Clergy Compensation Survey - Amazon S3s3.amazonaws.com/dfc_attachments/public/documents/801865/clergy... · 1 of 1 Clergy Compensation Survey Rank the importance of the following

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Clergy Compensation Survey

Rank the importance of the following factors that might attract and retain clergy to your congregation. (One is

most important and six is least important. You must choose one factor for each number. No ties.)

1 2 3 4 5 6Rating

Average

Response

Count

Benefits (Health Insurance)15.4%

(55)25.4%

(91)

17.9%

(64)

19.8%

(71)

15.9%

(57)

5.6%

(20)3.88 358

Demographics of Congregation6.3%

(22)

11.9%

(42)

13.6%

(48)

23.0%

(81)25.0%

(88)

20.2%

(71)2.91 352

Location19.5%

(69)

17.5%

(62)22.9%

(81)

15.3%

(54)

17.8%

(63)

7.1%

(25)3.84 354

Mission of Congregation36.6%

(131)

14.2%

(51)

14.2%

(51)

14.2%

(51)

12.6%

(45)

8.1%

(29)4.24 358

Salary21.9%

(80)26.5%

(97)

24.0%

(88)

15.8%

(58)

9.0%

(33)

2.7%

(10)4.28 366

Schools2.2%

(8)

4.9%

(18)

9.5%

(35)

12.8%

(47)

18.3%

(67)52.3%

(192)2.03 367

answered question 374

skipped question 17

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Rank the importance of the options below in helping your congregation offer a high enough compensation to

attract and retain a clergy person.(One is most important and four is least important. You must choose one factor

for each number. No ties.)

1 2 3 4Rating

Average

Response

Count

Increase stewardship 45.3% (163) 26.4% (95) 17.5% (63) 10.8% (39) 3.06 360

Merge with another congregation to

offer full-time compensation jointly5.4% (19) 22.2% (78) 31.0% (109) 41.5% (146) 1.91 352

Offer full-time compensation for

your church only23.5% (84) 26.5% (95) 18.4% (66) 31.6% (113) 2.42 358

Share the clergy with another

congregation to offer a full-time

package

27.8% (98) 24.6% (87) 32.6% (115) 15.0% (53) 2.65 353

Other (please specify) 35


skipped question 21

Other (please specify)

1 If shared with another church, could work at one church two sundays, and at theother church for two sundays.

Mar 18, 2010 4:07 PM

2 Increase members Mar 18, 2010 4:51 PM

3 Sharing noted for associate position as currently incarnate Mar 18, 2010 5:54 PM

4 These are the only two options for my parish Mar 18, 2010 6:06 PM

5 part-time compensation Mar 18, 2010 6:09 PM

6 Find a way for church to be more meaningful to individuals who do not currentlyattend a church

Mar 18, 2010 7:34 PM

7 Assign circuit riders (2nd choice) Mar 18, 2010 8:17 PM

8 Clergy compensation is too high. The compensation is higher than 90% of thecongregation in our parish.

Mar 18, 2010 9:35 PM

9 The last 3 options are just not relevant for our congregation. Mar 18, 2010 10:36 PM

10 THIS ? IS VERY CONFUSING Mar 19, 2010 10:51 AM

11 Flexible part-time scheduling availability Mar 19, 2010 5:04 PM

12 Attract new members. Mar 19, 2010 7:42 PM

13 In our experience, increasing stewardship just increases the amount we pay ourrector.

Mar 20, 2010 1:12 PM

14 tentmaker clergy Mar 20, 2010 2:04 PM

15 Offer a half-time salary and schedule (which we do). Mar 20, 2010 6:17 PM

16 Cooperate with multiple other congregations Mar 21, 2010 12:58 AM

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17 Study ways of decreasing money sent to the Diocese Mar 22, 2010 1:19 PM

18 Cannot open these options. One would be item three. Mar 22, 2010 1:59 PM

19 THis is difficult because there is no other church near enough to merge with. I dofavor shared clergy when possible.

Mar 22, 2010 3:56 PM

20 combine chaplaincy positions with part time parish positions. Mar 24, 2010 8:54 PM

21 How does Increase stewardship relate to the other 3? Mar 25, 2010 9:33 PM

22 Every church I have been in has come upo short in terms of stewardship. I thinkthis is at the heart of the affordability issue, but more importantly it is how peoplelet us know just how happy they really are or how much they really want clergy. Iam not sure that full time clergy makes sense in a lot of places even if moneyweren't an issue, but most congregations should be able to support what'simportant to them.

Mar 26, 2010 2:22 PM

23 Every parish wishes for its own full time priest, yet the reality is smallcongregations cannot effectively manage the salary and benefits package. Thetime has come for setting aside our pride and our independence to find creativeand daring ways to be the Church in Maine through sharing clergy. If the rector ishalf time then work half the Sundays in order to free up the remaining Sundays tospend working with another parish, if geographical sharing is problematic. Dare tothink outside the narrow little box that we continue to find ourselves in and limitourselves to as though that is the way it has to be. [EDITED TO REMOVE NAMEOF RESPONDENT]

Mar 26, 2010 2:24 PM

24 They are all 20th century and Number 4. Instead ordain people in eachcongregation and give the offerings for the poor in town.

Mar 26, 2010 2:29 PM

25 hire clergy who cares more about pastoral care than compensation Mar 26, 2010 2:40 PM

26 Mileage reimburement! Drives LONG Distance! Mar 26, 2010 2:52 PM

27 Make the clergy bi-vocational and share ministry work with the laity. Mar 26, 2010 2:53 PM

28 easy work Mar 26, 2010 9:22 PM

29 actively advertise, evagelize and recruit new mewmbers Mar 29, 2010 6:23 PM

30 Attract more members to the mission of the church Mar 30, 2010 12:33 AM

31 Should the third choice be "part time"? Otherwise, it is what most churches aredoing already.

Apr 4, 2010 2:15 AM

32 tyth Apr 5, 2010 4:56 PM

33 allow clergy to work more creatively - developing ministry within congregations Apr 6, 2010 5:18 PM

34 part time retired May 7, 2010 4:15 PM

35 Sharing and merging are no viable for our location May 7, 2010 4:19 PM

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Are you aware that the Diocese of Maine has minimum compensation requirements for clergy in Episcopal

congregations?

Response

Percent

Response

Count

yes 85.7% 335

no 14.3% 56


skipped question 0

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Do you believe your congregation to be in compliance with the Diocese of Maine clergy compensation minimums

for your clergy person?

Response

Percent

Response

Count

yes 85.0% 261

no 15.0% 46


skipped question 84

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Rank the most likely actions your congregation might take in order to stay in compliance with the clergy

compensation minimums.(One is most important and four is least important. You must choose one factor for each

number. No ties.)

1 2 3 4Rating

Average

Response

Count

Increase stewardship 60.7% (182) 15.0% (45) 12.3% (37) 12.0% (36) 3.24 300

Merge with another congregation 3.1% (9) 8.0% (23) 27.5% (79) 61.3% (176) 1.53 287

Reduce clergy time (e.g. from full-

time to part-time or from half-time

to quarter-time)

23.7% (70) 37.6% (111) 19.7% (58) 19.0% (56) 2.66 295

Share clergy with another

congregation13.9% (41) 38.3% (113) 39.7% (117) 8.1% (24) 2.58 295


skipped question 85

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Rank the challenges your congregation faces (the greatest challenge as 1 and the least challenge as four) in its

effort to be in compliance with the clergy compensation minimums.

1 2 3 4Rating

Average

Response

Count

Annual increases due to length of

tenure10.1% (30) 18.2% (54) 27.3% (81) 44.4% (132) 1.94 297

Cost of health care 23.9% (71) 29.3% (87) 28.6% (85) 18.2% (54) 2.59 297

The salary itself 32.7% (98) 34.3% (103) 22.3% (67) 10.7% (32) 2.89 300

Stewardship of the congregation 34.7% (104) 18.3% (55) 21.7% (65) 25.3% (76) 2.62 300


skipped question 84

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Rank the clergy responsibilities below in order of importance. (One is most important and eight is least important. You must choose one factor for each

number. No ties.)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8Rating

Average

Response

Count

Administration of the parish 7.4% (25) 6.5% (22)17.2%

(58)8.9% (30) 9.2% (31)

12.7%

(43)21.9%

(74)

16.3%

(55)3.87 338

Education/youth ministry 0.0% (0) 5.3% (18)13.5%

(46)

20.2%

(69)22.3%

(76)

19.6%

(67)

14.1%

(48)5.0% (17) 4.00 341

Empowering people for ministry14.7%

(50)

14.7%

(50)16.4%

(56)

12.9%

(44)

12.6%

(43)

10.0%

(34)

11.4%

(39)7.3% (25) 4.94 341

Leadership in growing the

congregation

14.3%

(49)

14.3%

(49)

12.2%

(42)20.4%

(70)

14.9%

(51)

14.0%

(48)5.5% (19) 4.4% (15) 5.07 343

Liturgical Leadership/Preaching46.3%

(158)

24.3%

(83)

12.0%

(41)6.5% (22) 3.8% (13) 4.4% (15) 1.5% (5) 1.2% (4) 6.78 341

Outreach/visibility in the wider

community1.2% (4) 6.2% (21)

11.9%

(40)

14.5%

(49)

20.5%

(69)20.8%

(70)

20.5%

(69)4.5% (15) 3.87 337

Pastoral Care16.3%

(56)27.6%

(95)

16.6%

(57)

12.8%

(44)

13.1%

(45)9.3% (32) 3.8% (13) 0.6% (2) 5.75 344

Service to the Diocese 0.0% (0) 1.5% (5) 1.5% (5) 3.8% (13) 4.4% (15) 8.5% (29)20.9%

(71)59.4%

(202)1.83 340


skipped question 41

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Do you feel that clergy performance should be considered in determining clergy compensation?

Response

Percent

Response

Count

yes 79.2% 278

no 20.8% 73

Why or why not? 255


skipped question 40

Why or why not?

1 Unlike our Roman Catholic counterparts, the vestry should be involved in theperformance of the clergy. It is after all a full time job. It should be pay forperformance!

Mar 18, 2010 4:09 PM

2 First there is an ethical question of whether we are paying clergy enough that withthe educational loans they may have required to fulfill the formation process theycan survive and provide for their family. The church has to set the example bypaying their clergy a living wage. They also have to expect what they pay for. e.gFull Time=40 hrs, Three-Quarter Time=30 hours, Part Time=20 hours, andQuarter Time= 10 hours (obviously with the exception of an emergency. ). Thenthe performance should be taken into account, but only after setting the exampleof paying a living wage to begin with.

Mar 18, 2010 4:13 PM

3 I believe that the prospect of increased compensation for excellent performanceprovides an incentive. The question is, Who does the judging?

Mar 18, 2010 4:16 PM

4 It is considered in every other profession. Mar 18, 2010 4:16 PM

5 There's not necessarily a correlation between competence and the number ofyears since ordination.

Mar 18, 2010 4:28 PM

6 The ability and willingness of a congregation to compensate clergy should be, atleast in part, the congregation's decision. After years of struggling to meetdiocesan minimums, thinking that it would be easier once we got there, we findourselves unable to afford full time clergy once again. Perhaps compensationshould be at least partially based on parish growth (or decrease), as opposed tosize.

Mar 18, 2010 4:31 PM

7 This practice often occurs in the business world and I think clergy accountabilityshould be reviewed.

Mar 18, 2010 4:31 PM

8 It is very difficult to evaluate clergy performance by objective standards. How doyou objectively evaluate pastoral care, for example?

Mar 18, 2010 4:34 PM

9 I think it would increase the chances of the practice of ministry being influenced bywhat is popular rather than what is needed.

Mar 18, 2010 4:36 PM

10 part of ministry-review and mutual agreement on goals and priorities Mar 18, 2010 4:42 PM

11 Performance ratings are too subjective. An individual's personality rather thanskills would be on the line.

Mar 18, 2010 4:48 PM

12 I feel that COLA increases should be automatic, barring dire financial straits; meritraises, however, can serve to raise morale (and consistent lack thereof can havethe reverse effect.)

Mar 18, 2010 4:48 PM

2 of 14

Why or why not?

13 I am mixed on this answer--a clergy person should be doing the work, but theexpectations of clergy performance are often unrealistic, and it could be used asan excuse to not give a raise

Mar 18, 2010 4:49 PM

14 Give incentives for growing congregation, increases for continuing ed / advanceddegrees, good preaching, etc. and let him/her know why you are doing it. Howabout a bonus at Christmas for a good year???

Mar 18, 2010 4:54 PM

15 Some clergy are more capable than others.........they should be compensated fortheir abilities and gifts...........that how it works in the real world..........

Mar 18, 2010 4:59 PM

16 A congregation should be able to give feedback to its Clergy and expect aperformance to match, as long as expectations and standards have been clearlyexplained and understood by all.

Mar 18, 2010 4:59 PM

17 Having a "tenured" job that is not responsible for striving to improve performanceis not using the congregations resources wisely.

Mar 18, 2010 5:00 PM

18 THE CLERIC MAY BE DOING THE BEST THING(S) POSSIBLE FOR THEPARISH AND END UP BEING SCAPEGOAT FOR THE PROBLEMS FACINGTHE PARISH.

Mar 18, 2010 5:06 PM

19 To tricky to determine performance levels - 1 or 1 1/2 or 3.5 Mar 18, 2010 5:11 PM

20 That is how my compensation is based - on my performance, attendance, attitude,etc.

Mar 18, 2010 5:17 PM

21 Why: compensation should always be tied to quality of performanceWhy not: clergy performance measurement is too subjective

Mar 18, 2010 5:18 PM

22 hard work pays off Mar 18, 2010 5:19 PM

23 I believe I am worth more than the minimum. Mar 18, 2010 5:20 PM

24 Just showing up is hardly a valid reason for being paid adequately. Perfomancesurely plays a role.

Mar 18, 2010 5:23 PM

25 Although extremely difficult to evaluate, incentives need to be built into thecompensation in ways that will promote institutional health and also value thebroader missions and goals of congregations. I recognize that this will devaluecertain aspects of priestly ministry simply because those success are either notwell known or easily evaluated: eg. good preachers may be better compensatedthat good pastoral counselors.

As one who attempted unsuccessfully develop a mutual ministry evaluation (theRector left before it was completed), I think the Church does a disservice inpretending that Clergy salaries are a source of potential resentment and mis-communication and mis-undertanding, unless salaries are tied to performance,along with other metrics. (Paradoxically, I am also a clergy spouse and have beendependent on a clergy salary.)

Mar 18, 2010 5:25 PM

26 affects the size and morale of the congrgation-not so much a "consideration" as a"factor"

Mar 18, 2010 5:29 PM

27 Performance is hard to evaluate and is a divisive subject. Mar 18, 2010 5:34 PM

28 But we need to be very careful about what we mean by "performance" becausesome of the best gifts of clergy are intangible.

Mar 18, 2010 5:43 PM

29 But only if goals are defined, metrics are defined and an objective and accuratemethod is in place to analyze performance against the established metrics

Mar 18, 2010 5:45 PM

30 I wouldn't want to be spending money on a dud. Mar 18, 2010 5:58 PM

31 Yes--with the bishop or Canon involved so that it is not all up to those with whomthe clergy have a pastoral relationship. Most clergy work hard--very hard--compensation that acknowledges hard working, effective ministry--even ministryof excellence-- increases morale in a way that is really important given some ofthe more challenging aspects of this vocation.

Mar 18, 2010 5:59 PM

32 There may be a deficiency and if not resolved after a performance review thensalary should be considered.

Mar 18, 2010 6:01 PM

3 of 14

Why or why not?

33 Because I believe that benefits can be, an perhaps ought to be an incentive toone's performance as it is in the secular world.

Mar 18, 2010 6:05 PM

34 any salary is tied to performance. Mar 18, 2010 6:07 PM

35 Good work should be acknowledge! Mar 18, 2010 6:08 PM

36 I'm not sure that "clergy performance" can be easily assessed by thecongregation. Much of what a clergy person does is on a personal level and notwidely known.

Mar 18, 2010 6:09 PM

37 Clergy, like laypersons, need to accountable for meeting certain standards ofperformance in order to expect compensation increases. Expectations will differfrom parish to parish.

Mar 18, 2010 6:13 PM

38 I think it should be a part of the whole picture Mar 18, 2010 6:14 PM

39 Longevity is not an adequate indication of whether clergy should recieve payincreases. Our long term clergy has essentially "checked out" on serving thecongregation; yet he is peeved that he is not being adequately compensated.

Mar 18, 2010 6:17 PM

40 A congregation should not be required to pay poor leadership. Mar 18, 2010 6:24 PM

41 How do you measure performance? Mar 18, 2010 6:24 PM

42 Of course. I think individual parishes should have much more automony in termsof pay for clergy. If a larger parish wishes to put more of their annual budget intooutreach or programing and less into clergy compensation, that should be theirdecision. Any priest is free to say no to a particular pay package or try tonegotiate a different package.

Mar 18, 2010 6:25 PM

43 set goal and grow ministry Mar 18, 2010 6:25 PM

44 I feel well-done evaluations are healthy and see no reason why clergy should beexempt.

Mar 18, 2010 6:27 PM

45 Our previous priest was getting a large salary and was not even making 3 pastoralvisits a week. His behavior has led to a great loss of congregation. We shouldhave been able to have a say in his compensation even though he had the vestryin his hands.

Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM

46 The church is not a business. Though outcomes of a program need assessing,compensation based on a business model doesn't value gifts and talents thatcan't be quantified.

Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM

47 1. Ministry should be seen as a community issue and evaulated on communitygoals; 2. Much of what the clergy does or doesn't is confidential, some of itpolitical, and pastoral; 3. everyone has there own idea how time should be spent;4. ministry is often very subjective; 5. evaluating ministry will create a pull towardmediocre

Mar 18, 2010 6:35 PM

48 Yes, Performance is a consideration is almost every type of employment Mar 18, 2010 6:45 PM

49 Absolutely! Giving clergy a larger "bonus" or "raise" etc. would give themsomething to strive for, you know, if doing God's work isn't enough. It seems thiswould help eliminate the behavior of a stagnant clergy person that is just doing theminimum of what's required in order for them to get paid increased pay.

Mar 18, 2010 6:47 PM

50 The criteria for judging the clergy's performance would need to be defined first. Mar 18, 2010 6:51 PM

51 Too many variables, too subjective Mar 18, 2010 6:57 PM

52 Clergy should be held to some performance standards to reflect the mission,vision, and goals of the congregation.

Mar 18, 2010 7:03 PM

53 Why are priests any different than other employed individual? Mar 18, 2010 7:06 PM

54 Just as in any profession, one should be rewarded/compensated for a job welldone.

Mar 18, 2010 7:15 PM

55 Especially, if you want them to remain with the parish. Mar 18, 2010 7:17 PM

56 Yes, but still within some sort of minimum salary structure Mar 18, 2010 7:19 PM

57 offers an incentive as well as rewarding for a job well done Mar 18, 2010 7:20 PM

58 tricky question, who does the evaluating? Mar 18, 2010 7:33 PM

4 of 14

Why or why not?

59 In the mainstream of employment, compensation is linked to performance. Mar 18, 2010 7:38 PM

60 Mediocrity should be challenged, not rewarded. Clergy, being human before andafter ordination, need accountability. Evaluation is tricky unless it is well managedby competent people.

Mar 18, 2010 7:54 PM

61 If the clergy is not doing their job, they should not be compensated due to lengthof time in a parish. There is always someone out there willing to give their all andhopefully to bring the parish a new sense of direction. Like many businesses, ifyou are not performing than it is time to look for a replacement. Today you have tolook at the church as a business.

Mar 18, 2010 8:08 PM

62 It is too subjective. Mar 18, 2010 8:14 PM

63 Because everyone needs to recognize how his/her performance is viewed byhis/her constituents.

Mar 18, 2010 8:28 PM

64 Because that is one of the most important factors is parish growth. There arecertainly other factors such as demographics and geographic location but clergyperformance is prime IMO

Mar 18, 2010 8:28 PM

65 My main reservation would be, "performance" measured how, and by whom?"Success" in terms of membership and attendance figures, or pledge & plateincome? The rector of a small congregation in an area with declining populationisn't necessarily "performing" at a lower level than the rector of the big, richchurch. In one sense, the present system of compensation based on Type I,Type II, etc. congregations might be an implicit pay system based on"performance." It gives the priest an incentive to keep looking for a bigger, richerchurch to be the rector of, so she or he can feel successful at what he or she isdoing. If we went to a more socialist system that compensated according toperformance only, no matter the size or NOI of the parish, what sort ofperformance would we be looking for? The increments for years of ordainedservice presuppose that experience translates into some sort of more matureperformance, but I doubt any congregations even look at those steps for years ofservice, as long as they're complying with the minimum.

Mar 18, 2010 8:31 PM

66 There should be some pre-agreed upon performance-based standards. If thosestandards aren't met, the clergy isn't doing his/her job.

Mar 18, 2010 8:42 PM

67 It is very important to know the congregation has good leadership in all areas. Mar 18, 2010 8:52 PM

68 I think there is merit in finding a way to do this, but not at the risk of underminingthe minimum compensation guidelines. I haven't a clue how this might beimplemented - it seems fraught with difficulties.

Mar 18, 2010 8:59 PM

69 The "performance" of the congregation is at least as important. Mar 18, 2010 9:06 PM

70 I really don't know how it can be realistically measured. Much of what clergy do isconfidential.

Mar 18, 2010 9:11 PM

71 If we truly consider the minister to be "mutual" then how do we evaluate theperformance of lay leaders and others who serve in the congregation orinstitution? If we do consider performance, how does that work with our theologyof call and vocation for priests and deacons? How do we work with the tension of"Call/Vocation" versus "Work/Job/Hired"?

Mar 18, 2010 9:22 PM

72 Increases in compensation should be based on performance, with a small built-incost of living adjustment, clearly not the absurd increases the convention votes ineach year.

Mar 18, 2010 9:39 PM

73 Clergy compensation is a great burden for the congregation, which should feel it'sgetting its money's worth. Also, people are more likely to support clergy who areperceived as doing a good job.

Mar 18, 2010 9:53 PM

74 There are no evaluation instruments to rate clergy performance. I imagine if yourated any clergy person on the eight areas in question #7 the average would be 4.What number do you establish as a satisfactory standard? Clergy performance isdifficult if not impossible to measure. Secondly, who does the measuring. Vestry?Congregants? Bishop's Office? Self-Evaluation? Lets drop this concept.

Mar 18, 2010 10:00 PM

5 of 14

Why or why not?

75 There is usuaqlly a contract or letter of agreement to which clergy andcongregation endorse. If the clergy do not live up to their contract they should notbe rewarded. If the congregation defaults the clergy should have recourse, eitherby resignation or mediation.

Mar 18, 2010 10:12 PM

76 Quality should be rewarded. Mar 18, 2010 10:25 PM

77 It is like any other position in an office, you are rated by what you accomplish. Mar 18, 2010 10:28 PM

78 It already is. Mar 18, 2010 10:34 PM

79 There has to be some consideration of performance but it can't an excuse forunderpaying clergy.

Mar 18, 2010 10:42 PM

80 Because we had an extremely negative clergy experience and there was no'recourse' with the compensation - it should be an incentive to do all a priest isexpected to do for a parish.

Mar 18, 2010 10:53 PM

81 Merit raises acknowledge performance. At least part of the increase should bebased on merit.

Mar 18, 2010 11:29 PM

82 Who evaluates? Standards? Mar 18, 2010 11:48 PM

83 yes i do good performance brings more people into the church hopefully bringingin more pledges and then more money to pay for higher salary

Mar 19, 2010 12:09 AM

84 It just makes sense - there are rewards to good, solid work! Mar 19, 2010 12:18 AM

85 A base salary should be established and expected too much subjectiveness in"evalating" clergy

Mar 19, 2010 12:36 AM

86 Performance is a traditional element of salary review in all (or certainly most)occupations. However, if the priest is not performing up to expectations, thoseexpectations should be clearly defined and a plan implemented to get them met. Ifthey are still not met, the matter should be referred to the bishop.

Mar 19, 2010 12:41 AM

87 How will you change or encourage behavior if it is not rewarded? Mar 19, 2010 12:50 AM

88 If the parish is able to grow performance should be awarded. Mar 19, 2010 1:06 AM

89 I think the clergy person and the congregation, through the vestry, are mutuallyresponsible for achieving the goals of the parish.

Mar 19, 2010 1:29 AM

90 It sounds like a can of worms we need not get in to.The difficulties of deciding who "judges" the level of performance, and setting themetrics for the same sounds contrary to (or at least not helpful to) the nature of the job andministries of the clergy.The current system of allowing clergy and vestry to work problems out with mutualrespect works well.

Mar 19, 2010 2:14 AM

91 Good work should be rewarded Mar 19, 2010 2:20 AM

92 This is a way of informing one another of expectations and outcomes andcommunicating with one another.

Mar 19, 2010 2:37 AM

93 compensation in every other professional field depends partly on performance Mar 19, 2010 2:41 AM

94 The contract should be honored. Negociations on performance are a separateissue.

Mar 19, 2010 2:55 AM

95 It is difficult to gain agreement among all members of a congregation as to howwell the clergy have performed, because of differing viewpoints (as in Question 7above).

Mar 19, 2010 3:09 AM

6 of 14

Why or why not?

96 but the criteria for evaluation must be clearly stated. Larger parishes typically paylarger salaries which is a form of clergy performance. Years of service and formaleducation are easy to quantify but don't always indicate the quality ofperformance. Aging clergy are near the top of the salary scale but may beslowing down re performance. I have heard the comparison made of one personwith twelve years of experience and another with one year of experience twelvetimes. Evaluation of performance is so difficult to do that I am tempted to checkno simply for that reason. And when salaries are generally low, it is tempting tosay that everyone deserves increases across the board. Equal pay for equal worksounds like a fine principle but difficult to achieve when parishes are not equal. Ichecked yes even though I am not certain that it is possible to do. Good luck!

Mar 19, 2010 4:03 AM

97 I PUT THIS IN CAPS DELIBERATELY. CLERGY EVALUATION ISEXCEEDINGLY IMPORTANT. WHILE IT SHOULD NOT BE USED AS ANINSTRUMENT TO PUNISH CLERGY, IT IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST - CLERGYSHOULD BE GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY TO EVALUATE THEMSELVESUSING THE SAME INSTRUMENT AS IS GIVEN TO A CAREFULLY SELECTEDCOMMITTEE THAT SHOULD INCLUDE NOT ONLY THE RECTOR'S FANS BUTALSO MEMBERS OF HIS/HER LOYAL OPPOSITION. THIS IS A MEANS TOACHIEVE CLERGY MATURATION, GROWTH, AND SUCCESS AND ALSO (ASNOTED IN MY PREVIOUS SURVEY) PARISH GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT.I AM ONLY LICENSED IN THE DIOCESE OF MAINE SO I DID NOT WANT TOSKEW THE SURVEY RESULTS ON SUCH A SENSITIVE MATTER, BUT ICANNOT OVEREMPHASIZE THE EVALUATION PIECE (NOTE, PLEASE, THATI DON'T USE THE WORD PERFORMANCE - I SIMPLY PREFER EVALUATION.

Mar 19, 2010 11:16 AM

98 as an employee, the clergy are subject to the same conditions as otheremployees in the job sector

Mar 19, 2010 11:24 AM

99 Mutual ministry should be a factor, not just clergy "performance", but how well thecongregation is functionsing and meeting their mnistry goals

Mar 19, 2010 12:24 PM

100 Some reach an age/length of being clergy that the leadership and enthusiasmwanes and they coast until retirement

Mar 19, 2010 12:33 PM

101 I know this is a hard one to rate, and some of the best people would opt for theleast pay, however pay should be based on performance, not just "hanging inthere".

Mar 19, 2010 12:42 PM

102 after the diocese minimums are attained and COLA are provided. Mar 19, 2010 12:57 PM

103 If clergy think it is a 9 to 5 job they are in the wrong profession. Sitting behind adesk and going to meetings ought to be a very small part of parish ministry. Theparish comes first and ALL else second.

Mar 19, 2010 2:21 PM

104 A Ministry review for all the parish should establish and reflect Baptismal Ministryis everyone's responsibility. The clergy person should be providing the leadershipand example but if only technical changes are taking place then over time theMinistry of all will not be at the level it needs to be. If there is a clear mission,goals and objectives that the vestry and the community have set then everyonehas a stake in the accomplishment of that mission. Ultimately the clergy personnot only shares in the process but needs to be responsive to that mission, aspastor, teacher, coach and cheerleader. I serve a parish that is mostly blue collarand hard working folk and they are not getting raises and I feel for now I shouldnot either based on the economy.

Mar 19, 2010 2:47 PM

105 Experience in government and private business has shown the effectiveness ofhaving clearly defined objectives by both the lay church (i.e. the vestry) and theclergy. These should be discussed, agreed upon, and periodically (annually?)reviewed. Even if not linked to compensation, this system should be mandated.

Mar 19, 2010 2:59 PM

106 If the priest is not performing at least satisfactorily, a discussion about continuedemployment should occur. Wage increases should also reflect what is happeningin the community. Automatic increases are not appropriate when members of theparish are losing their jobs or taking wage decreases.

Mar 19, 2010 3:06 PM

107 A divided question. Incompetence shouldn't be rewarded, at the same time howare the shades of grey determined?

Mar 19, 2010 3:10 PM

7 of 14

Why or why not?

108 It's considered in any other position, in a church or elsewhere. Mar 19, 2010 3:15 PM

109 I'd rather a maybe--is the clegy person doing what is in the LOA? Is it working forthe congregation and clergy person?

Mar 19, 2010 5:11 PM

110 We live in a society that places great importance on money; compensation istypicallythe greatest expense in a parish.

Mar 19, 2010 5:45 PM

111 Objectives should be set for parish, vestry, clergy each year, results evaluated todetermine success or need to change direction, but the results should not be usedto determine salary, but to be a major part of the planning process for the comingyear. The relationship between parish and clergy is not a employment contract,but one of mutual commitment to the work of the church.

Mar 19, 2010 6:03 PM

112 yes, with a but... expectations need to be clearly understood by the clergy andthose who are doing the evaluation.

Mar 19, 2010 7:18 PM

113 It is in secular occupations, why not for clergy? Mar 19, 2010 7:42 PM

114 Very few other jobs assume that another year of experience equals animprovement in performance that deserves an annual increase in compensation.A mediocre priest with 30 years of experience is still a mediocre priest who shouldnot be paid as much as an outstanding priest.

Mar 19, 2010 8:47 PM

115 Who could agree on a criteria? Besides the current formula already compensatesmore for a larger congregation - which at least is an identifiable and quantifiablecritieria.

Mar 19, 2010 9:20 PM

116 A priest who performs well is more valuable to the congregation than one whodoesn't, and would be more desirable to others... performance has to be relatedto compensation, or we set up a sinecure and will lose the most able people toplaces willing to pay them more. Those priests who don't want to take all they areentitled to, or who object to the market-driven structure, can of course donatesome of their income back to the congregation or to other recipients.

Mar 19, 2010 9:28 PM

117 It seems needlessly adversarial and stress producing, to have a performancereview and tie compensation to it.

Mar 19, 2010 9:31 PM

118 Yes, as long as the method used for evaluation is something like the Mutual Studyof Ministry; not as much an individual job evaluation.

Mar 19, 2010 9:48 PM

119 there should be a review process once every three years that allows for honestand open feedback in a Christian manner. Reviews that are currently used arenot effective and often misguided. Once in office, the priest has tenure, it seems,and it is difficult to bring about change that may be needed.

Mar 19, 2010 9:50 PM

120 There may be some circumstances, although I have a hard time envisioning them,in which a clergy person would not be fulfilling the basic duties. In that case,performance should be considered.

Mar 19, 2010 10:54 PM

121 Too difficult to evaluate Mar 20, 2010 2:41 AM

122 If pay was related to performance then Rectors would be more inclined to meetthe needs of the parish. Of course, the Diocese would need to be involved in theperformance assessment in cooperation with the parish. Basically, the Diocesewould need to have a better sense of what is happening with the individualparishes.

Mar 20, 2010 3:41 AM

123 It is hard work, and results are important. It is not a welfare program or aretirement program.

Mar 20, 2010 10:54 AM

124 I believe there should be set rates, as not everyone may agree as to what is goodor bad clergy performance

Mar 20, 2010 12:41 PM

8 of 14

Why or why not?

125 We had a HIGHLY compensated rector because of the formula for years ofexperience. However, this did not translate into high performance. After 30 yearsin the priesthood, he was "coasting to retirement" and despite action from thevestry asking him to increase his work in pastoral care, it never happened. Ourcongregation is still embittered about the amount of money we were REQUIREDto pay by diocesan formula, when we were not getting our money's worth forabout 4 years. It is the greatest source of unaddressed tension in our parish. Forsome, it affects giving and relationships with the clergy. In any other job,performance would be factored in and such failure to perform would be reason foradministrative discipline. The diocesan formula leaves parishes powerless toaddress such problems.

Mar 20, 2010 1:27 PM

126 Compensation should be predetermined in relationship to clearly definedperformance needs/goals for any particular church per location, size, communityneeds, etc., with clearly defined possible adjustments to be made on evaluation ofchanging needs (e.g., goals met and stable, new challenges, etc.). "Contracts"should contain clearly defined circumstances under which compensation might bealtered.

Mar 20, 2010 1:47 PM

127 There should be an annual review of goals set by both the clergy and thecongregation. Clergy can not meet expectations without support and participationof the congregation. On the other hand some clergy seem to take advantage ofthe good will offered in the compensation package which leaves resistance to anincrease in salary. For clergy is this a JOB or a MINISTRY. Adequatecompensation should be given for the ministry.

Mar 20, 2010 2:43 PM

128 Excellence should always be rewarded. How to objectively evaluate is thequestion.

Mar 20, 2010 3:07 PM

129 I don't know if clergy compensation can be decided from performance, how todevelop work parameters when each situation is so individualize. I do feel,however, there is a need for some kind of clergy evaluation. Aside fromcompensation, I feel the clergy need some formal input regarding their work. Aguide that could used by parishes when discussing areas of concerns that mightdevelop in a clergy's performance. We need to support our clergy in their growthboth for their sake and ours.

Mar 20, 2010 5:01 PM

130 The mutual ministry review is an excellent time to talk about expectations of thecongregation and the clergy and the ability of both to meet the needs of the other.Having an honest conversation about performance provides an opportunity forhonest dialogue and expectations.

Mar 20, 2010 5:18 PM

131 Clergy performance is paramount in increasing membership and pledging toenable raising salary above the minimum required.

Mar 20, 2010 6:25 PM

132 Very difficult to measure Mar 20, 2010 10:50 PM

133 Performance is considered in every other occupation. Parishioners pledgesupport to the church and it seems right that their contributions are usedeffectively in nurturing the spiritual lives of members, developing competent layleadership as well as spreading the good news of Christ. If a parish is not alive,something is seriously wrong and should be corrected.

Mar 20, 2010 11:00 PM

134 sorry, this is also real-world, and performance as well as "call" is importance Mar 21, 2010 12:43 AM

135 Setting performance standards is an important way to communicate to the clergythe relative importance of the congregation's desires and needs.

Mar 21, 2010 1:07 AM

136 an increase over required compensation if dedicated beyond normal duties. Mar 21, 2010 1:29 AM

137 But who is to make the judgement of performance and what's worth Mar 21, 2010 3:23 AM

138 Pay should be directly linked to performance Mar 21, 2010 5:06 AM

139 Poor performance by clergy has a great impact on the congregation,diminishingattendance, etc.

Mar 21, 2010 3:05 PM

140 I feel compensation should be standardized and performance should be reviewedannually by the vestry with a neutral party as moderator.

Mar 21, 2010 3:09 PM

141 standard professional practice - the better you do - the more you should get paid Mar 21, 2010 3:54 PM

9 of 14

Why or why not?

142 There would be less hanging on until retirement. Also the congregation would feelbetter about stewardship.

Mar 21, 2010 4:19 PM

143 As with any job ,good job performance is expected. Longevity should not be theonly reason for salary increase.

Mar 21, 2010 5:38 PM

144 Clergy should be as accountable to their congregations for good work as anyother profession

Mar 21, 2010 7:07 PM

145 Because a clergy person is a professional. If we ask our sexton to do a good jobor an electrician or plumber who comes to fix something in the church building, weshould certainly demand competence from our clergy

Mar 21, 2010 9:14 PM

146 Good clergy should be rewarded. And you can find out by asking the parishonersthemselves. Like teachers, keep the ones that do a good job & the ones that arethere just to collect a fat check with bennies should get a boot out!

Mar 21, 2010 11:22 PM

147 It depends on the factors present. If the clergy is openly ignoring his duties, thenyes, some reprimand should take place. Obviously you would not be giving araise in salary to this person. But to take away a person's salary...I think aprobationary period of adjustment should take place. Obviously, if the person stillignores his job, then by all means compensation should be affected!

Mar 21, 2010 11:43 PM

148 very hard to measure. Mar 22, 2010 12:10 AM

149 When it becomes a performance based salary, it becomes based on "who's"intrepretation of performance, can become very bias. Then the clergy may alsobecome too focused on performance in certain areas of the parish, neglectingothers vs listening to God's call for the parish

Mar 22, 2010 12:43 AM

150 This should be a part of conpensation. Clergy should have goals for performanceagreed upon by the clergy and the vestry. This will aid the vestry and clergy toreview status of the church and draw plans to address future expectations andgoals.

Mar 22, 2010 1:10 AM

151 As much as it is a calling, it is also a job. Poor performance greatly affects theparish and community

Mar 22, 2010 12:33 PM

152 Nothing should be Automatic. Mar 22, 2010 1:02 PM

153 Absolutely. You get what you pay for. Mar 22, 2010 1:09 PM

154 people prefer it Mar 22, 2010 1:17 PM

155 The size of the congregation grows or shrinks, therefore the pledges, with thequality of the Rector.

Mar 22, 2010 1:19 PM

156 It is just like any job in that sense. Mar 22, 2010 1:25 PM

157 Most all jobs in management require performance evaluations when determiningcompensation, raises.

Mar 22, 2010 1:43 PM

158 In a positive way, clergy who expend their talent and skill above and beyond theaverage should be recognized and rewarded

Mar 22, 2010 1:44 PM

159 To some extent the parish's success is the responsibility of the clergy. To thatdegree, a successful parish could determine compensation.

Mar 22, 2010 1:47 PM

160 Given the semi-democratic nature of the annual meeting ( really a love fest) this ishard, but a good vestry can do it.

Mar 22, 2010 2:04 PM

161 If the compensation is not tied to performance there is a chance that they couldjust coast along.

Mar 22, 2010 2:45 PM

162 A dynamic rector is more capable of presenting a dynamic Gospel of the risenChrist.

Mar 22, 2010 3:30 PM

163 Sometimes churches get caught in the mandatory raises when they are awarethat their clergy are "coasting" toward retirement or are not satisfying otherexpectations.

Mar 22, 2010 4:01 PM

164 An excellent Minister will grow the congregation with little effort because they aretallented. They should be rewarded for growing the congregation.

Mar 22, 2010 4:45 PM

165 It is usually considered if a church is compensating on its own. Mar 22, 2010 5:10 PM

10 of 14

Why or why not?

166 If a clergy person does not perform satisfactorily there will be a lack of supportfrom the congregation, which will preclude the ability and/or desire to compensatethe clergy up to scale

Mar 22, 2010 7:56 PM

167 If clergy is not doing what is expected by his congragation in areas of importancethen he/she is not doing the work he/she was hired to do.

Mar 22, 2010 8:29 PM

168 as with any job, performance is a criteria for attracting and retaining clergy. Itshould be a mutual expectation that both vestry performance and clergyperformance be reviewed on an annual basis. Neither can grow into theexpectations or maintain expectations if a review is not held. Sadly, clergy norvestry may not be challenged to their potential w/o job reviwew and for the clergy,appropriate compenstion

Mar 22, 2010 9:48 PM

169 From past experiences elsewhere, some clergy wish to pursue missions otherthan those stated in the parish profile, or regard their position as a sinecure.

Mar 22, 2010 10:31 PM

170 If the clergy person has not met previously established and clearly communicatedperformance expectations there should not be an automatic raise in salary forlength of service.

Mar 22, 2010 10:52 PM

171 Most people have performance eval annually. Clergy is no different from any otheremployee

Mar 23, 2010 4:43 AM

172 I think there should be a standard set my the diocese rather than each individualcongregation offering its clergy merit pay. Merit pay is too subjective. Acongregation is always able to pay its clergy above the minimum set by thediocese. That is a form of merit pay.

Mar 23, 2010 12:23 PM

173 people vote with their pledges and if they are happy, they pledge more. Mar 23, 2010 1:27 PM

174 I feel that responsibility and accountability are foremost considerations in anyconsiderations of compensation.

Mar 23, 2010 1:28 PM

175 Clergy should be able to plan their budgets also - but if a clergy person has areasthat the congregation review shows as needing change/development, the dioceseshould have ways to assist in those items. If it is found that the clergy person isNOT a good fit for a parish, diocesan assistance is also needed.

Mar 23, 2010 1:52 PM

176 The best methds of evaluating clergy performance I have seen are still noteffective enough to do the task in a way that would be helpful to both clergy andcongregation

Mar 23, 2010 2:47 PM

177 IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE NOT TO....I HAVE NO IDEA WHO WOULD DECIDEWHAT WOULD BE ON AN EVALUATION...?VESTRY...? ?PARISH SURVEY??PARISH INPUT TO VESTRY?

Mar 23, 2010 4:11 PM

178 Poor performance will lead to a loss of church membership. Mar 23, 2010 7:52 PM

179 In my opinion people respond better when we have a set of goals to be measuredagainst.

Mar 24, 2010 12:25 AM

180 You never want to have a situation where someone doing a poor job gets thesame reward as someone doing a good job.

Mar 24, 2010 3:26 AM

181 Make it reflective of experience, quality of performance of duties, and personalcommitment to ministry.

Mar 24, 2010 3:42 AM

182 As with any job, performance needs to be considered. Mar 24, 2010 12:42 PM

183 There needs to be accountability, but it needs to be based on objectiveevaluations of ALL the leadership clergy and lay.

Mar 24, 2010 2:00 PM

184 All clergy should be accountable to the vestry and parishoners who pay theirsalary, and salary increases should reflect job performance as well as length ofservice. This method challenges the employee to do his best work for increasedcompensation, as well as job satisfaction.

Mar 24, 2010 2:54 PM

185 Compensation is payment for services rendered. If the services are not performedwell, then compensation should reflect that as should compensation for servicesperformed above expectations.

Mar 24, 2010 5:32 PM

186 Goals & the job discripition should be a part of their evaluation & pay. Mar 24, 2010 5:42 PM

11 of 14

Why or why not?

187 A certain level of performance should be insisted upon. Below that level,compensation should be affected.

Mar 24, 2010 6:07 PM

188 Absolutely! You must be performing well in order to expect a raise! Annualreviews of performance is a must for every parish.

Mar 24, 2010 7:27 PM

189 I believe that compensation should be tied to some form of performanceevaluation. When clergy or anyone deems their salary should be increased justbecause it is mandated by a schedule or a contract there is no incentive toimprove anything and the congregation suffers.

Mar 24, 2010 7:39 PM

190 Particularly on the up side. We would want to offer additional comp. for clergythat we wanted to retain.

Mar 24, 2010 8:25 PM

191 Both are mutually motivational but who does the judging ? business orientedCEO types or mission and pastorally oriented Christians?

Mar 24, 2010 9:32 PM

192 Difficult to evaluate, not an objective measure. Mar 24, 2010 10:13 PM

193 I think competency needs to be addressed in other ways. If a church retains itsclergy, it must pay him/her.

Mar 24, 2010 11:01 PM

194 For the same reason I think Teachers need to get out when they are no longereffective.We keep them forever even if they are not that good and keep raising their pay.

Mar 24, 2010 11:46 PM

195 Complex God issues and latent but powerful beliefs that a priest shouldnecessarily be willing to sacrifice self (and by extension, family) totally for otherscomplicate fair and reasonable assessments of performance, even when a goodperformance tool might available. At best, some kind of a bonus possibility mightwork, but even that would be problematic for the same reasons.

Mar 25, 2010 1:39 AM

196 If the clergy is not providing the level of actions that the vestry considersappropriate then the compensation such be adjusted.

Mar 25, 2010 1:52 AM

197 if a preist is not capable of performing their job satisfactory they should not begiven raises which are the same as those who od.

Mar 25, 2010 2:22 AM

198 Both the clergy and the congregation should check with each other about howhealthy they are. If clergy are not performing, the congregation needs to helpthem discern why and find appropriate ways to figure out why. If clergy arethriving, they should be amply supported - not just with money.

Mar 25, 2010 2:22 AM

199 Good work merits more compensation Mar 25, 2010 2:31 AM

200 There is a relationship between the care and leadership provided by the rectorand the size of the congregation. A larger congregation results in greaterresources to meet the needs of the parish, including clergy compensation.

Mar 25, 2010 12:04 PM

201 Job evaluation is an integral part of the growth of excellence Mar 25, 2010 12:07 PM

202 measurable and agreed upon (by all parties) criteria have not been established inthe diocese

Mar 25, 2010 12:30 PM

203 I'm unsure how such a performance review might be accomplished--the idea hasmerit, but the mechanism for evaluation could be fraught with difficulties. If, forinstance, the Wardens were charged with doing a performance evaluation andthere had been conflict between the priest and the Wardens--the church as awhole might believe the priest is doing well but the Wardens could give in topunitive desires and refuse to acknowledge the priest's contributions. MutualMinistry Review could help, but that project is cumbersome and could not reallybe done every year without being burdensome.

Mar 25, 2010 12:52 PM

204 I would expect the clergy & vestry, with input from the congregation to setreasonable & challenging goals for the forthcoming year. These can be tied tolong-range goals of say 5 years.There would be goals for clergy, goals for vestries, & goals for congregations withassistance from a diocesan person trained in long-range development & goal-setting.

Mar 25, 2010 5:38 PM

12 of 14

Why or why not?

205 It should be part of the whole packageMost every other profession uses performance as a component of totalcompensation

Mar 25, 2010 7:31 PM

206 They should be rated because of the relative cost of the clergy to tht total parishexpense.

Mar 25, 2010 9:36 PM

207 It certainly is in every other field. Mar 25, 2010 10:03 PM

208 The clergy should serve as the congregation's role model and share his/herexpectations

Mar 25, 2010 11:37 PM

209 Performance is considered in most other professions. To make payraisesautomatic can be stultifying, e.g., the lock-step syndrome which makes so manypublic sector bureaucracies stagnant.

Mar 26, 2010 1:02 AM

210 Why should someone, or in this case a church, put more money into someonewho is not producing results. What "results" means is an important conversation,but congregations who are not happy with their clergy should be able to voice thatin a concrete way. I realize this opens the door to congregations not giving raisesbecasue they just can't afford it, but to me that is the same thing as saying theyaren't really happy with their clergy.

Mar 26, 2010 2:22 PM

211 Absolutely! We're on our second rector in a row that has arrived only to bide theirtime until retirement. Decreased energy, lack of vision, negativity about beingasked to engage in pastoral care, being ineffective, harmful in interpersonalcommunications, and short-sighted in terms of vision. The behavior becomesmore about protecting a potential retirement then about caring for the very peoplewho make part of the retirement possible. The challenge is helping both vestryand priest see their mutual roles in terms of goal setting, annual review of a letterof agreement that specifies expectations mutually agreed upon by all the partiesand reviewed by the Bishop. Simply tying salary increases to time in position is aformula for disaster and potential destruction of the parish - take a long lookaround this diocese and listen to the stories, they're there and there are deepwounds related to poor performing priests in parishes that do not understand thatthey have advocacy in the Diocesan office, if they'll ask for assistance.Dysfunction reigns whenever performance measures are excluded. Have thecourage to factor this in to the future of our diocese.

Mar 26, 2010 2:24 PM

212 Having just left the Diocese and had a MSM a year ago it raises questions ofenergy of the cleric and lay leadership. In my case there was little energy on thepart of the laity in Castine.

Mar 26, 2010 2:26 PM

213 Clergy should be members of the parish, amateurs, doing it for love not money.Roland Allen and the Dutch Dominicans and the French Worker Priests have theanswer.

Mar 26, 2010 2:30 PM

214 Clergy presence, pastoral leadership in the parish and community influences sizeof congregation and strength of stewardship on all levels. Small parishes cannotafford the luxury of paying ineffectual priests predetermined compensationpackages.

Mar 26, 2010 2:40 PM

215 Yes, but a minor factor. The problem is in measuring performance. For example,list in No 7 does not include "Providing spiritual leadership" as an importantresponsibility (Note: I didn't answer Question 7 because the items are toomechanical)

Mar 26, 2010 2:43 PM

216 They are respectable and caring people in ALL matters pertaining to theCHURCH!!

Mar 26, 2010 2:52 PM

217 This fosters the illusion that clergy should be able to do everything well. Much ofwhat we do best is hidden and has to stay hidden. This determination turns the"best" priests into a star and I think this is absolutely wrong for the spirituality ofthe priest and the congregation. We need an entirely different model for whatmakes a "good" priest, and for the congregation to get off their butts, stopexpecting the priest to do it all, and begin to share in the whole ministry of thechurch.

Mar 26, 2010 2:53 PM

13 of 14

Why or why not?

218 Everyone needs incentives, and sometimes dedicated service to God and thechurch becomes insular and is not visible to the congragation.

Mar 26, 2010 3:48 PM

219 Believe that compensation and competency is a fact of life in today's job market. Mar 26, 2010 4:11 PM

220 Evaluating clergy performance can be too hard to measure Mar 26, 2010 4:37 PM

221 Clergy should be evaluated regularly. It shouldn't be any different than how itworks in other occupations.

Mar 26, 2010 4:47 PM

222 Because ALL compensation in all fields should be based on performance, notsimply years of service. Rewarding someone for simply staying in a job for a longtime does little encourage good preformance, and actually dissuades goodperformers from taking the positions.

Mar 26, 2010 6:38 PM

223 If you don't like the clergy's performance, then don't renew the contract--or at leastbegin the process and give said clergy the opportunity to address issues.

Mar 26, 2010 7:48 PM

224 If the church is loosing its members left and right, it cannot afford to increase thesalary of the priest.

Mar 26, 2010 9:27 PM

225 I think any job should base compensation on performance. Mar 26, 2010 9:53 PM

226 a well functioning Clergy person would motivate members to increase theirstewardship, therefore more ability to pay the right person

Mar 27, 2010 2:47 PM

227 performance evals re necessary as a yard stick to determine if the clergy are bleto lead, grow and minister to the congregation.

Mar 27, 2010 7:13 PM

228 silly question Mar 27, 2010 7:37 PM

229 Responsibility is key to success Mar 28, 2010 9:08 PM

230 Because the parish should have that incentive as needed should the clergy underperform in a critical area of responsibility.

Mar 28, 2010 10:29 PM

231 Likre any other job , there should be evaluation for performance Mar 29, 2010 11:08 AM

232 One's compensation should be tied to performance. It's the American way. Mar 29, 2010 12:42 PM

233 Because leadership matters, and compensation should reflect competence. Mar 29, 2010 2:17 PM

234 I feel that in our parish we have been told what we had to pay by the diocese. Ithink clergy should be judged as other professions are and have a performanceportion as part of the salary.

Mar 29, 2010 3:59 PM

235 There are an infinite number of good works that a clergy person good justifiablyengage in. Compensation should be focused on those measurable things that result inincreased membership, increased revenue and meet defined specific goals set bythe parish and diocese.

Mar 29, 2010 6:27 PM

236 What you want most is for a clergy person to put their heart into their work. Howdo you measure that? It is an odd thing - this relationship between pastor andcongregation (i.e. employer). It is so easy for power to be misused - on eitherside. It is particularly difficult for a congregation to understand and fairly evaluatethe "performance" of their pastor. How do we set meaningful objectives?

Mar 30, 2010 12:51 AM

237 I think the vestry should be evaluating the performance of its pastor on a regularbasis. That evaluation should include informtion from the congregation to help thevestry determine whether the needs of that particular church community are beingconsidered by its pastor. I also suggest that having the rector conduct the annualmeeting may discourage congregation input. Why not have the head of the vestryconduct that meeting? It's the only time that you are likely to have an opportunityto have the congregation together to address their concerns, and it's lessintimidating to presnt your thoughts to a church member like the senior warden.

Mar 30, 2010 1:19 PM

238 Good performance, good pay - but there never seems to be enough money to domore than to meet the minimum salary required.

Mar 31, 2010 12:05 AM

239 Most jobs do not have a gauranteed raise every year. Performance matters. Apr 2, 2010 5:28 PM

240 It seems reasonable to try to compensate well people who do their job well. Thisis a highly complex issue and multiple factors need to be taken into account.

Apr 3, 2010 9:07 PM

14 of 14

Why or why not?

241 SO long as there are fair and objective criteria - should be developed by theVestry.

Apr 3, 2010 9:46 PM

242 I feel that clergy compensation is to enable those who are called to fulfill theircalling. It is not a reward for doing the job.If there are concerns with clergy performance, this is some thing the vestry mustseek to resolve, working with the clergy person and help from the diocese. It is notsomething that should be part of a "bonus" situation.

Apr 4, 2010 2:23 AM

243 Who will judge the preformance? Who will make the list of what is importent forthe carring out of His will ,for the good of the Kingdome?

Apr 5, 2010 5:03 PM

244 This is an accepted practice in many career positions Apr 6, 2010 9:52 AM

245 The valuation by congregational size, as compensation is done now, is totallyamiss. With a majority of small congregations and their importance, this goodwork deserves fairer compensation.

Apr 6, 2010 5:26 PM

246 What standard norms are to be used to evaluate their performance? Apr 6, 2010 6:52 PM

247 self evident. "The laborer is worthy of his hire" Apr 6, 2010 8:44 PM

248 Is "clergy performance" based on the size of the congregation? A dynamic priestmay have a small congregation. Therefore I do not support compensation basedon merit, because I fear that could be subjective.

Apr 7, 2010 2:13 AM

249 It would seem to be obvious that clergy performance would help dictatecompensation, since simply "phoning it in" would be detrimental to the parish'shealth and happiness. The Rector should be expected to perform to his/herhighest level of competency; otherwise, why bother? Every parish, large or smalldeserves the Rector's highest level of performance at least 80% of the time.Anything less would be considered "low performance" and open to criticalevaluation, at the very least. That does not absolve the congregation of its ownhigh level of performance! It's definitely a two-way street!

Apr 7, 2010 5:14 PM

250 Results determine compensation Apr 9, 2010 3:45 AM

251 if we regard them as professionals at corporate level , then they need todemonstrate competency and perhaps be subject to peer review. I have concernsabout the amount of total benefits given...

Apr 11, 2010 1:37 AM

252 I believe performance should always have some bearing in compensation. Thechallenge is, how do you measure your clergy's performance?

Apr 12, 2010 10:47 AM

253 Each parish has so many different ideas of what constitutes a "good" priest that itwould become a political football and totally distract from the business of missionon the part of clergy and laity.

May 5, 2010 10:33 PM

254 While I believe clergy should have a deep calling, since the emphasis hasbecome salary, they should be evaluated and compensation should have someconnection to their performance. There are some really poor priests out there whowould be long gone from 'normal' jobs.

May 7, 2010 4:19 PM

255 Very hardto determine. Would you reduce compensation if sermons began toshow diminished inspiration? Loss of patroral incentive or energy?

May 7, 2010 4:22 PM

1 of 4


Please check the sentence that best describes your congregation:

Response

Percent

Response

Count

We currently compensate one

full-time clergy person at

diocesan levels of pay and

benefits.

45.5% 155

We currently compensate a part-

time clergy person at diocesan

levels of pay and benefits.

22.9% 78

We currently compensate an

assistant as well as a full-time

clergy person.

8.8% 30

We use a retired person as a priest

in charge because he/she is more

affordable/available.

4.4% 15

I don't know. 5.9% 20

Other 12.6% 43



skipped question 50


1 have a part-time interim Mar 18, 2010 4:31 PM

2 We cluster with 4 other congregations and pay one full time priest. Mar 18, 2010 4:31 PM

3 We have two part-time clergy people at this point but are moving to one full-timepriest. We also have a deacon who is not compensated, and several retiredpriests who assist liturgically on occasion but are not compensated.

Mar 18, 2010 4:36 PM

4 We use a retired person, because he was available and is awesome Mar 18, 2010 4:46 PM

5 We also have a part-time administrative assistant - thank goodness! Mar 18, 2010 5:17 PM

6 quarter-time Mar 18, 2010 5:20 PM

7 A full time Rector left for another parish last month. Mar 18, 2010 5:25 PM

8 Full-time working to reach appropriate level for years of service Mar 18, 2010 5:29 PM

9 reflects early 09 realities. Interim situation is slightly different Mar 18, 2010 5:59 PM

10 have a ful time priest who is not compensated well. Mar 18, 2010 6:05 PM

11 Presently have no employed clergy person at all -- using combination of supplypriest and deacon.

Mar 18, 2010 6:09 PM

2 of 4


12 We use an enthusiastic, committed retired person--not because she is moreaffordable.

Mar 18, 2010 6:16 PM

13 Full time at somewhat less than years in service requirement - still grossly overcompensated!

Mar 18, 2010 6:17 PM

14 We are using supply clergy. Mar 18, 2010 6:24 PM

15 underpay full time clergy Mar 18, 2010 6:25 PM

16 We have an interim at present Mar 18, 2010 6:27 PM

17 part time interim, part time assistant Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM

18 combined with other churches in area to afford one priest Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM

19 we compensate one full time clergy but not fully at diocesan levels Mar 18, 2010 6:35 PM

20 full-time, but without an increase since call Mar 18, 2010 6:57 PM

21 we are headed to discernment but have stalled Mar 18, 2010 8:14 PM

22 searching Mar 18, 2010 8:34 PM

23 We currently have an interim who is 75% and a pastoral associate (deacon). Mar 18, 2010 9:11 PM

24 Employ one below diocesan levels - and we can't afford that. Mar 18, 2010 9:39 PM

25 We are in an interim situation. Mar 18, 2010 9:53 PM

26 one full-time person a bit below the diocesan levels Mar 18, 2010 11:48 PM

27 At an interim, but currently no clergy serving regularly. Mar 19, 2010 12:18 AM

28 We do not compensate our full time clergy at diocesan levels for pay because ourcongragation does not practice stewardship

Mar 19, 2010 12:36 AM

29 I am not currently serving a congregation so the answer is from last congregation Mar 19, 2010 1:29 AM

30 Currently without permanent clergy Mar 19, 2010 3:09 AM

31 The Aroostook cluster of five churches share the cost of one full-time clergyperson. Four deacons assist along with several lay worship leaders andpreachers.

Mar 19, 2010 4:03 AM

32 our congregation is in transition Mar 19, 2010 12:24 PM

33 Retired priest as Designated Supply; Sundays + Units only Mar 19, 2010 12:42 PM

34 1/4 time! Mar 19, 2010 12:57 PM

35 The parish is vacant and seem to be content with supply clergy. That ought tochange but the leadership are happy with supply clergy because supply clergy arecheap.

Mar 19, 2010 2:21 PM

36 Due to increased insurance costs I believe they are compensating at a fair leveland they are very close to the right level.

Mar 19, 2010 2:47 PM

37 Currently full time; about to drop to half time Mar 19, 2010 3:15 PM

38 Slightly less Mar 19, 2010 5:45 PM

39 I am a canonical resident, but not living in the diocese. Mar 19, 2010 7:18 PM

40 our priest left for another church Mar 20, 2010 1:44 AM

41 We have had part-time interim rectors for quite some time. Mar 20, 2010 3:41 AM

42 We compensate a part-time interim and a part-time associate. We will becompensating 1 full-time rector. The compensation of the interim has also been asore topic for many in the parish, as it has echoed the same problem we had withthe former rector re: performance.

Mar 20, 2010 1:27 PM

43 one full time; close to diocesan level of pay and benefits Mar 20, 2010 10:50 PM

44 We (until very recently) compensated one full-time clergy at less than thediocesan standard. That is only because we went from a Level I to a Level IIchurch due to static income standards (bracket creep). Our congregation sizestayed the same and the buying power of our pledges did not increase, but wewere suddenly expected to increase the Clergy Compensation.

Mar 21, 2010 1:07 AM

45 interim Mar 21, 2010 3:23 AM

3 of 4


46 We compensate at a level higher than proscribed. Mar 21, 2010 2:28 PM

47 Now moving from full-time to part-time. Mar 21, 2010 4:19 PM

48 We compensate part-time clergy and I assume at diocesan levels, but am notpositive of that!

Mar 21, 2010 11:43 PM

49 We share clergy with other congergation Mar 22, 2010 1:10 AM

50 We have an interm part-time and a deacon as an assistant. Mar 22, 2010 8:29 PM

51 clergy refused to take step level increase provided Mar 22, 2010 9:48 PM

52 Our congregation is so active, a full-time clergy is needed. Mar 23, 2010 1:52 PM

53 I BELIEVE WE COMPENSATE ONE FULL TIME CLERGY PERSON AT THEBEST

Mar 23, 2010 4:11 PM

54 Currently using a retired person as interim Mar 23, 2010 4:49 PM

55 We currently compensate one full-time clergy person below diocesan levels ofpay.

Mar 24, 2010 2:49 AM

56 We have had Diocese assistance with our Clergy salary Mar 24, 2010 5:42 PM

57 We are currently staffing at full time. When salary and benefits are taken intoconsideration we are meeting diocesan levels.

Mar 24, 2010 7:39 PM

58 1 full time and 2 part time Mar 24, 2010 10:13 PM

59 We compensate a "tentmaker" on a quarter-time basis with diocesan help. Mar 25, 2010 1:39 AM

60 part time at other than diocesan level Mar 25, 2010 1:52 AM

61 We share the expense with another church Mar 25, 2010 12:07 PM

62 using supply clergy at present Mar 25, 2010 12:30 PM

63 I believe our Deacon is not paid, except for expenses. Mar 25, 2010 10:03 PM

64 In 2010 we will need to assume total health benefits. Mar 25, 2010 11:37 PM

65 We will soon reduce our clergy person to half time and the anger of the rector ispalable. Ministry will suffer and deep wounds will grow anew in a church that hassuffered many wounds over the years.

Mar 26, 2010 2:24 PM

66 The mission of [EDITED TO REMOVE CHURCH NAME] is to save money andhave no desire for ministry and outreach.

Mar 26, 2010 2:26 PM

67 As a retired priest in [EDITED TO REMOVE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION] Idon't know and have left some questions blank.

Mar 26, 2010 2:30 PM

68 We can afford ANY priest except a supply on Sunday. Mar 26, 2010 2:49 PM

69 I do NOT know ALL the reasons! Mar 26, 2010 2:52 PM

70 We have a 3/4 time interim and a part time pastoral associate that is paid, but notat the diocesan levels

Mar 26, 2010 4:37 PM

71 Church in interim Mar 26, 2010 4:47 PM

72 our full time clergy is paid below diocesan guidelines Mar 27, 2010 2:47 PM

73 We currently have two part time clergy. Mar 29, 2010 2:17 PM

74 I believe we are above what is required. Mar 29, 2010 3:59 PM

75 Interim Mar 31, 2010 12:05 AM

76 As far as I know --I'm not on the vestry, but if we were below the level, I assumewe would have been told of the problem. We are also fortunate to have retiredclergy who assist.

Apr 4, 2010 2:23 AM

77 Almost as above. Up against pension plan compensation limits with semi-retiredclergy person.

Apr 6, 2010 5:26 PM

78 Compensate one full time clergy close to Diocesan levels (within $2000 a year). Apr 6, 2010 6:52 PM

79 I think we have one FT clergy and use supply priests as needed during the priest'svacations.

Apr 7, 2010 2:13 AM

80 we are in discernment at this time Apr 16, 2010 2:10 PM

4 of 4


81 We have a substantial endowment. May 7, 2010 4:22 PM

1 of 3


Please check the sentence that best describes your congregation as you look toward the future:

Response

Percent

Response

Count

We can continue this level of

staffing for the foreseeable

future.

38.3% 133

We are struggling now and are not

sure we can continue this level of

staffing in years to come.

24.5% 85

We know that this level of staffing

is not sustainable long term.13.8% 48

We can't really afford what we are

doing now.11.5% 40

I don't know. 4.9% 17

Other 6.9% 24



skipped question 44


1 We just switched to part time from three quarter time, and people's expectationsare still of three quarter time at least. We can afford what we are paying, but notwhat we are expecting.

Mar 18, 2010 4:13 PM

2 we are trying to look realistically at our ability to call and support ft clergy Mar 18, 2010 4:31 PM

3 WSe can continue for the forseeable future, but only by drawing some frominvestments

Mar 18, 2010 4:46 PM

4 We will loose our assistant this june and cannot replace her Mar 18, 2010 4:54 PM

5 again, reflects early 09 realities. interim stewardship is posing a challenge Mar 18, 2010 5:59 PM

6 Hope to have a part-time priest in the next couple of years. Mar 18, 2010 6:09 PM

7 We would like to go to full-time Mar 18, 2010 6:16 PM

8 we hope to have staff clergy in the future. Mar 18, 2010 6:24 PM

9 we expect to hire a full-time rector Mar 18, 2010 6:27 PM

10 We can only afford a full time priest at the prescribed salary. Mar 18, 2010 6:29 PM

11 we live monthly "hand to mouth" Mar 18, 2010 6:35 PM

12 We've been struggling for years, & going on, always at the edge. Mar 18, 2010 7:00 PM

13 We know that we need more than we can afford. Mar 18, 2010 7:03 PM

14 we receive assistance from the Diocese Mar 18, 2010 7:08 PM

2 of 3


15 We plan to increase the rector to full time, but may have to cut our pastoralassociate position when the new rector is hired.

Mar 18, 2010 8:59 PM

16 Our problem is our rectory. It is in a very valuable location, but is worn and old.We are concerned that our new priest may not want to live there. Once sold, wewould never be able to find a comperable location at a price we could afford andrenting in the vicinity is prohibitive.I think we really have to think outside the box.

Mar 18, 2010 9:11 PM

17 The congregation was having trouble balancing the budget this year but wassaved from difficult decisions by the rector's departure to pursue a differentcareer.

Mar 18, 2010 10:42 PM

18 but we hope to afford full time or be able to contribute more towards healthinsurance

Mar 19, 2010 12:09 AM

19 we are capable of doing more than we do Mar 19, 2010 12:36 AM

20 same as above Mar 19, 2010 1:29 AM

21 other areas of the budget are suffering Mar 19, 2010 2:41 AM

22 We are hoping to afford a half time priest Mar 19, 2010 12:42 PM

23 The future may be to revert to being a summer chapel. Mar 19, 2010 2:21 PM

24 See above Mar 19, 2010 7:18 PM

25 Other professionals in the congregation are increasingly angry that we arecompensating our clergy at levels that outstrip what comparable positions in otherfields in Maine. What do Executive Directors of other non-profits make in Maine?

Mar 20, 2010 1:27 PM

26 reducing a full time clergy to 1/2 time in FY 10-11, should reduce to 1/4 time. Wecan't afford even 1/2 time.

Mar 20, 2010 7:34 PM

27 Only rarely can we balance our budget when we are paying a full time Rectorsalary. We have paid for deficit years by both using the surplus when we do nothave a full-time clergy and withdrawing more from the Endowment than issustainable.

Mar 21, 2010 1:07 AM

28 We are currently as assisted parish, it is our goal to stay at this level of staffing Mar 21, 2010 5:38 PM

29 Unless we get more pledging units we will have to cut back in the foreseeablefuture.

Mar 21, 2010 9:14 PM

30 We HOPE we can continue this level of staffing for the future...the town being as itis and limited pledging members losing jobs still, could affect this.

Mar 21, 2010 11:43 PM

31 Because of the age and size of the congregation, we are struggling to maintain. Mar 22, 2010 1:02 PM

32 Our large church mortgage does stretch our resources, but the Lord has providedso far, and we trust He will in the future.

Mar 23, 2010 1:52 PM

33 PART 2 LEVEL WE CAN & STILL PAY BILLS Mar 23, 2010 4:11 PM

34 We are in transition and taking a long, hard look at what we will be able to afford Mar 23, 2010 4:49 PM

35 We have reduced ad. assistant to do this. Mar 24, 2010 8:25 PM

36 we can continue current staffing level if we take corrective action Mar 25, 2010 2:22 AM

37 We are determined to make it work, althogh it is hard. Mar 25, 2010 12:07 PM

38 we are in a position of growth and tho we are currently part time, we hope to beable to increase to closer-to-full time in the next few years

Mar 25, 2010 12:52 PM

39 We will compensate a full time clergy once we have found a new one Mar 25, 2010 7:31 PM

40 We're moving to half time but to be fiscally responsible, we should be reducing therector to one-quarter time rather than half time.

Mar 26, 2010 2:24 PM

41 I have moved, I have no idea. Mar 26, 2010 2:26 PM

42 [CHURCH NAME EDITED OUT] is considering many options during its interim. Mar 26, 2010 2:30 PM

43 Or so I am told. The congregaton has never ever seen a budget for 2010. Mar 26, 2010 2:49 PM

44 We need MORE *& MORE members! Mar 26, 2010 2:52 PM

45 Once we hire a full time priest, the part time position will not be funded without anincrease in pledges

Mar 26, 2010 4:37 PM

3 of 3


46 Working to determine viable path forward. Mar 31, 2010 12:05 AM

47 But should be anticipating needing greater than half-time clergy Apr 6, 2010 5:26 PM

48 Foreseable means 5 years before emergencyfunds run out. May 7, 2010 4:22 PM

1 of 1


I am

Response

Percent

Response

Count

a Warden or Vestry member 23.1% 83

a Church Treasurer 5.6% 20

an interested lay person 46.9% 169

active clergy 16.7% 60

retired clergy 7.8% 28


skipped question 31

1 of 2


Health insurance is a both major expense and an important part of clergy compensation. Do you think a priest

should receive...

Response

Percent

Response

Count

100% of health insurance for self

and dependents36.9% 58


and dependents33.1% 52


and 50% for dependents29.9% 47



skipped question 234


1 a set mimimum (perhaps 100% self) and negotiable additional Mar 18, 2010 4:42 PM

2 unless spouse receives health package at his/her emloyment Mar 18, 2010 5:21 PM

3 Or a perhaps lesser percentage. However I am mindful of the exorbitant costs ofhealth insurance" $21,000 for this family of four, borne by my legal practice

Mar 18, 2010 5:27 PM

4 dependents often have to drop everything (including their jobs that might includebenefits) to follow the clergyperson to a new call. ensuring their coverage isimportant if we expect this kind of support by clergy spouses.

Mar 18, 2010 6:08 PM

5 70% seems to be a popular number in the workplace Mar 18, 2010 6:30 PM

6 if a couple are both employed, then thrid option. Mar 18, 2010 7:59 PM

7 Clergy should bear more of the real cost of their health care than they do now, butI don't recommend drastically increasing the share of the costs they bear whilehealth insurance and healt care are "products" that they would not be able toafford on their present incomes.

Mar 18, 2010 8:35 PM

8 whatever is possible and agreeable to people involved Mar 18, 2010 10:36 PM

9 some lesser amount, unless health care costs increases diminish Mar 19, 2010 12:52 AM

10 I am concerned about he cost of the mandated policy. We can do better topurchase similar coverage locally.

Mar 19, 2010 1:07 AM

11 If we had universal health care this would not be a problem Mar 19, 2010 2:30 PM

12 pro-rated for full or part-time. I think dependents are negotiable Mar 19, 2010 5:16 PM

13 Most jobs offer much less insurance than this option, but let's shoot for the stars Mar 19, 2010 8:49 PM

14 the isurance could pay less for eye care etc. Mar 19, 2010 9:24 PM

15 90% for self and dependents seems to be the norm in professional positions thesedays.

Mar 19, 2010 9:31 PM

16 100% basic plan for self & deps, with optional additional coverage at their owncost.

Mar 20, 2010 3:52 AM

2 of 2


17 Note that we pay no health insurance since our priest is covered by her partner. Mar 20, 2010 6:29 PM

18 75% self, 50% for dependents Mar 20, 2010 7:37 PM

19 An allowance for health benefits that would provide 100% of a high deductibleplan or 70% (or so) of a low deductible plan. If the person does not need healthinsurance, the allowance could be used for life, dental, or pension.

Mar 21, 2010 1:14 AM

20 if full time/ prorate accordingly Mar 21, 2010 11:27 PM

21 50% clergy, 50% dependents Mar 22, 2010 1:19 AM

22 Full coverage for self and family with a small co-payment Mar 22, 2010 10:42 PM

23 The high cost of the dio health insurance needs to be looked at. Mar 23, 2010 1:55 PM

24 80% plus a contribution of $100.00 per month for a family Mar 24, 2010 12:29 AM

25 Our priest is part of his wife's health plan which costs significantly less than theDiocesan plan.

Mar 24, 2010 2:51 AM

26 80% for self and dependents Mar 24, 2010 3:03 PM

27 in today's economic climate, 100% is unrealistic. No one I know gets thatanymore.

Mar 25, 2010 12:10 PM

28 percent of health insurance same as percent employment Mar 25, 2010 12:35 PM

29 I like option three, but only if salary is comfortable enough that a priest withseveral dependents does not have to spend more than 6% of the salary on thesebenefits

Mar 25, 2010 12:58 PM

30 I think clergy could be responsible to contribute to health care premiums Mar 25, 2010 9:55 PM

31 Basic coverage for self and family, but cost-sharing (co-pays, deductibles) atsame level as comparable professions (teaching, etc)

Mar 26, 2010 1:06 AM

32 90% for priest and 60% for dependents Mar 26, 2010 2:24 PM

33 I think the person who breaks bread should have a day job with whatever salaryand benefits it supplies and give her or his ministry freely in love.

Mar 26, 2010 2:30 PM

34 This should be negotiable between clergy & parish Mar 26, 2010 2:46 PM

35 Depends on the situation; there should be a mininum Mar 26, 2010 9:30 PM

36 our clergy recieves health benefits through his spouse's employer Mar 27, 2010 2:50 PM

37 50% Mar 27, 2010 7:39 PM

38 Under current circumstances, shared burden of healthcare benefits is appropriate. Mar 28, 2010 9:12 PM

39 80% of health insurance for self and dependents. Mar 29, 2010 2:21 PM

40 a level of compensation that is comperable to that available to the largercommunity

Mar 29, 2010 6:29 PM

1 of 1


Rank the importance of the following as measures of clergy performance/factors in considering how to determine a living wage for a priest. (One is most

important and six is least important. You must choose one factor for each number. No ties.)

1 2 3 4 5 6Rating

Average

Response

Count

Accomplishment of goals in Letter

of Agreement36.9% (65) 7.4% (13) 14.8% (26) 14.2% (25) 8.0% (14) 18.8% (33) 3.95 176

Leadership in growth in attendance

numbers/number of communicants10.9% (19) 13.7% (24) 14.3% (25) 22.9% (40) 27.4% (48) 10.9% (19) 3.25 175

Leadership in growth in

pledging/finances1.1% (2) 6.3% (11) 9.1% (16) 18.8% (33) 31.3% (55) 33.5% (59) 2.27 176

Liturgical leadership/Preaching 36.5% (65) 30.3% (54) 12.9% (23) 9.6% (17) 5.6% (10) 5.1% (9) 4.67 178

Outreach to the community 2.8% (5) 6.8% (12) 21.6% (38) 26.1% (46) 18.2% (32) 24.4% (43) 2.77 176

Pastoral care/parishioner contact 11.7% (21) 36.3% (65) 28.5% (51) 8.9% (16) 8.9% (16) 5.6% (10) 4.16 179



1 of 1


Should years of ordained service in parish ministry be a factor in determining compensation?

Response

Percent

Response

Count

yes 72.5% 129

no 27.5% 49



1 of 2


Which of the following do you feel represents a useful parallel or comparison for clergy compensation. (check all

that apply)

Response

Percent

Response

Count

School administrators 43.3% 74

School teachers 22.2% 38

Tenured faculty of a regional

college35.7% 61

Median income for a region or

county50.9% 87

Others (please specify) 28



Others (please specify)

1 not sure Mar 18, 2010 4:34 PM

2 Administrators of non-profit agencies? Mar 18, 2010 4:42 PM

3 mental health counselors, executives in local businesses Mar 18, 2010 4:50 PM

4 Non-profit Directors Mar 18, 2010 5:03 PM

5 compensation for equally educated laypersons in region Mar 18, 2010 6:18 PM

6 equivalent managerial positions Mar 18, 2010 6:27 PM

7 median income of the vestry Mar 18, 2010 7:59 PM

8 It would be difficult to use any of the above since many of those groups arerepresented by a union. Clergy do not have a union or group to bargain on theirbehalf (unless one assumes that the diocese does this and that puts the dioceseinto an "interesting" position between clergy and congregations.

Mar 18, 2010 9:25 PM

9 non-profit leaders Mar 19, 2010 1:07 AM

10 local bank managers, supervisory professionals in non-profits Mar 19, 2010 1:35 AM

11 school principal perhaps but not school superintendent, median income for thediocese but not for smaller, poorer subdivisions.

Mar 19, 2010 4:11 AM

12 according to size of the congregation Mar 19, 2010 11:28 AM

13 Standard of living in parish Mar 19, 2010 5:47 PM

14 execs of comparably sized not for profit organizaitons, ministers of otherdenomnations, missionaries.

Mar 19, 2010 9:24 PM

15 other comparable dioceses Mar 19, 2010 9:52 PM

16 adjusted for cost of housing in the area Mar 19, 2010 9:53 PM

17 Tenure is only relevent re. academic freedom, which is N/A for rectors.Unfortunately, teachers are underpaid in our society but I believe that their jobmost closely fits that of a rector.

Mar 20, 2010 3:52 AM

2 of 2

Others (please specify)

18 CEO of non-profit organizations Mar 20, 2010 5:19 PM

19 I think a factor for the income level of the congregation or town is appropriate. Mar 21, 2010 1:14 AM

20 I don't think the use of such parallels is effective Mar 23, 2010 2:50 PM

21 No idea to be honest Mar 24, 2010 10:14 PM

22 experienced social workers Mar 25, 2010 1:46 AM

23 Tenure would work, provided that it was balanced for field of speciality--a tenuredbusiness or scientific specialty is paid far more than a humanities prof--clergywould be more commensurate with humanities folk than with a economist, forinstance. The tenure aspect would compensate priests appropriately for theirlevel of education

Mar 25, 2010 12:58 PM

24 General manager of a sports team Mar 25, 2010 9:38 PM

25 If clergy are servants I suppose the servants in wealthy houses would be aneconomic comparison.

Mar 26, 2010 2:30 PM

26 I have no idea what these professions make. It's not a meaningful question. Allare part of the "body" of society. If all are necessary, how do you rankimportance? The admins may get the big bicks, but wait til the sanitation peoplego on strike. Then who's more important?

Mar 26, 2010 2:54 PM

27 Depends on the situation, there should be a mininum Mar 26, 2010 9:30 PM

28 leadership of small, local non-profits. Mar 29, 2010 2:21 PM

1 of 22


In the space below, please provide any comments you may have, including suggestions for changes in the

current compensation table or handbook, and/or suggestions on how to solve the tension between affordability

and attracting and retaining clergy (or compensating them in a just and fair manner). Thank you.

Response

Count

169



Response Text

1 I really hope the Diocese will start making some big changes in this area, by livinginto our call as Christians for social and economic justice. As the Church we mustset the example, and it begins with our clergy and staff. If this means sharing aclergy to allow them to be full time, which might mean two Sunday's of a Deacon'sMass or Morning Prayer it is worth it. These are hard time's, but we're on longerthe church of the 1950's and cannot sustain our current framework. Let'sembrace some change, prayerfully of course.

Mar 18, 2010 4:16 PM

2 We need strategic reassessment. It is clear to me that we have too manycongregations, with a lot of them grouped in the same areas. I suggestconcentrating on keeping small congregations in the more remote areas, andlooking again at the areas where we have several congregations in the samearea.

Mar 18, 2010 4:27 PM

3 The picture will grow increasingly difficult as more and more congregations moveinto yoked/cluster ministries. There needs to be a guideline for determining salarycompensation for those situations that take into account that while thosecongregations are small enough to probably be type I or II, but the clergy personis celebrating the Eucharist multiple times every Sunday, has an increasedadministrative load, etc.

Mar 18, 2010 4:52 PM

4 The answers to several questions depended on the clergyperson beingconsidered. For instance the importance of schools would rank higher for a priestthat had school age children. Therefore this kind of question may not provide theinformation you are seeking.

Mar 18, 2010 4:54 PM

5 If the majority of the folks in the pews are earning only a mediocre wage, or are ona fixed income, it is very difficult to meet the Diocesan standards for ClergyCompensation.

Mar 18, 2010 4:57 PM

6 Need to allow clergy to put together several positions into one. To do this part-time needs to be part time If I am half-time, I should work half of the Sundays andtwo week days. This would allow me to do supply the other two Sundays or towork half-time for another congregation on two other week days and two otherSundays. This would not require the congregations to merge or even know whothe other one is. They would not even need to be geographically close.

Allow clergy to make money "on the side" through weddings and funerals usingour beautiful churches.

Force congregations who are close together to merge and share clergy.

Pay deacons a stipend.

Mar 18, 2010 4:58 PM

2 of 22

Response Text

7 I think that the Church may be heading for a two-tiered system. There will bemany more indigenous lay and ordained leaders. They will be unlikely to travelmuch out of their own regions, and they will rarely have a full seminary educationor degree.

Then there will be a few specialists, who will be (relatively) highly trained andeducated. They will have overview of several parishes and will be key resourcepeople in the enablement of those parishes' mission and ministry.

Mar 18, 2010 5:13 PM

8 I have felt bullied and badgered, and sometimes belittled, into trying to meetDiocesan standards. It's not what anyone has said - it's just that the numbers arethere, staring at me, and I know that our congregational budget can barely afford itand we will have to cut elsewhere in order to 'measure up' - outreach, youthprograms and other programs will be skimped - or not even started. I want toattract gifted clergy to Maine, and I want to be able to compensate them at thelevel that will enable them to live comfortably and retire securely. I appreciate theefforts of the Diocese in keeping our understanding of clergy salaries on a realisticlevel so that we ARE able to attract those clergy. That said, the Diocesan'minimums' seem high. Ranges, perhaps with the current numbers as midpoints,would feel more workable to me.

Mar 18, 2010 5:20 PM

9 In Maine, there is great potential in sharing clergy among parishes whoseadministration is primarily lay-led.

Mar 18, 2010 5:22 PM

10 Diocesan minimums are fine yet they can be a deterrent for keeping full-timeclergy--clustering or yoking clergy within a parocial frame-work are in our future.The sooner we embrace the possiblities the better off we will be.

Mar 18, 2010 5:23 PM

11 Good luck getting this one right!!! This is a hornet's nest. Mar 18, 2010 5:28 PM

12 Maine will likely never reach the level of New York or other large metropolitanareas. Those areas can match or exceed any offer a Maine church can make. Amore level playing field should take into account the quality of life and the differentcost of living-but should allow for such things as keeping up professionaleducation-coming to Maine should not be a dead end! It is a detriment to thepriests ability to minister in a particular parish if his/her pay is way above the lifestyle achievable in that congregation.I remember some years ago when myhusband and I were struggling to pay for individual health care polices with $5thousand deductibles, feeling no sympathy for priests who were complaining atConvention about $10 co-pays. Missioner priests serving several congregationswould solve the affordability issue but can work only when tailored to a particulararea.

Mar 18, 2010 5:40 PM

13 Increase the use of retired clergy, expand the role of Deacons, share clergybetween parishes (Diocese needs to define an equitable set of standards for thissituation), once clergy goals and metrics are defined pay clergy for performance.Provide bonus compensation for clergy that far exceed their performance goals.Share bonus compensation with the individual churches to increase participationof the church community in achieving the stated goals. Let individual churchesdefine local goals in addition to goals set by the Diocese.

Mar 18, 2010 5:52 PM

14 In the current economic climate, the handbook seems to provide generousminimums. So, I suppose I would suggest trying to trim (or at least not increase)basic amounts of salary and benefits, and I would focus more on the lifestylebenefits of living and working here, and on positive aspects of the nature of thework that are not measured in dollars and cents.

Mar 18, 2010 6:02 PM

15 It is a difficult question to which I do not have the answer. Sharing a priest with ananother congregation has definitely been a benefit to our congregation, but not bea fit for everyone.

Mar 18, 2010 6:06 PM

16 diocese must move toward a ministry of all believers Mar 18, 2010 6:08 PM

3 of 22

Response Text

17 I think sharing clergy between a couple of parishes is a good idea, though withMaine's rural makeup, traveling between the two is an issue (as is Sunday servicetime). I don't think merging two parishes will be very popular, except as a lastresort. I think Maine's compensation is probably a little on the low side nationally,so it probably can't go any lower. I hope we can get a handle on health insurancecosts -- will the new program through the Medical Trust be of any help?

I truly wish I had some good suggestions!

Mar 18, 2010 6:09 PM

18 Appreciation and recognition are so very important. Showing appreciation andrecognition in ways other than cash compensation is crucial --especially if unableto compensate accd to the guidelines.

The issue of rectories has not been mentioned in this survey. This is a crucial partof compensation for many clergy. Important aspects include

The "state" of the rectory and what that means for clergy family morale. If it's ingood shape morale can be very high. If it's in bad shape, families can feelneglected or taken for granted, and morale can take a real hit.

The value of the rectory as reckoned by the CPG vs fair market value can oftenbe very, very different. I lived in a rectory that had, according to one realtor, *no*fair market value because only someone who *had to* live there would-- and yetCPG and the diocesan guidelines reckoned it as having significant value. Goodfor the HAC, but hard on morale-- and when the "value" is used as a reason *not*to give a cash raise, even harder on morale.

Non-cash benefits, such as flex time, extra vacation, extra con ed time also go along way in showing appreciation and acknowledging the efforts of a hard-workingclergy person.

Mar 18, 2010 6:09 PM

19 Keep looking at the ENTIRE package of benefits -- eg, a lower salary may beoffset by a liberal Cont ed allowance.Continue to promote stewardship of ALL resources. There isn't a congregation inthe diocese in which every member is pledging as much as they can afford. Manymore Maine people "cry poor" than really ARE poor.

Mar 18, 2010 6:11 PM

20 As I mentioned in another recent survey - the entire compensaiton structure is fartoo generous for the state of Maine, particulalry outside of Portland. We have aclergy perosn with many years of service who I believe is not currentlycompensated at the years in serivce level, but whose compensation is excessive -when looking at entire package. This is an avocation/calling; there hsould not bethe expectation of such high compensation. The questions in your survey showthat the Diocese is looking at this entire issue form the wrong side -- the questionof whether the current compensaiton structure is too high needs to be addressed,not how we can raise more to pay more or even whther we need to go to part timeor share clergy. Seeing who is on your committee makes me doubt whether theright questions will be raised and addressed.

Mar 18, 2010 6:21 PM

21 It is difficult to answer some of the questions for the diocese as a whole since ourparticuilar congregation has recently lost its Rector.

Mar 18, 2010 6:28 PM

22 There has to be a better way to make the clergy accountable when they receivesuch large salaries-even interims.

Mar 18, 2010 6:30 PM

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23 I think that fairness needs to be determined between the parish and a prospectiveclergy member, not by the diocese (who should only provide guidelines). A priestin search has to weigh the entire situation: pay, benefits, housing, location, type ofministry, family issues, etc. If the pay is too little, then he or she will lookelsewhere. Also, if the pay is too little then the parish may have to increase itsoffering to find the right candidate. Regarding health insurance, I think that it istoo expensive and that the parish should not be expected to pay 100% of it. Forme, it is not an issue of whether or not the pay for clergy is too high or too low(quite frankly I feel it is too low considering what they do to get to that point andtheir responsibilties), it is simply an issue of the reality of what parishes are able topay. So we need to either change the pay structure (make it more autonomous)or start merging/sharing ministries. Of course, substantial consolidation wouldeliminate many jobs and, consequently, leave many clergy without a job and,therefore, without any compensation.

Mar 18, 2010 6:38 PM

24 I would like to see recommended diocesan minimums but some allowance fornegotiation between parish leadership and clergy.

Mar 18, 2010 6:43 PM

25 I believe it is very difficult to establish statewide compensation minimums. Eachcommunity has its variables. Being able to hire clergy part time offers someflexibility in this area.

Mar 18, 2010 6:44 PM

26 Thanks all of you for your time and energy on working on such an importantministry that will help improve the Diocese of Maine in the future.

Mar 18, 2010 6:55 PM

27 Cost of living varies greatly in Maine. Housing in Portland is much moreexpensive than in more rural areas (even just a few miles outside of Portland).Perhaps a standard based on ASA and CGS, along with stewardship levels, willhelp congregations come to terms with levels of stewardship and realisticexpectations. Also, I think it's time to do the hard work of changing canon andpublic law to allow parishes in long-term decline revert to mission status.

Mar 18, 2010 7:03 PM

28 Having been a warden during our most recent clergy search, it is clear thatcompensation is a major factor for clergy considering a move to Maine. Stickershock about the overall income level of all Maine residents makes such a moveout of the question for many families.

Mar 18, 2010 7:05 PM

29 I feel as though our parish is like a patient who is in the very challenging positionof having a serious illness. The challenge for me is discerning whether we shouldbe continuing to fight to live or to get ready to die, and knowing how to do this as agroup. I believe that most parishioners are giving as much as we can, and I think(but am not positive) that as individuals we give more than the diocesan average.It feels like a plateau. The consideration of other ways to adapt in order tocontinue to keep the doors open seems to be quite a challenge to the "parishimagination". I'm not sure why. I think at this time in our particular history as wellas in the wider diocese, consultation to embracing change would be helpful,almost like therapy or legal advice to come to terms with "what is."

Mar 18, 2010 7:08 PM

30 I know that the Episcopal Church salary levels compare very favorabily (higher)than other denominations.

In these continuing tight economic times, we need to tread softly.

Mar 18, 2010 7:20 PM

31 Demographics of the community, which are skewed towards older attendees (55-85), provide a significant challenge for clergy and congregation to increaseattendance. Diocese should provide guidance seminars for suggestions on how toaccomplish this task. If the congregation is revitalized growth should follow.

Mar 18, 2010 7:30 PM

32 The questions seem to link the growth of the congregation with the clergy withoutany mention or accountabilty to the parish. The questions of rating the responseof the congregation or evaluating the congregations commitment or fulfilling theagreement with the clergy are missing here.

Mar 18, 2010 7:36 PM

33 Compensation should consider the cost of living in an area and the relativeincome levels of parishioners. When part-time clergy are required to be paidmore than parishioners who are working full, it is hard to sustain.

Mar 18, 2010 7:47 PM

34 None Mar 18, 2010 7:54 PM

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35 Active clergy can get bogged down in the minutiae of parochial ministry. Thereneeds to be regular and required continuing education with a varied menu ofoptions, and judicious use of sabbaticals. Many clergy can benefit from a'coaching' mentor, a good use of carefully chosen retired priests. Maine is large inarea that these suggestions require area focus and management.

Mar 18, 2010 8:04 PM

36 It appears that in Maine, many parishes cannot afford a full time rector. In thoseinstances, the sharing of a rector should be investigated.

Health benefits are more than most of the congregation's members can afford. Inparticular, dental care is an extra that most parishioners can't afford. Also, mostplans require that the indiviual pay a portion of the premiums.

Mar 18, 2010 8:08 PM

37 Compensation should be based on productivity and not on length of time at alocation.

Mar 18, 2010 8:09 PM

38 I used to serve on the vestry and as I recall there is no differentiation forcompensation costs in regard to geographical area and cost of living. The cost ofliving is certainly different in South Portland or Cape Elizabeth than it is inAroostook or Washington counties.

Mar 18, 2010 8:19 PM

39 I feel from the tone of these questions that the Diocese is aware of the strugglesof many parishes trying to maintain the status quo in these difficult times. Changewill not come easy to our parish and denial is only getting us deeper in the holefinancially.

I pray that we will be guided to make some necessary decisions about our presentsituationand the future.

Mar 18, 2010 8:32 PM

40 I believe it is important for the Diocese to be involved in helping find the rightmatch between clergy and congregation and assisting to make that happen in thepossible form of grants to help attract the best clergy.

Mar 18, 2010 8:55 PM

41 I would like to see a fund to reduce clery student loans. I suspect many clergywould opt for a lower compensation package, if they didn't have this substantialdebt encumbering them and their families. I think the deacon program should beexpanded so some of the duties could be shared by the priest and deacon andthe deacon could encourage the people to better share their tallents. I think we laypeople have to take a much more active role in the church.

Mar 18, 2010 9:19 PM

42 I am concerned about the practice of hiring retired priests (mostly male in ourdiocese) to serve part-time as rectors/vicars or in interim positions because theyare affordable (no pension contributions or health insurance premiums) whenthere are priests (not yet retired) who are willing and able to serve in part-timepositions or long-term supply, have an abundance of gifts and talents to share,and need the work to support their household. It's important for us to continue toteach our congregations about the ministry of deacons so that deacons are notconsidered or used as "substitutes" for a priest and the particular ministry ofpriests. I have served multiple point parishes (where congregations join as aparish, yet retain their individual congregational identity and share one clergy) inthe past and can tell you that unless the homework is done prior to "merger" or"sharing clergy in some form" it does not usually last more than a decade or two,and often with much heartache and hard feelings. Consider speaking with formerrectors/vicars of congregations who need to change how they "do ministry."There is a wealth of history and observation to be shared. Let there beconversation about "call/vocation" and "hiring/job" among clergy, laity andbetween the two groups. Most of our laity work in a world where fairness andjustice are not issues when it comes to compensation; it is simply aboutperformance. I hope we will be careful about using the model of the businessworld/current economic system, and not the model of the Gospel.

Mar 18, 2010 9:41 PM

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43 I favor paying clergy from a diocesan pool rather than congregation bycongregation, so compensation can be equitable and size of congregation doesnot govern quality of clergy. I also favor more shared clergy, perhaps on themodel of the Aroostook cluster.

Mar 18, 2010 9:56 PM

44 I believe that attracting full time clergy is becoming increasingly difficult from bothan affordability aspect and also from increased pastoring requirements as afunction of our increasingly complex and stressful lives. Pastoral assistance in ashared minstry with Deacons might assuage the difficulty for a time. However, Ithink that in the future as pastoring duties increase, it might be wise to considercompensation for Deacons.

Mar 18, 2010 10:13 PM

45 A jubilee year for assessments for all parishes (none collected). Diocese usesreserves to manage for one year or does canvasing for pledges

Mar 18, 2010 10:39 PM

46 Some of the questions on this survey presume that churches will have troublemeeting compensation guidelines; are there no churches meeting guidelinesnow?

The question of what attracts clergy presumes that the impact of the differentfactors listed can be separated out. I don't think that they can - it is the totalpackage and church environment that clergy look at, and the relative weight thatis assigned to each factor varies from person to person in any case.

Mar 18, 2010 10:47 PM

47 Consolidation.as on M.D.I. to many churches for the number of members. Mar 18, 2010 11:32 PM

48 Reducing time from full-time to part-time usually means a priest is still expected toperform hours over and beyond what they are being paid.

Mar 18, 2010 11:33 PM

49 Pray. Mar 18, 2010 11:48 PM

50 Reduce facility expense by consolidating ministry/personnel/outreach/worship...... Mar 19, 2010 12:04 AM

51 Sorry, but I feel really out of my league, as far as answering this question isconcerned.

Mar 19, 2010 12:19 AM

52 The veracity and authenticity of the Book of Common Prayer, or significant partsof it (such as the Nicene Creed), are coming increasingly under question. TheEpiscopal Church should address this issue in order to try to determine whethersuch skepticism is causing people to turn away from the Church. The more peopleturn away, the more difficult it becomes for parishes to afford full time clergy.

Mar 19, 2010 12:29 AM

53 When churches have the option to provide less than the minimum and otherclergy in the area work for less than the minimum- in an area where there is thefinancial capability of supporting clergy at the appropriate level - there is areverse tension to not live up to the minimum. There is still an ethos that clergyshould take a vow of poverty- many church members expect clergy to toleratewages etc that they would not tolerate themselves.

Mar 19, 2010 12:41 AM

54 No single part of the compensation package is troublesome. Together, the wholepackage is daunting. No profession that I know of pays an 18% pension benefit.And most "1099 earners" pay their own fica. Very few organizations offer thehealth care benefit at the percentage of individual or family member costs that wedo. The diocesan mandated stipend and housing together represent--I'mguessing--compensation at the 80th percentile for the area in which the clergylives. To continue that sort of compensation policy means increasing stewardshipdramatically, and increased stewardship assuredly includes church growth innumbers of members.

Mar 19, 2010 12:59 AM

55 The inability to hire and maintain quality priests in a shrinking church environmentis a reality of today's world. Parshes will have to begin to look hard at making adecision on whether to retain a priest or maintain a facility. I see it as the reverseprocess that brought parishes into being as they evolved years ago.

Mar 19, 2010 1:12 AM

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56 Perhaps the compensation for seniority could rise a little less -- not that itshouldn't go up as Clergy mature and gain experience, but perhaps not as fastand as much.

Our church can only afford a priest who's retired, has his/her own healthinsurance, and travels to our congregation 1-2 days per week. This is not likely tochange anytime soon, as we're located in a poor, underpopulated county spreadout over a large geographical area (Washington). Sharing clergy would be verychallenging for us -- we already have members driving 45+ minutes just to get toChurch. If we were to merge or share with the other 2 churches in our county,we'd be driving 60-90 minutes to services and events, which would onlydiscourage members from participating.

Mar 19, 2010 2:31 AM

57 I think clergy compensations should be in line with the upper median incomelevels for a region. If we set compensation levels higher than that, I think itbecomes difficult for the clergy person and the laity and community at large torelate to one another. Although we expect a great deal of our clergy,compensating them at the same or higher level than our local doctors or lawyersmay make it difficult for many of our populace struggling to make ends meet, tofeel the clergy can appreciate their difficulties, making them less likely to seek thepastoral care they may urgently need.

Mar 19, 2010 2:35 AM

58 I would be interested in developing a pooled fund that clergy would voluntarilycontribute to by a fixed % and that would lessen the difference between salaries.

Mar 19, 2010 2:42 AM

59 Keep offering support to congregations for sending members to provincialStewardship & Evangelism conferences, and recommend that at least once every5 years the clergy of each parish attend one as well. This is an excellent way toincrease congregations' awareness of the complexities of church finance ingeneral, and the connections between strong, creative, aggressive leadership inattracting new members and sound fiscal policy.

Mar 19, 2010 2:48 AM

60 Given current economic circumstances plus the aging in many parishes,increasing funds will have to come primarily from increasing growth.Compensation for part-time clergy will be very important and their duties specified(e.g. half-time means two Sundays a month and two days a week for pastoralcare and other responsibilities, etc.) With parishes going to part-time, I fear thatthe full-time parishes will have difficulty recruiting because clergy will feel insecureabout future full-time employment. It seems to me that the formation of moreclusters will be the way to offer full-time employment opportunities. The downside is less community visibility when more than one community is involved.Another approach is increased use of lay worship leaders, preachers, eucharisticvisitors, etc. with an ordained priest serving in a supervisory role for a largerregion.

Mar 19, 2010 4:25 AM

61 Begin with health insurance(wellness plan) for clergy only, then scale backcompensation to reflect the community the clergy would serve....... include morebenefits in the way of clinical supervision, and collaborative partnerships formanagement of the parish, as part of compensation......look at more ways theresponsibility can be shared so to lessen the burden of carrying wounded souls ontheir shoulders, buildings in need of repair, cranky vestrys, and the ever presentlack of finances.......provide assistance that may well create a more attractivework situation without the top financial perks.

Mar 19, 2010 11:40 AM

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62 Many of our congregations are small and really don't require full time priests. Weneed to discover new ways of maintaining an Episcopal presence in new modelsof ministry that are sustainable and pay clergy appropriately with adequatebenefits that compare with those of professionals in our communities (notnecessarily in Boston!). We also need to modify our salary/benefit model so that itis more transparent. The current compensation packages are so complicated thatmost people (including vestry members) don't know how much they are payingtheir clergy and it is very difficult to compare the compensation with outside levelsof compensation. It appears that it may be deliberately confusing. Clergy must beadequately compensated AND we need to change the focus from "how do wemeet payroll" to "what is our ministry and mission in this place".

Mar 19, 2010 12:44 PM

63 for part time - 1/2 or more- clergy with dependents, it should be a condition of callthat the parish pay the full health care cost for the clergy family.

Housing provisions should be adequate to allow clergy to live in the neighborhoodof the parish. Either providing housing by a rectory or paying the market rate rentto clergy or providing down payment and financing assistance with shared equity -- The Rev Bill Giesler is an expert on how this is done all over the US

Mar 19, 2010 1:08 PM

64 More interfaith and ecumenical action. Mar 19, 2010 1:13 PM

65 I will let clergy in active parish ministry answer that. Mar 19, 2010 2:34 PM

66 I believe the diocese has been arrogant in these matters for far too long. Maine isthe poorest state, by far, in the northeastern United States. Pressuring Mainecongregations to pay at a New England level, when that includes two of therichest states in the nation, is an outrage. People in other professions in Maine--myself included--earn less than people in other states do. To decree, as theDiocese has, that that must not be so for our clergy, is selfish on their part andwrong. Other denominations elsewhere, in fact, have seen their leadership takepay cuts in sympathy with their congregants in this time of high unemployment. Ihaven't seen that kind of leadership here. I believe the diocese should ceasehaving minimum standards for clergy pay; I think it likely fewer congregationswould be having to make the cuts they are if this were the case.

Mar 19, 2010 3:21 PM

67 I think there needs to be more clarity in the search/discernment process aboutthings like the cost of health care/percentage of package. I also think that thereneeds to be a cler understanding that all the $$ items in the LOA need to beCLEAR as budget line items. While this may seem to be abundantly clear, it iscertainly not! There are also some frank realities about clergy compensation inMaine. I needto work part time and I need as much pension compensation aspossible, but I don't need health insurance, and other perqs are less important tome than pension. I could not afford to be 1/3 or 1/4 time and receive pension inthat way. And my congregation could not afford to reimburse me for part of myhealth insureance or for other reimbursables.

Mar 19, 2010 5:21 PM

68 Although compensation is not the most imortant consideration in accepting a call,it can become a factor in leaving one. We clergy ought not be put in the position ofhaving to negotiate--it is hard on relationships!

Mar 19, 2010 5:52 PM

69 I believe small churches must join together wherever possible, or forgerelationships with larger congreations in order to support the ministry of both. Thesharing of resources, lay and clergy, with one another is a preferred means ofmeeting the needs of all. It is not acceptable to allow clergy to enter into a postwithout assuring that a reasonable compensation package, including benefits, beprovided and sustained. Every Episcopalian should be tithing, orworking towardsa tithe. If other denominations can insist on that as a standard, why can't we?

Mar 19, 2010 6:09 PM

70 This is a difficult issue, I know, but the current compensation rates in Maine are sofar above what most of the rest of the professionals in a congregation are beingpaid that it distracts from the mission of the priest and the congregation. We saywe support the priesthood of all believers, but compensate our priests (if we followthe diocesan guidelines) at a rate indicating that their work is apparently muchmore valuable than the rest of the congregation's.

Mar 19, 2010 8:51 PM

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71 It is interesting that in the section on what might attract a priest to a congregationthere was no option for "answering God's call to serve a specific parish".

It is saddening to grapple with the issue of compensation as if being a parishpriest is just another service industry job. (see comparison to teachers andprofessors)

We are not "just another profession" - we are called by God to do the work of thekingdom and that really complicates the issue of compensation.

to treat compensation of our calls as if we were unionized workers will simply endin what happend to Eastern Airlines.

Mar 19, 2010 9:29 PM

72 I said we compensate one full time clergy person, because the second personwho is key, in our youth ministry, is not a clergy person. But she is essential, andthat is our Christian Education Director for Children and Youth. This is a positionwhere we get much more bang for the buck by hiring someone parttime than bytrying to rely on volunteers to envision and coordinate the programs.

Mar 19, 2010 9:33 PM

73 The Diocese of Maine has talented lay people and deacons who could partnerwith clergy to minister to the faith community and the community at large. Thetalents of lay people and deacons are under utilized and a team approach toministry is greatly needed in a number of congregations in our Diocese. Focusneeds to be about the regions and how regions may work together. In someinstances, it will be necessary for some parishes to close and for others to beshared with a ministry team providing leadership and pastoral care in assistanceto ordained clergy. Clergy compensation needs to be redesigned and we need tothink outside of the box in this regard.

Mar 19, 2010 9:58 PM

74 This is a VERY complicated issue. I do believe that pay should be related toperformance, but the Diocese should be involved in the performance assessmentin order for the assessment to be fair for rectors. It will require much moreongoing communication between the parishes and the Diocese re. day-to-daymanagement issues, achievement of development plan goals etc.Oftentimes there are major differences of opinion between the rector and theparishioners re how things should be done. It would help a lot if the Diocese wasmore involved in what's going on and give guidance when appropriate. Havingrepresentatives occasionally attend Vestry meetings and meet with rectors andchurch leaders to see how things are going ("management by walking around")would be very helpful. That way there will be no surprises when assessment timecomes around.

Mar 20, 2010 4:13 AM

75 I think it is deceitful and dishonorable that the diocesan committee takes pride insetting a schedule of high pay rates (so that we achieve favorable comparisonswith Vermont or other states) but parishes are permitted to hire a clergy personnominally at "full time," but actually commit to only about 80% support, withconsequent harmful effects on benefits and retirement.

Ask me how I really feel.

Mar 20, 2010 11:00 AM

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76 We need to ditch the formula table that automatically ties compensation increasesto years in the priesthood. Instead, there needs to be allowance for performanceto impact this. Annual cost of living should not necessarily be automatic. Thoseof us pledging resent it when for years at a time we do not receive raises in ourjobs because of economic factors, yet year after year we are forced by thediocese to give comfortable increases of 2-3% to our clergy. Also, the Churchneeds to wake up and smell the coffee in the area of benefits. I know of noprofessionals in other fields who have 100% of their health insurance benefitspaid for. We understand that the practice reflects a social justice attitude that thisis the way things SHOULD be, but the rest of us have to balance our budgets onthe way things ARE. The rest of the country is struggling about what to do onhealth care while the Episcopal clergy continue to live in la-la land. Yourquestions in this survey tell me that you are still thinking inside this box. If youwant to raise money among the generation of 30-40 somethings, you've got to getaway from old models that don't apply anymore.

Mar 20, 2010 1:35 PM

77 I think my comments are at question #8. Thank you. Mar 20, 2010 1:49 PM

78 I think the mean income level of people in Maine should be considered indetermining a fair level of compensation for all clergy in Maine. Congregationsshould pay into a Diocesan fund based on their local mean income and all clergyin Maine should be compensated the same amount based on level of educationand length of ordination. Consideration should also be given to length of prioroccupation. Clergy who receive pension from another occupation should be ableto, but not required to, take that into consideration in forming a contract with acongregation.The existing policy indicates that because some congregations are able to paymore, the people in that congregation must be better or deserve more than asmall struggling congregation. Training congregations to self administer and take on some of the roles nowassumed to be those of the clergy might help in an area where the clergy couldserve more than one congregation. Let administration go to a paid or volunteeradministrator to free the clergy to meet pastoral or liturgical responsibilities.Lay people and deacons give freely of time and energy. We seem to focus onclergy receiving "just compensation" for ever task.

Mar 20, 2010 2:52 PM

79 Having just completed in 2008 the discernment process and the difficult task offinding candidates willing to come to a small rural parish at half pay, I wouldrecommend that small parishes be given the option and opportunity to sharepastoral duties with other congregations (and perhaps other denominations suchas Lutherans). This option was not presented by the diocesan facilitator in thediscernment process.

Mar 20, 2010 6:40 PM

80 There should definitely be a difference in benefit packages for 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 andfull-time clergy. This should include a difference in housing allowances,health/dental/life insurance coverages, vacation and sick time and holiday.Someone who only works 1/4 time should not receive same package as a full-time. In the real world it just doesn't work that way.

Mar 20, 2010 7:38 PM

81 First, we need to accept the fact that few smaller parishes in Maine can competesalary-wise with the country's wealthier dioceses. I'm not a priest, but I took amajor pay cut to live in Maine, and I suspect that many clergy here have acceptedthe same trade off.

Second, the present clergy compensation guidelines often result in the priestbeing paid more than his/her parishioners, which can result in some ill-feelings,specially in a parish that's financially stressed.

In the long run, smaller parishes will need to share clergy and we to begin toprepare ourselves for that eventuality.

Mar 20, 2010 10:22 PM

82 I applaud the work being proposed to include looking at comparable salary levelsin Maine.

Mar 20, 2010 10:51 PM

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83 I see no solution in our parish at the current time. There are signs of new life andthat may be a sign of hope.I fear it will be a long time, if ever, before our parish can afford to hire a full timepriest and we may need toabandon our facilities before that time. God willing, we will find new strength inour community during times of hardship, and with greater strength we maydevelop a new vision that we will be able to fulfill.

Mar 20, 2010 11:09 PM

84 Question #13 was a bit difficult to answer. The starting level of clergy should bean affordable wage and should go up from there based on performance andseniority. The most important factor should be performance based on the specificcongregation's needs. Those needs are expressed in the profile and agreementand should be open to negotiation as situations change. I think it would be good tohave the ability to set the starting level based on years of experience both as aclergy or other related fields. For example, an experienced teacher, counselor, orother professions may have learned many pertinent skills.

Mar 21, 2010 1:20 AM

85 Is a puzzelment! Mar 21, 2010 3:24 AM

86 Clergy compensation needs to always consider the regional economy. If theeconomy is healthy, raises are a given. If the economy is flat or negative, thenraises should be held to a minimum or zero.

Mar 21, 2010 3:12 PM

87 I think the Diocese should strongly encourage congregations to be innovative intheir worship schedules and activities in order to share clergy to provide one full-time salary wherever possible.

Mar 21, 2010 3:57 PM

88 1. There should be annual reviews with input from parishoners not just the innercircles. So that you have a ttotal feeling for the performance of the preist in charge. Compensation & paywould reflect performance.2. Letter of agreement should be reviewed , ajusted & agreed upon every year byeveryone responsible. If the clergy is not performing as expected , thenreasonable messures should be allowed to take place in a resonable timeframe.In other words we should not have to be stuck with someone , when the majorityof parishoners feel that the clergy is not performing as he or she should be.3.Letter of agreement should have specific goals & duties for clergy to achieve &perform. Performance review should be tied to this review.4. Clarifying & simplifying what is expected always relieves tension. Both sidesknow what is expected. Transparency.

Mar 21, 2010 11:54 PM

89 The work of a rector is pretty consistent regardless of size of congregation.Perhaps the Diocese should be paying clergy and assessing congregations morein relation to their income in order to pay for the service of a priest. This wouldremove the sense of "hiring" a priest, instead of a call to serve together.

Mar 22, 2010 12:16 AM

90 We HAVE to commit to compensating our clergy in a competitive manner or wewill become stagnant and irrelevant. The survival of the church in Maine dependson it!

Mar 22, 2010 12:35 PM

91 Pension payments are very high. 18% is far too high. Mar 22, 2010 1:22 PM

92 consider the following in my reply:I am:new vestry member never having served beforeunfamiliar with "current compensation table" and "handbook"businessman with extensive experience running a large corporate division

Mar 22, 2010 1:22 PM

93 I think the physical location of all 4 Episcopal Churches on MDI make filling theseposts much easier than many. Seeing the interaction of their leaders on March21st showed how capable they are.

Mar 22, 2010 1:27 PM

94 I am a former Vestry member and Senior Warden. I believe too few members ofour congregation either know or are willing to focus on the full cost of our clergyand administrative staff with all the benefits they, and particularly the clergy,receive including housing and many insurance and retirement benefits. it is wellbeyond time the Diocese become aware of the need to bring benefits more in linewith the private industry here in Maine.

Mar 22, 2010 2:08 PM

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95 I do not have access to the current compensation handbook, but know as aformer vestry member we are not gaining new members and while ourstewardship is holding we can not continue as we are, especially as our oldermembers who have been the greatest givers are passing away.

Mar 22, 2010 2:49 PM

96 It was difficult to rank some of those groupings as they are all important and manyhave equal importance.

Mar 22, 2010 4:04 PM

97 I would suggest that we tie our pledging process to the budget process. Havemembers of the congragation tie their pledges to a budget line or lines, i.e. clergycompensation, church maintance, etc. . The Vestry reviews it and makes sure thateverything is covered appropriatly.

Mar 22, 2010 4:52 PM

98 I believe that, as with all occupations, clergy should be compensated to salaryscale and that performance should be used as part of the evaluation process toarrive at that scale.

In the economic environment in this state the impact is having a serious effect onmany of our congregations to operate as in prior years. This will adversely affecttheir ability to employ and pay clergy, and in some instances to keep the doors ofGod's house open in the future.

God Bless the Diocese of Maine !!

Mar 22, 2010 8:12 PM

99 In our church I believe that we do not need a paid assistant deacon, but insteadshould put money toward a full time clergy member.

Mar 22, 2010 8:30 PM

100 see previous comments Mar 22, 2010 9:51 PM

101 Hopefully the new Health Care bill to be signed these days will lessen the strain ofsuch costs of health care provision on individual parishes. Housing allowancesare an area to examine, the federal government provides a housing allowance ora house for civil servants posted to different parts of the country or the world; itdoes not provide an allowance to pay for the costs of retaining/maintaining theirpersonal domociles elsewhere.

Mar 22, 2010 10:59 PM

102 Like most companies clergy should assist in the cost of their health care. Mostemployees do not get a housing allowance. Retirement contribution should beshared by clergy and church.

Mar 23, 2010 4:46 AM

103 One idea for consideration, that all clergy would be paid by the diocese. Eachcongregation would contribute to a salary fund which would pay out to each clergyperson the levels set by the diocese.

Mar 23, 2010 12:24 PM

104 wealthy summer folk have many requests for their donations and their summerchurches seem to fall into the void. they likely focus more on their rest of the yearchurches. our needs may need to be communicated to them more diligently

Mar 23, 2010 1:29 PM

105 Although the current calculations take into account church membership andincome, it does not consider church debt/expenses or the economics of thevarious areas of our state. A congregation's ability to pay is impacted by so manyvariables that a flat formula cannot consider. A way to factor in those variables isneeded.

Mar 23, 2010 2:00 PM

106 When Bishop Lane first spoke of "Change" as a major focus for his leadership, Ihad some doubts - simply because over the years I have known "Change" assomething studied and talked about more than something actually tackled, muchless accomplished. I no longer have doubts - if something as basic as clergycompensation is to be open to "Change" the bishop, I think, is truly on the righttrack and is really serious about doing change as well as thinking and prayingabout it. I have no suggestions to make, but know in my heart a real change in thestewardship of finances and ministry in the diocese will be impossible without amajor rethinking of how much of our resources is spent on clergy compensation -and how it is spent. The diocese is into some hard work and tough decisions.GO FOR IT!

Mar 23, 2010 3:02 PM

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107 WITH THE CURRENT ECONOMY, ATTRACTING NEW MEMBERS WHO WILLPLEDGE EVEN SMALL AMOUNTS...THAT ADD TOGETHER TO MAKE THEBUDGET

Mar 23, 2010 4:13 PM

108 Health care benefits needs to be pooled on a nationwide basis, as largecompanies do. A cafeteria plan should be offered with everyone contributing foreven the base plan.

Salaries should be commensurate with the median for the locale in which they'relocated. Bonuses can be offered for set goals for each parish based on increasesin total pledge amounts of all pledgers, etc.

There should be salary bands for years of service with minimums and maximums,yet still bassed on the median for the locale in which they're located. The Bishopshould be able to move clergy around so they can grow in experience and salary,based on need for both the priest and congregation.

Mar 24, 2010 12:40 AM

109 I think that communities need to understand that they have to participate and takeresponsibility for their parish. I think our community waits for others to come totheir rescue. If they really care about their parish, people must support itfinancially and with their time and participation. The church lets too many off thehook so of course everyone is waiting for someone else to fix it.....of course inareas where there are very few people, then having churches merge becomes asad reality. But, we have to trust God's plan - and sometimes it is not our plan.

Mar 24, 2010 3:31 AM

110 If the clergy are functionaries of the Diocese, my thought would be to have theDiocese pay them at such rate as would be deemed appropriate and mutuallyacceptable, with the Diocese billing the parish for all or a portion of the costs offurnishing them with a pastor. The parish's liability for these costs would be basedupon its ability to pay. Therefore, no parish deemed viable but financiallystruggling would be deprived of pastoral support, perhaps at a time when having apastor available might well make the difference between remaining in ministry andfalling by the way. Clustering would be another possibility, with use made ofretired/part-time priests where practicable, at Diocesan pay scale on an hourly orper diem basis. Parishes would, of course, continue to pay a Diocesanassesment.

Mar 24, 2010 3:51 AM

111 I hope that we don't decide to balance congregational budgets by cutting clergysalaries and benefits. Maine is far below the national average in per capitastewardship and this cannot be explained away by the unsual "Maine is a poorstate" arguments. We need to look at new ways to provide clergy leadership incongregation such as team ministry for multiple congregations and making iteasier for local qualified people to be ordained. Our present ordination process isinterminable, byzantine and antiquated.

Mar 24, 2010 2:13 PM

112 The Diocesan compensation schedule has "bumps" in it between parish types, soit's difficult to go up in type. We are type I, but barely. The jump to type II means aconsiderable raise. We are going over the boundary due to inflation (the $150,000boundary), not because we are getting bigger.

Mar 24, 2010 6:13 PM

113 Say if in the letter of agreement there was a set percentage of increase say at 6%then tie it to a performance piece, say 6 goals for the year, and each goal metwould determine how much of the 6% would be given. For example 3 out of 6goals met would be 50% of the 6% or a 3% increase. As for the attracting andretention I think the diocese faces the same problem that the state of Maine doesin retaining people. We aren't a wealthy state moneywise as a whole. I thinkanyone that decides to come and work here needs to realize that they will not bemaking the money that would be made elsewhere. I realize that clergy have loansand are putting children through school and need to pay bills but the people in thecongregations are facing the same obstacles.

Mar 24, 2010 8:12 PM

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114 Clergy in Maine need to assume that part of their income will come from outsidethe church and recognize that their secular employment will both nourish theirministry and put them in creative relationship with the rest of the world.Congregations need to accept the fact that they cannot have clergy leadership24/7 and that most of the ministry is to be done by lay people.

Mar 24, 2010 9:45 PM

115 I think most of this will work itself out once we decide what Church we're going tobe Nationally. The Conservatives have mostly left, and many progressives arewaiting to see if we'll be true to "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You", or if we'llkeep limiting who is eligible for all the Sacraments. If we continue to just be"Catholic-lite" our days are probably numbered.

Mar 24, 2010 10:16 PM

116 I do believe there are some clergy that are still parish priests who have outlivedtheir usefulness and are costing parishes high salaries and not bringing in newparishioners. Priests also need to change with the times and become flexible tonew ways that could bring in new people to the church.... Outside the Boxthinking. Some clergy have difficulty with that idea.

Mar 25, 2010 12:08 AM

117 In a society with ever diminishing numbers of people attending church, anddiminishing respect for clergy, the challenges facing fair compensation for clergyare great and growing. It is a conundrum.

Mar 25, 2010 1:50 AM

118 I do not believe that we should have to pay for both the employer and employeeportions of the SS.If we pay all the SS then the clergy should pay for the pension.

Mar 25, 2010 1:58 AM

119 priests who are less expensive should be considered..a. first cureb. have spouses who can provide health insuance via their emplooyers planc. unwedd childnesse independently wealthy

Mar 25, 2010 2:22 AM

120 I have ranked "stewardship" very low in my answers because I am very tired of"stewardship" being used as a euphemism for fund raising. They are NOT thesame thing. If we had an authentic understanding and theology of stewardship,the conversation would be completely different and the money would comeunbidden.

Mar 25, 2010 2:26 AM

121 It would be good to have a long-range plan addressing the future structure of ourchurch. We think that we have perhaps five years left of full-time clergy given theaging of our congregation, our current rate of pledges, and the size of ourendowment. Right now, we are providing about 15% of our operating needs(roughly the amount of our diocesan assessment) by drawing on our endowmentand at the current rate, it will be gone in five years. Any downturn in the marketcould accelerate that process. We have spoken within the vestry of sharing apriest with a neighboring church and I would imagine that eventually that willhappen but it would be good to actually plan for that sort of transition.

Mar 25, 2010 12:11 PM

122 I think each area of the state needs to be judged on it's own merits and economicreality. Our poorer counties deserve to have the same pastoral care as our richercounties. Money should never be equated with excellence in the Christianvocation.

Mar 25, 2010 12:11 PM

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123 As a lay leader in a church that is growing, and praying that we can eventuallymove to full-time clergy, and as a congregation currently in Discernment, I knowthat the clergy compensation numbers are a huge factor in attracting and holdingclergy. The days of being able to hire independently wealthy clergy are long goneand we are, thankfully, past the point of believing that we can require highlyeducated clergy to live on a Wal-Mart salary, but that doesn't make it any easierfor a small congregation to find the resources to hire full-time clergy. Thesometimes isolated nature of our churches can make clergy sharing very difficult--we are a 40 minute drive from any other area church, and that puts us in the"relatively close" category. We have also not really developed a model that couldreassure jittery congregations who are considering shared ministry that one parishin the group will not be paying for services that are not provided. There is anatural tendency to worry that "we will always be 'the other parish'" in the mind ofthe clergy since we are not as big, as fun, as well-educated, as challenging, etc asthe sister parish.

With this in mind, I also want to restate my conviction that we cannot grow thechurch and continue to be the active presence of Christ in our communitieswithout well-educated and financially stable clergy. Lay leadership is important inthat calculation, but we need to attract and hold dynamic and engaged clergy tofully live up to our mission. As someone who works in a field where my salary isfar below my educational level (something I chose to do with my eyes open), Iknow that there is a psychological toll that accrues after years of being under-compensated. I have also seen wonderful clergy leadership leave the Diocese ofMaine because they can be more financially stable if they do so--we might be asmall state and a relatively poor one, but that doesn't mean we should accept animpoverished spirituality as a result. I know that many congregations arestruggling with trying to maintain expensive infrastructure on their properties--perhaps the Diocese needs to be more aggressive in helping churches make thedifficult decision to stop being an organization that invests its money in decayingbuildings and be one that invests in the spiritual life of their community, even ifthat means giving up the beautiful but costly building site. We cannot afford to beheld hostage by our buildings if we want to bring the lively word of Christ's love toour world. Perhaps, like the Apostles, we are called to leave our fishing boats toothers and simply follow Him (even though you have to know that Zebadee andthe rest of their families must have thought that James and John and Peter andthe others had lost their minds--these are nice boats, fine boats--how are yougoing to be a fisherman if you leave these boats on the beach??) Put anotherway--can we afford to stay home and "bury our fathers" when the world needs us(and our clergy) for other things? Let's get our priorities straightened out....

Mar 25, 2010 1:18 PM

124 I would have thought the survey would have pension questions, that, in addition tohealth insurance costs, are a substantial burden. Also, why not allow insurance tobe from the marketplace. The Episcopal Church has higher rates thancomparable coverage from industry.

Mar 25, 2010 2:59 PM

125 Thanks for the opportunity to discuss these issues. Mar 25, 2010 10:04 PM

126 The fiscal challenges continue to grow, resources continue to dwindle, pressureson Maine people are daunting; acknowledge the realities we face and together wewill get to a better place. Keep the message of open and affirming front andcenter. People are disillusioned with organized religion on so many differentlevels. To experience spitiual growth in the Episcopal Church has been a blessingafter almost thirty years of being in denial. If it can work for me it can work forothers. Keep the message of the Gospel relevant and meaningful. Stay away fromabstract messages. Speak up for social justice, speak up for people who haven'tfound a voice fo their own. People will find us.

Mar 25, 2010 11:11 PM

127 Both prior experience as well as advanced formal education are important indetermining salary. Most important, however, is how the priest uses hisexperience and education to better the Church, his/her congregation, and thecommunity at large.

Mar 25, 2010 11:42 PM

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128 I think it is time to rethink and rebase. The compensation table has pretty muchbeen on autopilot for years. But the entire US economy got a once-in-a-generation reality bath in 2008-09, and it wasn't pleasant. Expectationseverywhere are being lowered and re-sized, in business/industry, law, otherprofessions. Why should the clergy be exempt?

Mar 26, 2010 1:11 AM

129 Administer compensation from the diocesan office. Involve the vestry and clergy,but ensure that equitable wages are paid and that letters of agreement arefulfilled. High performing priests should be highly compensated regardless of thesize of their parishes. Poor performers should consider new careers and stopbleeding their congregations for the sake of their retirement.

Mar 26, 2010 2:24 PM

130 [EDITED TO REMOVE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION] This is not only an issueof compensation but of wellness and how the parish takes care of their rector.

Mar 26, 2010 2:28 PM

131 So many questions leave out the options I would prefer. For instance #13 doesnot include a traditional goal -- Anglo Catholic goal for priests which can beconverted into a Dutch Dominican/Roland Allen goal: "Recruit local women andmen for ordination who will give their ministry freely while supporting themselvesin the world."

Mar 26, 2010 2:31 PM

132 If years of services is taken into account, there should be a limit to the number ofyears considered (say 10 years).

Many members of [CHURCH NAME EDITED OUT]feel that the diocesanguidelines put the clergy salary package higher than that of comparableprofessionals -- and I think that this is a just criticism.

Mar 26, 2010 2:36 PM

133 I live in where there are many smaller Episcopal parishes that swell in thesummertime. At this time, there are not enough year round parishioners to supportthe current number of existing parishes, and it is challenging to retain dynamicmembers of the clergy. In order to succeed in our area, clergy must be willing tobe active and visible in the communities at large, primarily for pastoral care. Itwould be more positive to have one very well-compensated outgoing clergyperson for two parishes than two insular ones. [EDITED TO REMOVEIDENTIFYING INFORMATION] is a fine example of this more positive strategy.

Mar 26, 2010 2:41 PM

134 The structure we have now is based on both size of church and length of service.As I recall, and I may be wrong, the structure calls for the lowest, entry levelsalary in one category of church to be higher than the highest level in the nextsmaller category. If this is true, I think it poor policy from the perspective of equityamong our priests and it is inconsistent with accepted compensation generally.

If my perception is correct the result is that we are overpaying (in relation to otherdioceses) new young priests who are called to large churches, and as a corollaryare providing a dis incentive for priests to join small ones

Note: I was for a while on the Compensation Committe that set the presentstructure but resigned for reasons connected with this issue

[RESPONDENT'S NAME EDITED OUT]

PS If I am right on the facts I believe, strongly, that the point should be examinedcarefully in setting the next structure

Mar 26, 2010 2:44 PM

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135 Questions one and 12 sum up the challenges any parish of less than severalhundred members face: health insurance. My answer to Q#1 in ranked lastbecause the answer is mandated by the diocese and by canon we are required topurchase health insurance through the D. Q#12 is answered as such becauseeach person's financial situation, needs and desires are different.

We currently spend $22,000 a year on insurance for our 3/4 time priest.[IDENTIFYING INFORMATION EDITED OUT] this cost is stifling beyondcomprehension to our budget, coupled with never ending annual increases thatare in double digit percentiles. I question why a) the church does not have anational plan; b) why we are not permitted to shop the cost around and tailor aplan that meets our needs (for example, a catatrophic plan witha high deductible,with the parish assuming the deductible or a portion of it as assumed andmeasured risk); c) why the Episcopal Church as whole has not taken a noticeablymore public stand on health care and insurance reform in the current atmosphereand imminent decision, as the Catholic Church -- even though somewhatdevisively -- has; and d) what (and why not, if there isn't one) the short and longterm plans are to manage this cost that, franlkly, coupled with out of controlmandated increases, will destroy more than one or two Maine parishes.

I am sure that we are not the only ones struggling under this weight. Is there acorrelation between parishes in financial distress, and the cost of health insuranceas a cost of their budget?

I'm please that this compensation issue is being addressed. I truly hope that wecollectively find a road that fairly remunerates clergy while not crippling our abilityto carry out Christian mission to those who need it most.

[NAME AND CONGREGATION OF RESPONDENT EDITED OUT]

Mar 26, 2010 2:47 PM

136 There needs to be a MAJOR stewardship emphasis in the Diocese, as well asbetter communicaton and support from the Diocese. I am from [NAME OFCONGREGATION EDITED OUT] and strongly feel that the Diocese needs tocome in and give some very strong leadership support and advice.

THe vestry is floundering; has absolutely no idea where to turn next and operatesunder the total control and advice of the Treasurer. The congregation is and hasbeen totally in the dark since our rector was force to quit because we couldn"t payhim.

Mar 26, 2010 2:49 PM

137 There has to be a radical change, in my view, as to the imperative for mission inthe Episcopal Church. I don't believe a liturgical church can use financial viabilityas a major criterion for an Episcopal presence in a geographical location. In otherwords, the continuance or establishment of a mission must be based on needalone, not financial feasibility. Otherwise, you become a business rather than achurch. This means that a priest's support must come from a source other thanthe specific location he/she is serving - just as St. Paul's did.

[RESPONDENT'S INITIALS EDITED OUT]

Mar 26, 2010 2:51 PM

138 How do we reach out to YOUNG PEOPLE??

Any GREAT ideas?

Their parents won't even go to Church,. they sit at home with a DUMB computahgame!~!

Thanks a BUNCH!!

[RESPONDENT'S NAME EDITED OUT]

Mar 26, 2010 2:52 PM

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139 This is a really important conversation, and the survey doesn't ask the rightquestions. Try these on for size:1. What do you think the relationship should be between clergy (distinguishingbetween priests and deacons--not the same though equally important) andcongregation? (What are the unique roles of each in the whole ministry of thechurch?)2. What are the standards of judgment of "good" priest/deacon: worldly standards(bigger numbers, flashy sanctuary, high profile, competence in everything, nevershows weakness) or Gospel standards (agent of reconciliation, sitting in silence,purveyor of grace through his/her own woundedness and that of others, co-discerner of ministry of the baptized, challenger of the status quo, sacramentalpresence in all work, etc.)? This survey is focusing on worldly standards, and Idon't at all think that's what we're supposed to be about.3. How does ministry need to be shared, and what is a reasonable way ofdetermining compensation for the work that needs to be done? Perhapspriests/deacons should be bi-vocational with more ministry shared among thecongregation. That eases the compensation burden on the congregation andgives more ownership among the people. The current system (as indicated in thesurvey) only continues the failed system of clericism--failure financially, practically,and spiritually.

I'm happy to continue the conversation. [NAME OF RESPONDENT EDITED OUT]

Mar 26, 2010 2:54 PM

140 Seldom mentioned but very relevant to clergy compensation is the substantial taxadvantages available to clergy members.

Mar 26, 2010 4:16 PM

141 These compensation minimums were established before the economy went sour.Some churches couldn't afford the minimums at the time they were establishedand it was so stated at convention, even by the rectors themselves. Most Maine churches can't afford these pay scales and should have some say insetting up any pay scales.Most churches can't afford to maintain rectories and most priests and theirfamilies aren't happy with that setup anyway. So benefits need to include housingallowance.There was a time when clergy were poorly paid and the housing, pension andother non-contributory benefits were sorely needed. Maybe that's not so muchthe case now and needs to be looked at.Finding parttime priests (which isn't easy) or allowing churches to either sharepriests or merge into clusters might be the only options the diocese has.

Mar 26, 2010 5:10 PM

142 Clergy compensation/benefit packages are too generous across the board, annualincreases based on years of service do nothing to recognize good vs. poorperformance, and congregations across the state are struggling under thisirrational system (along with the unfair assessment structure). The clergy issupposed to be a calling, not the best paid job in town with the best benefits. Thenature of the questions in this survey reveal a lack of understanding at theDiocesan level of these problems, and give little hope that this committee willmove in the right direction. Compensation should vary by region and be based ona survey of local cost-of-living and comparable-position wage levels, among otherfactors.

Mar 26, 2010 6:46 PM

143 Attrack retired ministers to Maine. They might like retirement here in the state ofMaine.

Mar 26, 2010 9:31 PM

144 Perceverance Mar 28, 2010 9:12 PM

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145 For some parishes, the compensation requirements may force them to move toparttime clergy when there may be a priest that is willing to take less do to his orher circumstances. Nonetheless clergy need to be compensated if we are going toattract competent individuals. It's hard to strike a balance in setting upcompensation guidelines. Merging parishes or sharing clergy seems like onestrategy that should be considered. Clergy leadership, not matter how strong theparish, is a critical element to our success. It seems to me that a full time priest,even if shared, is more likely to lead the success of the parishes though clearlythere are clergy that thrive in a part time position when they are looking to reducetheir workload.

Mar 28, 2010 10:39 PM

146 WE do not want to loose the clergy we have . He is currently under paid for theyears in service . He gets onlt the minimum you have mandated . That is really toobad.I don't believe we could hire another for what he is making or what he doesfor the chiurch and community.

Mar 29, 2010 11:18 AM

147 Our churches on MDI should consolodate. There is no reason for an island of oursize to have five episcopal church families with summer buildings to maintain aswell for two.

Mar 29, 2010 12:44 PM

148 I have not read the compendation table however it seems to me that: AffordingClergy requires greater church attendance, greater church attendance is achievedby community outreach in projects for the people, so that the unchurchedpopulation associates soup kitchens, homeless shelters, jubilee centers, afterschool sports/or centers, career centers, daycare centers, etc. with the church andwants to be part of a joyous, loving community that is supportive of them on apersonal and spiritual level. I see the Church as the HOPE of the people and theplanet.

Mar 29, 2010 2:31 PM

149 The system in place is probably fair, but we cannot continue to increase requiredcompensation each year based upon the goal of matching compensation in otherdioceses in the province; compensation levels for all skills are higher in southernNew England than they are in Maine.

Mar 29, 2010 2:33 PM

150 I have been involved in the finance committee of our church and am aware of thepackage that our clergy receive. I do not disagree with the salary portionguidelines, providing a fair medical package(it should have limits), pension planand reimbursement that is work related (not personal products for the rectory). Ido have a problem with all the additional housing allowances, taxes ( churchpaying double for social security- why shouldn't the clergy participate), etc. thatare given. I am not saying we should eliminate all the additional benefits. But thehousing perks are not fair or realistic. Everyone has to pay a morgage. If notthen perhaps they should be doing savings on their own for a future purchase. Iwould be interested in what other clergy in our area are being compensated aswell as what other States are doing in their diocese. I know that other people feelas I do that the clergy are compensated in a special way unlike what theparishoners are compensated.

Mar 29, 2010 4:11 PM

151 As an organization that is struggling with its very viability, we should setcompensation that is directly tied to building and sustaining the size of thecongregation.

Mar 29, 2010 6:31 PM

152 Surveys with fixed answers and scoring mechanisms only provide the answersthat you have programmed. They will never lead to anything new, and you won'tfigure out what people are really thinking. I am very concerned about the burdenthat clergy salary and benefits has on the life of the church, and we will be forcedto rethink their role in the church. I'd like to be part of that dialogue, but this isn'tthe forum for that.

Mar 30, 2010 1:43 AM

153 It's very difficult to deal with this compensation question during a recession.Salaries for people in our small coastal comminity are barely adequate to covertheir living expenses. We cannot and must not rely on on summer visitors to helpus meet the budget requirements for our church.

I think that examining the sharing of a rector with another church in the area, is agood idea.

Mar 30, 2010 1:20 PM

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154 Compensation as currently directed through the table should not be compromised,even if this forces any given congregation to move to part-time clergy, etc. To doless than this promotes mediocrity, i.e., a lesser quality of candidates as openingsbecome available, full or part-time.

Mar 31, 2010 12:10 AM

155 I presently serve as an assistant to the rector during the month of July and servethe summer chapel (that is only open for July and August)

Mar 31, 2010 4:35 PM

156 Right now our parish is in a good position to provide fair compensation for our oneclergy person (our Rector). I have not sensed any concerns regarding the level ofpay and benefits.

Apr 3, 2010 9:12 PM

157 I would like to see more evidence of the Diocese attempts to exercise constraintand stewardship as an example to congregations. My perseption is that theDiocese wastes a lot of time and money on mind numbing, frivolous, and selfaggrandizing committees, staffing and political activities that ultimately are selfserving and ineffective. For example - this survey.

Apr 3, 2010 9:52 PM

158 I am concerned about the general concept of "large salaries necessary to attracttalent." This phrase is typically used to justify obscene executive pay, and as faras I know, there is not much evidence that it is true -- we have no examples oflarge corporations that try to make due with smart recent graduates willing to workfor "only" several hundred thousand, say, rather than millions.

I don't expect our clergy to starve, or be especially poor, but I also don't think thatanyone should be thinking, "Hey, clergy, that's a good living, I'll try that." We mustprovide a sufficient living for those who feel a call to such service to be able tocarry out their calling, but this should not be primarily an economic considerationrather than a spiritual one.

Of course, this could be abused in the sense of "someone who really want to be aclergy person will take a barely sufficient wage", but we must also be cautious ofexcess in the opposite direction, of putting standard economics ahead of otherconsiderations. (This is a certainly a very strong tendency in our culture, so thechurch must be vigilant against it. Money is necessary, but not primary.

Apr 4, 2010 2:34 AM

159 One of the benefits we have is the location of our church but this cannot continuefor ever. Our present clergy is not being compensated at diocesan levels of pay.

Apr 6, 2010 3:46 PM

160 Housing is an issue in many areas in Maine. Creative arrangements to solveaffordable decent housing could be very helpful in attracting and retaining highcaliber clergy.

The compensation limits on retired clergy working in retirement can be a problemwhere cost of living is high.

Size of a congregation is not a justifiable basis for determining compensationcategory levels.

Apr 6, 2010 5:32 PM

161 Working on stewardship is essential, which is connected with the mission of thechurch and individual discipleship. Regional ministry by either joiningcongregations or sharing clergy could begin even when Parishes are in onepriest/one parish model, beginning with Wardens & vestries having joint meetingsand be in conversation with one another about issues they have in common.Having differing communities work together takes a long time to achieve, andrequires consistent encouragement.

Apr 6, 2010 7:01 PM

162 Instead of concentrating on compensating the clergy the episcopal church shouldconcentrate on its future. More support needs to be given to youth education andyouth groups, junior choirs and supporting interested parties in pursuing seminary.If the church cultivates its youth the church has a good chance of remainingvibrant and relevant. If the church spends its resources on compensationpackages without nurturing its youth, eventually the church will grow obsolete.

Apr 7, 2010 2:17 AM

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163 At our parish we consider ourselves blessed to have the Rector and staff who areserving, not only to the best of their abilities, but far above and beyond! I, for one,would hate to see this change anytime in the near future. We can absorb otherideas, but not to the detriment of what we have going: our parish first; then otherideas/options which would serve other parishes, above and beyond our own. I donot favor merging with another parish at this juncture. We have worked too hardand too long to achieve what we have!

Thank you for this opportunity to vent my opinions!

Apr 7, 2010 5:21 PM

164 As I listen to stories about our parishes it seems to me that the amount of theTOTAL package given to our clergy is out of sync with the pockets of the churchmembers. It frosts me to think that a large sector of professional folks in otherfields do not have the laundry list of benefits our clergy command and EXPECT iepension plans, class A health insurance, housing allowance, mileage, carallowance, social sec. In the last revision, not only was our economy different, butalso our vision. As the world becomes closer to our back door and we think moreand more about our place in our world as people of faith, I would like to see anattitude shift about entitlement. ALL of us live in relative abundance and I think it istime for our ordained folk to practice a bit more humility when it comes tocompensation. It seems completely crazy AND unfair to have us lay folk payingfor all the creature comforts of our clergy, while we are struggling in our own lives.To "attract' clergy, we all need to go deep within ourselves and re-vision the realpurpose of church and 'business" as usual. It is a process, not a "solutiion."

Apr 11, 2010 1:53 AM

165 I believe the amount we are able to pay our pastor is hurt by the amount we haveto pay to the diocese annually to remain a parish in good standing. I think thediocese needs to come up with a more reasonable way of determining what aparish needs to pay the diocese annually, so that it does not bankrupt thechurches in the state. I understand without receiving money from each parish, thediocese itself will cease to exist, but it seems to me that in our parish at least ourtwo biggest expenses are our pastor and this fee. Our current budget is over bythe amount we owe the diocese, and we run our church budget on a shoe-string.

Apr 12, 2010 10:53 AM

166 Given our rural nature, it seems that we ought to take a page from our fellowChristians in Africa and use the laity a great deal more and expect clergy to covermore that one parish. That requires raising up laity in all the gifts of the Holy Spiritand enhansing the ability of clergy to administer and teach.

May 5, 2010 10:37 PM

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168 I am honestly very concerned by the fixation on constantly increasing clergycompensation. [EDITED TO REMOVE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION] Clergy arenot the only professionals who are expected to care for others, look to theirwelfare, educate them. Nurses and teachers are paid much less(and have to fighthard for their salaries and ARE held accountable) and work at least as hard and alot more hours(at least teachers do!). Many nursing and teaching professionalshave the same 'years of education' too, some have more, all are expected to docontinuing education, at their expense. Being an Episcopal priest looks like a realcushy job to me with a great salary, comfortable housing with all expensespaid(except cable!), little to no accountability for poor performance! And thebonus: I would get a special allowance to make up for the fact that I don't have tomake mortgage payments like the rest of the world, I can just save the part of thesalary other poor working folks use for housing expenses.

I retired after 25 plus years working as a teacher, a Master's degree plus 30additional hours of related course work, responsible for at least 150 young peopleeach year, mandated by law to report any signs of abuse of maltreatment,required to pay for my 'professional development' courses that were required tomaintain my certification as well as all the costs of that certification,includingpolice background checks and fingerprinting. I spent more than $200(average forall teachers) of my personal money on classroom materials, had a yearlyperformance review and was subject to loss of my job when the economy wentbad or the voters wanted to cut the budget(regardless of my job performance). Mytop compensation package? $47,000 a year. I was at the top of the scale in arather high paying district; a few miles north I would have been lucky to get$10,000 less.

So do I think $85,000 is compensating them in a just and fair manner? I think it isvery generous and that very few parishes can begin to afford this level ofcompensation.

May 7, 2010 4:20 PM

169 [EDITED TO REMOVE IDENTIFYING INFORMATION] So far, the tendency [INREGIONAL CONVERSATIONS AMONG CONGREGATIONS] is to considermodest incremental means of greater cooperation and cost saving. Likepurchasing fuel oil. Things that won't alarm anyone. Gee whiz!

But there really isn't time. And this approach lacks challenge. We need challenge.We should develop a comprehensive plan for a combined parish: One new centraledifice with retreat/conference center, one rector, one assistant or deacon(possibly part time Sell off some of the real estate to pay for new center.

May 7, 2010 4:24 PM

Documents

Clergy Compensation Survey - Amazon S3s3.amazonaws.com/dfc_attachments/public/documents/801865/clergy... · 1 of 1 Clergy Compensation Survey Rank the importance of the following