods.


Mark: Once virtualization has been rolled out on the desktop level what increase if any regarding the

utilization of technical services for their company?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Seems like there is a lot of confusion on this chat on what is desktop

virtualization. Some desktop virtualization technologies like application virtualization require limited

additional CAPEX and typically will use the same resources you already have packaging MSI and doing

new things. Other areas like VDI require CAPEX investment and tend to touch on a wide span of the

infrastructure from the desktop footprint, through the firewalls, into the physical servers and the storage.

For VDI the biggest issue in execution in large companies is many teams may need to be involved in the

implementation and need to be orchestrated and in general it is a new way of doing things so there is lots

of learning going on.

Daniel: What would be the best approach to providing Video Conferencing, using VM. We are looking at

PCoIP.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): There are really two issues here - one is voice and the other is audio. When

they are combined (VOIP) the problem is a challenging physics problem.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): For video - we just announced RemoteFX. RemoteFX is in the same class of

technologies as PCoIP. We acquired a company in 2008 called Callista that was best in class and have

been building on top of their original technologies

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): RemoteFX enables a "full fidelity" graphics experience in a LAN environment

by using a GPU on the server and then sending the screen output including all 3d graphics and motion

video to any end-point PC or thin-client.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): It is a more open ecosystem than PCoIP and Citrix has already signed up for

it.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So RemoteFX, which will be part of Windows Server 2008 R2 SP1, for use

with Hyper-V is definitely something you should look at.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Having said that the VOIP scenario (bidirectional audio) is very hard to do in

the context of a VDI environment, Office Communicator doesn't support the scenario because the

latency that is introduced by running Windows and communicator in the datacenter (and a long way

away from the PC/client) results in poor quality.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): I'm not aware of great solutions to the VOIP issue today because the problem

is basically a physics/latency one and unlike in the PC case where the phone and the software to run the

phone are in the same spot (on your PC) the phone and the software to run the phone are in different

spots with VDI making this a hard thing to do. So VOIP is probably a workload you should consider


running locally on PCs rather than in VDI environments.

Carlos Alperin: Do you have any comparative products with VMware ESXi 4.0?

Philip: GPU?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Philip - with RemoteFX you install a graphics card on the server and the

graphics card's GPU (graphics processing unit) is used to do the rendering.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): On www.desktopvirtualizationhour.com in the keynote you can see us

demonstrating RemoteFX using a server with an Nvidia quadro card in it.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): It's pretty cool - fluid video and full 3d graphics.

Aanal Bhatt: Yes, we have Hyper-V which is available both as a feature within Windows Server 2008 R2

and as a standalone product. Additionally, we also have integrated management products in our System

Center line that allow you to manage both your physical and virtual environments from a single console.

Aanal Bhatt: You can learn more here: http://www.microsoft.com/virtualization/en/us/products-

server.aspx

Mark: What do end users feel about their experiences regarding desktop virtualization?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Once again - I think you mean VDI because the end-user experience for

application virtualization is pretty incredible. For application virtualization users go from having to give

their PCs to IT professional to install applications and lost time to being able to stream an application

directly into their PC and run it. For a comparison - without application virtualization it takes 30 minutes to

install Office as admin; with it takes 15 seconds and it just runs.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So for VDI specifically - we have seen early adopters using it more for

contractors and offshorers.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): VDI is always connected - so it doesn't work at all for users that have laptops

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So from an end-user perspective it's about choosing the right use-cases.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Also in certain company environments IT needs to support compliance may be

higher priority than pure end user experience.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Whereas in other companies the reverse is true.

http://www.microsoft.com/virtualization/en/us/products-server.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/virtualization/en/us/products-server.aspx


Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So there really isn't a single answer. I would start with contractors or offshorers

because the business case is strongest there.

Mark: I believe for any successful migration; upgrade or any major change for the end user they need to

be on-board with the project . So, what have companies done for training and strategies to assist end

users?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): I think that's true. Similarly to my last answer I think the first thing is identifying

the right end-users and getting buy-in to the approach. For VDI if you have a poor network environment

or end-users with laptops then I wouldn't recommend it. If you have call centers and offshorers and want

to centralize the data for security reasons and yet have good bandwidth it's a fine use-case.

Moderator: If you have any questions, feel free to submit them and the speaker will get to them shortly.

Palavesam: What are the different functionalities and advantages of Desktop Virtualization?

Aanal Bhatt: Microsoft’s comprehensive portfolio of desktop virtualization technologies – from

Application Virtualization to VDI – helps customers deploy Windows 7 as part of their broader

management strategies.

Aanal Bhatt: Microsoft desktop virtualization offerings give companies the flexibility to support their

mobile workers by allowing them to access their data from any authorized PC, at any time – enabling a

user experience that appears local.

Aanal Bhatt: The key solutions we have are User State Virtualization, Application Virtualization, Virtual

Desktop Infrastructure & Session Virtualization.

Aanal Bhatt: You can learn more about each of them here:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/enterprise/solutions/virtualization/default.aspx

Charlotte: We are just beginning with virtualization and have a limited budget. How do you suggest we

start?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): VDI (running desktops on servers) does have a significant capital investment

so if you are on a limited budget you might want to think of other desktop virtualization technologies.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): The technology I would implement first in desktop virtualization (which works

great in VDI or on PCs or on laptops) is application virtualization

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and the reason is pretty simple. Customers who have implemented application

virtualization have time and time again saved money.



Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In fact, a recent study we did showed they save on average $82/PC

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and that's annually.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So what is application virtualization? It solves application to application

conflicts within Windows by virtualization.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Today most IT Pros building Windows images and adding new applications to

them need to test a new application versus all the existing applications.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): It's this big matrix and is expensive (Swedish hospital as an example used to

take 3 months to roll out an app while it was tested)

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): But with application virtualization we put a bubble around the application so it

doesn't conflict with other applications

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): So applications that wouldn't normally install on the same PC work great side

by side. Things like two versions of Office on one PC - can't do it without app virt - can with app virt.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Or two applications that require specific java runtime environments - same

issue fixed with app virt.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): More importantly no longer do you test against a matrix - rather you test

against the app virtualization runtime so in Swedish's case it went from 3 months to 3 days.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): big savings

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): The other cool thing about application virtualization is that it changes the install

paradigm.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Historically when an end-user needed a new application they often had to give

their PC to IT

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): lots of productivity down-time.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): With application virtualization you call the helpdesk - they add the application

into your active directory policy

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and you immediately get icons for those applications on the desktop.


Moderator: To cut through the hype, how does Microsoft define desktop virtualization and VDI?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and the application streams into the user’s desktop and just runs.

Aanal Bhatt: Microsoft has a broad portfolio of solutions for desktop virtualization, with VDI or Virtual

Desktop Infrastructure being one of them

Aanal Bhatt: We believe that all customers looking at Windows 7 migration should consider User State

Virtualization, which includes Roaming Profiles & Folder Redirection as well Application Virtualization.

Aanal Bhatt: All customers should also evaluate VDI and Session Virtualization, formerly known as

Terminal Services but it may not be the right solution for every desktop.

Aanal Bhatt: VDI & Session Virtualization are great solutions for connected users & some of the

common use cases we have seen are task workers, regulatory compliance and remote users with good

connectivity.

abdullah: Does the centralized virtualization return us back to mainframe systems and all their

disadvantages?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): VDI specifically is very similar to the old mainframe concept and has similar

challenges albeit technologies like networking have improved. However you can create a hybrid

environment on your PCs and Laptops where the "truth" lives on the server and your PC has a "copy".

This is actually a big benefit because you get the decentralized benefits of PCs and Laptops with

improved application and user&data settings business continuity.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): For example if I lost my laptop - I could rapidly get the apps and my data back

if I used user state virtualization and application virtualization.

danderle: For my QuickBooks virtualization scenario (asked earlier), I am looking to have people hit the

virtual boxes across the Internet. They will not necessarily be local. I currently have an extra PC or two

running in the office and hit with LogMeIn or SBS Remote.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Danderle - I think your scenario is running QuickBooks on a server so that

other people in your company can get access to it through remote technologies. Traditional terminal

services (now called RDS) is really good at this scenario. What’s more, in the latest versions you can put

a QuickBooks icon on the desktop of your users. When they click on it - it launches and runs on the

server and all the user sees is the QuickBooks windows instead of what we did historically which is a full

desktop.

danderle: Is this built into SBS 2008?


Aanal Bhatt: Yes, Terminal Services or RDS is built into SBS 2008. It’s supported with SBS 2008

Premium Edition. You do need to purchase separate RDS CALS.

Anthony Pusateri: What kind of performance implications are there to consider with Virtualized

Desktops?

Mark: Sounds like desktop virtualization will increase network utilization, of course, depending on what

you are virtualizing. What overall increase in network utilization occurs and what ports are required to run

VDI?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): These are related questions. Performance in a VDI context is a little more

complex than a typical PC because of the number of moving parts--from the device through the firewall

through to the servers and then to the storage--versus all within one device.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): The two most important issues are quality of network and outside of reliability

and available bandwidth the biggest issue is latency

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): because people like to see when they type on the keyboard those key strokes

being reflected on the monitor - so if you have good latency it really helps otherwise it can appear not as

responsive

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): The other area to be careful on is server capacity to run the VDI desktops.

Because VDI has higher CAPEX than PCs often people don't invest as much as they should on the

server hardware side.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): This can be problematic in terms of meeting peak capacity requirements or

when particular users are using more CPU in the shared environment than you expected.

Ahmed: We are planning to build a new data center for our company, so I need more details in desktop

virtualization regarding the hardware (mainframe and client).

Aanal Bhatt: The hardware costs including how many servers required will depend on which desktop

virtualization solution is right for your environment. Solutions like VDI or Session Virtualization require

more servers in the data center vs. Application Virtualization or User State Virtualization will not have as

much impact.

Aanal Bhatt: You can learn more about our desktop virtualization solutions here:


Moderator: If you have any questions, feel free to submit them and the speakers will get to them shortly.



William: Is there a plan to have Hyper V on itanium 64bit cpu?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): We have not announced plans to support Hyper-V on this chip architecture.

Greg: We have begun testing with Hyper V a few months ago. Frankly, it works well, however, I do have

a question with regards to it. Most shops, like ours, are using a combination of Microsoft, MAC, Linux and

UNIX servers. Like most people, in order to really take Microsoft’s virtualization plan seriously

(specifically in comparison to VMware), we need to be convinced it will cooperate other OSs specifically

Linux and MACs. I was hoping when R2’s Hyper V emerged, it would handle more OSs, but that wasn’t

the case. Can we expect to see more integration with MAC and Linux OSs, especially with mainstream

kernels?

Aanal Bhatt: Microsoft supports a number of guest OS environments including Windows Server 2008

R2, Windows Server 2008, Windows Server 2003, Windows 2000 Server, Windows 7, Windows Vista,

Windows XP and Novell SUSE. For the complete list of operating systems that will be supported with

Hyper-V, please refer to http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-supported-guest-

os.aspx

Santosh: What are the major advantages of DV with Microsoft??

Aanal Bhatt: First of all, Microsoft has a comprehensive portfolio of DV solutions so you can choose the

right solution based on your customer scenario.

Aanal Bhatt: Secondly, you can leverage existing technology investments you have already made to

obtain the benefits on Desktop Virtualization.

Aanal Bhatt: Solutions such as User State Virtualization & Application Virtualization (which we believe

are something that every customer should take advantage of) enable you to access your data, user

settings and applications from anywhere.

Aanal Bhatt: Another big advantage of Microsoft's DV solutions is Integrated Management - you can

manage both your physical & virtual assets from the datacenter to the desktop from a single console with

our System Center technologies

Aanal Bhatt: Net net, you can get cost savings by leveraging the technology you already own and with

simplified management while having the flexibility that you need by choosing the right solution for the

right scenario.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Btw - back to the Linux support as of the 2.6.32 kernel release of Linux (which

was in rc8 last I looked) users will be able to build kernel modules that support Hyper-V as the Hyper-V

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-supported-guest-os.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-supported-guest-os.aspx


drivers were accepted by the Linux community.

Daniel: What would be the best resource for looking at the cost associated with virtual licensing from

server to client?

Aanal Bhatt: Just correcting the url earlier:


Scott Woodgate(MSFT): On licensing there are client scenarios and server scenarios

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): For VDI we just simplified our licensing.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): If you have PCs covered with software assurance or an enterprise agreement

you can just do it without additional licensing from a Windows perspective.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): If you want to use our server and management infrastructure (HyperV, System

Center, XenDesktop) then the license is the combination of the VDI Suite and XenDesktop.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): If you have thin-clients instead of PCs there is a VDA license available.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): For application virtualization

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): that's included as part of MDOP which is a nominal fee in additional to

software assurance on your PC and your company may already own it - so it's worth asking if you don't

know.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): That's the primary client scenarios.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): For server - it's a matter of which version of server to choose

Chandrasekaran: Will the desktop Virtualization techniques be useful and effective in academic

institutions for handling practical classes?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In academic institutions there are two technologies to think about.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): The first is VDI where you can run virtual labs and have users remote into

those labs from remote locations.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): The second is application virtualization where you can load the software onto

PCs such as the students PCs and use the local computing power.



Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Both provide benefits over traditional lab environments in terms of scaling

computing power to a larger group of students.

Sandra: If you could only give one reason and your media for broadcasting your reason was Twitter,

what would your message be? (In other words, in 140 characters, why should I virtualize?)

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Please wait we are counting words ;)

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Do application virtualization first on the desktop because it saves you money

and delivers apps faster w/o installs

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): or in twitter-ese "Do app virt first cause it saves $ and delivers apps faster w/o

installs" ;)

Aanal Bhatt: and my twitter-ese response would be "Improve security and compliance, business

continuity, enable anywhere access & reduce TCO"

Chandrasekaran: Does Microsoft Campus Agreement include Hyper V and the number of Virtual server

Licenses and Application Licenses?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): On the desktop side with CASA + MDOP you can use application virtualization

and also do VDI.

Chandrasekaran: Being a Microsoft Academic Alliance Partner Institution, will someone come to handle

some training to our staff and students at least for a day?

Aanal Bhatt: Are you looking for a local Microsoft partner to deliver training? If so, absolutely you should

be able to find a local partner by visiting this website: http://www.microsoft.com/servers/findpartner.mspx

Ray: I’m somewhat of a novice at this; I want to know more about virtualization with Windows 7. I am

running Windows Server 2008 Standard on MS Virtual PC on Vista pro. Can that be done on Win 7?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): This is a typical developer use-case. With Windows 7 we have Windows

Virtual PC http://www.microsoft.com/virtualpc

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): You'll want to turn on hardware virtualization on your PC (if you are a

developer, no need if you aren't) and then you can absolutely run Windows Server 2008 Std as a guest

and do development in it.

Moderator: How does desktop virtualization benefit from Citrix?

http://www.microsoft.com/servers/findpartner.mspx

http://www.microsoft.com/virtualpc


Aanal Bhatt: For customers that need more scalable VDI solutions with multiple locations, need WAN

connectivity to their virtual desktops, we strongly recommend that those customers deploy Microsoft VDI

Suites along with Citrix XenDesktop.

Aanal Bhatt: Other considerations to deploy Citrix XenDesktop with Microsoft VDI Suites are if you have

multiple desktop pools or need higher availability and failover for the connection broker.

Moderator: Hi everyone, we're a little over halfway through the chat, so please feel free to continue

submitting any questions for Scott and Aanal.

Vivian: How can virtualization help integrate an online school and a manufacturer both aiming towards

"green" environmentally friendly standards?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Certainly VDI is interesting for on-line student learning. On the green-front it's

pretty much a wash. You might use less power for PCs on the desktops if you use thin-clients but you'll

use more power in the datacenter

Arturo: Besides the administration costs and all other related costs, does a virtual PC have the same

performance as a "regular" one?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): You are right that the cost dynamics are different. CAPEX is more expensive

for VDI. The performance characteristics are also different. On a PC a user has the full CPU to

themselves and the graphics experience is local as is the audio experience. In VDI there is a shared

CPU experience with a remote graphics and audio. The PC performance of a modern PC will likely be

better - the question isn't really an absolute one though you should ask whether VDI is "just good

enough" so that the benefits of centralization are worth it to you for the users you implement it for.

Thaera: We are currently running Xen virtualization, is there any issue with upgrading images from Win

XP to Win7? Any known issues? Any recommendations for smooth upgrade?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): I’m not exactly sure which "Xen virtualization you mean". If it is XenApp for

applications then you can continue using that and Citrix's latest version supports Windows 7.

abiodun: What is the first step towards VDI implementation for an SME? Do you have a number on cost

saving via VDI implementation?

Aanal Bhatt: The first step before you start your VDI implementation is to understand your use case

scenario in more detail. Key considerations are going to be data center upgrade, user experience and

application performance. Once you've determined it’s the right solution, say you need it for contractors or

bring your own PC scenarios or remote users with good connectivity or for security and compliance

reasons, here's a good blog post to get you started on understanding VDI architecture and technical


requirements: http://blogs.technet.com/deploymentguys/archive/2008/09/01/virtual-desktop-

infrastructure-vdi.aspx

Aanal Bhatt: for VDI cost savings, we're about to release a TCO study, should be available early to mid-

April. Based on what we've seen so far, VDI brings good TCO for certain scenarios such as task workers

or contractor PCs but that may not be the case for the traditional knowledge worker scenario. Once the

TCO study is complete, it will be available on this site:


Patricia: Please discuss your support for mobile/disconnected desktop users.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Support for mobile/disconnected users is critical. Those users are not good

targets for VDI. On the other hand, other desktop virtualization technologies can help them a ton. In

particular with user&data settings virtualization you can store their important documents on servers so

they are not lost in case of laptop failure or theft and similarly with application virtualization you can give

them streamed access to applications and yet both application virtualization and user&data settings

virtualization work 100% offline with no need for connectivity.

Senthil: How does Desktop Virtualization help for small business/ entrepreneur class users?

Aanal Bhatt: Desktop Virtualization can have several benefits for small businesses. A couple important

ones I'd like to point out: say it’s time for a hardware refresh and you need to buy new Windows 7 PCs

but you have legacy applications that can only run on Windows XP - you can use Windows XP Mode, a

new feature with Windows 7 to run 2 operating systems on the same PC. What this means is that you

can buy a new Windows 7 PC right away and run all your apps and data on it. On the same PC you can

also run Windows XP which will run the legacy application. All this would be seamless to the end user.

Aanal Bhatt: Another important technology for small businesses is Remote Desktop Services. This

comes with Windows Server and enables remote connectivity to user data and applications from

anywhere. All you need is an internet connection.

Moderator: Hi everyone, there is one hour left in today's chat. Please submit your questions so we can

get to as many as possible during this final hour.

David: What are the competitive products for desktop virtualization and comparative strengths and

weaknesses.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Within desktop virtualization broadly (including applications, user&data

settings and OSs) Microsoft's first approach is to recognize that virtualization is a component of

management and people will have physical and virtual servers, desktops, applications etc. and yet need

to be able to manage them from a single integrated management experience. So key to our strategy

http://blogs.technet.com/deploymentguys/archive/2008/09/01/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-vdi.aspx

http://blogs.technet.com/deploymentguys/archive/2008/09/01/virtual-desktop-infrastructure-vdi.aspx



before diving into the specific products is to provide integration with System Center and consistent

management across the whole stack so you don't need two sets of people with two sets of skills to

administer the system. Within VDI - the combination of XenDesktop, Hyper-V and System Center

provides you with a best-of-breed and cost-effective solution. In the context of application virtualization

we have engineered from the ground up with management in mind - this compares with other companies

who focused on developers - what that means is you can roll-out our application virtualization

technologies to thousands of PCs and manage them well. Our app virt technology is one of the fastest

selling products ever at MS and we have 80+ case studies of customers being successful deploying.

Barry: How can you share license on the same fiscal server? For example if I would install 4 servers on

the one physical server could they all use the same SQL server license?

Aanal Bhatt: Best place to understand how licensing works with virtualization is here:

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/virtualization.aspx

Chandrasekaran: Does Microsoft Campus Agreement includes Hyper V and the number of Virtual

server Licenses and Application Licenses?

Aanal Bhatt: Yes, Microsoft Campus Agreement does include Windows Server licenses. Hyper-V is a

feature of Windows Server 2008 R2. Learn more about Microsoft Education Licensing here:

http://www.microsoft.com/education/license/howtobuy/

Moderator: We're down to 45 minutes remaining, so send in your questions now to make sure Scott and

Aanal can answer them for you.

Donald: How will the selling of Desktop Virtualization help my bottom line?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): I assume you are a system integrator. The best technology scenarios from

your perspective are those where customers save money and you as a partner can help them do that. I

would focus on application virtualization because in the context of Windows 7 migrations lots of

customers are looking at refreshing their desktop images so it's the perfect time to add application

virtualization and save up to $82/PC/yr. There is work required to virtualize applications called

sequencing and you could help your customers do that work.

Anna: How can my organization (automotive business - production) benefit from deploying desktop

virtualization technologies?

Aanal Bhatt: All businesses including Automotive businesses can benefit from application virtualization

as it can help reduce application management costs and application to application conflicts. Automotive

businesses or any other manufacturing businesses can benefit from VDI if you have task workers on the

manufacturing floor that need to share the same desktop. Additionally any remote and mobile users such

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/about-licensing/virtualization.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/education/license/howtobuy/


as sales people or support technicians can benefit with VDI or Session Virtualization as they can get

access to their familiar desktop from any device anywhere, as long as they have internet connectivity.

Gaurav: What is the difference between your desktop virtualization and Red Hat desktop virtualization?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Microsoft has a broad portfolio of desktop virtualization technologies across

user&data settings, applications and OS. Other competitors have narrower portfolios - for example no

application or user&data settings virtualization. Within the OS virtualization layer we have worked very

hard to make the Windows experience on top of our hypervisor to be great while including the technology

as part of Windows and we have a broad set of management tools that help you manage it. If you are

doing Windows workloads, using Hyper-V is straightforward. If you are doing Linux workloads, Hyper-V

can help you there too and all with the same management experience.

Joel Rosas: What are the most common disasters experienced with migrating the Enterprise to

virtualized desktops? What are your suggestions for disaster recovery plans and readiness?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): I think of this as two questions. In terms of common disasters experienced as

people move to virtualized desktops - the biggest issue I see people hitting when they are doing VDI is

when their expectations of the business case economically were much higher than the reality. Customers

doing VDI for flexibility reasons or for off-shoring and knowing about the higher CAPEX are generally

happier than those that thought they would save lots of money on the desktop by moving to VDI which

isn't the case.

Joel Rosas: I am trying to adequately account for all planned and unplanned downtime, money, and

direct cost of disaster recovery...

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In terms of implementing disaster recovery - redundancy is the key -

redundancy at the server level, storage level, network level and site level.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): VDI is a multi-faceted architecture and so you really need to think about it

across all those axes.

Joel Rosas: Yes, that makes sense. I'll start with not over estimating the benefits of VDI when

composing my business case.

Wali: How can I centralize virtualization on a central server? What is the main benefit? Thanks.

Aanal Bhatt: You can centralize desktop virtualization by putting your desktops on a central server in a

datacenter. You would then access those desktops virtually using any connected device.


Aanal Bhatt: You can do this either through VDI or Session Virtualization. VDI and session virtualization

deliver greater flexibility for customers with a centralized desktop strategy and those that require a high

level of security.

Aanal Bhatt: It enables you to lock down the desktop if security and regulatory compliance are a

concern. If costs are a concern with task workers, you can share desktops across multiple users.

Aanal Bhatt: VDI and session virtualization work well for unmanaged desktops and remote offices with

excellent connectivity.

gregpothast: We have begun testing with Hyper V a few months ago. Frankly, it works well, however, I

do have a question with regards to it. Most shops, like ours, are using a combination of Microsoft, MAC,

Linux and UNIX servers. Like most people, in order to really take Microsoft’s virtualization plan seriously

(specifically in comparison to VMware), we need to be convinced it will cooperate with Linux and MACs. I

was hoping when R2’s Hyper V emerged, it would handle more OSs, but that wasn’t the case. Can we

expect to see more integration with Linux OSs, especially with mainstream Linux kernels?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): We addressed this a bit earlier. We have been working hard with the Linux

community in particular and you can now build Hyper-V aware modules for Linux as the drivers have

been accepted - in addition to our specific supported versions. There is more on this earlier in the chat.

Joel Rosas: Is there an opportunity to reduce the costs of OS and application licensing with VDI?

Joel Rosas: In order to justify VDI, I want to make sure that a VDI solution can better serve our users

while providing the same or enhanced functionality at a lower cost.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Generally speaking no. License cost reduction isn't a reason to do VDI - in fact

you end up buying more software to support running the VDI system.

Joel Rosas: Oh, I see. I'll take that into consideration. Thanks.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In terms of justifying VDI - that's a good approach but it's also why you need to

think about user segmentation. For contractors or offshorers with good bandwidth connections you can

likely provide the business with benefits (centralized data so the contractor increases you capacity but

you don't have corporate info their laptops) but VDI isn't something for all users because it has different

characteristics of user experience which may be suitable for some users but not all (e.g. not laptops)

James: Can the MS tools access the full amount of RAM on servers in a VM environment, and can it do

on the fly memory overcommittment?

Aanal Bhatt: We just announced a feature called Dynamic Memory which will be available as part of


Windows Server 2008 R2 Service Pack 1. This feature is specifically designed to help with memory

overcommit. You can learn more about Dynamic Memory here:

http://blogs.technet.com/virtualization/default.aspx

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Hi James - we just announced a feature we called dynamic memory. This

enables us to "take memory from a VM that isn't using it" and give it to another VM that needs it - all

dynamically.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): I guess we both got that one.

Moderator: We're down to the last 30 minutes of the chat. Make sure to get your questions submitted

now, so we can answer as many as possible.

Manjunath: How is MS Virtualization more helpful & secure than other products?

Aanal Bhatt: Microsoft Virtualization - both Server and Desktop - leverage Windows Server and

Windows 7 as the platform. Both Windows Server & Windows 7 are secure by design.

Aanal Bhatt: On the server virtualization side, Hyper-V which is an integral feature in Windows Server

2008 R2 enables you to implement server virtualization with ease and at no additional cost. You can

learn more about Hyper-V here: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-

features.aspx

Aanal Bhatt: For desktop virtualization, depending on your scenario, we have a variety of solutions &

each of them provides several benefits to customers. We recommend starting with a deeper analysis of

your pain points to understand what problem you're trying to solve first. You can learn more about our

desktop virtualization solutions here:


Joel Rosas: During implementation and testing, is there a subset of desktops that would be ideal for a

VDI test bed and production roll out? Should we start with desktops from existing environment, or new

desktops so we can test from scratch?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Good question--most of the VDI deployments to date are people trying with

100-400 seats. Choosing call centers w/good bandwidth, or contractors or off-shoring developers seems

be a very popular place to start with VDI and doing those desktops to learn more about it. Most people

are doing this re-using their existing PCs because of the CAPEX cost hurdles of VDI it means they get to

split their CAPEX costs over multiple budget cycles.

Joel Rosas: What sort of security features does the Windows Server and Win7 VDI pair offer compared

to, let's say, an Oracle VM, for MySQL and Linux deployment?

http://blogs.technet.com/virtualization/default.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-features.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/hyperv-features.aspx



Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Security on the desktop is obviously different to on the server. You need to

have security within the VM in particular

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): and all the typical security technologies you use in Windows today for

malware, anti-virus, firewall all apply in the VDI environment.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Some people get confused and think that VDI removes the need to secure and

management Windows. It doesn't - rather it complements all the management (patching, monitoring etc)

and security technologies you already are using

Joel Rosas: Yes, that's a good point Scott. I'll be sure to keep that in mind.

Moderator: Only 15 minutes left. Get your questions in now before it's too late.

Aanal Bhatt: For securing your VDI servers in the datacenter, key features in Windows Server 2008 R2

are Group Policy, Network Policy and NAP. Also, Windows Firewall in conjunction with Windows 7 is

another built in feature: http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/security-policy.aspx

Tamer: what is the difference between Microsoft Desktop Virtualization and CITRIX Basic

Fundamentals?

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): Citrix and Microsoft have been partners for over twenty years. In the context of

session delivered applications and desktops MetaFrame/Presentation Server/XenApp is still a fine

technology that is best in class for delivering remote applications.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In the context of VDI, Citrix and Microsoft also partner together as Citrix's

XenDesktop on top of Hyper-V and System Center is our joint go-to-market offer.

Scott Woodgate(MSFT): In terms of pure technology comparison - I wrote an answer earlier in this chat

describing the differences between Xenapp and VDI and when you should use which.

Moderator: There are 10 minutes remaining in this chat. If you have any last questions you would like to

submit, please do so now.

Joel Rosas: OK, I've got to run. Aanal and Scott, thanks for the all of the valuable info.

Joel Rosas: Cool, I'll check those features out.

Brian: We have all seen the broad brush strokes on this topic, can you give us recommendations on

where to find the detailed information necessary for supporting a successful rollout?

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserver2008/en/us/security-policy.aspx


Aanal Bhatt: You can find more details on deployment and other technical information here:

http://edge.technet.com/Tags/VDI/

Aanal Bhatt: Many customers have invested In System Center Configuration Manager. They have

asked me how do you see SCCM fitting into the virtualization?

Aanal Bhatt: Great question. We see System Center Configuration Manager as being key to any

virtualization strategy. As companies make the move to virtualization, you are going to most likely have a

hybrid environment where you need to manage virtual as well as physical assets. System Center can

help you manage all of this via a single console. What do we mean by management? It`s everything from

deployment; to updates; to patching; to monitoring the health of your IT environment.

Moderator: We are close to wrapping up our chat. Please submit any remaining questions now. We will

get to as many as possible before we wrap up.

Aanal Bhatt: If I virtualize my applications using Microsoft App-V, is there a cost savings?

Aanal Bhatt: Yes, many customers are finding TCO benefits with Microsoft App-V. You can also check

out our brand new TCO study here: http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/5/C/E5C17DCA-1387-

4D50-AFFC-2C4DC47126E7/APP-V%20Cost%20Reduction%20White%20Paper%20-

%20FINAL%2009-09-09.pdf

Moderator: Well we're out of time for today's chat. Thank you all for attending the chat and asking so

many great questions.

Moderator: An e-mail notification will be sent when transcripts are available.

Moderator: If you would like further information or have other questions, feel free to ask your peers in

the Virtualization Community. Go here to get started: http://it.toolbox.com/communities/storage-

virtualization/ Also be sure to check out the Microsoft Server Community here:

http://it.toolbox.com/communities/ms-servers/

Moderator: Have a great day, and thanks for participating here on Toolbox for IT.

http://edge.technet.com/Tags/VDI/

http://download.microsoft.com/download/E/5/C/E5C17DCA-1387-4D50-AFFC-2C4DC47126E7/APP-V%20Cost%20Reduction%20White%20Paper%20-%20FINAL%2009-09-09.pdf



http://it.toolbox.com/communities/storage-virtualization/

http://it.toolbox.com/communities/storage-virtualization/

http://it.toolbox.com/communities/ms-servers/


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Toolbox.com Live Chathosteddocs.ittoolbox.com › toolboxcom_microsoft-desktop... · 2013-11-13 · Toolbox.com Live Chat - The A to Z of Desktop Virtualization Moderator: Thank you