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Modern Drummer September 2004 43

Early on in their careers, Lenny Kravitz and Zoroshared their dreams with each other. They’d metwhen Kravitz was sixteen and Zoro was seventeen.As they were both starting out, Lenny told his friendhe wanted to be a rock artist, and Zoro revealed hewanted to play drums and write a book. Well, bothof their childhood visions have come true notmagically, but because they both made them happen.

First and foremost, both Lenny and Zoro are hard workers. Even though he camefrom a modest background, Zoro has managed to succeed at everything he has

set his mind to, even as a teenaged owner of a chicken coop and as a deejay in businesswith his buddy Kravitz. As their music careers began to take shape, Zoro nabbed the NewEdition gig and went on to work with Bobby Brown in his solo endeavor, while Kravitzmanaged to secure a record deal and took pleasure in calling his drummer pal to play withhim during those early days.

Zoro played with Kravitz until 1992, when the singer ended his Mama Said tour. Zorothen began working with a Kravitz-produced artist, Vanessa Paradis. Unfortunately, whenKravitz resumed work, Zoro was otherwise occupied. Cindy Blackman ended up filling theKravitz drum seat, and the two old friends ended up going in different directions.

While Zoro played primarily with Frankie Valli and became a successful clinician, heconcentrated on fulfilling his dream of writing a book, which eventually led to a video andDVD series. The Commandments Of R&B Drumming: A Comprehensive Guide To Soul,Funk & Hip Hop is considered to be one of the finest educational tools on the subject everproduced. During the ensuing years, Zoro met his wife, Renee, and they started a family.In the meantime, Kravitz went on to superstardom, winning four Grammys to date and

having many hits such as “It Ain’t Over ’Til It’s Over,” “Let Love Rule,” “Fly Away,”“Believe,” “Heaven Help,” “American Woman,” “I Belong To You,” “Dig In,” and “Again.”

One night last year, Zoro had a dream that he was playing with Kravitz again. In aweird coincidence, the very next day Lenny called his old friend to chat, having watchedZoro’s DVD the night before. At that point there was no talk of the drummer returning tothe fold. But then, right before Christmas, Zoro asked his wife if she thought he’d ever getto rock again, be part of a band, and have those feelings. Within a couple of weeks, Lennycalled Zoro and asked him to return to his band.

“Lenny’s a great guy, and he never trips on his position,” Zoro says of his old friend andcurrent boss. “He sings God’s praises, and when you meet him, he’s just Lenny. It’s so coolthat God has blessed us and allowed us to be together.”

Kravitz lives and breathes music, a point that is evident on his latest disc, Baptism. Notonly does he supply the soulful songs and vocals on his albums, he tracks all the rhythminstruments and then some. But because of his celebrity and frontman status, few peoplerealize that Kravitz is an accomplished drummer who plays on his records.

In the following interview, the love between Lenny and Zoro is obvious. Even moreobvious is the love both share for drumming.

Modern Drummer September 200444


MD: Lenny, when and why did drumsenter the picture for you?Lenny: I think I was five when I realizedthat drums were the first thing I wanted toplay. My parents always took me to shows,like Duke Ellington and James Brown, andI think, to a kid, drums were loud and fun. Iwanted to play them, but we lived in a littleapartment in New York, so I couldn’t havea drumset. We had a piano, so I played thatfirst—then the guitar, then the drums, andthen the bass. In junior high school, I was apercussionist in the orchestra. I playedsnare drum, bass drum, timpani, glocken-spiel, cymbals, and chimes. I had someproper classical training. In fact, I wasn’tallowed to play drumset.MD: Do you think the fact that you started

out on melodic instruments helped yourdrumming?Lenny: Yes. I find that my favorite drum-mers are the ones who are multi-instrumen-talists, like Stevie Wonder. Nobody talksabout his drumming, but he is an amazingfeel drummer and one of my inspirations.

When I first did Let Love Rule, my inten-tion wasn’t to play all the rhythm instru-ments. But at the time, I didn’t have arecord deal, I didn’t have any money, and Icouldn’t find people to play with. My engi-neer said, “You play all the instruments.Why don’t you do it?” I wanted to have theexperience of looking to my left and look-ing to my right and seeing a band, but itdidn’t work out, so I did the album myself.

My main drumming influences for my

Hardware: all DW, including their Delta5500 hi-hat stand and Delta 5000 AHAccelerator bass pedal (with Danmar Zorosignature beater)Heads: Evans coated G2 on snare batter,Hazy 300 snare-side, coated G2s on tom bat-ters, coated G1s on bottoms, coated G1 on bassdrum batter, black EQ3 on front with 5" hole, Min-Emads for muffling on snare and toms, EQ Pads in bass drumSticks: Vic Firth Zoro signature modelMicrophones: Audix D1 (snare), D2 and D4 (toms), D6(bass drum), SCX-1HC (hi-hats), SCX-1C (overheads)In-Ear Monitors: Future SonicsClick Track Metronome: Yamaha Click StationAdditional Accessories: Puresound snare wires,Quickstix stick holder, Grip Peddler pads for bass drumand hi-hat pedals, SKB cases

Drums: DW in red sparkle finish with 24-karatgold-plated hardwareA. 61/2x14 brass snareB. 9x12 rack tomC. 10x13 rack tomD. 11x14 rack tomE. 16x16 floor tomF. 16x20 bass drum

Cymbals: Sabian1. 14" HHX Groove Hats2. 20" HH Thin crash3. 21" HHX Groove ride4. 20" Saturation crash5. 52" gong

Percussion: Latin Percussion congas, bongos,mini-timbales, mambo cowbell, Jam Blocks

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first album were Stevie and Ringo,who are very similar drummers. Ican’t believe the drummers whohave no ears and say, “Ringosucks!” There are so many drum-mers who can be technical all daylong and who say, “Ringo can’tplay.” But I want to say, I bet youcan’t lay back and lay the grooveinto the song the way he did. Andlisten to those tom fills on ‘I readthe news today, oh boy’ [from TheBeatles’ “A Day In The Life”].Let’s hear you play those fills.

It’s not about how many notesyou can play or how fast, it’sabout how it feels. Stevie andRingo were my first drumminginfluences, and the reason I lovedthem so much is that the drums gowith the music. They push thesong forward, hold it back, andmove with it. That’s why they’resuch great drummers. Plus youcan sing all of their fills.MD: In one way, you are similarto Stevie, since he’s played all ofthe instruments on many of hisrecords and writes the music.When you write, how do the


Artist AlbumLenny Kravitz Mama SaidLenny Kravitz Cold Turkey (European release, import)

Vanessa Paradis Live At The Olympia In ParisNew Edition Christmas All Over The World

Al McKay All Stars Al DenteZoro The Funky Drummer (available at www.zorothedrummer.com)

Bobby Brown His PrerogativeVarious The World’s Greatest Artists Sing Lennon: A Tribute (With Lenny Kravitz)

Lenny Kravitz Lenny Kravitz Video Retrospective

Zoro The Ten Commandments Of R&B Drumming (DVD)Vanessa Paradis Video Collection

DrumCore Loop Sample Library (www.drumcore.com)

“I have over 6,000 CDs in my collection that I really do listen to, so this is very difficult for me to answer because mytastes and moods are broad. To me there are only two kinds of music, good and bad. I love everything that is goodregardless of style. As long as it is played well, from the heart, and inspired, it will move me. From Pavarotti to Prince,it’s all good! That being said, the following recordings hold a special place in my heart and never fail to inspire me.”

Artist Album DrummerFrank Sinatra & Count Basie It Might As Well Be Swing Sonny Payne

Elvis Presley Aloha From Hawaii Via Satellite Ronnie TuttStevie Wonder Songs In The Key Of Life Stevie Wonder, Raymond Pounds Stevie Wonder Hotter Than July Stevie Wonder, Raymond Pounds

Bill Withers Live At Carnegie Hall James GadsonBilly Cobham Magic Billy Cobham

James Brown Roots Of The Revolution Nat Kendrick, various othersThe Jacksons Triumph Ollie Brown

George Benson Livin’ Inside Your Love Steve GaddAretha Franklin Young, Gifted And Black Bernard Purdie, Al Jackson Jr., Ray LucasGeorge Benson In Flight Harvey Mason

Miles Davis The Musings Of Miles Philly Joe JonesThe Eleventh House Level One Alphonse Mouzon

Booker T. & The MGs Hip Hug Her Al Jackson Jr.The Eagles The Greatest Hits Vol. 1&2 Don HenleyPaul Simon One Trick Pony Steve Gadd

Chick Corea Friends Steve GaddSteely Dan The Royal Scam Bernard Purdie, Rick Marotta

Grover Washington Jr. Mister Magic Harvey MasonBoz Scaggs Down Two Then Left Jeff Porcaro

Nat King Cole The Very Thought Of You variousGrover Washington Jr. Skylarkin Idris Muhammad

“Plus any Gospel music, as well as anything by Led Zeppelin, Duke Ellington, The Rolling Stones, Chuck Mangione, Jimi Hendrix,Bill Withers, Count Basie, Nat King Cole, Aretha Franklin, and The Three Tenors.”

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drums factor into the process?Lenny: Whether I write a song on acousticguitar, piano, or in my head, the first thing Ilay down is the drums. For instance, I’ll gointo the studio and play the drums full outwith no music, or with somebody like myengineer Henry Hirsch playing piano. I’llteach him the song and ask him to play togive me a reference so I can lay down thedrum track.

While I’m playing the drums, I’m hear-ing the entire song in my head. And since Idid it on the drums first and I know whereI’m trying to go, I can fill on the guitar andbass in the same places, so it sounds like aband. I don’t think the listener can tell it’s aone-man band. Doing the drums first setsthe lyrical movement for the rest of thetrack. It’s very important.MD: When you’re recording, how do youdetermine the drum sound?Lenny: It all depends.

The Circus record had a lot of bigger drumsounds, with a little more Bonham influ-ence on the snare. My early records arewhat I call “pucky,” real dry and dead—notdead in tone, just no ring. It was a classicstudio setup. I used coated Emperor headson the drums and didn’t use a lot of micro-phones. On the first album, I used a fewmore, like a snare mic’. If you listen tosongs like “Does Anybody Out There EvenCare,” you can hear the mic’ on each drum,a clean studio sound. But later on, on thethird and fourth albums, I started using onlytwo microphones—one just a couple of feetfrom the kick and another set back and overthe kit for a more open sound. It’s themusic that leads me to what I need.

For the new album, I left the same kit setup for the entire record, which I loved. Ididn’t change the snare or anything. It wasan old 20" Ludwig kick, a 7x14 snare, a 13"mounted tom, and a 16" floor. I had one old

Zildjian crash cymbal, really dry—notzingy or brashy, just real warm—and an oldride, which I used as a crash a lot. And Ialso had an old pair of hi-hats, these dry, lit-tle hats that didn’t make a lot of noise. Youhit them and the sound goes away.MD: Lenny, were there other drum influ-ences?Lenny: In addition to Ringo and Stevie, myfavorite drummers are John Bonham,Ginger Baker, Keith Moon, and Tony Allen,the drummer who played with Fela Kut i , t he g rea t Nige r i an Af ro -pop musician.Zoro: Don’t forget Buddy Rich.Lenny: Oh yeah, I had to move out of myhouse because of Buddy Rich. I wanted to gosee Buddy play at Disneyland. I was fifteenand Buddy was getting a little older, so Iwanted to see him do those nice rolls and sin-gle strokes in person. But my dad told me Icouldn’t go, and we got in this huge thing. It

was like, “You went out lastnight,” and I said, “It doesn’tmatter, I’m going to seeBuddy Rich.” We ended uphaving this huge fight, andthat was the night I movedout.

Zoro and I went to thatshow together—he pickedme up—and the two of uswent to Disneyland wearingsuits and ties. Zoro and Ihad a deejay business at thetime called GQ Productions,so you know, we had to beall GQ in our ’80s knit ties,pleated slacks, and blazers.[laughs] But we saw BuddyRich.MD: Tell us about meetingZoro.Lenny: When I was a kid,my mom [Roxie Roker] gota television show [TheJeffersons], so we had tomove from New York to LA.That’s where I learned aboutrock ’n’ roll music, becausein New York it was basicallysoul and R&B. I didn’t livein Beverly Hills, but I gotinto Beverly Hills highbecause my mom knew thehead of the art department.Zoro didn’t go to the school,

Lenny’s Recordings:Let Love RuleMama SaidAre You Gonna Go My WayCircus5LennyBaptism

His Favorites:“Anything by Earth, Wind & Fire,Stevie Wonder, The Beatles, LedZeppelin, The Rolling Stones, BobMarley, Miles Davis, James Brown,Curtis Mayfield, David Bowie, andanything else that’s great!”

Besides the drummers mentionedin the interview, the following is ashort list of other drummers thatLenny is inspired by: Al Jackson Jr.,Bernard Purdie, the James Browndrummers, the Motown drummers,Bob Marley drummers, ZigabooModeliste, Roger Hawkins, HarveyMason, James “Diamond” Williams,Stewart Copeland, Jim Keltner,James Gadson, Morris Jennings,Elvin Jones, Buddy Rich, TonyWilliams, Gene Pello, and SteveGadd.

“Nothing gets past this brother. Lenny has def initely elevated my level ofdrumming.” ——ZZoorroo

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but he had moved to LA from Oregon andfigured he could meet new musicians.

I remember when Zoro came to theschool. He had on a silk suit with a yellowsilk shirt and a mother-of-pearl-facedwatch. He had his little shoes and his hairwas all cool. I saw him on the lawn, he hada pair of drumsticks, and somehow westarted talking. Next thing you know, I hadhim in music class and all of my classes,even though he didn’t go to the school! We

started jamming, and I took him up to[Motown founder] Berry Gordy’s son’shouse to jam. I was playing either bass orguitar, but from that night, I told Zoro,“We’ve gotta play together.”Zoro: How Lenny’s remembering all ofthis is just how he is as a musician. Hisattention to detail is incredible.MD: Were you both influenced by similarplayers, or were you sharing your influ-

ences with each other?Lenny: We were both very much intoEarth, Wind & Fire—Fred White, RalphJohnson, and Maurice White. We were alsointo Motown, The Funk Brothers, and funkmusic in general. I was into straight-aheadjazz, but Zoro was into fusion, and hebrought that to my attention. There are cer-tain fills I do—not so much on record, butwhen I’m jamming—that I picked up fromhim, like a six-stroke roll thing off the tom

and then to the snare—you know, Z?Zoro was heavily into Jeff Lorber Fusion

records, and he came with all of thosechops. I thought, “Damn, this guy has gotsome chops!” He was far more accom-plished than I was when we met, although Ialways had the groove. But I was blownaway by Zoro’s drumming.Zoro: Throughout the whole Let Love Ruleera, I learned so much from Lenny. As he

said, part of his drumming is my drum-ming, but it’s certainly the other wayaround as well. Part of the way I play—notthat I have a full, well-rounded vocabu-lary—but it comes from Lenny and theway he plays. I’ve seen the world’s greatestdrummers, but Lenny is right up there withany of them, and I’m not just saying thatbecause he’s sitting here.Lenny: You mean this gun to your headhas nothing to do with it? [laughs]

MD: Lenny, hit us with some of your all-time favorite tracks.Lenny: That’s a hard one. It would have tobe “Funky Drummer” [James Brown],because that one little break changed theworld. Hip-hop lived on that for years, soyou gotta give it up to that.

Another would be something like Ringoon “Hey Jude”—just those fills and thatraggedy-assed ride that he hits when Paul

“Stevie Wonder and Ringo Starr were my f irst drumming inf luences, and the reason I loved them so much isthat the drums go with the music. They push the song forward, hold it back, and move with it. Plus you cansing all of their f ills.”——Lenny Kravitz

Lenny & Zoro

sings, “And any time you feel the pain, heyJude, refrain.” Ringo is hitting that ride andit’s all clangy, clangy, clangy, like a trashcan. But it’s beautiful. His fills and thesound of the snare on that one are incredi-ble.

Other tracks that really moved me areJimi Hendrix’s “Manic Depression,” withMitch Mitchell on drums, and “WhoKnows,” with Buddy Miles. Plus anythingby Parliament Funkadelic, Earth, Wind &Fire, and maybe something by Steely Dan,like from Aja.MD: You said you took lessons in school.Were there other lessons?Lenny: I never took drum lessons on theset. I listened to records and had a naturalgroove. By the time I did Let Love Rule, Ihad my own style and my own thinggoing—although I wasn’t playing drumsmuch at all at that point. I would just showZoro what I wanted and he’d run with it.MD: Is it still like that?Lenny: Obviously now the gig is aboutplaying my music. The great thing aboutZoro is he’s an actor on the drums. That’simportant for any musician. If I’m going toplay a gig with a country artist, a blues

artist, a jazz artist, or a calypso artist, I’mgoing to become that drummer. When I’mplaying on my own record, if you listen todifferent songs, in my head, those are dif-ferent drummers.MD: Can you be specific about songs?Lenny: The drummer on “It Ain’t Over’Til It’s Over” and the drummer on “AreYou Gonna Go My Way” isn’t the drum-mer on “Stand By My Woman.” They’re alldifferent genres, so whether I’m playingbass, guitar, drums, or keyboards, some-times I picture different guys. Sometimesthe drummer is a big, fat, greasy dude witha bucket of chicken next to the drumkit.Sometimes it’s a little wiry white kid fromLondon, or a real hip, little Motown dude. Isee the guy.

Music is the same as a language. If Ispeak English, French, Arabic, or Italian, Ican communicate with more people thanthe next person. Having an arsenal of drumlanguages in your pocket lets you do morethings.

I remember when Zoro first started play-ing for me. He wasn’t so into MitchMitchell or John Bonham back in the day,and then he turned on to that and learned it,

like a language. So if I want something, Imight say, “This is a little more Bonham-y,” which points him in a direction.

When Zoro came back to the gig, webroke this thing down like you wouldn’tbelieve, like, “Really listen to the hi-hat.”Some people don’t pay attention to thefiner points. And in some cases, to getthose nuances, you have to hold your stickdifferently. You can’t hold your stick onlyone way.Zoro: Like on “It Ain’t Over ’Til It’sOver,” there’s a certain way you play those16th notes, but many people wouldapproach it like, “They’re just 16th notes.”But there are a thousand different ways toplay 16th notes. It can depend on where onthe stick you play, whether it’s the tip, thebead, or the shaft. But those are all thethings that give Lenny’s music the charac-ter it has. You have to really listen for howall of it is being played.Lenny: Like on “Always On The Run,” it’show the hi-hats are talking, how they’rechugging along. It’s all character to me, it’sall sound, it’s all detail. A lot of guys—great professional players—don’t get that.They don’t hear, “I gotta hold my stick like


this, I gotta bend and hunch over the drumlike this to get that attitude.”

When I play the drums, I play them fivehundred different ways, depending on thesound I’m trying to get. I’ll play matchedgrip, traditional, hold the sticks higher up,lower down, loose, tight, I’ll hunch over,I’ll back the seat up—whatever it takes toget the right sound.MD: Can we hit some specifics and whatyour dialog with Z may have been likewhile rehearsing?Lenny: This time around with the band, Ireally wanted to get back to the essence ofthe records—what makes each song on therecord special and what gives it its owncharacter. I’m not trying to reproduce therecord so much as really trying to giveeach song the right character. Everybodyin the band can be playing every note fromthe record, but if Zoro’s hi-hat isn’t goingthe right way, the whole thing soundswrong, right?

When Zoro came back in, I told him Iwanted him to listen carefully to everytune. Sometimes the bass drum goesboom, sometimes it has a slight ghosteffect. The snare might be really dead, soyou tape up the drum, or it’s wide open.The ride cymbal is washy, but it’s not reallya ride, I’m riding on a big crash. I wantedhim to listen for all of the different colorsthat make the song feel right. And he,being a true sport, did that.

It’s not always easy for a great drummerto hear, “You’ve gotta do this.” But Zorounderstood that in order to get the characterof the song, he had to do it. He studied allof the material. I left him alone in a roompretty much for fifteen hours a day, listen-ing, playing, and finding the nuances.MD: What was that process like, Z? Canyou give us some examples of what mighthave been the toughest tunes to copor some of the minute details youwere excited about?Zoro: It was all totally thrilling forme. Lenny knows that we’re bothmusic freaks. You don’t have to talkeither one of us into listening to music orgetting into the character of it, becausethat’s what we live for. When he gave methat opportunity, I really did look at it as if Iwas a theater actor who had to get into thecharacter of each tune. It was a lot of work,but it was really fun work. That’s what I’ddone when I did my books, videos, and

DVDs. I did exactly what Lenny had beendoing for years with his music.Lenny: Which, incidentally, is why Icalled Zoro back. Well, it’s really deeperthan that. It also had something to do withhis video. I was in the Bahamas, staying ina trailer on the beach. I had gone there bymyself, just to meditate for five days. Atone point while I was there, I got really stir

crazy with no TV. I was thinking, “Pleaselet me find a DVD or something,” andZoro’s instructional video was therebecause he had given it to me a couple ofyears earlier. I thought, “I’m so bored, I’mgoing to watch this drum instructionalvideo. Let me see what my friend did.” I

watched it, and he was amazing. Zoro hadstudied and learned so much and had aknack for teaching it. I saw how he hadgrown.MD: How did you two get back together?Lenny: That’s more of a spiritual story.That’s about God wanting us back in eachother’s lives. It’s beyond music. I didn’tspeak to Zoro until I was looking for some-one else. I had a lot of great years withCindy Blackman. She’s an amazing, amaz-ing drummer and an amazing person, but itwas time for a change and I didn’t knowwho I was going to call. But then Zorohappened to call me about a week before

all this came down. He called about a cer-tain guitar he had heard about that was forsale that he thought I might want. He lefthis number on my machine, and when itcame time to look for a new drummer, Ithought, I should call Zoro. I didn’t knowhow to reach him, and then I rememberedhis message was still on my machine.MD: Let’s switch gears and talk aboutyour upcoming tour. What can we expectfrom the live show?

Lenny: There’s a lot of improvisation inthe show, and Zoro has a couple of drumsolos that are quite extended. We do that onseveral songs. On “Fear,” he takes this EdShaughnessy, big band thing. And on“Always On The Run,” we go into thisheavy funk section. “American Woman”goes into a sort of Arabic groove. AndZoro is playing this great kit I helpeddesign for him—a double kick set with all

these toms and a gong. He’s really givingus the “rock legend” look this year.MD: Lenny, are you going to play drumsin the show?Lenny: After the first leg of the tour,Zoro and I are going to work out a drumduet. It’s still in the planning stages.Zoro: It’s going to be slammin’. One day

at rehearsal in Miami, we were playing“Caravan,” and Lenny was on the drums. Ileaned over and started playing these duetrhythms on the rims against his groove. Wewere so happy. One thing Lenny and I havealways been able to do, no matter whatinstrument he was on, is groove and con-nect. Since both of us are drummers atheart, doing this drum duet will be awe-some.MD: You said you won’t actually be play-ing together until round two of this tour.But from the sound of things, I don’t think

Lenny & Zoro

From 1980, Lenny and Zoro running their discobusiness, GQ Productions.

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In 1991, recording a remakeof the John Lennon classic“Cold Turkey.”

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during the“Let Love

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Also from 1980, in the studiorecording withtheir first group,Wave.


you’re going to be able to resist.Lenny: I know, right? We’ll have somecongas set up and ready to go, and someother things, so if I push Z off the drumsethe can go to the congas.Zoro: Lenny designed the whole thing ofhow he wanted the drums to look, which isphenomenal. He wanted a red sparkle kit,but with all gold hardware.Lenny: All of it. Every wingnut and bassdrum pedal.Zoro: You’ve never seen anything like it.It’s like something out of heaven, all 24-karat gold-plated. I’m on a riser with lightson the bottom, plus there’s a lot of pyro,and we actually use the gong on “AmericanWoman.” The audience loves it.

This band slams. It has influences of TheStones, Sly & The Family Stone, Earth,Wind & Fire, and The Who. It’s the best ofall great music rolled into one. What weget to do in “Fear” is like Count Basiemeeting Curtis Mayfield. I couldn’t be hap-pier playing what I’m playing, because itdraws from all the music I love. And per-sonally, I couldn’t be happier because I getto make music with my buddy again.

To me the best quality that Lenny has,aside from the fact that he is a musicalgenius, is that he loves to laugh. He lovesto have a good time, and we’re both at aplace in our lives where we’re just so muchmore comfortable with who we are than wewere in the Mama Said and Let Love Ruleera. Lenny has really matured musically,but he’s also matured personally.

Both Lenny and I are Christians. There’sa scripture in the Bible that reads, “Steps ofa righteous man are ordered by God.”We’re not righteous because we’re right-eous, we’re righteous because we believein Jesus. I believe God orchestrated oursteps. Our being back together isn’t any-thing that Lenny and I manipulated.

The beautiful thing is we’ve growntogether and our lives have been inter-twined from the day we met. That prophet-ic dream I had has come to pass. Eventhough he didn’t ask me to come backwhen he called right after the dream, it feltlike it was God orchestrating our reunion.

My whole career has been blessed byGod. He blessed me with Lenny in my lifewhen I was seventeen, because my wholecareer traces back to him. The New Editiongig was my first big thing, which got mestarted, and it wouldn’t have happened

without Lenny. It was Lenny who calledme about the audition. In fact, we wentdown there together. He auditioned on gui-tar, and thank God he didn’t get the gig. Hewas destined to become the Lenny he is.

Because of that gig, and bringing himbackstage when I was on tour with them,he met Lisa Bonet. Lenny wouldn’t havehis daughter if I hadn’t had the NewEdition gig. And the other day when wewere hanging out, I told him I was sohappy and that this was the happiest timeof my life. And I was thinking that, if I had

been with him during all of those years I’dbeen gone, I would never have met mywife, I would never have had my kids, andI wouldn’t have done my book or video.

I missed Lenny during that time. I’dwatch him on TV and think, “Man, I suremiss playing behind him,” in addition tomissing him as a person. There has neverbeen anyone I enjoyed making music withmore than Lenny.MD: You say that Lenny is a musicalgenius. Isn’t it hard to be his drummer inthat he’s such a genius?

Zoro: What’s hard is that nothing gets pastthis brother. You’re not going to sneak onething by him that you might be able tosneak by any other artist you’d play with. Idon’t look at anything negative, but hemakes me work harder to get somethingexactly right, which in the end makes usboth winners. He has definitely elevatedmy level of drumming.

If you work with an artist who isn’t adrummer and you play something reallygreat, he or she may never notice it. Butwith Lenny, if you do something awe-some—and I don’t mean necessarily anawesome lick, just something cool—heknows it. The other night we played “AreYou Gonna Go My Way,” and afterwardshe turned around and said, “That’s the bestthis song has ever felt.” When you’re atyour 100%, he’s hearing it, receiving it,and you get praise from him for it. Youwon’t get that from somebody who isn’t adrummer.MD: Lenny, what are your favorite drumtracks on the new album?Lenny: I really like the simplest ones, like“I Don’t Want To Be A Star.” It’s kick andsnare, that’s it, no hat—but that just drivesthe song. The reason I didn’t add the hat isit clouded up the feel of the tune, so I justplayed kick and snare. I love the simplicityof that, like on the Stevie Wonder song“You Ain’t Got Nothin’.” I also liked thefunky little groove on “Minister Of Rock’N’ Roll.”Zoro: I love the title track, “Baptized.”What Lenny played was so perfect and soclassic, and the fills are so Ringo-inspiredand laid-back. Some of my favorite Lennytracks are the simplest ones, but they’re notreally that simple. To play with suchauthority, finesse, and heart and soul, andresist the temptation to do twenty fills, isamazing. That goes by most drummers. Onthe single “Where Are We Runnin’,” Lennyplays a mean, fat drum track—an 8th-notegroove that is a kickin’ pattern, without onefill or crash.Lenny: I don’t think “I Don’t Want To BeA Star” has a fill either. Sometimes it’sjust, “Ah, don’t play it, just keep driving.”MD: Zoro, are there any tunes that are par-ticularly difficult to cop?Zoro: “I Don’t Want To Be A Star” washard to play because we’re all used to play-ing hi-hat to lock in the kick and snare.


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When there’s no hi-hat and you’re justplaying kick and snare, it’s kind of likestanding naked in front of a mirror.

“Minister Of Rock ’N’ Roll” is a perfectfunk-rock kind of groove. They’re all chal-lenging. In “Calling All Angels,” there’snot a single fill. It’s just a beautifullyplayed hi-hat, kick, and snare pattern. Toplay any tune for three to five minuteswhere you’re not going to do a fill or hi-hatopening and give the tune emotion so itdoesn’t sound boring is a challenge.Someone else might play that tune and putpeople to sleep, so to put the soul into itlike Lenny did is the challenge. I’ve beenwatching Lenny’s drumming grow in allthese rehearsals, because whenever I stepoff the drums to go to the bathroom orsomething, Lenny jumps on them.Lenny: Or I push him off. [laughs]Zoro: I watched him the other night fromthe side of the stage, and he went into aJames Brown kind of groove, which was soridiculous. The character was so there. Atthat point he was James Brown’s drummer.One of the singers and I picked up tam-bourines to be a part of that groove.

I’ve been watching Lenny play such avariety of styles during rehearsals. I’vewatched him play swing, funk, and BuddyMiles–type rock, and everything he plays iswith complete heart and soul and authen-ticity. Drummers need to check out whathe’s played on his albums and realize whata great drummer he is.Lenny: So many people are consumedwith the rock star celebrity crap, but for meit’s all about the music. What the worldmakes of me has nothing to do with who Iam. When I’m making a record, I’m in thestudio eighteen hours a day, and I don’tcome out until they drag me out. That’swhat I’m about. But somehow, when I domost interviews, it’s never about the music.MD: Lenny, what are your favorite self-written tracks? What three tunes would youput on an audition tape for God?Lenny: “My Precious Love,” because Iheld that sucker back, and wondered how Iwas so in time without having anybodyelse to play to. I don’t mean to pat myselfon the back, but it’s so laid-back it’scrazy—2 and 4 is almost 3 and 1. “Fear,”off the first record, is kind of happening.Zoro: “It Ain’t Over” is great.Lenny: I was doing my Earth, Wind &

Fire groove on that one.Zoro: “Are You Gonna Go My Way.”Lenny: Yeah, that’s a nice, sloppy, butright-in-there track.MD: There has to be something really spe-cial about having grown up with someoneand then playing music together.Lenny: Of course. When we playedtogether the first time, it was great, but wewere younger and not settled, goingthrough all the growing stuff—arguing,fighting, things that are nonsense but a partof growing up. It’s nice to be able to playtogether again as more mature people—spiritually, mentally, and musically.MD: Zoro, you’ve watched this guy—yourdeejay bud—become an unbelievable artist.It must be such a rush to be sitting behindhim playing the drums.Zoro: It’s an awesome feeling because, ofall the people I met when I moved to LA,Lenny and I got along so great and dideverything together. I totally loved him likea brother, and his mother treated me like ason. What I missed most about Lenny inthe years that I wasn’t with him was Lennyhimself. When he called me from theBahamas after seeing the video, I had totell him about the dream I had the nightbefore, and I had the chills because wehadn’t talked in several years.Lenny: The last time I had seen him was atthe memorial for my mom, when I met hiswife for the first time.Zoro: It was just a reconnection, and Iremember him saying, “I’m really proud ofyou with what you did with the book andvideo.”Lenny: Yeah, because he didn’t remember,but many years before, when we were ontour, he and I were walking down FifthAvenue in New York one night. He had hisbriefcase with all his notes and said, “I’mgoing to do a drum instructional thing andwrite a book.” I realized when I saw thetape many years later that he had done it.

Both of us being on the cover of thismagazine together is just as exciting asbeing on the cover of Rolling Stone. Thatwe’re on the cover of the thing that broughtus both together in the first place—drumsand music—is so cool. Those are thingsyou dream about at sixteen—makingrecords and being on the cover of ModernDrummer. All these years later, here we arewith the thing that brought us together.


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by Robyn Flans