Darren Wilson Transcript20

8/10/2019 Darren Wilson Transcript20

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Grand Jury Ferguson Police Shooting Grand Jury 2 2

GR N JUROR: An d t h e y would b e p r e s e n t

i n

t h e examine

room?

Du r i n g an y k i n d o f

examlne

t a k i n g p l a c e ?

4

GR N JUROR:

Nods

h e a d . )

A My

g u e s s

would b e

t h a t

would b e

up t o

e a c h

6 i n d i v i d u a l o f f i c e r w h e t h e r t h e y

were c o m f o r t a b l e

7 w i t h a c o - w o r k e r o r a

s u p e r v i s o r

b e i n g

p r e s e n t .

8

O b v i o u s l y ,

i f

t h e y w e r e n t

9

c o m f o rta ble , I m s u r e a

s u p e r v i s o r

o r c o - w o r k e r

10

would

l e a v e

b u t

i f

t h e y

a r e

c om fo r ta ble , I m

s u r e

1 1

t h e y

c o u l d

s t a y

t o o .

12 GR N

JUROR:

An d

when th e d o c to r

i s

13

e x a ml n l n g th e p a t i e n t would

t h e r e

b e a r e a s o n f o r

14

t h e

s u p e r v i s o r t o

b e

a n s w e r i n g q u e s t i o n s ?

15

A I

g u e s s

would p r o b a b l y d e p e n d

on

what

16 t y p e

o f q u e s t i o n s

t h e y

would b e

a n s w e r i n g .

17 GR N

JUROR: B ut

t h e y r e

n o t th e p a t i e n t ?

18

A

T h e r e i s

o b v i o u s l y an a s p e c t

t o

some s o r t

19

o f workman s comp o r payment l s s u e s o r a ny

number

o f

20

t h i n g s l i k e t h a t c o u l d

a r i s e

t h a t

a

s u p e r v l s o r ma y

21

t a k e

upon h i s

ma y t a k e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y f o r .

But

2 2 s p e c i f i c a l l y

i n

an y s p e c i f i c s i t u a t i o n I

d o n t

23 know. I

t h i n k

would b e

e n t i r e l y

d i f f e r e n t .

2 4

O b v i o u s l y , j u s t

a s i f an y o f

u s

g o t

25 h u r t

l n

a

work

p l a c e

e n v i r o n m e n t ,

I m s u r e a

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supervisor

a n d / o r c o - w o r k e r

would

be

the re to

a s s i s t

ln w h a t e v e r way

t h e y c ou ld th ro ug h

t h e process

3 GR N

JUROR: I

have

one q u e s t i o n I

have

4

a

c o u p l e o f ques t ions one in par t i cu l a r

i s

a b o u t

h is v i s i t

to th e

emergency

room.

I t s a y s

in

h is

6

t r i age

repor t

t h a t

th e

pa t i en t

presented w i t h S t

7 L oui s

County

P o l i c e to t h e

emergency

room fo r

8

eva lua t ion from

home.

9

And when we had

somebody

t e s t i f y

h e r e

I

10

j u s t

wa n t

do

you know

i f

he

went

home

f i r s t ?

1 1 A

He

d id n o t go

home.

12

GR N

JUROR:

Okay.

13

A

He

went

to t h e F er guson P o l i c e

De p a r t me n t

14

a t

t h e di rec t ion o f

S e r g e a n t

and

he

w a i t e d

15 the re un t i l D e t e c t i v e

ar r ived And

16 o b v i o u s l y D e t e c t i v e d r o v e

n o t

w i t h

b u t

17 f o l l o w e d

D a r r e n Wilson

and

I

be l ieve

C o l o n e l

18

from

t h e F er guson pol ice s t a t i on to th e

19

emergency

room.

20

GR N

JUROR:

o

you know where D a r r e n

21 Wilson l i ves

or

what s t r ee t

or

what I m t ry ing

to

2 2 d e t e r m i n e i s how

fa r away

he

l i ves

from

th e

23 hospi ta l?

2 4

25

He

l i ves qu i t e a ways away.

GR N

JUROR: I j u s t

want

to

make

s u r e

I

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u n d e r s t a n d what you were

t r y i n g

t o say e a r l i e r I

know everybody

has

asked

some

q u e s t i o n s about

some

3

o f

t h e

t h i n g s he

t o l d

us h e r e

v e r s u s

some o f

t h e

4 t h i n g s he t o l d you a b o u t .

A Sure .

6

GR N

JUROR: I want t o make

s u r e

I m

7 u n d e r s t a n d i n g

what you

a r e

saYlng

because

w i t h

my

8 work ll

t a l k a

c e r t a i n

way w i t h my

co workers

t h e n

9

I would w i t h

t h i s

guy

r i g h t h e r e .

So I m

assuming

10

t h a t

it

i s a c c e p t a b l e f o r

t h i n g s t o

be i n f e r r e d

I m

11

a

little

nervous it

i s a c c e p t a b l e

t o go

unspoken

12

t h a t

you

know c o u l d have h app ened t h a t

he would

13

have

t o

e x p l a i n

t o

u s .

14 A Can you g i v e me a s p e c i f i c example o f what

15 you

a r e making

r e f e r e n c e to ?

16 GR N JUROR: S e v e r a l t h i n g s . I

c a n t

17

remember

what

S h e i l a asked

b u t she

asked

a

q u e s t i o n

18

and

t h e n he

asked

a

q u e s t i o n about d i d

he say he

was

19

unarmed.

He s a i d

w e l l s e v e r a l

t imes

t h a t h i s hand

20 was

still l n

h i s

wais tband

and

I

can

s e e where some

21 people

would say

t h a t

he

was

h o l d i n g

an l n J u r y o r

22

something b u t a s a p o l i c e

o f f i c e r and

a s a f e l l o w

23

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r

you d o n t

know t h a t s

what he

was

24 doing

you t h i n k he

c o u l d be so y o u r e t a k i n g

a s a

25

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r t h a t

d o e s n t

have

t o

be e x p l a i n e d

t o

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y O U .

A

C o r r e c t

I

t h i n k j u s t l i k e

i s i n

an y

3

i n du st r y o r a n y

l i n e

o f work I

t h i n k t h e r e a r e

4

o b v i o u s l y

t h i n g s t h a t

d o n t

n e c e s s a r i l y

n e e d

t o

b e

e x p l a i n e d o r a s you

s a i d

i m p l i e d

i n

an y i n d u s t r y .

6 An d

you make

r e f e r e n c e t o

t h e h a n d

i n

7

t h e w a i s t b a n d . A hand

i n

t h e

w a i s t b a n d t o me i n

a

8

s i t u a t i o n

i s

a n

a la rm i n

an y g i v e n s i t u a t i o n

b e c a u s e

9

I d o n t know a s a

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r I m t a l k i n g 1n

10

g e n e r a l

t e r m s

h e r e

now

I

d o n t

know

i s t h a t

11 p e r s o n s

hand

c o l d

o r i s

t h a t t h e y r e g o i n g t o

12

p u l l o u t a

k n i f e o r

a gun

o r

b a t o n

o r w h a t e v e r .

13 GR N

JUROR: So i s p o s s i b l e

t h a t

t h e

14 d i f f e r e n c e i s i n t h i n g s t h a t

he t o l d you an d th e way

15

he e x p l a i n e d

t h i n g s

how he t o l d

u s

c o u l d s i m p l y b e

16

you

a r e

a

p o l i c e o f f i c e r

an d you know t h e s i t u a t i o n

17

you know t h e

t y p e .

18

A I

t h i n k

t h a t s

p o s s i b l e y e s .

19

S p e c i f i c a l l y

i n

th e s i t u a t i o n w i t h t h e h a n d 1n t h e

20

w a i s t

I b e l i e v e I knew w hat he was making

r e f e r e n c e

21

t o

when h e s t a l k i n g a b o u t he makes me n t i o n

t o

2 2 f o u r t im e s you know.

23

GR N JUROR: I t

1S

a

c o n c e r n ?

2 4 A I t was o b v i o u s l y a

c o n c e r n t o him

an d

t o

25

me

a s a

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r would b e a

c o n c e r n t o me

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a l s o .

MS

ALIZADEH:

L e t

me a s k . I m s u r e y o u r

3 l u n c h 1S

h e r e . I f you w ant

t o f o l l o w - u p

w i t h

him

4 a f t e r l u n c h

we c an do

t h a t o r

you

t h i n k

t h e r e s

a n o t h e r f i v e m i n u t e s

w o r t h

o f q u e s t i o n s we ca n

t r y

6 t o f i n i s h

w i t h him. H e s s t i c k i n g a r o u n d .

7 I f

f o r some r e as o n d ur i n g

l u n c h

you w ant

8 t o a s k him

s o me t h i n g e l s e you know w e l l

b r i n g him

9

b a c k . But I know y o u r

l u n c h

i s p r o b a b l y h e r e . I s

10 t h e r e

a ny th in g p re ss 1n g

r i g h t

now

t h a t

you w ant

t o

1 1

a s k him

b e f o r e

b r e a k ?

12 GR ND

JUROR: When you s p o k e w i t h

o r

13

i n t e r v i e w e d

O f f i c e r Dar r en Wilson a t t h a t t i me

was

14

he

r e p r e s e n t e d

b y a n a t t o r n e y ?

15

He was y e s .

16 GR ND

JUROR:

At

a n y

t i me

d id

h is a t t o rn ey

17 s a y t h a t

t h e r e s c e r t a i n

t h i n g s t h a t

you

c a n n o t a s k

18 him?

19

20

He d id n o t n o .

GR ND JUROR: He d id

n o t .

21 A No. As a m a t t e r o f f a c t I

t h i n k

d u r i n g

2 2 t h e c o u r s e o f t h e i n t e rv ie w

h is a t t o rn ey maybe s a i d

23 two words.

2 4

GR ND JUROR: So he was p r e s e n t

t h e r e

w i t h

25

D a r r e n

Wilson?

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A

Yes

ma am y e s . He

was p r e s e n t

i n

t h e

2

c o n f e r e n c e room when

we i n t e r v i e w e d

him. So was

3 m y s e l f

D e t e c t i v e

D a r r e n Wilson

an d

D a r r e n

4 W i ls o n s

a t t o r n e y 1n

t h e c o n f e r e n c e room.

MS

ALIZADEH:

C o r r e c t me i f I m wrong

I

6

b e l i e v e

w e v e

h e a r d

t h a t h is a t t o rn ey

was

a l s o

7 p r e s e n t

w i t h

him a t

t h e

h o s p i t a l ?

8

He

was y e s .

9 MS ALIZADEH:

Ha d a c t u a l l y r i d d e n from

10

t h e

F e r g u s o n

P o l i c e

Department

w i t h

C o l o n e l

1 1 1n t h e

c a r

w i t h

D a r r e n Wilson

c o r r e c t ?

12 A I d o n t remember

s p e c i f i c a l l y i f he was

1n

13

t h e c a r

b u t

he d e f i n i t e l y was

a t

th e F e r g u s o n

14

P o l i c e

Department

a n d he d e f i n i t e l y was

a t C h r i s t i a n

15

No r t h we s t

H o s p i t a l

w i t h

D a r r e n Wilson y e s .

16 GR ND JUROR: A p u b l i c c i t i z e n o r p o l i c e

17 o f f i c e r

w a l k i n g

down t o

th e p a r k

t h e y r e

s i t t i n g 1n

18 a c a r

a n d

t h e y a r e s t r a n g l e d

an d

b e a t e n t o d e a t h

19

t h a t s

a

h o mi c i d e a n d

t h e r e

i s no weapon i n v o l v e d ;

20

1S t h a t

c o r r e c t ? A re

p h y s i c a l

h a n d s

e v e r a

weapon

21 o r you b e a t

me t o d e a t h ?

2 2

A

I s

a h o mi c i d e ?

Yes.

A

h o mi c i d e

i s

23 s i m p l y

a

manner o f

d e a t h b u t

more s p e c i f i c a l l y

a

2 4 h o mi c i d e

i s a d e a t h a t

t h e h a n d s o f

a n o t h e r

p e r s o n

25 so y e s would b e

a h o m i c i d e .

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GR N

JUROR: An d

h a n d s would b e

a

weapon?

A

Could b e a b s o l u t e l y

y e s .

3

GR N JUROR:

So I m g e t t i n g

t o

th e p o i n t

4

t h i s

o f f i c e r

f e l t he was

i n

d a n g e r o f b e in g

b e a t e n

t o

d e a t h s i t t i n g

i n

h i s c a r you c o u l d

a lm os t s a y

6

t h e r e

was

a

weapon i n v o l v e d

a t t h a t p o i n t

t h a t s

7 where I m

c o n f u s e d a

l ttl b i t .

I

u n d e r s t a n d no

8 weapon

1n

th e form o f

a

p i s t o l

o r handgun

i f you

9

a r e

1n

d a n g e r t h a t

y o u r l i f e was

i n

d a n g e r

t h a t

you

10 a r e

b e i n g

b e a t e n

t o

d e a t h

i s t h e r e

a

weapon

t h e r e

1 1

o r n o t ?

12 A Well

t h e r e s

a

weapon

1n

th e s e n s e

t h e r e

13 1S

s o me t h i n g

i n a

hand?

GR N

JUROR:

R i g h t .

4

15

No.

Can you

u s e

y o u r h a n d s

a

weapons

16 y e s .

17

GR N

JUROR:

R i g h t . T h e r e

1S

no

18 r e q u i r e m e n t t o

s e e

a p h y s i c a l weapon gun

k n i f e

19

f o r

a p o l i c e o f f i c e r

o r

c i t i z e n t o d e f e n d t h e m s e l f

20

o r 1n

t h e c a s e o f

a p o l i c e o f f i c e r t o u s e d e a d l y

21 f o r c e .

You

d o n t n e e d

t o

s e e

a

handgun

t o d e f e n d

2 2 y o u r s e l f w i t h

d e a d l y f o r c e

i f you

a r e p o l i c e

23 o f f i c e r you assum e y o u r l i f e i s

i n

d a n g e r by means

2 4

o t h e r

t h a n

a p h y s i c a l

weapon?

25

A I f a p o l i c e o f f i c e r

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MS

ALIZADEH:

L e t

me s t o p you h e r e .

W e r e g o i n g t o g i v e

you p r i o r

t o

y o u r d e l i b e r a t i o n s

3

what t h e law

s t a t e s

when a law

e n f o r c e m e n t o f f i c e r

4

c a n

u s e

f o r c e when a p e r s o n

d ef en d in g th em se lv es

c a n

u s e

f o r c e a n d when

t h e y

c a n

u s e

d e a d l y f o r c e .

6 An d s o

you know t h i s would b e

maybe h i s

7

u nd er s t a nd in g o f t h e law

b u t

we h a v e t a k e n

g r e a t

8

p a i n s

t o

make

s u r e

we

a r e

gOlng

t o g e t

you t h e law

9

so

t h a t

I d o n t w ant anybody

t o m i s in te rp re t

t So

10

I m

j u s t

g o i n g

t o

s t o p you

t h e r e a n d

w e l l

g i v e

t

1 1

t o

you b e f o r e y o u r d e l i b e r a t i o n s okay?

12

13

GR ND JUROR: Okay.

GR ND JUROR: Kind o f a

f o l l o w - u p

on what

14

h e s saY1ng.

15

Due

t o M ich ael B ro wn s

S l z e an d demeanor

16 c o u l d D a r r e n

W ilso n h av e

c o n s i d e r e d him

a s a p e r s o n

17

a s b e in g a weapon?

18 MS

ALIZADEH: You know t h e s e

a r e a l l

19 t h i n g s t h e r e

a r e

1S

t h e d e f i n i t i o n o f d e a d ly weapon

20 i n c l u d i n g

1n

t h e r e ?

21

MS

WHIRLEY:

We

c a n

p u t

t 1n

t h e r e

2 2

d e a d l y f o r c e i s i n t h e r e .

23

MS

ALIZADEH: Here

1S

th e t h i n g . You

a l l

2 4 know from b e i n g a

g r a n d j u r y f o r s e v e r a l

mo n t h s

25

t h a t

t h e r e s you know f o r e x a mp l e w i t h armed

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c r i m i n a l a c t i o n you know you h a v e t o h a v e

c o mmi t t e d a c r i m e b y w i t h

t h r o u g h th e u s e

o f a

3

d a n g e r o u s i n s t r u m e n t a

d e a d l y

weapon an d t h e r e

a r e

4

d e f i n i t e l y d e f i n i t i o n s

a s

t o what

i s

a

d e a d l y weapon

a n d a d a n g e r o u s i n s t r u m e n t .

6

I

b e l i e v e

o n c e you

s e e th e

law t h a t

w e v e

7 w r i t t e n

t a l k s a b o u t what a p e r s o n

t h e i r

8

r e a s o n a b l e b e l i e f

lS . An d

s o t h o s e t h i n g s t h a t you

9 a r e

a s k i n g

i s c o u l d

a p er s on r ea so n a b l y

b e l i e v e

10

t h a t

t h e i r

l i f e

was

t h r e a t e n e d

t h a t s th e

c r u x o f

1 1 what you

a l l

h a v e t o t a l k a b o u t .

An d

a g a i n lS

12 n e c e s s a r i l y a pp ro pr i a t e f o r

him t o a n s w e r t h o s e

13

q u e s t i o n s

w h e t h e r o r

n o t

Dar r en

Wi l s o n

c o u l d

h a v e

14

r e a s o n a b l y f e l t t h a t he

was h i s l i f e was

l n

d a n g e r

15

lS s o m eth in g you

a l l

h a v e t o d e c i d e .

An d

b e

g u i d e d

16

b y w hat

t h e e v i d e n c e i s

a n d t h e n what

t h e

law

i s

17

t h a t

S h e i l a

a n d I h a v e p u t

t o g e t h e r b a s e d on

th e

18

s t a t u t e s a n d c r i m i n a l i n s t r u c t i o n s an d j u r y

t r i a l s

19 o k a y .

20 I

d o n t

want you t o I

d o n t t h i n k

i s

21

a pp ro pr i a t e f o r

him t o i n t e r p r e t th e l a w.

T h a t s

2 2

g o i n g

t o b e

y o u r jo b

a n d i f you h a v e

q u e s t i o n s a b o u t

23 t h e law b ec a u se u nd e r t h e

g r a n d

j u r y r u l e s we

a r e

2 4

y o u r l e g a l

a d v i s e r s . So i f t h e r e

a r e q u e s t i o n s

25 a b o u t t h e law a s you

a r e d e l i b e r a t i n g

you

a s k

u s

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t h o s e

q u e s t i o n s

b e c a u s e we a r e

y o u r

l e g a l a d v is er s.

GR ND JUROR: W i t h o u t

r e l a t i o n

t o

t h e

law

3

h a v e you

l n

y o u r d e a l i n g s a s

a p o l i c e

o f f i c e r

e v e r

4

s e e n

anyone knocked o u t by one

punched?

A

Have

I

p e r s o n a l l y

s e e n

i t ? No . Have

I

6 r e s p o n d e d t o

c a l l s where someone

h a s

b e e n k n o c k e d

7

o u t w i th one p un ch by

a

n e i g h b o r

a

p e r s o n

a t a

b a r ?

8

Yes.

9 GR ND JUROR:

E v e r y t h i n g

t h a t t h e y a r e

10

t a l k i n g

a b o u t

I

j u s t

want

t o g e t

b a c k

t o

th e

b a s i c s

1 1 o f what h a p p e n e d o r s e e what h a p p e n e d . N e c e s s a r i l y

12 w a l k i n g l n

t h e mi d d l e o f th e

s t r e e t i s

n o t

t h a t b i g

13

o f

a d e a l b u t

when g o t

t o

th e

p o i n t I v e

h e a r d

14

d e s c r i b e d a s

a

t u s s l e

a s t r u g g l e

an d

e v e r y t h i n g

15 l i k e

t h a t so when

a c i t i z e n

an d

a p o l i c e o f f i c e r

16 a r e l n a

t u s s l e t h a t s

a cr i me

b y t h e p e r s o n

17

t u s s l i n g w i t h t h e

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r ?

18 MS ALIZADEH:

I m

g o i n g t o

s t o p you

19 t h e r e .

20

21

2 2

GR ND

JUROR: Why?

MS WHIRLEY:

We h a v e

a

r u l e on t h a t t o o .

MS ALIZADEH:

Be c a u s e

t h e r e a r e

l s s u e s

23 a b o u t

who

was t h e i n i t i a l a g g r e s s o r w h e t h e r o r n o t

2 4 t h e

o f f i c e r

was making

a

l a w f u l a r r e s t

t h o s e a r e

25

a l l t h i n g s t h a t

th e law w i l l t e l l y o u .

You

c a n

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c o n s i d e r w h e t h e r you b e l i e v e t h e o f f i c e r s a c t i o n s

were

l a w f u l

an d

t h o s e a r e t h i n g s t h a t

o n c e you

r e a d

3

t h e l a w.

4 GR ND

JUROR: So you

a r e

gOlng

t o g l v e u s

t h o s e

g ui d el i n es f o r u s?

6 MS

WHIRLEY: R i g h t .

7 MS

ALIZADEH: W e r e n o t gOlng

t o g l v e

you

8

t h e f a c t s an d

s a y

i f he d id t h i s a n d t h e n t h i s i f

9

you b e l i e v e t h i s t h e n

t h i s .

B ut w e r e

g o i n g t o

10

g i v e

you w hat t h e law

s a y s

when

a

law

o f f i c e r

ca n

1 1

u s e

f o r c e

t o

a f f e c t an a r r e s t a n d when

t h a t

f o r c e

12

c a n b e d e a d l y .

An d

t h e n

a l s o

when a p e r s o n c a n

u s e

13

f o r c e

t o d ef en d th em s elv es

a n d when

t h a t

f o r c e c a n

1 4

b e d e a d l y .

15 T h e r e

1 S

a l l

k in d o f

t h i n g s

a b ou t w he th er

16 o r

n o t th e p e r s o n

i s

a n i n i t i a l a g g r e s s o r you know.

17 An d u n d e r

th e law a law

e n f o r c e m e n t o f f i c e r

c a n b e

18

a n i n i t i a l a g g r e s s o r u n l e s s

h i s a r r e s t i s

u n l a w f u l .

19

So

t h e r e

i s

a l l

k in d o f

t h i n g s t h a t go

i n t o

t h a t

20

t h a t

I

d o n t t h i n k

he c an

a n s we r t h o s e q u e s t i o n s .

21

GR ND

JUROR: As l o n g a s we

a r e g o i n g t o

2 2

g e t t h o s e g u i d e l i n e s .

23

MS

WHIRLEY: You w i l l

g e t

d e f i n i t i o n s

2 4

a l s o

an d you a p p l y th e f a c t s a s you know

them t o

t h e

l a w.

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GR N

JUROR:

J u s t

i n

c a s e you d o n t come

2 b a c k I

n e e d t h i s

f o r

me.

When

s t a r t i n g y o u r

3

i n v e s t i g a t i o n a f t e r you

a l r e a d y

i n t e r v i e w e d

O f f i c e r

4 W i l s o n o k a y . You

h e a r d

A

o f th e

s t o r y

t h e r e s

A

a n d

B b u t B

i s

d e c e a s e d .

6

C o r r e c t .

7 GR N JUROR:

My q u e s t i o n

i s

you h e a r d

8 h i s

t e s t i m o n y s t a r t i n g y o u r

i n v e s t i g a t i o n

you h a v e

9 A i n

y o u r

mind

a n d t h e n you

go

i n t e r v i e w

a l l

o f th e

10 o t h e r

w i t n e s s e s .

When B

d o e s n t h a v e

a

v o i c e

you

1 1 d o n t make

t h a t

y o u r main

c o n c e r n

d u r i n g y o u r

12 i n v e s t i g a t i o n

I m a s k i n g you a s

a p o l i c e o f f i c e r o r

13 a

d e t e c t i v e .

14 A

Okay.

W h a t s

th e

q u e s t i o n ?

15 GR N JUROR:

So th e q u es t i o n l S

O f f i c e r

16

W i ls on s te stim o ny t o l d you

h i s s c e n a r i o

what

17

h a p p e n e d . Of c o u r s e Mike Brown

c a n no t s p ea k .

18 A

R i g h t .

19 GR N JUROR: You

o n l y h a v e what p a r t

A

20

s a i d

you

d o n t

h a v e p a r t B. So

g o i n g

o f f w hat he

21

s a i d

an d you

a r e

s t a r t i n g y o u r i n v e s t i g a t i o n t h a t s

2 2 y o u r

f o c u s p o i n t

s o

do

you

l i k e t r y t o p u t

23 e v e r y b o d y s i n v e s t i g a t i o n

t o w a r d s

p a r t

A

o r you

2 4

t r y i n g t o p u t

t h i s

s c e n a r i o

t o g e t h e r ?

25

A A b s o l u t e l y n o t .

o

I t r y t o p u t

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e v e r y o n e s t o wa r d p a r t A a s you made r e f e r e n c e ? I n

t h e i n i t i a l

p h a s e s

o f a n

i n v e s t i g a t i o n

it s s i m p l y

3 t o

I m s u mma r i z i n g it h e r e .

4

GR N JUROR: Okay.

A I t i s s i m p l y

t o f i n d

a s many w i t n e s s e s a s

6

we c a n an d

g a t h e r

t h e

f a c t s . T h e r e i s

no s k e wi n g

t o

7

one s i d e o r

t o

t h e

o t h e r . t s

e s s e n t i a l l y

l o c a t e

8

w i t n e s s e s

o b t a i n t h e i r s t a t e m e n t s

from them an d it

9

i s

t o

g a t h e r th e

e v i d e n c e a t

t h e s c e n e .

10 An d

t h e n

i n

t h i s

p a r t i c u l a r i n s t a n c e

1 1 r i g h t I

p r e s e n t

it

t o

you l a d i e s an d

g e n t l e m e n

o f

12

t h e

g r a n d j u r y

an d you c a n make th e

d e c i s i o n s

from

13 t h e r e .

But

t h e r e

i s no s k e wi n g one s i d e

e i t h e r

way

14 o k a y .

15 GR N

JUROR: Thank y o u .

16 GR N

JUROR:

One

l a s t q u e s t i o n . I n y o u r

17 e i g h t

y e a r s a s a

d e t e c t i v e

h a v e you

e v e r

h ad

t o

18 a r r e s t

a

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r ?

I h a v e y e s s e v e r a l

t i m e s .

9

20

GR N JUROR: Can you

g l v e

one exam ple?

21 A

I v e

w e l l t h i s y e a r I a r r e s t e d a

S t .

2 2 L o u i s County

p o l i c e o f f i c e r f o r

an

a s s a u l t .

23 S e v e r a l y e a r s ago I a r r e s t e d a

c i t y

2 4

p o l i c e o f f i c e r f o r

a n

a s s a u l t . I v e

c o n d u c t e d

o t h e r

25

i n v e s t i g a t i o n s

i n t o

p o l i c e

o f f i c e r s where

t h e y

h a v e

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b e e n a r r e s t e d f o r

a s e x

cr1m e. Those

a r e

th e

t h r e e

t h a t a r e

popp1ng

up r i g h t

now. I m c o n f i d e n t

t h e r e

3

a r e a

few o t h e r s

o n e .

4

GR ND

JUROR:

A s s a u l t d o m e s t i c a s s a u l t s

o r

t h e y

6

A One

was a n

on d u t y

a s s a u l t

t h a t t o o k

p l a c e

7

a t a

Me t r o Li n k s t a t i o n an d th e i n c i d e n t was

c a p t u r e d

8

on

v i d e o . The

o t h e r

one was an a s s a u l t

t h a t t o o k

9

p l a c e

th e

o f f i c e r

was

i n

u n i f o r m an d he was

a t

h i s

10

s t a t i o n he was g e t t i n g o ff

d u t y

o r h ad j u s t g o t t e n

1 1 o f f d u t y a n d he

a s s a u l t e d

s ev e r a l i n d iv id u al s an d so

12

o b v i o u s l y , b o t h o f

t h o s e

i n d i v i d u a l s

I

a r r e s t e d .

13 MS ALIZADEH: An y o t h e r q u e s t i o n s ?

14 An d

r e a l l y he w o n t b e

g o i n g

f a r .

I f

15

a f t e r

l u n c h

you

t h i n k

o f s o me t h i n g e l s e you n e e d

t o

16 a s k him t o c a l l him b a c k ,

w e r e n o t

g o i n g t o

s t a r t

17

d e l i b e r a t i o n s

r i g h t

now. So w e l l c o n c l u d e f o r

18 l u n c h a t

t h i s t i m e .

19

Lunch

r e c e s s

t a k e n )

20

MS WHIRLEY:

T h i s

i s S h e i l a W h i r l e y ,

21

1S

November

2 1 s t

I m n o t s u r e o f th e

t i m e ,

i s

2 2

a f t e r 1: 14 o r

s o .

I

d id r e a c h

r e g a r d i n g

23 h i s

r e p o r t

an d he a d v i s e d

me t h a t

h i s

r e p o r t

would

2 4 b e

more compl et e

an d d e t a i l e d an d

t h a t

he

c o u l d

25 h a v e

t o u s

by noon

on

Monday.

I a s k e d him

what

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would b e d i f f e r e n t you know

o r

s i g n i f i c a n t an d he

2 s a i d

t h a t he w ould b e a b l e he

c an

d e r i v e

from t h e

3 p h o t o s

t h a t he v iew ed o n ce he was h e r e th e b u l l e t

4

t r a j e c t o r y an d

t h e p o s i t i o n

t h a t

th e

body was i n

when

t

was

s h o t .

6

When he was h e r e he b a s i c a l l y

a n s we r e d

7 o u r

q u e s t i o n s b u t a

r e p o r t

when he w ould

s i t down

8

a n d

w r i t e

a r e p o r t

t

would b e

more c o mp r e h e n s i v e

9

a n d d e t a i l e d .

10

He

s a i d

he

d i d n t r e a l i z e

he

h a d n t

1 1 s t a r t e d wo r k i n g

on

t he

d i d n t r e a l i z e

he

c o u l d

12

s u b m i t one

a f t e r h i s

t e s t i m o n y b u t he

c o u l d

work

on

13 t

a n d h a v e

t r e a d y

by Monday noon

b e f o r e

noon.

14

With t h a t l n

mind

I

know

you

d i d n t

g l v e u s

y o u r

15

a n s w e r a s t o what you h a d

d e c i d e d

a b o u t th e

r e p o r t

16

what

do

you

t h i n k do

you want

th e r e p o r t ?

17

MS ALIZADEH:

T e l l them

t h e o t h e r o p t i o n .

18

MS WHIRLEY: I

t h o u g h t

we would

go

t o

t h e

19

o t h e r o p t i o n i f t h e y

d o n t

want t h e

r e p o r t .

20 MS ALIZADEH: They

s h o u l d know a l l

o f

21

t h e i r o p t i o n s .

2 2

GR N

JUROR:

I f

I m

h e a r i n g

you

r i g h t

l n

23

h i s

r e p o r t

i s

he s a y i n g t h a t

b a s e d on

t h e t r a j e c t o r y

2 4 o f

t h e

b u l l e t s he

i s g o i n g

t o

show

a d i a g r a m o f

25

p o s i t i o n i n g

o f t h e body t h a t r e s u lt e d i n t h o s e

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i n j u r i e s ?

2 MS WHIRLEY: I d i d n t go i n t o d e t a i l

3

q u e s t i o n i n g of

him

and t h a t s where th e

o t h e r

4 o p t i o n

comes i n

and

we

w i l l

t a l k

about

t h a t i n a

minute

but

what he

s a i d b a s i c a l l y

i s h i s

r e p o r t

6

w i l l

t a l k

about th e t r a j e c t o r y of th e b u l l e t s and

7

what p o s i t i o n t h e body was

i n

when was shot

based

8 on h i s f i n d i n g s .

9 Now

t h e

o t h e r

o p t i o n l S as

Kathi

was

10 s u g g e s t i n g

I

could

f i n d

ou t

i f

you want

t o

ask

him

11

a

q u e s t i o n

l i k e

you had

a

p r e t t y d e t a i l e d q u e s t i o n

12 r i g h t

then

I could t r y

and reach

him again

and see

13 i f he

l S a v a i l a b l e

maybe

we

could do

a

conference

14 c a l l

and you can

ask him

some q u e s t i o n s about what

15

h i s

r e p o r t

would

say t h a t

he

d id n t t a l k

about here

16 o r how

may d i f f e r o r how

i s more complete

17 Was t h e r e a n o t h e r

opt ion?

I t h i n k those

were t h e

18 two o p t i o n s . m I

missing one?

19 MS ALIZADEH:

The o p t i o n s

a r e

cont inue

20 without t h e

r e p o r t o r

without

a

conference c a l l .

21

MS WHIRLEY: T h a t s

th e

t h i r d

o p t i o n .

22

MS ALIZADEH: Or

l e t s

j u s t

wai t

f o r

th e

23

r e p o r t on

Monday

a t

noon o r l e t s

g e t him on a

24 conference

c a l l

and see i f he can e x p l a i n

t o us

what

25

might

be

i n

h i s

r e p o r t t h a t

he

d i d n t

t e s t i f y

t o

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when he was

h e r e

o r we n e e d

t o

h a v e

him

b a c k

l i v e

a n d

i n

p e r s o n

f o r

you

a l l t o

q u e s t i o n

him i n

p e r s o n .

3

I m n o t

s u g g e s t i n g

an y o f t h e s e .

4 MS

WHIRLEY: Yeah

1S up t o

y o u .

MS

ALIZADEH: These

a r e a l l

y o u r

6

d e c i s i o n s .

S h e i l a i s

th e one who

t a l k e d t o him

7

t h a t s

why

I t o l d h e r t e l l

him

w hat you

s a i d .

8 MS

WHIRLEY:

T h a t s

w hat he

b a s i c a l l y

9 s a i d .

10 GR ND

JUROR: He

s a i d t h a t

he

c o u l d

t e l l

1 1 h i t

r e p o r t

i s

g o i n g t o

b e t e l l

u s

what p o s i t i o n th e

12

body was

i n

when he was

s h o t .

13 MS

WHIRLEY: H e s

g o i n g t o

b e

g l v 1 n g

a n

14

0p1n1on

1S my

u n d e r s t a n d i n g

i s

he w a s n t

t h e r e .

15

A

T h a t s

d i f f e r e n t t h a n w hat he

s a i d

when he

16

was

h e r e

s o i f t h a t s t h e

c a s e

t h e n I

t h i n k

we

17

n e e d

t o

w a i t u n t i l we h a v e th e r e p o r t .

18 GR ND

JUROR: What he

s a i d 1S

a

19 pr1ma dona. How

much

t i me

he n e e d

t o

do a

r e p o r t

a

20

f i n a l r e p o r t .

Ev e r y

t i m e

he

s a y s s o m e t h i n g

he

21 c h a n g e h i s mind I m

s o r r y b u t t o me

h e s a

pr1ma

2 2 dona.

23

MS

ALIZADEH: T h i s

d i s c u s s i o n

you

s h o u l d

2 4

a l l

h a v e b y y o u r s e l f a n d o f f t h e r e c o r d . Here

i s

25 t h e

t h i n g

an d t h i s i s one

t h i n g

t h a t I w a s n t p a r t

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o f t h e

c a l l S h e i l a

was. I m a s k i n g h e r some o f

2

t h es e q ue st i o ns

b e c a u s e I a s ke d

h e r now I m

3

c r o s s - e x a m l n l n g S h e i l a .

4

S WHIRLEY:

N ot gOlng

t o h a p p e n .

S ALIZADEH:

I s he

g o i n g t o s a y

6

s o me t h i n g d i f f e r e n t t h a n w hat he t e s t i f i e d to ?

7 S WHIRLEY: An d my

u nd er s ta nd in g lS no

8

n o t

n e c e s s a r i l y

d i f f e r e n t u n l e s s t h a t s

a

9 c o n c l u s i o n

you

ma y

come

up w i t h .

I t i s

b a s i c a l l y a

10 more

d e t a i l e d

an d

compl et e

r e p o r t r e g a r d i n g

t h e

1 1 t r a j e c t o r y o f t h e b u l l e t s an d th e p o s i t i o n

t h a t

th e

12

body was

i n

when

t

was

s h o t .

13 I f

you

a l l r e c a l l

s o me t h i n g d i f f e r e n t

t h a t

14

he

s a i d

when he t e s t i f i e d I m n o t

s u g g e s t i n g t h a t

15

you a r e

b u t

t h a t s you know f o r you

t o

d e c i d e .

16 He b a s i c a l l y s a i d t h a t h i s r e p o r t

would b e a b o u t

h i s

17 f i n d i n g s

I m

r e p e a t i n g

t t h i s i s v e r b a t i m t h e

18

t r a j e c t o r y o f t h e b u l l e t s an d th e

p o s i t i o n

o f t h e

19

body when he was

s h o t . I d i d n t

q u e s t i o n

him

an y

20 f u r t h e r t h a n

t h a t .

21

S ALIZADEH:

So

we

h a v e th e

e v i d e n c e

a l l

2 2 s e t

up i n

th e room

f o r

y o u . F i r s t o f

a l l do

you

23 n e e d

me t o c a l l

b a c k

t o a n s we r

an y

2 4 f u r t h e r q u e s t i o n s

a t

t h i s t i me ?

No o k a y .

25

Now

you

a l l a s ke d

a b o u t t h e d u t y b e l t

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which

we

do have 1n

evidence

and you w i l l be a b l e

t o

2

see it

but I

have th e

photographs

of

it

when t h e

3

duty

b e l t

was

s e i z e d ,

and

it looks l i k e

t h i s was

4

s e i z e d

by D e t e c t i v e

who

you have

a l r e a d y

heard from.

6

So

I

w i l l l e t you look

a t those

and

I ll

7 mark

t h e envelope

t h a t

c o n t a i n s

those

photos .

There

8 a r e SlX

1mages Grand

J u r y

E x h i b i t

107.

9 Grand j u r y

E x h i b i t Number

107

10

marked

f o r

i d e n t i f i c a t i o n .

11

S ALIZADEH: Obviously we

had some

12

m a t t e r s dur ing t h e

lunch hour t h a t

kind of kept

me

13 busy

with

t h i n g s . I

d id

t r y t o

look f o r

t h a t

14 Quantico r e p o r t

about th e

gunshots t h a t

you h e a r .

15 And I

know

I

have it

I

h a v e n t had

r e a l l y t ime t o

16

s e a r c h

through my s t u f f f o r

it. So

while

you

a r e

17

looking

a t

evidence

I

w i l l

t r y t o l a y my

hands

on

18 t h a t

as

w e l l .

19 You

want

t o h e a r

th e i n te r v ie w of

20 b e f o r e you

go look a t

th e

evidence?

Yes.

21

So

can you t e l l

me

can

I

look

a t my

22 little c h a r t .

23

Playing

of th e i n te rv ie w of

24 by t h e FBI. The fol lowing

1S a

25

t r a n s c r i p t i o n

of

t h a t

i n t e r v i e w . The

Witness

w i l l

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be

2 T

FBI:

Today

i s August 25th 2014

3

Time i s approximately 7:12 p m

This

i s

Specia l

4

Agent

of

the FBI along

with Specia l

5

Agent

with the FBI We are here

to

6

t a lk

with This

i s regard ing the

7

Michael Brown the death of Michael Brown The

8

c iv i l r igh t s inves t iga t ion

with S t Louis

Divis ion

9

of the FBI We are a t the of f i ces of h is

a t torney

10

11

12

i f you could j u s t

s t a t e your

13

name and spe l l

fo r me?

14 T

WITNESS:

15

16 T

FBI: I f you could glve

me your

date

17

of b i r t h and

your

address?

Address

WITNESS:

8

19

20

21

T

FBI: And you unders tand t ha t

th i s

22

interview

i s being

recorded?

23

T

WITNESS: Yes

24

T FBI:

Are you f ine

with

t h a t being

25

recorded?

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T WITNESS: Yes.

T FBI: Okay.

So

we a r e

h e r e t o

t a l k

t o

3

you t o d a y

a b o u t

th e c i v i l r i g h t s i n v e s t i g a t i o n we

4 h a v e r e g a r d i n g t h e d e a t h

o f

M i c h a e l Brown. I f we

c o u l d j u s t s t a r t we h a v e h e r e a t th e

6

Can you t a k e a

look

a t

t h i s

map a nd

7

p o i n t o u t

t o

me

where

you t h i n k

y o u r

a p a r t m e n t i s ?

would

be o v e r

T WITNESS: U h -

T FBI:

8

10

h e r e .

1 1 T WITNESS: Okay

12

T

FBI:

You

t h i n k t

was

13

T WITNESS:

Yeah.

14

T

FBI:

I f you

w o u l d n t mind j u s t

15

c i r c l i n g

t h e r e

a n d i f you c o u ld k in d o f p o i n t o u t

16

wh i c h s i d e

o f

t h e b u i l d i n g

y o u r e

o n .

17

T WITNESS: Would

be

h e r e .

18

T FBI: Okay. Can you p u t l i k e a l ttl

19

s t a r

t h e r e ?

Okay.

20 ow

a b o u t

i n i t i a l i n g t h a t

too?

So

we

can

21

look

a t

t h i s

l a t e r an d know t h a t

t

was you t h a t

2 2 marked

t

an d

e x a c t l y

where

t

i s t h a t you a r e a t .

23 I s t h a t

where

you were a t on Au g u s t t h e

2 4

9 t h 2014?

25 T WITNESS: Yes.

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T

FBI:

Were

you 1n

your

apartment

or

ins ide

you r a partmen t?

3

T

WITNESS: Ins ide

4 T

FBI: About what t ime S

t ha t you

th ink

t ha t t h i s has happened?

6

T

WITNESS: About 12:35 S r igh t

7 before

about

12:35

a t

the ea r l i e s t and the l a t e s t I

8

glve

12 :45

9

T

FBI: I f you could t e l l

me what

you

10

were

doing

t ha t day, walk me

through

what happened

11 r igh t before and r igh t through when you heard the

12 shots?

13 T

WITNESS: I was 1n my room, I probably

14

inaudible

Before

12:35 but I know I was 1n

the

15 house.

I never d id anyth ing t ha t morning. I was

a t

16

home

a l l day.

And I was t a lk ing

a t

approximately

17

12:35 the t ime t ha t I gave, I heard the sho ts while

18

I was t a lk ing to my f r i end on Glad.

19 T FBI:

What i s Glad?

20

T

WITNESS: Glad i s a soc ia l

app

t ha t

21 you

can

download

on

your

phone

and you

can

have a

22

multimedia exper ience

through t ex t ing and video.

23

T

FBI: Okay.

Is

t ha t on a Google

24

phone, iPhone,

what kind

of

phone?

25

T

WITNESS: Andro id phone, Google phones

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and

iPhones

I th ink have the access

to

t ha t

TH

FBI: Okay

Your

phone

i s what kind

3

of

phone?

4 TH

WITNESS:

Android

TH

FBI: Android okay

So

i s an

app

6 t h a t you downloaded t h a t you

can use to

video t ex t

7 people

regula r

t ex t

messaging

t ha t you type ou t a

8 message t h a t kind

of

thing?

9

TH

WITNESS:

Right

I t i s a soc ia l

app

10

where

you

can

t a lk and meet

people

and you

can a lso

11 t a lk

to fr iends

meet

f r iends and send t ex t s and

12 video

13

TH

FBI: Who was

t ha t you were t a lk ing

14 to go

on

Glide

t h a t day?

15 TH

WITNESS: I was t a lk ing

to

16

17 TH FBI:

Can you sp e l l th a t fo r me?

18 TH

WITNESS:

19 TH

FBI: o you n o w s l a s t name

20

TH

WITNESS: I t 1S a name So

21

1S

22 TH FBI:

23

TH

WITNESS:

24 TH FBI:

25

TH

WITNESS:

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T FBI:

2 T

WITNESS:

Yeah

3 T

FBI:

So

you were t a lk ing with

4 t h a t day?

T

WITNESS: Yeah

6 T

FBI:

So

you th ink

about 12:35 12:45

7 ln

t h a t t ime per iod?

8 T

WITNESS: Yeah

9 T

FBI: And

can

you t e l l me

what

was

10

p r l o r

to

the

recording

t h a t you

played

fo r

us

p r lo r

11

to

us s t a r t i ng

th i s

recorded in te rv iew

can

you t e l l

12

us what was happening before you made t h a t

13

recording?

14 T

WITNESS: In the house

with

me?

15 T FBI:

Yes

16 T

WITNESS: I never

l e f t

the

room

I was

17 ln

the room most of the t ime I was lay ing down on

18

my bed

al ls

came ln I was j u s t

in

my room Jus t

19

r ea l ly have the day you know j u s t not doing

20 anyth ing

a t

t h a t

moment

21

T FBI:

Okay

22

T

WITNESS: But j u s t

ln

the room most

of

23 the t ime lay ing down on the bed

24

T FBI: And

p r io r

to sending

the video

25

messaglng

you a l ready

showed

us d id you see o r hear

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a n y t h i n g

p r i o r

t o

t h a t r e l a t i v e

t o t h i s

c a s e ?

TH

WITNESS: J u s t t h e

s h o t s

t h a t I

3

ment i oned an d

t h r e e s h o t s

b e f o r e .

4 TH

FBI: You t h i n k you h e a r d

t h r e e s h o t s

b e f o r e you s e n t th e

v i d e o ?

6 TH

WITNESS: About

t h re e s h o ts .

7 TH

FBI: o you know how

long

t h a t was

8

b e f o r e you s e n t th e v i d e o b e f o r e you made I m

9

s o r r y , made t h e

v i d e o ?

10 TH

WITNESS:

Maybe

a b o u t

I

d o n t know

1 1 maybe

a b o u t f i v e ,

s i x s e c o n d s

maybe.

12 TH

FBI: Okay. You h e a r d th e

s h o t s

an d

13 you t h i n k you h e a r d

t h r e e

s h o t s ?

14 TH

WITNESS: Yes was l o u d .

15 TH FBI:

Okay.

16 TH

WITNESS:

An d

I

t h i n k ,

I

s a i d t o

my

17

roommate

one

o f u s

ment i oned

t h a t

was v e r y

l o u d

18

a n d t h e n I would n e e d

t o

s e n d

him

a v i d e o . I d i d n t

19

when

somebody

t a l k i n g

t o

you i n a u d i b l e . ) Then I

20 s e n d t h e v i d e o th e v i d e o I h e a r d more.

21

TH

FBI:

So

a b o u t

f i v e s e c o n d s a f t e r you

2 2 h e a r d t h e

s h o t s

you s t a r t e d r e c o r d i n g t h e v i d e o ; i s

23 t h a t

c o r r e c t ?

2 4

TH

WITNESS: About

t h e n y e a h .

25

TH

FBI: An d t h e n t h e v i d e o t h a t you

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showed

u s p r io r a g a 1 n

to

u s s t a r t i ng

th i s

r e c o r d i n g

2

h a s you c rea t ing a v i d e o message t ha t h a s b o t h a u d i o

3

a n d v i d e o

correc t?

4

T

WITNESS: Yes.

T

FBI: T h e r e i s

shots

h e a r d 1n t h a t

6

message a s w e ll?

7 T

WITNESS: Yes.

8 T

FBI: An d t h e n do you h e a r a n y t h i n g

9

more a f t e r t h a t you s t o p p e d the v i d e o did you h e a r

10

a n y more

shots

a f t e r w a r d s ?

1 1

T

WITNESS: No .

12 T

FBI: Was

the re

a n y t i me

d u r i n g

t h a t

13 t i m e

where

you

went

outs ide o f

y o u r

a p a r t m e n t t h a t

14

you w ould h a v e

s e e n a n y t h i n g ?

15 T

WITNESS: No I was

ins ide

the

16 a p a r t m e n t

the whole t i m e .

17

T

FBI: Okay.

Can

you g l v e u s

y o u r

18

r o o mma t e s name a s

wel l

19 T

WITNESS: Uh

20

T

FBI: Can you sp e l l th a t fo r me?

21

T

WITNESS:

2 2 T FBI:

23

T

WITNESS:

Yeah. I m

sor ry

2 4

her name S

I m sorry a b o u t

t ha t

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and h e s

your

2

3

4

THE FBI:

r i d of

t h a t t h a t s not

r i g h t .

THE

WITNESS:

Yeah

THE FBI:

The

g e t

5 roommate t h e r e ?

6 A

She

lS a g i r l .

7 THE FBI: And she lS

your roommate

a t th e

8

apar tment o you have any

o t h e r

roommates?

9

THE

WITNESS:

Along

with

a couple

10

people

s t a y i n g

t h e r e

but

you know j u s t a t t h a t

11 t ime

was

t h r e e of

u s .

t h e r e

as well?

12

13

14

THE FBI: Okay

y o u r s e l f

was

THE

WITNESS:

was

t h e r e

w a s n t t h e r e

a f t e r

THE

WITNESS:

Urn a f t e r 1:00 maybe

about

15 she

moved l n he came

a f t e r .

16

THE

FBI: He came a f t e r .

17

THE

WITNESS:

Yes

18

THE FBI: Can you s p e l l h i s name f o r

me?

19

THE

WITNESS:

20 THE FBI:

How

much l a t e r d i d he come

t o

21 t h e apar tment

22

1:30

24 THE

FBI: A ll r i g h t .

So

d e f i n it e ly a t

t h e

25

apar tment during t h e t ime of t h e shoot ing?

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TH

WITNESS: He

w a s n t

t h e r e And

then

I

remember him

asking me i s

t

okay

t o

come

i n

th e

3 doors

and he e v e n t u a l l y came

4 TH

FBI: Okay I t h i n k t h e

o t h e r

p1ece

o f in fo rm atio n t h a t you wanted

t o

t e l l us

about

was

6

a video

r e c o r d e r

t h a t was removed video camera t h a t

7

was

removed Can

you t e l l me a l ttl b i t

about

8

t h a t ?

9 TH

WITNESS: That came i n t o

my

mind when

10

I

spoke

another

eyewitness

who

was

glv1ng

me

11 d e t a i l s

of

t h e

e n t i r e t h i n g

12 TH

FBI: Who was t h a t t h a t you a r e

13

t a l k i n g to?

14

TH

WITNESS: The eyewi tness was

15

t e l l i n g

me t h a t

16 TH FBI:

Okay

And

how do you

s p e l l

17

18

19

s name?

TH

WITNESS:

I d o n t know how t o

I t i s kind

of

a

I t h i n k

t

i s

name

20

something t

S

21

22

23

24

25

TH

FBI: Okay

TH

WITNESS:

TH

FBI: o you know

TH

WITNESS:

TH

FBI:

s l a s t name

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TH

WITNESS: Yeah.

TH

FBI: Okay.

So

you were t a l k i n g

with

3 about t h i s i n c i d e n t ,

th e shooting of Michael

4

Brown?

TH

WITNESS:

Yes.

6 TH

FBI: And

sparked

something

1n

your

7

head

about

cameras or?

8 TH

WITNESS: Well I was j u s t t r y i n g

t o

9

g e t informat ion o r d e t a i l s

about

what

happened.

10 TH FBI:

Okay.

11

TH

WITNESS:

Since

I l i v e

i n

th e

12

community I was j u s t

cur ious

what happened.

13 i n a u d i b l e . )

14 TH

FBI:

So

s h e s t h e one t h a t t o l d you

15

t h a t

t h i s

camera had

been

removed?

16 TH

WITNESS:

Yeah.

17 TH

FBI: You d i d n t see t h e camera

18 removed?

19 TH

WITNESS: No.

20

TH

FBI: Okay. o you know w hich cam era

21

was d i d

she

t e l l you?

22

TH

WITNESS: No.

23

TH

FBI: Well then t h a t s

something

we

24

can

fol low up

with

h e r

s i n c e

you d o n t have any

25

independent

knowledge

of t h a t camera S

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TH

WITNESS: No I c a n t t h i n k of

something

t h a t she has t h e

knowledge

of w hich cam era

2

and who removed

from

where

was?

3 TH

WITNESS: Right

4

TH

FBI: Was

t h e r e

anyth ing e l s e

i n

t h e

sh ooting of Michael Brown t h a t

would

be

h e l p f u l

f o r

6 us?

7

8

anything

9 TH

FBI: I

asked

you b e f o r e

about

whether

10

you would

be

w i l l i n g

t o

share

th e

video

t h a t you

11

showed t o

us today i s t h a t

something

you a r e

12

w i l l i n g

t o

share

with us?

13 TH

WITNESS: Yes

14 TH FBI: We

w i l l

go ahead

and have you

15 s l g n

a form t h a t al lows you know gives us

16 a u t h o ri z at i o n t o

take t h a t o f f

your

phone

and take a

17

copy of t h a t d i r e c t l y o f f

your

phone

18

Okay Anything e l s e ?

19

I d o n t want

t o

g e t i n t o what she t o l d

20 you what you

t a l k e d with

h e r . o you have any

21 informat ion a way

t o

c o n t a c t her?

22

23

24

TH

WITNESS: No

TH

FBI: You d o n t .

TH

WITNESS: I mean w e l l she has a

25 s i s t e r t h a t I t a l k

t o so

h e r s i s t e r .

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THE FBI: W h a t s h e r s i s t e r s name? I s

2 t h e r e

a

c e l l

phone

number

we

can

r e a c h h e r

a t ?

3 THE

WITNESS:

4 THE FBI:

h a t s s

l a s t name.

MS WHIRLEY: I d o n t know h e r l a s t name.

6

THE FBI: Okay.

o

you h a v e a

number

f o r

7

? s s i s t e r S th e

one

who s u p p o s e d l y

8

saw what happened?

THE WITNESS: s s i s t e r S t h e

one

10

who

l i v e s

i n

th e

a p a r t m e n t

complex.

1 1

THE FBI: o

you know where

sh e l i v e s

a t

12

1n t h e

a p a r t m e n t

complex?

13

THE WITNESS: d o e s n t l i v e 1n

14 a p a r t m e n t

complex

d o e s .

Okay.

15 THE FBI: Again

was t h e one

16

t e l l i n g you

a b o u t t h i s

camera?

17 THE

WITNESS:

Yeah.

18 THE FBI:

D id you

t a l k t o y o u r o t h e r

19

roommate w a s n t t h e r e

b u t

y o u r roommate

20

d i d you t a l k

t o

t h a t roommate d id t h a t

21 roommate d id sh e s e e a n y t h i n g was sh e o u t s i d e ?

2 2

THE

WITNESS: No

sh e

was

i n s i d e .

23

THE FBI: She

was i n s i d e .

2 4

THE

WITNESS:

She

was

i n s i d e .

25 THE FBI:

So

sh e may h a v e h e a r d s o m e t h i n g

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she

was not

o u t s i d e t o

be a b l e

t o

see

anything.

2 THE WITNESS:

Right .

3 THE FBI:

Okay. Again any

o t h e r

4

q u e s t i o n s ?

o

you have

s

address?

6 THE WITNESS:

No.

7 THE FBI:

Okay.

All

r i g h t . The

t ime

i s

8 now 7:26

w e l l

go

ahead and s to p th e r e c o r d i n g .

9

End of t h e recorded

i n t e r v i e w .

10

MS

WHIRLEY:

I s

t h a t

t h e

only

t h i n g t h a t

11 w e r e l i s t e n i n g to?

12 MS ALIZADEH:

This 1 S

Kathi Alizadeh we

13 j u s t

played o f f of Grand

J u r y

E x h i b i t Number 49

14

which

i s a d i s c , we j u s t

played

a s ta tement

from

15

which was recorded by t h e

FBI

16 p r e v i o u s l y , previous t o h i s

t es t imony b e f o r e t h i s

17 grand Jury.

18

Are

t h e r e

any

o t h e r

recorded

s t a t e m e n t s

19 t h a t I i n d i c a te d t o

you

t h a t we

have a v a i l a b l e ?

20

J u s t f o r

t h e r e c o r d s

sake

as well as

f o r y a l l t o

21 know

on t h a t

l st

I should i n d i c a t e

what

e x h i b i t

22 t h e

s t a t e m e n t s a r e on.

So i f

a t

any

t ime

even

23 dur ing your d e l i b e r a t i o n s you want

t o h e a r

t

I

can

24 p l a y

t f o r

you.

25

S h e i l a

and

I t a l k e d

about th e

f a c t t h a t

i f

GorePerry Reporting

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34/49

Grand Jury Ferguson Police Shooting Grand Jury

2 2

you want

t o

l i s t e n

t o a w i t n e s s

s ta tement on

a

d i s c

where

t h e r e a r e m u lt i p le

s t a t e m e n t s probably i f you

3 can

ask us t o go

ahead and cue up can l eave

4

t h e room i f you want

t o

be alone and

t a l k while

i t s

p l a y i n g

t h e r e

i s

a

l o t of

p e o p l e s

s t a t e m e n t s

on

6

t h e r e t h a t d i d n t g e t

played

because they say they

7

d i d n t

know anyth ing o r what have you

8

And

then

but I

w i l l t e l l you

s t a t e m e n t s

9

t h a t I

d id not have

p r e v i o u s l y t h a t I s i n c e

have

10

g o t t e n .

This

i s

t h e

s ta tement

of

which

11 was done i s

a

two and

a

h a l f

hour

s ta tement

t h a t

12

was done t h e

n i g h t

b e f o r e he t e s t i f i e d and

I v e

13

marked

t h a t

as Grand

J u r y

E x h i b i t Number 109

14

This

i s a d i s c t h a t has a s ta tement

of

15 t h a t

was done by t h e

FBI on

16 September 2nd

of 2014

I d i d n t

have

t h a t

17 p r e v i o u s l y

t h a t s Grand

J u r y

E x h i b i t 108

And a

18

recorded

s ta tement

of

t h a t

was done

19

t h e day b e f o r e

she

t e s t i f i e d f o r you guys and t h a t s

20 Grand

J u r y

E x h i b i t 110

21 So

a l l

of t h e s ta te m e nts

t h a t I v e

22

i n d i c a t e d t h a t

you have not heard you

e i t h e r

have

23 t h e t r a n s c r i p t s f o r o r

I

have them

on

d i s c f o r you

24

t o l i s t e n t o

whenever you need

t o a l l

r i g h t .

25 With

t h a t

being

s a i d . Any o t h e r

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s t a t e m e n t s you w ant

t o

l i s t e n to ? You

j u s t

l e t me

know.

3 At

t h i s p o i n t l e t s

go

a h e a d a nd

t a k e

o u r

4

b r e a k

f o r y a l l t o t a k e

a

bathroom

b r e a k i f you w ant

a n d t h e n

r e a s s e m b l e

h e r e an d t h e n we w i l l

go

l o o k

a t

6

t h e

e v i d e n c e i n

th e

room,

1 S

t h a t a l l r i g h t ? An d

7

t h e n you g u y s ca n l e t

u s

know what y o u r

d e c i s i o n

i s

8

a b o u t

s r e p o r t .

9

Recess)

10

S ALIZADEH:

I t

i s

November

2 1 s t ,

1 1

2: 47

p . m.

12 S

WHIRLEY:

An d my

u n d e r s t a n d i n g

i s

13

y o u r e

r e a d y t o g e t

i n s t r u c t i o n

on

t h e law so

t h a t

14

you c an b e g i n y o u r d e l i b e r a t i o n . Y o u v e

a l s o

made a

15 d e c i s i o n

you

a s k e d u s t o

c h e c k

on

th e

r e p o r t ,

16 a u t o p s y r e p o r t

b y I c h e c k e d

on

t I

17 r e p o r t e d

b a c k an d he

s a i d t

was n o t

r e a d y , b u t

he

18 c o u l d

h a v e

t r e a d y

b y noon, wh i c h 1 S

on

t h e e a s t

19 c o a s t

i s

my u n d e r s t a n d i n g ,

by noon

on

Monday. y

20 u n d e r s t a n d i n g

i s

you h a v e a g r e e d

t h a t

you w i l l w a i t

21 f o r

t h a t r e p o r t

b e f o r e

t u r n i n g i n

y o u r

d e c i s i o n ;

i s

2 2

t h a t

c o r r e c t ? Yes. However, you w ant

t o

b e g i n y o u r

23 d e l i b e r a t i o n s now, c o r r e c t ?

2 4

J u r o r s i n d i c a t e

y e s . )

25

S

WHIRLEY:

We

h a v e

p r e p a r e d

t h e law f o r

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you we have p r e p a r e d th e r e l e v a n t s t a t u t e s and

2

Kathi

i s

going t o

grab t h e in dic tm e nt s

they

a r e

3 ready j u s t

need t o b r i n g

them

i n here and

ll

4

pass

t h i s around

have kind of reduced

down

th e

s t a t u t e

6

so t h a t it

i s a p p l i c a b l e

t o

t h i s

case and e a s i e r t o

7

unders tand and r e a d . Of course i f you have any

8 q u e s t i o n s a long th e

way you

can ask

us by knocking

9 on

t h e

door o r r i n g i n g

t h e b e l l . I

guess r l n g l n g

10 t h e

b e l l would

be b e t t e r . And

d e f i n it i o n s t h a t you

11

t h i n k a r e a p p l i c a b l e

t o th e

s t a t u t e s .

12

So

w e r e going

t o

th e

s t a t u t e s and w i l l

13

glve t h e foreperson t h e i n d i c t m e n t s and I w i l l p i c k

14 up t h e

e x t r a s .

15

MS ALIZADEH: So th e i n d i c t m e n t s

t h a t

we

16

have p r e p a r e d t h e r e lS an ind ic tment

f o r

murder l n

17

t h e f i r s t

degree

a

Class

A fe lony and armed

18

c r i m i n a l

a c t i o n

and u n c l a s s i f i e d fe lony t h e r e lS

19 two

c o p l e s .

20 There lS ind ic tment

f o r

murder i n

t h e

21 second

degree

and armed

c r i m i n a l two

c o p l e s .

22 An ind ic tment

f o r

v o l u n t a r y

manslaughter

23 a

Class

B fe lony and armed c r i m i n a l a c t i o n

two

24 c o p l e s .

25 An ind ic tment

f o r

i n v o l u n t a r y

manslaughter

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i n

t h e

f i r s t d e g r e e

an d armed c r i m i n a l

a c t i o n

two

2

c o p l e s .

3 An d

i n v o l u n t a r y

m a n s l a u g h t e r i n

th e

second

4

d e g r e e

an d armed c r i m i n a l

a c t i o n two

c o p i e s .

S WHIRLEY:

The r e l e v a n t s t a t u t e t

6

p r e t t y much l a y s o u t t h e

e l e m e n t s

o f th e

c r i m e s t h a t

7

you h a v e i n d i c t m e n t s

f o r .

I t

a l s o h a s

d e f i n i t i o n s

8 t h a t mi g h t

b e

a p p l i c a b l e t o

th e

c r i m e s t h a t a r e l a i d

9

o u t

i n

th e

s t a t u t e s t h a t

you

a r e

l o o k i n g a t t

lS

10

n o t

a

s t a t u t e

t

i s a n i n d i c t m e n t .

1 1 The s t a n d a r d o f p r o o f i s p ro ba ble c au se

12 we

d i d

c o n f i r m t h a t .

So you

g u y s t h a t i s

w hat you

13

h a v e b e e n

working

w it h p ro ba ble

c a u s e a l l a l o n g

14 S l n c e

you h a v e b e e n

g r a n d j u r o r s

a n d

t h a t d o e s n t

15

c h a n g e . Even t h o u g h t h i s

h a s

b e e n

a

v e r y

l o n g

16 a r d u o u s t a s k g oin g th ro ug h

t h i s e v i d e n c e . Your

17

s t a n d a r d o f p r o o f i s

st ll

p ro ba ble c au se .

Y o u r e

18

n o t h e r e

t o d e t e r m i n e g u i l t o r

n o t

g u i l t y

t

lS

19

p ro ba ble c au se i s t enough

t o go t o

t r i a l .

20

Now

what

makes

t h i s

a

l ttl

b i t

21 d i f f e r e n t i s

t h a t

i f you w i l l l o o k

on p a g e

t h e

2 2

f i r s t p a g e

t

t a l k s

a b o u t a s s a u l t o f

a

law

23

e n f o r c e m e n t o f f i c e r i n

t h e

f i r s t

d e g r e e .

An d

t h a t s

2 4 p a r t o f t h e i n d i c t m e n t

b e c a u s e

th e

o f f i c e r i s

s a Yl n g

25 he was a r r e s t i n g

him

f o r a s s a u l t i n g him. So t h a t s

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w hat you w ould b e c o n s i d e r i n g 1n y o u r d e l i b e r a t i o n

a n d we h a v e p r o v i d e d you w i t h d e f i n i t i o n s o f a s s a u l t

3

1n t h e

f i r s t

d e g r e e

on

th e

second page 1S

a s s a u l t

4 1n

t h e

second d e g r e e

a n d th e

t h i r d

d e g r e e .

An d

t h e n

a l s o

a law

e n f o r c e m e n t

o f f i c e r s

u s e

o f f o r c e

i n

6

making a n

a r r e s t .

An

o f f i c e r

c a n

u s e f o r c e i n

7

making a n a r r e s t g o t

t h a t l a i d

o u t f o r y o u .

8 S

ALIZADEH:

Re a l q u i c k

ca n I

i n t e r r u p t

9

a b o u t s o me t h i n g ?

10

S WHIRLEY: S u r e .

1 1

S

ALIZADEH:

P r e v i o u s l y

1n th e v e r y

12

b e g in n in g o f t h i s

p r o c e s s

I p r i n t e d o u t a

s t a t u t e

13

f o r you

t h a t

was t h e

s t a t u t e i n M i s s o u r i

f o r t h e

14 u s e

o f

f o r c e t o

a f f e c t an

a r r e s t .

15

So i f you

a l l

want

t o g e t t h o s e o u t .

What

16

we h a v e

d i s c o v e r e d

an d we h a v e b e e n

g o in g a lo n g

17

w i t h t h i s d o i n g o u r

r e s e a r c h

i s

t h a t

th e

s t a t u t e

18 i n

t h e

S t a t e

o f

M i s s o u r i d o e s

n o t comply w i t h t h e

19

c a s e l a w.

20 T h i s

d o e s n t

s o u n d p r o b a b l y

u n f a m i l i a r t o

21 you

t h a t

t h e law i s

c o di f i e d i n

a

w r i t t e n

form 1n

2 2 b oo ks a n d

t h e y r e

c a l l e d

s t a t u t e s b u t

c o u r t s

23 i n t e r p r e t

t h o s e

s t a t u t e s .

An d

so th e

s t a t u t e

f o r

2 4 t h e

u s e

o f

f o r c e t o

a f f e c t a n

a r r e s t i n

th e

S t a t e

o f

25

M i s s o u r i d o e s

n o t comply w i t h

M i s s o u r i

Supreme I m

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2 2

s o r r y United S t a t e s

Supreme Court

c a s e s .

And

so what

S h e i l a has come up

with

1S

a

3

s ta tement of th e law as

t o

when an

o f f i c e r

can

use

4 force t o

a f f e c t an a r r e s t

t h a t does t r a c k our

Missouri

S t a t u t e

but a l s o

t a k e s i n t o c o n s i d e r a t i o n

6

what t h e Supreme Court

says okay

7

So th e

s t a t u t e

I gave you i f you want

t o

8 f o l d t h a t 1n

h a l f

j u s t

so

t h a t

you know

d o n t

9 n e c e s s a r i l y

r e l y

on t h a t because t h e r e

i s a

p o r t i o n

10

of

t h a t t h a t d o e s n t

comply

with

th e

law And

then

11 t h e

t h i n g t h a t S h e i l a

i s g i v i n g you

t h a t

s ta tement

12

about

use

of

force t o

a f f e c t an a r r e s t I

d o n t

know

13

i s

t h a t

what you c a l l e d t i s

t h a t

th e t i t l e .

14 MS

WHIRLEY: Law

enforcement

o f f i c e r s

use

15

of force

i n

making an a r r e s t

y e s .

16

MS

ALIZADEH: That does c o r r e c t l y

s t a t e

17

what t h e law i s

on

when an

o f f i c e r

can

use

force and

18

when he can

use deadly force i n

a f f e c t i n g an a r r e s t

19 okay

20 I

d o n t

want you

t o g e t confused

and

d o n t

21 r e l y

on t h a t

copy o r

t h a t p ri n t- o u t

of th e

s t a t u t e

22

t h a t I v e

given you a

long tim e

ago

23

MS

WHIRLEY: Did you have a

ques t ion?

24

GR ND

JUROR: So

w e r e t o

d i s r e g a r d

t h i s .

25

MS

ALIZADEH: I t i s not

e n t i r e l y

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i n c o r r e c t o r i n ac cu ra te b u t

t h e r e

i s

somet hi ng

1n

t h a t s n o t c o r r e c t

19nor e

t o t a l l y .

3 GR ND

JUROR: I t i s

b e c a u s e

o f t h e

4 f e d e r a l ?

MS WHIRLEY: Of a

Supreme C our t

c a s e a nd

6

we must f o l l o w

Supreme C o u r t o f

t h e U n i t e d S t a t e s .

7

I t i s

T ennessee

v . G a r n e r n o t t h a t t h a t m a t t e r s

8

much

t o

you.

9 GR ND

JUROR: The

Supreme C o u r t

f e d e r a l

10 Supreme C o u r t

o v e r r i d e s

M i s s o u r i

s t a t u t e s .

1 1 MS ALIZADEH: As

f a r

a s you n e e d

t o

know

1 2 j u s t d o n t wo r r y

a b o u t t h a t .

MS WHIRLEY:

We

d o n t want

t o

g e t i n t o a

13

14

15 s t a t u t e .

16

GR ND

JUROR:

MS ALIZADEH:

A ll

r i g h t .

J u s t

d i s r e g a r d

t h a t

17

law c l a s s .

18 T h a t s

t h a t one an d S t h a t a l l you w ant

19 t o

s a y on

t h a t ?

20

2 1

t h a t

o u t .

2 2

MS ALIZADEH:

Yeah

I wanted

t o

p o i n t

MS WHIRLEY:

Use o f

f o r c e an d d e f e n s e

o f

23 a p e r s o n an d w e v e added

u s e

o f f o r c e a nd

i s

2 4 a c t u a l l y

I m

s o r r y we c o n s i d e r

a

s e l f - d e f e n s e

25 i n s t r u c t i o n .

So

t h e

f i r s t

one

i s s e l f - d e f e n s e a s

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r e l a t e s t o t h e i n f o r m a t i o n t h a t you ma y h a v e h e a r d

2

r e g a r d i n g M i c h a e l Brown.

3

The s e c o n d one

1S s e l f - d e f e n s e

a s

it

4

r e l a t e s t o

t h e

law

e n f o r c e m e n t

o f f i c e r . As you

d e l i b e r a t e an d

l o o k e d a t

th e i n d i c t m e n t i f you h a v e

6 q u e s t i o n s a b o u t

d e f i n i t i o n s a g a i n we h a v e p r o v i d e d

7

d e f i n i t i o n s s o

j u s t

r e f e r t o t h a t s h e e t t h a t you

8 h a v e . An d

t h e n

a l s o

p r o b a b l e c a u s e

i s th e

9

s t a n d a r d b u t

K a t h i

s o me th in g s h e a d d e d t h a t you

10

know

I

n e e d

t o

t e l l

you u n l e s s you want t o

do

it

I

1 1

c a n do it

12

13

MS ALIZADEH:

MS WHIRLEY:

No you do it

I s

t h a t

i n o r d e r t o v o t e

14 t r u e

b i l l you

a l s o

must

c o n s i d e r w h e t h e r

you

15 b e l i e v e Dar r en

W i l s o n you f i n d p r o b a b l e

c a u s e

16 t h a t s th e

s t a n d a r d t o

b e l i e v e

t h a t

D a r r e n

Wi l s o n

17

c o mmi t t e d th e o f f e n s e an d t h e o f f e n s e s

a r e

what

i s

18 1n t h e

i n d i c t m e n t a n d you must f i n d p r o b a b l e c a u s e

19

t o

b e l i e v e

t h a t

D a r r e n

Wi l s o n d id n o t

a c t

i n

l a w f u l

20


an d y o u v e g o t

t h e l a s t

s h e e t t a l k s

21 a b o u t


an d t a l k s a b o u t o f f i c e r s

u s e

o f

2 2

f o r c e

b e c a u s e t h e n you must

a l s o

h a v e p r o b a b l e

23 c a u s e t o

b e l i e v e

t h a t

D a r r e n

Wi l s o n d id n o t

u s e

2 4

l a w f u l

f o r c e i n

making

an a r r e s t . So you

a r e

25 c o n s i d e r i n g


an d

u s e

o f f o r c e i n making

GorePerry Reporting

Video 314 241 6750 1 800 878 6750


42/49


2 2

an

a r r e s t .

You have

a l l

t h e

informat ion

you need

i n

3 those

documents

t h a t

we gave you

t o help i n

your

4

d e l i b e r a t i o n . But

again

i f you have

a d d i t i o n a l

q u e s t i o n s w e r e

h e r e

w e r e not

going

anywhere d i d

6

you have something?

7 GR ND

JUROR: No

8 MS

WHIRLEY:

And

t h a t s enough

t o g e t

you

9 s t a r t e d

and h o p e f u l l y t h i s w i l l

c l a r i f y t h i n g s

f o r

10

you

as

you

go

through

th e i n di c tm e n ts .

And

I

t h i n k

11 we have

a l r e a d y t a l k e d

about

y o u l l

decide how you

12

want

t o go through

th e

indic tments

i f you want

t o

13

look

a t

them one

a t

a

t ime but

you must make a

14 d e c i s i o n whether

i s t r u e b i l l o r

no

t r u e b i l l f o r

15

each i n d i c t m e n t .

16 MS

ALIZADEH:

And

as was

brought up a t

17

t h e very beginning of t h i s and what we

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Darren Wilson Transcript20