13105354 Atlantis is Discovered Atlantis in Middle Danubian Depression Pannonian Basin a New Location of Atlantis Island

“Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression” Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)

The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008



ATLANTIS ISLAND IS DISCOVERED

Atlantis Island

Introduction



The location of Atlantis Island in relation with one of the palaeogeographic image of Pannonian Basin rely on important previous studies: 1. Studies of mythical palaeogeography published in 1991, in Bratislava (The XIIth International Congress of the Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences) 2. Studies of palaeogeography on the Panoniann Basin (2006 – The XVIIIth Congress of the Carpathian – Balkans Geological Association - Belgrade) 3. Studies of paleoclimat (Oslo, 2008 – The 33rd International Geological Congress – General contributions to climate change)

4. Bilateral Romanian - Hungarian cooperation (Geological Survey of Romania–Bucharest and MAFI-Budapest ) – correlations of the Quaternary deposits from the East edge of the Pannonian Basin



a. The myths of Atlantis reflects exclusive

European palaeogeographical

realities

Important considerations:




b. These are focused mainly on the actual Middle

Danube Depression




Late Quaternary Pannonian

Basin

d. This has been isolated over 10 My ago from the adjacent basins. The last possible

connection with the Dacic Basin (in the Middle Pontian ) was interrupted about 7 My ago.




e. The Pannonian Lake survived

during Quaternary almost until the

end of the Pleistocene,

namely until the end of the Paleolithic

f. The Iron Gates Gorge (s.l.) formation, respectively the interruption of the endorheic

character of the Pannonian Basin, can be connected to the moment of the Moon capture

by the Earth, about 39.000 years ago




g. This phenomenon can be correlated to the huge

water flow that marked, before the Great Flood,

the islands in the Northern part of the Aegean Sea

(Diodorus Siculus)


The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008Important considerations:

h. After this moment, in the

Pannonian Depression

survived a relict lake (the Relict

Pannonian Lake), whose

shore maintained till

the Great Flood (thus until about

9.541 + 2008 = 11.549 years

ago) around the + 100 m

elevation

Bratislava, 1991

Fruška Gora

Deliblat area



Fruška Gora

Deliblat areaThe Relict Pannonian

Lake


i. The Pannonian Relict Lake was characterized by the presence of two important islands. The first corresponded to the actual Hill Fruška Gora, and the second one was represented by Deliblat area.



Atlantis Island

Atlantic Sea

Atlantic Sea

Pillars of Heracles

j. The Atlantis Island (with Poseidon’s

residence) can be identified with the actual Deliblat are (with a NW – SE

orientation)




k. On this Island (composed at that time only by

Pleistocene deposits, respectively by loess) was

placed the mountain not very high and not very great from

Evenor’s island, mountain placed in the actual Dumacia summit area (today ~ 250 m).

Atlantis Island

Atlantic Sea

Atlantic Sea

Pillars of Heracles




l. The Atlantis “sunk” (from 11,549 years ago ), following a meteorites rain that triggered the Great Flood

(biblical Flood), was due to the great increase of the Pannonian

Lake level




l’. The Atlantis “sunk” (from 11,549 years ago ), following a meteorites rain that triggered the Great Flood (biblical

Flood), was due to the great increase of the Pannonian Lake level




m. This increase was accompanied

by huge quantities of

alluvial deposits (sands and muds)

accumulated especially in

some areas of the Relict Pannonian

Lake




n. One of the important

accumulation areas was represented by

the area of the Atlantis Island, in witch the actual

sand dunes represented a part of these delluvial

accumulations (alluvial deposits)


Legend:1 - Lakes and swamps; 2 - Holocene sands; 3 - Actual lakes Balaton and Neusiedl (Fertö); 4 - Land



o. The area in witch Poseidon would had built

his “fortress” could be placed in the SE of the

Atlantis Island




p. If the hydrotechnic works of the Atlantis Island represented a reality, these were dug in the loess deposits

(fact that seems to be credible)

Loess deposit near Dupljaja (Vojvodina,

Serbia)




r. More precisely, the centre of the Poseidon’s

settlement ( with the island having a circular shape) can be connected by the triangle

formed by the actual heights Čardak (159,1 m ), Keja Lahului (157 m), and

Crni vrh (189 m)




s. A more suitable placement implies the

area with the actual topographic name “Eronja”, placed

between the heights Čardak and Keja

Lahului

Eronja from Enorja (by rhotacism ) and Enorja

(Enoria) from (Ev) enor =

Evenor




t. The toponyms Deliblato (Big Mud) and Major Bara (Big Swamp) from the same area are in the favour of the proposed placement. Also Belgrade (White Town) and Biserica Alba (Bela Crkva – White Church) toponyms

suggest the colour of the Olympian Gods (white). This placement is also sustained by the Coronini toponym (with the hidden name of the Cronos )

Deliblat area




u. Pillars of Heracles reflect much subsequent geographical reality in comparison with the Atlantis Sea

and can be connected to the area of the actual rock Babacai, nearby Coronini village




u’. Pillars of Heracles

Babacai stone




Atlantis Sea

Vinča

Lepenski Vir

Tărtăria

Sarmisegetusa Regia

Turdaş

Herakles

Anina (Ion, the oldest man from Europe) ~ 40,000 years

Atlantis Island

Pillars of Heracles

v.The reconsideration of the archaeological discoveries from neighboring areas




w. Sarmisegetusa Regia – the closest sacred area of antiquity. The Dacian kingdom

(Burebista, Decebal), the closest imperial power of the antiquity




x. Nowadays, the Platon’s text (Critias) can be broken up in distinct passages referring to very different paleogeographical realities, repspectively: 1. The Pannonian Lake before the Moon capture2. The Europe beyond this lake ( Western Europe ) = real and whole continent3. The Atlantis Island 4.Fruška Gora Hill5. The Atlantis Sea – the Relict Pannonian Lake6. The Middle Danube Depression

Deliblato villageRelict of Atlantic Sea




ATLANTIS ISLAND IS DISCOVERED

Eronja

The Evenor’s Mountain

ABSTRACT of the paper “Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression” by Mircea Ţicleanu, Paul Constantin, Radu Nicolescu presented at November 10, 2008 (Session 3) of The 2nd International Conference “Atlantis Hypothesis: Searching for a Lost Land” Athens, Greece 2008

The attempts to identify the area that might correspond, undoubtfully, to the mythic land Atlantis, hadn’t succeeded so far, as they weren’t relied on the paleogeographic reality, very important for The Old World far history. These were connected to the long maintenance in the present Depression of Middle Danube, thus within the Pannonian Basin, of an endoreic region in which a huge lacustrian area survived: The Pannonian Lake. This was definitely isolated from the neighbored basins of the Central Paratethys about 7 m.y. ago and it maintained until prehistoric time, as an inner sea characterized mainly by the presence of an archipelagos in its Western part. Only after The Iron Gates Gorge shaping, probably during some cataclysms which affected the whole Earth, the old lake picture radically changed. In the South-Eastern part of the Pannonian Basin, a lake maintained for a long time. It was supplied mostly by the 4 main rivers of the Middle Danube Depression. The last huge catastrophe that struck this edenic humanity realm, about 11.600 years ago, was due to a meteorites rain that affected Terra, a well described rain from the biblical text (Apocalypse of John). It was concentrated upon the Western area of the Atlantic Ocean where a huge vapors mass appeared which turned towards East, and triggered The Great Flood (or Biblical Deluge) that could be better understood only in connection with the Pannonian area paleogeography. The same catastrophe led to the last paleogeographic picture of the Pannonian Basin, meaning a relict lake whose shore maintained for a long time at about +100 m height, and existed during the Early Holocene [Ţicleanu et al., 2006 - The XVIIIth Congress of the Carpathian-Balkans Geological Association, Belgrade]. Picturing a Pannonian Atlantis might easily solve some location problems, difficult to be solved so far, and could very well answer the numerous criteria proposed for a realistic search of this fascinating mythic land. Thus, the West Pannonian archipelago allowed the finding of an island to which the Atlants capital could be linked. The Pannonian Lake corresponded to the Atlantes navigable sea, placed “beyond” the “Pillars of Herakles”, that could be found only within the area of the Iron Gates gorge, as a few antic authors (i. e. Pindar) or actual ones (i. e. Densusianu), and as a lot of myths and toponyms connected to the mythic hero Hercule did. The sudden disappearance of the Pannonian Lake might explain the appearance of some fine, unconsolided sediments (mud) that isolated for a while the off-islands of the Pannonian Lake. The moment of the Atlantis “sunken” can be established together with the meteorites rain from about 9.541 B.C. (a much closer data to the one mentioned by Plato). The Atlantes civilization (which beyond the archipelago included as well areas from the Pannonian Lake shores, thus the total area was closed to the one estimated by Plato) developed in a mild climate, influenced by the Atlantis position in connection to a huge water mass and the presence of some important hydrothermal resources, known even nowadays inside the Pannonian Basin (nowadays there could be found the largest thermal lake in the world – the Héviz Lake, and about 1500 thermal springs as well).

This civilization was based on the presence of some important natural resources (forests, salt, gold, silver, copper etc) known even in the present in the Carpathians, which border the Pannonian Basin in the North, and in the East. This view might effectively solve not only the Atlantis location problem, but the connection to real geographic areas of some mythic paleogeographic data for which no viable solution was found so far, among there could be mentioned Thot Lake and Ha Lake (Egyptian myths), Ginnunga Gap, Audhumbla, Yggdrasil and Asgard (Scandinavian myths), Cronus Sea (that became “The Dead Sea”) and Okeanos (Greek myths), the Life Land and the Death Waters (Sumerian myths), Havila Lands, Cus Lands, and Asiria (in the Bible), Alybe (=Alybas) Lands (Homer) and Siriat (Egyptians). The mythic land Vanenheim (= the Land of Vans), whose name is kept by the actual “Panonia” could be distinguished of all. Such point of view was sustained by us even from 1991 [Ţicleanu et al., XIIth International Congress of the Prehistoric and Protohistoric Sciences, Bratislava]. The Pannonian Lake (“Atlantis Sea”) and the Atlantis Island disappearance following some successive catastrophes: floods, earthquakes, tsunami could led to the disappearance of the main material remains of Atlantis civilization described by Plato and considered by many Atlantologists as very important criteria in searching the Atlantis. The population saved after such events kept in memory both the Flood myths, and the Atlantis disappearance as well. Afterwards, these myths were brought in by the population spread in those areas. In addition, the old inhabitants of the Pannnonian space “exported” own toponyms of this primordial area in numerous regions where they settled on, after successive migrations. The relations between the Atlantes and the old Greeks could be easily explained in connection to the Pannonian area as well, by the present toponyms with Greek mythic resonance from the North-West area of the Apuseni (Western) Mountains. There had to be mentioned the “trend” to find a solution for the Atlantis problem according to the information, unjustified absoluted many times, offered by Plato in his writings, in the terms in which extremely precious data were comprised in other antic authors writings, among which Diodorus Siculus with his “Biblioteca Historica”, mainly from the traditions regarding the Amazons. One should not neglect that from the near close of this area there were some world priorities: “The Mesolithic Paradise” (Lepenski Vir – 9.000 BP), the oldest world known writing (Vinca, Tartaria – about 7.500 BP), the oldest ceramic tubes network for drinkable water (inside the area of the old Dacian capital from Sarmizegetusa Regia, in the South Carpathians - about 7.000 BP). In addition there had to be mentioned the Dacian sanctuary presence from Sarmizegetusa, a proof of a very developed civilization, placed within the central area already known as “The Old Europe”

Mircea ŢICLEANU, Paul CONSTANTIN, Radu NICOLESCU (Romania)

PROGRAM

November 10, 200809:00 Welcome

FYTIKAS M. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE09:10 The myth of Gaia, from Bronze age to modern scientific era

PAVLIDES S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE09:40 - 11:00 Session 1

09:40 Crete Thera Atlantis: Culture and Writing FACCHETTI G. Universita Grave dell’Insubria ITALY NEGRI M. IULM University, MILAN ITALY NOTTI E. IULM University MILAN ITALY

10:00 The story of Atlantis and Plato’s intentions PARISAKI T. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE

10:20 11500 years ago ? VIENI R. Independent Researcher ITALY10:40 World maps from the Stone Age? New rock drawings show unbelievable knowledge of prehistoric culturesGOERLITZ D. ILZ University Bonn GERMANY

11:20 - 13:20 Session 2 11:20 The strange and undocumented discoveries of Antarctica and South America

WEIHAUPT J. University of Colorado UNITED STATES PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE

11:40 Atlantis’ position, shape and dimensions SARANTITIS G. Independent Researcher GREECE

12:00 New palaeobotanical and paleoclimatical data from the fossil Quaternary flora in the caldera walls of the Santorini island

VELITZELOS E. University of Athens GREECE12:20 Skepticism on the geomorphological and archaeoseismological evolution of Troy plain and fault, based on new field data

PAVLIDES S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE CHATZIPETROS A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE MICHAILIDOU A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE SBORAS S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE SYRIDES G. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE VALKANIOTIS S. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE VOUVALIDIS K. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE ZERVOPOULOU A. Aristotle University of Thessaloniki GREECE TUTKUN S.Z. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY

ULUGERGELI E. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY KUUMLRCER A. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY EKINCI Y.L. Onsekiz Mart University TURKEY

November 10, 200811:20 - 13:20 Session 2

12:40 Copper and tin-bronze in the Bronze and Iron Ages in the Western Mediterranean: The Iberian Peninsula

ROVIRA S. Museo Arqueologico Nacional SPAIN13:00 An active Greek Bronze age trading centre in SE Sweden

MORNER N.A. Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics SWEDEN LIND H. Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics SWEDEN

14:40 - 16:20 Session 314:40 Late Quaternary Paleogeography of the Pannonian Basin, the Key to Locate the Atlantis in the Middle Danube Depression

TICLEANU M. Geological Institute of Romania ROMANIA CONSTANTIN P. Independent Researcher ROMANIA NICOLESCU R. Geological Institute of Romania ROMANIA

15:00 Atlantis in South Spain - a realistic hypothesis WICKBOLDT W. Independent Researcher GERMANY

15:20 Atlantis, the last heir of an old legacy RODRIGUEZ SANCHEZ J.J. Ayuntamiento de Madrid SPAIN

15:40 The Achaeans’ coming to Lamos’ kingdom in the Atlantic Ocean PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE

16:00 Flooding of the North Evia Gulf pre-historic lake and a possible meteorite impact in Late Pleistocene Early Holocene

SAKELLARIOU D. Hellenic Centre of Marine Research GREECE16:50 - 18:30 Session 4:

16:50 Atlantis: Lost Kingdom of the Andes ALLEN J. Independent Researcher UNITED KINGDOM

17:10 Atlantis in Hispaniola: further discussion SPEDICATO E. University of Bergamo ITALY

17:30 Examining the relationship between Ogygia island and Atlantis GEORGIANNIS V. Technological Education Institute of Piraeus GREECE

17:50 Atlantis in Middle America TEELUCK J. Independent Researcher CANADA

18:10 Rethinking Atlantis: Three events that shaped the legend KONTARATOS A. Independent Researcher GREECE


November 11, 200809:00 - 11:00 Session 5

09:00 A focus on the geologic sciences related to Atlantis-Bakhu: Can a paradigm shift solve the mystery? WELLS G. Wells Research UNITED STATES09:20 Plato’s Atlantis story is his humorous legacy in the form of an ironical brainteaser SCHWEITZER E. Independent Researcher GERMANY09:40 Testing Plato’s statement of prehistoric catastrophes in Greece, at Rharion field and in the Eleusis gulf STAMOU A. Eleusinan Studies Center “Daira” GREECE10:00 The four main questions of the great logical myth of Atlantis MITROPETROU E. University of Patras GREECE10:20 Denudation of Atlantis and its resemblance to the mythology of Dwarka - a geomythological analysis KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM10:40 Circumstantial Evidence for Plato’s Island Atlantis in the Souss-Massa-Draa Region of today’s South Morocco HUEBNER M. Independent Researcher GERMANY

11:20 - 13:20 Session 6 11:20 Plato’s “atlantida nesos” as the island of Meroe GHEMBAZA T. Independent Researcher FRANCE11:40 The truth status of Plato’s Atlantic tale BERGMAN J. Independent Researcher SWEDEN12:00 Evidence for a Large Neolithic Settlement in a Caldera-Like Geomorphologic Structure in South-West Morocco HUEBNER M. Independent Researcher GERMANY HUEBNER S. Independent Researcher GERMANY12:20 The constitutional and economic structure of Atlantis BALOGLOU C. Hellenic Telecommunications Organization S.A. GREECE12:40 Plato’s justification to call the Atlantic panpelagos and not ocean PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE COSSEYAN C. School Advisor GREECE13:00 That’s why Atlantis must be located within Mediterranean Sea MONTE L. Indipendent Researcher ITALY

14:40 - 16:00 Session 7 14:40 Modeling of tsunami generated during the Minoan eruption of Thera and evaluation of nearshore wave amplitudes and run-up along coastal areas of the southern Aegean Sea. McCOY F. University of Hawaii GREECE NOVIKOVA T. National Observatory of Athens GREECE PAPADOPOULOS G. National Observatory of Athens GREECE


15:00 The search for lost Atlantis in the marine region westwards of Santorini island- Program Atlantis 2003 - Preliminary results MITROUSIS A. Hellenic Center for Marine Research GREECE15:20 King Italos = King Atlas of Atlantis? FRANKE T. Independent Researcher GERMANY15:40 Minoan tsunami deposits on the coast of Crete and their relation to the Santorini eruption SIGURDSSON H. University of Rhode Island UNITED STATES CAREY S. University of Rhode Island UNITED STATES ALEXOPOULOS G. Third Ephorate of Antiquities GREECE VAKIRTZI S. Akrotiri Archeological Institute GREECE VOUGIOUKALAKIS G. Institute of Geology and Mineral Exploration GREECE

November 11, 200816:00 - 16:40 Session 8: Posters

01. A hidden calendar in the Atlantis story PLIAKOS A. Pliakou Language Schools GREECE 02. A new map for the lost Atlantis - The sinking of Atlantis happened, at least, in two destructions PASCHOS T. Independent Researcher GREECE 03. Archaeoastronomy, and the Proto-Greek pre-cartographic knowledge of the world

GREGORY G. International Centre for Earth Sciences ITALY PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE GREGORY L. International Centre for Earth Sciences ITALY

04. Archaeological excavations at Indus valley sites correlate with description of Atlantis continent and Atlantis city

KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM 05. Are medieval planispheres representing late Pleistocene Antarctica?

BARBIERO F. Independed Researcher ITALY 06. Aristotle?s notes regarding the location of Erytheia- a second look at the Myth

KATSAROS T. University of Aegean GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE COSSEYAN C. School Advisor GREECE

07. Atlantis in Antarctica BARBIERO F. Independed Researcher ITALY

08. Atlantis mythology and it’s correlation to Vedic mythology KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM


09. Atlantis on Lesvos, Greece ANAGNOSTOPOULOS P. Independent Researcher GREECE 10. Crop and shamanic plants on both sides of the Atlantic support the theory of an ancient trans-Atlantic exchange GOERLITZ D. ILZ University Bonn GERMANY 11. Evidence of presentation of Dholavira site - matching the criterias laid down by the Atlantis Hypothesis: searching for a lost land conference 2005 KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM 12. First Images of mythic Atlantis from satellites COSCI M. Independent Researcher ITALY 13. Heracles’ Pillars SARANTITIS G. Independent Researcher GREECE 14. Land and marine calendrical systems of prehiostoric Crete. REGORIADES P. Independent Researcher GREECE 15. Neolithic and Early Bronze Age technological innovations BASSIAKOS Y. NCSR Demokritos GREECE 16. Nicotine and cocaine in man made and nature made Egyptian mummies PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE 17. Odysseus’ transatlantic “imaginary” craft SIDERIS M. Independent Reasearcher GREECE 18. On the reversal of earth rotation axis SPEDICATO E. University of Bergamo ITALY 19. Post Atlantis migration of people to Europe - Is evidence of migration of Indus people indicative of migration to Europe KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM 20. Testing Plato’s geomorphological statements of Achean’s country land CHALARI A. University of Patras GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE FERENTINOS S. University of Patras GREECE GEGARA M. University of Patras GREECE PAPATHEODOROU G. Univeristy of Patras GREECE 21. The Achaeans coming in Africa and the island of Pharos CHALARI A. University of Patras GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE PAPATHEODOROU G. Univeristy of Patras GREECE FERENTINOS S. University of Patras GREECE 22. The Atlantis research charter. A defined position in the colourful world of Atlantis research FRANKE T. Independent Researcher GERMANY HOFMANN U. Independent Researcher GERMANY

SCHOPPE C. Independent Researcher GERMANY SCHOPPE S. Independent Researcher GERMANY

23. The Egyptian origin of Plato’s Atlantic tale BERGMAN J. Independent Researcher SWEDEN

24. The Plato’s unfinished trilogy (Timaeus, Critias, Hermocrates), mythological traditions and archaeological data. A cross-curricular approach.

TSAKOPOULOS F. Panteion University of Social & Political Sciences of Athens GREECE

25. The Sekmet-Phaeton catastrophe, in 1300 B.C. COMBES M.A. Independed Rerearher FRANCE 26. The Thera Volcano at the Transition between the Cycladic Thrustbelt and the Streched Continental Crust of the Cretan Sea

PAPOULIA J. Hellenic Centre for Marine Research GREECE MAKRIS J. University of Hamburg & GeoPro GmbH GREECE

27. The coastal cross-flow Cephalonia’s paradox: A lost Atlantic attractor? STERGIOPOULOS V. The School of Pedagogical and Technological Ed. GREECE STERGIOPOULOU A. The School of Pedagogical and Technological Ed.GREECE STERGIOPOULOS G. The School of Pedagogical and Technological Ed.GREECE

28. The descriptions of TIMAIOS and KRITIAS, from the point of view of a researcher and not a Reader.

SARANTITIS G. Independent Researcher GREECE 29. The event 10,000 years ago

COMBES M.A. Independed Rerearher FRANCE 30. The importance of Herodotus’ Histories for the Atlantis problem

FRANKE T. Independent Researcher GERMANY 31. The mythical Thule to be located in Iceland?

GIANAZZA G. Independent Researcher ITALY STUCCHI M. Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcan ITALY

32. The true dimensions of Libya, Asia and Atlantis SARANTITIS G. Independent Researcher GREECE

33. Topographical analysis of Atlantis description correlates with South Asian location KOAK Y. Hinchingrook Hospital UNITED KINGDOM 34. Where was Plato’s Atlantic Sea located? - Comparism of different mythological traditions

BREMER D. Independent Researcher GERMANY

16:40 - 18:00 Session 9 - Closing Remarks KONTARATOS A. Independent Researcher GREECE PAPAMARINOPOULOS S. University of Patras GREECE

Documents

13105354 Atlantis is Discovered Atlantis in Middle Danubian Depression Pannonian Basin a New Location of Atlantis Island