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Assessment at the level of context, process and outcome: the experiential approach. Ferre Laevers Research Centre for Experiential Education Leuven University. A. Assessing the process. Quality in care and education. OUTPUT objectives outcomes. CONTEXT means principles. PROCESS. . - PowerPoint PPT Presentation
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Assessment at the level of Assessment at the level of context, process and context, process and
outcome: outcome: the experiential approachthe experiential approach
Ferre LaeversFerre LaeversResearch Centre Research Centre
for Experiential Educationfor Experiential EducationLeuven UniversityLeuven University
A. Assessing the processA. Assessing the process
Quality in care and Quality in care and educationeducation
PROCESS OUTPUTobjectivesoutcomes
CONTEXT
meansprinciples
INVOLVEMENTWELL-BEING
Well-beingWell-being When children...When children...
feel at easefeel at easeact spontaneouslyact spontaneouslyare open to the world and accessibleare open to the world and accessibleexpress inner rest and relaxationexpress inner rest and relaxationshow vitality and self-confidence show vitality and self-confidence are in touch with their feelings and are in touch with their feelings and emotionsemotionsenjoy life enjoy life
...we know that their mental health is secured
InvolvemenInvolvementt
When children are...When children are...concentrated and focussedconcentrated and focussedinterested, motivated, fascinatedinterested, motivated, fascinatedmentally activementally activefully experiencing sensations and fully experiencing sensations and meaningsmeaningsenjoying the satisfaction of the enjoying the satisfaction of the exploratory drive exploratory drive operating at the very limits of their operating at the very limits of their capabilities capabilities
...we know that deep level learning is taking place
The Leuven The Leuven Involvement Involvement
ScaleScale5 levels5 levels
>>1 No activity1 No activity>>2 Interrupted activity2 Interrupted activity>>3 Activity without intensity3 Activity without intensity>>4 Activity with intense 4 Activity with intense
momentsmoments>>5 Continuous intense activity5 Continuous intense activity
The scale for in-service The scale for in-service trainingtraining
>>1 Very boring – I stayed because it was 1 Very boring – I stayed because it was impossible to leaveimpossible to leave
>>3 I heard it all, but nothing really caught 3 I heard it all, but nothing really caught my my attentionattention
>>5 I‘m impressed by fascinating thoughts 5 I‘m impressed by fascinating thoughts that carry me awaythat carry me away
INVOLVEMENT IN 3 CHILDREN
35
9
5
02
10
13
0 0 01
19
8
002468
10121416182022
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 CHI LD 1 = 2,7 CHI LD 2 = 3,5 CHI LD 3 = 4,3
Num
ber
of in
terv
als
I NVOLVEMENT I N 10 SETTI NGS
3,5
3,9
3,53,4
3,53,6
3,1
3,43,3
3
2,8
3,1
3,4
3,7
4
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10S e t t i n g s
Leve
ls of
invo
lveme
nt
PROCESS ORIENTED CHILD MONITORING SYSTEMStep 1 : Group screening for well-being and involvement
Group: 23 five year olds Date: October
NAMES WELL-BEING INVOLVEMENT COMMENTS
Abrachim ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Tom ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Ben ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Olivier ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Daan ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Raf ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
J asper ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Sebastiaan ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Ward ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Ruben ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
J oris ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Stefaan ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Frederik ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
J elle ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Kaat ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
I lke ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Els ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Leen ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Sara ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Marijke ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Eline ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Elize ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
Mies ? L M H ? L M H ……………………………………
PROCESSORIENTEDCHILD MONITORINGSYSTEMStep 1 : Group screeningfor well-beingandinvolvement
SCANNINGSFORMULIER BETROKKENHEID
SCHOOLCODE: KLASCODE LEERKRACHTCODE:
VAK : AANTAL LLN
DATUM: BEGIN/EINDE INTERVAL: ..........u. ........ tot ..........u. ........
TOELICHTING CONTEXT
LEERLINGminimaal 1
SCOREomcirkel cijfer of tussenwaarde
TOELICHTINGbeschrijv ing van gedrag en ev. relevante contextgegevens
1 1 2 3 4 5
2 1 2 3 4 5
3 1 2 3 4 5
4 1 2 3 4 5
5 1 2 3 4 5
6 1 2 3 4 5
7 1 2 3 4 5
8 1 2 3 4 5
9 1 2 3 4 5
10 1 2 3 4 5
11 1 2 3 4 5
12 1 2 3 4 5
FREQU.
OMSCHRIJVING SCHAALWAARDENNiveau 1 GEEN ACTIVITEIT volledig afgehaakt - dromen - prullen - tijdvullend niet-functioneel gedragNiveau 2 VAAK ONDERBRO KEN ACTIVITEIT taakgerichte momenten + afhaken - beperkte mentale activiteitNiveau 3 +/- AANGEHO UDEN ACTIVITEIT activiteit zonder echte concentratie - oppervlakkig volgenNiveau 4 ACTIVITEIT MET INTENSE MO MENTEN momenten van concentratie & substantiële mentale activiteitNiveau 5 AANGEHO UDEN INTENSE ACTIVITEIT doorlopend sterk geconcentreerd - volkomen opgeslorpt
- -
SCANNINGPROCEDUREFORINVOLVEMENT
-distribution of scores in 2 classgroups-
Scanning Scanning ‘involvement’:‘involvement’:
results results 11 1.51.5 2 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 mean 2 2.5 3 3.5 4 4.5 5 mean
0 10 1 2 2 2 2 11 2 2 0 02 2 0 0 2.852.85
0 0 0 00 0 0 0 11 2 4 1 22 4 1 2 4.004.00
Scanning Scanning ‘involvement’: ‘involvement’:
< 2.9 2.9-3.2 3.3-3.6 3.7-4.0 >4.0< 2.9 2.9-3.2 3.3-3.6 3.7-4.0 >4.0School 1 1School 1 1 2 2 3 3 2 2 0 0School 2 1School 2 1 2 2 4 4 2 2 0 0School 3 1School 3 1 0 0 7 7 3 3 0 0School 4 2School 4 2 8 8 2 2 2 2 1 1School 5 1School 5 1 0 0 5 5 3 3 0 0School 6 1School 6 1 1 1 2 2 5 5 0 0TotalTotal 77 1313 23 23 1717 1 1
-distribution of 61 classes (primary school)-
Questionnaire children (school a)
Involvement in grades 3 to 6 [8-12 yr]
0
5
1 0
1 5
2 0
2 5
3 0
3 5
4 0
4 5
5 0
L e z en
Sp e ll en
L u i st e
ren e
n s
p rek en
Ste
ll en
Taa lb
e scho u w
i ng
Hoo
f dre
k e n en
Ci j f
e r en
Met
end re
k e n en
Me e tk
u n de
Vra
a g stuk k en
%
n 1n 2n 3n 4n 5
reading spe lling convers. compos . grammar mental ar. written ar. measur . geom prob.solv.
Questionnaire children (school a)
Involvement in grades 3 to 6 [8-12 yr]
0
10
20
30
40
50
60
70
80
90
%
n1n2n3n4n5
painting modelg drawing music gym swim. ph/soc sc. Contr.w. projects groupw. home w.
verwerking 1 - algemeen welbevinden oktober
Welbevinden op school Welbevinden in de klas 2de jaar
toelichting toelichting
Naam score op 5
Gaan leerkrachten goed met je om?
Gaat ander personeel goed met je om?
Voel je je goed bij de andere leerlingen van onze school?
Vind je regels en af spraken op school redelijk?
Vind je lokalen en gebouwen aangenaam?
score op 5
I s er een toff e sf eer in jouw klasgroep?
Kan je jezelf zijn in jouw klasgroep?
Word j ij gepest in jouw klasgroep?
Achmed 3 ja ja nee nee nee 2 nee nee ja Bjorn 4 ja ja ja nee nee 2 nee nee ja Frederik 2 nee ja nee nee nee 1 nee nee ja Glenn 4 ja ja ja ja ja 4 ja nee nee Kevin 3 ja nee nee nee nee 2 nee nee ja Kristel 1 nee nee nee nee nee 1 nee nee ja Lieven 4 ja ja nee ja nee 5 ja ja nee Mohamed 4 ja ja ja ja nee 4 ja ja nee Sirche 4 ja ja ja ja ja 4 ja nee ja Hakim 4 ja ja ja ja nee 4 ja ja nee Fatima 5 ja ja ja ja ja 4 ja nee ja Fien 3 nee ja ja nee nee 3 nee nee nee Sylvio 4 ja ja ja ja ja 3 nee nee nee Tom 4 ja ja ja nee ja 4 ja nee nee Sarah 4 ja ja nee ja nee 2 nee ja ja Stien 3 nee ja ja nee nee 4 ja nee ja Sergio 3 ja ja ja nee nee 1 nee nee ja J oris 1 nee nee nee nee nee 1 nee nee ja Pieter 4 ja ja ja nee ja 5 ja nee nee totaal: 19 3.3 aantal ja:14 aantal ja: 16 aantal ja: 12 aantal ja: 8 aantal ja: 6 2.9 aantal ja: 9 aantal ja: 4 aantal ja: 11
klas: 2d maand oktober vak Nederlands Betrokkenheid toelichting door de leerling Competentie toelichting welbevinden
Naam leerkrachtscore leerlingscore
I s het mogelijk om geconcentreerd te werken tijdens de lessen?
Houdt de leerkracht rekening met je kunnen?
I s het altijd duidelij k wat je moet doen?
Zit er voldoendel af wisseling in de lessen?
Krijg je voldoende kansen om zelf aan het werk te zijn?
I s wat je leert zinvol en levensecht?
Heb je inspraak in het bepalen van de inhoud van de lessen?
Wordt er geluisterd naar leerlingen en met hun mening rekening gehouden?
leerkrachtscore leerlingscore Ben je geïnteresseerd in dit vak?
leerkrachtscore leerlingscore
Achmed 3 4 ja ja ja nee ja ja ja ja 3 4 3 3 4 Bjorn 3 4 nee ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 5 5 4 2 4 Frederik 2 3 nee ja ja nee ja ja ja nee 2 4 3 2 3 Glenn 4 4 ja ja nee nee ja ja ja ja 4 4 3 3 2 Kevin 3 3 nee ja nee nee ja nee ja nee 4 2 2 3 2 Kristel 1 1 nee nee nee nee ja nee nee nee 3 2 2 3 3 Lieven 4 5 ja ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 5 5 5 3 5 Mohamed 2 4 nee nee ja ja ja ja ja ja 2 5 4 2 4 Sirche 4 4 nee ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 2 4 4 4 3 Hakim 5 4 nee ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 4 4 4 4 4 Fatima 4 2 nee nee nee nee ja ja ja nee 4 3 3 3 4 Fien 4 3 nee nee ja nee ja ja nee ja 4 3 2 2 3 Sylvio 4 3 nee ja ja nee ja ja nee ja 3 4 4 3 3 Tom 5 4 nee ja nee nee ja ja ja ja 4 4 4 4 4 Sarah 5 4 nee ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 4 4 4 5 4 Stien 4 3 nee ja nee ja ja nee ja nee 2 3 3 3 4 Sergio 2 3 nee ja ja ja ja nee ja nee 4 3 3 3 4 J oris 3 3 ja nee ja nee ja nee nee nee 2 4 4 3 3 Peter 4 5 nee ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 4 5 5 2 5 totaal: 19 3.5 3.5 aantal ja: 4 aantal
ja: 14 aantal ja: 13
aantal ja: 9
aantal ja: 19
aantal ja: 14
aantal ja: 15
aantal ja:12 3.4 3.8 3.5 3.0 3.6
Conclusions about assessing Conclusions about assessing the processthe process
Contains key information to improve qualityContains key information to improve quality immediate feedback about qualityimmediate feedback about quality the shortest road to interventionsthe shortest road to interventions
A conclusive criterion for risk of stagnationA conclusive criterion for risk of stagnation tells who is taking advantage from our efforts tells who is taking advantage from our efforts and who doesn’tand who doesn’t
Name
Bart
Els
Jamal
Hans
Daan
Involvement
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
Competence
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
Comments loves maths
gives up easily
afraid to make mistakes
finds maths boring
holds on to material
Excerpt from the "Process-oriented Monitoring System"Subject: mathematics in first grade of primary school
Process or product-oriented?
Involvement
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
1 2 3 4 5
B. The experiential view on B. The experiential view on developmentdevelopment
Shows excellent physical skills for his/her age, Shows excellent physical skills for his/her age, which is demonstrated in a broad range of which is demonstrated in a broad range of situations where movement is required. It is a situations where movement is required. It is a pleasure observing his/her movements in pleasure observing his/her movements in space: supple and graceful, purposeful and space: supple and graceful, purposeful and with efficacy, in an adjusted pace, rhythmical, with efficacy, in an adjusted pace, rhythmical, readily reacting to changes and signals. Picks readily reacting to changes and signals. Picks up new patterns of movement very easily.up new patterns of movement very easily.
Gross motor development 1
Deep-level-learningDeep-level-learning Holistic in natureHolistic in nature
far from a checklist of isolated skillsfar from a checklist of isolated skills grasps the essencegrasps the essence
Is very skilful in handling objects and tools: is Is very skilful in handling objects and tools: is able to perform complex operations fluently able to perform complex operations fluently and with precision. Masters a broad range of and with precision. Masters a broad range of manipulations. Has an excellent co-ordination manipulations. Has an excellent co-ordination of hand and fingers, detached from the rest of of hand and fingers, detached from the rest of the body. Easily picks up new patterns of the body. Easily picks up new patterns of movement.movement.
Fine motor development 2
Succeeds in expressing feelings and experiences Succeeds in expressing feelings and experiences via artistic activities and deals with these via artistic activities and deals with these experiences by expressing them. Has an eye for experiences by expressing them. Has an eye for aesthetic aspects in dealing with space. Takes aesthetic aspects in dealing with space. Takes advantage of the elements of design (symbols, advantage of the elements of design (symbols, colours, proportions...) to express his/her colours, proportions...) to express his/her intuitions and emotions. Can express him/herself intuitions and emotions. Can express him/herself through a broad range of artistic forms of through a broad range of artistic forms of expression and can fully enjoy artistic objects (art).expression and can fully enjoy artistic objects (art).
Expression through arts 3
Has a strong verbal capacity: succeeds in Has a strong verbal capacity: succeeds in formulating experiences, perceptions and formulating experiences, perceptions and thoughts with precision and in a fluent and thoughts with precision and in a fluent and expressive way. Uses differentiated vocabulary expressive way. Uses differentiated vocabulary and complex linguistic structures. Has a well-and complex linguistic structures. Has a well-developed sense of symbols. Masters (initial) developed sense of symbols. Masters (initial) reading and writing skills. reading and writing skills.
Reflects on language and linguistic properties.Reflects on language and linguistic properties.
Language 4
Is keen to explore and experience physical Is keen to explore and experience physical phenomena. Has a differentiated sense of phenomena. Has a differentiated sense of properties and patterns of objects and living properties and patterns of objects and living creatures. Can make sound predictions about creatures. Can make sound predictions about the effects of combinations of materials and the effects of combinations of materials and interventions. Is able to come up with adequate interventions. Is able to come up with adequate interventions on objects and nature and to deal interventions on objects and nature and to deal with the physical world successfully.with the physical world successfully.
Understanding of the physical world 5
Deep-level-learningDeep-level-learning Holistic in natureHolistic in nature
far from a checklist of isolated skillsfar from a checklist of isolated skills grasp the essencegrasp the essence
The concept of ‘schema’The concept of ‘schema’
Reality
Men
tal s
chem
es
Deep-level-learningDeep-level-learning Holistic in natureHolistic in nature
far from a checklist of isolated skillsfar from a checklist of isolated skills grasp the essencegrasp the essence
The concept of ‘schema’The concept of ‘schema’ change the program instead of adding fileschange the program instead of adding files a dynamic processa dynamic process
Has a strong and differentiated awareness of Has a strong and differentiated awareness of his/her own feelings and perceptions. Shows a his/her own feelings and perceptions. Shows a lot of interest in the social reality. Has a well-lot of interest in the social reality. Has a well-developed role-taking capacity: can enter into developed role-taking capacity: can enter into people’s feelings, needs and thoughts, takes people’s feelings, needs and thoughts, takes them into account and acts accordingly. them into account and acts accordingly. Masters a broad range of social behaviours and Masters a broad range of social behaviours and strategies and knows how to implement them strategies and knows how to implement them successfully.successfully.
Social competence 6
Shows an excellent power of abstraction: Shows an excellent power of abstraction: consequently handles criteria to sort or classify consequently handles criteria to sort or classify objects, masters the necessary concepts to objects, masters the necessary concepts to grasp the world of spatial relations, time and grasp the world of spatial relations, time and quantities. Holds spontaneous courses of quantities. Holds spontaneous courses of reasoning by linking phenomena, describing reasoning by linking phenomena, describing patterns and use concepts.patterns and use concepts.
Logical and mathematical thinking 7
Is able to manage him/herself well: knows what Is able to manage him/herself well: knows what (s)he wants, can set goals, can engage into (s)he wants, can set goals, can engage into action without delay and achieve a good result. action without delay and achieve a good result. Does not give up at the first obstacle and can Does not give up at the first obstacle and can persist in order to reach his/her goal. Can step persist in order to reach his/her goal. Can step back and work strategically. Is able to exploit back and work strategically. Is able to exploit various possibilities and adapt to changing various possibilities and adapt to changing circumstances. Is not ruled by his/her circumstances. Is not ruled by his/her surroundings, but actively determines the surroundings, but actively determines the group’s course together with others.group’s course together with others.
Self-organisation 8
Basic qualitiesBasic qualities➊➊ Respect of the childRespect of the child
➋➋ An open framework-approachAn open framework-approach
➌➌ A rich environmentA rich environment
➍➍ RepresentationRepresentation
➎➎ Communication / interaction / inclusionCommunication / interaction / inclusion
➏➏ Observation, observation, observationObservation, observation, observation
Een ‘open framework’Een ‘open framework’
Programmed learning
Custodial
Open framework
Child-oriented
Initiative of the adult
Initiative of the child
C. Assessing the outputC. Assessing the output
Quality in care and Quality in care and educationeducation
PROCESS OUTPUTobjectivesoutcomes
CONTEXT
meansprinciples
At the school levelAt the school level Develop aDevelop an open framework approachn open framework approach
high level of initiative from both teachers and high level of initiative from both teachers and children/studentschildren/students
Make teachers competent observersMake teachers competent observers grasp the essence of the developmental area(s) grasp the essence of the developmental area(s) to create a rich environmentto create a rich environment see the ‘cognitive loading’ of activitiessee the ‘cognitive loading’ of activities enrich the environment (make the soup thicker)enrich the environment (make the soup thicker) recognize the levels of competencerecognize the levels of competence
A A PARADIGM PARADIGM
SHIFT ! SHIFT !
At the national levelAt the national level Make schools accountable for ‘effort’ not for Make schools accountable for ‘effort’ not for ‘outcome’‘outcome’
all developmental domains addressed in activities?all developmental domains addressed in activities? level of involvement sufficient for deep level learning?level of involvement sufficient for deep level learning?
Principles of a sound approach:Principles of a sound approach: never make public school-related information about never make public school-related information about test-resultstest-results use national tests to give feedbackuse national tests to give feedback select topics for testing that are crucial for societyselect topics for testing that are crucial for society develop a new generation of instruments for develop a new generation of instruments for assessmentassessment
A A PARADIGM PARADIGM
SHIFT ! SHIFT !
The quality of life in societyThe quality of life in societyas the final testas the final test
Well-being and involvement Well-being and involvement as the best test for schoolas the best test for school
Implications for practiceImplications for practice A rich environmentA rich environment
each developmental area representedeach developmental area represented
An open framework approachAn open framework approach high level of initiative from both teachers and high level of initiative from both teachers and children/studentschildren/students
Reflective teachingReflective teaching observation as source of informationobservation as source of information a non-lineair rational approacha non-lineair rational approach
A PARADIGM SHIFT ! A PARADIGM SHIFT !
Finding the packageFinding the package
At the national levelAt the national level Make schools accountable for ‘effort’ not for Make schools accountable for ‘effort’ not for ‘outcome’‘outcome’
Principles of a sound approach:Principles of a sound approach:Make accountable for ‘effort’ not for ‘outcome’Make accountable for ‘effort’ not for ‘outcome’
are all developmental domains represented in children’s activities?are all developmental domains represented in children’s activities?is the level of involvolvement sufficient to expect deep level is the level of involvolvement sufficient to expect deep level learning?learning?
A PARADIGM SHIFT ! A PARADIGM SHIFT !
3. Vakgegevens Betrokkenheid toelichting bij betrokkenheid Welbevinden Competentie
vakken score leerkracht
score leerling
I s het mogelijk om
geconcentreerd te werken tijdens de
lessen?
Houdt de leerkracht rekening met je kunnen
I s het altijd
duidelijk wat je moet
doen?
Zit er voldoende af wisseling
in de lessen?
Krijg je voldoende
kansen om zelf aan het werk te zijn?
I s wat je leert zinvol
en levensecht?
Heb je inspraak in het
bepalen van de inhoud van de
lessen?
Wordt er geluisterd naar leerlingen en met hun mening rekening gehouden?
score leerkracht
score leerling
score interesse
score leerkracht
score leerling
Nederlands 4 ja ja nee ja ja nee ja ja 2 2 4 Frans 2 ja nee nee nee ja nee ja nee 3 3 3 Engels 3 ja ja ja ja nee nee ja ja 2 3 4 Latijn 2 nee nee ja ja nee nee nee nee 3 3 4 Grieks 4 ja ja ja ja ja ja ja nee 4 3 5 wiskunde 3 nee nee nee nee ja nee ja nee 2 1 3 f ysica 4 ja ja ja ja ja nee ja nee 4 4 3 biologie 2 nee nee nee ja ja nee nee nee 3 3 4 aardrijkskunde 4 nee ja ja ja ja nee ja nee 4 4 4 geschiedenis 4 ja ja ja ja ja nee ja ja 5 4 4 godsdienst 5 ja ja ja ja ja ja ja ja 5 5 3 informatica 2 nee nee nee ja ja nee ja nee 3 2 1 muzik. opv. 2 ja nee nee nee nee nee ja nee 3 2 3 lich. opv. 2 nee ja nee ja ja nee nee nee 3 3 2 gemiddelde 3.07 3.28 3.00 3.35
THE ZONE OF PROXIMAL THE ZONE OF PROXIMAL DEVELOPMENTDEVELOPMENT
diffi
cult
y of
tas
kdi
fficu
lty
of t
ask
competence of the childcompetence of the child
involve
ment
involve
mentfear of
failure
boredom
depression
Basic competenciesBasic competenciesGross motor developmentGross motor developmentFine motor developmentFine motor developmentExpression through visual artsExpression through visual artsExpression through languageExpression through languageUnderstanding the world of objectsUnderstanding the world of objectsUnderstanding the world of peopleUnderstanding the world of peopleLogical mathematical competenceLogical mathematical competenceSelf-organisation & entrepreneurshipSelf-organisation & entrepreneurship
At the school levelAt the school level Help teachers to grasp the essence of the Help teachers to grasp the essence of the developmental area(s)developmental area(s)
Help them to see the levels of competencesHelp them to see the levels of competences
Make accountable for ‘effort’ not for ‘outcome’Make accountable for ‘effort’ not for ‘outcome’are all developmental domains represented in children’s are all developmental domains represented in children’s activities?activities?is the level of involvolvement sufficient to expect deep is the level of involvolvement sufficient to expect deep level learning?level learning?
